 For many, 1947 was a pivotal point in history. But what if the real pivot point was 780,000 years before that? Why is the australite tectite at the center of a mystery? There is an asteroid bombardment. There is no crater. A large craft had been destroyed in space. Such conclusive evidence, NASA scientists went to great troubles to see if they could replicate this. Homo sapiens are genetically engineered. Diverged 780,000 years ago. How do we come about? What is a human? What is our origin? Why are we here? That's a clip from a little skeptical movie project episode kind of experiment that I've put together with Bruce Frenton who you'll hear from today. And Sean Fahey who was the guy who really did all the work behind it. Although Bruce and Danny did a lot of the work too. Anyways, I am so excited about Bruce's work and I always have been. In the last interview we did, I thought was just terrific. And then I ran into the Snake Brothers, Russ and Kyle Allen of Brothers of the Serpent podcast. And I kind of got them interested in it. And they're interested in doing a series of interviews on this topic. So as kind of a way of launching that little project, I invited everybody here on Skeptico. And here's what we came up with. Welcome to Skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I'm your host Alex Cares. And today we welcome back Bruce Fenton to Skeptico. Bruce is the author of Exogenesis, Hybrid Humans, a Scientific History of Extraterrestrial Genetic Manipulation. And also the Forgotten Exodus, the Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution with a forward by Graham Hancock, which is quite impressive. And because I thought Bruce's work was so fantastic, innovative, and important, as you know, if you listen to that first interview that I did with him, he's also featured in this upcoming, not even upcoming, it's out. That's what we're going to talk about today. This extended video slash movie we did called 780,000, Our Alien Origin Story, which is available right now. You can go watch it on YouTube for free. It's soon going to be on Amazon as well. If we can ever get it up on that platform, which is, I don't know, they're saying they need more time. So give them all the time they need. And we're also joined today by Russ and Kyle Allen, the creators and hosts of Brothers of the Serpent podcast. Just a very, very cool show. You know, I was on their show recently, and I really, really enjoyed the way these guys dig into this. We have kind of a similar perspective on it, although they are much more well versed in kind of these ancient mysteries kind of things. So I thought it'd be great to have them on along with Bruce and kind of do like a little launch party for this video, 780,000, and for Bruce's excellent book. You know, an opportunity to get on and talk about some stuff. And we were all just having a chat, you know, before they, before we hit tape rolling and it was super, there's so many interesting things to get to. So Bruce, first of all, to you, welcome back. Thanks for joining me. We've talked so many times during the making of this film, and it's been just great working with you. So thanks for coming on. Thanks for having us. Thanks for working with us on the film production. You're really cool. Yeah, it was really cool. It was really great. And you know, the only regret is Danny, your wife and your co-researcher on this had such a great contribution. And I think people could, we'll get that from reading the book and they'll maybe know. And I think it also maybe comes in in the interview you did and that we referenced to it, but she's awesome. And it was just so cool getting to know her as well. So we'll talk to her to do some sort of video chat with you or something or, you know, so that she can give you her overview another time as well. That's good. I like sneak that in. And that's how we're going to do it. Hey, and then Russ and Kyle, I want you guys to, hey, I don't know if you can see this, but I am wearing my, hey, look at that. My snake t-shirt in honor of you guys and the hat, just to trigger anyone who could possibly be triggered by the American flag. I didn't have any agenda. I just put a flag in my hat, but I know that's still going to trigger people. So you guys, so cool having you here. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thanks so much for having us looking forward to this interview. Yeah, it was a blast having you on our show, Alex. And we're really, we're really glad to be here on Skeptico with Bruce. So Bruce, do you want to take it kind of from, take it from the top, if you will, on, you know, these two books, what they're about in for someone who really doesn't know is just kind of dropping into this conversation, kind of a quick overview of what's going on with these two books that you wrote. Exigenesis and this into Africa book, which I know you wrote a few years ago, but I think it's like such a great, important piece of this puzzle as well. And we're going to play some clips from 780,000 that will highlight that, but just kind of the overview for the uninitiated. Sure. Just bear in mind that my quick overview sometimes is about 60 hours long on anything. All right, true, true. But no, I'll try and condense it down. But yeah, the two books do sort of connect, you know, the, the into Africa book really was part of a project that I got involved with where I went to a site out in the jungles in Ecuador. The site was rather mysterious. It wasn't clear who built it. There were indications based on nearby archaeology that it could relate to the Lagoa Santa people. Now they are known from sites down in Brazil, notably the Lagoa Santa site, but also a number of other sites across Brazil and even in other areas as well. Because we know that they have sites going back at least 20, 30, you know, depending on who you are, perhaps 40, 50,000 years ago. There, there've been finds across parts of more central Ecuador, including the Banyosta, Agua Santa, which is near, the town nearest to this site that have, you know, cave sites where they have found remains that appear to be Lagoa Santa. So we know that for some reason these people are trekked up through the jungles of Brazil, you know, up through the Amazon and into Ecuador. And so there's, I believe there's a whole lost story there, you know, civilization throughout the jungles. I mean, obviously there's all sorts of legends about lost cities in the Amazon jungle. We know they're not just stories because some of these are getting found as well as mound sites and all sorts of other constructions. In fact, we know that the Amazon jungle is essentially seems to be a sort of a market garden that went wild. There's a lot of, there's a lot of trees and plants and it suggests that it was, in some respects, deliberately planted in parts and then it went kind of wild. Now this, this indicator of the Lagoa Santa led me into the work of, into Africa work because it turns out these are kind of Australoid people or, you know, they appear to be of morphology of