 All those in favor of the agenda as printed please raise your right hand. We have an agenda. It's okay let's count. The next there are no comments from the chair this evening but the next item is the minutes from the august 20th meeting in attendance were myself, Kevin, Kate, Tom, and Rob who are eligible to vote. Do I have a motion for the minutes or any addendums that people wish to make? Yes Kate. I would like to make a spelling correction on page two. Charlie Hawn is H-O-H-N instead of H-A-H-N just to make sure we've identified him correctly. Other than that they look very good. And I'll note that it was spelled I think correctly further up the page. That's correct. Yeah we missed one. No not two Mr. Holmes that evening. All right so with that correction do I have a motion to approve the minutes? Motion by Kevin. Do I have a second? Second by Rob. All those in favor of the minutes that are eligible to vote please raise your right hand. The minutes are approved with the addendum. That brings us to the first item on our agenda of business this evening and that is one granite street. If the applicants for one granite street are here please come forward. Can you state your name for the record please? Peter Merrill. So Mr. Merrill I'm going to actually put you under oaths because we're going to take testimony so if you raise your right hand the other right um you solemnly swear or affirm that the evidence and testimony you're about to give under the for the matter under consideration shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury. I know. Very good so uh let's start out we're actually going to have uh Meredith our zoning administrator give us a brief overview of what we're looking at tonight and then uh Peter I'll have you give some testimony in support of your application. Okay so this is a request for minor site plan and conditional use approval for one new art studio in the expansion of a current of a current art studio in the building which um is one granite street the national clothespin factory building um and this the space right now is former manufacturing space that's what it's classed as um and the big issue for the board is the authorizing the conditional use that's why this has come before you um art studio is not a listed use in the regulations so you'll see in your packet that I have include included a determination that art studio is closest to light manufacturing in this instance um and then you go from that to the conditional use criteria which are outlined on starting on the bottom of page 13 in the staff report um so that's the big issue um and then there's some questions about parking bicycle storage and landscaping but the big one is the conditional use. So Peter why don't you tell us about this? Why don't you tell us about this application? Um well I have two potential tenants that have seen a second floor which was formerly manufacturing um and they're looking for an art studio um it's about 900 feet um faces granite street with six windows that way and a couple windows facing southwest. They just kind of like the ambience of the old building um we're not trying to change anything we're not changing windows um it's got old hardwood flooring it's typically what you see in a manufacturing building we've got to do some retrofits um insulation in the walls which is non-existent and we may change a heating system for that area that's about it. And just to be clear uh this art studio would this be any type of show or retail space? No it's it's it's for two artists and they're not going to have the public in in any way. Where is the parking going to be for these spaces? Meredith figured it out. Well how much existing parking is available that's not otherwise committed to either existing tenants? Well there's a lot of combinations we have shared parking um some uses of the building are only there for you know 15 hours a week um I rent spaces to the hunger mountain core which can go away when we really need parking for eight hours a day for a couple of people. I mean there's a lot of a lot of choices. We're in particular though I'm I'm I'm just and maybe Meredith can help you. Do you want to copy of the parking plan that you gave me? Yeah um yeah so one of the spots would probably be either um number 12 or number 13 and the other one would probably be maybe 20 or number one. And those parking spaces aren't otherwise spoken for by uh tenants? One of them is a rental for hunger mountain co-op um like I said that that can go away um um the other parking is it's more or less shared parking the 1th 1918 1716 that is shared parking for the movement center on the third floor um like I said during normal hours you know seven to five o'clock at night um they probably only there for 15 or 20 hours a week. I mean my concern is I just want to make sure that we're not double counting parking spaces right you know you're not I know you rent to Claire construction that you're not giving them spaces that you're not counting. Yeah let me explain that actually one of the potential artist is a member of the movement center so she would be she would be using one of those spots when she is at the third floor she's one of the teachers on the third floor. Right um but I mean the problem is is that we can't just look at who the specific tenant is going to be because that tenant may fall through and have another artist friend of hers who's not part of the movement center right right would need that that parking space so you're identifying parking space one and parking space 12 as the likely right and then and then and then you know to satisfy you we could get rid of two hunger mountain co-op spots. How many spaces merit is over you require again? So based on my calculations from the regulations as to how much is required based on the uses the intensity of uses that I identified um they only are required to have nine off-street parking spaces. That's total for the building. Total for the building based on um the two two two of the studios not having any customer traffic the Clark woodworking shop and third floor art studio having minimal customer traffic and the movement center having high visitor turnover and then there's also a commercial office showroom with limited customer traffic because these aren't places where you've got people coming in out non-stop like Alan Lumber. Right. And so that works out to nine off-street parking spaces required. Now the the parking spaces one and then 16 through 20 we can't count those as off-street because they're actually in the public right away so that leaves them with I think I what do I say 13? Yeah that leaves them with 13 off-street parking spaces how they actually divvy them up how they're actually divvied up is really kind of up to them. Okay. So I mean I'm I guess I'm less concerned about the idea of renting out these parking spaces with no one's using them but for purposes of zoning making sure that we have these minimum numbers as required. Right. I mean you obviously want to provide parking spaces to your tenants because that's how you retain your tenants right if they need the parking spaces but at the same time we were not suggesting that you need to assign a parking space and not use it or it's just that for purposes of zoning as long as a tenant finds it. Right. They would have the the right. Okay let's so you're anticipating these would just be these two artists coming no commercial foot traffic no I mean they would it would be essentially almost more like an office that they would come in their painting or artwork and then depart. Right no no shows I mean that's what they told me that was the question really. Well that's why I just I want to understand I think in part because one of the first questions we have to besides the parking we need to know the traffic and so based on your representation that this is not a retail or commercial space that these are really at most two tenants at most two car trips per tenant right per day so that we can understand that vehicle flow and I simply wanted to get you on the record to represent that as part of it. Right. The next issue I wanted to ask about unless someone has another question about traffic or parking some horses don't need to be hit anymore. Bicycle access what kind of bicycle access does this site have? Don't have a formal bicycle access people have they come on a bike on occasion we don't have a designated building for them they put them into an entry way that we have on not not stone cutters wayside not Granite Street side but opposite number 13 where number 13 is there's a fire tower there that accesses the three floors there's a space in there adjacent to the stairs where people have foot bikes I mean we don't have anything formal but people have brought bikes before so that would be inside there's several places outside where railings metal railings or bike could be connected to that so it would be secure you know we that's what we have we didn't have any zoning to tell us to put bike access in just people had bikes they came and they used the space and so do your tenants currently use some of your tenants currently have bicycles no I mean I'm just going back 10 years you know on occasion you know you'd see somebody with a bike and it would be tied up to a railing it wasn't in a way it wasn't in a parking spot but you're also saying that you've permitted tenants to bring in bikes inside it wasn't an issue I mean we weren't told to have a bike place no and we are now and to be clear you know part of this is the