 My question is rather on a similar line to Owine's. I agree with your general premise that civilization is built upon reason and rationality. But I think there's something within human nature and our desire within humanity for destruction, for death. I think Freud called it the Thanatos. It's why you get alcoholics drinking themselves to death, you get gamblers throwing everything away, you get drug addicts. We've got something within us that wants to do something unreasonable, wants to go to war, wants to do something wrong. How would you fix that with your ideas of freedom and liberty? Yes, I think it's a mistake to think of it as something within us. Look, what makes us different than the animals is our reason. But reason requires effort to engage. If you don't engage in reason, you become an animal. Animals are driven by their instincts. We don't have instincts, not the same way they do. The guides have the action. So we have emotions. So when you kill your reason what you're left with is emotions. Emotions are not tools of cognition. They're not a way to live life. They're beautiful. I mean, I'm a passionate guide. You live through, you experience life through your emotions. But they're not guides to action. They're not guides of cognition. And that needs to be taught. That needs to be expected of people. Civilization doesn't just happen. It needs to be embraced. It needs to be people need to think about it. People need to be engaged with it. And so there's a reason why the Industrial Revolution happens after the Enlightenment because people were engaged in these ideas. And they embraced them. And that's why we got to where we are today. But it's easy to give up in the sense that we are flooded with ideologies that tell us from postmodernism to, I don't know, every version of philosophy that exists out there, every version of intellectuals that exists out there, all at the end of the day, are anti-reason. Reality is whatever you want it to be. Or you create your own reality. Or there's no such thing as objective facts. Facts is just whatever you feel like they are today or tomorrow. I mean, we're flooded with this. And our philosophy department, I'm sure here at Exodus, flooded with this in sociology and psychology. And you quoted Freud, which is another one of these mystics. It's not fact-based. It's not science-based. It's not reason-based. And the world is driven not by our instincts, not by something bad inside of us. That's the Christian in you guys, right? You've got original sin. There's something bad inside of you. No, you've got emotions if you've got reason. And if you're brought up to think, then that's what you and if you respect thinking, then that's what you do. But ideas will influence you. Idea will either undercut or support. And in this context, all of the West is basically being a battle between two philosophers, Aristotle and Plato. And you can track the entire history between these two. There's a wonderful book called The Cave in the Light, which I recommend that basically does that. It tracks Western civilization and the influence of Aristotle and Plato. But think what does Plato represent? Well, he represents a cave. You guys are in a cave. This is why the book is called The Cave in the Light. You're in a cave. You don't see reality. You don't know what reality is. You can't reason because you don't have facts. You can't access the facts. Who accesses the facts? Who can actually step outside of the cave and see the world as it is? The philosopher king. And therefore he has all the knowledge. You're just an ignorant nobody. And you have to be. There's no way for you to escape that. Only certain people can be philosopher kings. Only certain people can be the fewer or the guy who represents the Polaterian. Only people can be Putin and reflect the will of the Russian people, right? But that's the philosopher king. And that's embedded in our Western civilization. Not because it's in our genes, but because that's what we've been taught forever. I mean, Christianity's a version of this. The Pope communes with the spirits. He knows. You just have to follow and do what you're told. You don't think for yourself. Nobody wants you, nobody expects you, nobody demands it of you. So religion is platonic, not accidentally. It doesn't associate reason with individuals. It associates ignorance with individuals and only some individuals who commune with the spirits get to decide everything. So we live, collectivism is a philosophy of philosopher kings. And then Aristotle's the opposite. Aristotle's about logic and about reason and about the individual, having, possessing, logic and reason. And therefore making their own decisions. And he rejects the world of forms, that mystical place in which we can commune with to get our knowledge. And he says, no, it's all here, reality. That's what matters. I'm on Aristotle's side. But it's a battle. It's not human nature. No, it's a battle. It's a battle each side, each one of us, if we have the knowledge and if we don't have the knowledge and it's a battle between people's respect for their own mind and their dismissal of it and the appeal of their emotions. And we, as intellectuals, as people who go to college, I think part of what our responsibility is if we want a good world is to exhibit the behavior of individuals following reason and model that so that people see that it's good and follow it. Thank you for listening or watching the Iran Book Show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening. You get value from watching. Show your appreciation. You can do that by going to iranbrookshow.com or go to Patreon, subscribe star locals and just making a appropriate contribution on any one of those channels. Also, if you'd like to see the Iran Book Show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course subscribe. Press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.