 April would be your next meeting and then the last line that's underlined there is one this was feedback I received from Rich about still seeing them so even if you don't hear them until these months you would still be receiving them as they come in as soon as they come in I'll share them with you they wouldn't even be reserved for a packet necessarily they can be sent without as long as you don't discuss them there's no harm in me just sending them to you just something that you can kind of create a spreadsheet on so they can kind of list all those ones first yeah so what we'll do with them is we'll actually assign them a tracking number yeah and then we'll have a spreadsheet so that if there are ones for example you say we really like this idea but not yet or we know we're going to be dealing with form-based codes later in the fall this one is related to that let's save it for the next meeting so that way we can track them and then if somebody comes in five years from now and says we want to do this we can say oh yeah this was on that list five years ago so we'll give them a number and we'll be able to track them that way we're gonna have that you'll have that so that in front of us like you'll be able to pull it out in the air we can always have it yeah but the two meetings is when you will maybe dedicate most of a meeting to hearing those things that have come in and again the process here outlines what you would do when you hear them with the with the expectation that you would at that meeting or the meeting after that at least decide whether you're going to take them up or not and then if you do decide to take them up then you'll have the time you can set your own schedule after that as to how you do we have a big backlog right now I've been gathering them people have been reaching out and saying I sent this one so I've been having to go back I haven't necessarily combed through every single meeting for the last five years for example but I do have a pile that I've collected of those that I did find those that I've heard about that people have alerted me to those that I've heard from people who have reached out inevitably there's probably some that all have missed but I have read through at least the last 18 months or so of planning commission meeting minutes to see what you've been given so those will be the first ones that we bring forward yep I'm just wondering like in the percentage of your time how much time does this take and out of let's say a hundred percent I'm just yeah and then you know the kind of maintenance of it and I assume it's just part of one of your roles I don't think I think that it's time that would be spent anyway because people are inevitably going to call and say this and then we'll we'll be dealing with it that way I think it will be pretty easy to organize but how how each thing would affect the time is something that I will be sharing you know so you can consider it so you can consider oh for example 125 Main Street wants to change from GD to all residential I don't know and I can say boy this is a pretty big undertaking you're welcome to take it out but you should know this is probably going to take four commission meetings and 60 hours of staff staff time yeah so at least with every single request I want to be able to give you that information I think the big thing that I'm anticipating that's really probably gonna pull your list down is whether or not something is in conformance with the town plan because even if you want to take something up even if you're like whoa this is great let's change from office zoning to you know high-density residential that's fantastic if the town plan unequivocally says no new zoning changes even if you wanted to take it up you would not be able to until and unless you amended the town plan so that might be one where I might not even tell you this will take 60 hours of staff time until you decide boy this is really worthy let's open up the town plan again but that those would be ones that you probably wouldn't get a lot of information on other than that just because there's no point investing a lot of time in it if if your hands are sort of tied without opening up the plan and it seems that for some of them that'll be the case thank you are you guys ready for these and I haven't given assessment of any of them just yet so I don't know they may be that the ones that are in falling to that category of where the town plan just says no because I think that would be a bit of a showstopper unless you're eager to open that back up so would you like a motion to accept this yes that would be great yeah I'll make a motion that we accept the this approach to amendments to the zoning second discussion so that takes care of me as well I think as far as setting the dates yeah I think the time between them will go by a lot faster than we think absolutely okay do you want me to move into four or so ever since my first day here I think even in my interview process I've been hearing about East Lakes Shore Drive but very very little bits here and there I wanted to take the opportunity my goal for this meeting is to hear from you guys I have seen I should disclose I was working as a land-juice planning consultant before I started here I briefly worked with Sarah to look at the East Lakes Shore zoning I didn't get very far before Sarah left and so that contract was was sort of paused so I did start looking at that even before I was working on staff but I never I think the question that I'd asked her then is the same question I'm asking you tonight before coming with any sort of solution I want to sort of understand a little bit better about what the goals are and I haven't really been able to find that documented yet so I thought the best thing would be to have an open conversation and it could start with you we could of course open that up to the broader public and solicit you know feedback from anyone who lives in the area or is otherwise interested but my first step I think is is hearing from the Commission on you know what what do you want for East Lakes Shore not not the solution but what is the issue what are your concerns what isn't working what is happening that is not what you think is in line with your values or