new it's not required now however the reason I'm asking and and maybe pushing a little bit is this is in close proximity to the bike path right there is a massive bike path extension project going on right certainly one of the things that the city has tried to encourage is bicycle traffic and access and so I just I I mean I'm I'm satisfied that what your representation is people have used bikes there's places for people to park bikes there's no formal bike rack but there also hasn't been a lot of bike traffic either that's right so the next issue is um is planting and this is a particular question could you give a description of what your site looks like particularly my impression driving by is that there's a great deal of paved area and there's not a lot of green or brown space there's there's a few weeds that have sprung up between the paved space and the building I don't know you know if we're going to be counting no but Meredith noticed the other day I think you talked about one-story office building you know that's adjacent to the river you know this is there's a lawn out there I mean we've been mowing that lawn for 40 years it's about it could be four or five hundred square feet it's like 10 by 60 years old it's just there um now I don't know if that counts as green space and as vegetation on the bank down to the river that's probably there's probably a thousand feet down there there's all kinds of trees lilac bushes going there I know they're on the end of the building and you can't it's not like having shrubs all the way around your building but it's on the property but at least you know if we look at your property from and you're referring when you say this green area you're referring to this area between the office building and really the river no there's there's or is there there's about 10 feet toward the river before you start going down the bank this I didn't draw this picture here I think I got this from the city so they're they're kind of showing the river closer where in fact there's like a sandbar down on the river now so we gained another 25 feet out into the river um but actually mowed space right there there's five or six hundred feet that we mowed that's flat before the river bank starts to go over the river sure but there's a picture here yeah so Peter and there does appear to be there does appear to be trees in in from the property between the building and the Winooski river you do have trees there there's lilac bushes um right on the edge where it starts heading down which is a river bank yeah but you know there's an average of probably eight feet from the building before the river bank starts flat area and it's like 70 feet long so the picture that's the space right here these are lilac bushes right here that are probably kind of overgrown into the lawn a little bit yeah those are massive those are massive lilacs um but this this green area here is that the is is that the only green area on your property or there are other I mean apart from the weeds that are coming out between the in part where we're just to give you a sense about where I'm coming from so you can understand I think in director answers you know under the new zoning bylaws we're required to look at the landscaping and there are certain goals that are articulated in the in the zoning bylaws to effectuate the landscaping plans for all properties um and in part that that deals with the planting but I think if we make findings on this it requires us to have an understanding about what what we're screening or what we're seeking to screen or not screen or incapable of screening um and so it's really important to understand you know what is the property look like and so we have a good sense that between the Winooski river and your buildings there's this line of sort of called volunteers the you know wild growth trees and they haven't been planted or necessarily maintained um and then you have a strip of lawn right are there other green spaces um between I don't think it shows you but Alan lumber company and I just kind of share um a space between Alan lumber company's building and the end of our office we have our office right by the bridge and it extends down to a garage on the other random and this is like 70 feet long there's a space that's probably four foot wide by the length of the width of the building which is 25 feet um the water falls off Alan lumber company's roof into that area and there's they used to be poison ivy in there but we got rid of that but I mean it would go in there and that space whatever you put in there would have to be water tolerant huh it'd have to be water tolerant if their runoff comes out for their I presume right whatever is in there is water tolerant right um so so that's that space here between the office building and Alan lumber if I'm you know granite streets here right into the space and then but I just want to make sure that I'm I have the right understanding which is that for the rest of the property around the factory right building in front of the office between Alan lumber and the parking area and in front of the building itself on either street we're really talking about pavement pavement right um and that's long standing pavement that's not something you just freshly created right um okay so I think that's helpful um and is it what kind of landscaping are you proposing with this not any I mean Meredith Meredith put it pretty bluntly lead you know are we gonna have to remove pavement I mean we're pretty much parked up against the building all the way around I don't foresee an easy solution to that you know you've got a third of an acre of land there and a lot of it's building and parking and you know there's no there's really no wiggle room any other questions all right um so then I think it makes sense at this point unless to go through some of the conditional use criteria and standards in particular yeah I'm let's talk about the uh capacity of the community facilities and utilities uh this section requires us to make findings that the applicant shall demonstrate that the burden proposed that the demonstrate that the proposed development shall not cause a disproportionate or unreasonable burden on the city's ability to provide community facilities and utilities including one local schools two police fire protection ambulance service three street infrastructure and maintenance for park and recreation facilities five water supply sewage disposal and stormwater systems and infrastructure and I think um unless the board feels strongly that the local schools the police fire protection ambulance service the street infrastructure and maintenance and the park and recreation facility are really not affected by this application um I did want to confirm the water supply for this space is that city water and sewer city water and sewer okay and are you adding any capacity through this uh change of use maybe one sink a cleanup sink okay into the existing infrastructure of the the building right um so I'm I'm not seeing any other impacts unless anybody wants to explore that moving then on the next issue that we have is traffic the applicant has to demonstrate that the proposed development will not have an undue adverse impact or effect on traffic in the area including the volume type and timing of traffic generated that the traffic generated proposed development shall not unreasonably disproportionately contribute to a reduced level of service affected streets and that reasonable measures have been taken to minimize and mitigate the amount of vehicular traffic generated by proposed development I think the evidence here shows that it's a fairly de minimis if not a precisely de minimis impact on this what is the space being used for currently are we talking about about is one used for another or is this empty space no um this was formerly our closed-spin assembly area and um the packaging of closed-spins and the assembly of closed-spin the last 12 years we've been making um we get into injection molding about 15 years ago because we had to have plastic closed-spins but more recently we've been making medical parts for diagnostic equipment so that's injection molding we had three machines in there now there's only one and that one's going out of that space so kind of winding down our injection molding operation so how many how many people are we talking about that would run these machines are working in this space that you're now shifting to a different probably one full-time employee okay so really when we talk about this and I just I think it's important to understand that when we're talking about the impact of traffic not only is it de minimis but really it's not two people it's one person because you're replacing you already have one person coming and this person's going to essentially fill their space right um okay unless there's any questions on traffic um I'll move on to 3303 that's the character of the neighborhood standards and that requires the application she'll demonstrate the proposed development she'll not have an undue adverse effect upon the character of the neighborhood so this is the industrial section of that riverfront the granite you're right next to the the granite sheds and right next to alan lumber and nothing about this in fact I you know I understand that this is we're classifying this as light manufacturing but um this in in in effect is probably going to be more closer to like an office type use because testimony is that you have an artist coming in I explained this to the artist about