 Welcome back to The Breakfast on PlosTV Africa. We're now going to be talking health and of course this is with regards to the pandemic. Fighting COVID-19 with Herbal Medicine, the Afro-Babalala University yesterday put out a celebration and the message saying that they have been able to put together a Herbal Medicine, a Herbal Drug, that works effectively in the fight against COVID-19. It had been tried on a few people and seemed to be very, very effective. We're speaking this morning with Professor Olaposi Omotui who's a director of research at the Babalala University. Good morning Prof, thanks for joining us. Good morning, thank you very much for having us again this morning. All right and this should be good news, seeing that we're dealing with a pandemic across the world. Over time we have spoken about Nigeria and not being able to know exactly what the peculiarities of our COVID-19 situation is, but this is something that we should be celebrating, seeing that more lives will be saved if this drug is fully approved and put to use. So kindly share with us a little bit about this Herbal Drug. How was it put together and what did it take? Okay, good morning and again I thank you so much for having us. There's a bit of history to all of this. About 60 to 65 percent of drugs that are very active against different kind of diseases in the world actually are from plants. See that they are not really from plants or they are modified from a plant's parents' comfort. So for us this is just like the jahu coming back to what always works and I want to tell you that in 2019 when this happened the founder of the University Chief Reha Fewa Balula felt it was going to be something very big and that the world would probably suffer if we do not quickly address the situation. So at that point he assembled all of us and said let us begin to look into plants as possible alternatives to what the West was doing at that particular time. The West was looking into synthetic drugs, looking into FDA approved drugs, looking into vaccine development. He said look this is where we have strategic advantage plants. So let's pick it up and begin to do some screening. And of course what we did was not doing it like regular other people would do it, just make claims based on folkloric use that is to say how people have been using these things pre-historically. He wanted us to deploy science to investigate the possible potencies and to be able to screen using specific mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2 pathogenesis. So these were the things we put together for the screening protocols in the first place and were able to narrow 18 starting plants down to just about two. Out of the two one of them, because we didn't have the intention of carrying it forward, we quickly published our findings and that will be for Aframumum, Miligwata for those who don't know, it is called Atari in Yoruba. This one of the most potent anti-SARS-CoV-2 plants that I know just before the recent one. Just about two weeks ago, five universities in America, they came together and wanted to really show or to be sure that what we did in Africa a year earlier was right. And they came to the same conclusions even better that Atari, that is for Mosiah, is not only capable of taking care of SARS-CoV-2 in culture but also could also do that for SARS-CoV-1. So if you have exposure to SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV-1, you could use that. Now we're now telling you that the one we have right now with the brow phylon species is even more potent than that. And we are army biomedical scientists, so what I'm going to be doing physically is to use those instruments of science to probe into all of that. And that's exactly what we did. And when we got the chance to map that, we thought it was approval. Yeah, I just wanted to also get you to speak on this. When we talk about COVID-19 vaccines, they always say it's 90 percent, 95 percent effective in dealing with the virus. Is there any clarity on how effective this particular drug is or this herbal drug is? Thank you very much. That's a very good question. Yesterday we were making presentations to Naiman and Naiman is Nigerian Institute for Medical Research, probably the only body in Nigeria that has the statutory responsibility to try such claims out and to make very valid statements on innovations like this. So one of the things we presented to them was to make comparison between the cocktail are being used right now approved by WHO in comparison with ours that is your resident. So if 100 people were put into trials from the current cocktails available right now, at the end of three weeks, only 35 percent would turn out negative, meaning that the virus would have been cleared by, I mean, in only 35 people out of 100. If you do, if you repeat this same experiment, probably under the same very close condition with the virus, then the number is 85 percent. In three weeks? In three weeks. As a matter of fact, the time, the mean time, like, okay, let's say the median time, so clearance is seven days for us. So if you start taking the virus today in seven days, you should test negative. So if this, of course, these are just, these are just what we did by our own team. We are now saying government people, please come. This is our submission. This is your facility. We'll just turn and watch. You try it. So it must have, we must have a very high level of confidence to tell them, do it. And of course, after five hours of serious drilling yesterday, all of us can do the same conclusion that this might be our best gateway to the world. Okay. So it's a brilliant, you know, brilliant one. And everyone pretty excited because there's been the constant call that we should, you know, find homegrown solution for, you know, all of our problems and the health issue or the health sector is not also left out. But can you kindly tell us if, you know, this Hebo drug has actually met the scientific method or did the scientific process, of