 Good morning. So, any ideas or any questions about the last day's discussion, yesterday's discussion? Any conjectures? Business to business company. What is positioning? What is positioning? Business to business scenario. For business to business scenario, positioning is value based. You know, just see that value map, the premium, medium value and the economy value. That is typically the positioning which is taken. Positioning, see, either you become a premium brand, a high value brand or a economy brand. Positioning goes like this. Again, you have to have USPs for positioning. You may not highlight it as a consumer goods company do, but still you tend to make, for example, certain aspects you may like to highlight in your customer's mind about you, maybe about servicing, maybe about speed, maybe about quality of the goods you supply, certain USP you have to create in customer's mind. Now, think what are the USPs of a company like LNT, Siemens, ABB, Philips. Those who have, you know, transacted with these companies, what is the first thing which comes to your mind? When you talk of these companies, any B2B company, there is some image of that key USP of that company in your mind. Now, you have to see what is your, it is not easy, it is an iterative process. You do something, your customer is happy with you or something and then you realize this is your strength and then you build on and then you communicate. For a small business, I am just talking from point of view. From a large business point of view, you consciously decide a particular positioning based upon your marketing research. A small business cannot do a systematic research with a big budget. So, he has to meet personally the consumer, just see how he delivers, what is the key features customer have appreciated and then think, yes, it is my strength and let me pitch for this to the other companies. So, it is both way around me. A big business will basically do a lot of marketing research, see what is the existing perception of customer about him, existing positioning and where he does want to take. When it comes to positioning in the premium as a premium product or targeting premium segment, is it like taking a too big a bite for a small company or a early stage company to gun for a premium segment and if it is not, because there are like brands which have developed over a period of time which cater to a small premium segment market, but they have taken long time. So, is it as a prescription, can we say that the small company should not gun for the premium segment or it is not like that, how do we tackle this thing, if I am as a new company should I put a premium segment at all for a product or should I just keep away from it. See, you can look for that, but you have to be patient enough for the brand to be established. I have given example of L'Oreal, L'Oreal hair colors, you know. L'Oreal is in India for so many years, but because of some cultural things Indian women did not adopt L'Oreal for almost a decade, but very recent and L'Oreal kept on pursuing with its efforts of pushing this brand, premium brand of hair color to the market. It consistently invested, so that is one, so you patients in investment and patient in you know with your brand is one thing which you probably have to do because it will get, second thing you have to do is try like I said try some key opinion leaders twice start with one in your market, pursue that person to use your product and then see it is not bad to go for a premium product, only thing you have to be established credibility for that product. If you are in that field for 6, 7 years, your channel numbers are also confident that you will not go away, they will also push a product. See, just see there are many brands of herbalties, creams which are very costly, which are premium range, just go to any shop. You have never heard of these companies earlier, but they are still pursuing and I have seen the sales taking off slowly and slowly, best way for a small business is probably target a niche opinion leader in that area, say Shanaz Hussain, convince them to use that product in their parlours. I am just saying you know, if it is something like this and then other things will be taken care of. It can, you can promote the premium product, just have to see what brand you want to communicate. Now, I am coming to that issue of brand here, you are talking of premium product, premium product means what? Premium product means the product is of high quality, high price and high value, not only high value. Then a premium image that is what is brand, brand is a image in your mind. Now, what is the difference between a product and a brand? You see, certain differences. First see, what is a product? Can you do a post-mortem of a product and see what it contains, any product? This is a simple post-mortem of a product. In the centre is the core benefit you get, functional benefit or a steam benefit, functional benefit, core benefit of any product which satisfies them for some basic need, core benefit. And if you are able to satisfy core benefit, we call it as generic product. Forget names, tags, logos and other things. A generic product is what? Which satisfies some basic need of yours. If you add certain features, it becomes an expected product. For example, you want a mobile phone, what is the basic need it satisfies? Communication. Communication. What is the basic thing? Core benefit. You are able to talk and you are able to send some message. That is all. No more, no less and store some numbers, not more than that. When mobile phone came, these were the Keith 2, 3 features which were there. Now what? This is a core benefit and that was a generic product. Expected product is a generic product with some expected features. For example, you should be able to use that mobile phone in a user friendly way. Numbers should be visible. It should be safe. It should have a decent battery life. That is expected, not more, not less. That is all. This is expected product. So mobile phone for basic, if it receives calls and you are able to dial it, it is a basic product, generic benefit, generic product. But if it is safe, it has a decent battery life, it is expected. Augmentation. Augmentation happens to expected products. For example, you start providing a colored screen. That is the augmentation. No tangible benefit, great benefit is increased from black and white to colored screen. Then you start providing some tunes. You start providing again some more features, a camera. Increase the features, increase the memory, provide a mp3 player, provide a FM radio. These are augmentations. These augmentations happens to every product and the product goes to augmentation level. Highest form of augmentation is the potential product. Highest form is something as self-actualization. Just see what is happening to mobile phones. How they have graduated from a basic mobile phone. You remember the first Siemens heavy set, you know, and just see the type of phones. These are augmentations which have happened over a period of time. That are the very basic generic product giving you core benefits. Augmentation that happened. Any product proceeds like this. And competition of products happens at each level. Most of the competition helps at expected and augmentation level. Augmentation level, competition. 