 The window open simultaneously. I just have two windows open when I do the hangouts That's good, man. That's really good. So yeah, perfect Kind of let me just mute the audio video, right? Awesome. Yeah, exactly. You mute the YouTube and then you just use the chat So guys, thank you so much for checking in. I just got some really live stream knowledge really good Live stream knowledge from Bobby. So as you can see, I'm here with a special guest Bobby Risto from the YouTube channel Bobby's perspective and it's funny how I found the Bobby's channel like I guess it was like 2017 when he was still called Bobby's raw vegan perspective and I was really intrigued by his videos because he was like jacked and Talking about raw veganism and I was vegan back then. So I was like, dude, this is pretty interesting stuff But he had also this kind of emancipated look to his physique Like he was like really really shredded like I would say like stage bodybuilding stage lean But he did it like on a raw vegan diet has still some had still some muscle mass But he had the kind of a weird look but I still like followed through and then I guess later on he became You can correct me from Rome just like Rob Bobby's perspective or what was there another step in between? No, no, there was it. I just got rid of the label all together. No, okay. Yeah, and then also I Realized and at the end of 2018 you had like issues on the vegan diet Or better say it issues before but you still talk like publicly about it and I remember to this day You had a video you did a video with her Tristan from the YouTube channel primal edge health and I was watching the video. I was like eating literally I was eating my chickpeas And you were talking about your issues with the vegan diet and I was always open-minded I was like, yeah, this dude seems cool You know, I'm I still keep watching and then you said yeah because of the vegan diet You became more anxious and like socially awkward a little bit and then it hit me because exactly the same thing happened to me 2017 but I never thought it was because of the diet and then I was like I was like dude This is it now. I'm gonna incorporate some fish again and just see what happens because I cannot live with that anymore I had to take like a lot of supplements against against my anxiety and then I was like, dude I need to change things up. So then right there. I decided to to quit the vegan diet So guys if you're angry, it's Bobby's fault. It's mine. So thank you so much for being here Yes, I'm the ex vegan maker. Yeah, so first and foremost Charles. Thanks for having me and Yeah, so let me Introduce myself quickly as quick as I can possibly do that. I went vegan Round about it's almost five years by now because I quit three and a half months ago. Basically and Back in the day you said that correctly. I Was raw vegan and this is something that I'm getting a lot of hate for nowadays, right? People say yeah, because you've been raw vegan. This is why you failed on the vegan diet But guys for anybody that has this assumption Let me clarify quickly. I start out like anybody else with a whole food plant-based diet You have to take into account people that try raw veganism. They don't start with raw veganism That is not how you get into it. You start Probably with a whole food plant-based diet like anybody else and then I myself Had issues with that diet like so many others and this is why I tried to modify that diet, right? So I tried the fasting I tried the raw veganism I tried the food-based approach just to see what works and this is why I say this on my channel as well people that experiment with those things they already have issues with this vegan diet omnivores on the other hand They don't jump from juice fast to juice fast. They don't start drinking piss when they had a steak yesterday, right? Think about it So therefore, yes, I tried the raw vegan thing briefly and then pretty quickly I left that label behind and I just called my channel Bobby's perspective perspective because in the end We all just share our perspectives. This is what anybody can do no matter if you are a qualified Medic medical professional or a scientist or whatever. It is always your perspective. Don't get the twisted Nobody has the ultimate truth. This is key here So anyways, yeah from there on I went back to a whole food plant-based diet and if I say whole food plant-based Everything was accounted for every macronutrient every micronutrient Everything was measured if you are into Chronometer I can send you all of my logs and you can see what I've been eating on a daily basis The daily dozen of dr. Gregor. Yeah, the berries the chickpeas the legumes the whatever mushrooms greens The daily farts some guys in my comment section say Man, I did it all right. Everything was adjusted for the macro ratio was body-building specific I used to eat round about 300 carbohydrates for people that are into this 160 grams of protein at least 60 grams of fat the supplementation was in check everything was covered But I don't want to bore you with any more details point of the story is even though everything was Precisely plant the vegan diet still failed me. So Charles as you said out of a sudden I started getting very very depressed very very anxious and socially awkward and that is very strange for me Because usually I have no issues with that whatsoever. I'm a pretty social person when I go out. I feel comfortable I remember myself saying and this was before veganism People would ask me man Why are you so comfortable when you go outside into clubs into outside would then use you always Seem so comfortable and I would say yeah, because it feels like I'm in my living room I'm just in my living room when I'm outside, right? It is no different to me Yeah, but through veganism out of a sudden I would get anxious whilst shopping, right? I would be in the supermarket and I would feel paranoid people would look at me the strangest things started happening From there on I developed further issues not only the paranoia, but all of a sudden physical issues Weakness muscle cramps diarrhea digestive upset diarrhea for eight months straight Right and I went to the doctors on that note. I did the sebo testing I did the IBS testing all of that. I went through every single approach There is elimination diets low for the map diets all of it Nothing worked and then in the end to fast forward after the reintroduction of just couple of eggs and fish All of those symptoms just went away overnight basically Right, so it was not a caloric issue like many vegans like to say they always like to say yeah You didn't eat enough and not bullshit man. I even accounted for that egg that I ate I Took out the chia seeds and I replaced them with one egg in the beginning So I have exactly five grams of protein seven grams of fat zero carbs Everything was accounted for it was replicated and still the effects were instant Yeah, so that's pretty much My vegan story in a nutshell. I guess people also don't realize how Specifically you look at your nutrition if you're into bodybuilding because then people on the vegan diet will tell you Yeah, but you did it wrong did you account for that? But people don't realize if you do bodybuilding at such a high and dedicated level You account for everything and people don't realize that people think like you eat like a Mainstream guy and you don't look at your omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acid ratio or something like that But I watched One of your blocks where you had like your banana shirt on and you were in front of chronometer and you exactly said yet I'm not deficient in that I have that I have this So I call it like chronometer warrior like totally man. You had everything down to the tea Yeah, see that's the thing man those people that say you didn't do it, right? Or you didn't track what you were eating. They really don't understand the bodybuilding mindset That's very very true as an ex bodybuilder, right? Because I'm not into bodybuilding per se anymore into Sport per se sport performance just I would say human performance in general not Only bodybuilding as it used to be but you take that mindset and you adapted to veganism I Believe that those ex vegans many of them that failed quote-unquote were actually really really obsessed with their performance and they Saw that it doesn't work Many people that never experienced real performance and we'll help in the first place Don't really see the difference. They never got used to really really feeling great And if you never had something you cannot miss it, right? You cannot miss what you never had those people and I'm gonna call out a name Goju man just made another video about me again And he's blaming me for whatever right for mushrooms for this for that they're trying to find a reason But meanwhile you can clearly see those people never Performed on a high level those are people that do not demand much from their buddies And therefore they do not see the difference if I'm eating a little bit of tofu I'm eating a little bit of chickpeas or just a standard American diet They won't feel the difference But if you're used to high performance man You will see that performance plummet on the vegan diet and this is what you see with so many Athletes I'm going on a rant here. I'm gonna cut myself short But look into vegan athletes and how their careers failed just check that out Look up when they switch to a vegan diet and when they start failing. Yeah, it's absolutely sad That's it's a good point by the way about the rent and you can rent as much as you want to Yeah, we really like to listen to you. No worries, but what I want to say also is if for example like talking about performance Have a good example from like also when I was cutting down to like 10% body fat I was telling my my friends like yeah, dude I'm like cutting right now. I'm a little bit stressed. I'm a little bit grumpy You need to understand and my friends were not really understanding what I was talking about and then one of my friends Also, he cut down some body fat and then he told me dude now I know what you meant because as soon as you Demand so much from yourself you cut down you are like I was on like 1,700 calories with like 15,000 steps a day Five times a week I had to go to the gym sometimes low sleep and exactly if you go through that man Like your tuition plays a huge role Absolutely, absolutely, but in those cutting purposes because I have the comparison there I can tell you that cutting down is stressful enough on its own if you're cutting down It is supremely stressful on the body. You will get nervous from time to times You will feel a bit depressed that is just normal when you are in a caloric deficit But there is no comparison of a meat-based diet in a caloric deficit and a vegan diet in a caloric deficit Once you drop the calories on a vegan diet This is where most people fail and this is why vegans like to say yeah, you didn't eat enough But guys you should be able to go into a caloric deficit with your diet on a meat-based diet It is hard, but doable It is achievable if you do it on a vegan diet on the other