 All right, I think we should all be live now Hopefully everyone is tuning in everyone can respond that Justin and I are equal volumes perhaps Justin do you like to say? Oh, I would have to also be talking for that So this is the volume that I am speaking at and the volume players speaking at sound something like this Oh, I am now speaking like this. Can everyone hear both of us at an equal volume My sound controls makes it difficult for me to tell what is happening. It's okay if I'm a little louder people All right, that's just how I am. I'm already horse Okay, great. We're gonna get started This is twist this week in science episode number 624 recorded on Wednesday, June 21st 2017 summertime science Tonight on twist we will fill your head with scared mountain lions bad medicine and a wooden foot, but first Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer Science is often characterized poorly in fiction the occasional tool to push plot feasibility The source of a superpowers power super heroes power the unfair advantage of a super villain The cause of a world devastating fill in the blank that was the result of science going too far And let us not forget that science has always gone too far for the fictional sensibility of any time Instead the way that fictitious days are often one that mysteries are Unveiled that solutions are found to make a better world are with violence followed by car chase followed by more violence and the Occasional interpersonal dispute solved along the way Usually through violence The real world though is full of heroes finding solutions solving problems Building healing discovering and all of that just though that we may bring you another episode of This week in science coming up next There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I want to know Yeah Science to you Oh, hey, Kiki's not here. What good science to you Blair It's just me happy day of science to you as well Justin It is the summer solstice the longest day of the year Welcome everyone to this week's episode of this week in science and we have a great show ahead We have tons of science news. I brought a whole bunch of Blair's animal corner with old deer old Monkeys a wooden toe board games for science. What did you bring Justin? Let's see. I've got some fishy stuff some food stuff some questionable skeptical stuff and Yeah, a new spin on tetrapods Who's been on tetrapods? Very good. Okay. Well before we jump into those we have our new segment called What has science done for me? lately Our latest comes from Minion Joe Cloutier and he says hello doctor Kiki My wife Marjorie and I are long-time listeners who absolutely love your show and decided to check in from to guard Oregon to share how science has helped us lately Oh, thanks in October my wife and I participated in an event where she ran a half marathon a day for a week Each in a different state in the south. What? Yeah, I have a day And I did the same running a marathon in each state a couple weeks ago We repeated this but this time in the Northeast That is 14 marathons or half marathons completed in just over seven months Wow a few decades ago. It was thought impossible to anyone including elite athletes could compete In even a single marathon and now that we have regular folks like us competing in sometimes seven a week Modern medicine training exercise diet advanced clothing and shoes Technologies are just a few of the scientific advances that have made a ridiculous goal like this attainable to regular people It makes me wonder what incredible and impossible feat for us science Will make commonplace for our children or our grandchildren. It's enough to make you misty-eyed Little smiley face again. That was from Minion Joe Cloutier And from Tigard, Oregon who apparently loves to run Remember everyone we need you to write in to let us know what science has done for you lately What does it do for your everyday life? Leave us a message on our Facebook page? That's facebook.com slash this week in science or email dr. Kiki at kiki finch at gmail.com That's again kiki finch at gmail.com. There is a problem with her this week in science email News on that TBD. We want to fill the segment of the show with something from our Minion community every single week So please keep them coming again our Facebook page or Kiki's email address And without further ado, let's get into some science just Do you want to hear about some board games and how they might help advance? conservation action I Would love to how is this possible? Oh, I can't wait to tell you so Board games University of Michigan and Mexican coffee farmers. How do they all fit together? well University of Michigan researchers actually developed a board game to Teach Mexican coffee farmers The interactions between insects fungi and the plants on their farm and how some of those creatures could actually provide natural pest control So this game was a method of teaching this kind of complex subject I mean food webs are really intense and it can be a difficult thing to teach somebody who doesn't even know what a food web is right so In it was something kind of akin to chess But instead of Queens Knights bishops and ponds the they did an Azteca designed chess board And they had tokens that represented ants ladybugs wasps and flies And it was living on this kind of stylized version of a coffee bush The goal of the tool to player game would be for each player to capture the imponents insect tokens so the game mimicked the relationship that the insects and the fungi had with each other and The insects and fungi actually could help aid in the control of something called coffee rust fungus So which is another kind of fungus, which is ravaged Latin American plantations for several years and Is a driver to use pesticides? So the game helps see how natural fungi's insects and other natural pest controls could kill off this fungus without the intervention of pesticides Awesome. Yeah, so if they say our goal is to help farmers to continuously update their management strategies based on a better understanding of ecology of their farms and we believe that this board game helps us to facilitate that kind of learning and The professor in charge of this research group from University of Michigan Department of Ecology and evolutionary biology He's operated research plots at organic coffee farms in Southern Chiapas, Mexico for more than 20 years and they've researched the ecologic ecological interactions of nine species Including tree nesting estecca ants a sessile Coffee scale insect, which is an insect that doesn't move around ladybugs parasitic wasps and parasitic flies They held 14 worship workshops in Southern Mexico for more than a hundred small-scale coffee farmers The workshops included natural history lectures as well as quizzes to assess the value of the board game and They found that this board game actually did make a significant impact on the farmers understanding of This based on people who just attended the lectures who did not play the game and people who Supplemented the lecture by playing the game. So the game Greatly improved their understanding of the interactions Yeah, so this is a really cool situation where the This is one of my favorite comments actually from one of the farmers is There are so many little animals in our coffee farms that we prefer to ignore them I had no idea there was a chain and each animal has a function and they compete Good knowledge to have Yes Another farmer said you came today to awaken our belief that our coffee farms are not a hundred percent lost We have defenders ants that are struggling for us. We are very rude with them But starting today, we are going to give ants a little bit of freedom. We won't mess with them Just let them be there. Oh Yeah, so board games for teaching farmers about the ecosystems on their farms. That's excellent. Yeah And Speaking of new ways of looking at things are perhaps very old old old old ways of looking at things Let's pretend for a second. Let's just pretend you lost your toe Your big what is it would this be a problem for you? What do you think? Well, I'm not a real open-toe shoe wearing kind of person so Statically speaking it probably wouldn't be a big deal. Yeah, there may be some balance issues and yoga I'd have to do some