how they're being put in this box that says light manufacturing they didn't care what you call that I would think they'd be pleased about that you know um so the second criteria is architectural compatibility new development shall be architecturally compatible with the neighborhood this is not applicable because you're not talking about changing any of the out exterior features this is just different people in the same space you might do I think your testimony was there were some interior changes yeah possible it's going to be new wiring and the two walls of this space for insulated with what they used to call beaver board it was just a couple of spaces a couple of very thin layers of almost like cardboard to create two air spaces in the wall we've taken all of that out and we're going to we're going to insulate it the next criteria is yards lot coverage and landscaping this says that new development shall maintain a sense of open space that's appropriate to the neighborhood by balancing the size and buildings footprint with a mass of the structure and size a lot again this is not applicable because you're not changing anything about the building this is just a switch in the internal use uh the final one is performance standards uh and this allows the board to impose conditions deemed necessary to further the purpose of chapter 3 30 building performance standards about noise glare odors vibration electrical or radio interference waste storage needs particulate matter or airborne solids or flammable toxic or hazardous substances or waste and I think so I read in your application but I just want to make sure we were clear for the record these are not these artists use largely non-toxic materials right um and how will waste be disposed of I think most everything is water based but I mean um you know if trash and such do you have dumpsters on site we know okay so this would just go into the normal trash that's existing right um and then I mean we there's nothing inherent as far as the art creation of art that would necessarily trigger a noise or glare odor vibration electrical radio interference no they're not they're not a particular type of artist that uses some large electronic device or HVAC system inside oh they've they've been asked already uh all right is there anything else anybody wishes to ask so I just want to clarify so they're they're uh essentially painters is that what you're saying yes like painting on canvas that that's what it's a large large canvas okay any other questions if not I'll entertain either a motion or discussion I think we have to make a discussion before motion about the landscaping issue what's the pleasure of the board let me just suggest that I I think this is a similar type of situation to the 27 school street which is that we've received testimony that any requirement that was based strictly on the perimeter of the building would be inconsistent with the lot and certainly the current conditions I'm just one board member and I'm just gonna you know let anyone else express but it doesn't seem like this use triggers the need for any type of landscaping change nor does there seem to be a need for that type of shift in landscaping given that it's an industrial site and has limited capacity on its best day and I would agree with that Mr. Chair and I mean we have to keep in mind that this is this is in effect a reduction in the intensity of use and we want to Mr. Chair within that increase of one occupant I don't necessarily agree that it is a de-intensification of the use though I agree that it's as far as traffic and things like that though it's painters instead of machines from what from what is allowed I mean clearly it was used as a from what is allowed right I thought you meant from what is currently taking place there which is which is also allowed I would given the need to balance the reasonableness of landscaping requests with the clear purpose of the landscaping and screening provision I would value and appreciate discussing this in deliberative session as we did with the previous example last week I am also just one board member but that is that would be helpful to me and I guess I would agree on thinking about deliberative session for this in part because the these new landscaping provisions are tricky as they apply to these pre-existing uses and I agree with your statement that that you know we need to be reasonable and take into account the particular lot but but as a board we're also creating precedent so I think it makes sense for us to talk about how we want to talk about this because other applicants will you know will come forward and we want to make sure that we're consistent is that a consensus of board so I'll enter well let me ask is there any more information that we require from the applicant at this time or do we feel comfortable does the board each board member feel comfortable voting on both a minor site plan and conditional use review yes okay so what I would accept is a motion to close the evidence and move into a deliberative session so moved to discuss I think the landscaping requirements and ultimately the the approval of the application because I don't think we can make a motion to approve the application until we've resolved that landscaping issue yeah so we will close the record move into deliver session presumably discuss the landscaping and out of that then approve or disapprove the minor site plan and conditional use review is that consistent with everyone's I just for the record I will I will vote to go into deliver the session but I there's one board member right and they don't see that we need to do something okay duly noted so there's a motion to go into deliver session and close the evidence by Deb do I have a second I'll second that second by Rob all those in any further discussion hearing none all those in favor of going into deliver session closing the record please very right hand thank you very much Peter we should issue a decision shortly we're just going to discuss this and Meredith will be in touch yes thank you thank you procedure we typically do liberative session at the very end for all for any and all um we do it in the middle we can do it in the middle we we have no we can take it up at the end if we wish you certainly given the scope of the next project it would make sense to keep that moving forward if the next project is here yeah yeah that's the theme of the evening even I guess with the school I was expecting a you know large crowd of children so if you'll state your names for the record and then I'll swear you in before you give test Paul Gauvere engineering ventures Andrew La Rosa director of facilities for the Montpelier Roxbury school district great if you raise your right hand you solemnly swear affirm that the evidence and testimony you're about to give for the matter under consideration shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury great um why don't we have uh Meredith why don't you give a just overview and focus us on what we're doing because it's a minor notwithstanding the very uh voluminous application materials this is a minor site plan review and we are scope is somewhat limited so it's a minor site plan review and request for a waiver of the footprint maximum it's extensive revisions to the union elementary school playground including some renovations to the entrance on the playground signed for ADA accessibility and that's where the footprint waiver comes in um the major issues um you've got the footprint waiver and then the other really big one is the development on steep slopes so other than the footprint waiver the only reason this is coming to drb is because of the steep slopes because we can't kind of planning approve that um so those are your two big issues there's also some minor things noted in the staff report in red about height of some of the accessory structures that we didn't have confirmation of some issues with dumpster location bicycle storage um landscaping maintenance and an issue with the sign wall um but really the big issues are steep slopes and footprint waiver so so paul or andrew i don't know which one of you want to take the lead on giving us a presentation let me talk about what we're doing there uh talk about the intent well why don't i talk you through the overall project and i'll highlight the the issues as we run across them and and then we can go circle back to the more specific uh so the union elementary school project which has been in the works for some years um consists i would say first and foremost uh a lot of it is to do with stormwater uh and stormwater control uh which paul will will address later basically we're rehabilitating the uh the upper playground what we refer to as the upper upper playground providing handicap accessibility up to that playground and the play structures and then in the lower courtyard the inner or to what is the lower or inner courtyard uh dealing with some stormwater issues as well as getting appropriate uh play equipment for that age group that's 3k and first that we're using that area primarily so we're we're getting appropriately sized uh play equipment we're also doing bank stabilization along the back retaining wall and again stormwater treatment areas the vestibule will be about five six hundred square foot handicap accessible vestibule which will be on the uh northeast corner uh that's one of the existing issues with regards to the slope issues questions uh we have the existing slope in this area which is below the 30 degree uh that