Australian aboriginals or Papuans. Now, what are these people doing down in South America 20,000, 30,000 years ago? See that, that is an implicit argument against the prevailing models of how America was first inhabited. So when we sort of dig deeper into that, you know, you have to kind of explain, well, how are these people in the Americas so early, if we have an out of Africa story with, you know, 55,000 years ago, modern humans first emerging from Eastern Africa, populating Eurasia, eventually reaching Australia and then the Americas. And then conversely, if it turns out that you've got modern humans in the Americas 40,000 years ago and that they're aboriginal type people, that really doesn't fit. Okay, hold on, let me interject with a clip from the movie. There's very obviously a cultural shift underway which fits diffusion rather than sudden emergence. This is precisely what the genetic data is telling us, that a new paper has just come out, in fact, about a week ago, and they have found that the y-chromocernal lineages of all Eurasian people points to a migration out of Southeast Asia and East Asia 55,000 years ago. Where's Africa in that story, right? This is hugely problematic. A 2018 paper looking at the MT DNA, the mitochondrial lineages, they found that the oldest variants of haplogroups M and N, which are considered foundational to all modern Eurasian people, those turn out to be aboriginal Australians, right? Nowhere near the Middle East, nowhere near where they think that these new haplogroups are appearing, you know, East Africa and the Middle East. So you've now got the female and male lineages seeming to arise somewhere in Oceania or East Asia, right? Okay, I'll pause it there. Eric, we could go on and on. I love the way you present this stuff, you know, and we were chatting, like all of us were chatting, and I really like the point that Russ made about he appreciated the science-y part of it, and I did too, from the first time we talked, you know, it's like that's the barrier, those are the shields that are up, it's like this guy's coming out with some pretty wild-sounding stuff, you know, like the whole out-of-Africa thing is total bonk, all the best science doesn't prove that to me, show that to me, and I kind of lay it out. Okay, I'll prove it to you. Here it goes, do you want to elaborate on that either when you guys, Russ or Kyle? Well, unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with his out-of-Africa book. The one that I've studied the most is the exogenesis one. So some of this information is newer to me, but what I was specifically speaking about was, you know, in your book you sort of intertwine the intuitive information with, and then you go digging for the data. Now, I found that a fascinating way to do the research, but it's harder for me to, like, you know, you say, okay, so we have these ideas or this person had this dream or this other thing, and then you go looking for information and you find it in the scientific data. That was the part that I found fascinating. So that's basically what I was meaning when I was saying that I had a harder problem with the intuitive part. But then once you got into the science, I'm like, okay, there we go. Fair enough. Kyle, do you have any thoughts on the out-of-Africa part of that? Because, you know, in this larger story that we're going to tell in this interview and in this film, the exogenesis is the story of our human origins are traceable by science that Bruce has discovered to 780,000 years ago. And to me, that kind of shifts our focus. It's not just like a date. It, like, totally changes the paradigm that we would be contemplating. Even some of the crises that we're going through now, it kind of forces you to shift your focus and say, wow, how does this really fit in? And I think it also, that's why I wanted to start with the out-of-Africa thing, is we get hung up on Africa and the migration into, out-of-Africa. What, 70,000 years ago or whatever? Bruce is talking about 780,000 years if we ever let him get to that story. But first, Kyle, do you have any thoughts or have you ever looked into the Africa, out-of-Africa, into Africa? Because Bruce's thing is like, look, if you really are honest about looking at the data, yeah, there's a movement out of Africa, but it's after a movement into Africa. So these people were escaping from an ecological disaster and they moved into Africa. And then you guys picked up the trail later on when they moved out and you said, oh, that's it. That's the event that, and then he goes and looks, finds all this archaeological data that predates that. And he goes, well, then obviously, that was just the second leg of the journey. So I don't know, Kyle, have you looked into that at all, or do you have any thoughts? Yeah, just a little bit. I think generally there are some obvious problems with it, just based on some of the stories that I've followed. But the genetic trail is something that's really hard for me to wrap my brain around, how they follow this genetic trail. But yeah, there's been some pretty recent stories where they're finding stuff in Europe and saying, wait, how is this possible? Our story about the out-of-Africa, should have, like these people or this thing that we're finding should be here at this time. So yeah, I think there's definitely some legitimate questions. And I'm coming into this thing cold as far as your work, Bruce, but I'm looking forward to reading your books. So yeah, very interested to hear. And also we have followed pretty closely a lot of the quote, unquote, anomalous finds in the Americas of much more ancient peoples. Kyle and I, I think I would say that we focused our study on younger, driest period and afterwards in terms of the human origin story, because that's, you know, we're looking at this more recent period. So when you take it all the way back to 780,000 years, I'm like, okay. Yes. Yeah, this is way more interesting. And there are finds in the Americas that are too old. The Clovis first model has been destroyed, basically. I mean, there are some people that are still clinging to it. But yeah, there are plenty of finds here that I think ruin that story for them. Absolutely. Yeah. So Bruce, let's just wrap up this into Africa, out of Africa. What are we living off here that people should come to understand through your work that's important to the bigger story? One thing I suppose is it kind of reminds us that, you know, if we're talking about where does this story start? Again, you have to decide, you know, what is a human and what is important to the human story, all these kinds of concepts. Because if you say, where does our lineage start? Well, it starts with a single celled organism 4.5 billion years ago in the ocean somewhere. So I mean, where do we trace to, where do we start in the human story? So if you are taking it just from the genus Homo, then that appears to emerge first in Africa. But then if you trace it back to, you know, earlier hominins, some of those appear to be in the Mediterranean