adjustments there strengthen the other littler toes. That's exactly it Big toes are a huge part of balance The way that you can walk around maybe with a shoe on it'd be a little bit easier But especially if you're barefoot without a big toe your toast you're falling down left and right well or Left a lot and or right a lot. Yes Swiss Egyptologists from the University of Basel have found a 3000 year old wooden toe Wow Yeah, wow Yes, a 3000 year old wooden tome it was from the a female burial and It was a priest's daughter, which I always think it's funny how they can figure out these things Lot more of the anthropological stuff than I do. How do you think they would find out? There isn't an answer in this necessarily. They just kind of put it at face value. Yep It was a priest's daughter. How do you think they found out it was a priest's daughter? I Guess I guess the records and like the family tombs in Egypt, you know, and it's probably not too hard They've probably got a whole so-and-so begat so-and-so who begat somebody else Right Record-keeping okay, so this 3000 year old priest's daughter's tomb They found a wooden toe and they found that it was refitted several times to fit the foot of its owner. I Maybe as she grew. I don't know they also knew The researchers newly classified these materials and identified the methods which they highly developed prosthesis they produced And they they produced a conclusion that this was definitely one of the very first prosthetic things that they found and definitely one of the more More technologically advanced ones than they found that are around two or three centuries old Yeah, that's centuries old. We're talking 3,000 millennia two or three millennial Yes, so The they say the technical know-how can be seen particularly well in the mobility of the plot prosthetic extension So it had some movement to it and the But it would move as you walked right so it have flexion there and the robust structure of the belt strap that attached it to the Foot yeah, the fact that their prosthesis was made in such a laborious and meticulous manner Indicates that the owner valued a natural look Aesthetics and wearing comfort and that she was able to count on highly qualified specialists to provide this Of course, we are talking about the people that built the pyramids right Probably some decent craftsmen in there amongst the ranks. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's fair to say Yeah, and probably a lot of open Toes shoe wear. I wonder how the toe was lost I imagine some it was still on a foot Justin No, no, no, no, not the wooden one. Oh Her her rigid the og toe. Yeah, the original I'm picturing a large block getting dropped on maybe or me That's something that happened a lot. You know what though said that it was refitted several times It's possible that that was actually because it was due to gangrene or something like that an infection and that actually she Periodically lost more and more per foot I would say that's probably what happened some sort of flushing bacteria green or something I would I would argue that probably the first time they they fitted the prosthesis It wasn't that successful and that it was more a learning as you go kind of a thing Maybe and that would be the reason for all the adjustments that they can see that would be my guess we weren't there So unless we can go back 3,000 years Soon but I think I think when once we can we'll be exploring other things Speaking of medicine Do you have a story for us? Oh? Do I do I ever? Oh, yeah This is Where did I put my stories today? Oh, here we go to tackle Serious flaws in the creation dissemination and implementation of medical evidence Is the plan set out by experts from the British Medical Journal Oxford University Center for evidence-based medicine? And what they're calling for is more evidence-based medicine That's surprising They're manifesto as it's being called here in the article for evidence-based medicine sets out steps required to develop Trustworthy evidence It's an open invitation to contribute and join a movement towards better evidence for better health care Too many research studies are poorly designed or executed argues professor Carl And again editor-in-chief the journal evidence-based medicine Which is a editorial within the BMJ's editor-in-chief render doctor Fiona Goodley Who's gonna show up here in a minute? Too much of the resulting research evidence is withheld or disseminated only piecemeal they add and as the volume of clinical research activity has grown the quality of evidence It's often gotten worse Which is compromised medicine itself an ability to provide affordable affordable effective high value care for patients As a result There's a host of organizations that have shown up to help clinicians Unpick what evidence means and offer advice on how they should act And then henigan here again arguing these two are beset with problems such as untrustworthy guideline production regulatory failings and delays in the withdrawal of harmful drugs so even those those sort of Organizations that have shown up in the middle which I can only imagine are largely funded by pharmaceutical companies. I'm just guessing Or they can be they could be patient support organizations, too Um, but I think both of those are going to be perhaps overly optimistic Because they want things to work right of course. Well, so there's a few things when you're working on human medicine, right? There's the desire for things to work of course by the company that's designing that medicine but also by the people who want to get better There's A massive massive massive placebo effect. So unless you have good sample sizes and good controls There's a huge opportunity for placebos to take over your study, right a peaceful effect And on top of that, how do you properly get a good sample size and get a good control when you're working with human beings? It's difficult. Absolutely. There's a lot of us out there, but they're we're also busy We're busy and we don't like to you know, take gambles with Untested medicine What really I think would be the key here is that if you recognize their specific medicines Where the methodology behind their testing might be flawed you just Take new data from the people who are currently using it That's part of it. That's part of it. So so okay. So here you say they go on The manifesto itself this this large document I'm assuming it's a large document because you don't call like a three Investo right a manifesto makes a sound when you slap it on the table Yeah, it's a thud when you put that down, right? Um Developed by people engaged at all points in the research process Uh patients in the public it identifies nine steps towards more trustworthy evidence these include expanding the role of patients health professionals policymakers in the actual research policymakers in research Reducing questionable research practices biases and conflicts of interest Ensuring drug and device regulation is robust transparent and completely independent from the industries that they are uh regulating And producing better usable clinical guidelines, which is also, you know, all this research takes place And all the effort is on on that research itself on the development of say a drug or device And then there's this whole how do you communicate? The information the best way to the actual doctor They acknowledge uh tackling these issues will take time resources and effort But says the focus will be on the tools and strategies most effective at delivering change Coding voice so that we can all work together to improve health care using better quality evidence so yeah ever health care is A huge The expensive thing if taken collect with that collectively so anything that you can do To make that system more efficient make that research to actual clinical uh healthcare More effective Yeah, that's got to be worth whatever they're asking for to to run this And I think it's also a good time to mention that whenever somebody does So statistical analysis of previous studies Those are those are important pieces of science. They might not be as flashy They might not be things that people think will earn them their their phd They might not be things that will make the headlines But they're so important I've