hand You will see that after a couple of weeks probably you will drop the vegan diet altogether Because then you truly run into nutritional deficiencies You will see that on the vegan diet in order to cope with it long term You will need to overeat. You will need to keep your own saturated body fat tissues And you will have to eat humongous quantities just to get some Nutrients in because plant foods don't get it twisted are not nutritionally dense at all I know it is promoted as such the most nutritional foods nowadays. There are plants now It's not true the most nutritional foods as you know as well Charles are organ meats fatty fish such things You can eat in lower quantities lower calories You can maintain a good physique whilst getting in all the micronutrients That is not achievable on a vegan diet If you want to have lean body mass on a vegan diet You will get nutrition deficient after a while and this is why people that speak out against the vegan diet are people most of the time that actually faced those issues through exposing themselves to Sports that require them to go into caloric deficits. I've seen it with many many people And you talked to Jonathan as well Jonathan irisari if we be bodybuilder. He faced the same issues You cannot get in tip-top shape on a vegan diet now. He's back on eating fish and meat I've ate some sushi with him a couple of days ago and do it He gained 10 kilograms in a couple of weeks. It's an insane how fast his body recovers. Yeah Yeah, yeah, good point. I also had the same point in my journey when I realized I'm taking in like 15 different supplements at the same time And when I was on the vegan diet, I was like, yeah, you're supposed to do that You know, I want to do it, right? But then when I quit I looked at my supplements and was dude It was like waking up from a dream My cow's diet was supposed to be optimal if I need to take like iodine zinc p12 omega-3 vitamin D I cannot even count for everything like I had like everything down like 15 different nutritional supplements a day Like most crazy dude Yeah, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. I had the same see that's the point If you want to supplement there's nothing wrong with supplementation, you know For anybody that is watching this and thinks i'm coming from this natural perspective, right? Don't touch supplements. It has to be natural. No, no, no That's not what we're talking about here. It is. All right. If you want to use a supplement as an enhancement or as an supplement, right? It is a supplement indeed But when you start using a supplement As a replacement This is where you truly have to question your diet in the vegan diet by default You have to supplement with b12. That is something that we Know nowadays for a fact, right 10 years back. Nobody knew about this now People are speaking out about it the plant-based doctors that you need to supplement dha and epa as well and possibly d3 And possibly iodine and possibly such and such the list never ends And the risk is really really high that there could be certain vitamin mineral that we do not know about yet Nutritional science is very very young people You have to take that into account nutritional science So young that there is still a possibility for a discovery of an unfound unknown nutrient And if you find out about something that has been in meat all along and you've been missing out on it just because you followed Authority x y z that told you it is totally right to eat plants only then you're in a world of suffering And I say that this could be the reason why so many people do suffer because we just do not understand What is really in animal foods? Good point. Yeah, you see especially if you watch like for example raw alignment her comments And people are like commenting like what is in fish that you need? You know what needed, you know, I mean Like isn't there exactly what you say and what I also think about is genetic differences because I talked with victor from the youtube channel homegrown big about that about the different genetics And of course, for example, if you don't have the bco1 gene that converts beta carotene into vitamin a You could possibly just take a vitamin a supplement But then again, how do you know that this vitamin a then absorbed properly and how do you know what is also in the supplement? You don't know at the end of the day Exactly. Yeah, that's the whole point man. You are trying to reinvent what is already given to you But by mother nature so to speak I talked about this before you're trying to reinvent the fish right with supplements Your supplement the iodine protein powders dha epa vitamin d3 just to replicate sushi That's what you're trying to do here And you do not know what else is to be found in sushi Completely aside of it that sushi in this case is a whole food and a supplement will never be that the supplement As I said before is just a replacement or it's not a replacement But is an additive at best, right? And therefore yeah, man with raw linemen It is absolutely insane how the people react now because I've been in contact with alize before right for the past What is it? I believe one and a half years or so i've been in touch with her and I saw her struggles people like to blame her now again That she was raw vegan Guys she was raw vegan for half a year or so after that she already started eating cooked foods And the last year I know it for a fact because I tried to help her out with plant-based options She was on a higher protein higher fat diet and she used chronometer as well. Wow big surprise Right, so she had a pretty balanced plant-based diet for the last year She tried to fix it. It didn't work at all. Yeah But did she send her poop to goji man bobi? I think that's the biggest issue man. I think goji man by now. Yes At least the shrine of poop at home where he Yeah prays to the vegan gods for the recovery of the ex vegans Yeah, I mean as you said, I think his intentions are really good I think everyone comes from a good place, you know Is a good guy, but as you said like if you never did like performance sports or something You don't know what what, you know, you don't really know what nutrition can do to you You know, like if he would do like bodybuilding and stuff I guess he would also have a lot of issues especially with his gut, man Like chickpeas beans. Yeah, of course here's your gut apart Absolutely, man. You cannot have the best of both worlds, right? It's either you're gonna be okay Maybe okay on a vegan diet, but you're gonna underperform You're not going to be able to hit the gym hard You're not going to be able to do any sport on a higher level That's one option or you choose to eat more protein rich Foods and then you're gonna wreck your digestion. So pick and choose, right? It is not suitable for sport performance. This is why we do not see any athletes being On the top level of their spot on a vegan diet We do not have that and again when people like to point out to those vegan athletes Quote-unquote see what the diet does to them long term or even short term in certain cases And on that note if you want to list Nate Diaz I hear that all the time on my channel, but Nate Diaz is vegan now He's not he's a pescetarian at best. So Nate Diaz the Diaz brothers. They're eating fish, right? So they're not vegan either Anyways, you cannot have it both ways It's pretty much impossible because in order to get sufficient calories sufficient proteins. You will overeat all of those Gut-triggering foods anti-nutrients lectin salicylates oxalates the list goes on and on and on the vegan diet It's not suitable for athletes at all Yeah, it's super interesting What do you think about people that are kind of thriving since like 10 years on a vegan diet or five years plus because I still see them sometimes Take an example Like for example, I have like That's a good example my friend of mine. I don't know to a hundred percent if he's like still vegan But he was like vegan for five years. He had no issues till then But then as you said if you don't do my bodybuilding and stuff You'd never know if you're already already deteriorating. You don't know. It's a good point Yeah, see the things this man. I knew a five-year-old vegan as well Actually, he lives here in Thailand. Good friend of mine from Australia And he claimed to feel absolutely fine, right? Absolutely fine. He does all right on the vegan diet. No worries. No problems I said, okay Why don't you challenge your belief system and you just try it out, right? But up to you just give it a go if you want to he got really curious because he saw my shift So he said, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna try it out. I'm gonna try some sushi. I'm gonna try some eggs Why not? After two or three days, he still didn't feel much, right? And he was almost ready to drop the experiment He stopped for a while, but then somehow he felt I need to try it out again So he gave himself one month of experimentation back and forth trying certain foods getting himself Essentially comfortable with the idea because don't get it twisted. The psychology plays a huge role in this If the mind still believes that veganism is the way to go the body will react in a strange way that can happen Anyways, one month of honest experimentation Now the guy can never go back again, man He sees it now man. He's like wow. I didn't know that I couldn't perform on this level He tried the eggs tried the fish didn't really do it for him But once he reintroduced beef and chicken out of a sudden his body just palm went into High performance mode for the lack of better words He feels rejuvenated and feels back to his old self that he completely forgot about so therefore when people say i'm thriving Man, I thought i'm thriving too until I reintroduced the animal products Same goes for my little sister. She was vegan for three years She would always tell me I feel super. All right. I don't need anything One egg later And she couldn't go back again. She said once you go egg, you never go back Fine. Yeah, um also anecdotal story from my side. Um, I did no fab just for fun Sometimes I I also did it in the past and I was not vegan So back in the day, it's no but for fun. Yeah for fun. This one like my my energy, you know my My my state that I feel like I feel like more wired when I do like no fab But anyway, I didn't like no fact back back in the days and I was in a meat-based diet I was able to do it for like two weeks three weeks max And then I did it when I was vegan and like like day 78 came And I had no desire to masturbate. I was like, dude, something is wrong And then I masturbated just to see if uh, if I it's still functioning, you know I was like afraid and I masturbated like, okay Okay, nothing happened. Like I was was not bad But not as intense as before and even the orgasm was not that intense, you know, like people don't talk about that But dude, something with my libido also happened man. It was weird weird Yeah 100% see that's very interesting because people they always like to say as well Go check your blood test. You will see everything's fine here. Check my 10 year old blood test