the town's values and then we can come back a little bit later with okay this is how it may be a reason maybe this Lakeshore 3 and 4 it may be the best solution or it may be something that's a little bit different but I do want to start with understanding the concerns and I was just sort of hoping for a nice intimate dialogue on that yeah I think the biggest thing was rebuilding I think a lot of citizens were surprised about the mass and the height of the new structures going up when it was before then it was just small camps so it changed the neighborhood that's the biggest thing in my address we're not too late on that one I think medical was making it more pedestrian friendly user friendly narrow road and it's actually the speed limit is higher than it is on West Lakeshore Drive so I don't think anybody's comfortable walking on the street there's no sidewalk so that the camp conversions that the rebuilding of structures is that something you've been hearing I think I've now toured every lakeside neighborhood I'm sure I've missed a few there's a lot of points and a lot of adorable and also just a really neat neighborhoods is that a concern that you've heard in a lot of these lakeside neighborhoods or is it just more easy to see on East Lakeshore because it has more traffic volume or is that something that you think is a problem across the town it's a it's a it's a thorough road yeah it's always going to be a customer should be yeah so it's very obvious these camps were built back in the day there was no traffic to speak of I'm sure Sewers is the if and when Sewers should hit and we're going to vote again on it sounds like nobody wanted crazy growth but as you know there's a pretty limited growth so concern now is the buildings themselves okay and you haven't necessarily heard a lot of concerns about that same rebuild that might happen out on say Mill's Point or that's good that's really helpful I wasn't sure if this was a townwide issue or if it's really because these are extra small lots I think yeah maybe more so than in some of the other neighborhoods yeah I guess in line with the sewer is also stormwater I know that's being addressed but that's the other concern so I made a list here but then I went beyond what and kind of looked at what you wrote up the zoning and then I kept crossing off you know thanks because it was like it doesn't sound we have a lot of leeway in terms of zoning on easily there was a memo from Sarah I'm sorry oh that was from Sarah yeah to you in June yeah but when I looked at the minutes from that meeting it didn't at least in the minutes it didn't capture any sort of discussion so I just had her memo to you but I didn't understand to where you fell on it so I'll just can I just read my list okay so one is to maintain the character you know I just love the idea of kind of trying doing our best to maintain that summer cottage lakeside character certainly the traffic and the amount the amount of traffic in the speed is concerning to make it more accessible like I think Rebecca said like making it want you know walkable or just more pedestrian or biker friendly I just didn't know if like a restaurant or a small store could go in there like where people could walk to some place where they would cross paths or meet up with other people from cold Chester I you know I feel one thing about co-chester would be nice to have more opportunities for people to cross paths with one another cut to kind of create spaces where they could talk to one another or just interact with one another so that that's one thing I was thinking of just access to Mallets Bay you know if there's any way I know parking is an issue like you know I don't think about the logistics I just think about what I think would be nice just you know additional access to Mallets Bay maintaining the views you know height restriction stormwater you know I don't know if there's any way those electric lines could go underground I mean that probably I'm sure that would be like a zillion dollars but I just sometimes when I drive there I just think if those you know if the poles were there if everything was underground how beautiful I mean it's beautiful anyway but how beautiful would be and the only other concern I have and I have no reason to have this concern but just the slope the collapse you know on Riverside Ave you know with the slope collapse I don't know if we need a study or some way to kind of assess that in terms of and maybe it's already happening you know with flooding or increased rains or I don't know just if that's being looked at which I assume it is so but I I mean I think more accessibility and just you know maybe just some areas where there are even just benches or tape picnic tables or something where people could go you know and bring a picnic with their family and just sit down over there there's a space there but I don't think it's the towns don't the town yeah yeah yeah so those those are just some ideas yeah is that something that that you guys would like to see adjusted in any way perfect timing it's your turn I fell asleep on it oh you don't know so we're discussing East Lakes Road Drive okay reasons why we should look into rezoning it things they would like to see us do not do yeah I'm just trying to get a better feel for you know what what's not working there today what what's problematic you know one hand and then also you know what what do you envision you know in the future there with the with the goal of making sure that whatever solution we have is right-sized I also want to make sure if there is this concern that I share this concern with Rich is that we have to make sure that we're not letting you know the expression of letting you know the the excellent be the enemy of the good when time is important it will do no good to spend three years working on a perfect rezoning if every single house has been torn down and rebuilt by them you'll have a set of regulations with nothing to apply it to so I'm just trying to hear what the biggest concerns are and then maybe it's I don't call it a band-aid but maybe it's not a full look at the whole big picture right away maybe it's okay what is that what are the biggest issues and can we deal with this and in a in the first