course, that's been recommended by the WHO? Okay. Thank you. It's a very important question. I would have to quickly say this, that we at the Hebo University are not just teaching students, but we are adopting what is called the functional education paradigm. Functional education in the sense that we look at the university as a fulcrum to solving societal problems. And now, on this particular note, it's a health problem. And we are going to look at this solution from the scientific point of view. And in science, if you want to develop drug, and I have to quickly tell you a very important background, I was with Nagasaki University therapeutic innovation center for years. We were developing drugs for Japanese government at that particular time. So I was in that team. Now, here, what we usually do is to look at what exactly is responsible for a particular disease. In this case, it is SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus. So the question is, how does the virus gain entrance or entry into the host, which is human in this case? Is there something we can do to block that from happening? That's one. Number two, if the virus has eventually gained entry into the host cell that is human, is there something we can do to stop that virus from being able to process itself, to multiply itself? That's number two. If the virus eventually has the capacity to multiply itself, is there something that we can do to mitigate the effect on the human, generally? So these were the three pathways we were seriously researching on. And that is the basis for which our herbal cure was actually based, basically. Okay. Is there any clarity on whether this is effective regardless of the variant of COVID-19? Omicron, Flu-Ricron, whichever name, can we be sure that this is effective regardless of how COVID-19 transforms itself? I think that is the most important question that I think everyone should be asking now. And let me give you a bit of clarity. A lot of people started with isopleroquine, if you make 10, for example, around the Syria, one of the major problems with all of these drugs was that they were working mechanistically now on a particular aspect of the viral pathogenesis. How is this different? How are working, I mean, is working rather on four different pathogenic areas? When Omicron mutated, and I also have to add this very quickly, just yesterday, a very high impact particular accepted our work on Omicron. We immediately, Omicron genome was sequenced at the South African Institute. We quickly picked up that data, and we use it to understand the functional importance of that mutation. And we understood that it became a super binder, which is true, and of course, had the ability to evade immunity. Just now they are now reporting that, oh, it is true. What this guy said, that was not accepted for publication just yesterday in around 5 p.m. Now, it means that we are closely monitoring the evolution of this virus with time. And that the Omicron itself has mutations basically, I mean, in the area of its two bindings, which is of course important for invasion into the host cell. But ours even work beyond that. So if it becomes a super binder and it bites and it gets to the cell, we are waiting for it to want to make up what is called the viral. The viral are the new particles. Ours will block it. And just for emphasis, some of the people that have, you know, tested our innovation successfully actually had delta virions. And there is no reason we wouldn't be able to take care of Omicron, regardless of that, because ours is not just working as a monopharmacological agent, but as a poly-pharmacological agent. One plant able to inhibit different aspects of the pathogenesis. That's our thing. Okay, so let's also begin to look at, you know, some of the, I mean, in comparison, because for those who are vaccinated, you hear that if you have taken the false dose, it does not prevent you from contracting the virus again. I mean, it's just aware of saying it would reduce the severity of the case. Is that also, you know, the same with, you know, the herbal drug that your institution or your university has come up with? Okay, no. In terms of the fine details, no. And I'll try to explain this for people who are not probably scientists. When you take vaccine, there are two kinds. Some of them can help you to raise what is called antibodies against that particular, in this case, SARS-CoV-2. But the problem is once the initial pathogen, which is the virus here, mutates. It's always very difficult for the antibodies to catch up. And that's the reason why people need booster doses. And I don't know how long we're going to be taking, so some have taken four already. Maybe we are going to age before the end of the year. That doesn't work like that. What we, what hours do, basically, is not to prevent in terms of the fine vaccine, what has it got now, how vaccine works. No. Hours is when, before you contract it, it will help or prevent you from contracting because we have some of the components of our virus then, and it's called an entry in the beetle. Entry beetle means that once you have our virus in your system, the virus cannot attach to yourself. And for those who have contracted it, we have some components in the virus then that will stop the virus from being able to multiply in your body. For those who already have contracted and the virus is already multiplying, it will reduce the severity of your symptoms, meaning that you will not be able to go to ICU. You would not probably need intubation. So are you saying that, you know, the herbal drug is a cure? It's a cure. That's it. That's what we're saying. It's a cure. And it can also be used prophylactically. Prophylactically means it can prevent from that from happening. Okay. Professor, how long and what would be the process that is needed before it is fully approved and full production starts with this drug? Thank you. These are multi-process things that happen. You have to move from one state to the