we're basically just sliding this direction it's the same slope that's already there but we're widening it currently the uh fire link runs here without bringing the fire link closer to the building so we have to ship that bank over there we're reducing slope over in this area one of the areas of concern was over here where we're actually adjusting the slope if anyone knows union it's a pretty steep bank over there near this area where it is becoming i'll let paul speak to this verity of the slope change uh there's actually stormwater treatment that is actually taking place in that area the other question was uh footprint some of the slope concerns the slope we also i think in the packet we had a diagram that had all these different areas of concern in this area where we are affecting the slope it is for maintenance and improvement of the retaining wall so it's it's this primarily this area and then this change here so go ahead oh no it's just i think one thing i would point out is you know we look at the slopes and look at this area right here which looks like uh we're making it quite a bit steeper related these are one foot contours just space within existing two footers so really spacing here and the slope is essentially the same in this area so that might be a little misleading when you look at that yeah i think as and you said i think one of the primary reasons that this project came about is because there's some serious drainage issues and just too much of a mess for the kids to use uh spring this is like a 2016 project in our office so i've had a chance to see it for a while it's you can see why it's spring that's really really needs help so what we've got going on uh other things and you mentioned that it's correct that we in order to accommodate the best we'll be pushing this back back a little bit we're pretty similar here um and we do want to improve the local field which is uh it's really kind of a dust bowl or mud one of the other heading on the season so with this um we have storm water treatment here which is a gravel wetland treatment system tended to treat basically treats a good portion of the fireland and some of the walkways here areas here we have a fire retention area the rain garden is currently we talked about this actually it's pretty small it's in its modest it treats some of sidewalks right around that area and then we have another rain garden or sorry another gravel wetland in this area and if you're familiar with the gravel wetlands it's a no it's kind of a horizontal filter is the way i think about it so it's a high performing treatment system uh it doesn't have a lot of it doesn't require a lot of elevation difference which is kind of makes it kind of a go to uh like a unh data gives it a really high performance uh it removes a phosphorus sediment so for this this scenario we're really limited elevation at these points discharge points it's a good option for us so how how does that work with the horizontal does the water flow through it on the sort of a continuing on a slope or so coming to the top of the system and then it goes through perforated risers so it goes through a perforated rod into the gravel media which is open gravel media and it flows horizontally through that and then gets picked up at the other end by a perforated pipe and then discharges so we have the opportunity to kind of control the rate and then the you know because it's a long slope path and it's a long slope slope path you get a lot of settling of particles and some adhesion to the media so it's a good management practice especially for sites like this that have some constraints and and where does it discharge into does it discharge into a stormwater drain or we're going back to basically the whole site right now just discharges to the stream drainage system of the points here and we're still having that we're just doing with with more control and treatment ahead of that general the site is the drains on the site is pretty similar except for the fact that we're introducing treatment and we're also stabilized in some of these areas as you mentioned the retaining wall work the existing is a concrete crib kind of an interesting style it's like lincoln locks but it's concrete that's our geotechnical engineer so it's stable so we're trying to reuse that we can't break the school budget any more than we have but it is stable so we're just going to clean that up on the sides we're adding a bit of gabion wall this is like this is I think less than four feet gabion is a wire basket filled with stones this and some gabion and then in the dumpster area trash area we're bringing in sheet pile wall so this we have a great differential like 7.2 is the highest in the corner 7.2 feet we're moving into that bank a little bit so we're either going to temporarily sheet pile it and then put some of the retaining wall system in or do permanent sheet pile so we're doing permanent sheet pile here given the use and the location what is a sheet pile steel sheet pile so it's steel sheets are kind of a w-shaped corrugated it's kind of the inside of a purple box that kind of shape and they lock together and they drive them down in this case the sheet piles rely on the buried portion to restrain the earth above it as opposed to like the gabions are just by weight the weight holds it holds it back is that sheet pile what you what you see at construction sites when they're digging gabion but then they're often removed after they can right right in that case yeah so often we do that in this case you know we wouldn't necessarily prefer to use that throughout the site for the aesthetics but you know it's just it's steel and being in the trash area which is kind of a good use and it saves us digging more of the soil soils are expensive the irritives in urban site and so really less disturbance in and less work on that is better a clarification point on the gravel wetland does that sit on the surface or is it a structure that is being the ground right so there's a depression so that'll hold some of the you probably it's probably in here somewhere sheet 3.1 so there is a depression that holds the water until it filters through and then there's a layering so there's a top top is a growth media so it's a planting media which is kind of a really has to be kind of a sandy top soil mix you know raining for kind of a low phosphorus mix something else still grow plants and then there's a trope of course which is a layer of stone that's fine enough to kind of keep those materials separate keep it out of the lower material and then beneath that is the gravel it's like an open graded gravel that that makes sense i was picturing um gravel rectangles around elementary school students and just how irresistible that would be well that's one of the reasons that we went with the other reason we went with the gravel wetland is that satisfies my concern standing water we don't really want standing water in this kind of location so it would be very temporary it becomes in it was a social more than an engineering question so thank you if you go to la 301 there's more of a appealing image of what it's going to be versus an engineering no i could be offended by that nobody wants to look at the engineering thank you thank you it's the image with the parsley on it okay great thank you go back i know scope stability was a big question here but really i think the areas we're working on the exception possibly at the above this wall which has some instability already everything else is that we're we're trying to rectify some current instability there's a spot in the bank here where there's a little bit of slope wash out i think that's because of the just water moving underneath the existing material so we have under drain system going around here to kind of collect that subsurface yeah there's there's photos in the packet in between talking about okay got an existing bee that looks like a wash out behind the basketball hoop right that that's what yes that's an interesting one because it was a slope repaired down a while back and it's a layer so it's a more porous material on top of the tight soils underneath and i was really puzzling on that one until i got out there when it was wet and the i think the water is going through the top running along the bottom on that top material top material and it's washing out the sand from underneath and then the grass is falling and so the intended kind of we have to pick that up pick that water up with the under drain and then kind of staplock down here i may or if i do have some information from the landscape architect who's like a couple of your answers to your couple of your questions we can all right i think it may make sense to go let's start with the um and i think and i'll be happy or not so happy to be corrected but i think the easier one which is the expansion of the building footprint and the footprint waiver um the current building footprint i think the applicant has indicated something like 31 000 square feet um and it's well in excess of the 3000 square foot maximum in this district so we're already above um and you're seeking to increase by 439 feet square feet roughly so about 1.4 percent of the total building envelope you're adding so my understanding is zoning by-laws as the staff has helped out is that there's no limit in the waiver that the board may grant for building footprints but we do have to follow the process so the question is the board must make findings that um the waiver if authorized shall not alter the essential