brought up. I can't imagine. I can't remember how many times I've brought up since we talked about it on the show That statistical analysis of the climate change denial Papers and how they were unable to repeat results and Cycle flaws and all these sorts of things and nobody's heard about it because it's not it's not flashy It's not it doesn't have this panache of new findings tell us right But it's an important part of science to look back on previous studies previous clinical trials Make sure your double blind study was actually double blind Make sure your sample size is good. Make sure everything was statistically significant. It's such an important part Of science right and and part of that though is chances are only Only about six percent of the people that you talk to likely You Blair Thought that was anything other than well, of course No actually quite surprising because if people are still running around saying 97 percent of scientists 97 percent of science Did you hear it's only 97? It's just 90. It's but it's 97 percent of scientists But that actually doesn't mean anything If the 3% are not replicable, right? But i'm talking about the 6 percent So this is on the tail feathers of the united states pulling out of the paris climate agreement A new cornell university study finds that labels matter When it comes to the acceptance of climate science The u.s. Public doubts the existence of global warming More than it doubts climate change Wait say it again the u.s. Public Doubts the existence of global warming More than it doubts Climate change okay, so okay. I have a question because those are actually two different things. Well, are they I don't think they are Yes, they are global warming is an element of climate change Global warming is the rise in global temperatures climate change Is all of the stuff that happens as a result of more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere So there are two separate things. They are related But probably in this article they're they're treating them like synonyms So, uh, and it turns out um I just want to mention that it turns out when they looked across, uh, this poll and and it's you know, looked at ages and Genders and all the rest of it turns out republicanism Is the thing driving this effect this difference between global warming and climate change, I believe Uh, and a nationally representative survey 74.4 percent of respondents identified as republicans said they believe that climate change is really happening But only 65 percent or 65.5. Let's not undercut it said they believed in global warming In contrast for half Huh. Oh, yeah. No, it's it's it's the majority of people. That's good. Yeah In contrast 94 of democrats Believed it was the same question and replied yes to both. Yeah It's it but that's the thing is if you're being scientific about it. It's not the same question The it it's the same. I'm not saying democrats understand the science either Right, that's what I'm saying is that exactly why they started calling it climate change instead of global warming Because there is this person 10 percent, uh of people who say that it's happening. Yes Uh says here it goes on so how many of those people do you think live on the east coast? Where they got snow in may And that's exactly the problem because it's weather right the globe is heating overall Uh changing climate Means different things in different places. Correct. Uh says here also goes on to say the cornel study says some republicans may discredit climate science because they may not like the policies that have been proposed to address the problem Which I think is sort of interesting Uh, you know, I don't like the solution to I don't I don't like that my doctor told me to quit smoking. So I'm going to disregard All of the evidence that says smoking is bad. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of like what it is Uh, my doctor told me I had diabetes, but I'm gonna eat this ho ho anyway. I don't believe him I don't believe in diabetes anymore. I used to until I got diagnosed now. I'm like, yeah I don't I don't think it's a thing so Yeah, that's according to co-author jonathan schult assistant professor of communication at cornel Acknowledging the reality of global warming or climate change may lead to new government regulations on businesses Which goes against some core conservative values schultz said So telling a pollster that the phenomenon isn't happening may reflect something about a person's general Preferences not just their level of certainty that the global climate is change Research is an extension of an earlier study also written by schult. The first study included references to temperature going up versus changing The new research focuses merely on how labels impact acceptance of climate science And it now more charged political environment Well, and this is exactly what I study In my day job when I talk about climate change communication is about word choice is about tone Is about the the information that you use to frame your conversation is about metaphors all these things can be polarizing so if you pick Research tested non polarizing methods of starting a conversation people are likely to Engage in a good discourse and see the clear Chain reaction from cause to result and how to do something about it Yeah, and 65.5 percent of republicans did indicate that global warming is occurring in these polls Uh, which makes you wonder Why the leadership of that party isn't following? That's the question if this was representative If I why is it? Yeah, why is the representation or the percentage in that party's leadership? so unanimously Uh, just about There's lots of representation issues. I mean it's not 50 percent female. It's it's not racially represented. It's it's Oh, yeah, no, there's that ultimately Also, potentially if politicians knew this information They might change the song they were singing. I think what they'll do is say, hey, uh, we need we need more talk radio shooting down We need more Just fund more studies that say it's not right. Well, I think that would probably be is is probably is All right. Well moving on if you've just turned in you're listening if you've just turned in This week in science Dustin Jackson and myself Blair basterich. Do you know what time it is? Justin I believe it's time once again for a little segment. We like to call Blazana mukana That's right What you got Blair Oh, I have a little something about the intelligence of animals Oh Yeah, what do you think Man, I think they're just a bunch of dumb animals that just react to their environment like a dumb animal would And don't really think like, you know a person would yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yeah So let's talk about capuchin monkeys and their ability to learn Something about their learning experience dependent on age and dependent on Different methods available to learn So wild capuchin monkeys, they chose that because they Learn from each other in the wild So there are very social species They observe each other's actions and they will adjust their actions based on what they see other monkeys doing So we already know this so they are the perfect species to look at when we want to see How they learn how quickly they learn what age they learn best at When they learn from their own experiences versus from other monkeys experiences There's a lot of things about learning that we can glean just from a couple of studies with these animals So a new study from UC Davis looked at Yeah, looked at capuchin monkeys and their ability to learn how to get inside of a very particular Uh, nut it it's from the The fruit of the panamotry and the nuts inside these fruits They're protected by a hard shell that shell is covered in a gooey Substance and it's lined on the inside with stinging hairs Ah So how do they get into those nuts to eat them? So typically a group of monkeys familiar with the fruit they would work out their own way to open them But it makes it hard to figure out how monkeys learned their specific technique So instead they found a group of monkeys that had split off from a larger group in 2003 and had moved into an area that had No panamotries. So most of the monkeys In this group would never have come across This fruit before so some of the older