other. But as we began to record these levels of substances, we also began to attract very important partners, both national and international partners. One of the things, one of the national partners that I like, because I don't want to talk about national partners, the national that I like is the NIMA, because they have the responsibility to test, to validate any of these pharmaceutical innovation claims on behalf of the federal government. After making our presentation and our regular checks with them, they were very enthusiastic. And as of yesterday night, around 11, 11.30, the team that we eventually test them in their own laboratories, we already have a meeting, because we were actually on a social platform where we could track what we're doing. All the necessary MOUs, MTAs are ready. By this morning, I'm sure the two legal entities from the universities and of course NIMA will be signing some of these papers. So that means that in a month, we might actually be at a point where we are fully ready, not only for production and probably for shipment outside Nigeria, because I think it is the best, like one of them in NIMA said yesterday, very respected Dr. Chika, he said this might probably be Nigeria's you know, best food ever in terms of pharmaceutical innovation to the world. So I do not think it's going to be beyond this. And again, I will have to tell you that immediately the results started coming in in the laboratory, the founder of the university, and also quickly started putting plants in place for commercialization. And that is in what is called the Upward Industrial Research Park. In that park, we have the AB Pharmaceuticals in which I was instrument, I was there when the contracts for the acquisition of the equipment was signed. About five billion, that was why he signed out that particular day, I remember. And I can tell you right now, some of the pieces of these machineries are already in Nigeria. So by the end of this month, I expect every of the components to be on site. And by February, all of us are going to be on there to make sure that the plants are put together to be able to start production early March. So like I said again, this man, 95 years old, is not just thinking about this, already thinking about the future. Before anybody thought of performance screen dependence in Nigeria, he had that vision and is allowed to pursue it big time. Okay, pretty exciting there. And the question here would be, in what format is this Hebao cure, I mean medicine coming through, you have said that it's not just- Thank you very much. In what format is that going to come through? And also- So it's a two in one question. The first is, in what format is this Hebao drug going to come through? The second question would be, are there challenges, I mean in the course of coming through with this Hebao medicine and drug for COVID-19, what are the challenges that you were faced with? First, we had discussions around the usage format yesterday at the meeting with Naima. Within Nigeria, I think that it's going to be a syrup, a 100 mil bottle syrup, that's what it's going to be. But in terms of being able to ship outside Nigeria, because I think the world needs us now. So I think syrup might not really be workable around that. So we probably have to also be looking at tabletting these formulation. So these are the two that I'm looking at right now. There could be more, of course that would be left for Pharmacist Apolabi, the team lead in the pharmaceutical production to figure out. I'm just a basic biomedical researcher. We have a lot of people who are working on this. In my team alone, we have more than 10 people, brilliant, young, you know, well-trained scientists who can think through all of this within the university. Okay, then the second question is what again? The second question is in the course of coming through with this Hebao medicine to combat COVID-19, what are the challenges that you and the institution would have encountered or have encountered? I think the first challenge we had was funding. Personally, I thought it was funding. But you have a lot, just like broke banks, you know, to fund the research. It spared nothing. But eventually, when the success came, people are now here, trying to assist in one way or the other. And apart from that, I don't think there's nothing. The regulatory agencies were not also forthcoming. You know, these things with Hebao medicine claims, counterclaims, and a lot of people are comfortable with a lot of things. So actually the COVID organics from Madagascar, so everybody was at some level of paranoia around all of that. But I think immediately we started opening our books and decided seeing what we're doing, they came into our labs, they saw what we were doing, they came to the university, most of them was probably one of the best hospitals in Nigeria, even with West Africa. They saw what we were doing. They didn't have too much, you know, problem going forward with us. And I think we have to give good news to the DG of NAVDAC, because she should have waited for us to come to her, but she passed the process. She came to us and said, I've been hearing what people are doing. Please open your book and don't say what people are doing. And I can say that she has it on record that this is exactly how this should be done all over the world in terms of how we approached this. So we didn't just make any claim like all the Hebao practitioners would make claim, but we went, we took it through the rigors of science. And that's exactly why everybody seemed to be on the same page with us. Otherwise they would have been having prejudices saying a lot of other things, you know? Well, let me also quickly ask this. You know, and I believe it might be one of the fears, you know, that might have crossed your mind. The use of this drug, if it is approved here in Nigeria and in other parts of Africa, seem to be very effective, saving lives, preventing complications of COVID-19 and some of all of that. It kind