 Yeah, it's a fun exercise. How many different colors can Allison turn her face? Folding okay, not that one There if I turn it to normal daylight, it looks fine Okay enough of that enough of these craziness Okay, come on now it just changed again, I think the two screens are changing independently I Think that's what's wrong. Oh I see Tesla feet over there. I didn't see those before Sawyer was down here with me until I got up and went over to the desk and As soon as I sat down at the desk, he just got up and went upstairs. He's like, oh, you're doing your boring show I thought it was gonna be fun, huh? He's happy to sit next to me on the couch while I'm prepping but as soon as I'm over here, he's bored She's a 15 bucks what I do with 15 bucks. What are you talking about? Sorry, I'm just trying to decide what your card to get I have to get a 1060 because the two set 1070 is too pricey for me. How much is the 1070 these days? It's a 400 around for you can get about 390 if you look well, and then what's the price difference on the 1060 then well 1060 is around 202 50 Yeah Swing yeah. Oh, no, I'm just looking between two variations of the 1060 Do I get the overclock version for extra $15 with a higher memory clock speed and Plus GPU speed Yes Yes, you do Get it all Roger get it all Sounds like a Pokemon game We gotta buy them all all the video cards And that's like that's like there are people like that There are and they are either very wealthy or eating rum in every night or both True. What was it? What was the one royal that used to eat a lot of TV dinners? No, what was that? Where he was he was pretty famous for being very spend-thrift How you stay rich so you save the moneys by not spending it You can't have money you don't have That first thing You know I mean it goes right up there with you got to spend money to make money But then you hit a point where no matter how hard you work you Don't make more money because the taxes and you lose all interest. Well, no, that's the whole point is that? the whole the whole thing with progressive progressive tax rates And it's that you encourage people up to a point Except, you know unless you strike it rich or something and then you try to like hold on to all of it, but I Mean really some people just enjoy doing some aspects that you think of well Why do you need so much money whatever but they actually just like doing that style of work? I'm sure they could do it for a nonprofit We talked about this a lot when we watched our track is like what's your motivation? Yeah, you know I think I'll go jump, you know beam down to that planet on the transporter that isn't actually working right now Have my have your Adam's scattered. Well, the thing I never understood is they have all these occupations on the Federation Surely there must be a deficit somewhere where people just don't find the job rewarding, but it needs to be done Yeah, thank you like how do you get how do you get custodians like to clean up on the space City of thinking you're sitting in this amazing Starship and your only job is to really just sweep the floors Maybe you find the clean floor really pleasing You know, there's jobs that we kind of suffer through because we know it leads to better things will ideally to better things My favorite was what was the I forget which I was it James worthy I think was on one episode of Star Trek and the captain at the end just gives him a shuttlecraft And I'm just picturing his expenses that month going. Yeah, I gave away a shuttlecraft. There's yay. Yeah, just keep it It's paid for say how expensive is that like they never they never really talk money, but it sounds expensive because it's just replicate all the parts It's not that expensive But if you have dilithium crystals, you got everything that's all you need I think crystals aren't a power source though. They used to source of the engine which then powers everything man There's a matter antimatter reaction that goes through the dilithium crystals which focuses the reaction Oh, I guess you need any matter to you're right and then you need both the crystals and the antimatter But the replicators rely you need to have that inert material floating around you just can't make you can have any any inert material I don't think that mattered. I think they're I don't know according to the guide They needed specific stuff for the food like you just can't just take a rock You had a certain you had to have a certain amount of elements. You're right. Yes carbon. You could not have carbon Nine-to-five Mac and the Verge reporting that Apple is adopting the ultra accessory connector Which is what you usually see on cameras, but they're not going to implement it as a port So if you see this don't get scared. It's meant to allow Companies who make accessories particularly headphones to be compatible with both lightning and USB-C Oh It's good though. Did you just have that? No, just read that a little too complicated. I just saw it just the second Yeah Ultra all right. We're ready. We're ready Daily Tech news show is powered by you the audience to find out more head daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Monday, February 6th 2017 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today my co-host Allison Sheridan is back. How's it going Allison? It's going great in this cold and wet and rainy up cold being defined as 57 degrees So I got a fire going here cold by California standards not by anywhere else north of us standards Even someplace in the south of us. Yeah, it's unusually rainy here in Los Angeles So Allison and I are sort of dealing with the weird phenomenon of water droplets falling from the sky But we are we also have a phenomenon of the FCC just tearing up all of its its regulations as we have an administration change We're gonna talk about that in a little bit as well Just a note here South Korea's government issued its own findings on the note 7 agreeing with Samsung on the cause So no controversy there. They say yeah, Samsung's independent investigation found the same thing that ours did And South Korea announced more frequent inspections and safety tests for battery manufacturers not a big surprise there either now Here are some more top stories NASA aircraft engineer Mark Moore published a white paper back in 2010 about electric aircraft That could take off and land like helicopters, but be smaller and quieter It's another page in the long story to research into vertical takeoff and landing vehicles or V tall That goes all the way back to the Ryan X 13 vertiget back in 1957 that the technology itself is not new But perfecting it has been elusive Moor's research however caught the eye of Google co-founder Larry Page and he started and financed Z arrow and Kitty Hawk two different companies developing V tall technology now The reason I went through all that setup is that Mark Moore has now left his 30-year job at NASA to become director of engineering for aviation at Uber He'll work on the flying car project called uber elevate if you don't remember uber announced that back in October Back then uber said it didn't want to actually build V talls, but work to make it possible to do so So there's all of the the practical problems the cost of parts the governmental regulations that all need to be worked through and Mr. Moore mark more will work with manufacturers and other stakeholders to explore use cases as part of the uber elevate Projects so a lot going on here Allison, but but if I could sum it up Really really smart engineer who's made some great progress on V tall aircraft helping uber figure out how to bring the world flying cars Well, I think this has so many fun pieces to it So V tall like you said started a long time ago And my memories of V tall were always with like the Harrier av8b was the Royal Air Force had them And these were were jets that had A single thruster in the center and now they eventually separated out into four thrusters