animals had experience with it But most of them had no experience at all. They found that overall most monkeys adopted the most efficient technique for opening the fruit And this was the method with the highest payoff They found the most efficient technique spread very quickly through the group in only about two weeks Even older monkeys that had already mastered one technique would end up picking up another that was more efficient by watching others The monkeys used a mix of learning by observation and individual experience to figure out how to open the fruit So some of them spent most time like particularly the older monkeys spent most time just experimenting And figuring out through their own experience What the best option was for opening the fruit younger ones paid more attention to other animals opening the fruit And recognized which was the most beneficial and adopted that technique A few of the monkeys settled on their own technique Even if it wasn't as efficient as the most efficient technique, but the options they tried were still guided by watching other monkeys So they showed through the study something called payoff by it bias learning Which means learning guided by which technique is most efficient And that this type of learning payoff bias learning Is most likely more widespread in wild animals than we would have thought This takes a lot of really complex thought to be able to compare and come Contrast multiple techniques at once in your brain To think about which way historically and right in this moment got the most food With the least work right that's that's pretty that's a pretty complex thing to think about Yeah, so this is this is pretty important just for understanding how how smart animals are But also when considering how to reintroduce animals that were captive bred or have been separated for a long time Or moving a population into a new habitat when we think about moving a population Like there's a lot of endangered animals that live in areas where they can't Their numbers can't grow because it's war torn or because Climate change has completely changed the landscape all these sorts of things. So Either those animals have to be moved or they have to learn how to live in that Less than ideal space So the more we know about how their brain can collect that information quickly and adjust The better we can set these animals up for success Yeah, I've got to know that they uh, you know They can get better at things That techniques like I think that technique is what what helped that The that our branch Generally speaking survive As well as we have okay, so let's talk about that how far back on the branch. Do you want to go because I have another story Oh, how far back is that branch? Well Wait, wait say it again deer Oh, so Just mammals let's just talk about our ancestor that we have in common with all mammals Is a deer No This study is focusing on actual deer alive today or elk rather But so if we're comparing the way our brain works to the way an elk or a deer their brain works Either this is a huge amount of convergent evolution across all species over all time or more likely Our common ancestor a long time ago a little probably a little true Complex learning strategies available to them. So let's talk about it female elk. What do elk have to worry about justin? uh wolves Coyotes humans humans. Yeah hunting season Uh-oh. Yeah. So how do female elk learn to avoid hunters? They find that there's something that happens with female elk where older elk They're good at surviving. So the question is Are they good at surviving because they've always been good at surviving and the reason they grew to an older age Is because they have always been good at avoiding hunters or Do they learn over time and that now because they have reached this advanced age They have acquired so much knowledge that they are extremely good at avoiding hunters. Which one do you think that it is? Hmm. That's uh, that's a tough question. So if you could ask me before this study was released I would have said the first one. They're just more flighty They're just more flighty. They're just better at avoiding people. So obviously they survived So i'm gonna say they've associated the smell of old spice with one of the one of the herd disappearing And therefore pick up on the thread a little sooner. Maybe then You're not that wrong. So A recent study from university of alberta, canada looked at these older female elk About 10 years old and noticed that they are pretty much Invulnerable to human hunters. They are so good at avoiding hunters Once they reach 10, they're good. They don't have to worry about it again. They're probably not going to get bagged So They looked at why they fitted 49 female elk with ages ranging from 1 to 18 years old with GPS collars and tracked them for two to four years they also collected data about Distance traveled with time terrain ruggedness slope forest cover all these things to try to figure out Exactly how they avoided hunters The researchers then modeled elk with behaviors that differed amongst individuals But were constant over time in a given individual as well as elk that could learn to adjust their behavior with age so basically they made these these models of elk that that fit these two different So to see Which was most likely to avoid hunters best and they found that the older elk actually Adjusting their behavior survived best Learning it looks like learning actually plays a role in shaping their avoidance of hunters over their lifetime Specifically older female elk reduced their movement rates So they were flighty, but they were also good at being kind of stealthy And they reduced their detectability by being so still So the likelihood of encountering human hunters went down This is what also is crazy Older female elk increased their use of safer grounds rugged terrain and forest when they were near roads Where the likelihood of being spotted by hunters is highest So they recognized based on where they were in space and time if they were in kind of a high traffic human area or not They also found that the elk could differentiate between bow and rifle hunters. They could tell the difference Wow Older females used rugged terrain more during the season for bow hunting than during that for rifle hunting So they're actually different times here and so This most likely is because bow hunters need to stalk their prey and get pretty close And that's more difficult on rugged terrain and on sloping terrain rifle hunters. However can shoot far And terrain is less of an issue for them So the implications here is that The implications are that first of all Just because an animal lives to a ripe old age does not mean that they have always been good at survival In this case, it means that they learned over time From experience how best to avoid being eaten The implications for us as wildlife managers Those implications are that we Should not make assumptions that an animal will not learn from previous experience So avoid when we're when we're thinking about avoidance behavior For animals that are not that we don't have hunting license out licenses out for for example endangered deer species if we want to keep them safe and not stressed out We we have to remember that they learn from Things that they see and on top of that if we want to teach them to avoid certain areas Where poachers are things like that that is something that we can potentially do if we know That elk have this possibility in them Yeah, and and I guess it shouldn't be too surprising. This is uh been a prey species forever forever For evolutionary generations, right? So so learning about a new predator learning how to avoid predators Is is that the type of learning that they're going to do quicker? than than anything else, okay And we're just the latest in a long line of predators over the evolutionary ages Yeah, and that's actually why I think it's also really important to mention just because I did bring up hunters It's really easy for animal lovers like myself to villainize hunters But hunters have a really important job Because we have driven out most of the predators Here in california. We don't have wolves really and we definitely Don't have any grizzly bears so coyotes And black bears are not enough to control prey species So hunters actually help keep species alive by killing a few individuals over here I think we largely make up for it with the number of cats that we have domestically, but Cats don't take down deer. Yeah, no, I know that but but But like wolves eat like primarily like field mice, you know That's not entirely true Especially the ones that used to be in The northern part of the united states and the ones that are in canada. They take down elk and deer Oh, they do but primarily they eat mice There's still a very important part of the predator-prey relationship So they're not to be discounted since they are Anyway I think it's time We take a break Yeah, frankly Yeah, it is that time. So we'll be back in a little bit. We are going to take a quick break and we'll be back with more this weekend science Did you know that twist has merchandise that you might enjoy available? You can go to twist.org and buy some of our swag We now have a link on our website that goes directly to our zazzle stores. Zazzle is spelled Z A Z Z L E So fun to say Z A Z Z L E So go to twist.org click on that zazzle store link in the menu bar and start buying now We have things like oh cell phone cases. 