of means killing business for the likes of Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson and, you know, those vaccine makers across the world that are making billions of dollars from, of course, selling their vaccines. So is there a fear that this might be blocked, Professor Motui? Yeah, well, of course. I'm not a businessman, but I understand because I run some, you know, shows. So I understand maybe there could be some kind of fear. But let me put this very confident with you. We are not competing with Pfizer because we can't even compete with them in the first place. We are only offering complementary support. Look at what happened. The reason we got to women in the first place was because the vaccine distribution network broke down at some point that it looks like very rich, high income countries just blocked everything, forgetting that an infection in one area of the world is an infection to the entire world. So I think Pfizer, in my opinion, should come to Abwad and see us more as a partner and not like a threat of competition. We are not threats to them. And that's number one. Number two, what the Pfizer vaccine does is not exactly what Abwad will see them does. The Pfizer vaccine in the long run might provide some kind of, you know, immunity for anybody. But when someone is or has contracted COVID-19, Abwad will see them should be the stopgap for such people. So after the reason I will not say, if you have the means of taking vaccine, you should not take it. I will not say that. The only fear I have is that the rate at which this mutation is going on. We even make their vaccines less effective. It simply means that what Abwad is doing right now is helping them in their business. Because if we can keep the viral, the population with viruses down, the mutation rates will be down, and their platform will be effective in the long run. So if I were Pfizer, I would not see Abwad as a competitor, rather as a partner. Because the reason they need Abwad in the first place is because their vaccines actually got weaker from 87 percent to 43 or 46 percent. But with Abwad, we will see them could actually stay at 87. So it's good enough. So we are not going to drive Pfizer out of business. And Pfizer will also draw the out of business. M and B, Pfizer, Mac, they should come to us and say, okay, you have this. We have the platform for global distributorship. We have the platform for global production. How can we assist with this? This is a global problem. It doesn't matter where it comes from, whether the university is in Kutunau, or the university is in Oxford, or the university is in Leicester, or wherever in the world. It is just a concern that I believe had crossed your mind. I hope that this goes well, and that the Afro-Babalala University and of course your team gets the royalties that they deserve from all of this. I'm always going to think about what could possibly go wrong. I'm sure you are not unaware that Afro-Babalala himself is a legality of international refugees. So you should know that the issue of reality will not be a problem. He is a lawyer. Okay. But let's also quickly, as we begin to cross the conversation down now, let's also look at the issue of if your institution or an organization have been able to experiment on those who have taken the vaccine, because you are saying right here that the Hebel drug is a cure, and not a vaccine, because the vaccine just reduces the severity of the case. And so for those who have been vaccinated, can they also take the Hebel drug? I have a very quick one. I have a practical experience with that. This is the person that has taken the jab two times, started from complete dosage. He is always on his mask, 247. He went with his family to USA and came back and got COVID. All of them were vaccinated and got COVID. It was virus then that killed him. Okay. Two of them, his son and himself. In fact, and that was one of the things that I love the most, when he reached out to us and he said, give us two bottles of virus then he gave to his son, he took his own. He didn't take his, I think he was on the normal cocktail that they were giving to them in the hospital, while the son was taking virus then. After four days, they went back to test. His son tested negative, he tested positive. Then he called and he said, I didn't take mine, now I want to take my time and take mine. After going through the full regimen, he went back to test for test and rather, and he came back negative. Okay. Good thing that we have your contact, just in case we also need to through the back door, get our own. You don't have to go to the back door. That's because I need to get my own little syrup in my jacket pocket. We have your contact and we'll be reaching out to you. Finally, in 20 seconds, if you can, is there any clarity on whether this has side effects? Can people with high blood pressure, can people with diabetes and some of all of that still use this medicine? Is there clarity on some of all those aspects? Let me quickly, let me quickly tell you one secret. Please don't tell it to anybody. The same component that is actually doing the anti-MPRO2 inhibition in COVID and in villicidine has one of the most potent anti-hypoglycemic effects. That is to say, it has the capacity to reduce your blood sugar. Okay. Great way to end the conversation. Dr. Matui, a professor, I beg your pardon, Professor Lapozi Omatui, he's a director of research at the FI Babilala University. I'm looking forward to speaking with you again and we hope that this actually becomes a worldwide cure for COVID-19, not just here in Nigeria. Thank you for the work that you've done so far for speaking with you again. Thank you. All right. Stay with us. President Mohammed Ubarri was on an interview yesterday evening and of course spoke extensively on setting core issues bothering Nigeria as a country. We're going to be taking a look at some of the statements and some of the things that he spoke on yesterday, right next after the shot break.