 Welcome to Dare to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger. And such an honor and a pleasure to be with you again today. And I just wanna say in advance, thank you so much for everything that you write after you watch these interviews, especially on YouTube. I love all of the great comments we also get for the show and from the subscribers on Apple Podcast and some of the other major podcast sites. And YouTube, just know that I read all of them. And I get back to you as much as I can. We are so grateful because clearly we have a tribe out there and you resonate with this message. And I'm so grateful for you because you're doing the great work at a very auspicious time. I wanna thank the sponsors for this show, Dr. Dane Here and Access Consciousness. They do beautiful energy work out into the world. And if you would like to enroll in their courses, get their books or become a facilitator, you can go to drdanehere.com or accessconsciousness.com. The Dare to Dream podcast has been nominated for two People's Choice Podcast Awards as well as a Webby Award. And we show up weekly in the top self-improvement and all of Apple Podcasts in the USA plus in several other countries. It's always very fun to see where we show up in the world and who's paying attention to the subject. That makes me very happy in countries where I'm hoping we are paid attention to. So today the question is, are you ready to receive the answers to very thought provoking questions? Because my guests today are the authors, Penelope Jean Hayes and Carol Serene Borgans. Borgans, excuse me. Penelope is the foremost leader in the field of contagious and osmotic energy known as viral analogy. And she has appeared on TV as an expert guest on Dr. Phil ABC News as well as internationally. She's the founder of the Viral Energy Institute and author of the books, The Magic of Viral Energy, The Likely Future and Do Unto Earth, It's Not Too Late. You can find out more about her at her name, PenelopeJeanHayes.com. And for our second guest, Carol Serene Borgans, she is an intuitive medium, channel, horse whisperer and practitioner of metaphysical and healing disciplines. She has channeled PAX Wisdom for two children's whimsical volumes, two books on the reality of COVID-19 and one book on how personal power will end the pandemic. Plus the most recent environmentally focused book, Do Unto Earth, It's Not Too Late. Carol channels PAX privately to clients around the world, find her at her name, carolssereneborgans.com and just know that all of this is in the show notes for you too. And I welcome Penelope and Carol to the Dare to Dream show. It's so great to have you. It's great to be here. Thanks, Debbie. Thank you, great to be here. Yeah, pleasure. I'm curious first, how did the two of you meet? How long ago and what brought you together? Okay, thank you. Good question. So it really wasn't that long ago. I'm trying to think now. So we started writing Do Unto Earth October of, was it? So just a year and a few months ago and the entire book was written in a couple of months. So I was on book tour, met up with Carol who I had already been acquainted with, met up with her where she lives in British Columbia and we had a conversation about starting to do this work that PAX actually offered and asked us to do together. So what it was, was Carol and I were acquainted because I had gone to her for a couple spirit channeling sessions or a few spirit channeling sessions. And PAX, who is the spirit energy that Carol channels was aware then because my questions was aware of what I was working on because the questions were all about the Viral Energy Institute and the environmental healing message and how can we get there as a human population? And so one day I got communication from Carol saying PAX wanted us to get together and offer to lend support and wisdom to what I was working on at the Viral Energy Institute. So this was phenomenal. I happened to be just about to go on book tour for six weeks and I think it was something like 35 or 36 cities on the West Coast. And so while I was out there, Carol and I met up, we had coffee, we talked about how we would do this. And then when I returned from book tour, I live in Southern Florida. We just started immediately. I think it was the next day after landing we were so excited. So I sent Carol 10 questions to ask PAX. It just started as 10 questions. And they were all around this, the environmental healing and things that I was working on, things that I was interested in. And that developed very quickly to, wow, this looks like a book. It was actually working on my next book at that time was intended to be titled Do On To Earth. And I had the outline of that book at this point. It was very early on. So my background as a journalist, I knew that I would be maybe interviewing, talking to some sources. I figured that that is the way this book would come together. I did not know that the source would in fact be PAX who has introduced himself as the God being and the greater wisdom. We'll get into that in a moment. But that's how we met. And so as we got into this process, we both sort of said, wow, is this maybe a book? Maybe more than just wisdom and support for the Institute, but is this meant to be a book? So Carol asked PAX, checked in with PAX, and indeed the answer came back, yes. And so we asked, is this to adopt the title Do On To Earth? So within a couple of months, we had this book, Debbie. Yeah, I love this, this is so crazy and it's actually so perfect. This is the back of the book. I want you to see though, as I get around to the front what we're talking about here. This is a big book. So when you say, I sent 10 questions and through Carol, PAX answered. So Carol, how does that work? Because how do you get to something this size and with this amazing amount of information in it? That is a process. And you're writing, you're scribing. To answer your question, how to get to something like that? The answer is Penelope. She's the one with the questions. PAX was all in with the interest and basically excitement, which I feel through me when I'm channeling for this process. While I am a channeler by way of automatic writing, that has since given way to an ability to channel directly onto the keyboard. That's the only way that this could work with the speed. It did. So the process was Penelope would email to me a list of questions. It began with 10 questions. I would sit down and ask for the presence of PAX to be with me for the purpose of channeling the responses to these questions. That would take place. And I would clean up my typos and return the transcript to Penelope. And this went on daily. And