supplement and then come back and start to work on that you know a little bit further but I think I'm hearing when I talk to people in the town when I talk to you guys I'm hearing that it's it's something that's been more of a concern recently and you're observing the changes happening faster for whatever reason then maybe they have in the past so if time is important and just trying to understand to a little bit about like what the big things are so I can recap a little bit for you about some things we've talked about so we talked about you know rebuilding of the camp structures and what they're looking like the height the massing and the changes of what what felt like a summer cottage neighborhood to now feeling like just something that's not in place with that aesthetic any longer we've talked about you know the road itself and you know is there anything from any planning tools that would make it more pedestrian friendly I asked a question about whether or not this camp conversion concern and the rebuilds more specifically not it doesn't sound like there's much of a concern going to year-round it's the rebuilds it doesn't sound like that's as much of a problem in other lakeside neighborhoods as it is in East Lakeshore that was a question that I had asked you're of course welcomed away in with your thoughts on that one we talked about maintaining the summer cottage lakeside character pedestrian accessibility maybe a little bit about you know is there and this is something I'll dig into a little bit deeper with you is there a desire for anything non-residential in that area at all and I will put an asterisk on that to say that when you answer that you know use any limiting factors you'd like so for example you might say yeah but only if it's 2000 square feet and under I don't really care if there's a small hair salon there I don't know but I don't want to see you know the next Costco right or something in between a hair salon and a Costco you know maybe it's not right for a restaurant but our car dealership but you know a very small coffee shop so you know consider that that's something I want to hear from you guys about you know what are those uses look like to you we talked a little bit about maintaining the views you know the public spaces that might exist erosion of the properties what's happening there parking issues heights of buildings that's sort of what we've teased at so far I'm caught up do you want to add any thoughts now yeah we're talking mostly on the lake save it honestly do LS folks on the other side yeah a couple more over tracks when I think of right off the top of the debt very property that's a unique piece of property that's a really good point that's a great yeah that's a great spot changes that would be the time to hear from them something else I found at a previous meeting the Commission asked Sarah to look at what the difference of a 15 foot versus 20 foot setback looks like this is so familiar yeah so I don't find an additional version of this I'm sorry it might exist somewhere have you guys seen this yet no so I don't I'll pass it around because it's all I have I'm sorry I can't display it I'll see if I can scan it in I don't think we have a color scanner but I could probably take it somewhere so that I found I can't speak to anything having to do with it but I think that's what it represents I have in my notes also in here about reducing lot coverage making kind of a minimum density I think we talked a little bit about that too reducing the coverage yeah okay I don't know what this is I'm sorry but maybe this was the original oh this is what Lakeshore 3 and 4 could look like from a geographic zoning perspective so 3 would be this brown 4 would be and this was Sarah's early thinking or would be this pink dot is one of these the properties that you're talking about you know not having any context whatsoever that's how big circle is this what you mean the dip is that right past that so this was this is part of this is town so here's like lately this is like the way the town of this one picture oh really that's part of the hot color let me see if I can pull that up oh so what's there it's what is the town on it for a long time okay and this whole thing yeah the town also fascinating I didn't know that okay so I'm sorry but you were saying something about okay it looks like in Sarah's original vision this would be part of pretty much anything on this side of the Lakeshore if a property was large it would extend back a few exceptions it's only one property deep basically yeah a couple of these are a little more I think it's basically properties that are access it's totally on the ball right now I can pull that up is this that next big one here is this hard to see that next to South Bay right there okay and this is all their property correct oh boy and that that elevation goes up right there right oh it's mostly flat but yeah that's pretty flat where you see all those campers in the back yeah that's all flat oh so that's pretty much that's pretty ripe for but from East Lakeshore dry from here does it continue up and that is all included in here as one that's this all correct yeah I'm sorry I interrupted you to orient myself did you have more thoughts on it's sort of interesting to sort of view this whole big property the same way that you might one of these tinier ones no but that might be where the the density the lot coverage comes in I mean right now our two pretty much have what half acre lots in there is that something we want to see what about the place that used to be a store remember they used to be like right at Williams Road and East Lakeshore there was a store sure yeah what about is that so back to being a store because they loud they what the use to laps so yeah kind of a limo me piece of property that here for the road takes a turn so there is a good size property here yeah they'll spring out of that I don't know if that's yeah that's up that's the bike has the bike yeah yeah okay and this land is this privately owned or that's a ledge that's all that you can go look at the GSA map okay I didn't know there was a section that went through here yeah it's a nice section yeah yeah I can't wait to check it out people use it all the time right