1.3 megapixel camera versus 2 megapixel camera. So when you go and purchase a mobile phone, what do you compare actually as per your need? You compare these things only. Augmentation level. When you augment, feature your price also increase. And then there are different segments which to whom you cater and who uses your product. You can compete with your competition at each level. Now what happened in your life industry? Reverse happened. It was at augmentative level. Existing. Indian Airlines then came jet. They provided services at augmentation level. But then came A Deccan who came down and came down to a basic generic product providing core benefit that is faster transportation from one place to another. So he did the reverse thing. He followed the model of South West Airlines in U.S. Who basically is the pioneer of low cost airlines in this world. And then many European airlines followed. So they followed that model. So every product competes at all levels. You have to see. Now this also represents the, in a way, the competition. Competition level, the segments also. This represents the segments also. You can say there are people who will buy only product with the core benefit or a generic product because they can pay for that. There are people who want augmented products at different levels. But you can just think of a product. For example, we are discussing a basic security. He said one person said I make a security product which costs 6000 rupees. Now it has certain features. They might have adopted from some technology which is available. Now I asked him can you sell it for 600 rupees? Reduce the features. Just give a basic security device with some basic features. Probably 600 is the amount many people will like to afford given the feature. Some segments mass market will like to do that. Again 6000 is too cost as compared to a simple lock and key. But still you expand your market. When you reduce price and in a country like India, you slide down a pyramid. There is a very good book from C. K. Pralhar, bottom of the pyramid. If you could read that, that is a very interesting book. A good message. The same thing. When you reduce the price and give some quality, quit some features, benefits, you address to a larger market. So just see a product at different levels. Just see whether you should compete at an augmented level or you have to step down below. Because that will also indicate the cost or price of the product where that goes side by side. And then same value. There is an example of a glue. What is the core benefit of a glue? Fxing. What is a gender product? Liquid material to bond wood. Something like fevicol. What is expected product? It should be safe, long lasting, easy to use, usable. Some basic things in good pouches packet, augmented product, packs, small packs, bigger packs, handy tips, guides, you need. And potential product, any product with all the possible, you know, best product, extreme product, which every product tries to become. Similarly, a product based upon this, we can again think of products as a family at different levels. Which again defines the market for your products. A basic level is a need family, like we discussed yesterday. Then product family, product class, product line, product type. A product type belongs to product line. This is terminology which is normally used in marketing and also depicts how you can go ahead with product extensions. Need is basic. Example is secure, secure security is a need. Product family can be financial security. There can be other products to address this need. There can be physical security. There can be other types of securities. If we can talk of one line of products that is financial security. Product class can be saving products. FD is insurance is so many classes of product. And within one product line, there can be, within insurance there can be a life insurance product. Within the life insurance product, there can be many products again. So say 20 years life insurance policies. And then there can be a single item within the product or intangible product we call SKU, stock keeping unit. And in this case, it can be a single premium life insurance policy, annual premium or whatever. This is a hierarchy of products. Basic is the need family. So from need to different product levels, this analysis is also very important and helpful. Now this also related to this is understanding your competition, which is one of the most important parts. Let us take an example. As I asked yesterday, who is a competitor of Coke and Pepsi? Or in this case, if I ask you who is a competitor of Diet Coke? What comes to your mind? Diet Pepsi, everybody will say. But that is at one level. That is a competition between item to item, product line to product line. At another level, these two products have a competition. See the bigger circle from regular colas, diet lemon, lemon limes and favorite, food favorite colas and other colas. Do they have a competition? Will somebody prefer that? Not drink a Diet Coke and drink some fruit cola like a pee? At another level, at beverage level, there is a competition. Tea, wine, beer, juices, coffee. Same product. Do they have competition? Like we discussed yesterday, which market? Or do you think that Diet Coke has a competition with ice cream, fast food, basketball, video rentals? Do you think it has? Do you think this product has competition with these products? It is there. It is there at budgetary level. Because when you have a budget for something, the budget for entertainment, then these options are open to you. As a, think yourself as a, in a situation like there is a Diwali and you have some budget, how will you spend your money? What options you have? You want to