vegan blood results, whatever Thing is this I went to the doctor's Check my blood my testosterone levels were okay, right mid-range totally normal But my libido dude was non-existent My libido was non-existent even though my testosterone levels my blood levels were okay The libido has nothing to do with only testosterone, right? testosterone is one Factor don't get me wrong But there are other factors as well if your body is in a state of malnourishment Of course, you won't get aroused and your body won't like to reproduce in that state First and foremost it wants to get nutrition before it starts procreating, right? That's just what it is and therefore all of those practices such as no fab Fasting cold showers all of those things Originally, they come from a spiritual context the ascets back in the day the hindus the buddhas They experimented with those things and the vegan or vegetarian diet played a huge role because people you have to take into account You can develop the spirit or the body but not simultaneously Sometimes it is better to focus on one aspect if you focus on spiritual development It is a good idea to stay away from the physical pleasures, right from the pleasures of the flesh if you If you abstain from sexual practices such as masturbation or sex in general If you abstain from eating nourishing foods that will nourish your physical body. Yes, you can get those Spiritual insights, but this is what the vegan diet is. It is the malnourishing practice On purpose when you're fasting you're malnourishing your body, right? You're going against your monkey nature if you will your body wants to eat wants to piss wants to fuck Wants to shit very primitive, right? And your mind on the other hand you could even say we are god consciousness in animal bodies Right and now it is up to you. What do you want to develop? Don't get it twisted every time you concentrate and you focus on to development of your god consciousness I know it sounds a bit woo, but you have to abstain from The physical and this is where those practices kick in but again, don't get it twisted veganism is a fasting practice Even with my background being misodonian. We fast twice per year. It is religious I'm not religious by any means, but this is what people have been doing For eastern and for christmas. They go vegan. They fast out the body. They focus on the spiritual aspect Before those holidays, but it is not something you can maintain not at all. Don't get it twisted. This is not the nourishing diet That's a very good point like I did once meditation retreat and I will probably go back this summer Perhaps you have heard of like the vipassana meditation retreat Sure Yeah, exactly like for people listening is a 10 day retreat you go there you meditate for 12 hours a day You don't talk to anyone and you don't look anyone in the eyes Like you really develop your spirit over there and they're also they don't serve me. They say they serve a vegetarian diet Right, yeah, of course man because again, you know if you use it for those spiritual practices It has its place Everything has its place. That is what vegan abolitionists don't understand the vegan diet has its place Right use it as a fasting practice use it for spiritual purposes temporarily The carnival diet has its place even the omnivore diet has its place All of those things are different tools in the toolbox But once we get into the realm of abolition once we get into this realm of dogma And in this realm of one size fits all we have a huge problem here Because if the vegan approach would be laid back, you know, just a liberal approach to sharing an idea And do it or don't then we wouldn't have a problem then We wouldn't have this phenomena of x vegans because you're not going to find a huge x omnivore movement That's not going to be the case Yeah, nobody will start talking shit about the omnivore diet. Oh my god, it wrecked my no, no, no, no You know, you have people that start out with bodybuilding diets You have people that start out with vegan diets, whatever Everything should stay a choice. This is the huge issue that we have nowadays and this is why people like us Speak out about this because this becomes the dogma which is introduced into our daily politics nowadays Pretty soon if this narrative continues, we will have a world where meat is murder The first step here is the taxation of meat pretty soon Maybe in the next couple of years meat will be twice the price and then at some point it will become illegal Especially once we have the lab grown meat because vegans already say If we do not have to Why do it right and once you have a valid replacement? And on that note, I do not believe that lab grown meat is a valid replacement But when it gets approved as a valid replacement People will have no excuse quote-unquote to eat meat and then there you go if you keep promoting this plan based agenda We will find ourselves in a world where we will be forced to eat plan foods and lab grown meat And I personally do not want to live in such a world Yeah, it's scary to think about when I was in my vegan dogma I thought that yeah, I know more meat would be a good world, you know But how you frame it and now also i'm like, do you know that's scary? If everybody's like anxious or like almost everybody's anxious and depressed and stuff. It's super easy to manipulate us Yeah, of course. I mean look at this right when I was vegan and I became anxious and depressed That was last year. I thought to myself. Okay What are my options here? So first I modified my diet didn't work. I was like, okay What else is there? Maybe some supplementation didn't work either. Okay, so what am I left with now? I was left with anti-depressants. I didn't take them. Thank god But I thought the only option to fix my issues would be anti-depressants. What else is left, right? Nothing and now imagine a world as I said Just this dystopian future, right where we have lab-grown meat and plant-based options Everybody grows up like that and pretty much everybody develops psychological mental issues So what do you do? You run to the pharmacy you run to the doctor to the authorities and you get prescribed and anti-depressants Right, what else is left because in your world then you won't have the option to try animal foods In this reality in 2019. I still had the option to try an egg tried the egg Boom depression gone straight away. Yeah, I Rather eat some scrambled eggs than taking Xanax, right? That's just me. I don't know about you Charles But yeah, that is the future that we could possibly face and if you look into The food companies the food producers and you look into the pharmaceutical industry Then you will see the people That are producing those GMO crops that we will soon be eating Those are the same companies that produce the anti-depressants So you do the math follow the money and you will find out Just that easy and that is not a conspiracy. That is the truth Scary to think about like just yesterday also I was in my bed lying in my bed and thinking about all the facts vegan Like to the people that make like vegan videos also other people on youtube They spit out these facts like yeah, if you're on a vegan diet, it's so much better for the environment But then again, I'm asking myself who Talks about these facts and how do you know these facts are true just because it's on a website doesn't mean it's like true You know what I mean? Like I became a huge skeptic right now. Yeah Now and you should be a huge skeptic because if you look into the conspiracy Acts quote-unquote right when Carl Spurs he came out. I'm paraphrasing here. I don't have the exact numbers I believe they said co2 emissions From cow burps would have been 81 percent some outrageously high number, right? Then they got debunked pretty quickly and on their homepage. They had to lower that number to I believe 51 percent, right? So it was still the majority of co2 emissions. They said it is 51 percent You want to google the number? So what is it? Yeah, I'm just sharing it on facebook right now. Yeah, all right. Cool. Go on and then in the end They had to lower the numbers again. I don't know what the number is right now. I believe 14 percent Of co2 emissions is caused by cows allegedly So as you can see that number of 81 percent was absolutely false. It was absolute misinformation Propaganda by animal activists and it is promoted by huge names, right? Leonardo DiCaprio James Cameron even our Schwarzenegger jumped on board right less meat less heat and they promote this agenda But if you look into the numbers, you will see that it is absolutely falsified But what they do is they spool the message and then you have to do the debunking afterwards, right? And the numbers are already out there how many people turned vegan because of conspiracy, right? And the vegans keep on listing that propaganda video over and over again. Watch earthlings Watch conspiracy watch dominion and what knows right and galbo people switch to the vegan diet And after a while they face the consequences. But this is the big issue here 80 to 90 percent of people that are vegan right now will drop in the future I like to say every now vegan Is a future x vegan, right? And everybody that decides to stay on that diet will face the consequences And I don't know if we will see any long-term beings. I hope not for their own health But anyways the issue is that we have more people coming into the movement than dropping out at the moment And therefore the numbers are allegedly rising and you have of course this artificial push behind it The vegan plan based options. They are storming the supermarkets And therefore there is this idea sold to you the vegan movement is rising They're not taken into account that all of those people will drop out sooner or later It's a very very dangerous move and if we keep on going like this as I said We are facing issues of the lack of proper nutrition in the near future Good points. Yeah, I see the same with meat and studies about meat Like vegans will say yeah eating meat increases your risk of getting cancer by so much percent But then if you really look into it on the first hand, it's like processed meat not like Loma red meat and then also I guess the cancer risk raises from like five to six percent The I guess the absolute cancer risk you call it and then they say yeah, it raises like 20 percent Yeah, sure from five to six percent. I guess it's like 20 percent or something But it's not 20 percent absolute, you know what I mean No, this is why I talked to Bart Kay recently And he elaborated about the exact mechanics behind those studies is absolutely laughable You know if we look into those food questionnaires, for example the Adventist church, right the vegan Adventist They like to get listed quite a bit if you look into this man This food questionnaire every couple of months or so you have to write down what you've been eating Yeah, guess what people those people can't remember what they've been eating exactly and by default people Lie about their food choices. This is just what happens. You get a multiply choice questionnaire how many barbecue chicken wings have