that there with the arrow yeah it goes and pick it up on Bay Road too but then it goes to Creek Farm yep and it goes all the way to Creek Farm yeah we're connected from in the car right which is quite a vision discussion Brian Oz about any sort of non-residential use or a bakery you know a small bakery and coffee shop you know where people could go to you know bite to you know the problem is there's not much of a drop or anybody to go if you lived here long enough you know that nobody drives that section unless you're going from point B or a location there it's not like there's a large development you can feed off or something like that it's basically a thoroughfare through which is why that store went out of business and never did well and but you do have people from the Lone Pine in the summer I mean seasonal you would it sounds like maybe what I'm hearing from you is if the market were to support it support something of a very limited size when I say in the district maybe not necessarily just about one spot but you know maybe somewhere on the non-lake side small limited uses that are sort of more community oriented so maybe not an accountant's office but maybe I don't want me to do it words in your mouth maybe you think that'd be fantastic I don't know it would be low traffic volume yeah now one time there was a restaurant on the lake and everybody always thinks it's going to be a good idea to bring something like that back where the boats can come in yeah restaurant well it's now where the condo is the duplex condo you take a short order with Peppin's memorials memorials up here it's right there so right there oh yes right here that's it yeah that was a nice one and that store was the snack shop that's a pretty duplex the town owns a little tiny sliver down there but we do just over here there's no parking yeah I was out there today I think there's one other property that it's commercial I can't remember who it is but there's a commercial property right next door yes oh I thought there was one right on the other side there is there is also a marina style right there great is that Jeff Lefebvre yeah that was kind of the commercial corner yeah yeah so certainly anything would allow those to continue but maybe that's not the the right type of use for a new construction that fair or no I think I'll take this question so when we talk about you know something that fits into the summer cottage character tell me a little more about what you think what that means to you be nice if there were some crosswalks I mean so people could cross East Lake Shore Drive because when they're on the east side it's very hard for them to cross with the traffic yeah and I think they have access to the lake or to the beach but they just have to get to it any thoughts about the structures themselves what the whole area has changed over time I mean it used to be just seem like it's just the small camps along the lake side and on the west side slowly you know bigger houses been going up miss this goes way back but it's really been changing and now that lakeside is taking on a big change it I think it's changing the neighborhood I I believe that trying to keep the small cottage feel on the lakeside is more doable than trying to keep a yeah like a small cottage feel on the non-lake side buildings that are going out that people do not like that cold is that a contemporary design of structures on the lake side that I've heard about the tall boxy ones yeah they show up on here they're probably more recent than general public do not like those okay so I personally think they're kind of on the west side yeah I think they're interesting different yeah if the whole that side of the against the one I keep hearing about at the end of Williams is this one of the new builds maybe yeah those are the new ones okay those basically placing what was there that's much it's probably yeah I think that one of these is the ones that I hear which one's coming down or are they numbered I know Sarah's explained it to us this one it seems like the I thought you know they were supposed to be able to mill back on you know within the setbacks where they allowed to within the zoning built build up and I guess from the grade up it's like 40 feet and it means where you take that grade that 40 feet is but if you take it from East Lakes for a drive the road 40 feet it's pretty high but if you take it down a grade towards the lake 40 feet may not seem so tall yeah so I don't know if that's a way around it saying it's if it's a new if it's a new zoning the way around it is to say it's not 40 feet tall it's whatever feet I think it took everybody by surprise yeah someone could build out what was the existing zoning right now yeah yeah I mean 40 feet may not be you know all that much in some homes and certain yeah it doesn't seem as as drastic so am I hearing some sort of consensus that something less than 40 is more appropriate at least on the lakeside maybe I'll start there and on the non-lake side is there their feelings there or not as much the idea of being on the non-lake side as you build something so you can see the lake I can understand that so one of the other things that exists that I think Sarah points out aptly in the memo that she's given you in June is that the way the language is written right now I don't know that there's any good examples of this most of the houses are pretty square with the road but and we do see this in our office if you do have a house maybe this one's a little off kilter so it's a little easier to see if you have a point the way that the regulations are currently written if you have any sort of piece of your house that is projecting towards the lake even if it's a deck even if it's a deck you put out a permit and you were to take that down and rebuild it that becomes your new building line so even if you don't have five feet of your lakeside facade at that point before you know how bad is your building line so you can now build the entire lakeside and same thing with the roadside if you would have just this little front stoop for example anything part of your structure that becomes your building line and so what we're seeing not not always in the rebuilds but sometimes is that people are taking