it was enabled, I think, by the fact that Penelope is on Eastern time. I'm on Pacific time. So she would submit it all. I'd have a lot of my day left to be able to channel all of this, get it back to her. And while I was still sleeping the next morning, she was up reviewing and working on all this. The term warp speed comes to mind. And that process was enabled by the brilliance and excitement of PAX to respond knowing that the purpose of this book, this material, which we were putting together to share with the world was for healing. Was for awareness, for elevating people's consciousness. And all in all, it's been a joy. It's really a joy. It's interesting that you would use the word joy because I was curious. I would say that there are some very urgent detailed messages here in response to Penelope's questions that PAX is asking us to pay attention to. And I was curious while you were doing the book or after the book, did either of you ever feel overwhelmed or depressed or excited about the possibilities in the future? For me, it's just one of those. It's excitement over the Penelope. Yeah, no, I echo that. It is a book of solutions and a very positive message and even humor. And we often say that, you know, PAX is actually kind of funny sometimes. We often say that Do Unto Earth reads like a movie. I mean, it's just this page-turner and it is empowering and the overall message is extremely positive. So it's not a book that is a litany of our problems on planet Earth. They are addressed, but they're were given solutions. So it's solution, solution, solution. And that's very exciting. And you think about, you know, some of these solutions are actually billion-dollar ideas when you think about the replacement to plastic, the replacement to crude oil. These are things that this one thing could absolutely change the trajectory of our pollution issue on this planet and therefore global warming and many other things. So it was exciting. We felt that we wanted to get it depressed. We felt that we were sitting on very important information. Did it quickly too. I'm very impressed. Well, we did it quickly because of Bill Gladstone and he's our publisher. He's my literary agent for many years. And when it was, it's a fun story because when I submitted this to Bill, it was just maybe the first three or four chapters and what do we have? I don't know, 27, 28 chapters or something in this book. And I sent it to Bill and this was probably about two weeks into writing. And I just wanted to let him know as my literary agent, this is what we're working on. This is what's going on. It's super exciting. Well, Bill's a very busy man and he would email before he would phone call type of a thing because he's so busy and he would be very sure, few words. So it was maybe 12 hours after I submitted it to him, my phone rings and it's Bill. I'm like, whoa. So I pick up the phone, I'm like, hi Bill. And he's like Penelope, do unto earth. I love it. And so he was so passionate also because of what he read, the information that he read excited him to that it moved to the top of his projects list. And it became a priority for all of us on team to get this book to the world population. And that is how we feel, everyone on our team are, it's like a soul sister brotherhood divine team where each person was sort of vetted for their intention and the goodness within them, do they have the right intention for this powerful message from this very special divine universal source? And we are just thrilled that we've had the protection that everyone involved in this project has brought nothing but light. So that's beautiful. Then I wanna go back a little bit to some inception. Carol, how did PAX come to you? What was the first experience you had channeling? And I just want folks to know it's P-A-X when we refer to this name or had you already been on this path? Yes, I was already on the path. And for your listeners, PAX is a word that means peace and PAX is our messenger of peace. It was some 25 years ago when I was sitting at my desk channeling one evening, I was channeling by automatic writing and some spirits that were just looking for communication. I wasn't doing anything noteworthy. It was interrupted. The flow of writing was interrupted. The style of writing changed. I felt the energy shift in the room and there it was in writing. An introduction to PAX with an accompanying question. The purpose for contacting me, he said, was to ask if I would be willing to be his channel. Excuse me. I felt immediately a responsibility that was very weighty about that. And we communicated a little bit and I asked for time to consider this because the other side of this agreement was that the information that I would channel from PAX was intended to be put into book form and shared with the world. Well, that was, wow. Oh, goodness. So I was given time and it took a week or two and we communicated once again and I was in. I agreed, not knowing what was coming but trusting and that's a word that's very big in the PAX vocabulary is trust. And he teaches that we are to trust in ourselves and our own abilities. So since that time we have been together I do not channel any other spirit. When I begin a channeling session it has begun with the request for the presence of PAX which is a part of the protection in the pre-channeling process. And so there are no surprises all the information that has come through me channeled in the last 25 years is pure and it's from PAX. Thank you for sharing that. I'm so curious because I know it's addressed in the book I wasn't fully clear because Penelope asked the question, who are you? And then an answer ensues. And so I would like you to say your best understanding is PAX a singular being? Is PAX a collective energy that comes through? Is it one of your future selves? Or is it the source? God got us all that is or something wholly different? It is not a singular. It may be confusing in that I refer to PAX as he. However, PAX is exactly what you stated. The collective consciousness, the divine, the source energy and wisdom and all knowing and not one individual. Great, okay. And then for you Penelope your inception you come to this project thinking, oh great I can get some answers, some clarity to move forward with viral analogy. So tell us about that because it's so funny hearing you guys talk about how PAX is the messenger and the books of the messenger but clearly when Carol says yes to this request after consideration and then she trusts as she's talking about, poof, you pop up and who would have thought, right? With the background you have and now this hunger you have and the viral analogy. So what is