region now. They're finding fossils to suggest perhaps the earliest hominins might have been there. And if you go back to when was the first kind of primates that they're tracing these back down to East Asia and the jungles there. So there is a degree of where do you want to start the story? Right. Now, if we're dealing with Homo sapiens, then that's where I say that, you know, I argue that their story begins 780,000 years ago. So again, so someone can sort, you know, you can kind of say, well, where are you starting this? And that's important to where we are looking geographically and what kind of human we're looking at. Right. So it does shift. And I think the, the out of Africa and the, the greater evolutionary story kind of informs us of that timeline, that narrative, but then we have to choose from it what is important. And obviously the, the newer book really is a focus more on Homo sapiens and our story. Yeah. So that's where we should go. I don't want to hold back or like bury the lead here. Tell us about the shift to 780,000 years ago and why you think that needs to be taken seriously, how you originally kind of came to even entertain the idea. And then specifically, and that's what we really tried to capture in our previous interview on skeptico and in this new release of 780,000 is how you proved it. Cause you went about proving it as in NASA documents, archaeological finds, you know, published work, you proved it in that way. So tell us that the big picture there. Yeah. I mean, well, one of the interesting things that happened and it's again, it's still quite recent. You know, it's funny how sometimes synchronous events flow because until very recent in the last few years, it was understood that Homo sapiens emerged around about 400,000 years ago, something like that, that we split off from Nanda Falls and, you know, but then they found the oldest DNA ever from any humans, which came from a sign Spain called Simigalus wesos, the pit of bones. And they managed to get a sample of DNA that was about 430,000 years old. And it turned out that that was from an early Nanda full ancestor. And really it was so far along the, the evolutionary roots becoming Nanda falls, we don't understand that it pushed back the split between Nanda falls, us and Denisovans all the way back to at least 550 to 750,000 years ago. So it was like a massive rewrite. Since then there's been other studies. There's a comparative study of different craniums and drawers, teeth that pushed it to around 900,000 DNA sampling of Denisovans suggesting 800,000. I mean, some of these days, they're never absolutely precise. They give you a range. But in the middle of these ranges, you keep coming to around this 800,000. And now that ties in nicely with cranium finds that we already had in the record we showed around 800,000 years ago. Hold on because we are kind of burying the lead on people. And I get that you can't tell the story and that we're trying to squeeze it down. But you started with 780,000 because you were, you were told, you were told that this information was passed to you again. And as Russ said, in a way that we're not comfortable with, you know, it's into the metaphysical and the psychic and the stuff like this. And it gets into connection with. El Trianga objects that somehow have an ability to communicate all this kind of crazy stuff. So I think you immediately go to the science stuff because we love that we all love that we want to hear that you can back it up. But we are kind of burying the lead because you started with this information whispered in your ear, if you will. That said, it all started 780,000 years ago. Now you, Bruce, need to go prove that. And you did. Yeah, that's the interesting. Yes. We could say it's down the other way. So I'm giving you the what's happened since we got that day. The funding and science has come in to match it. You're right that we already had a date that we were looking at. And at the time when that information, the idea that there was events 780,000 years ago coming to us via an interaction between an individual in Australia named Valerie Barrow and an artifact, which is a considered to be a highly sacred artifact of the R&T people who language group that centers around Central Australia, Urugu, some of the regions around there, that they have these artifacts, which their own law says are embodiments of beings from the first time, the creation time, the Outringer time, that these are literally living entities in a form that will persist against time and where. And that they took on those forms in that creation. And that these carry information down through the ages. And they are usually, you know, they're kept in caves. They kept away from people. They can only be handled by the elders. They were called clever fellows. We basically what we think of as shamans who are the only people can interact with these because they're so highly sacred, but possibly for other reasons. It may even be dangerous. I mean, there's an indication that a lot of people be scared of these. They wouldn't really want to go near them. Now, I suggested this could be something like a Bracewell probe, which is an extraterrestrial technology, which would be left on a planet. Hypothesized kind of sci-fi idea that, Hey, if you're going to explore space, what you might do is just shoot these probes out there, have them land and then come to life and wake up and you know, echo, tell me what time it is kind of thing. And that this is kind of like that because it starts spewing out all this information about what's going to happen in the world and what you need to do. And then it starts working your way into your dreams and into Danny, your wife's dreams and other interactions. And you have this in the in 780, you know, you tell about where you're almost brought to tears by the fact that what you're finding is matching what you've had these visions of for so long. So it's again, this blending of the science with this extra extended consciousness kind of input that you're getting, which really is so fascinating. Yeah, that was years before in 2002, around 2002 that I've had an experience doing a sort of shamanic journey, altered state journey in which I'd experienced myself as being an entity, a tall human identity on a craft coming towards the earth, knowing that there'd been some kind of an event in which a lot of other fellow beings had been destroyed, feeling that as though being there, not like, you know, a conventional memory, experiencing it that you're there, it's you, this is happening now, that you're aware of what's just happened and all of that. And that lasted probably for a couple of minutes just now I had no context for it. You know, it's 2002. And then all these years later, sort of in 2013, I first became aware of this, this story, you know, from Valerie Barrow and her book, you know, through research in Australia, just to clarify that her work was published in 2003 around the time that I was having that experience, funnily enough. So it may even been