But they were very close to the center of the fuselage and so they flipped upside down a lot They were really unstable So it's like the the men they men would fly the Harrier because you had a 30% chance or whatever of dying But now that you they started to do it more in propeller based systems like the Osprey We see them down in San Diego all the time out of Camp Pendleton. They use two propellers really far apart So if you think about if you were to walk on a on a tightrope for example Would you rather do it with your arms really far apart or would you like them close to your body? Well, you know, you'd fall over if they were close to your body I'll follow over either way But if I had to choose yeah, I want to you'd still have your arms out as you fell But this is a long way of saying that with the advancements that they've come into those now You can say okay Maybe this could become a practical use for a self-driving car because we figured out how to do it like with quad copters Right, we've got four propellers far apart that are providing the thrust So they're not as terrifying as they are in my memories of the way they used to be I like all the pieces of who's in this NASA and they got uber all these people working on this stuff This is this crazy. And the other thing about this is don't forget. We talked not too long ago about uber contracting with Daimler to bring Automatic autonomous Mercedes to the uber fleet but not necessarily using the uber technology the uber Self-driving technology and a lot of folks are still confused why they would do that But this is another example of uber saying we don't really need to make things We want to be the platform. We want to be the operating system We want to help people pay to get from one place to another So we're going to do what needs to be done to encourage this system to happen because back in October What uber described was a system where you would have particular Places where you could get the flying cars and you'd have to take an uber to get to them So there was a transfer involved, but as long as ubers making money off of each part of those journeys They don't care who makes the things they just want the technology to exist and for it to be affordable enough to be used Yeah, that's an interesting way to go to keep enabling these technologies around where you want to be able to make money This one's kind of a little on the moonshot side, right? Yeah Well, I mean it sounds like it to me, but they're saying one to three years They should have this technology workable. So and 48 years after that the FAA will agree to it, right? Exactly. I mean that seems really aggressive But but getting the FAA approval and all that that is part of what uber wants uber elevate to do They they want to say like let's get some smart people talking to the government. How do we expedite this? How do we make it safe? How do we make it work? Yeah, in a country where we're not allowed to have self-driving cars I don't want to be pessimistic, but unlike my viewpoints on VR. I think this will actually go somewhere someday And actually autonomous car regulations have proceeded much more progressively than the say Quadcopters your UAV regulations. So yeah, when you get the FAA involved things do tend to take a little longer Yeah, yeah, yeah All right. Well in preparation for Francis presidential election on April 23rd First draft news is launching a collaborative fact-checking effort called cross-check on February 27th Google News Lab is a founding partner providing training and tools like Google Trends. In addition 17 media organizations are also involved and Facebook will provide some dedicated tools for monitoring social content and help explain the verification process while promoting cross-check to its users Users of cross-check can submit stories for review and ask questions Yeah, so this is an interesting thing Facebook also doing what it did here in the United States where it's launched its own verification program where they'll put badges where you can link out to different fact-checking organizations just French fact-checking organizations in this case But I like this idea that there is a cross-platform effort saying let's get everybody on board to help folks understand The news and they've got 17 media organizations including the the big French newspapers and even places like BuzzFeed are involved Yeah, I would you say that this is a a nice smaller test case of this concept It's not even that small Yeah, I'm being a little facetious there. Yeah But but yeah, I mean this is honestly, it's the second test case, right? The the first was the United States election in November and a lot of people Discovered things that they want to implement now and so this is the next chance to go Okay, taking what we learned on the ground on the fly in that election Where we have an election with some extreme parties I know people are probably not necessarily following the French election if they're not French But you have one of the main candidates under an investigation for ethics problems Which is boosting two independent candidates one of a nationalist a national front candidate the other sort of an independent right-leaning Candidate and those two candidates are right now thought to be the most likely to make it into the second round They have two rounds of elections So there is a lot of hard campaigning going on in this election and the only reason I mentioned all of that is it makes It more difficult and more challenging for these newspapers and these news Organizations to keep track of all of the different messages and verify sources and all of that sort of thing Yeah, I what I love about what you're describing is I know about this because I listen to the Philias Club with Patrick Beja where he's been explaining what's going on in their political environment and it has been really interesting to learn How could these things from Brexit and then from the United States election now? What do you do going forward to try to help things to stabilize into where we know what we're reading and and I hope this works I do too because I really like the idea of Independent consortiums that include the firepower of Google and Facebook versus a lot of a lot of the rhetoric in January was about get Facebook to fix things and and that's that's putting too much responsibility and too much power in one company's hands Yeah, there's already too much power in that company's hands. Yeah JP Morgan Chase Institute, which is the research arm of JP Morgan Chase released details of a study into the gig Economy so jobs like Uber and Lyft and services like Airbnb What they found is monthly earnings on what they call labor platforms. That's your ride hailing platforms Your uber's your lifts that monthly earnings on labor platforms peaked in 2014 in June 2014 to be specific the share of US adults participating in what JP Morgan Chase called capital sharing services So your Airbnb's declined from the previous year Retention is also bad 52% of people working on labor platforms quit within a year and 56% of those who participated in capital platforms like Airbnb left within 12 months One reason for these declines may be that six years of job growth in the US has finally caused fewer people To need to use uber or Lyft or even Airbnb to fill the gap between jobs Yeah, I was fascinated by this I mean two and a half years ago that that's when that peak now That would also include things like those little services task rabbit people who bring you bring you food Any of those kinds of apps that are going on and those I thought those were on a high growth curve But Steve and I have done an incredibly scientific study in that every time we get into uber or Lyft We ask the driver how long have you been driving and I don't think we've heard the word year yet Not even a year. Wow. Yeah, it's almost always something four months three months six months. I think we heard in