that? And are you still involved in that as a professional? Yes, well PAX and viral analogy are separate. So for many years I've been working on viral analogy and have founded the viral energy institute. So viral energy, so the word viral analogy is derived from viral energy and viral energy is just the contagious nature of energy in social interactions and the environments all around us. So to put it in very, very simple terms we know that a smile is contagious, laughter is infectious and we also know that the negative, the heavy energies are also contagious. So an example could be of something that we've all experienced is that let's say you come from this very busy day in your office or in your life or with your kids or whatever's going on and you take a walk in nature. You just go out in nature and you sit there. Maybe you can be there for a few hours and you will find that your energy will synchronize with the energy of nature. So it always works where the larger energy field wins. So in this case we know that the forest is a larger energy field, more concentrated is a better word than our singular being. So viral energy works by osmosis. So we hear a lot about the law of attraction and we know that attraction works kind of like a radio wave. You send out a signal, if you're tuned into that signal you'll get that. So viral energy is not law of attraction. Viral energy works through osmosis. So it's a passive experience and osmosis is the process by which molecules move through a semi permeable membrane and that's us, that's our being, move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration until the concentrations are equal on each side. That's osmosis and that's viral energy. So knowing that we then want to become mindful of what environments we put ourselves in. What are we marinating in? Who are we hanging out with? What are we watching on the news? So that's the work that I do at the Institute and with viral analogy. Now, where Pax plays into that is just simply that he identified me as someone who might have the right questions for this project. So I was identified as someone who was working on environmental issues, working on equality issues, working on viral analogy, which is this incredible new field of study where we try to merge traditional science with metaphysics. For the purpose of opening people's minds to be more mindful to raise consciousness. And so those things, and I would have to say, and Carol can speak to this too, I would have to say that together with intention. So an individual's intention, what their life purpose is, what they intend in this world, what I had intended to do with the work that I'm working on would have been why I was chosen. So it's incredibly awe inspiring to be included in a project like this. It is a opportunity of a lifetime for anyone and a great honor to be able to serve in this way, to bring the questions and the curiosities to this project. And we find, and I know that this is probably true for UW, a lot of the questions that I had would be your questions. That you've probably, as you're reading them, I would have asked that. I've always wondered that. So it's that and it's a depth of many different topics that was able to bring together this team of Carol, Pax and myself. Yeah, I thought you were incredibly detailed in your questions. It wasn't that you would ask a question and Pax would answer, landed, and then you'd shift directions, you would stay on a path for a while. And I rather appreciated that you would keep diving or saying, well, understand that, but can you talk more about this? And so going down those paths, I thought was very important in a book like this. And when you talk about the environmental issues that are brought up in the book, I'm wondering if you can share with some of the listeners simple things. There are a lot of big global issues as there are, right? And I believe that's part, personally, I believe that's part of what's going on right now. We're all being given a time out to write the ship. And so I'm fully in. I mean, I'm really fully in for this. So the timing of this book is spectacular. So that said, if people feel overwhelmed by ramifications, where do I start? I want to do something, but it's also mind blowing. Are there simple things on a daily basis that we can start to implement that, although they may seem simple, actually have really big profound impact down the road for the environment and for the planet. Oh, they sure, it's absolutely the way to go. So I would say that the simplest thing and the most profound thing and actually more important than any of those, you know, sort of large efforts is the idea that we, the consumer have the power. And when each of us, each one of us, you just think about the plastic that comes into our houses, you know, every time we go grocery shopping and this is everybody, you know, me included, everybody. So we are part of that. And as consumers, this is a vote. This is the most powerful vote you're ever going to make, more powerful than who's our administration for the next four years. I mean, come on, you know, whether it's this administration, the last administration, you're still going to have the large issues of crude oil and moving into those new renewable energies. This is a very large 1,000 feet up issue. The difference will be made on the individual level. So each one of us as consumers can start making that change. So I switched out all of my, say, plastic in contact with food, not only is plastic obviously terrible for the environment, it doesn't return to the earth, it's also off-gassing into our food, into our breathing air. So you think about the plastic containers. So I switched to glass, it was really easy to do. So talking about the small tangible things, I just jumped online, was able to very easily buy some glass food storage containers with bamboo lids. And I'll tell you what, Debbie, it felt great. And then I bought a bunch of mace and jars and it felt, you know, it reminded me of my grandmother, you know, putting things like even our cat's food we put in these little mace and we happened to make homemade cat food. But we put them in these mace and jars now instead of different plastic food storage containers. And it is something, you know, this love for one's family, how we, you know, conduct our home life. There's something about it that's very grassroots and feels very good, it's very rewarding. However, one of the examples that I love to use to let people know what power they really have is the example of how quickly we move from plastic bags in a grocery store to paper bags or bringing your own cloth bag. Check this out, right? So one