buy crackers, you want to buy sweets, you want to go out for a movie, you want to take out family, you want to buy something for the family, you want to go to a movie. So, movie has a competition with crackers, sweets has a competition with a gift. So, because there is a competition at budgetary level, where you budget for some money. You think. So, there is a competition at this level. Again the competition will go on. For example, you decide to go to a movie. At movie level, there is a competition. Which movie? English movie or a Hindi movie? So, Hindi movie. Again, Hindi movie then which movie? There might be couple of movies released during Diwali time. Like last Diwali, I remember there was Samvaraya and one more very famous, Om Shanti Om. So, probably you will think twice which movie should I go. So, you probably, this is an iterative process and that is if you see how you behaved during that time. You probably compared all those things. Many of you might have compared, some of you might have compared. So, competition like which I described yesterday, video conferencing as a competition with the airplanes. So, your product has competition with so many other products which you might not have imagined actually. So, this analysis, product analysis helps you in reaching to those level. Just see, just draw circles like this. Died Pepsi versus Died Coke at one level. Then at another level, my product has a competition with this. At another level, it is a competition with this. And highest level, budgetary level is, it is competing with these products. So, it is a budgetary level competition, generic level competition, product category competition, product form competition at all levels. What should you do when there is an intense competition in the product form, product category, generic or budget? See, sometimes competition keeps on shifting from one form to another. Customers, so the your task is to, is slightly different and different competitions. Convince customer that brand is better than others. If there is more intense competition of product form, then you are better than your competing brand, this brand level. And the life boy is better than Nirmabath, that is all, product category. Convince customer that product form is best in category. Now, if there is a competition between one level you have a life boy competing with Nirmabath, second level life boy is competing with some liquid soaps, product form. So, you have to convince that life boy is better than XYZ liquid soap. Generic. Convince customer that product category is best way to satisfy needs. For example, in your case, there is a cream and there is a surgery. So, if you sense that there is a competition at this level and customers see, you can compete with those surgeries. I am not saying you know, I do not know or with something else. So, you can, you have to convince customer at different level and there will be customer who will have to be convinced at different level. So, understanding customer what they have in their mind, what competition they see, some competition, some customer may see competition at generic level, some see at form level, some brand level. So, understanding that is also a task and that is how you promote your product. But at a budgetary level, it is probably the money they have kept for the cosmetics. You know, this is the biggest level. Whether you can enter into that budget or not, if you do not enter the budget, that is he or she is not your customer, just think. Do not try to pursue them. Just think of a customer who has a bigger budget and you can enter his or her budget. So, you segment the market as per the paying capacity of the customer, existing paying capacity of the customer. It can vary after some time. What is a new product? From a customer point of view, what is a new product? See, new product, one you think what is new product, second a customer thinks what is a new product. Just see the categories of new products. It can be a new to the market. The first axis is whether it is slightly new product or completely new product. If it is completely new product, it is a new to the market and new to the company. If it is slightly new product, it can be new in a given market or it can be new in a given industry. Now, just think how many completely new products come in the market every year. Very few, very few compared to the number of existing products, very few products come in the market. Completely new product is a domain of R and D most of the times. Some new molecule, some new product which comes out of R and D and that is completely new product and there are very few actually. So, what should one do actually? You cannot depend always on R and D, always modify existing products and pose them as a new product. New product means if you increase value, it is a new product, if you decrease value, it is a new product. For a customer, if you slightly change the value proposition, it becomes a new product. If you stripe down the airlines from highest to the generic level, it is a new product. Railways did an experiment, you know, they have started new coaches with a third seat in the side. It is a new product from railway. They thought it will be great benefit to them because they do not want to increase the price of tickets and with this they will increase the number of seats by 10% in any each coach and they will increase the revenue. But the value proposition is not so great and customer straight away rejected actually. There were a lot of complaints about that seat and railways have not decided to withdraw that new product. They will not be manufacturing coaches with the three side seats. Now they have to think something else on what new product, so what changes they should make in their product? They are also in a problem, they have to introduce new products. So think how you can improve upon your product, increase value proposition or value probably increase benefits for same cost or reduce cost for same benefits, whatever. Increase value to the customer. If you think of new to the world products that will be very few, very difficult to come. Just see how you can modify the existing product and present to the existing market as a new product. Take the case of detergent industry. What inventions can be made in detergents to bring something great detergent? Do you think it is possible? Because chemistry and chemical R and D is already at very high level and there is no great product which is coming in detergent industry. What can you do to detergents? So