eight once so But they always go. Oh, yeah, I love it. It's amazing. It's so good and then and they're specific about it They don't say I love it cuz like I make a pile of money. It'll be I like it because I work on my own time I used to drive a taxi and I wasn't making enough money. I'm making way more money driving this way you know all these different reasons and yet I We never hear long-term. Yeah and There there's a growing Division between the kind of people that do this to there are the people who are employed somewhere else and maybe just need extra Income or it's not a full-time job. Those people are more likely to drop out Then the people who only work on these kinds of things people who say all I do is uber lift task rabbit I combine them all together When you when you count just people who's only work as an online labor platforms only 37 percent drop out within 12 months So it does fall quite a bit doesn't that surprise you though that it peaked in 2014 in June at 25 That's two and a half years ago Yeah, I mean if if JP Morgan Chase is right and and it's the the continued pace of job creation It would make sense that you'd have this sort of lagging indicator of people Trying to fill the gap trying to fill the gap and then realizing. Oh, you know what? I think I could get by on this one job or I finally found this one job I trust that it's gonna stick around So I'm gonna rely on that and I don't need to supplement my income anymore It would be halfway through that period at this point that you see you see the peak and the trough So it could be a good thing also the other thing to keep in mind is that uber and lift have been cutting the rates that they pay drivers So I was gonna say is gonna have a big effect on this as well Yeah, I've been thinking all along that we were talking about the number of people had peaked Doing the job, but that's not what it says It says the monthly earnings have dropped and uber was paying a lot of money early on and then cut it significantly, right? Yeah, though they did and if if this works if this whole thing works the way it should work is if The number of riders the number of drivers out there falls below a certain point the amount uber Charges will have to go up to encourage more more drivers And if they don't get enough drivers the amount that they pay their their drivers is gonna have to go up So, you know theoretically this works itself out to a nice equilibrium Between the number of rides that we as riders need and the number of drivers who are willing to drive at a particular rate yeah, so anybody who's Going to go for a job at uber or lift and thinks that's a long-term career path is not reading the news anyway So maybe people are going okay I'm just gonna do this but I can tell this is not the you know the card I want to hook myself to it definitely because no and DJ Sikani who drives for a living both both professionally and with these ride Hailing companies he hasn't been writing his column as much recently But he did a great job when he was doing it all the time of Giving you the driver's perspective and the fact that most of them don't think that they're they're making enough money That is definitely the perception among the drivers Yeah, I did only find one person who said that you know it was financially a great deal for them Actually, there was one guy who he and his dad bought a car together And they share the car and like he drives it on the weekends and his dad drives it during the week And he'll drive it at night his dad drives it during the day So they're getting a really really high value out of that car. They're getting a lot of money out of it So clever All right, well 300 Intel shooting star quadcopters were used to create the US flag shown during the halftime show of the Super Bowl in Houston on Sunday the quadcopters measure one foot across and the only way eight ounces each unit has an LED that can produce four billion color operation Combinations and is coordinated by a central computer the quadcopters did not fly live I we had a question about that Anyway, they did not fly live during halftime because of FAA restrictions during the game But a recorded video was shown on the TV broadcast and on the stadium screens That was cool. No, it was cool. It was cool looking and I wasn't paying that close attention I didn't have my critical eyes on but I didn't think oh those aren't actually happening right now So the editing was also very good I think it was when when but I almost said Madonna when Lady Gaga leaped off the thing and into the middle I would say everybody was texting back and forth going was that real time did that actually just happen I don't know whether she jumped into the middle or not That is a good question now to Did right? Yeah, but she was singing during the middle of that piece Maybe she jumped but the singing beforehand was it real time Hmm. Those are those are other things we'll have to look into but yeah, did this I Wondered about that when we saw the quadcopters and they everybody been talking about the quadcopters and I said well Wait a minute, isn't there a no fly restriction over the Super Bowl like they made a big deal out of that So this is this explains it they did it in the off time And what how cool it that have been to it to be out there and see this in operation when the Super Bowl wasn't happening You just happen to be in the neighborhood and be and watch it getting filmed Definitely that it you know all all credit to Intel. This isn't even the biggest one. They've done They've done up to 500 of these quadcopters at once all controlled by a computer and it's it's the same Principle behind your monitor, right? Like each of these things is just a pixel ladies. Yeah I like the gadget article that you posted to where they they there's a little embedded video there where they explain How this was done and they said this is controlled by only two people and the only reason it's to is because you got to have a backup person so the the programming on this and It's got to make you think a little bit though about black mirror and the episode with the bees U.s. Magistrate judge Thomas Ruder in Philadelphia ruled Friday that Google must comply with an FBI search warrant seeking data stored on servers Outside the United States judge Ruder ruled that users had no privacy interest in data during retrieval But only when the data was disclosed what he said is you don't have a possessory interest in your data Until it is surfaced So essentially he's saying Google can't decline to transfer the data to the US in order to make it available to the FBI And your privacy interest only comes into play once it's made available to the FBI and the FBI has a legal search warrant in the United States And therefore since the the the Revelation happens in the United States is covered by the warrant now this decision Conflicts with a second US Circuit Court of Appeals decision in New York last year stating that a US warrant should not apply to data stored by Microsoft in Ireland both cases involved warrants issued under the stored communications act of 1986 the one thing everyone can agree on is That act needs to be updated because it really is meant for telecommunications for telephone exchanges and Applying it to data more and more causes these questions to rise up like well wait How do you treat data when it's stored? This isn't somebody having a phone call where one person's in France and the person in the US you have data stored all over the place The other difference between the Microsoft case in this one all of the data in question in the Microsoft case was stored in Ireland And so that was part of the judge's decision was like hey, it's all in Ireland There's none of it here So you have to go through Ireland in this case Google was saying we break up data and it's available on various servers We've tried to figure out what data the FBI wants That happens to be on US servers and