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We just want to get the science to the people Whatever your support even if it's just listening to us right now We thank you so much for all of your support and we absolutely could not do it without you And we're back with more of this weekend science That's right. Justin. What do you have for the show? What did I bring? What is this? Oh, it's the fishy fossil story This is uh, let's see. Where is it? Somewhere and oh, yeah, it's a fish. I can't Well, is it a fish ancient tetrapods ancestors humans and all other vertebrates We're thought to have evolved very slowly over long stretches of time Step by step from fish to animals that could actually take steps now an international team of researchers Published in nature reveal new insights into an ancient scottish snake-like fish fossil That is correcting our understanding of forelimb evolution It's a what snake-like fish fossil It's uh, it's uh, yeah snake-like fish. So the fossil is called lithoscus Stock eye. It's 340 million years old And full of insights like a snake on the outside But a fish on the inside they say Before the study ancient tetrapods ancestors humans and all modern-day vertebrates were thought to have evolved That slow slow slow process from fish to things with limbs We used to think that fish to film With slow evolution to becoming gradually less fish like he says but lithoscus shows immediate dramatic evolutionary experimentation The lineage shrunk in size and lost limbs almost immediately after they first evolved them It's like a snake on the outside Put a fish on the inside which they could see using micro computer tomography CT scanners and advanced computing software Jason Anderson paleontologist professor at the University of Calgary And study lead author Jason pardo doctor a doctoral student at the same university Got a close look at the internal anatomy of the fossilized lithoscus lithoscus After reconstructing CT scans its entire skull was revealed with extraordinary results The anatomy didn't fit with our expectations says pardo Many body structures didn't make sense in the context of amphibian or reptile anatomy But the anatomy did make sense when compared to early fish We could see the a question. So the indication is that Finns did not turn into legs Finns turned into a snake thing which which then got legs. No, no, this is this is uh, this is got legs And then was like, yeah, you know what don't need them anymore. I'm not gonna use them after all I'm gonna do a snakey thing instead. I'm gonna do a snakey thing. I get it. Okay proceed Uh, and then but but they would have expected they expected the The internal evolution of something that had gotten its forelimbs To be less fish like at this point like it was happening really slow But this thing got the legs and then lost them without going to fin back to fins But just said that for appendages forget them. I don't even want them But you actually scrap that stuff. Who needs I'm just gonna wiggle. I like this. This is fun right But still was completely in all of that getting them then your transforming fin to limb To then getting rid of limb remained primitive fish like on the interior Wow Where on the evolutionary tree is this snakey guy now? What did the snake? I give Give way to as a result of this odd choice So it dropped itself back down into the earliest stages of fin to limb transition Which is kind of where they thought it was I mean age wise should have been But was was like kind of confusing how it had um Evolved and then dropped them already but basically what they're saying The speed at which this evolution took place was much quicker Then we thought and was less step by step slow over time that evolutionary experimentation Was happening very rapidly Over you know Yes, but it's still it's still of course and so this guy was Still Right, but well, um I don't know. Actually it doesn't say here. Well, it must have been all fish parts, right? Yeah But but what was interesting is they thought this was uh an an ancestor of Uh immediate ancestor of tetrapods But but now it's like post tetrapod but sort of back in deeper. I don't know. They've moved it in place Hmm Wow, this just raises more questions. Yeah So raises more questions than it answers It says they use fossils to calibrate the molecular clock by removing Listicus from the immediate ancestry of modern tetrapods. It changes the calibration they used in these analysis So it's also going to help them with their biological clock And where they put things. I guess this thing is confusing They're saying it they were they were moving it from immediate Ancestry of tetrapods because I guess it would have been the earliest like early early early tetrapod um But they still put it back in time further so All right snake on the outside fish on the inside All parts Um Justin would you like to hear this week in the obvious The new segment I'd like to start We have a few of those each week. I feel like you have this weekend. Well, duh Yeah, this is kind of like that. It's about mountain lions. So Do you think human voices might alter mountain lion behavior? Okay, uh, do I think Human voices would alter their behavior. Yes. Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding Oh This week in the obvious well a recent study actually took The time to find the actual scientific evidence of weather mountain lions changed their behavior based on human voices so study from uc santa cruz actually went into the santa cruz mountains and they Placed audio equipment at puma kill sites in those mountains and when a puma came to feed The movements triggered a motion activated technology that broadcast recordings of either people talking or Pacific tree frogs A hidden camera captured the responses They wanted to see if they would react with fear and flee Or if they came towards the sound or if they weren't affected by the sound at all Their findings were They almost always ran away from the sounds of humans and almost never ran from the sound of frogs That's something Only once Okay, I think that was just very cagey just yeah In 29 experiments involving 17 pumas the pumas fled in 83 percent of cases as soon as it heard human voices That's a lot and only once upon hearing the frogs. Oh poor buddy So before we have reported on the show about how when pumas are scared away from a kill Then they have to make a new kill And so actually that increases the amount Of kills made in an area by mountain lions if they are often scared away Paces, right? So this basically just solidifies those results completely that when you have humans Making sound in a space where there's mountain lions. First of all, they're more likely to flee than attack And second of all that if they flee and they're at a kill That means now they have to make a new kill so The they found that Pumas that previous study that we reported on they increased their kill rates by 36 percent in areas with high human activity And now we know exactly why So it's interesting about this and this is like no scientific data to back this up whatsoever other than