should all the detergent manufacturers stop introducing new products? Are they doing that? No. They are introducing new products with slight modifications. They are playing with fragrances. They are playing with pouches. They are trying to increase the value proposition in other ways rather than just focusing on some core benefit or cleaning and all that. What is the lesson? The lesson is you can also modify your products which suits a different segment and that is a new product for the segment. Any information, any data, if you package in another form and submit to and present to some different set of customers, that is a new product. So new to the market. That is a new to the market. A product in a different segment is new to the market because it is very difficult to think of, very difficult to think of absolutely new to the world product coming to the market every time. Try to modify and this is a marketers domain. Marketer means that how to bring slightly new products. Marketing plays with this only actually. Modify a product, make it more user friendly, club the features that is a new product in the market known as MFT, multifunctional device. Have you used fax, photocopier, telephone and printer as a single device? Do you think it is a great product? Have you used this product? It is very cheap also, less than 10,000 rupees. But it is one of the excellent products in the market and it has killed so many competition, so many competing products. It is a photocopier, it is a fax machine, it is a scanner, it is a printer, it is a telephone also. Now all these technologies were available since from decades. But it is a marketers job who has probably promoted this idea that why not club all these technologies and form a single product. Scanners, fax machines, printers, they were all available, not technologies were available. But combining these technologies and bringing a new product is a marketers domain. It starts with the marketing concept, marketing thinking, combining some parts. Now this product has replaced so many products now in offices. You do not need very heavy photocopier machine in many offices. In many offices you still need but in many offices you do not need a photocopier operator, machine operator. You can have individual machines and they are very cheap. With a scanner you need not have many photocopies also. You can state away scan and fax, scan and send. The message is you can think something different how to increase the value. So it has increased the value proposition for the customers actually. And the price is reducing. It is not very costly. Give some clarity on the difference between industry and market. Market is people. Yeah. An industry. Economist view market as a place where buyer and seller meet. But in marketing we define market as group of customers, buyers. And industry as a group of sellers. Like when you say automobile industry I mean Hyundai, Tata, Maruti, Honda. When I say market for automobile I mean customers of automobiles. Automobile industry means supplier of automobiles. So industry typically means suppliers and market means buyers. New to industry and new to market. New to industry and industry supplies the products to the market. So something new to the market is something new to the industry. See some new product, some new technology which was in a different industry earlier. If your industry adopts and builds something new, like for example imaging. Imaging was a domain of what? Cameras, CT scan machines and you know body X-ray machines. That is imaging. Different industry. Imaging was adopted by the office industry or office equipment industry as scanners, fax machines and others. So same technology adopted by the different industry. Technology existed in this world but adopted by different industry for a different purpose, different usage. So it became a new product to the industry. But it existed earlier. So many technologies available with the defense nowadays which, the defense R&D is the highest everywhere in the world. So many technologies which are available, which are adopted by us and then for the customer usage. Many, even many management techniques like PERT, CPM, project management techniques they were developed by the army researchers and others you know. They spend highest on R&D and other. Still there are many technologies which are available with them who can be adopted for consumption for the common consumer actually. Still there are many technologies and we do not know about it. DRDO and others they work on these things only. The many technologies, they have to develop these technologies. For example they have developed special drinks, special food for people for serving in Ladakh highest regions you know who can sustain in minus 20 degree and all that. So many of things they do you know and which can be adopted for consumer market. Many things like this. So completely is very less, slightly is over provocative. We can improve upon, we can look for alternative products, alternative technologies, club with it and then offer it to the market. Slightly is the domain of marketing, marketing thinking. Marketing means marketing department, a marketing thinking, market thinking wherein you keep on assessing your needs and wants of the customers. What is a brand and how it is different from a product? Brand is a product from a known source at very basic level. You can identify, if you are able to identify product from a known source it is a brand. But at another level this is one basic level of a brand and another level it says name with which some benefits and associations are attached. Some benefits, tangible benefits and associations. It is a name, symbol, design, everything. Name, symbol, design, trademark or a combination of these that identifies a seller's goods from competition from other sellers, one seller from other seller distinguishing. This is a very basic level, basic function of brand. The other function of brand is to create an image in the minds of customer, is to create some associations in the mind of customer and that is number 3. A brand is a complex set of consistent beliefs and meanings held by its purchasers and users which are associated with the product or service but which exist over and above its obvious physical function. The last line is important, brands are found in people's head. Products are found in shelves, brands are found in people's shelves or people's minds. Basic function of brand is to distinguish one seller from another but over a period of time every brand have