the same sort of time which was writing the book, which is kind of intriguing. And that that meshed up with the information in her book that there was these beings in craft coming down from this exploded mothership. A lot of beings had died, even the clothes I was wearing meshed up to the descriptions in her book. So it was bizarre. Now, you know, you could classically say, you know, past life memories, but at the same time I'm also aware that, you know, you could explain that in other very strange ways. You know, is there an alien technology packing into people's brains? You know, is there a spiritual entity that telepathically telling people this? You can go down lots of wormholes, but the problem is it was a very extraordinary experience, which then linked to information I wouldn't be privileged to for another decade or so. And it turns out that beyond that, that there's actual evidence that supports both of these accounts. So it's extraordinary flow of information events. I've written about questions I want to ask about exogenesis, but they are kind of, I mean, like unless somebody's read the book, they will have no idea what we're talking about. So maybe, maybe we won't do that on this show, or maybe I can try to get into some of it based on stuff you say, but I think, I don't know, Alex, how do you want to handle it? Do we assume that people who are listening to this are familiar with the work? I apologize if it's somewhat disjointed or if it moves us too far in the story, but I'll play a clip from the 780,000 movie and then we'll hear from Bruce next. Sound okay, guys? Cool. Now, of course, there's a much bigger story here and credits of Valerie, you know, she details all of that in her book, which people can read. But my interest was in these major events, because I felt there was the potential to be signatures in the geological records and in, you know, academic papers that I could go away and look for evidence of this. Suddenly, I had an understanding of a whole series of synchronous events in my life, going back years. Now, going all the way back to the events in around 2002 when I'd had this shamanic journey experience where I'd seen, you know, an alien craft basically coming in towards the Earth. Now, Bruce, maybe you could give folks a high-level recap of what you thought you might be able to prove. So, I mean, yeah, from the event that we just discussed already with what I had happened to me, see that you could say influenced me to take more seriously Valerie's accounts in terms of what was in her book, which is that there is a craft that comes here, a crystalline craft, which is destroyed in orbit, vast, you know, not to like a little tiny flying saucer, this is said to have had 50,000 beings on board, very large craft, with smaller craft on board, is destroyed in orbit. There is just a, well, there's a few that survive, they come down, but they are involved in genetically modifying existing hominins on this planet to sort of upgrade them, if you like. And at five years later that there is an event involving a multi-directional asteroid impact of this planet that is engineered by extraterrestrials. Now, these were free, obviously radical and enormous, kind of, impactful events in our history if they were real. So, they stood out to me as being potentially provable in ways that most things aren't, you know, so we said that there was a being and he did this, he did that. Okay, you're not going to find the bones, you know, of that, you know, if there's something on a big scale, something exploding in orbit, meteorites impacting, you know, modification of the genome, those three things stood out to me as being potentially evidential. So, one of the things we talk about a lot in the film is this of tech-tight thing. And maybe you want to tell people a little bit about high level and then get into the details of what is tech-tight and why it was a real mystery. It was a mystery in science in general before you even decided to look into this and then what is the mystery surrounding them? Why is it so important to this story? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to be honest, in some respects, the Australite mystery, you know, is deserving for all analysis on its own, irrespective of any stories about, you know, visitations and genetic engineering or any of that. Because you have there a event which has been known to science for a hundred years, not explained away, despite all kinds of teams of, you know, geologists, physicists, master engineers, all sorts of people have thrown their minds at this because we have something that's happened seven to eight thousand years ago, it's been well dated. We have this creation of this material, this Australite tech-tight spread all across this vast region from Antarctica up to southern China. You know, this absolutely huge enormous debris field, right, which does not mesh with any known impact events. I mean, we have impacts of metrites and asteroids and stuff throughout history. We don't see this kind of debris field. We also have this mysterious material which not only is it quite clearly this glass-like tech-tight, but in some instances you have it in this button forms where it definitely has traveled through the upper atmosphere and entered into our atmosphere and had secondary melting on its way down. They actually look kind of like little flying saucers. They do, ironically, yeah. And it's not even so ironic when you break it down, which you do just beautifully. So again, you know, if you think of a craft design, like a nose cone of a rocket, it's dealing with the aerodynamic forces entering our atmosphere. So that's why we see this. And so again, if you're looking at spaceships, whether human or extraterrestrial, there's probably some sense to the fact you see these kind of shapes. Because again, if you're entering atmospheres in a conventional sense, that you would have aerodynamic shaping. Yeah, and there's another interesting thing about them is that they had a two-stage shaping process that you sort of detail in the book that they appear to have started out as spheres, and a crystalline sphere can't form on the ground in the sense that it won't be a sphere. You know, liquid spheres form in space in a zero GA environment. And then it has a secondary shaping process which is the reentry part where the sphere is sort of reshaped into this aerodynamic shape. And even you were saying in the book that NASA studied some of these shapes to make their reentry vehicles, because they were they were set up for the reentry affecting the atmosphere. Yeah, from my understanding, they sort of realized these teams were involved in designing these vehicles. They obviously noticed the similarity that this kind of looks like it has that look of having entered the atmosphere. So they were very intrigued and very interested. And that's how NASA sort of got involved with it. And there have been various NASA associated studies of australite tech types by different people. They basically concluded that it