just my happening to We get joggers get attacked by mountain lions, right because they're jogging and well But this is what this is what's interesting It's almost always jogging alone with headphones and i've noticed this I mean I was like is it the jogging or is it the the headphones like was was the Was the puma making noises to scare them off, but they just couldn't hear them As they got the headphones on they're not because they're they're jogging They're distracted, but they're also acting like prey Sure, but but it's also I it made me think now With this the buddy system Where you're talking as you jog carrying out a conversation safer Yeah, absolutely if you're making human sounds puma don't want to mess with that. No Absolutely So if you live in the sanikers mountains Maybe don't go jogging, but also stay on paths. This is the other thing that directly is related to this if we're concerned about mountain lion population dwindling Which is a problem and then on top of that their kill rates going up in specific areas how to how do Both of those things happen at the same time one and two how do we stop both of those things from happening? Well, it's all related to them being scared away. How do we stop scaring them away from their kills? Well, we have to know where the mountain lions like to hang out We set up established trails and we keep people on those trails Then the mountain lions have places to go That hopefully are large enough that they can go be mountain lions and not get scared away by humans but this definitely does mean that for example, you could use human voice recordings to Keep mountain lions out of a certain space That's possible You need to study how how far the human voice carries And then include that when you're trying to think about mountain lion habitat. So this is a whole another thing I mean, we've talked about sound pollution a bunch on the show But when you're talking about a habitat or a natural reserve and you're saying oh, well the mountain lions have 50 acres let's say Well, what if on 30 of those acres you can hear people from the trail? Lion habitat is actually only 20 acres Right and and I think the the danger in putting out these these human voice talkety things out out there in the field to Use as a mountain lion or Puma deterrent Is sort of like if you put fake hunters out there with the deer They would eventually be unlearning That important thing. It's keeping them away from hunters. They're keeping Pumas away from joggers You you want there to be a jogger or you want there to be a human with the human voice That's scaring them away You want that hunter to take down One of that herd for them to continue to be afraid of hunters if you put a bunch of hunters out there making Humanity sounds but nothing bad ever happens. Oh, right. Yes desensitization training. It's not yeah, so That would be my fear that that's also. Yeah, that's a very good point is that that probably is not a great idea, but um, yeah in terms of thinking about habitat management and And things like that it's if you love nature stay away You're human Yes, it's true nature, but stay on the pads That's just oh man. I get so mad if I go hiking with somebody and they start to be out of them What are you you could be trampling a native plant get out of there? I'm oh so fun So fun on a hike. Uh, just do you have a story for us? Uh, yeah, this is uh, I should I think this is a continuation of the new category you've created here um Of this week in obvious a renewable energy source That has seen a great deal of research and development over the past few decades Maybe ending up as a food source being eaten rather than transformed into renewable fuel Recent research into the plant found that its use as a food will be far more valuable economically than as a fuel Plant uses a gorged seed clusters with a surprisingly wide variety of uses as food stuffs What do you think this plant is? Um, if it's in most food I'm gonna go with corn Ding ding ding. Yes monetary terms according to research uh The net social income worth of the plant food production of corn in the u.s. Is 604 dollars per acre Versus a four dollar per per acre loss For biofuel production Um, so we should be talking about clean corn is what you're saying Just eat the corn. It's food. It's a food thing. I support clean corn Yeah, it goes on here using corn as a fuel source seems to be an easy path through renewable energy says richard yurtick uh national science foundation program director for critical zone of Uh observatories, however, this research shows that the environmental costs are much greater and the benefits fewer Than simply using corn for food. Yeah, just eat it Yeah, uh to compare the energy efficiency and environmental impacts of corn production and processing for food And or for biofuel researchers inventory their resources required for corn production All and processing and didn't determine the economic environmental impact of using these resources All defined in terms of energy available and expended and normalized to costs in us dollars Yeah, and it's never a good idea to turn the thing that you Eat and uses a resource in one place as a resource somewhere else Anyway, because it creates a competition between two of your resources a little bit, but Uh, according to this. Yeah, it's still so much more effective To to just grow it and sell it for food than it is to go through this whole biofuel process that I imagine There's corn and everything and and yet it still is That way, you know that much more useful as that food than it is as And there's so many places it's grown, but the other thing too is this is I the idea of biofuel Is is the idea of being sustainable having a renewable resource the one that's not going to just get depleted It's not environmentally friendly in any in any way. So It was an idea that they've been pushing in states that grow a lot of corn But overall it looks like now you're gonna have to get an electric car And yeah put up the solar panels on those on those acres of land and you'll probably be much better off So how long ago was I guess it was about eight years ago when I was an intern I drove a van that was run on biodiesel And I couldn't totally understand What the benefit to biodiesel was because we still paid for biodiesel And I don't I think the idea was that you could You could get recycled biodiesel like you could pay somebody to pick up grease from a restaurant and then refine it and then But nobody did that I will say though That the car smelled like french fries Did it really? That's kind of fun So I'm hungry again. Can we stop at another fast food place? I just got to get some fries. I don't know why Speaking of food I want to talk about probiotics For bees Oh Pro panics for bees So bees we Our little bees bees um They're in trouble They're not doing great and we need them because they're pollinators, right? Yeah And one of the many many many problems that bees are having Is the toxic effect of pesticides They so just let's remind everyone Honeybees pollinate approximately 35 percent of our global food And they contribute an estimated 4.39 billion dollars per year To in this study. This was from canada the canadian economy alone So a Recent study actually looked at how they could teach bees to be More resistant to pesticides And they looked at it with probiotics. That's because When these bees Uh get Affected by this one pesticide that they were testing on. Um what it does Uh neonictenoids they actually Decimate their microbiota So their microorganisms just Are decimated by this pesticide So how can they reduce the negative effects of this pesticide? Well, they give them a probiotic So by administering a strain of probiotic lactobacilli the same stuff that we have in our activia and stuff like that Our our yogurts. Yeah, it's a yogurt. Yeah the survival among fruit flies Which were their model organism for this this study because fruit flies and bees actually have exact identical responses to this pesticide and So when they they administered the probiotic their exposure to pesticides were less less Less deadly basically so They when they got this probiotic boost their their immune system was stimulated And it helped them adapt to infection heat and other stresses But how are they gonna