character of the neighborhood or district in which the property is located substantially or permanently impair the lawful use or development of adjacent property reduce access to renewable energy resources or be detrimental to the public welfare and the proposed lands development is beneficial or necessary for continued reasonable use of property so what i'd like to take testimony on is you know the purpose of this vestibule extension that's being built so currently uh the only handicap accessible entrance to the building is down is down here uh and currently the elevator is over here next summer hopefully in the spring we're actually going to be installing a new elevator here so the idea is that we provide handicap accessibility right off the sidewalk as quickly as possible without tearing up the historic front of the building and getting it right to where the handicap accessible elevator elevator would be okay and that and that's really the whole entire purpose of vestibule is for ADA accessibility yeah pretty much um there's some thought that it will be used you know as foul weather enclosure before people but fundamentally now it's an anti-camp accessible accessibility i was gonna say if it's if it's a foul weather site it it doesn't seem all that large that's why i say i don't think it's going to be used as one all that much maybe maybe the after-school program or something of that nature but most of the kids are picked up out on little mystery anyway so and is this being i mean obviously i can see why the school might be interested in making the site more friendly for ADA river people and with with disabilities but is this being driven by any type of federal or state mandate i don't believe anyone has told us we had to do it i think it was being good citizens okay um but i mean but i have not heard that that we've been okay so they're forced to do it now it was part of the overall just making the building more accessible modernizing the building modernizing and making it more accessible and and the reason to put it i mean the current handicap accessible entrance that's at the back yeah um is will that change will that still be handicap accessible uh it will yeah okay but this is just something that's going to be that much closer to the um elevator yep and currently if somebody accesses that handicap existing handicap entrance um even if the elevator was relocated if i'm remembering correctly about union elementary on the first floor they still have to go up a ramp down the hallway and the spirit of ADA and i'll leave it at that is you would be telling a student you have to go back by the entrance that everybody else is using to go use the other entrance okay and that because where the vestibule is going is one of the main entrances into the building yeah and especially and with the vestibule will students will will other students it won't be simply for disabled students it would be for all students correct most most of the students unless they're down at the unless they're down here at lunch which a lot of them are um are let out from lunch to go to recess or to go to recess into lunch uh everybody else will head out the straightest beeline they can to the playground which is this door so they'll largely use that entrance and exit as they did before absolutely um and will there be any limitation as a result of this additional vestibule as far as anything that's being done now that won't be able to be done because of this addition no are you losing i know that there's a storage barn currently where the no that's been moved to union we're actually as part of the vestibule project there is a small little storage area so you move to main street middle school okay um permitted and everything um uh there is going to be a small outdoor storage area that a snow blower can be stored in kind of thing but not it's just it's a relatively small room and that's that's what was stored in that barn before was a snow blower yeah yeah that and probably some toys and it's been cleaned out for a little long anybody have any other questions about the vestibule great um why don't we move on and we'll we'll come back to whether we need to grant the grant of the waiver the footprint maximum so a couple of just sort of into the weed points um on your on your diagram um c 3.0 which details the sheet pile wall what kind of height are we talking about and first of all maybe let's just orient everyone where this um where the sheet pile wall is going is that that's what we were talking about before over by dumpsters right that's right here okay right in this area and how high of a wall are we talking about highest is 7.2 feet or slightly less over here uh the drops off it it is hard to read in the small prints but on the plane it calls out the top and bottom of the wall so if you were looking at approval it it's no and not that not that it's easy to find sorry but it is like it's there as a basis if you want to have it as part of the approval so it's it's seven feet seven feet tall at its maximum yeah and is that a uniform height throughout the wall or does it uh it's essentially seven feet across the back side and then i think it tapers down to where i can't read it on this can i tapers down on the side the next issue um is the swing set um climbing net structures yep how big are these yeah let me i can give this to marita when we're down here but uh so i got this from the landscape architect um the explorer dome climbers 13 foot four the swings are eight foot four and the nest which is the structure in the back is 11 foot four from the deck elevation and 17 foot one from the lowest elevation so that's from the lowest grade adjacent to the top of the roof and so that the demolition and i've i've seen that there's a lot of demolition that's occurred already um but let's just be exact as to what is what has or is being demolished on this site um before construction commences on the new structures so all the all the current play equipment has been removed other than a few miscellaneous long kind of ground things but all the existing swing sets jungle gyms parallel bars whatever you'd call them i've all been removed the city has taken them i believe they're being stored up at hubbard for now for reuse in the coming years okay uh and that includes both the kindergarten first grade playground in the back as well as the sort of upper grade playground off a hubbard but no no part of the actual building itself and as you said the storage barn has been moved as well and is that that's not returning no um so let's talk about the steep slopes and the if i understand correctly and i i'm just going to restate this to make sure than i'm understanding and correct me if i'm wrong along the back of the building right there yes are you changing any grading of the steep slopes or just simply stabilizing a little bit but grades are the same here same thing here we're just replacing the section that's really deteriorated on this end of the gabion which is the stone filled baskets so that's not changing either on this side really the only spot we're really making great differences slightly in here but really primarily at that cheap out wall we're pulling back to create some space for the trash area to free up the fire lane um and and that that change in the steep slope is strictly to enlarge the fire lane is that just wall stabilization just wall stabilization um and then the other areas uh around on the uh the i always call it the upper playground um well either of those so where's where are we changing the steep slopes uh slope here is just getting pushed back that's that's really not a critical slope um here uh we're it's we're generally doing a small fill but it's essentially the same a little bit it's a little very working i think it's right in this area it's very small um here again we're pretty close to matching grades here or extending fill out but again it's more of a stabilization process and footing these seat walls that's all part of kind of a way of stabilizing this and stepping things along so you're you're terracing some of that steep slope for those so you're moving the amphitheater up there right the function is out here no the intent is not to make anything steeper but it really is kind of we're hitting areas or working on areas that are already a little bit muddy and surface unstable um in this area it's being reworked but these are essentially the same slopes and this is not the steepest part it is pretty steep but it's not the steepest um and again it looks looks steeper because we've got one for content we're showing next to two so it looks like it's more going on than there is there okay and about how much of square foot of land are we talking about with the disturbing the steep slopes do you still have that diagram yeah it's not it's not completely clear in here on how much of it is 30 percent greater which is the really big issue so this is the plus of this and this you know I mean technically some of the walls technically are 30 percent greater this is that big area yeah that's primarily so this is actually getting a reduction right but what is the the slope there right now oh I see what you're saying you know what I mean it's disturbance of the slopes under the regs it doesn't say one way or the other yeah it doesn't matter what you do with it you're doing something with it right so I would suggest that's probably close to the 30 percent yeah it's parts of it okay that that bank is pretty steep and close to that sorry we're we're looking at c.0 