give it to them and then not the data that's elsewhere and the judge is saying Let's just make it simple if the account is in the United States you pull all the data into the United States and then you can hand it over because you've moved it into the United States and It doesn't violate a privacy interest when you're moving data around any more than it is when you move data around Just to optimize your data center performance So let me let me back you up to what was actually ruled on here because I still keep getting confused Let's say I'm in Ireland and I'm using a Google service Is this saying that until I ask for it? It doesn't necessarily exist in Ireland So until I hit refresh on my email that data is not mine because I I don't I haven't asked for it yet And therefore if it were sitting on a on another server in another country US or otherwise Then they could they could show to the FBI Not really it really doesn't have anything to do with you as a user. Oh What what he's saying is that users had not privacy interest in data during retrieval. Yeah, I'm gonna try to find the the actual wording that he said Okay Though the retrieval of the electronic data by Google from its multiple data centers abroad has the potential for an invasion of privacy The actual infringement of privacy occurs at the time of disclosure in the United States So what he's saying is What happens between the user and the data at any other time? Doesn't matter what happens when Google transfers data because the FBI said we need data from this account and Google says Well, some of it's here in the US, but some of it's over there in Ireland doesn't matter What the judge is saying is all that matters is once you actually hand that data over Once you've surfaced to the data off the servers and give it that's when the privacy concerns come in and at that point Since you're handing it over in the United States US law applies to it. Oh, come on Okay, but I don't like this one at all. Yeah, he says there was no meaningful interference with the account holders possessory interest in the data sought Now this is like I said, this is a fraud case. It probably involves people in the United States It might be different if it involved someone who was overseas. I think this judge is saying Makes sense from a certain point of view, which is like, hey, look the person's here in the US You've got a distributed, you know server system So let's just look at what happens when when the data is called up And if the guy is sitting at his computer and calls it up it all comes up in the US So all the FBI is asking for the same thing show us what the guy would see when he called up as his data And and that's where I'm going to rule on whether there's a privacy violation And since the FBI has a warrant for a US person in the United States, it doesn't matter where the data was before that Okay, okay, but it might be a different answer that judges ruling could have been different If that person had been in Ireland, well, I'm just guessing that right? That's not that is not actually That's not actually ruled upon here. Okay, basically what he's saying is it only matters where the data is when it's revealed So potentially you could you could get the data from a foreigner anyway because they don't have the same rights as in the US But the big the big thing that google is going to appeal on is look We think that moving data from overseas into the united states is meaningful That that there there is meaning to that transaction on its own And whether that would happen naturally or not shouldn't matter We shouldn't be required to pull data in Because there is a precedent to say well, okay in this case It was only a couple blocks of data to complete the thing that the FBI wanted sure that makes sense But what what when when it's not one of when all of the data is on a foreign server Right, then are you allowed to just go into that country's servers and pull the data off? I think that's what this case is going to be about And and that's why google's going to appeal it I hope so All right. Well, idcs 2016 smartphone shipment estimates show oppo rose 122.2 to become the number one smartphone shipper in china the world's largest smartphone market Huawei held on to the number two spot followed by vivo China's bbk owns oppo and vivo thus grabbing a third of the chinese market Apples market share fell 23.2 to number four and last year's leader xiao mi fell 36 to fifth place So this market's pretty of course you had to This market is pretty volatile. I mean that must mean that a whole Doesn't it well you're looking at you're looking at one year You I I don't think it's normally very volatile xiao mi has been on top of this heap for a while This is a big deal though that xiao mi has dropped from a 40.3 percent I'm sorry from a 15.1 percent market share in 2015 To an 8.9 percent market share From top of the heap Well, it's volatile for xiao mi And for apple to rule on volatility You would have to look at 15 years and say is it always up and down as everybody always bouncing around and the fact the matter is It hasn't really xiao mi's been pretty stable at the top. Huawei has been very stable at number two Apple I think you know, it's a big fall of 23.2 percent And there are a lot of questions why it went from 58.4 million shipment volume down to 44.9 but xiao mi is more explainable than apple and everything else looks about right xiao mi Is getting its lunch eaten because it went with direct sales for years And that's what helped it build its brand But now oppo and vivo are coming in and selling in retail channels And and they're beating it up. So xiao mi has to react to that apple may be just You know, finding out that it's it's novelty effect is wearing off and and maybe and I read some analysts say When apple comes out with a significantly different phone, it will start to do better in china again Huawei is the stable one here Interesting. I I guess you're right looking at a single data point here, but it feels like the sales might be Expanding rapidly enough that that watching the daily winner is kind of is a volatile thing to do Well, look at the total shipment volume though You only went from 429.9 to 467.3. So the overall market isn't isn't really going crazy In its growth. It's only 8.7 growth. It's the decline of apple and xiao mi and the rocketing up of vivo and oppo Uh, that's happening here. It's it's a shift in who's buying what? Yeah, yeah, I mean did oppo and vivo come out with crazy new phones? Or is it just the fact that they went through the retail channels that we know? Yeah, they came out with some better phones too. They they they upped their game I think that's definitely part of it oppo particularly has some really nice models and xiao mi's phones In some ways actually maybe xiao mi and apple are having the same story xiao mi's recent phones Have not been as revolutionary that a lot of people have looked at them and said me four looks kind of like To me three. I don't really see the big difference there. So Maybe that's what needs to happen. Both of them need to come up with something that catches people's eyes And and meanwhile if they don't people are going to turn to a much more affordable solution with oppo and vivo Yeah Well to get all the tech headlines each day in less than 10 minutes You can subscribe to daily tech headlines Dot com go check it out All right usfcc sent letters to t-mobile at&t verizon and comcast friday Saying the agency has dropped its inquiries into zero rating zero rating is a way the content providers Can provide services that don't count against your data cap So the most famous one here in the united states right now is t-mobile's been john Anybody who can get into t-mobile's program and they don't have to pay to be part of it Can say our service usually a video service sometimes music services Won't count against your data cap. Of course t-mobile also only has unlimited data