how are they gonna make the tiny teeny tiny yo play containers? Great question Though so the probiotic can actually be easily administered through pollen patties Pollen patties are actually already used by beekeepers to provide nutritional support and antipesticide effects to honey bees so yeah, so just um Hobbyists use these These pollen patties already so now they could just plop some probiotics into these pollen patties They already are a manufactured thing that exists. These already go to them So this is something that could help at least put a Band-Aid On the pollinator situation as a result of pesticides. We could also just maybe stop using the pesticides No, that's just me so for the meantime probiotic pollen patties probiotic pollen patties Do you have any more stories Justin? I thought that I did but I don't seem to be more in the rundown. Hang on a second Um Okay, well while you're looking I'll tell my last story of the night And it's about cuttlefish. Yay. Everyone knows I'm a sephal enthusiast And it's been oh too long since I've talked about a cephalopod on the show So when I heard a recent study about cuttlefish camouflage, I had to bring it to our attention today we've talked a lot about cephalopod camouflage and how They have the ability through chromatophores to change their color and Even flash to communicate and stuff like that. Well, they also can change their Texture and so I want to see if I can screen share. Hopefully my computer won't explode because I'm asking so much of it right now we'll see Oh, it's thinking but this cuttlefish Actually does something that we have not really seen very wild They Use their camouflage to blend in with the background, but this little pharaoh cuddle See if it'll go. I think it's gonna happen. Yes This little pharaoh cuttlefish maybe Actually mimics hermit crabs So the way that they here we go the way Let's turn that down So the way that they puff up they look just like a crab and They can kind of antagonize one another and look like something you don't want to Get up close to so they look like they have a shell their coloration changes They look and they stick their two little tentacles up like little antennae on a crab And they they darken part of that tentacle. So it looks like eyes It looks perfect. So yeah when you when you first pulled that up I thought they were like first we'll show you what a crab looks like Right Now look at this guy crawl too That's amazing what is crazy too. So they saw this in the wild then they took some eggs And they brought them into the lab and they Raised these cuttlefish where they had never seen a crab in their entire lives And they still exhibited this behavior Wow So how do they know what a crab looks like genetic memory? Yeah, so the two theories are either some sort of genetic memory or This theory seems crazy to me. They Of course each had learned this behavior during their embryonic stage when they were in the egg Yeah, yeah Yeah, so wow now that's getting a head start on your education right there Yes crazy camouflaging cuttlefish Do you have any more story justin i got one more uh, and i didn't i didn't have this one prepared But i'm gonna go through it anyway because it's it's i really want to know what happens So, uh, this is where's this this is from televieve university Says here although multitasking is a popular buzzword research shows that only 2 of the population actually multitasks efficiently Most of us just back and forth between different tasks Process that requires our brains to refocus time and time again Reducing overall productivity and about 40 percent Uh, so as many people as there are who are trying to multitask are just doing Two things badly I guess I bet i'm not surprised by that all But the televieve university research identifies a brain mechanism that enables more efficient multitasking And the key to this Is reactivating the learned memory a process that allows a person to more efficiently learn or engage in too tasks In close conjunction Cody voice of dr. Nitzan sensor of uh, the university's school of psychological sciences The mechanism may have far-reaching implications for the improvement of learning and memory functions in daily life It also has clinical implications It may support rehabilitation efforts following brain traumas that may impact motor and memory functions of patients for example When we learn a new task we have great difficulty performing it and learning something else At the same time for example performing a motor task a Uh, say with one hand can reduce performance in the second task That's just performing a different task with the other hand That's sort of like patting your hat head and rubbing your belly at the same time, right? Which I can do amazingly well That way But I have a little bit more difficulty the other way, but still I can do both. I might be a maybe I am one of the two percent I can also chew bubblegum and walk and talk at the same time, but I don't really like um That's fine I says, uh, this is uh, this is due to interference between the two tasks which compete for the same brain resources Dr. Sensor says our research demonstrates that a brief reactivation of a single learned memory in appropriate conditions enables the long-term preservation of or immunity to future interference in the performance Of another task performed in close conjunction Researchers first taught student volunteers to perform a sequence of motor finger movements With one hand by learning to tap onto a keypad A specific string of digits appearing on a computer screen as quickly and accurately as possible After acquiring this learned motor memory. The memory was reactivated on a different day during which the participants were required to briefly engage with The task this time with an additional brief exposure to the same motor task performed with their other hand By utilizing the memory reactivation paradigm the subjects were able to perform the two tasks without interference By uniquely pairing the brief reactivation of the original memory with the exposure to a new memory long-term immunity to future Interference was created Demonstrating a prevention of interference Even a month after the exposures. Well And that one it almost is like I immediately thought of like somebody playing piano right like You're you're doing a one-hand task and now you're doing another task on the other hand Yeah, I kind of I don't know That's kind of different though because that's Your two hands are doing different things, but it's to accomplish one task like it's one It's now if you were trying to play piano and eat a sandwich Right. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. That's what I'm sure. I guess I'm sort of Saying their test which was doing a you know a digit thing on the other hand Yeah, it's that's too surprising that humans can multitask that I've seen people play piano No, you're absolutely right. I would I would I would agree that this is kind of a faulty Test method because that is very much when I play the saxophone My two hands are doing completely different things while I'm blowing air out in a specific way While I might be tapping my foot, but all those things are actually related to one thing right Although although to be fair if you if you To their point, I guess that that what's allowing you to multitask is the practice and muscle memory and that you You are uh, you're not introducing a new task now Well, one of them is just relied on as as a long-term memory already established and then and then the second hand is and so is the adding air What I'm taking taking issue with then I guess but could you do that and eat a sandwich? Right, exactly. So is the definition of the of the of the term kind of multitask I would not call playing an instrument multitasking Yeah Personally because you're telling that person play a d They're not thinking Okay, I'm gonna put three of my fingers here and three of my fingers here and blow out And so they're not thinking about that. They're thinking play a d Which maybe that's the point of the study is that once you once you put one of them into a long-term memory thing Then then you can rely on it to not be Interfering with a new task But that's still a I'm I'm arguing that that's still a singular task What makes it