okay and when we're talking about the part that is likely 30 degrees or 30 percent rather we're looking at this part with number 41 nope it's not that better it's actually slightly flatter plus minus 29 so technically technically the way the regs are written even the retaining walls because technically they are greater than 30 percent there is no exemption in the regs for man-made retaining walls which is something that's getting fixed um so slope includes human-made structures and naturally occurring yeah the human-made structures to hold back the bank when you're taking those down and then putting up new ones technically that still falls within the you're not supposed to do it which is one of the things and reducing slope doesn't same thing with the reduction of slope yeah you're quote-unquote disturbing them so it's not very practical the way it's written right now you can't see all those things until you start using them yep and some of us weren't here when this was being when the regs were being drafted so um there's a lot of site work and sounds like it will lead to some long-term safety improvements as well as erosion and stormwater and all of that and some fun things to play on when a big project like this is undertaken what are the monitoring processes after completion to make sure that it takes and settles in and does everything that it's supposed to do there are a lot of a lot going on in this area i'm curious to know how that is monitored there are requirements for the again this is at least the hard the hard surfaces i mean will be the hard surfaces but you're thinking primarily i think about the landscape elements and how the grass grows in how there is a requirement in the plans that the landscape contractors is responsible for 90-day maintenance following instructions plants have a one-year replacement warranty i came to the lacy architect that's what i'm asking about then the ongoing stability of the structures once the slope is modified i mean the plantings are i know can be part of that but making sure that the walls are sturdy and remain sturdy i'm just very curious um as a resident and a parent um how how that's how you keep an eye on that maybe well i'm gonna jump in and say the walls are going to be secure because they were designed by an engineer with regards to the ongoing maintenance i think that the district and the community has seen what happens when you let a property go into disrepair and it wasn't all that long ago that there was under draining put under the playground and it's sort of forgotten about um so i think that after the community makes this kind of investment in this playground that we will the community will not be shy about letting us know when they see something that doesn't look right and we're not going to be shy about maintaining it and correcting it whether it's grass that's getting beat up from too many little kids footprints will change a pattern or whether it's a piece of soil that's that's sloughing because of some sort of underpinning that wasn't correctly as far as staying up designed by an engineer is important and i agree that physics is to be trusted when done correctly but i guess my real question is is is their stress test is there a way to make sure that the walls were indeed not only designed correctly but built correctly um i'm amazed that in montpellier we've got so many steep slopes and houses doing what they're doing they've done it for a hundred years that's great i'm still curious to know just how how you ensure that it is sturdy over time is there an annual inspection um after you've built a major wall like this what do you do i'm assuming to go ahead well yeah i mean there's the wall we build this is again you know designed by engineers and there'll be geotechnical engineers designing that wall um we'll be oversight some oversight during construction periodic oversight so we'll get built for plan and then i think the ongoing maintenance is really going to fall on on the school department there'll be a there'll be a one-year inspection before the the warranty period for lack of a better term is we will all get together the engineers and the contractor and we'll take another walk around what you say before that one year is up to say okay is everything functioning the way it's supposed to i presume that this function is the same way that an engineer works say like with a building when you remove a retaining wall and put in like an i-beam or something that there's calculations behind it studies of the soil um and so you know there's some thought and of course you're a professional licensed engineer i understand that it's designed with consideration for those things but i think you get the gist of my question that there's the one-year inspection is there the five-year inspection the 10-year inspection in addition to the maintenance which we know will be important and it sounds like maybe that's not a matter of practice in the way that i'm thinking of it right now it's it's good practice and absolutely as the facilities director for the school district something that we probably should get written down okay make it part of our daily routine with all our projects in all buildings thanks for mentioning that it's not within our jurisdiction to say and check it every five years but i express it as a community member looking at the whole of the project so how much of this and i'm looking at c-point zero is driven by um erosion control concerns i would say i mean probably most of it i don't and of course i didn't bring that key with me which which one are you looking at i'm looking at c-point zero which has the color yeah which i should have grabbed which you're welcome to take mine if that will help the way the sheet is laid out that the crosshatch so really it's it's it's only the the area close to the fire lane that you're pulling back to expand the fire lane for public safety purposes that are is not dealing with erosion control and stabilization okay um and meredith dpw's were reviewed the proposed changes and grades and yeah project did they have any any further comments than other what your packet indicated that they seem to approve no this was when it comes to the slopes they were in approval of all the work i know that for erosion stormwater issues which are all part of this package there's going to be some continuing discussion about the kickball field which is the square to the northeast about how to deal with that drainage area but other than that they were good with everything else that's being proposed yeah the comments from from dpw were that there is an existing drainage system i just found one other piece of that just before this meeting um so it's there it was just been buried all this time um and um you know we the debate is whether we reuse it or not i think one of the considerations is having a metal grid drainage grates in the play area which is kind of a knee buster so i think you know we had planned on kind of putting a kind of more of a subsurface system and and i think we're going to stick with that yeah i think so tom tom liked the new design of bringing it across over the top and dropping it down into those drains awesome and and just so i understand i'm going through some of the staff comments sheet c point two point zero c point c two point zero erosion control plan yeah that is and we do have approval from the state for that under the construction general permit and for that matter i don't know if you had them there's um we have two operational stormwater permits for the site uh both issued and current i can give you copies or you probably want pdfs whichever you can give me copies tonight or you can send me the pdfs for us to throw in either one is fine i have them with me then there was a picture and i just again i'm moving moving forward unless anybody had any further questions about erosion or the steep slopes the sign wall that you're planning on installing where is that or the wall with i think some carvings on it that is currently has been removed from the project if it's going to be as you probably know there's been a lot of cross savings that's that's gone but it would be on this one correct that's where yes the section if if there's a donor or a volunteer that wants to put on it would be in this area i would just caution the city learned that the hard way that who you put as a donor may not resonate well with the community i think we learned that yeah you know with the the granite park that was put out front and a number of different businesses put donated money for it put their name on it there was a public uproar and they had to build granite facing to cover those those names out there i don't think i i think you know like i i think we learned that one and i i think there's a thorough voter i don't recall who it was but we absolutely i love the diversion i had donors on it yeah no it's inspirational messages but yeah but so is the wall still being built and there's just nothing on it okay and that may be a later project at a later time and absolutely okay so it's nothing that we have to review at this time or consider all right i'm going to move into the site plan standards and the first issue that's come up is the question of bike access i know there's existing there were existing bike racks will there be bike racks incorporated currently this is not the plan for but this area here is going to be caves and we're going to be have bike racks there whether we bring back currently we have i believe there's three of them again that