Plans now too. So it's very few of the of their products that even need this at&t and verizon have two different plans Verizon's is called free base data And essentially that says if you want to pay us We won't count your services data against our customer's plan And they use that for their own go 90 plan and as far as we know, that's the that's the only major Client they have for it is their own go 90 video service doesn't count against your data cap at&t has two of them Previously under tom wheeler the FCC had found that verizon and at&t sponsored data plans Were likely to be violating the open internet order By by being anti competitive Because at&t sponsored data like verizon's is available pretty much just for direct tv and direct tv now their own product However, at&t data perks was a different one at&t data perks was one where you could access advertisements And to access the advertisements they didn't count against your data plan And the FCC had found previously that that one didn't seem to violate things So They're now saying that this that they're just you know what that was cute. That was a big problem That's what the last guy thought but we don't really care about this anymore. We're not going to investigate this We just don't see any reason to deal with it Yeah, it's a little bit of a dance for for chairman pie Under tom wheeler the open internet guidelines said that zero rating was not a violation But that the FCC would consider complaints on a case-by-case basis So in december and i think in november they started sending out Letters saying please tell us about your plan And then on january 11th when chairman wheeler was still in charge of the FCC they put out a report That said a standard for evaluating these kinds of programs that said you need to consider consumer welfare The effects on competition Whether there's discriminatory conduct if companies are preferring their own services The impact of data caps the ability to opt in or out and the information about the plan And that's when they said we think atnt sponsored data the one that direct tv uses and verizon's freebie data Which is the one that go 90 uses Are providing significant risk to consumers and competition However, they didn't go as far as to order them to be suspended So what's happening here is chairman pie is saying we're not going to continue this investigation We don't think there was anything wrong any any statements made before have no legal impact and here's chairman pie's Quote these free data plans have proven to be popular among consumers particularly low income americans and have enhanced competition in the wireless market Going forward the federal communications commission will not focus on denying americans free data Instead we will concentrate on expanding broadband deployment and encouraging innovative service offering offerings So it's it's interesting and I and I don't know whether this is wrong or right, but it's interesting to look at it as being fostering Competition certainly what t-mobile has done has fostered competition right people are people are switching to t-mobile like crazy Because they're going to get this free stuff. They get this unlimited data plans. They get to watch their netflix for free So you would agree with that, but if you look at the services being offered for free Um With the exception of t-mobile where anybody who wants to have their their video service part of that free video streaming Can do that if you look at anything else if I invent the greatest new technology of video streaming I'm not going to be on at&ts and I'm not going to be on horizons So I am not able to compete freely in that environment with the big guys that are already there, correct Well without paying right? I mean, yes, you can compete freely you absolutely can compete freely all you have to do is pay the amount That's not freely. Well your competition is free I mean that's like saying I can't compete freely because I have to pay rent right in a certain respect It's like hey, that's the cost of doing business Verizon charges you to reach the their their consumers so to me The issue should be are they actually charging an amount that is meant to just provide a service Or are they charging an amount that is meant to prevent you from competing with their own service and chairman wheeler in his report Said it seems on first investigation that the amount at&t and Verizon charge Is usurious that that it's out of hand. It's well beyond the cost of the service And that they don't seem to charge themselves that much to put their own services on and this is anti competitive the The way I look at it though is If this becomes a problem, is there enough competition where you as a consumer can say wow? Yeah, I I don't want to use Verizon or at&t because I can't get these other services that are cool Because they're trying to push me to use their own service I'm going to go to another competitor with wireless service in the united states We're kind of right on that gray line like well, we have four nationwide competitors We have several regional competitors as well metropc s u.s. Cellular, etc So arguably there's enough competition But it's not so vast that it's a slam dunk To say there is especially when you consider that t-mobile and sprint Don't have the coverage that Verizon and at&t have Right, right. Uh, that's an interesting take on it. I've always wondered why you weren't as up in arms as I thought you would be about zero rating Well, because it it does feel like it'd be hard for the newcomer to get in What I don't like about zero rating is it it makes the the sort of permissionless innovation of the internet harder If everybody is doing zero rating and everybody who wants to launch a new video service on the internet has to pay To get access to consumers suddenly we're trending back towards cable television. I think that's a horrible idea The solution to that problem is what's it what's under debate Here and whether it's government regulation or what chairman we either said was We should look at it very carefully case by case and where we find that it's being used in an anti-competitive measure We should stop it. That sounds reasonable. It's a lot harder to put into practice Then then it sounds But he was making an effort to do that what chairman pie is saying is hey, you know what if companies want to Try this to to charge then we should let them I would be okay with that If they didn't have any government included advantages in their marketplace Most of these companies have received government subsidies or government permissions to be able to roll out their networks easily Can I easily go create a competitive wireless isp? Not not as easy as it should be So let's work on that and actually the one thing that heartens me is that he does said we will concentrate on expanding broadband deployment Now if he means Providing ways for the existing companies to keep expanding. That's not as exciting to me as saying Providing ways for more competitors to enter the market so that we have a vibrant marketplace And companies won't want to do things that are abusive to their consumers And make it harder to use the internet and innovate on the internet because they know consumers will go somewhere else You know Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the uh previous administration provide a lot of funding for For these companies to roll out more broadband internet And I don't remember it going through the roof and getting crazy available Well, I mean, yes and no there there was there was a little bit of uh, you know of money given to to expand Broadband it really didn't go very far And it was given a lot to incumbents In a lot of cases so yeah This sort of theft sort of felt like when in california, we had a vote of whether or not to have the um Have gambling be allowed and the way they sold it was they said all of the money all of the taxes on this This is all