you been eating over the last month and you have to put in an amount measured in cups Who the hell knows who the hell knows how many chicken wings you've been eating in cups So write down two or three or five or whatever the hell Those questionnaires, they cannot be an accurate reflection of reality It's impossible and therefore this is not science Therefore if we look into this type of science, we look into epidemiology Those are not valid forms. We can use them right to see Where it might be possibly headed what might possibly have an impact But you cannot use it as a definitive fact and the vegan community likes to lay out those Studies as definitive facts. This is ridiculous. This is not proper science Those are anecdotes Anecdotes that have been monitored by a certain group if we talk about the adventist Those people have a huge share in the food company Sanitarium sanitarium is a grain producer. They are selling plant-based food all over the globe So they have a profit margin here, right? They want to make money. So does anybody else look into it It is not hard to debunk. Therefore you cannot list those Studies as definitive scientific evidence. The vegans on the other hand like to do that vegans such as vegan gains They like to list those studies. Meanwhile, they have absolutely no value in reality Yeah, also then you see uh Stuff like IGF one like yeah IGF one increases risk of cancer I mean, it's just a correlation But they will just take that concept that one correlation and tear it apart in so many videos I mean I did the same when I was vegan I totally understand but nobody really looks into the mechanics and nutrition is not black It's not that black and white. It's so much more nuanced. It's crazy to think about of course Yeah, of course again, you know those Studies looking to the china study for example, what they've been doing is they took a casein protein and isolate And fed that to rats and those rats developed cancer Wow, great great experiment, right? Perfect setup I didn't know that if you feed a protein isolate rats that they could potentially get sick How does that translate to humans that are eating cheese? Just because you have a certain amount of that protein in cheese. It says nothing about dairy as such zero Correlation is not causation. It's just that symbol. Yes. Yes. You also talked about the dogma So what i'm curious about because you're a pretty public person in that niche of veganism What happened after you talked publicly about like eating an egg? What happened? I mean, okay first and foremost, I have to say it was my own fault If you will that I said the mushroom made me eat an egg, right? So it was a techy title there So therefore I was easy for the haters to say that I Just took psychedelics and it has nothing to do with an intelligent rational decision, right? But either way, nevertheless, let's take that aside After me eating an egg as I said, I would get all the counter arguments of veganism in the book You didn't do it, right? fasted Ah, what else? Yeah, you're just a fucking idiot go to goji man And all of that. So therefore what you see is it's a pattern here, man It is very very similar to Scientology in that sense. I want to make a video called Veganism is the new Scientology because if you see people Stepping out of Scientology, they get the same backlash. They need to be discredited their characters need to be assassinated They need to be exposed As frauds and the same is happening in the vegan community, right? You cannot be a credible person It cannot be that the vegan diet truly didn't work for you all of your issues will get ridiculed You will be completely ridiculed as an idiot that did everything wrong Every possible Scenario that you stepped into was wrong. You were a piss drinker you fasted You were all vegan. You have orthorexia. You take steroids. You take drugs and whatnot You will get that character as Assisted if you try to step out of this religion and the religion it is because otherwise they wouldn't need those practices I'm on the carnival diet right now and I can tell you if I decide to eat broccoli tomorrow I will get no hate from the carnival community No chance in hell. They will say nothing. I don't expect any backlash The vegan community on the other hand you will get destroyed right assassinated or at least they will try to do so Yeah, funny you mentioned Scientology had the same thought to make a video that compares Scientology to veganism And exactly yesterday I recorded a video and the title I will use would be something like brainwashing techniques veganism uses that the Illuminati are jealous of like Yeah, that's a good title Yeah, it's funny But exactly the same thing I thought about because I watched that the interview from like Joe Rogan and this guy from like Scientology His name was I guess miss cleavage something like that and you also said as soon as you Yeah, exactly. Exactly And and then he um He came out of the of the of the of the cult and he also said as soon as the cult of the cult They frame you as the bad guy. Yeah, it has been a bad guy all time along. That's the reason why he left, you know And that's so easy, you know, I was always a bad guy. So that's what why he left. Oh good, dude Yeah, it's easy. It's funny how our human beings rationalize their beliefs They also find it funny your your life chat sometimes the the conspiracy theories they pull out of their ass man It's so funny. It's crazy Yeah, of course, yeah nowadays I get blamed and shamed that I'm funded by the Dairy industry by the egg industry and whatnot. It's pretty hilarious on that note If the dairy egg or meat industry is watching please sponsor me. I'm done Yeah, that would make my life much much easier and cheaper. So I'm absolutely open for that Thank you very much But yeah, it's absolutely crazy The thing is now that you see so many people stepping out of veganism so many eggs vegans the vegans Say that all of those are essentially shields It is a conspiracy. They say I saw a video of the vegans zombie yesterday And he said this is a conspiracy. This cannot be true. They cannot believe it, right? They cannot rationalize it. This cannot be true. We are here as vegans We are thriving and all of those eggs vegans. They must be shells. They're paid off by somebody They're collecting checks behind the scenes. Yeah After what? Yeah, I have this funny joke like people sometimes people think that the Illuminati exist and they're like controlling us You know and then I say I hope they exist because at least someone would have a plan for us You know, I hope someone has a plan because I have no plan for my for myself. You know what I mean At least I mean I have a plan for my life But I don't like I don't have not figured out everything I have no idea what the meaning of life is no idea, you know, so if the Illuminati would exist at least someone would have a plan for us Yeah, this was Terence McKenna. This is what Terence McKenna talked about He said there's so many conspiracy theories out there. People are conspiring. He's in charge. She's in charge that shadow government But he said what is scarier than that Is nobody is in charge That is a much scarier thought. What if nobody is in charge, right? We're on the spinning ball in the middle of nowhere. Maybe it's flat. I don't know and nobody is in charge Right. Nobody controls shit. Everybody just tries To cope with this existence and nobody knows what it is. That is a much scarier thought for people Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned that because I I thought I have sometimes is Sometimes I think like, okay, if someone would come come into my room after that podcast and tell me dude It's really a simulation. You were right. Life is just a simulation and now you can live your life But just so you know, it's it's true. I would not be that surprised because when I watch When I look at the world right now, especially veganism is funny people get triggered because of weird stuff They have all these conspiracy theories. There's so much in their head And then you see like donald trump doing his obnoxious thing and getting elected as president, you know And then you see this dude on youtube, you know, like in veganism and then like his cold bobby's perspective I see him on youtube and then I ask him for a podcast and with him in a podcast and then frank yang jumps in and You know, like sometimes I feel like dude, if it's a really simulation, I wouldn't be that surprised Sometimes life is so funny and you cannot predict it. It's I don't know what to say man Now 100% I mean it is highly likely that is something that even even the scientists right vegans will love this Even the scientists the authorities they agree upon that it could be a simulation It's not so outlandish not so outrageous if you look at what we are doing right now as a species We are creating technology, right? So therefore how hard is it to believe that at some point we will have a simulation that is Just identical in terms of graphics, right right now. I don't even know I'm not into gaming anymore I haven't played a game in the last five years or so the last game that I played was gta 5, right? And gta 5 back in the day was pretty realistic of course nothing like real world, but it is A simulation so hence fast forward maybe in 10 years Maybe in 20 but at least in 100 years we will have a game It will be just as realistic and this is this one And once that point is achieved the question of course becomes Has this been done before and the answer is I believe Absolutely. Yes It is possible that we are the first ones to do so But it would be not surprising if it would be the other way around and if it is the other way around How often has it been replicated? So then it could be that we adjust a simulation in a simulation in a simulation in a simulation But the thing is this Charles, you know, I asked myself that question I believe two or three years ago. I was traveling the world and I was still a bit Suppressed in that sense. I still had many many old belief systems that I essentially developed growing up in Europe And I couldn't really let go of those belief systems And then I really started living life telling myself. It's a simulation after all man, you know It's a simulation after all just live this life as if it would be a game And you're going to be much much happier and turns out I was much much happier after that for sure Dude, it's funny you mentioned that I have this running gag with my best friend One of my best friends we tell ourselves that our life is basically like grand theft auto and then we remind ourselves Hey, dude, let's play some gta. Let's play some gta Because a good example where you can use that is today I will like record a sales video for my coaching and I never recorded a sales video and in my head I'm like, oh, it's gonna be weird You know what are my friends gonna think as soon as they see like perhaps a facebook out of mine But then my friend was like, dude, let's play gda just simulation. Fuck it. Let's just like record a sales video Let's go for it. You never know what happens, you know, like you also know, um, jet