advantage of that and saying okay here was the closest point and now I'm building all my structure to that here was my closest point to the lake before it may have only been a little bit of a bay that jetted out now their whole structure goes on that way so I think she was trying to raise that as a thought in her memo to you about whether or not that would be something you wanted to amend I think it was intentionally allowed I don't think it was a loophole I think from what I was reading it was allowed so that people could rebuild that deck but what we're seeing actually in a fact is that that's become a building line for more structure more non-conforming structure so can you something I'll ask you to think about you don't have to give an answer today but is that something that that you would like to see continue or is it something that you would like to see I thought the footprint was the footprint you could expand so you the way it's written is that you can build to whatever that setback line is so you could go beyond the footprint you just can't increase the degree of encroachment and if you're encroached to 20 feet from the lake at one point you can encroach to 20 feet from the lake across the whole thing right so how could you say that you could just rebuild the deck but you can't encroach on either side I don't know and honestly we were just I don't have a lot of history to speak to but I've seen at least four or five camp rebuilds that have taken advantage of this I don't mean that in a bad way I've taken advantage of the provision and built out closer their nonconformity then they were previously allowed so people are using it and it's not just to put on the deck sounds like we need to change the wording that decks and structures are different things when it comes to rebuilding if we don't like yeah if you're rebuilding a small camp you're getting another 10 to 12 20 that's a huge debt yeah sometimes it's a deck but sometimes it's just the way that they had an L shaped house and so that's what really gets them yeah because now they can square off that that corner and and I'm not saying that's a bad thing it's just something I want to raise for you to think about and decide whether or not you're okay with that or if you would like to see that changed and you don't have to answer that today but it's something that we'll want to consider as we like this so so more quickly anything else when we talk about the building aesthetic other than height that comes to mind and I know aesthetics are almost impossible to regulate but what I keep hearing is you know this camp feel so what else does that mean in any sort of way that we can kind of run away from that we've never implemented it the closest thing we've got is what is it called what was it called the mallets bay like where the moorings is he built that that building to that yeah they had a whole thing they decided it wasn't was that just the builder it wasn't mandatory it was a suggestion it was no regulation it was a suggestion yeah it's almost impossible I mean there's some things you can you can do you know you can talk about a pitch drew versus a flat one there's some very simple things they don't they're not perfect but no I think focusing on the scale I think you're better yeah I think communities of all buildings of all over time and I think it needs to be flexibility on the styles I you know what was happened in the early 1920s is different from what's happening in 2020 and I think seeing the variety adds to the neighborhood I don't have any issue of one style versus another it's more of the scale the scale the height the okay anything else about again I don't I don't mean any of these to be leading questions just trying to understand a little more anything else about massing or or or other elements I'm not even sure where I'm going with that but I do wish like maybe 50 or 100 years ago maybe they which they didn't have zoning but I just think if they had stuck somewhat to a New England cottage style it just would have me you know aesthetically I mean I don't necessarily like to tell people what to do but I just think visually it would have looked really beautiful a long East Lakeshow Drive the character I mean I think I'm I think I'm hearing from you know it's just somehow to maintain that character I I love that about Colchester I mean I just love that I feel like it really captures Vermont I mean being so close to Burlington I feel culture has this really neat way of just staying a little bit more rural something I heard I won't say that I heard from a lot of people but I heard from at least one person is that the the broad paved parking in front of a unit was really out of character is that a concern that you guys have or not at all I think I don't know if there's more than one of the houses like that but it's I think three or four cars wide all paved in front and so there's no green space or even if that breaks down to the lot size yeah again I don't mean these to be leading I just want to hear from you yeah how much impervious surface you have on a lot of percentage you're allowed to cover and things like that or something you could consider yeah but the location of the parking is I'm not hearing is a big concern or is it the problem is with the size of lots especially on the lake side there's nowhere else to park but right there off the road yeah park there you have no if you look at some of the lots to parking is up here with the entrance to the campus eight feet below that yeah I think the person I was talking to was just saying like when you have this like swath of pavement you don't even bear you can barely see the home it's just it feels like a parking lot along the road but I I don't know that there's an alternative to that there's no to be nice not to how are you gonna put it on the lake side if you look at the houses you have pictured right there if they have that same problem those right there where else are you gonna park yeah I think I was there find some those three do not have much yeah those are like parallel parking right right I think the ones that I'm these ones are just fortunate because they're just larger lots and they have some room to to be off okay so that's good feedback it's