going to go to the schools But what the the the state government did was said, okay Well now that we have all this money for the state schools from the from the uh gambling We can take the money we were spending and do something else with it Right, so all the money went to schools But it didn't increase the amount of money going to schools because they took the other way away So that feels like what these guys did was they said, okay now we have this money to build our infrastructure We'll take our money to go build, you know this This uh, and here's the other thing and w scottis one, uh asked this very pertinent question in the chat room He said I don't understand why at&t and verizon or t-mobile for that matter Feel the need to exclude apps from data caps kind of makes the whole argument that data caps are for congestion invalid And I answered it in the chat room. It's like because it is invalid They don't have data caps to help with congestion In in wireless data there there are some arguments that it that it has a mild effect to help congestion Especially on certain nodes where things are busy in wired internet. It's it's almost entirely absent But in both cases data caps are not the most effective way to combat congestion It just doesn't work data caps are a way to charge you money And so zero rating is a way to make it even more complex for you to figure out what you're paying for And in that case I I also do not like zero rating The way t-mobile does it is less complicated for you as a consumer because it's not making anybody pay And in fact unlimited data is the best thing for consumers because you don't have to think about it at all And nobody's picking winners or losers right, right And honestly that's that that's why I want more competition and that's why i'm glad t-mobile did not get purchased by at&t Because what they have done is they've gone out and they have aggressively marketed these consumer friendly plans They're not perfect, but they have really pushed more of the the plans to take on things like, okay Let's let's not subsidize all the purchases. Let's come up with more consumer ways consumer friendly ways of acquiring devices and It has pushed at&t and verizon to creatively come up with ways of unlimited data For instance, if you're a direct tv subscriber, you can get unlimited data from at&t now They haven't quite made the jump all the way to unlimited data But that's what competition should do is make it so that zero rating doesn't even matter because This kind of bunk way of charging you for data that is unlimited really in practice Doesn't do anything to help manage the networks and is just a different way of trying to charge you more money in yet another completely scientific Large sample set database way of explaining this. I've noticed that at&t in particular has become More interesting from a competitive standpoint I called them up when I wanted to get rid of my verizon my five because they were charging me for every month And I wanted a different kind of plan and they didn't have anything I wanted And so I called up at&t and said, hey, do you guys have anything that could compete with this? And they said no, but hey, well, we're here. Would you like more data just on your plan? It's like nice What and I had five gig and they said yeah, you want eight gig instead? I said for how much money and they said for nothing and I said for nothing for how long and they said forever Is that fattening what it was the catch there's a catch here and they said nope And you get a rollover too and we haven't run out of data ever since and I don't need a my fi anymore It was and and I mean that is my whole sample set of one But I don't think that would have happened five years ago at big gms Do we know what the actual cost per gigabyte is to carry here? That's almost a meaningless question because it's a modem with blinking lights now There is a maximum capacity to that modem And then there is a cost to adding more capacity to that node perhaps But that's not really a cost per gigabyte. It does not cost your internet provider more money For for each additional megabyte or gigabyte that you download what causes problems is Simultaneous use and that's why data caps don't actually work because Simultaneous use is the problem if you have a five gigabyte cap and everybody's like well I just won't use the internet except at nine o'clock and everybody uses it at nine o'clock You have the same congestion problem that you did before when everybody was using the internet at nine o'clock So it really doesn't do much to help So what does make sense is uh like Steve's uncle bob lives out in the woods in Idaho And he's got a plan where he gets so much He's got a data cap, but if he does stuff in the middle of the night, it doesn't apply to his data cap Yeah, like certain like like surge pricing like that that could be a way to actually creatively make more money and Perhaps help your congestion, which is hey our nodes are getting uh blocked up We'll give you a credit on your bill if you if you turn off your internet service for an hour Go play a board game. Yeah Real quickly before we get out of here on friday the FCC also rescinded the approval for nine companies to provide subsidized broadband As part of what's called the lifeline program that program has been around forever for telecommunications for telephone services Was changed last year to allow for broadband service as well more than 900 companies participate in the program Though not all of them have broadband offerings. Some of them are just telephone companies FCC commissioner Ajit Pai says the decision was made as part of an effort to eliminate fraud and waste From the lifeline program all nine of the companies had received approval within the last two months So these weren't companies that have been doing this for years They had just been approved by the previous administration and because of regulations allowing for a 30 day overturn of things and another loophole that that a couple of these others went through the new administration is saying Hold on let's let's put a pause on all of these even the ones that were recently approved Because we think we can clean up this program and make it more efficient Now a lot of people are very upset about this because it is causing children And low-income families to lose their internet connection because they were getting nine dollars and 25 cents a month to help them pay for the internet And now they won't be for these nine companies, but keep in mind It's only nine companies out of more than 900 and You may not believe them But this is a pause. It doesn't mean they won't give approval to these nine companies going forward It's a matter of whether you trust commissioner pie or not to do the right thing and say, okay, we've cleaned up the fraud We've made the program more efficient. Now we can give these nine companies their approval So who are the 900 companies that provide broadband? I know right that that is actually one of the questions I said is like because they don't all provide broadband. Some of them are just telephony companies Okay, so it's really at and t and verizon and comcast and and frontier Yeah, and there's you know, there's third-party services that do like accessibility Services, you know t2t and stuff like that So there's there's a lot of companies that aren't your typical telco involved here But also, you know small isps that provide telephony and small cable companies When you look at the vast number of cable companies in the united states You would think it should only be at four because four have 90 plus of the market But there's a lot of little like single community apartment community small town companies out there Sure. Sure. Well, this is one of those ones to watch then Yeah, for sure. Thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit.com Uh, don't have I have a reverse pick of the day today. Paolo, uh, who's one of the