McKenna. He says exactly the same or less Mm-hmm Yeah, jet McKenna is pretty much the only book that you will ever have to read in terms of spirituality I would say I love to dive deep into this and I think we're gonna Spare a little bit of this for the frank yang podcast because this one we will really dive into this topic But for anybody listening check out jet McKenna spiritual enlightenment because it's literally the only book on spirituality that you have to read Or if you choose to read any other spiritual books after that do so but read them after that Because it will reset your mind of what to expect of spirituality quote unquote Yeah, I first read a cartouli and then I've read jet McKenna which was funny But I guess the other way around will be even better It's like also like veganism and omnivore if you are first like vegan and then omnivore You need to be omnivore first and see what you miss and then Uh, you can go we can go back But it's it's a super cool book and I'm also happy that I was I was able to like introduce you to frank Because frank is a really special human being like if you know if you see him in real life He told me like He sees like he's enlightened. He talks about him like half enlightened You know like half natty in like bodybuilding terms He's like half enlightened and if you see him Do the people he pulls off these weird things in real life I'm like dude in which mind space he is is he like he's in a totally other realm sometimes But they're really cool dude. I'm really looking forward for that So yeah, the scholars channel quite late Oh, just one thing. I discovered this channel quite late. I think One and a half years ago or so and since then I definitely fell up with this work I would say that it's the only channel that I Watched on regular when he uploads. He doesn't upload much And I'm really really wondering why he doesn't reach more people He's been on youtube for 10 years or so and he has only what 150,000 subscribers I'm not too sure. Yeah, I would expect his channel to be in the millions, man It is absolutely beautiful artistic work and I think that he did singlehandedly the best job on portraying veganism and spirituality Even though I hate this term in a in such a beautiful fashion Absolute piece of art in his late videos amazing amazing stuff. Yeah I guess people I guess he's not he's not mainstream enough He's a little bit too weird for the mainstream. So that's the reason why he doesn't have There are any subscribers, I guess That could be. Yeah, people really like to return to a page such as six pack shortcuts They want to know what they're getting and with Frankie and you do not know they cannot put their finger on it Yeah, that might be the reason and he's he's super fun in real life as well Like how when you see his videos is pretty much that in real life like Like yeah, I'm planning to to go with him perhaps to taiwan this year So perhaps if you can make make it to Thailand if you're still there I will let him know so perhaps you can take like a little fly down there A little detail. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sounds good. He's really a fun guy So what I want to ask you also is um, how does your nutrition look like right now? Are you still experimenting or did you find like a way for you that works? Hmm I say that everything comes periodically the biggest thing that people are missing out on I'm gonna make a bold claim now I think that the biggest thing that people are missing out on is seasonal eating So people like to jump on board and do Vegan they like to do carnivore They like to stick with one thing and they try to find something that they can follow for the rest of their life But I don't think this is how life works If you look into natural environments back in the day, we've would eat some fruit It's not impossible to eat fruit But that doesn't mean you have to become a fruitarian So maybe in the summer months, you would have some fruit in the winter months You might eat something preserved something pickled right some dried smoked meats Maybe you would hunt in the spring months so on and so forth So everything comes and goes life is seasonal right and you yourself right now The character that you are right now that will change and you're not the same person that you've been yesterday Or 10 years ago Everything comes and goes and therefore right now to cut a little bit shorter again before I go into an epic rant Yes, I'm eating the carnivore diet But the reason is that I want to reset my insulin sensitivity. That's the only reason I've been eating carbohydrates basically for four years. Yes, I know the vegan diet has protein and has fats I get it but by default you're always ingesting carbs It is impossible to be zero carb on a vegan diet Even if you want to do a vegan keto, I just checked it out out of interest Dude, if you're eating peanuts you get 10 to 20 carbs and just through those nuts It is impossible to go zero carb and therefore you're constantly spiking your insulin and that is obviously taxing your pancreas So that is not a healthy state to be in either Therefore vegans by default will try out fasting and this is where they feel so good Right again on that note This is why vegans fast because they want to stay away from all the fiber and all of those carbs They want to get into ketosis naturally. That is a natural state to be in as well anyways, right now ketogenic carnivore diet just not as an experiment so much but more as a reset I am looking forward to the reintroduction of carbohydrates. However, I personally for myself Do not want to live in a world where I cannot have some honey Honey was something that I missed out on for four years being vegan and yeah I'm not gonna give that away anytime soon. So therefore I said a couple of weeks carnivore experiment and pretty soon I'm gonna jump back to The more primal approach Low carb though because low carb always worked for me Yeah, yeah, so you also plan to get your muscle mass back or what's your plan then? Yeah, absolutely. So still recovering somewhat of the injuries, but I definitely want to Get into bodybuilding again and pack on some serious mass here For sure definitely get back into bodybuilding and absolutely display that the results are not comparable Because again, as I said many many times people can't hear it anymore. I believe but I said it before the vegan diet Yes, you can build muscle, but it's not as effective. It's that simple Plant proteins do not come in those beneficial amino acid ratios You can food combine you can do this and that every time you food combine you're combining carbohydrate rich foods Which mess up your insulin sensitivity? Which mess up your body composition mess up your overall macro balance You cannot achieve the same goals on a vegan diet If you want to mimic the results, then you find yourself in a world of heavy supplementation and then you're compromising health again. So therefore, however, you want to do it vegan You are compromising either health or strength or aesthetics. It's never the same result So therefore, yes, I want to get back to bodybuilding and bring myself back into tip-top shape Yeah, very good points But what people never talk about is if you for example get 100 grams of protein through beans You also get a lot of phytic acid and anti nutrients And then also if you get phytic acid into your guts it inhibits the absorption of protein to a certain degree So you could get 100 grams of protein through beans in your mouth But you will not absorb 100 grams. It's not the same thing And even the phytic acid you get with the beans will also inhibit the absorption of further protein You'll get on the vegan diet and minerals of course, so absolutely. You cannot compare it. Yeah Absolutely. Yeah, especially especially minerals and nutrients That is something that you will absolutely compromise while suggesting beans It is craziness and those are always those numbers that people like to put out, you know Yeah, but i'm getting all the protein. I'm getting all the micronutrients Listen, I went on to an experiment just to see how I will feel, right? I know nowadays it is all an total evidence and nobody cares about how you feel, right? Freely the banana girl said it as well. I don't care how you feel. You have to stay vegan. Okay, but I felt horrible on the vegan diet. Meanwhile, I was hitting all my macros and micros, right? Everything was perfect on chronometer. I can show those things if there is any interest And i'm sure there is but i'm sure there will be somebody debunking it again Anyways, then I went on to an animal-based approach and On purpose after a while. I ate less than I need. I wasn't hitting my micro levels anymore at all I even went on lower protein lower carbs lower everything just to see how I will feel and guess what? I'm still feeling a thousand times better than on the vegan diet. So therefore just because chronometer Tells you there is such and such in one food group doesn't mean that you will absorb it Not at all if you look into a rock a rock is minerals that rock will have plenty of minerals, right? Try eating rocks. See what happens Just because those nutrients are in a food group Doesn't mean your body is able to absorb it at all Good. Yeah. Yeah, totally true. Totally true also regarding bodybuilding Um, I was before I came off the vegan diet. I was also thinking about do I want to go back to bodybuilding? Yes, or no and I made the decision even if I would compromise my health for a couple of years by eating more protein Eating more animal products. Perhaps I would compromise it. I don't know yet About I told myself dude I totally want to go back into it because if you're a young guy in your 20s in your 30s You should be out there and like be like and how you said it before I guess you said developing the the physical developing the flesh And then you can develop the spirit when you yeah, exactly Then you can develop the spirit also later You can go into a cave and meditate later on or perhaps once a year or something like that But if you look for example into the longevity diet, I guess you also know about the long go Sure. Yeah Talks about the low protein diet to like increase your your lifespan and it it makes sense. I write it But in my head, I'm like dude. I just want to gain some muscle mass eat high protein till I'm like 35 40 and then I can I can be on a perhaps more plant-based diet and be low protein and just chill a little bit more But to lose my libido and to just like, you know, like be one of these Don't know how to call it these guys with low libido and I don't go to the gym anymore And I'm all scared and stuff. It's not worth it in my 20s. Do it on the furries as well Yeah, see the thing is this for people listening, you know, it might sound to them Yeah, you just meet hats. You just want to lift weights. You just want gains. It has nothing to do with health listen You have to take into account that if the protein that you're eating a plant-based protein Doesn't fuel your muscle mass That means that there is a problem with that protein quality Because think about it. If you eat the same amount