day, and it was literally like one day, some 19 year old probably thought it was a great idea that, you know, plastic's just terrible. Somebody somewhere overnight, it became this movement that was very unpopular to have the disposable plastic bag at the grocery store. That caught on like wildfire, right? And it was almost overnight. And guess what? We the consumer started asking, it was very uncool to get the plastic bag. So because it was uncool, we the consumer started asking for the paper or we started bringing our cloth bag. Overnight, guess what happened? Corporations, large grocery stores started providing the paper bags. They will pivot to what the consumer wants. I promise you this, look at the straws. It became very uncool straws. They're ending up on the beaches. Now they're in the oceans. They've got the Great Pacific garbage patch, these massive islands in the ocean of plastic. And overnight, we switched from the straws to the paper straws. So we went- Sorry, I just want to interrupt and add to that. When we went camping last summer, several times, we found that there are a number of bamboo items. So if you go camping and you can't bring plates, obviously, although there is camping gear, we were able to find bamboo cutlery, which is awesome because you also throw it out. It's so strong. You can actually wash it and use it again. And I too, I will just say, I went to all glass. Nothing, you know, all my plastic went away. I agree. You don't want that in your body. Nobody wants that in their body. We don't. And we can make these changes and we can start asking for products that are different. And there are a lot of products available. And PAX also speaks of a plastic replacement. And that's one of these big ideas. And that is that everything that we are currently making out of plastic, we can instead make out of hemp cellulose. So it comes back to a small thing. Hello consumers, start asking for products made out of hemp and made out of glass and made out of bamboo. You know bamboo, you can watch it grow. You can watch it grow about a foot a day. We have it in our yard. You can actually, that's how fast bamboo is renewable. And bamboo takes, I think it's something like four times the carbon out of the atmosphere than regular trees. That I didn't know. That's very- It's incredible. Yes. That's great. That's a- Cut it down, it'll grow right back. Yeah, they're very hardy, right? I'd like to know what you do to cut them down. Cause I understand they're very, very difficult to cut. That's how strong they are. Yeah, they can cut them kind of at their little section breaks, but they are really strong. And when split the other way, and we talk about this and do onto earth, they're a fantastic building material. And in many countries, they're using bamboo for building. And what's great about it, it's so lightweight. You think about the applications that we would be better off with something lightweight. You know, you think about the, just the weight on the foundation. You think about bridge building. You think about just transporting these materials. So there are many, many advantages and we will drive these markets. We have a lot of these products. We have to start asking for them. I don't know about in Florida or in BC, but I can tell you that here in California, they stopped years ago giving out plastic bags. And even though nobody describes it as a fine, it clearly is because if you say, oh, I need a bag, I didn't bring anything with me, I will charge you. I'm sure some people just keep saying, but I don't, you know, we always have at least three canvas bags in our car. And I actually started, I had a purse made for me recently on Etsy because I love supporting artists. And I chose to get a really big purse, regular purse, but I thought, you know, if I were going to grocery store unexpected and I won't have a bag with me, I could just open this up and throw away my bag, right? And it's a win-win. And it does feel great, but you're emulating that to everyone around you. So when people see you drinking out of a glass bottle or they hear that story about the purse, I mean, this is that viral, that contagious, you know, this wave ripples into tidal waves of contagious light energy. So just you make your choices within your own life. And then the people in your circles, they see you and those circles are circles and ripples on the pond. And they, this is how we're going to change the world, raising consciousness, but working on ourselves first. So cool. What about, Carol, what about daily practices or rituals? What does Pax recommend? I mean, forever now we've been hearing, you know, meditate, I'm not making fun, by the way, I'm just saying in its way, it's become pedestrian. It's ancient and it's been the one recommendation, I would say, probably gratitude list, journaling or meditation. Is there something new that Pax is recommending that we do that will really elevate us and allow us to operate at our highest best humanity, personhood being on this planet right now? I think that comes down to our intentions. What are our intentions for our place on the planet right now? Whether it be in meditation or walking in the forest or wherever a person goes to heighten their awareness and elevate their consciousness, that is a good thing. And to consider what we can do as individuals to help our planet right now, to go within us with trust that we have all the abilities and gifts that are required to make a difference. What Pax likes to share with people is be aware that if you're thinking about making a difference globally, it will be daunting. First begin with considering what a difference you can make in your life than your family, your village, your city and ultimately globally if you so choose. And if you don't, then the smaller areas, whatever your intention is to contribute to the healing of our planet is a gift that you have that you will give to the rest of us on earth. There is no one solution for everyone, but Pax likes to share that everything we do is to be done in love, love for the planet, trust in ourselves that we will find the way, show the way for others to live in truth, in peace and in harmony. And those are the wishes of Pax. Do you feel like Carol when you speak right now, do you feel like Pax is with you? Yes, I do and that is no accident because before I joined you, I asked for Pax's presence to be with me, not to speak through me as much as to bring me the peaceful countenance, the energy that I need to be a good guest. And to have the answers. And so yes, you picked up on that. Very much, yeah, beautiful, thank you. And I'm grateful that they are here. As am I, it is my greatest blessing in this life Debbie. I can imagine to have access to a wealth of information and be able to ask anything, that is a dream. But you do, but you do. Talk about that, how? We all do, we all do. So these are our latent gifts that we come to this world with that our soul has always had through our many lifetimes. What we're doing is we're ignoring them and we're not developing them. So we all know this is a very simple thing if you're thinking about someone, all of a sudden the phone rings and it's that person. This is a form of telepathic communication. This is using senses beyond our five senses. We all do it and some of us do it to different degrees. I channel my higher consciousness. I do a form of automatic writing that I'm like, wow. Now I identify it as my higher consciousness. I don't identify it as packs or any outside source, but that this is something that we all have the ability to tap into. This is what's great about meditation. This is just one modality, but you don't have to meditate, you can just sit quietly. You can sit not quietly. You don't have to still your mind or unstill your mind. You will have spirit speak to you. Your higher self will speak to you in the shower because water conducts inspired thoughts. So there are many modalities in which that we can bring this in and we can hone it and we can practice it. Carol obviously worked for many years on metaphysics, studying different types of practices. And as a result, she got to the point where she channels in a very clear voice like she does now. I have my practices and I'm also able to tap into a higher source of wisdom. I feel extremely confident in my ability to do that. I feel that it is on call. And I know that you do that Debbie and the work that you do. And when we start to call it what it is and acknowledge it, we bring it in more. So we're welcoming it just by saying, oh, I recognize you. Well, there you are my higher self or spirit or however you would like, however it feels because that will be an energy that goes through you and you will feel it and you will know intuitively what that feels like to you, call it what you may. But we really do encourage and PAX encourages all of us to know it like you know your name. Know that you have the ability to tap into the same source. You can call that whatever you want to call it but PAX is a name that we asked for a moniker. And so we got the name PAX means peace. That same energy is available to everyone. And Carol will share the story that what PAX tells you about the energy being available to everyone. Carol, I'll let you say that. Please, because it sounds like some of what we started this show with which is that the power is here and the way to heal is through the power and utilizing the power inside of us. So yes, I'd like you to talk. Knowing that you have the power. Long ago, I asked PAX, I was questioning I cannot be the only person on the planet channeling you, can I? And he said in response to that my wisdom is there for the enlightened. Anyone can access it. But are you in flow with it? So what does enlighten mean now? Well, that probably just means that you've opened a portal, you're open-minded to it, you're accepting into your life. And we do believe that ask and you shall receive is a real thing. And I know this because through writing this book, if I didn't ask a question, Debbie, the answer wouldn't come. So I did have to sink my teeth into it because PAX wasn't just dishing out answers like dealing a deck of cards. Like I had to kind of work for it. I guess you would say in that I had to be curious. I had to be a seeker. I had to want to know. You're not gonna be, spirit will not make you, will not have you be made to know something that you don't want or you are not ready for. So when you do ask and you do seek, the answers come. And if you're seeking, whatever that is, you're seeking to become a more clear channel of spirit wisdom, of spirit voice of your higher self. Seek that then. If you're seeking to, whatever it is in your life to write a book with depth and clarity and wisdom beyond what you think you're capable of. Well, first you have to know you're capable of it, trust in yourself. But for us to ask and to seek is a great lesson for everyone. And you'll be surprised how your life will just take off. Oh, yay. That is my biggest lesson over this last two years, I would say. I just started to notice when I asked, I actually received with ease and I started to employ that whenever, whatever, I just would start to employ it. So go ask that person, go ask for what you want, ask for what you prefer. Yes. And the universe I have always thought is a 401K plan, you know? When we ask for something, they deliver and then some. Infinite supply. It is an infinite supply. Absolutely. Our back has had. And so I really appreciate this message. And yeah, it's beautiful. It's so interesting. You do your own sort of automatic writing too, and that everybody can find their way. Another thing that I want to, I really want to get to this because I'm so interested in this. Another thing that's been really relevant for me, that a conversation about multidimensionals, extraterrestrials, I love that the book gets into that and Paak shares with us in the book about alien technologies. Oh, can we talk about this? And what has been adopted by us, earthlings, if you can call us that if we're really are pure earthlings, and what has been given to us that we use that people may not realize it was a gift from another realm to us on earth. So Paak says nothing new under the sun. So whether that's our ancient ancestors which are extraterrestrials or it is the spirit world that when we get ideas when our scientists get discoveries that sometimes there's this phenomena that they can I'm going to say they the scientists all over the world could be working on something whatever that something is they're working on that for years. And then all of a sudden someone in Germany and someone in America and someone in the UK get the idea at the exact same time. So this is viral thought energy. And what happens is they're picking something up. Well, that something came from either the spirit world or could be extraterrestrial wisdom. Often it is the spirit world but Paak says that the spirit world is currently blocking our ability to have interstellar travel at the speed of light and beyond you realize we have not gotten past our own moon, right? It's phenomenal. Phenomenal in a very surprising way that if after all of these years of space travel we have not gotten past our own moon and the question is why? Paak says the spirit world is blocking our ability to invent let's say the no fuel fuel solution and that means it doesn't need a storage container or a fuel tank. It is free energy. It's the only way this will be done interstellar travel at the speed of light and currently because of our attitudes and intentions and as Carol said, everything is intention. Intention creates your thoughts. So that's how it goes, right? There's intention. Then there's the energy of thought and then there's action. So this is the domino effect. Intention is everything. And so because our intentions as a human population are often to monetize different resources for our own good including space and other planets that we are being blocked until we raise our consciousness, change our intentions overall as a human population. So when we do get the inventions, I mean, another thing is we talk about Roswell. So I asked, well, what really happened in 1947 in Roswell, New Mexico, was there a spacecraft and did it crash? And so Pax says, yes, there was a spacecraft. In fact, there were eight. One crashed, the other seven left. And as I was asking back and forth, Pax was sort of giving me these like little hints and it was kind of up to me if my consciousness was going to pick up on these hints. And as I looked at the body of work of that conversation and very diligently pouring over this because sometimes it's like philosophy you have to read between the lines. It's almost like this Indiana Jones code like if you're able to, if you're enlightened in that moment, you're gonna see it and the whole blurry picture comes together. And I saw it. I saw what he was trying to tell me without giving it to me. He was trying to let me know that we shot down the aircraft to reverse engineer it. So when you ask about technologies and extraterrestrial technologies, certainly a lot of our technologies that we're currently using in terms of the advancements that we've made in vehicles and there's reverse gravity vehicles that the governments are working with. These were reverse engineered from extraterrestrial crafts. So that was a big light bulb moment and actually it made me very sad to think of, Pax actually said that it was a planned meeting that the ETs had actually communicated with the US government plan to meet on that day with the intention by the ETs to share technology to help us at a very critical point. You think about when the industrial revolution happened of say about a hundred years ago. By 1947, we were at a crucial point. We were at a precipice. We were getting into, it was plastics. It was combustion engines and this air pollution. This was a critical moment and the ETs wanted to help us change our trajectory at that time by sharing with us technologies that you don't need crude oil. There's this, you don't need to do that. But instead that pivotal decision was made, that nefarious decision was made stemming from the intention to take, to monetize, to take what they have. And with no regard for the other beings involved and what the US government did was shoot down one of the aircraft. They did reverse engineer it. They still have parts of it to this day at area 51. One of the beings survived that crash. The others died, survived for a period of time. There were tests done on this being and they eventually succumbed to their injuries and passed from this life. It made me very sad. But to your question and to your point, all of this is a matter of us elevating our consciousness. And to raise our consciousness to the maximum level is what PACS advises us. You want peace on earth, raise consciousness. If you want peace on earth, raise consciousness in your own world and emulate that to the people around you. And what about energy tumors? This is where light energy and intention are combined. Carol, how can energy tumors help heal or heal? The energy that surrounds us, whether it be positive or negative is truly dependent upon our own intentions. Really, where we place ourselves with the people, places and things is either positive or it's dark energy. And to continue to intend that we act as a positive being and exude that to those around us in what you refer to as healing mode is controllable by us. We don't have to be victims of the dark energy, that the energy tumors, whether they be, I consider those to be the dark energy tumors around our planet that we have control over to a certain degree. I'd like to toss this to Penelope for fleshing out this answer. She has a good answer. Thanks, Carol. I'll just clarify that the viral energy tumors was what we were working on at the Viral Energy Institute before I met Carol and Pax, or I had known Carol probably by that time, but before we started working on this book and that was what do unto earth, that was the premise of do unto earth were these taking the viral energy message of my previous book, which was dealing with viral energy on the personal and interpersonal level and now taking this to the global level. So I had this idea intuitively through my own automatic rating that, wait a minute, there's more than just viral energy affecting us in our relationships, but this viral energy actually collects in masses and these masses, you could think of how certain industries around the globe would have such negativity or wars would leave such a energy scar. And so I had this idea, this philosophy that there were energy scars, but they're light energy, they're heavy energy, the dark energy is heavy energy, which is just heavy because it's toxic, it's full of stuff and particles. So basically there's only light, but heavy just means that there's all of this stuff in the way that clouds that light. So I had this idea that there were this viral energy on large scale. And yeah, we do like to focus on the heavy energy in this case, just for this topic of what to do about it, but there's also pockets of very large, large pockets of this light love energy and where does that come from? So I had these ideas that, factory farming industry, industries that pollutant dump into our oceans that are just dumping toxins into the oceans with impunity, that the wars that we've had, things going on in the Middle East for absolutely generations and hundreds and thousands of years, but these must leave. I mean, it just seemed logical to me the next step that these must leave energy tumors, energy pockets on the earth. So I brought this to Pax once we were working on this and it was something I was very interested in. And so he validated that, yes, in fact, and check this out Debbie, these tumors of heavy energy are so large that they can be seen from space is what Pax told me. And so I just did one of these, what? Seen from space. So how can I go up in a rocket and how can I see this? I was very interested as a viral analogist to take this through like, how can I study this in a tangible way? And he said that it's actually palpable would be a more accurate word than C. So it's not visually with the eye, but palpable with the senses. And it's interesting because the spirit world would not be thinking of our five senses, would they? They'd be thinking of, it's that feeling, like you know when someone walks in the room because you feel it, we know what heavy energy feels like. So the spirit world knows this by feeling and that those people who are intuitive and I believe all three of us here are would be able to sense that heavy energy so that if you were in space and you're particularly sensitive to energy or intuitive in these ways that you would in a palpable sense sense this and be able to actually beacon in on these places around the globe. So this is very fascinating to me and it's very impactful on us and our lives and the human population because then what? You know, do we really want these heavy energy pockets? Like why are these wars continuing? And there's no end in sight is there's something think about this cloud, you know that's suppressing the ability to break free and see that, you know that sun, that light. And so if we know this awareness is most of this, right? So just by knowing this it becomes now very imperative to just know it. And now that we know it, we can't unknow it and let's start talking about it. I've got dogs barking every so often. So working from home is very interesting right now. So forgive me if I turn off the sound from now and then. Thank you for sharing that. And you know what strikes me listening to that explanation Carol and Penelope is the fact that you were talking about meditation earlier and intention and how we are all actually very gifted and powerful and hearing you I'm realizing this is a beautiful easy way for people to use their innate power is to send some energy and love and healing to these energy tumors. So although there is still craziness going on on the planet over greed and over I am and you are not therefore we are different all of which I find to be quite insane but it still goes on. And I think I know many of us feel powerless. However, this is one way we can be fully empowered and create great difference is to project a lot of healing and meditative thoughts, mindfulness whatever it is of kindness and love that you can put towards this to dissipate and heal it forevermore amen. And so you, that was just an intuitive moment for you Debbie. So there's a perfect example everything you just said we talk about in do enter earth and it's actually called global viral contemplation and that is exactly the way to do it. So when we get together so this is the idea of you would say meditating maybe a better word is contemplating because you don't have to go into an altered state it's just thinking, putting thoughts, contemplation. So when we do that in groups it's more powerful we've heard that when two or more are gathered that it's a very powerful thing and this is that concept. So we can do that on our own we can send those healing love energy formations out into the world from our own beingness but when we do that together with other people say we get together and maybe once a week or once a month we have a ladies group or we're already getting together for something else or we're getting together for coffee or a glass of wine or a book club we can maybe at the beginning of your seminars with your wonderful authors you can have moments collectively of global viral contemplation for the health of the planet and unity on earth. I love that, that's great. And that is how we will change the world and as more and more of us do that guess what we're creating? Light energy pockets, right? You know, we are the antidote we are always the antidote and when we realize that and we take control of that we accept it into our lives, it will grow and we will be given the gifts and we will be given the resources and the universe will conspire to help us. Beautiful, yes. And anybody else who's listening to this should you have a group? I was thinking this is the new rotary group. Energy rotary. But yes, absolutely for my authors this is something I can employ when we get together for our monthly membership writing and what a beautiful way to start our group before I start teaching. I really love that and because they're all spiritual entrepreneurs they will totally get it and probably project great love and healing. So I'm in, I'm totally in. I have three short questions before we get to the end here and I really want to get them in. I have really enjoyed this conversation. One of the things that PAX talks about is star seeds, messenger beings. You know, there's so much mixed information out there. Some people say star seeds, okay there are people who have been placed here from other planets. They're aware of it. I've met people like this. So that's amazing to me. And there are people say no, we're all star seeds, we're hybrids. And then there's some people say, meh, star seeds don't really exist. But whatever, there is something that exists and there must be a reason why it's such a relevant and much used word right now. So as far as star seeds, messenger beings, even Jesus that PAX talks about what is important for us to know about that? How can we utilize any of that? I think the most important thing is to know that we truly are all connected. So what PAX talks about and it's very early on and due on to Earth because one of my very first questions was, some people think we're aliens to this planet because we're so out of harmony with all of nature. Like it just seems like an obvious question when you're starting this conversation. And he said, indeed you do originate from elsewhere light years away. And he goes on to say that we over the course of human history, there were many star seedings. It wasn't just one time. And it wasn't just like an initial time, this inception date. It has been throughout our human history at different levels of our evolution it has happened. And it's been going on for so much longer. You know, we think, we currently think our anthropologists think we've only been on this planet for 8,000 years. Well, no, we've been for millions of years, there have been humanoids coming and they come at different times. They still have come until recently, they're more just visiting now to buzz by and watch us from afar because of where we're kind of acting our consciousness, a sort of fear position on that. But they have come from different planets, not just at different times, but from different planets. He says, PAX says and due on to Earth that you think of these different planets, these different peoples, these different cultures who have come throughout time. And then you think of your different peoples on planet Earth, how they look different, different skin colors, different cultures, different languages. So what becomes now very important is to understand that PAX calls it, I think actually I called it in the book and PAX validates that it's the planet Earth project. So I said, oh my goodness, it sounds, because he says that this was actually that planet Earth is a very special place that there are other inhabitable planets that are very far away, mind you. But as far as this gorgeous blue and green planet, you better take care of it, because this is a very special place and peoples came from far and wide in other galaxies to this planet to see how your civilization would evolve by putting us all together, by putting all these races and different beings together, how we would make out with this. So I said, oh wow, it sounds like the planet Earth project. And he kind of said, I think he said bingo. So it is important for us to understand that since the very beginning we chose, we as our whole, you know, our relative pool, our intelligence deeply within these many, many, many, many generations, we chose this experiment, if you will. We chose unity from a very long time ago. We chose to live a life where we could come together and we're not doing such a great job right now. We still have a lot of work to do on this. So to your question, what's important, I think it's important to understand that we chose this, that it is in our differences that we will find the beauty. It's in our differences that we find even medical discoveries are found in our differences. And so to look at the differences and what is unique about each person and each population and each culture, what is unique to not try to necessarily blend everything into one, but to live together in peace and harmony, but to celebrate the uniqueness of each culture. Carol, will there be time travel in our lifetime? Oh, yes. And Pax does speak about in Do Unto Earth that we find openings, if you will, in time, in space. And we can find our way through those. We talk about parallel universes. We talk about alternatives to our present day state. And they exist and we can move back and forth between them. Are we ready to? Not so much, but absolutely it's there. It's a question of, is it my intention to want to do this and what would be my purpose in so doing? Absolutely, we are doing it. Yeah, it does happen now. Well, parallel universes, parallel lives, definitely time travel can't wait. And if it's happening, I hope to learn more. This is the conversation de jure right now. And for folks who are listening, I just want to say who are watching again, Do Unto Earth, you can get this on Amazon as well as on paxwisdom.com. And you can find out more about new Orion's and how they're showing the way for humanity at this time. I won't give much away, but there's so much more to read than we were able to talk about today. But you can hear how delicious this conversation is and has been and all the possibilities. For those of you who have been confined to your homes and trying to figure out what's next, because things clearly not only have changed, but every time I hear somebody say, I can't wait till we get back to normal. Don't think so. But I think this is the new normal and we have great possibilities for an amazing future if we'll follow a lot of what's in this book. So do get your copy. I want to ask you both, Carol and Penelope each. This is Dare to Dream. What do you next dare to dream? What are your future dreams and hopes? For me, it's peace. Peace and harmony on earth, amongst all people. And I can consistently think about John Lennon's words. Imagine all the people living life in peace. So thank you, Carol, for myself. I've got a lot of projects on the go. And I think one of the main messages to myself at this time is to fully step into that, to fully own my talents and abilities and experience, and to understand that, and this message is for everybody, you're not too old to do your big dream. You're not under qualified to do your big dream. One day you will be at the end of this life and you will be sitting there going, ah, I wish I would have done that thing. I wish I would have believed that I could or at least tried, do it, try it. The trying is the journey. It's the fun, it's not the finish line. So I would say the message that I have for myself as I'm jumping off into many exciting project is, I can do it and so can you. That's beautiful, it's true. It really is true. We're so much more capable than we ever know until we make that jump. So I can't wait to see what you both create next for folks who wanna know more, P-A-X-Wisdom.com, as well as Penelope, Jean, J-E-A-N, Hayes, H-A-Y-E-S.com, and Carol, Serene, Borgans, B-O-R-G-E-N-S.com. And I end today's show with this quote from their book, Do Unto Earth, It's Not Too Late. And the quote is this, there are no limitations when one feels liberated and able to follow their heart, their dream, and find a path to begin their journey. Even though the destination is unknown, the need to travel the path is sufficient to carry them along and through what comes. Finally, identifying the end goal is the bonus. This is our wish for your people that they individually and collectively understand that they have the power and they are the power and this power of one collectively, when combined with good intention, can move mountains. I hope you will subscribe to this number one weekly transformation conversation. If you'd like to see what we look like cause you're listening to the podcast, go to youtube.com slash Debbie Daschinger. I am a media invisibility coach. I teach you to write a page turner book. I take authors books to a guaranteed international bestseller and I show people how to be interviewed on radio and podcast and get amazing results. I run the Visibility Hub. If you would like to join our ongoing bookwriting membership, we have a few spots that just opened because people have published their books. Go to Debbie Daschinger.com slash visible visionaries. Next week on the show, I'll be featuring Don Lynch. He's a pioneer in the field of vital energy transformation. He's able to clairvoyantly see and feel the body's energies and blocks to proper flow. He can shift as many people at a time with his energy transmissions. So join us because he will be offering live demonstrations during his interview. And remember folks, don't just dare to dream, dare to turn all your dreams into your reality.