has to have come from a source body that was in orbit that had superheated in some way, you know, reduced to a molten liquid glass and that that then calls into these spheres as you said, and that then as these enter and they have to enter quite slowly at a fairly gentle angle that they can't, you know, they don't come in fast and hot like we have with meteorites and asteroids that these have to come in at a fairly gentle angle. And that's why we have the time for secondary melting and the running of a liquid glass to the back forming these shapes. And everything that comes in very, very fast and at a steep angle. What happens instead is you have the evaporation of the surface layers and extraordinary heat from the friction and that just evaporates off. You don't really get much liquid. That liquidation process can't really happen unless you have a gentle slow entry. That ties into what you're just mentioning there, Bruce, and I don't want to gloss over it because there's like a million points here. We can't possibly cover them all today folks, but this idea of an orbiting object, which is really strange because, again, I didn't know this stuff. I learned it from you, but you can't have an orbiting object that doesn't fit the profile of a spacecraft. I mean, nothing else, I'm saying that backwards, but nothing else fits that profile of an orbiting object quite as nicely as this large crystalline object that you're talking about. Yeah, essentially, you have to get into extraordinary mathematical odds for the Earth to capture any significantly large body. It's so unlikely that in many mainstream sources I looked at, they just discount it. Others say that it's just within the realms of possibility if something came in at exactly the right angle, the right size. There's so many considerations. Essentially, we don't expect this to happen. That we have very small objects, car sized asteroids and things like that, which do get captured. And respectively, large planets like Jupiter and Saturn, they sometimes capture larger asteroids and comets, temporarily usually. But Earth, it's not expected to happen. So it was quite extraordinary to find that, again, which points to that we have something very unusual just in the fact that a large body is now orbiting the planet. And then it turns out that the content, the silica is too high at around 75-80%. We find that asteroids are limited to about 60%. We don't know of any natural bodies out there that are over 60% silica. So when you start putting these kind of factors together, you have this very unlikely object which is now in orbit. You know, precisely the ten times we have a line of extraordinary events, you know, a magnetic pole reversal, the emergence of homo sapiens, an asteroid bombardment, what is going on? Once you start factoring that in. And just to pull back the lens even further, we're talking about, I mean, a geological event here that is in a scale that we're looking at millions of years. So like, I mean, science is looking at millions of years and saying, okay, we've seen these different things fall from the sky and they're going, wow, but this is the only time we can see something exactly like this that has ever happened in this particular place only once and it happened at exactly this time that we were looking for. I mean, I don't think, well, how did that strike you guys in terms of being extraordinary or being, well, show me more. No, this part about the tectites, the fact that you know, the objects seem to be moving too slowly like he was saying to be a normal cometary or asteroid old body impact. Those move really quickly. When they come into the atmosphere, number one, they don't start out molten. That's one point. Number two, they come in so fast that a lot of times, depending on the angle of impact, they're only in the atmosphere for a couple of seconds before they make landfall. What about the fact making landfall? What about the fact that there's no crater? Yeah, there's no... As Bruce points out, you know, later is that anything, when you start talking about things this size and then you go over to Laos where we start seeing these bigger objects and they're huge, you know, they're 20 kilograms, there's no crater. And Bruce, didn't you say that we would estimate the crater to be like dinosaur extinction size thing? It was either 40 kilometers or 40 miles across, you know, so like a vast vast sized, you know, and because it's supposed to be young, it's 780,000 years, obviously we can find impact sites from millions and millions of years ago. So this was really problematic. It's been, you know, a head scratcher for the geologists for it just fits perfectly with your theory, right? If it's a spacecraft that was blown up in space, there's no crater, it's all this little debris that's thrown around, versus if it's a big rock up there, it comes down and it slams into the earth. But I'm sorry guys, I kind of cut it off a little bit short. What else did you think about that and or the crater? Well, I really think the idea is awesome but my brain immediately goes into trying to figure out how it could not be aliens, right? That's right, you should. You know, it's just what happens and I'm imagining well, there could have been a scenario where there was an impact which is extremely unlikely between two commentary or, you know, meteorite or meteor objects near the atmosphere at their closest approach to earth to slow them down and also melt them to create your initial molten spheres that then fell slowly into the atmosphere. That doesn't necessarily explain the high silica content but it could explain a very unlikely scenario of slow entry of pre molten and then solidified spheres that were out in space and then fell down and remelted upon entry. Yeah, and there would be no crater. Again with the idea about capturing a body in space, you know, there's always these like infinitesimally small chances of things happening, right? But what we can look at there is that nobody has got none of the scientists who spent the hundred years on this propose that as a possible solution. So, one would assume that that's because of when you put all the evidence together, that would remain problematic. You know, again, apart from the odds of these two objects happening to here. We think about the size of space and we think about how unlikely would be the two relatively small objects in space to hit and just happen to hit in the upper, you know, the upper ends of our planet and then does the distribution pattern fit with that? You know, and as you said, if it's two different bodies we'd almost expect to have some of the material that would be different would have some of the different components. If you have some of the original body A body B, that body A should be a different composition to body B. What you find with Osprec tectite is it's very homogenous that throughout the entire mass of these materials being found is almost identical in composition throughout. That's problematic for any of the scenarios, but also for