of protein Plant-based and meat-based meat-based. You're getting better muscle results That means that this protein is not efficient at fueling your body Protein is not only needed for muscle building So that means that that protein is not Recovering your skin your hair your teeth your organs That protein is mediocre. So take that into account right when you're talking about protein quality vegan muscle building scenarios That is a huge issue here. Another thing is Yes, if you eat lower protein, maybe possibly there are some signs out there. It could be better for longevity There is this group of people and unfortunately, I forgot the name. They have a certain label about What they try to do is extend their life no matter what so what they do is they eat in a supremely supremely low caloric deficit They sleep as much as they can and they move as little as possible So they basically act like turtles right just like turtles just sitting around not doing anything And with that obviously the metabolic rate Drops down tremendously with that theoretically. They should extend their life up to 20 more years Okay, congratulations Now you're going to be 120 years and all you did is lay in bed And not eat and not fuck the congratulations. What kind of life is that then so therefore? Longevity has to be in proportion to Joy in life it has to be in proportion to quality of life If you're missing out on life and you're focusing on what's going to happen when you're 70 or 80 Then you just stepped into another trap the trap of everybody basically who's living in this western world And who's following the red race you are planning about doing holidays When you are retired That's the same mindset Right meanwhile, you are out now charles me myself included. We're traveling the world. You are enjoying life right now You're experiencing life right now Man everything has a risk in life if you want to do cool shit. Hey shit can happen to you I was riding the race bike 300 kilometers per hour on the german autobahn Could have died plenty of times But I loved it and I can tell you even if I would have died I would have died happy Those are the moments that make life enjoyable Bungie jumping parachuting and whatnot all of those things have risks, of course It is a risk to benefit ratio that has to be in check So therefore are there certain practices that can extend life in the end To give the view or something that they can learn here in the end It comes down to fasting as long as you have some sort of fasting practice in your daily life Guess what you're going to extend your life. Is that intermittent fasting? Is that periodical fasting? Is that a plan-based diet? once or twice per year all of those things Everplace and that's about it. Yeah, exactly. That's the same thing. I told myself right now I eat like around 150 to 160 grams of protein And I was also asking myself It's perhaps not the best thing If I don't too intermittent fasting because they talk about mTOR mTOR could decrease your life span stuff like that All right, good. I just fast like 14 hours a day do like intermittent fasting I have like the 20 80 principle that still build muscle and perhaps this science is not this study These studies are not true. Perhaps you don't increase your lifespan by fasting 14 to 16 hours a day But at least it's a little habit I can implement into my life and then I don't need to worry too much about it Yeah, absolutely, man You have to do something that is practical for you and something that you feel the benefit of so therefore I see with the science at hand sure fasting has certain benefits But you can mimic fasting as well Such as valta longa does or even with a ketogenic diet in the end a ketogenic diet is a fasting mimicking diet as well Because if you're in a fasting state, you didn't eat anything Guess what you want to live off your saturated fats and your proteins so muscle tissue and fatty tissue So you can go ketogenic you can eat muscle tissue and fatty tissue and you replicate the same state The different approaches to the same thing choose one Go for it. Have fun with it. That is what this is about Yeah, I remember when I had the most anxiety in my life like 2017 I tried to follow to follow this longevity diet pretty hardcore because I was afraid of everything I was like I was this turtle person to be honest like I was just like Tied to sleep as much as possible. I just was weird like I had so much anxiety I rationalized that this was a good way for me to live and now I kind of woke up from the dream like dude, man No way, dude. No way. What is good, you know, no way It's interesting how you can step into those belief systems when I was robbing fruitarian and there was heavily Into shamanism and psychedelics and again spirituality. I found myself in the end living in the amazon jungle I went out there, right? I went down there and really did the fruitarian experience if you will I lived only of bananas coconuts local fruits in the jungle and I was brewing my own ayahuasca I was 60 kilograms, right? I completely slimmed down and I thought this is what life is going to be I'm just going to sit there like an outcast. I will have nothing to do with the modern day civilization anymore Get away from the western world. Just be by myself and live off the fruit It is easy to get into those belief systems once nutritional deficiencies kick in And this is what I see with many vegans reaching out to me right now They are in that mindset in that dogmatic belief system Paired with nutritional deficiencies and they truly believe what they are saying is the truth You cannot convince those people. They will have to face the issues on their own Until then we can only take it with humor and try to help those people with interviews such as this Exactly, exactly. I compare also anxiety and this Mental illness or nutritional deficiencies like a demon like it it takes on your mind And if infiltrates your mind, it's like a parasite and you cannot come out of it I mean super you kind of need to face a crisis or you need something from the outside Otherwise you cannot come out of it alone. It's it's pretty difficult That is a great point. Yeah, absolutely. And on top of that, you have this vegan echo chamber, right? Where they reaffirm their own belief systems that is very very dangerous Because they're all suffering but nobody offers them a solution that is not vegan Again, if you're in the carnival community, for example And I was talking to some guys. I told them I don't really enjoy zero carp that much You know, I do it as a reset, but I really don't see this being applicable long term for me And they're like, yeah, no worries man. You know, why don't you try some carbs? Eat animal based see how that goes Great, they just recommended a plant right the plants are not the enemies of the carnival camp And the vegan diet on the other hand nobody will ever offer you a solution that is not plant based They're reaffirming their own little belief systems. The most extreme niche of this is of course the fruitarian and raw vegan community Where everybody's literally dying of nutritional deficiencies and they reaffirm each other's beliefs with detox. You're detoxing, right? You're still cleansing Meanwhile, people are suffering and they're wasting away precious lifetime. This is what we were talking about here You know, you want to live life when you step into those nutritional deficiencies by default You cannot live life to the fullest and a sad man if I look back to my last two years Four years vegan half of it Man, I was so malnourished that I wasted away life potential It's that simple and this is why I speak out about this, you know, people they wonder why do I speak out against veganism? It is because I really don't wish this to my worst enemies, man This is terrible. You find yourself in such a horrendous mind space. I was severely depressed Everything was shit. It wasn't living hell in the end. I don't know if you can relate to this But it was really so bad and I tried to make it work and convince myself that everything will be fine I wasted away my life in the end. I couldn't do martial arts anymore because I injured myself Over and over again, and I couldn't Fathom the strength to step into the ring anymore. I couldn't fathom the strength to step in the gym anymore The only motivation Out of that mind space was to stop doing what I was doing and start doing yoga This is where you see so many vegans being yoga teachers Because it's the only thing you can do, man. It is the only thing that is still essentially possible With your malnourished body Stretch lightly worship the sun god. Yeah, because you're nutritionally deficient, man Try some eggs and after that you're gonna Sing a completely different tune after that. I'm gonna see you in the gym again and you're gonna say thanks Is that simple? Yeah, you're gonna go out to clubs like meeting girls again, you know, like all the good stuff going to the gym Yeah, it's true. Yeah, you're gonna get a libido again. It's scary stuff. Yeah, it's scary Yeah, I mean talking about the living hell. I had one situation which was which was super scary I mean 2017 my anxiety was really severe and I got like hard palpitations Like my heart was skipping half a beat and then the next one was like stronger And I was so nervous and stressed out I felt every heartbeat and I also felt when my heart was like skipping a beat And then I got like in this in this vicious circle and once I swear I guess I had like six In a row like six like I was counting them after every like half a beat and the stronger beat. I was like, dude If it's over now, fuck dude, like why? Well, you know, why me? Why is why so early? But then nothing bad happened. I just had these heart palpitations But I was really afraid then I went home and I was super stressed and I was like, dude I either die like soon or perhaps like in the next five years and then I was like in this mental Like for one week I was convinced I will not reach like more than 30 years old I was planning my life what I want to do on one side It was good because I was thinking about a bigger picture of my life what I want to do But on the other side, it was weird. It was super weird Wow, and meanwhile you on the longevity died allegedly, right? Almost yeah, but I did it wrong. I guess I did it wrong. Go Jimin was on youtube back then So, I don't know man Probably yeah, now it's terrible. I had the same I had major heart issues The thing is I went to the doctors for that. I had my heart skipping a beat. I had the heart palpitations I had low blood pressure. That was insane. The regular blood pressure would be I believe 120 with 80 or something on those lines Right 120 to 60 should be normal. I went to the doctors here. My blood pressure was 50 to 30 Dude, I was dead. I was basically dead. I was getting dizzy. I tried everything, you know Don't get me wrong more salt magnesium minerals everything and I went to the doctor to get my heart checked out I was convinced that I had a heart attack Once I had something like a heart attack. I don't know what it was my heart started beating to that extent I got dizzy. I fell on the floor man I never talked about this is actually something that I completely forgot about happened last year I went to the gym I had an okay workout But I had two coffees to get me through the workout because I felt so weak right so you could blame it on the coffee Whatever, it was just two americanos Because I felt so weak on this diet. I was drinking heavily caffeinated drinks Went to the gym heart palpitation obviously continued got even worse and after the gym It just basically blacked out. I fell to the floor was laying there My heart was aching. I was convinced I had a heart attack Yeah, after that I went to the doctor got everything checked out and again the doctor couldn't find anything I got the e g the e m g the heart scan everything was monitored I was very very thankful that I didn't had a heart attack, right? But again, there was some sort of issue and then to provoke the vegans again. Yes I did a mushroom experience and the mushroom Told me to try an egg because there is severe damage with my heart even though the doctor couldn't find it Those are all right. Let's give it a shot right after a while once I start eating eggs All of those heart issues went away. I know it sounds crazy I get it man for people that have no experience with psychedelics I fully understand that this sounds absolutely outrageous But this is truly what happened after the reintroduction animal products recommended by the mushroom My heart issues went away straight away from one day to the other Dude, that's scary. How old were you back then like, you know, you know in your early 30s, right or 30s When that happened I was 30 29 30 something dude, that's scary. Yeah to be honest the vegan diet or sorry. Yeah. Want to say something? Now it's just that I want to add the crazy thing is that on the vegan diet I couldn't tolerate coffee anymore at all Zero tolerance if I would drink a regular coffee Again guys, don't get me wrong. If you want to debunk me and say, yeah, he was drinking three liters of monster energy drink This way he got a heart attack. No, no, no, no, no. It was two regular coffees Small americanos nothing special, right? If I would drink one coffee back in the day as a vegan man, the paranoia will take off a thousand folds I would get jittery anxious man. I would feel like I'm on crack or something This is how weak my body was nowadays when I drink coffee No big effect or normal, right? Maybe a little bit more aware a bit more awake and that's about it So caffeine sensitivity on the vegan diet Terrible terrible Dude, it's so fun. You mentioned that exactly the same happened to me exactly I was able back in days to drink like two to three coffees a day Exactly, I drank like one coffee and like in the beginning when I drank the coffee was I was like more like awake As you said, but exactly like three to four to five hours after drinking the coffee, dude My paranoia was there dude. I was like, dude, something will happen. Something bad. What if this happens? What if that happens? I do that was in a whole other headspace Weird, it's funny. You mentioned that now I recognize it. It's it's it's weird. Yeah, I guess there must be something I have Yeah, no, I have many friends and I always list my little sister as well because I mean I'm her big brother Right and if something happens to your family, obviously you get even more aware about this, you know I saw all of those symptoms that I had happening to myself. I saw it in my little sister as well She was always telling me how terribly paranoid she feels and if we would sit down Over a coffee to discuss our ailments, right as two vegans talking about their depressive manic episodes We would both get the same thing heart Puppetations the caffeine would trigger anxiety and yes, that is an attribute of caffeine That is commonly studied as well as far as I know that caffeine can trigger anxiety But the anxiety Originates from the nourishment and gets amplified by the coffee So therefore this is not surprising to me at all that you experience the same Yeah, yeah, by the way someone in the chat recognized you bobby Nice. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little bit earlier. No, but I love everybody. We had Hello, we had Yeah, I mean we can put this can I upload this on my channel as well Charles Yeah, sure people see it sure dude. Why not? I mean you talked about a lot of stuff You never talked about on your channel and it's really interesting to see another perspective of yours And there must be something there now that you talked about the calf coffee and everything So in my mind, I don't know I still don't know if still people are out there that can thrive on a vegan diet because there are people and I know They don't have issues like that But then again, I have my ex roommate He was not he was not anxious on the vegan diet But he had also like issues with his bowel movement like he had diarrhea and stuff like that So I guess perhaps everyone gets anxious, but I guess almost everyone gets something I'm not a hundred percent sure right now. Perhaps it's a brainwalk But what's your opinion you think everyone will get problems on a vegan diet or perhaps there are some specimen that can that can still like function We have to make one thing very very clear here. We as humans we can never claim to have the ultimate truth Right. So therefore could there be possibly Somebody out there that thrives on a vegan diet long term could it be Sure could be right could there be Bigfoot in the forest could be could there be aliens could be as well. That's actually highly likely I think it's more likely that there are aliens and there are thriving vegans But that's just my opinion If you yeah, really if you look at the vegans as I said before first and foremost We have a 90 drop out rate. So that alone should tell you pretty much all you need to know about vegans 90% will drop out and what about those long-term vegans if you look up long-term vegans on youtube You will see very very sick people What is it? What is it with those long-term vegans that would be convincing for anybody to try a vegan diet? I'll say there is none There is no evidence for anybody claiming that there are long-term vegans and thriving I get it on my channel a lot Annette Larkins I don't even know those other names Do you know any of those long-term vegans that always get listed? I know Annette Larkins is one Osborne is another one Dan the man the life regenerator and whatnot right those people always get listed Those people do not look healthy to me neither physically nor psychologically especially not psychologically I do not see healthy long-term vegans the people that claim to feel healthy right now They will face the issue sooner or later Man, it is pretty simple if you look into human evolution. Just look into this Check what we've been eating Check what has been given to us From our environment check what our bodies have adapted to And now compare what we've been eating to The recommendations of the vegan doctors. Let's take the daily dozen, right? Let's take it Flex seeds chia seeds all of those seeds are not meant to be eaten. That's just the fact Seeds are the products of the plant that are for Procreation of the plant that are for the propagation of that plant If you eat an apple for example, you spit out the seed that is a natural mechanism That is being followed by any animal here To replicate that plant the seeds are not meant to be eaten And this is why they come with heavy anti-nutrient loads. What else is there? You have quinoa and rice. Yeah, okay, you can get away with eating quinoa and rice Civilizations have been doing that recently the asians have been Thriving on rice. That's okay. You can have some of them fruits on the other hand all of those modern counterparts are man-made if you look at bananas, you see that bananas have no seeds anymore What does that mean? Those bananas are clones. They're sugar clones They have been bred to appeal to our senses. They have a 100 to 200 percent Sugar content compared to their wild counterparts. So therefore, okay Again, you have a food that you haven't evolved to eat. What else is there? You have some starches starches are fairly new right like the Potatoes starchy roots. What else is there? Nobody in nature would ever eat leafy greens To that extent as you can see it on the vegan diet. Those things are oxalate rich Leads to kidney stones and other complications. So to cut the story short all of those food items have been introduced recently This is why you see this boom nowadays because it's a boom of marketing of supplements Superfoods new miracle potions that can be sold to you all of those food items Spirulina chia seeds all of that Nobody has been eaten So all of your ancestors for you to be able to watch this video right now None of those people in the past ate quinoa buckwheat chia seeds spirulina and vivo life protein None of those people right take that into consideration. So every time somebody tries to sell you something Just ask yourself Did my grandma eat that right? Is there a need for me to eat that? If the answer is no You're probably better off to stay away from it. That's simple Good points. Yeah, so i'm curious Would you still recommend to people to try out the vegan diet if they want to or would you say Right from the start? No, just incorporate also some animal products from the beginning That's a great question child. So the question becomes What is the reason? What is the reasoning? What is the purpose behind it? I really believe in the honest self expression and choice Right. So if you really truly motivated by yourself decide to abstain from animal products I say go for it. The only danger here is of course the echo chamber the vegan echo chamber that will tell you Keep on going keep on going eat this way. This is forever now If you drop out, you've never been vegan, right? You need to stick with this So if you say hey, listen, I want to try it out for a month or so just want to do A reset go for it But take into account that you will run into deficiencies And don't claim to be healthy just because you've been vegan for two three or even four years That says nothing the body can be depleted over a period of over seven to eight to nine years You can face deficiencies later on in life Severe deficiencies and highly likely you will so therefore to all of those young vegans that are popping out now man I've vegans claiming man bobby look at me. I'm healthy. They've been vegan for half a year What are you telling me man, you know Go through it and then you will see what I'm talking about Many people tell me bobby when I saw your videos. I said you're full of shit Yeah, then I tried out a couple months later now I'm back to your channel. Sorry. Sorry that I was attacking you Man I was completely brainwashed. I get it. I was there myself. I truly believed in this movement Anyway, so if you ask me what I recommended, no, I wouldn't recommend this as a dietary practice to anybody. No chance It is very destructive. You have to question any diet that comes with nutritional deficiencies Any diet that requires supplementation just to function somewhat is suspect at best No recommendation to anybody Only if you truly want to experience it for spiritual purposes or whatever then go for it And what would you tell to people that are on the edge of quitting the vegan diet? But they cannot really because they're still in this mental prison What would you tell them because I realized you said something really interesting I can mention it later on that also led led me to like quit the being died and to try stuff out That's cool. Yeah, see the thing is this man. I have many clients I offer personal consultations and people call me on a daily basis, basically And they're recovering from veganism as Tristan from primal health says it. We are running a vegan rescue operation here Right. That's true. It's really the case. Many people are facing those issues because Not only they themselves brainwashed themselves into believing that it's bad to eat meat and animal products But they find themselves in environment beat online or beat family members friends and whatnot that are just telling them dude You can make it. You know, you can make it plan based. There's always an option Those people experience a lot of shame a lot of guilt They feel that they're truly doing something bad here to those people As I said before guys, this is the food that we evolved to eat it is As I stated in the beginning the conflict the dilemma of the duality that we find ourselves in The consciousness part and the animal body part I believe that in the future We will transcend this human body in the future, right? We might become cyborgs. Who knows This might be the urge that we feel inside. We are the only animal that can reflect upon compassion, right upon love upon forgiveness That is Something that is very very specific to the human psychology. We are the only animal that does that you will see ice bears Eating their own babies if they have to We would never do that. We would rather starve ourselves than eating our children. That isn't a unique property to the human psychology anyways as for right now 2019 I know vegans like to say that we have all the plan-based options And we can make it work the reality of things is we cannot The reality of things is we are still Shrapped in this flesh machine and this flesh machine has to be treated like a pet When you have a cat You will feed her meat I hope I heard about vegan cats dropping dead. So please don't do it guys You have to treat your body like a pet. I know we can go through mental gymnastics We can say I'm an enlightened monk and I do not need to jerk off At some point in your life You will have a wet dream because your physiology will not lie biology Never lies You can pretend and play make-believe until you want to your physiology Will reach out to you and tell you the truth. So if you mentally Think that eating meat is bad Okay, that is your mental Aspect that is your god consciousness if you will your flesh body Your beast Will cry out and will signalize it with depression with hunger with cravings with whatnot And will tell you that it needs that food Once you start feeding that beast that animal with those animal foods You will feel the happiness of it. It is literally like feeding the pet anyways for anybody that Have to eat animal products Guess what? You're not alone. We all have to We all have to we're all in the same boat Veganism is a man-made concept That is a reflection of our higher consciousness And maybe some point at some point we will transcend this urge for flesh As for right now we find ourselves in the physical body and needs to be embraced not neglected Just a funny side note. There's a book called transcend by rye quartz vile He's he has also written the singularities near and his mission is to live long enough To then also like become like a cyborg or upload his consciousness into the internet And he takes all these different supplements in his book. He also lists some supplements. It's a good book Yeah, yeah, no laugh rye quartz. Well, I mean you can clearly see that He essentially is motivated by that physical dilemma You can see that his father died and he could never accept death Right rye quartz while he's I believe in The research office of google or something. He's an inventor He's a scientist really really Yeah, really really intelligent guy. I think he invented his first computer when he was five or six years old or so crazy dude But he is into Transcending humanity into this transhumanism movement and you can see that there is this dilemma Of not accepting death and this is what drives him This is why he wants to come up with a new technology and this is why I see with the vegan movement We all want to escape this physical machinery think about it, right? We are ashamed of eating meat nowadays. We are ashamed of pissing and shitting as well Otherwise, we wouldn't have toilets man. Think about it. We close our doors to take a piss and take a shit Even though it is the most natural thing and the same applies to sex We do not fucking public, right? We do it behind closed doors at least most of the time there is a shame Directed towards our biology and this is why we try to escape it This is what we see with veganism as well. It is all in the same subgroup We are ashamed of being humans because our consciousness is basically more evolved than our physiology And we are trying to play catch up with it. It's quite fascinating times It's interesting. It's like Carl Jung says to accept your shadow side Yeah Talking about books because you said you want to also publish that on your channel A really interesting book for everyone listening is I guess you have heard of spiral dynamics probably No, I haven't it's super interesting Like my background is psychology and he's a psychologist that talks about how human consciousness evolves in stages and every stage has a different color and Every stage thinks that his mindset his beliefs are the only beliefs that are true So every color stands for like a belief system So he calls like, you know, like we have like dna and we reproduce and we reproduce our dna He talks how we reproduce our belief systems and our mindsets And the interesting stuff is Veganism seems to be in the in the green color like first you have like A really primitive color when you're born you're pretty primitive or when you're hungry You also go down the lower stages of consciousness But then when you evolve in the stages There's like the orange stage where you basically want to make a lot of money You know like jordan balford is the perfect example of a guy in the orange stage And then you evolve into the green stage you perhaps become a hippie like steve jobs And he was like a hippie was probably in the green stage, right? And then the green stage also you have like beliefs like veganism And the funny thing is after the green stage comes the yellow stage the lay Yellow stage looks at everything holistically and knows that in every stage there is a truth But not every not one stage is the ultimate truth And the funny thing is till you evolve to the yellow stage You still think that your belief system is the only one that is true till the green stage That's what he says. So it's pretty pretty applicable to also like a veganism kind of Yeah applicable to anything that's absolutely beautifully said and beautifully put But this is why it is valuable to follow your own motivation and to go through all of those stages You will find yourself absolutely believing in something But you have to take into account that everything that you believe in Is a belief system Right? No matter how realistic, how compassionate, how beautiful this ideology might sound to you It is still a belief system as long as you follow belief systems. You cannot be free You cannot be unbiased. It is impossible Only when you accept that you know nothing you can truly be liberated and then you can As bruce lee said take what is useful and discard what is not Good, I guess it's a good way to end this podcast because I see I see we're like 19 minutes in So, uh, sounds good, man. Bobby. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it And the thing I forgot to mention also I talked about it before Your sentence that made me quit the vegan diet was you said Nothing bad will happen if you experiment for one week with your nutrition for one month Nothing bad happens if you eat fish for one month not more fish lie because of you And this is also a thing I want to leave the listeners with really good point So, yeah, absolutely the market. Sorry just to The market the market is on right now people are selling fish people are selling eggs You won't change anything about it if you try it out for a week. That is absolutely correct So therefore embrace the time frame that you are in give yourself the benefit of the doubt Give your belief system the benefit of the doubt try it out You won't change anything about the market those animals as unfortunately as that might be already dead Those eggs are ready in the shelf Give yourself the chance to try it out and then after that you can judge it again If you have any questions You all with yourself Why do you want to stay in a state of confusion? If you never confront those fears, you will always be trapped in that box You can only liberate yourself by trying it out. Give it a go and let us know how it went for you Amen well said So how can my viewers contact you in the best way if they want to contact you? Of course, I will put the youtube channel down below. But what are all the ways? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think over the youtube channel is the best way to contact me I have all the other links such as facebook instagram my home page down there so the Straightforward way is just to head over to bobby's perspective on youtube and we can connect from there on awesome Something you want to mention here at the end before we end the podcast Now, I think we said pretty much everything man. As I said before just give it a go yourself I believe that we really Talked about everything here Try to really go within and see Your belief system taking over your character and ask yourself the question if it is you talking Or is it the belief system that took over you right now? We see so many vegans just repeating the same narrative Go Try the sebo test you didn't do it right you Fasted all of those things. I believe nowadays man. Google is sending me bots It is so repetitive. I always hear the same things. Ask yourself the question. Is it you? Are you a truly liberated mind? Is it you speaking or is it is it the vegan religion? Ask yourself that question if you cannot answer it with oh, it's truly me Then question your belief system and try to stay away from the keyboard for five minutes That's pretty much it man. Awesome. Let's continue that chat with frank And then you can we can talk about that stuff awesome So thanks bobby for being here and also guys. Thank you so much for checking in Let me know what you think about the podcast in the comments below Thank you much for liking that video And yeah, I will see you in the next one. Thank you guys and have a great day Thanks guys