good to understand that is there isn't a problem mostly it comes up with one of the rebuilds I think has brought up that concern depends on how up-to-date yeah this map is I think it was just the share amount of like concrete I don't know whether you can add something in there to you know if you have certain amount of paving that you have to have a certain percentage of landscaping around it might soften the blow can you require them to remain gravel as opposed to like paved some of the might anyway just because well most stormwater utilities now look at gravel the same way that they would look at pavement I think for a while gravel was seen as an alternative and was more porous but I don't think any I don't think anything looks at it that way I think they it's largely viewed the same as concrete these days rich said yeah much place the park yeah they'll be on the road somebody's neighborhood yeah that's the new one so they'll just park on the road sure and we've done that in the state it's hard to get in and out so residents any other thoughts or I mean this is far from our our only discussion on this I just wanted to take a step back and hear a little bit more before taking the step forward okay it's the same I think people are still doing easy slow growth they don't want overpowering Sarah is a memo to you in June did mention the cautioned against the idea of phased growth hence why phased growth where you would set a cap and say only X number of units or something or per year I think she put it out there as a you want to consider it but I think she said it's not a good idea I just want to highlight that back to you I'm sort of in agreement with her that it can be can be really challenging you could theoretically attach that more if there was sewer it would make a little bit more sense Williston did that still does it they have a certain number of they have a limited amount of capacity and I mean there's this much more town-wide district that they say and so we're only allowing X gallons per year which comes out to 64 housing units and that's what we're doing that might be a better discussion if we're talking about public sewer but if we're not but it is an option on the table I thought we had a whole presentation of if the sewer went in the public sewer the last time we had that discussion and I thought the build-up won I thought even with everything built out it wasn't that the way it's on now it wasn't that many units if it works to remain like an R2 as it is it's not that much right although it's a little more than I thought I mean those are always philosophical exercises right they don't consider what your actual frontage is they say if you've got a half an acre lot that can host two units it doesn't necessarily consider whether that half acre lot is all deep and you still only have a little bit of frontage you can't actually the second unit so build outs are always you have to take them with a very very large grain of salt because they're not meant to look at individual properties but I thought there was a concern of some of the people that was going to get tremendously built up and built out my guess is it's not on the lake side but these properties that you've talked about and what the drawer would be there I don't know not familiar enough with them to know if the reason that they haven't yet is because of limitations on capacity I am the farthest thing from a wastewater expert that here in town I'm learning very slowly I understand there's such a thing as like a community system and all that but I think even that only supports so much and I've never connected with any of the property owners I don't know much about these yet that cover just about everything in the memo that I just I copied it mostly verbatim just because she really did a fantastic job of hitting on all of the different things to consider yeah so they talked about the build out analysis 40 additional new units that's not a lot it's even let in it's even less if you're more conservative about access and road frontage monetary thresholds she's mentioned here those are a possibility something it's it's I've seen it in some other towns in some smaller lakeside communities without quoting something I don't have in front of me I know in South Burlington for example one of their like the Queen City Park neighborhood down by Red Rocks you are allowed to rebuild but you can't rebuild more than x percent it's to prevent these tear downs and rebuilds you can only increase the value by x percent of what the existing was whether or not it's a good policy ideas so they couldn't build any they couldn't build out what they had before it had to be a smaller that it was all about monetary value so again I don't have it in front of me I'm sorry I don't know you cannot do that yeah yeah so I think that the language basically says that a rebuild can't result in a increase more than a hundred and fifty percent of the existing value for example I'm making up that number don't quote me on it but it's something like that with the goal the policy goal there had been you can update these you can bring them you know but we're not going to tear down and rebuild something drastically different the reason for that was the whole building I think the reason was to keep character to keep the sort of they were all year round down there it's all public sewer and water but I think after the first structure went up that was so drastically different than everything else down there there was there was a pretty big push back against we don't want this to have this type of very large modern expensive architecture I mean they're all going to be expensive no matter what you're in a beautiful area with beautiful access to beautiful lake views but right but that was some language so that's that's a possibility it's a way of sort of tamping down some of this if you were interested I could bring you more very specific language it's got its positives we had something in there about the skill and what go there that kind of controls no matter you know you take a small box you can put that for $50,000 or you could put so many and have half a million dollar house there yeah still the same size yeah I don't think she weighed in on whether she thought