the impact because what you expect in a really fast kind of singular explosion event, that you should pick the impact, that you should have some of the material that is only partly melted or is of different compositions, like if you're impacting some granite and sandstone that some parts will have more granite, some parts will have more sandstone, some parts are partly melted, some aren't. So again, if you have two objects here you would expect to be able to detect the presence of two original source bodies that some parts remaining from part A and part B. Again, because of the homogeneity of the material that really points to being just an object superheated, not encountering material from other objects whether the earth, the moon or another body. So that's where it becomes problematic. And also in fact this homogeneity especially the lack of bubbles, it turns out that this whole thing called Moore's Law or something like, Moses' Law or something like that. Basically that if you create a glass and you want to remove all the bubbles, like when we're producing glass that you have to have a kind of sustained event, that you heat the glass for a while and that refines it down to this homogenous material with very few bubbles. And it's pointed out that in fact with with this glass material that we have that this is problematic because in an impact you have a singular moment of extreme energy, extreme heat extreme pressure and that's it. That's not how we form homogenous glasses, they're energized over time. And now we're told in this original material this ship is being hit with a sustained energy beam that is superheating it and is essentially melting it and blows it apart and it turns into this homogenous glass. So that's again, this is a funny factor that's been pointed out by some of the sides is it shouldn't be homogenous like this if it's a singular just, you know, impact explosion, we shouldn't see this we should see a lot of bubbles and see a lot of heart melt and things like that. So again, there's a lot of science that suggests we have something extraordinary happening. Yeah, or it could have been heated from within the spaceship from whatever energy drive it had. Well, yeah, it explodes there's a nuclear explosion at the end. I mean, I want it to be a crystal spaceship, I'll just tell you straight up, but No, don't want it to be. No, no, no, not necessarily that. No, I mean, like I say, if there's a way to explain it in another way, but I say this is problematic because they really what can be a sustained energy event that, you know, other than this, because if impacts don't explain it, what are we left with, you know, solar flare or something, you have to find something a mechanism that could continually heat this body to make this homogenous, nearly bubble free glass. Yeah, and, you know, the other idea, the, you know, the standard model idea for tectites is that their post explosion that they're actually supposed to be a mixture of the impactor and ejecta. Exactly. And this part melt. Right. And so like you're saying, this material doesn't fit that profile, because like you said, it would be a mixture of all this different stuff and it's actually too homogenous for that. So it is interesting. And not just the australite tectite, you know, they're for the stream field and these are problematic. I don't go into them in the book, but keep in mind that the whole history of the planet, there's only like four of these stream fields. That's right. Now what the hell's going on there? Because if these are just from standard impacts, then why why are there not, you know, hundreds and hundreds of these sites with these, so I mean, again, you could probably dig dive into the back storage some of these others. I haven't, but I do suspect that they're all in some way extraordinary. But the reason why we can focus on this one in particular is because it's unique in that we have these tectite buttons that are quite clearly come down from space. So then it's not the same as the other stream fields. Hey, so Bruce, that is like, I mean, we could talk we just talked so long and that's why it's really cool if you guys do have Bruce on for a series of interviews, I think that'd be fantastic because that's really what this topic deserves, especially for folks like all of us who are interested in the science. And again, the key part of this story is it has this incredible extended consciousness aspect to it. And then what we're trying to do in our humble little minds here is tie it back to this science and I can't let go of this. There's four fields, four times when we've seen this kind of tectite event and you're talking about just one of them. What is the range of those different ones? And you've already explained why this one is unique. But I guess I want to drive home this point that of all the events we've ever traced on the the history of the geological history of our planet, you know, all the different secretors, this is unique. Yeah, I mean, some of them go but I mean, I think with the mold of it goes back it's certainly in the tens of millions, if not longer. There's another strewn field, I think an African strewn field which is around a million years old and some have suggested that perhaps it's closer to the dating on the Australite than that. Maybe it's within the same frame, but they think it's around about a million years old. So that's the second, you know, second youngest and then you've got mold of it and you've got a U.S. site as well, which I forgot where it's actually in Georgia. In Georgia, yeah. The piece of it that's exposed that we know about is in Georgia, yeah. And so that one I think is again going back quite early. Yeah, that one's really old, I think. So it's only these two that are fairly recent, the African and the Asian. So again, you know, you get the little echo machine in the Aboriginal Australian people have their ancient echo and it comes out and says, hey look guys, it's 780, look for it and boom you find it right to the date. You don't find it 10 million years ago, 5 million years ago you find it boom and that is unbelievably needle in a haystack thing and it's just easy to kind of lose the big picture here. Well yeah, that and of course, and then we very briefly mentioned, you know, there's a claim that there is a multi-directional asteroid bombardment of the planet five years later. So now in geological terms you can't pinpoint five years difference. So you would be looking for an event approximately in the same 10,000, 20,000 years, right, because we're not quite at the pinpoint accuracy on these. Right. But you know, it turned out that in 2016, you know, a team of German geologists had stumbled on evidence of a multi-directional asteroid bombardment and keep in mind this book, you know, the source material is published, you know, so it's in the public record from 2003. This em, most recent impact is discovered in 2016. Now, you can't then say, well, you know, this person's heard about it, you know, they've woven it into a sci-fi