a multitask is driving and eating those are both things that you're going to do separately and together But I've practiced both eating and driving enough If that's what the test is That's one thing But if the test is to do two different things with your hand in the same way always the same time That's that's not really Not a great test unless it's the first time you've done it. I think that's the point. I think that's the point of this is that Multitasking and their per dime went when it when you get sort of the competing Thing going on in the brain is when you're doing a new task, which when you think about like a conversation like talking on the phone and doing something One should be The conversation that you're having isn't a way always a new task It's not the same exact conversation Usually that you've just had moments before or the day before or the month before And and so talking on the phone while trying to play saxophone Well, obviously saxophone stuff because you're using your mouth there But while playing piano and having a conversation might be a difficult thing when your brain is actually having to think about The question that was just put before you or how to respond to something somebody said right But if you were singing a song that you've memorized that goes along with it That's part of that one task and just another element that seems like that would be easier Yeah, absolutely I don't know All right, jesson. Do you think we did a show? I think we're at the end of it in any case that All righty. Well, then I think you know what time it is. I'm gonna try to duplicate something that kiki does and There's no way I'm going to be able to do this without stopping But it's time for our shout outs Patreons Yes, so I am going to attempt now. Can we try we could do either either or like every other one No, no, no, no That's absolutely not gonna work All right, here we go. 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And that was another episode of this weekend science. We did it. All right, Blair. I'm going to let you go, because I know you're sick. Yeah. Recover, get your voice back. Is there anything you wanted to talk about before we go? No. No. Did you have anything? Uh. I got the, I'm not going anywhere. Oh, you're going to, you can, if I leave, it'll die. No, no, I didn't mean that. I mean, I meant I was going to not hold you to a length of time. Finally, we all die. Well, I can hang out. No, I should go. Fine. Can I play? Did you not tell me that I should go right now? No. I would suggest, I was saying, yeah, you're not feeling good. Go rest. Like, get better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all I was saying. You should go to work today. You didn't? No. Oh, OK, yeah. Get some rest. Yeah. We'll see you next week back here. Same science time, same science station. Yeah, hopefully I'll have a full voice by then. You sure heard me yesterday. You didn't sound too bad. Oh. I mean, you didn't sound bad at all, actually. Yesterday, I had this zero voice. Wow. That's always fun. Talking like this yesterday. And then I was about to text you and Kiki and be like, I'm hoping I'll have a voice tomorrow, but. And then Kiki beats you to it with that. I'm not going to be around. And Kiki's like, can you host the show? I was like, I guess, I guess, I guess. Lea finally gets a big break, hosting this week in Science on her own. And then her voice came out. And she was a half an hour. Because she was working around back at Google+, instead of YouTube to start the Sassafras and Hangout. Because why would the Google Hangout be in Google? It has to be in YouTube. Duh. Because it's not a Google thing. It's a YouTube thing now. No, but YouTube is a Google thing now. I thought Google was, oh, yeah. No, you're right. Yeah. So that's like, is this the Google Hangout? No. No. Like I thought that it would be. Google Hangouts is now a YouTube thing. Oh, YouTube was acquired by Google. All of YouTube was acquired by Google. OK. I don't know how to do it. But by now, Google Hangouts on air broadcasting to YouTube, it already did that. But now it's much more intertwined than it ever was before. But so it used to be, like even maybe the lot. It's probably two times ago when I started the show. It was still through Google+, that you started the show. And then I tried to find it in YouTube, and I got lost. And then I tried to find it in Google, and got even more lost in the interwebs. It was very upsetting. I was so lost in the webs, in all those tubes, in the series of tubes. There was just no way through and no way out. But I figured it out just 20 minutes late. Sorry, Kiki. I know I'm fired. Well, if there was anybody else who could run the show, maybe. But seeing as out was you were nothing. That's my job security. That's OK. My idiocy with computers. My being a complete luddite, the absolute job security. Well, also my 2011 MacBook Pro was trying to not have it. Yeah. It was like, you want me to do what now? I'm six years old. In computer years, that's like 150. Actually, I think, no. The computer I'm running on isn't that. How do you like your Chromebook? Oh, actually, I used it for that weekend. Did you return it? No. I gave it to my daughter. Oh, you gave it to your daughter. That's good. She does some schoolwork stuff on there. Plus it's handy, because then like multiple kids in the house during the summer here, there's like one YouTube or Netflix that shows up on the television. And if the kids don't agree, now I can be like, hey, can't you go just watch it on your personal device? And they're like, oh, that's fun. And I got her headphones and a little mic, like we're built into it. So she can do her own. Did you put a twist sticker on there? No, I didn't. I don't have any stickers. That's not true. I got patches is what I have. I have the patches all over. Any stickers? You could have had some when we were. I didn't think about it. I didn't think, oh, I've got something. But I've got like four patches. Like there's my travel luggage, my camera bag. I got, oh, I did get, I don't know where it is though. I did get the tote. Tote came. So I got a whole tote I can take to the store with this weekend science on it. And of course, the best, this is by far the most efficient mouse pad I've ever had. The mouse just glides over the surface. Yeah, I got a mouse pad through Zazzle too, but with the, with the toad on it. And I have that at work now. I love it. Oh, a toad bag. Yeah, toad bag. Toad bag. I get it. Yeah. Toad bag. OK, I'm going to go. Oh, that's great. You added another yawn to the compilation that we're building. Good. Blair yawns. Blair yawns on camera. Blair's yawns. I'm going to do it. Let me finish. In my, but I just wanted to, I though I was just going to say, I was just going to, I just wanted to say. Yeah, those. Let me finish. Do you think she likes it when I do weird alternate endings or do you think she does it? I can't tell. You didn't need weird alternate endings. Scripted back and forth at the end of the show. You know how sometimes I kind of go off a little bit off the rails with it? I, you know, like. I think it's fun because like why keep listening, right? If it's going to be the exact same. I don't think I've ever read it as it's written. Yeah. It's just sort of like a guideline. I bring in stuff from the, from the show that we talked about. Yeah. Yeah, that's all. Well, when she edits this episode, she'll get to hear this and then tell us. Kiki, tell me what you think. She won't listen to the whole show. She's got, she's too busy. Well, now we'll know. Kiki, tell us what you think. I think we busted her once. I think we busted her one time where we did a show and then she came back the next week and had a story that we had covered. Yeah. And we're like, oh, that's interesting. And then this happens. She's like, yeah, that's what they've been. And you're like, oh, she's like, yeah. And we're like, oh, no, but we never mentioned it. We didn't. Oh, no. I don't, we might have in the after show, but we didn't during the show. We just let the story roll. Like, all right, we're in. Let's see. Maybe she's got a different take on it. Let's see. Oh, my gosh. OK, that's three odds. That's enough. OK, tonight, say goodnight, Blair. Thanks for stopping by. See you next week.