was a cost savings we had very nice sculptural ones that were set into concrete for right now we're going to keep this area paved and bring and i believe that there are there's a group that's applying for a grant from the state for bike racks so the plan okay um and is it going to be just in that one location um as it stands now yeah because the rest of it is grass and um and hilly so that's kind of the spot the kids can ride right up to it okay um let's talk about the landscaping and what are the what are the plans for plantings not as extensive as they were four months ago but still quite extensive uh i say that the the la la 201 that's the material that's materials 201 is the materials the hard skate 300 here we go there we go yeah uh the 400s the la 400s key itself the planting key is on 402 okay so what are we talking about for sort of a total oh here we go with the with the tree planting key on 402 um so there's quantities on the key okay so it looks like so yeah it's a series of shade trees on the back and then with interspace within the uh the upper playground area um some perennial plantings along the edges again i'm not i'm not the tree guy necessarily so we we will freely admit that we don't have the one shrug per five linear feet for the thousand linear feet that we have but we're hoping that we can count the hillside and its vegetation the trees and plants that are up there towards that that that remember relative to the function of being a playground so as opposed to a forest where we lose children um right uh so i'm understanding from i'm counting 22 new trees and then looks as if you're keeping about 12 for a total of 34 yep and then and then all the trees on the hillside all the trees on the hillside as well as all the shrubs on the hillside and it looks like i'm just going from the staff report which i think is called from your report that there's 20 existing shrubs and you plan to plant about 111 additional shrubbery uh yeah probably i think that that's counting that counting the grasses and i honestly don't know you know what count everything i pulled that from the application materials i didn't count everything 32 no that comes from the shrub key it looks like it looks like there's a like 13 uh cornice arctic fire 22 so a couple of dogwood some sweet fern witch hazel sumac elderberry silky willa looks good to me grasses could be construed as shrubbery as far as meeting the purpose of the landscaping to enhance the appearance of the built environment create well create shade no i provide a landscape buffer screen land uses the grasses accomplish all those things they do but there's actually definitions in the rags about what there's different categories of shrubs and woody stems the shrub categories yeah sorry all right i i wish it would make everything so much easier but um i believe we we have the discussion during the the the nymph application money 500 okay so essentially we're looking do we have a total count as to if we were to go with the five per linear square feet of the uh well i say i think i calculated as close to a thousand linear feet up building yeah so it would is required 200 shrubs and 34 trees is what's required under the regulations what we're what is being proposed right now is 34 trees and 131 shrubs being planted plus you factor in everything that's already on the hillside so you know they're they haven't gone out and counted every single one but my my estimation is that we're at or near 200 probably more and there's a standard condition that we usually put for landscaping that if the plant dies that you replace it with within a year reasonable amount of time you'd have no problem with that condition if you plan a new tree i would say that that would certainly be the intent but i can't speak for the school district and the taxpayers but absolutely i mean the intent is that we're going to maintain this um and um absolutely we're going to maintain the best of our abilities if you're going to put that condition maybe i suggest that you allow to put a different species in case one doesn't survive for a reason i i mean i i think we give a certain amount of flexibility to the applicant as to the nature of that but there's a requirement that you maintain the shrub that you know this is particularly important that you know if there's a dead boxwood it doesn't just sit there as a dead boxwood for year after year yeah absolutely for the safety of the children we're not going to allow trees that are dead to lay there and rot and we're not going to let things get overgrown yeah absolutely good um although my son is willing to use a saw um some good reasons for that rule uh okay so let's move on unless there's any further questions about landscaping uh there is one question about the dumpster location and any fencing that you're proposing or not proposing um about the dumpster to well the location is selected in the way of being installed it's really it's really hidden on these sides all right if there was a question of screening and up there um what do you feel about that i would i would rather well i'm not sure it's up to me but uh the idea is that the dumpsters now that are kind of sitting right out there are now going to be pushed back into the into the corner um you know unless it's a requirement i'd rather have the custodial staff give them the direction that nothing should be leaning against the dumpster that the dumpster should be clean and you should rake it out around it every now and again and it's turn don't turn it into a dumpster turn it into a blue box that's sitting there and it's clean around it um so um barring an actual requirement to put a fence up there around it um rarely do they they may look good the first day but they're not going to be as people go in there and smash to get snow banks trying to get trash out at two o'clock in the morning and right things get broken and um well it does 3205 d does talk about does talk about the idea of outdoor storage um and the keeping any materials goods equipment unregistered vehicles or other items not for sale in an unroofed area for more than 24 hours may be allowed in accessory use in accordance with following um and particularly outdoor storage area shall be fenced in and screened from view from the street and surrounding properties so um that's at least marita that's what you're you're suggesting would cover the um the dumpsters and and i mean it's it's a part of it was also not being clear exactly you know i i know you have the squares years you know from from owner however it is in that spot can those be seen from the road easily from there because i'm not sure exactly what we've got for the hillside there well are they effectively already screened mostly screened if you drew a line from dumpsters very little of it a very small area where you can see it from on the road but it's not to say none but it's just fenced in and screened that's where i run the problem with 3205 but you know it's not clear from here if the fencing is to act solely as the screening or if it's fenced in to you know keep people out of it otherwise otherwise and just say screened well let me ask this question currently you have like a big blue dumpster recycling recycling and a traffic okay and then there are the compost totes are those still there um well i just started the district on july 1st so i'm not a hunter and my son has been out of the school for a few years so i don't recall where the the totes are i suspect they're i just i i recall uh having dropped my daughter off for years and throwing my banana peels away that the compost was located on the corner of the building closest to school street right there they were there were some there had been there i don't know yeah and have those those been moved effectively because i in in some case i wanted to find the universe yeah so so right now the compost totes are going going closer to the cafeteria which makes sense um and so we're really just talking about the two big blue dumpsters which currently sit right about here and we're going to tuck them back here okay so they're really tucked back into a corner right um that's within the sheep house they're kind of tucked into the hillside and then the the sheep house is above that and the hillside's above it so they are screened pretty well on all sides except possibly coming down uh the street right there where you're just pointing out well and and and let me ask is there going to be any type of screening uh trees or such planted or i mean there's existing trees in that that side yard right so it's not as if there's a straight visual shot and what you're suggesting is it's even tucked in because it is visually apparent and it's you know it's it's i think one of the issues of the fencing and screening as i understood it was to give this these kind of outdoor things a place which is so that there is a dumpster area as opposed to a general dumpster area that gets moved around you know and i think i've seen those dumpsters move around quite a bit um and so what you're suggesting is they will have a home i tucked in corner and nook there um and it was screened from the street by the trees and by the side of the hill they have a home now right well they have a movable home they kind of have a pad right there yeah they're just sort of and it's going to be the same thing but moved backwards but tucked back in behind behind tucked back now into a corner that we're creating that's seven feet tall on the backside of them that is more defined than what's currently