story. You just can't do that. And it turns out that when, when does this event happen? Approximately the same time as the Australites. So they give it a little bit of leeway cycles about three different or four different impact sites they found and they, they're close enough in their geological dating that they believe they happened at the same time. Now, you've got impacts down to Tasmania, impacts in Central America and impacts a couple of the sites and they are sure that these basically are, you know, interrelated. Yeah. This is, this might be going a little too deep into the story here, but this part bothered me in the story that was being told, you know, so that the ship shows up, it's destroyed. Some people survive. They end up on the ground. They start trying to live there. They, I guess they sent out a distress call, you know, and then five years later people show up and they're, and they start bombarding the planet and there are survivors on the planet. I'm like, wait a minute. Why would they do that? You know, I mean, I know this is probably not something that can be answered, but this part of the story bothered me. I don't, I wondered why when they asked for rescue that the people show up and then start slamming the planet with asteroids. That you can't... They don't want rescue. That's sort of clarified in the book. They don't want to be rescued. They are offered to be rescued. That's right. This is more like an enforcement of the original agreement for another group to leave the planet. But there is a communication between them. So although it's never completely explained, we assume that there is some level of defense of locations where these other survivors are. Yeah, because they are in communication, but there's no attempt to go into depth of this is how we put them in a particular area. It doesn't really explain it, but one has to infer that in this communication between them, where they say, we want to remain, that they would be protected from this bombardment. Yeah, they would have to tell them, okay, you need to go hide because we're about to start throwing asteroids in the planet you're on. We won't hit you here, but we're going to be throwing you off the planet to bits. That's right. Like I was saying, we've been studying the Younger Dryas period, specifically the impact hypothesis about the explosion of small material, even the stuff that just explodes in the air that doesn't always make it all the way down to the ground, causes extinction level events. You know, you don't have to have it. Yeah, it's cataclysmic for the whole planet. Absolutely. I mean, it's theorized that even with one of the objects that hit in Antarctica is believed to left an initial crater in the ice about 200 miles by 200 miles, 200 kilometers by 200 kilometers. I'll have to check. But you think that that was an object on the same scale as the one that eradicated the dinosaurs. That's not a small impact. And that's just one of them. There's several that are impacting and it was theorized that the only reason why that didn't cause the same level of extinction event is because it was in ice and because the world was in an ice age at that time. So there was a lot of sea ice and that absorbed a lot of the energy and so now these impacts were happening at a point when there wasn't so much ice, you know, like now that we would have had an event like the dinosaur extinction event. But it still was severe. I mean, they think that these multi-direction impacts caused firestorms, earthquakes, tsunamis. I mean, so by no stretch was it, you know, like, you know, cakewalk. It would have been there would have been mass extinction type events, you know, in some areas definitely. I would just like to make a comment about the story and its similarities to some translations and interpretations of the Sumerian text of the Anunnaki coming down in key genetically altering the hominids that lived on the planet to make the Adamu. And then you have another story that comes much later, which is the quote-unquote fallen, which are like Shem Yaza and the 200 fallen angels that come down, take the daughters of men to be their wives and then they don't want to leave, but it was against the compact with the gods or God. And so then there's like a battle ensues between them, where God destroys all of them. That's just really interesting to me, there are similarities for sure. You find them elsewhere as well, I know you say there's some elements of this in the Bible stories, again, which relates to the Sumerian stories anyway. Now this is problematic if you take it from a very mundane materialist, convalescent view, particularly if you take a view that there's not been contact events with other extraterrestrials over time. Otherwise it's quite easily explainable why we have similarities in these different stories, because if either of one of two or both of these other scenarios are true, then it's explainable. One being the very common claim that many people, particularly shamans, mediums, what not, can have psychical communication with non-human extraterrestrials that have this information and it keeps being perpetually renewed. Then immediately you can see how this stuff perpetuates through time and space. The second one being, of course, direct contact, which again, vast numbers of people, whole civilizations claim that they've been in contact, whether you know, native Americans, you know, Aboriginal people, all sorts of people said we've had ongoing contact, they tell us history, they tell us stuff. Some of them say we go and sit in the bush, meditate, get contact with the star people and they tell us stuff. So in either of those scenarios there's no problem. Of course if you go from a totally materialist view that people can't do that then you're stuck scratching your head. How can the Samarians know this story from 780,000 years? How could they have any indication about modification of human beings? You know, why is that story so persistent? Why is it that Native Americans are talking about we have ancestry to the Pleiades? Where's this coming from? Even if it's even a real event, 780,000 years is too long for this to be oral history. It's too long. It's not believable that you can pass down an accurate story for 780,000 years, particularly when those first generation don't have the complex brain that we have. There's no reason to think that they were capable of really doing that, having that whole story and conveying it. So the only way you can have this is either someone is tapping into this information in some kind of psychical way or there's a direct contact. There's a landing, there's a refreshing of the story through that. That's basically what the Samarians were claiming is that the Anunnaki came down and told them all this. They had contact. Same as the Mayans have stories of direct contact. All sorts of cultures have stories. If you accept very many stories of direct contact or psychical interaction, either of those explain that straight away. Why are we hearing the similar