patreons wrote I was wondering if you could help me. It's okay. If you can't I'm looking for some podcasts on more vertical issues Like infrastructure automation dev ops and the cloud Sources like this weekend enterprise tech or floss weekly do provide some information But even those are a bit too broad for me. Do you know of any sources that are even more vertical? Hmm. Now, I don't have anything. What is dev ops? Uh, yeah You need you need the podcast to explain that to you, right? Uh developer operations so If you out there in the audience, uh, know of something That vertical I don't actually off the top of my head Give us give us an email feedback at daily tech news show dot com And we'll pass them along to paolo and and maybe read a few of them back out on the show Like he really wants super niche stuff here And you know what? God bless the uh, the podcasting world. There is one. You know what? I was gonna say that we can enterprise tech That's what I don't know. He's like, yeah, that one's pretty niche But still I want like single topics within this weekend enterprise tech So he sounds like paolo should start one. Yeah, maybe maybe you should paolo Send your pics to us folks feedback at daily tech news show dot com Uh Couple of other things here frank selestino heard us talking about the domino's facebook messenger service And came across a service app in his area called snow hub He lives in connecticut and the snow is part of winter although the frequency and quantity have been in steady decline over the last couple decades The app snow hub is similar to uber, but for snow removal services service providers Which range from full-on businesses to just individuals with a plow list themselves on the app And consumers find them by filling out a form You don't have to leave your house. You don't have to go out in the cold You send a picture of the completed job and the payment is handled directly through the app Uh frank says I haven't used it because I live in a condo, but I will be suggesting it to my stepfather Zachary Dunn wrote in to clarify that progressive web apps or pwas are not just a google initiative microsoft has stated its intention to list pwas in the windows store and that pwas are built so that they should still work Just maybe without all the features even in browsers that don't Specifically support pwa standards He adds google is often seen taking the lead with pwas because they are the only interested party that has both a popular mobile os and a web browser Microsoft is still trying to finish edge and mozilla is a nonprofit They also have the most to gain as google makes more ad revenue from the web than native But microsoft and mozilla's browser teams are very excited about these features and can be seen on github and twitter helping to steer these standards That makes me even more excited about progressive web apps Because they're literally cross-platform and then jesse says when listening to friday's episode I always chuckle when people talk about mobile payments I have a one plus three and at my local food lion I use it a lot the joy comes when i'm often prompted with a different language to complete the transaction I've been offered what I assume is chinese, french, spanish, russian and about 50 of the time english Not sure if it's my phone or the horrible point of sale operating system But these devices are playing catch up in functionality and speed of use That when I was looking for more information on the harrier avab and the way that it it takes off I was trying to look for plans and I found some and all of the text was in russian Yeah, I have never had any of my mobile transactions prompt me in any language other than mine. So I wonder if that's a one plus three Thing that maybe you should be fixed with a firmware All right. Thank you allison sharden for being on the show as always. Where can people find more of you? well, you can find me at pod feet dot com on twitter i'm at pod feet and I am glad that we were able to finish off and close the The alliance between the smr podcast and pod feet at dts. That was that was The trifecta. Yeah, the trifecta. There we go the axis of geek Thanks to everyone who supports the show including dpac sing yuna toyvannon jason russell folks like robert monti and thomas g Who just raised their pledges at patreon.com slash dts We do this show because you want us to do it So if you want us to keep doing it head to patreon.com slash dts Take our survey too. Uh, no matter whether you support us on patreon or not bit dot ly slash dts 2017 Is the place to go to answer a few questions to help us make the show better Please take the survey our email address is feedback at daily tech news show.com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and our website of course is daily tech news show dot com Back tomorrow with patrick bezia talk to you then Who is part of the frog pants network? Get more at frogpants.com Oppose you have enjoyed this program Good show Boom, what should we call it? I learned a lot You know what? I'm not allowed to vote on pod on showbot.tv because I have the same ip address as steve i think Oh, and he already voted. Yeah, and he already voted for stuff. So it's like it says you already voted for that Oh, man, I tried turning off wi-fi. So I'd get a different one But the AT&T signal is so low in my house that it's not enough to load the text Well, maybe we just need to pay for more data All right, we have uh going gaga over drone tech Nice double irish email It's a it's a Take on the whole double irish taxation thing or non taxation Uber goes vertical No oppo position fly away with uber this weekend beer money zero roadblocks were zero rating Eat the ubers When a gig isn't just isn't enough All your drones belong to us is that data fattening uber flying Which I said fat checkers Um or jones growth in CGI if she's Well, I'm trying to find someone that pops and grabs me by my non-existent lapels got it gaga uses FCC zero rating means zero worries I do like zero roadblocks for zero rating Yeah What do you which one do you guys like Because I like zero roadblocks for zero rating and because it doesn't imply that zero rating is automatically good Yeah, it's it's a neutral. It's neutral on zero ratings. It doesn't say whether it's good or bad Just says But I do like uber goes vertical uber goes vertical is pretty good too. Yeah, but we already did one on fine Didn't we on uber ubers plans to uh, I think back in october we did. Yeah With veronica It wasn't vertical, but it was uber and flying Not gonna work, but yeah, they can try Ah, you're so negative. I just know how these things work. It's not gonna Let me just say it may happen. I don't think it's gonna happen in any times feel remotely Uh, two or three years. No No, totally don't see it Yeah, it seems pretty aggressive I'm more like I'm more likely than when the lottery in that time see one before uh, VR is anywhere other than gaming Like in a big way. Well, it's already in industrial uses. So what wouldn't when you see you mean on on the consumer side What do you mean a big way though? Like don't don't flight simulators count as virtual reality Oh, we got in that argument before I guess I don't I think you're meaning on the consumer side like when when do people who have vr at home use them for anything besides games Well, no, I wasn't just thinking that. I mean People have said, oh, you know, uh, vr will be amazing for doctors Yeah, and people are using vr for dark in medical situations already They're using it for treatment too. There's a lot of psychological like ptsd treatments using it And there's some industrial design applications being used as well But you sure not ar In that case it's because I see the ar thing where you're you're working on something down in a mine And you've got the glasses on the show what it should look like Um, but when there's some industrial design stuff happening where you you put on the the hood And then you can walk around the site without actually being at the site Um, yeah, I I mean bring it up ar though. I think ar ends up being All of it because you can do vr with ar essentially. Yeah, you just blank the screen out, right? Yeah So I I think I think the distinction goes away eventually and it's all just It's all VR glasses on and do the roller coaster or do uh, you know Walk on a tightrope and they freak out and it's really really immersive that yes But what are you gonna use it for other than gaming? I don't know. Well, uh, a roller coaster isn't gaming What is it do you mean entertainment? Are you just saying sure? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'll say entertainment. Yeah I don't think vr will be used by consumers for much beyond entertainment. I think I think you're absolutely right that augmented reality will yeah, maybe maybe they put a A vr helmet on you and and drop you down into the middle of a war zone like for reals And then you would have to walk it that's you have to wear that right before you walk into the voting booth Isn't isn't that shades of the old goldwater campaign back in the That would mean the johnson campaign johnson Against goldwater. Yeah against goldwater because he did the whole infamous ad with the little girl picking pedals off the daisy the countdown She couldn't count first of all she couldn't count straight Yard countdown, but then it then it then it fades away into a countdown to a nuclear detonation Like this just this november when you vote like in a very ominous tone The the crazy thing dan carlin's most recent hardcore history is about the about nuclear proliferation, you know and tracing it from Truman and the decision to drop the bomb into the the 70s And and basically kind of going through the khrushchev Assumption of power and a lot about the jfk, you know cuban missile crisis But he hit one of his points he keeps hammering is like these bombs are all still here Like we've had some disarmament, but the capacity that existed in the 60s to obliterate the world still exists Yeah, didn't go away Well, we went out to dinner with some friends of ours that I thought we were going to talk about All the fear uncertainty and doubt going on in the country right now and the guy was super optimistic and was And I was really happy because I thought it was going to be this dismal dinner and everything And the last thing is he gets out of the car. He goes well except for nuclear war. Bye But that's always there so yeah, yeah, you know, it's uh, it's it's it's an odd thing I think it's at some point when someone develops either a larger bang or Something that can take the place. I mean, it's just a big hammer That's you know, that's why people use the term nuclear option because that's like your That's your back up against the wall and you have no other options and it's You know countries like that I mean britain britain having having a nuclear nuclear Capacity capability for britain cost of an arm and a leg They used to have they used to have the ability to drop freefall bombs and ICBMs, but they dropped them because It's too expensive and the only ones they have left are like four ballistic missile submarines And they buy the missiles from us And then we you know, they're the warheads are theirs Um, but it's just you know, it's a big debate and it's another reason we need space travel So we can blow another planet up. No, so you can get away from all of the I would name that planet calgon Take me away. Take me away Planet calgon That's ridiculous It's the paradise you've always dreamt on a planet you haven't seen I'm joining all of my slack in again in the off world colonies It's so blade runner I would really like to see what those off-world colonies look like and they're I bet you they're nothing but like corrugated Kwanzaa hug miserable like greenhouses where people are like, you know, breathing their their adjacent ficus plant to get whenever available oxygen Ah Allison Were you able to be? uh still capable of travel And there was travel to mars. Would you do it? Travel to mars like Yeah, so you're like you like you are right now. You're perfectly capable of boarding a ship. It's not a one-way trip Would you do it? Yeah Probably why not see mars Would you go there to live? I don't know. What's it like there? It's very cold and very red. Actually, I know the answer that no Yeah, it's because we moved from uh, the northern part of one town to the southern part of the same town Once since we've been married. Uh-huh. It did like it I see the job for it same job for 35 years, you know, I don't change anything you guys try It's not like you're your home bodies. You just right. We're like, yeah, we like living where we live We're going to the Galapagos and Machu Picchu. I know that's exciting It'd be fun. Yeah. Are you gonna play with the tortoise? I hope so that from what I understand the agenda In the Galapagos is you get up you go snorkeling come back take a shower eat go over to the island play with Play around with the animals take pictures of them and then you go back and have cocktails So wait, what's the deal with the island? I mean like how do they? How do they get it so like, you know people aren't screwing it up Well, they don't bring in cruise ships first of all and the biggest ships are like a hundred people We're going to go on one that's I think 16 So they're little catamarans that go in it's not not, you know Hordes, it's not the queen Mary Right, right exactly. So that should be fun Okay, so Do you have to do any science? I hope so You have to do any science We need you to describe everything you see while you're here I'm hoping there's a or I've heard there's going to be a science march. By the way, did you hear that? I yeah, no, I read something about that, but I didn't didn't follow up to find out what it is I find it we find it Like really We have to march in support of determining that things are true Yes, apparently Apparently Slack is acting really weird. It's not acting replicable results replicable results Slack is acting really weird. What's happening weird? Like it's not acting like a real app like I can't move the window around the this which one is slack The slack app. So like I'm trying to say, okay, I want to add something I can launch it But I'm in the dtns bosses slack and that's all I can do. I can't do anything else Oh, I can hit the button to start a new conversation, but I can't Like I can't even slide the window around. Oh, that's why I can't command tab to it and I just installed it I can hit what's restarted I just quit it and restarted it. I can't quit you crap quit it quit it Oh march for science.com. Oh, thank you another jay martin March for science.com on earth day. Oh, okay It was ryan ozala that I saw mentioned this earlier today earth day is april 22nd Walk out of the lab and into the streets I like it. That's one I can get into focalize your journal Would be a double-blind march Well, we have an equal number of people not marching so we can compare as a controller They'll be the control group, but you have to stand on white paper Okay, this is crap. Why do you have why do you have post-it notes on your feet? They're my foot notes. Hey Oh look at the time. I gotta get going Yeah, me too All right, actually I do I've got a friend going over for me to move her mac from her old mac I am almost published here I made a nice meaty show though. It was good. Yeah, thanks again I noticed one one problem. I'm so used to just listening. Do you teach me stuff at one point? I was just going Because I'm just used to listening You're used to listening to the show I was I thought you'd be used to wanting this to yell back at me so often that Uh, uh, no All right, a box for zero rating is the title the show is published We are out of here Where's the window? Thank you everyone for watching or listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow