 Hello, welcome to Quok Talk. I'm Crystal. Good morning, this Tuesday morning. Look, now a lot of women, maybe men too, you know, when you get older, your body changes shape, your face changes shape, and you start getting unhappy with things, and you start wanting to change things, reconstruct, find a new you. Now, there are a lot of elements to this, right? There are a lot of questions on how to go about plastic surgery, what are the pros and cons, the consequences, and more importantly, the psychological effects. People don't really talk about that a lot, and this is what we're gonna talk about today. The psychological effects of plastic surgery, it got the amazing Dr. Claire Roundtree here with us today who's gonna talk about that, and she's a psychologist, and she's also the co-founder of the Hawaii Psychology Collective. Claire, doctor, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Crystal. I'm so excited to talk about this topic. Really? I am. Okay, so, you know, I don't know how Hawaii would differentiate with the rest of the world, and you being originally from the mainland and coming here, let's get an overview before we kind of like throw everything into the bucket, yeah? So, what are the main issues a person would have to consider when it comes to plastic surgery? And I believe you yourself have recently done a procedure. I have done several procedures, and so I think I have a unique perspective of being a doctor who can talk with people about those risks and potential benefits, but I've also been through this, and so I know the good, the bad, the ugly, and all of it. Oh, great, throw it all at us. Because it's not all just before and after like we see on TV. I think it's important to recognize that in 2015, over 15 million plastic surgery procedures were performed in the United States, and that's a dramatic increase from just 10 years ago. So, people are really wanting to take more control of themselves and how they look, and are doing these procedures more and more frequently. And there are a lot of considerations. For instance, we know that the plastic surgery procedures typically with the highest satisfaction ratings are breast lifts and breast reductions, very, very satisfactory outcomes. And is that too complicated? Well, breast reduction can be complicated, but it is such a relief post-surgery. I mean, when you're having a breast reduction, it's for a reason. Typically, you can't exercise often. Typically, it's painful. So, you really, really see a lot of relief from that particular procedure. Breast augmentation, not a complicated procedure, usually. Is it a day in thing? And you can see the results immediately. So, those have really high satisfaction outcomes. When we talk about rhinoplasty, for instance, or nose jobs, or face lifts, we see a little bit different outcomes with those type of procedures. And there are many reasons for that. Often, patients don't realize how connected they are to a particular feature of their face. This is me. I'm Dr. Roundtree. I have this nose. I have these eyes. I have these lips. That's who I know myself to be. So, while they look forward to looking better, they've made this decision. They might be excited pre-surgery. For some patients, that recovery period, especially the first 10 days or so, can be really shocking. And when you feel disconnected from your identity and who you are, you can even experience some post-op depression. Sometimes it can get pretty bad. Usually, it lifts, thankfully. But we really need to be able to share that with people so that they know this really is a factor in recovery. You think that a lot of potential patients don't consider enough the psychological consequences of it. They always just think of just all the medical. I'm absolutely convinced of it. Yeah, because nobody talks about it. Nobody talks about it. I've talked about this at link with my wonderful surgeon here in Honolulu. And I think it was rather eye-opening for him. So, he was excited to send me his patients so that I could speak with him about the nature of this. There are other things to consider, too. For instance, there's a condition in psychology that we call body dysmorphic disorder, or BDD, for short. And people who have body dysmorphic disorder really perseverate on one attribute of their being, usually their nose or their hair or their skin. Could be anything, right? Could be anything, but it's one particular feature that to you and I wouldn't look out of place. But to them, it's a very distorted view of themselves. Really, really dangerous to operate on somebody with BDD because the satisfaction rate is so low, revisions often occur. This isn't good enough. I'm on my fifth rhinoplasty now. Do people do that? They do, their nose. Oh, time and time and time again. And I think that we can, if we wanted to, we think that we could look at some celebrities that are in our midst. And we could probably understand that they've had several operations and revisions. And if you are... Like who? Who would be like the top of your list? Well, I think even though he's passed, but I think we could probably all agree, Michael Jackson had extensive plastic surgery. Even though she's passed, I think that we could all agree, Joan Rivers had a multitude of procedures. And you really, really have to be sure that you're engaging and getting whatever procedure for sound reasons. Not to change your personality, not to change your life, not to save a relationship, and not to go into your surgeon's office to look like a celebrity because those folks have some of the lowest satisfaction rates of all. So are you talking about the influence of social media that's impacted increasingly people's decisions on plastic surgery? Well, people go in wanting to look like Kim Kardashian. It used to be people wanted to have Angelina Jolie's lips. Right, right, right. And that's very dangerous because when we want to change ourselves to the degree that we want to become someone else, the risk, psychological risks for depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders is especially high. So how much responsibility does the doctor have, the surgeon, have to have that psychological experience, the background, to judge and say, hey, maybe you should be doing this? I love that you asked that question because I spoke with my surgeon about this. And I don't think the onus is on the surgeon to be psychologist. I think that it would be helpful as psychologists if we could really help educate plastic surgeons about the condition of body dysmorphic disorder, about the psychological effects for somebody who say has a personality disorder, which is quite serious. And goes in and has plastic surgery procedures. We can arm them with really useful information, but I really don't think that it's their responsibility to do my job. Right, but the whole problem with leaving it for the patient to be able to admit that they have these psychological disorders is gonna be small because the whole point is they're denying it. They're living in a different world. So how does that come across and how's that gonna help them? One of the things that we can actually do and that we can do in working with surgeons, there are some really great, pretty new in the last five to 10 years, but pretty useful screening tools, okay? Really, really useful to have these screening tools in the surgeon's office or when somebody comes to see me who's thinking about plastic surgery and they have a history of depression or they may have a personality disorder, I'll whip out a screening tool. I think that we really need to get better at doing that. Is this like a test, like a written test? There is a variety of clinical screening tools. As a psychologist, whether people have issues right off the bat, your instincts just based on your... I've been doing it 20 years. So I think that in terms of identifying symptoms and clusters of symptoms, I think I'm pretty good at it. Yeah? Yeah, I think so. That's not to say that you make a judgment and you assign a diagnosis. My role as a scientist and practitioner is to generate hypotheses and rule them out. And so I'm very cautious to do that. But gosh, I hope I'm pretty good by this point. No, I wasn't meaning to question that. But it's important to see if a patient goes in and they're seeking help, but they want to get what they want. It's not necessarily what's good for them. Yeah, and that's not my job to really make that decision for them. But what I want to be able to do with somebody who's thinking about plastic surgery is to help them really explore the reasons for wanting to get it. You have a good example, like is there like a young adult who's come to you and said they wanted something done and you really didn't think it was appropriate? Oh, gosh, sure. And I think I used to often do pre-evaluations for people, for instance, wanting their stomachs stapled and gastric bypass. What's that for? So just reducing your stomach? For people who are overweight and who have not been successful with diet and exercise, right? They want it on. Aren't they basically chiming the intestines to limit their digestion? That's one approach. Yeah, and really making the stomach much smaller. So that was very, very important for me to be able to see if these folks had a history of psychological issues in order to help ensure a realistic outcome. If somebody came to me who wanted that procedure done and said, this is gonna change my life, I'm really never gonna have to think about my addiction to food again, that's really gonna raise my red flag because your shape is going to change, your psyche is going to change, but you know what may not change is your addiction to food. We may still have to do some work on that. So again, going back to the psychology of their... Exactly. Right, okay. Exactly. Are there some more invasive plastic surgeries that you think need deeper consideration? Such a good question, absolutely. I think that it is important to differentiate, and these are in general terms, there's exceptions to everything, but when we think about procedures to the body, have a little liposuction, which these days, a lot of people can go in and have what's called smart liposuction or slim liposuction, so laser liposuction, and you're back to work in a day or two. All right, okay. Really, for most people, no big deal. Again, breast augmentation, very, very high satisfaction outcomes. So I think those things typically will not necessarily promote the serious psychological issues, typically, that we would see with far more invasive procedures. Oh, I know one. I've read about vagina plastic. Is that what it's called? When they actually, they're not happy with what they look like down there? Yeah. How do they even do that? Well, so for women who've had multiple children, and sometimes even for women who've had no children, they're not pleased with the appearance of their labia, majora, and minora, and so they will have that surgically altered. They can also actually do a vagina plastic internally to tighten things up, especially for women who've had multiple children. Right, I have a friend in Hong Kong who had five children, and she actually had the surgery to reconstruct her, what do you call it, the flap before the, you know, before the cervix, the uterus. Before, you're like, you're a virgin, you know. Yeah, the hymen. People actually do that for the sake of sexual pleasures for their partners. That's a great point too, and so as a psychologist, that's something I would also want to ask. Who are you doing this for? I guess. What's the reason? And a lot of people will say initially, I'm doing it for myself. Who else would I be doing it for? Can you tell when they're lying? Well, it's not about them lying. It's really about me just pursuing in a clinical nature some more questions. Okay. Because sometimes people may really believe, I'm just, I feel great about myself. I'm just doing this for myself, but that may be true, and that's great, but it's my job to help them go a little deeper. Well, you know, that's a great way to kind of self-reflect, is to ask yourself those questions that Dr. Roundtree is providing for us today. Like, what do you feel, or why are you not happy with your body and what you should do? Ask yourself more questions. Let's give you a little time for contemplation on this quick break, and we'll come back, we'll continue talking about the psychology of plastic surgery. Hi, my name is Kim Lau, and I'm the host of Hawaii Rising. You can watch me every other Monday at 4 p.m. Aloha. We invite you to join us on our Keys to Success show, which is live on the ThickTech Live Streaming Network series weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m. My name is Danilia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. Our goal for Keys to Success is to provide a platform for professional and personal development tools and profound insights on how to achieve success in life, career, and all business. We have incredible guests from all walks of life, including politicians, successful business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs, and authors. As this is a live show, there are live mess ups as well, which are fun to watch. Aloha, and we'll see you on Thursday. Welcome back to Quok Talk, talking about plastic surgery and the psychological aspects of it. Now, obviously we're bringing out a lot of issues here. We're not advocating plastic surgery. We're giving you, you know, your own choices, but it's really good to reflect and to review and to know, to have knowledge of all the aspects of it. So we've got here Dr. Claire Roundtree, who is a psychologist. But also, if you didn't touch this when I started, is that Claire also is a patient. So today, right now, you're gonna wear your Claire Roundtree hat. Take off that Dr. Hat. As a patient who's had several procedures, can I ask you about that and what you've done or what, did you dabble with something little first or, you know, is it an addictive process or what, tell me about yourself. Absolutely. Well, I think the nature of addiction to plastic surgery is really a separate topic. So, there's psychological reasons for that for sure. But so in my 20s, I had a breast reduction. And my satisfaction with that really was, in some respects, life-changing for me. I was an athlete. I was just a total tomboy. I'd love to be outside. And it was painful. See, that's what people don't realize, especially guys out there. You have no idea. If you're running with two watermelons, it is not fun, right? I wouldn't know, but... It's not fun. It really impeded my ability to do a lot of the things that I wanted to do. And I also had an issue with asymmetry. So I had the best outcome possible for that operation. And that was the first thing I ever had done. How long did it take you to decide on that? And did you consult your mother? What was that? It's funny that you said that. I did consult my mother at the time, or always. I did. I said, you know, I'm thinking about doing this. And Lucky for me, she was so supportive. I also did my homework, though. I didn't rush to the first surgeon. I'm a researcher by nature, obviously. So I just had a fantastic outcome. So I went through my 20s, happy gal, doing my thing. Didn't really think too much about doing anything through most of my 30s. But more recently, I'm 45 now. And about two or three years ago, I could really, for me, start seeing some changes, especially around my eyes and my neck. And I didn't rush to do anything. I was very methodical. You're looking in the mirror every day going, that's not fair. Do I want to do this? Do I not want to do this? So I started feeling that my insides and how great I felt and the energy level I have, really wasn't matching with my outsides. So gravity was happening. But it was happening at a rate that I just, I wasn't too happy with. And going back to your first opening statement was, you want to be in control. And that's where the decisions come. Absolutely. So I wasn't doing this for a partner. I wasn't doing this to look like Kim Kardashian. I wasn't doing this because I thought, oh my god, I'm going to come out of surgery and have a brand new life. I love my life as it is. So it wasn't like a mid-life thing. This was for me to really say it's something I want to do. I think that it's going to help me look more the way I feel. And so I interviewed nine surgeons from Beverly Hills, different parts of LA and locally. I think that's really important to do your due diligence for anybody considering surgery. Even though I knew, really I did know who I thought I would go with. And I ended up going with Dr. Shim Ching here in Honolulu. And I cannot sing his praises enough. Good. He's an outstanding surgeon. It was still my responsibility to take the time, ask probably hundreds of questions. I'm sure the doctors were sick of me by the end of those consultations because it was a big decision. So eventually, I ended up having my facial surgery the end of May. It was 11 hours of surgery. So you're under for that amount of time. I was under for 11 hours primarily because of my neck. It was very complicated. What do they do? Sorry, can you just explain it? Do they pull back? I really can explain it in such simple terms because it involved my salivary glands. They were so enlarged. And so it gave me a very bulked-up appearance in my neck. I mean, it was incredibly complex in my first surgery. So that's really what took the longest. In fact, most of this really is microsurgery internally. I did have my eyes done. I also got a brow lift, a full face lift. All at the same time. All at the same time. I thought if I'm going to do this in consultation with my surgeon, that was the route that I chose to go. And you knew that you're going to be out of works for weeks afterwards. I knew I was prepared to take off about three and a half weeks. Could have taken off a month. That would have been a little better. So I had that done. And I really do want to talk about how brutal the first week, especially if recovery was, because nobody talks about that. I've seen the shows where they do the operations and they have these gorgeous people who change their faces and they're all bandaged up and then they take it off the next day and they're in pain. But let's hear it from you. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have to say that in the week, seven to nine days, especially after surgery, I was incredibly emotional from the anesthesia, from the way that I looked. Staples, sutures, drains. You just really can't imagine. And the amount of swelling. And I didn't even bruise. But the amount of swelling was, I told my partner I literally looked like the bride of Frankenstein. And that's how I felt. So I did experience that disconnect that I spoke about earlier. I would look in the mirror and think, my God, what if this never goes away? Right, I was gonna say, were there consequential thoughts? Terrifying. I was terrified, really. And I had great support, okay? Great support. And I still felt this way. So my first couple of follow-ups during those first seven to nine days, I was in the office crying. Oh, is that the psychological aspect that's actually quite common? I don't know that it's common, but certainly it's something, because I talked to my surgeon and his associates and it's certainly something that, yes, they've seen before. Okay, so it's not unexpected. And part of it may be the anesthesia, leaving the body also. Oh, so how does anesthesia affect emotion? Because you said you were very emotional. It affects everybody very differently. But I was under for 11 hours. That's crazy, yeah. So it takes a while for that. So you couldn't drink for a while. Oh, God, you don't want to. But you want to, too. You don't, you do not even think about that. Okay. So that first week was really rough. And I feel like I kind of almost had a very many existential depression. And then as the sutures came out and the staples came out, by the second week you, I started having a glimmer of hope. Okay. Oh my gosh. The second week you said. Yeah, which is really pretty quick if you think about it, right? I guess. I think so. Okay. Given 11 hours of surgery. So you're on week two and you start feeling better. But I think people really need to know that they're not going to undergo these procedures and look dynamite by day three. Yes. Yes. You know, at that moment, I think a lot of people don't, when reality hits, when shit hits the fan. Oh, you know, just the moment where you have to face the change. I think nothing is more brutal than seeing the actual outcome. Now, why don't we take this moment because Zuri, my pal inside the panel, Zuri, the engineer, producer, Kim, Zuri, are you here? I'm here. I would love to bring you on right now because Zuri's a young gal. In her 20s. And it'd be great to hear your kind of a perspective on plastic surgery. Have you have any questions for Dr. Roundtree? You know, I have so many questions. I wish we gave her an ear piece and you know, it'd be great to be more planned but we think on our feet. So I want you to ask her about her plastic surgery if she felt pressured by society. So her question was, do you feel pressured by society? Aging. Aging. I think that I would be lying if I said there was no pressure sociologically because I don't know, I don't know in contemporary society how to get away from that. But was it my guiding principle to get this work done for myself? Definitely not. And I had to make sure of that. At the end of the day now, when I look in the mirror and I'm still healing, I'm only two and a half months out. That's incredible. And this will take a year. Really? So I'm still swollen. You look amazing. I'm so happy with my decision and I'm so proud of the research I did. Right. And I feel great and I'm so happy I did it at the age I am and now I don't have to think about it. Well, but then going forward, you know, you may have different phases. Well, who knows what's gonna happen tomorrow. Right, exactly. Exactly, you walk it. You know. But Zuri, you're a young girl. So how do you feel about that? Do you, I mean, you know, when you're young, you don't, you're fearless, you're flawless, you know, I hate you. Right. Have you thought about, you know, what would you do when you get to that point, when things start to sag? You know, I actually used to watch a lot of the plastic surgery shows. I watch a lot of plastic surgery shows. And right now I'm actually a Sephora Vib Rouge. I don't know if you know what that means, but it means you spend way too much money on makeup and skincare products. Do you think people spend too much money on makeup and products? I definitely do. And it's to avoid plastic surgery. Oh, okay. Because I'm so worried about falling prey to society. So I'm wondering, can you ask our doctor here, how does she know if she truly did it for herself? Or, you know, if she really fell prey to society? Deeper into the society question is, how do you know you really didn't do it for society and then you did it for yourself? How do I know? Well, I think I can distinguish that because when I think about who I am and my personality and the human being that I am and how I live my everyday life and where I go and what I do and how I feel inside, what I can say is that I'm genuinely happy that my outside at this moment is matching how I feel inside. So some of the thoughts that I really don't typically have for instance, Zuri would be, oh gosh, do I look better than her? Oh God, how old is she? That's really not a big part of my thought process. What is a big part of my thought process is, this was the right thing to do for me. And I think it's really important, and I know it, and I think it's just really important to distinguish. And again, you know, to answer Zuri's question, I don't really know how to tease out the truth as far as to what degree is women in particular were influenced by society, some more than others, obviously. I think that's when we get into people who are addicted to plastic surgery. Yeah, that's another topic. It's another topic. That is a whole other topic. Before we go away, Crystal, I just wanna ask you, what are your thoughts on plastic surgery? And I'm gonna get out of your hair and just enjoy. Thank you, Zuri, for your final question about me and what I feel about it. Again, I think, again, different phases. You know, when I was 20, I didn't think anything of it. And now that I've just turned 50, yeah. Like, do you, you know, I look in the mirror or I've interviewed doctors who say, oh, yeah, you could do a little lift here, that'd be nice. And I was like, oh no, don't do that. I don't want this self-critique because I don't even want a mirror because then that will get me thinking. And that's what happens a lot. And I look at my 13-year-old daughter who's already so, I mean, that's part of the age, right? Sure. So self-conscious and thinking she's fat and all that. But where does that go wrong? And how much, like Zuri saying, she buys all these products to prevent from having to do plastic surgery later. Does all those things help? I don't know. But yeah, you know, it's a tough one, Zuri. I wanna feel like I still don't wanna need it, but yeah, it's a tough one now because it's so accessible now. It's accessible. I think you just have to be smart. You have to know yourself and you have to know why you're making whatever decision you're making for you. That's really at the end of the day what it's about. And have realistic expectations. It's not gonna change your life. Okay. It's not gonna change your lives, ladies and gentlemen, to know what you're dealing with, do your research, all that stuff. So in our last minute of time, Dr. Roundtree back to your professional hat is to want me to give a little bit of, you know, suggestions or important questions we need to ask to do it or how to seek advice even from your practice and whatever else we should know. Absolutely. Thank you, Crystal. Well, as Crystal said, I'm the co-founder of the Group Psychology Practice, Hawaii Psychology Collective. We have a myriad of providers specializing in eating disorders and body image and mood disorders. Pretty much you name it. And you can reach us at 840-0787 if you're interested in scheduling an appointment. And for any of the viewers out there who are contemplating plastic surgery and may have questions or want a consultation from myself, feel free to call me at 489-5919 or you can go to my website, which is roundtreepsychology.com. Thank you so much for your time, Dr. Roundtree. And again, take this with you and, you know, again, it's a little bit of a reflective topic because it's not so much just the procedure per se. There's so much psychology behind it and this is just the tip of the iceberg of things that we should consider before we take any big actions, right? Yes. But really appreciate you sharing your own personal experience. That's wonderful. Thank you. You do look wonderful. I can't believe there's only been a couple of times. But it's promising. And thank you for tuning in and you can check us out when we put it onto YouTube. But look at our website on Think Tech Hawaii. Thank you for your time. See you next Tuesday.