story? The Samarian story seems almost like a slightly Chinese whispers version of what I'm providing in my book. It's not quite right. It's written down after the events. That's what I keep hearing in all this is the whisper to your neighbor, telephone game. I tell you what guys, we're running out of time and really, I think one of the purposes of this show was to kind of make this introduction because I'm really, really hopeful that you guys will do this series. You can already see. I think the audience can already see that the brothers, the snakes, they ain't going to roll over. Not the snakes roll over. I don't know how snakes do that. They're going to roll over on this. They're going to dig into it and they're going to try and pull it apart. And if anyone remembers the first interview that I did, that's how I framed it up because that's really what I did. I was like, no, I'm pulling this guy down. I'm pulling this man. He's going down. And I tried the best I could. So this is like a passing of the baton to people who are more capable. Pull it apart. Tell us where it's wrong. And Bruce has to run. So I want to leave people with something too. So go ahead, but I have a few things to say. Won't take me a minute, though. Okay, no. Do you want to do it before or after this clip? I have one thing. I would say if you're going to throw out if you're going to be a materialist and if you're going to throw out the possibility of contact, then you're not going to solve any mysteries about our origins. So that's my opinion. Go ahead and play the clip, Alex. I'll do this after that's over. Having validated that there was not only a large crystalline object in orbit, just as this information had stated, and having found that there was indeed a multi-directional asteroid bombardment as the information had stated. And I was in a position where I had to look at perhaps the most controversial and most important claim in this information, of course, that homo sapiens are tied to this story. These beings, this intelligence, you know, goes on to make a modification in the early hominins that are living on the planet at this time. Okay, so we might end that right there, and there's so much, obviously, that we could talk about in terms of the genetic modification. And it's incredible. I think people already get a sense for what Bruce goes into in his research, and I guarantee you he's done that with the genetic information, too. Not that you would believe it or have to believe it, but let me, as we wrap it up, let me toss it over to you, Russ, and tell me what you're thinking. Okay, so going through the book, I was really... Two things happened to me in the Gosper-Glyphs part. One, I was sort of confused by what was happening there, obviously. There was some stuff, you know, you guys go there and then there's a lot of visions and intuitive stuff that's happening, right? Which was all interesting. The other thing that was really fascinating to me is that I've looked into this a lot. I don't know if you're familiar with Ben from Uncharted X. He's done a lot of work on this. He's gone there multiple times. He is Australian, but he lives in California, but he's been there. He has a whole video on it. There's a couple of guys, one of them is named Yusuf, they're Egyptians, and they have taken... Yeah, they've taken these glyphs, and they've got a whole series of videos on their YouTube channel, and they've published a paper about their translations. So what was interesting to me, the part that was strange was they're looking at the glyph types and saying, well, these look to be from this particular late period of Egypt, and the story they are translating from those glyphs. I got a couple of the lines here from their translations. Here's one of them. The ships capsized. They turned over and were destroyed into pieces. We prayed to our gods for help, but many were killed. God will keep the hidden burial from being reached and give the foreign land heritage. And eternal life to the deceased will be given power in this place. They are so close to the story that you're telling. It's very fascinating. So on the one hand, I'm like, okay, they're dating it to this very late period of Egypt, but on the other hand, this story sounds so close to the one that you're telling in your book, and so I definitely want to dig it into that more on our show. I'm so... So Bruce, we're going to give you the last word here. Tell people what's going on with the book, where they can find it. I know you're doing a lot of really terrific media appearance as well, and you're continuing to do this research. So tell us in a couple minutes kind of what continues to go on with this work. Yeah, I mean, if people would like to interact with me, I'm on Twitter quite a lot. You know, I try to be available to ask questions or queries. I think that they've read the book and they've got some feedback. You know, if they give me on basically exogenesis HH, we'll handle that. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of interviews, so people, if they sort of keep an eye on me, Facebook or on there, I'll share some of those links. I might do a kind of follow-up book. We'll see. So I am, you know, looking to see, you know, additional information to this. Of course, if they watch the free documentary on YouTube, the Greeks, they'll get a good overview, you know, from what we've done. But yeah, otherwise, the book is available at... In the US, it's available now. You know, bookstores, I understand you can order it. It's Amazon, Barnes & Noble. In Europe, the print version will be out either on the 26th of July due to, you know, coronavirus slowing down, shipping, and all that kind of stuff. But it's available, you know, audio, Kindle, or the other, alleyways, but just not print in Europe at the moment. Great. Well, I'll tell you what, we're going to wrap it up there. And I hope, you know, we kind of touched on some stuff like we said all along. It's a huge topic, so we can't get into it too much, but hopefully we've maybe made some people interested that didn't know about it before. And it's kind of fun to see you guys coming into it, you know, fresh and clean and some of your perspectives. So thanks, guys, and we'll stay on top of this. Bruce, Russ, Kyle, thank you all so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks again to Bruce and Russ and Kyle for joining me today on Skeptico. The question I guess I'd have to Tia from this interview has to do with the whole premise of the movie. Do you buy it? 780,000 years ago begins the human origin story. That's an unbelievably big claim. What would it take to nudge you closer to some acceptance of that? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Jump on over to the Skeptico forum or just drop me a note. I have some really interesting chats coming up. More on the evil stuff, of course, but not just on that. I hope you stay with me for all of that. I hope you're enjoying this and I hope you can find some value in it. Until next time, take care and bye for now.