it was a good idea and it really comes down to again that's why I backed it up to see what's you know what is the concern if the concern is not necessarily you know holding on to a 1950s beachy aesthetic then that's not a good tool it doesn't sound like it necessarily is it's more about the sizing then okay I think that's all I have on that topic so I don't think we'll come back to this one at the April meeting because we'll be talking about but I'll do some work and you know if the sewer passes I think that you know that may be another conversation then it probably will change the conversation this will build in some time for me to adjust to that yeah yeah okay these are super quick there is a draft available of the hazard mitigation plan as you may or may not know a lot of communities will do them on a region-wide basis which Esther chose to do its own for a variety of reasons they hired a consultant to do it that draft so that was not done in-house but it was done with in-house from a lot of the department heads and emergency management people so that plan is available I think that link should work but if it doesn't let me know I believe it's going to select court in March so there'll be a final vote and March is critical because it has to be submitted to FEMA by March so you have any input in that I think the best process at this point is to either hold another meeting or to provide individual comment directly to select it's a pretty good plan I don't think there's anything drastically different the interesting thing about doing it is it asks you to rate hazards and you have to do this every time you do it and pandemics have always been on there and they never ever rank as to like with the threats to your community and so they went from like never being on there to being like second on the list like right after flooding is like pandemics and it's it's just it's a whole new world to see something like that on there so it's a decent plan I don't have any major issues with it is this is this I thought when I was reading through this it said that we allow rebuilding in flood areas as long as the houses are up high said was that in this no I think it might have been yeah I think it has to be above the 102 and it has to have a foundation above 60 or something I'm not a flood expert but yeah something it has to be somehow attached so that it doesn't float off yeah yeah there's there's a collection of regulations that I'm not very familiar with okay I'm learning the flooding is remains one of the biggest concerns in the mitigation plan if you do get a chance to read it I do encourage you to you're not actually required to endorse it but it's always great if you if you like it there's no questions about that the community rating system annually we have to so every five years there's a cycle visit where they completely reassess us you're probably more familiar with this than I am so what that does for anyone listening at home is that when the town participates in this it saves anyone in place pays for flood insurance a percent of premium we're currently out of savings of 10% for anyone in that flood insurance program the relief from what I see the average of that is about 20 to 30 dollars per house in the program so we do have to maintain that in order for residents in the program don't know exactly how many there are but for them to have that savings so I just just did that it was a learning curve for me I don't know if it'll be approved just yet I hope so no new construction in the floodplain we do a lot of outreach we put notices out there for folks who are living in that floodplain we have according to the plan itself 80 structures habitable structures in that zone of that exists it's one of the things I'll be looking for I'm curious where they are so that was done I'll let you guys know how that goes recede of notice related to 248 certificate of public good I did look at this one for you guys it's pretty much like adding an antenna to an X adding a arm to an existing antenna it's about as low impact as I think you can see out of public good request but of course you are required to receive it so I'm going to receive it as well there's nothing that alarms me there but if you have concerns you are allowed to respond no concerns there monthly building reports for November and December I've attached those so every month at the start of the month so tomorrow I do a report of everything that was permitted in the previous month just to sort of see where we are if you look at the report you'll see we try to compare that to where we were the year before and then we look at it as a whole in the fiscal year not surprisingly it's lower than last year but it's also a little bit hard to to compare because there were different things that needed permits last year that need permits for this year I'm not sure it tells us a great deal but they're fun to see so we do them we also are required to report to the Census Bureau without information planning and zoning department updates we are now fully staffed we have four staff members we have two associate planners who began at the end of October and ended November respectively I believe you've all met Zach who had started in May so he's continuing he stops to develop new board does great job everybody's been we're getting closer to turning applications around faster getting through a lot of work we've updated all of our application forms some of them date back a couple decades in the way that they look so we've tried to look for more necessary information tried to make them all fillable PDF so people don't have to print them right almost in the back we've got some new forms that didn't exist before for example for a certificate of occupancy one of the big things that we're trying to work on that I will probably be bringing to you and you're I will be quite asking of you at your April meeting is to understand the line between what needs a building permanent what doesn't it had been I think somewhat clear however there are some language that had existed in chapter four of the code of ordinances so building in in town is is regulated by the land development regulations that exist and the code ordinances chapter four of the code of ordinances have really related to all the building code the residential building code the town in June decided to discontinue the residential building code so we don't enforce that anymore we go on site we don't look for electrical or plumbing or handrails or how a deck is built for example when that happened some language was left behind that will be trying to clean up that requires a permit for certain things that had only needed a permit before because they needed to be inspected for their adherence to this building code as well as international residential building code so we're having to still issue permits on them some of that includes for example finishing a basement the development regulations do not require you to get a permit to finish a basement you had to get a permit under a code of ordinances because we wanted to know if there was a bedroom down there we wanted to know if your plumbing was done right so the question that I'll be coming to you with is do you mean for this to need a permit or not it's not currently in the development regulations if you don't mean for that then I will be going to select board and saying we'll clean up chapter four a little because it's still requiring this and the Commission doesn't mean for it to so that's food for thought about and I'll be more prepared in April to discuss this why would you possibly want to why would you not want to it's really I won't have a good recommendation for you because it really just comes down to policy I see forens of the spectrum and communities around us my home in Wilson for example I didn't need a permit to refinish my kitchen I didn't need a permit for my very small shed I didn't need a permit to put down new carpet if you were in South Burlington for example you wanted to change you want to replace your roof you need to permit you want to replace your kitchen you need a permit finish the basement you need a permit and then there's other communities are somewhat in between so I'll just be asking you guys what you intend so that we can clean that up they get all the details for you I'll have you a better understanding what we do in the development regulations which is your charge and what's been left over in chapter four of the code of ordinances that you may or may not have intended so if you keep that in your mind we'll get some more details in April but it'll be a very important question that I'll be asking you because we're currently requiring permits for things simply because they were left behind in chapter four and it's gotten a little sticky just because they can only be approved by a building inspector so do you go out like when there's new construction and kind of make sure that how you know builders and contractors that are staying to their plans and yeah so the way that the regulations are currently written every every building permit that you get requires a certificate of occupancy the only way you can get a certificate of occupancy is to have an inspection so yeah you put in a fence you finish your basement you redo your kitchen we got to go look at it that's a longer-term discussion that I'll probably be having with you guys to about whether or not that makes sense I'm not anywhere near ready for a recommendation but you know what are we inspecting for when we look at somebody who's remodeled their kitchen it's a lot of staff time does it make sense for us to take half an hour to an hour to go and look to see yes you put up new cabinets we have no regulations about what those cabinets look like but we're out there to affirm it so we'll be talking once I'm ready to put forth some recommendations about whether or not that's what it should say that does live in the development regulations not in chapter 4 the court of ordinances so yeah right now that's the process we don't necessarily go out during construction unless somebody calls us and is concerned somebody says hey I know my neighbor got a permit for a two-story house and suddenly it's four we might go out so we can see it documented and have a conversation but otherwise we don't go out until they request it let's see what else guidance brochures we're trying to update all those on our website some of them are out of date that's ongoing town health officer role we have one person in that role right now Seth Blasker I have put in my application to the state to be a deputy health officer so that we have another person who's capable of doing that if somebody's out of town pretty much the update yeah and they're doing a great job do we are we replacing is Rick still on the planning commission do we need another member and a student member and can I just ask one more question about our role is the energy committee like what is our charge and what are we responsible for yeah so I think you didn't have to we talked about this one Renee presented last week you didn't have to convene and reconvene like you do with some others as far as I understand it I'm just wondering with the climate action plan that seems like there's a lot of regulations but new things that are coming down and I just didn't know in a municipality who's responsible at the energy committee is responsible for looking at that or implementing it or part of the town plan requires the energy chapter I'm not sure about implementation during plan years though sorry haven't learned much about it yet yeah so I think we're still in track for two months I did remove that July there's a report sorry did you like this April will be the review so it'll be probably yeah that's the only change but these are I think very flexible depending on how things go and they're basically skipping March and once a month starting in April yeah I left May there just in case you started a review in April of the requests for amendments you weren't able to get through them and you don't want to wait two months if you do get through them and say great Kathy go work on these four maybe we don't meet in May to give a little bit more time but I wanted to at least hold it in case you didn't get through them and you didn't have a two-month gap but that's still totally very flexible works I'll make a motion except the minutes discussion all in favor hi what's that motion for adjournment I'll make a motion to adjourn