there um the language of the zoning ordinance that it must be fenced in and screened from from view from the street sounds like a fence requirement to me i'm sorry to say um but the plane the plane reading of it is sounding that way i mentioned that in part because i'm having a hard time visualizing the tucking of dumpsters and whether and how that will be effective but if i have a question to that end if there is there a practical way to have fencing um without making it difficult to get in and out because i think i think there's also that sort of test rational test right can it function where it is um and have some fencing from that that road i would i would say that involve correct me if i wrong if we were required to put a fence a functional fence around there i think we'd have to push that retaining wall back this area would have to go back this way and over this way to get afford us a little bit of maneuvering space for the dumpsters themselves and we need to keep this area clear for for the fireland so we may if that was a requirement we would end up having to push this sort of nook further into the hillside taking that seven foot wall to make me get 10 feet wall i mean it's pretty steep back there so it's not a it's certainly technically doable but then we're really creating a nook in the hillside for these which is yeah i could see that being problematic and that retaining wall remind me um it's your what you're doing is bolstering something that's already there and so you'd be constructing something new this area no there's actually no retaining wall oh i see so you're putting in that right by pushing things yeah so the point of this was to get the dumpsters kind of out of the out of the view basically and and tucked them in the corner which is partial screening um i think Andrew's right if we push back further um we'll start building a taller taller wall and also i think then we start getting a little tighter on movements to get the get the trash truck in there so because we're kind of just we're he's able to he can sweep in there right now with the way it is as you pull that back further it gets a little more awkward yeah he needs that when they do this i suspect they're going to have to kind of get in there a little bit jostle around a little bit further is there are there fire lane considerations in that corridor absolutely yeah so you have a limitation as to far how far out that can come i'm guessing paul if that's pretty much the minimum right there yeah the uh the direction from the fire chief and the assistant fire chief was basically don't make it any worse and which we've actually made it slightly better i think we're at 16 that's where the the if you put the fence in i think you you'd be you'd be really kind of tightly constraining that whereas there's a little flexibility moving the dumpsters around and that within that rectangle was shown and a practical and i'll speak freely here in a practical sense of that is that is a tight corner when we start plowing in there and no matter what we put in there it's going to get damaged for me i'd rather push the custodial staff to have a nice clean dumpster area so you can see the the dumpster is is it from the the northern part from the road or can you also see it from uh from uh from the hubbard street as well from up here hubbard yeah uh no i don't think yeah i don't maybe from being up on the elevation when looking down on the wood the amount of trees in there i don't think you'd see it now i don't think you'd see it here you wouldn't see it coming on school street right right that neighbor wouldn't you wouldn't see it there no you turn it head this way yeah coming down this way once you've got past these trees and bio retention area are you going to catch the glimpse of it absolutely okay just like that porch that portion when you're driving by would be the the only time you really would would be able to see the dumpsters okay that would be a big improvement over where they are now right now right now they kind of sit almost facing up like that and now they're going to be down here so if we read as it doesn't have to be fence and it was a desire to do screening i mean i it's good you could put a couple shrubs in here when you kind of break that line off maybe that at least you get a little advantage out of that unless that's tolerable i think i'd rather see shrubs it fills the choice yeah offenses and you're putting shrubs in the gravel wetland anyway right yeah there are plants and that shrubs around it any other questions about our dumpsters wanted to go over a couple of other things what about the lighting for this project is there any proposed lighting currently there is not we're gonna we're gonna work with what is existing we are putting conduit in there are five i believe five proposed lamp posts for cost-saving measures they've been they've been eliminated if they're put back into the project we suspect that about probably january we're going to be given a sort of go no go on a lot of items some of the play equipment in the inter-court yard lighting changing maybe some of the the fire lane that's along the east change it back to concrete that'll all be stuff that the contractor i believe will be telling us probably somewhere around the new year we'll be saying okay you got any extra money and where do you want to spend it at that point if those those features come back in we'll we'll bring it in and share with mayor that she can tell us what we need to do next after that um go ahead i mean if if we do it it would be a full cutoff kind of picture it won't be big globes right but this time you're not proposing any other new lighting um okay uh what's the timeline on this project construction given your blessing uh we've talked to chris lumber he's okay with to start on the vestibule uh we are our site contractor is meeting with our contractor for the vestibule to start laying out how we site layout with regards to continuing to have access to the kitchen and all that they're ready to go uh to start the vestibule next week eci our site contractor is hoping to take advantage of the columbus day long weekend when the kids aren't on campus for four days to actually start doing some of the heavy lifting especially close to the building uh and i think the idea is that they want to get most of the heavy lifting done before the ground freezes such that when they come back in the spring it's a more matter of uh the lack of better term finishes sidewalks roads plantings and the only deadline at this point that i personally care about is opening day of school next spring or next fall we're going to keep it closed all the way through let the let the plants and grasses take hold and uh it's that august 29th or whatever it is okay um and so part of the part of your timeline is definitely affected by how soon or not soon this approval comes out um yeah is that really for the vestibule or would site plan as well i think we'd all like to know that we're comfortable moving forward with the entire project um i think this is our last hurdle well that's that's actually the question i i wanted to ask i'm glad you provide the answer to it which is that this is this is the last hurdle or there are other approvals that i don't believe so i mean we've got our storm water chris is okay the vestibule um this is it i've asked that question several times to everybody um this is as i understand this is the last one i think we do when we do connect with the storm water we have to meet with tom and i think there's another approval there but i think that's nitty gritty stuff okay does anyone have any other questions all right um actually i've been curious are you taking into account all of the sledding down the hill because that's all i could think about with this hope is that you know all the yeah i remember the kids on trays i think i can only imagine what damage that does i don't know well that was a consideration not okay but the sledding that's there's expectation that that would still occur here um i've been talked out of doing uh a stone like collection swell here yes mark for that reason good for the i guess in case your lunch tray disappeared yeah yeah thank you okay anything further what's the pleasure of the board do you want to again deliver a session or do you wish to make a motion now into deliberative uh okay uh and close the evidence close the evidence motion by tom to close the evidence and move this into deliver a session do i have second second by kate any further discussion hearing none all those in favor of closing the evidence and moving in a deliberative session please raise your right hand thank you all very much thank you guys very thorough presentation thank you i think let's go come on a permit that weren't in the application package yeah okay i think since i've alluded to those those comments no no yeah two operational permits here and then this is the landscape okay awesome thank you so much thank you for your help on guiding us through this process getting us what we asked for the last item tonight do uh so let me just make that announcement and then i'll take a motion to adjourn into deliberative session um the only other business is that our next regular meeting is monday september 17th 2018 anyway have any other new business they wish to raise otherwise i'll take a motion to adjourn into a deliberate session motion by kevin second second second by deb any further discussion hearing none all those in favor please raise your right hand we are adjourned