some associations, some stories which become, which makes it a stronger brand as compared to other brand. It forms an imagery in the minds of the consumers. The job of a marketer is to get away from generic product competition and get into a brand. Worst case is you get into a generic competition where people do not bother about your brand. For example, people stop giving preference to Basmati rice. What will happen? What is the cost of Basmati rice compared to a normal rice? What is the price? People stop purchasing Kohinoor Basmati rice or Indiagate Basmati rice but people have certain mindset about a certain source. They have attached certain beliefs with that source because of some tangible benefits and some associations, both. There is a tangible benefit also and plus there are associations also. Whether it is a consumer market or a business market basic theory remains same. It is challenge in business market because the purchase behavior is very different. Like we discussed in case of a renewal miras, how will the normal consumer judge the quality of an Almira? Difficult but if suppose you as a industry or a defense industry has to buy Almiras, 1000 Almiras they have to buy. Do you think they will buy like this? They will come up with certain inspection and technical standards. They might check the gear of each Almira right or even might visit the factory at how you are painting it. Just stove painting or which type of painting you are doing. So purchase behavior is different. Evaluation of product is different. That is why building a brand you think is a little challenging in business market because customer evaluation of the product, customer involvement with the product is intense actually. And there are, there is not a single customer or two customer. There is a set of consumers and influencers. There is a user, there is a consultant, there is a purchase man, there is a person who has to pay. He might be different actually. There is a purchaser. So people there may be more than one consumer or more than two customers in that case. Purchase behavior is different and evaluation is intense. So brand building takes some time. It builds on your quality, your service, your reputation and many things. Your references who else have used your product? That is very important actually, B2B market. How others have used your product. So in case of brand those things, it is very difficult to build associated business brand and the consumer brand. Like consumer brand you can create association by the way of lot of promotion. Lux has been built as a so for film stars. It is an association. No tangible benefit. Associations are not benefits. They are images, symbols. It is a challenge to create certain such imagery in business markets. In business market you can typically build a brand more with benefits, tangible benefits. Why buy me? Why should a customer buy you? Whether you will buy? So in a way in branding you have to take care of the brand equity of your brand. Whether consumer brand or a business brand you have to manage the brand equity of your products, of brands. So products I mean by generic product without any logo, without any name. Brand I mean any product with a known source. Something is attached and you just think. You go to a roadside grocer and buy one kg of Ata. Do you think that Ata has a brand? Some Ata has a brand but you just buy open, you know, Borica Ata. No. Just think deeply. You go to a known grocer. You know that grocer. At least you have some trust in the grocer that he will give me the right quality Ata. Some branding has been done. There is some brand already exist. May not be with the Ata but from the source. You will not buy the same Ata from a Chhabriwala, you know, who is selling roadside. You may not buy. Can you compare? Same Ata, same quality. Maybe of higher quality actually. You may not buy but you like to buy from a known source. That is what branding does actually. That is what branding happens actually. But it is a very basic level branding. You think of building up. Can you build on? So brand equity is a positive differential effect that a brand name has on its customers. How small it is, how big it is is that you have to manage. Positive differential effect. So with the grocer, with that grocery shop that positive differential effect is there. Some very small but for you you have to build on with your products. And just see what are the key variables which are important. Reputation, service, speed, price, what are they? There is a question yesterday. How do I negotiate without pricing? Who asked question? Pricing should be the last point of negotiation actually. These branding, this exercise, service, quality, branding, value is done just to avoid negotiation of price. It should be the last thing to negotiate on. These things build up the value. Even if your branding, your references are able to get you 1 percent premium over competing supplier, you are successful. Even if you are able to get the order on same price with the competing supplier, you are successful. If you are not able to get the order at same price, it means you have to introspect what that guy has which I do not have. How has he built value? Because he will not get the order without any value it is. He might have added some value that is why your competitor has got the order. Same price or higher price or lower price. Even if he gets the order at lower price, then you have to again introspect. How could he provide the product at lower price? Lower price, yeah. Assume that he is an established house. Okay. Not so established. With a 50-60 number, he is running a decent job with his established setup. He is actually competing. Assume that it is like his operational efficiency and then he supports that he can provide. Right. As a startup, you cannot, you cannot, you know, it is all manual effort. You do not have automated systems to support such kind of thing. How do you convince customers saying that, see, you cannot build a complete system and then start going to market because you do not know. Right, right, right. So you would come out with a 50% module, start selling it and then complete the other 50%. So assume that you are competing with an established house in that case. He would say that I have all the setup and then he would probably get at the same price or probably at a premium than you. Right. So that is a case that he generally face in the market today. Just sit and do analysis. What are the values associated? How has he, what is the customer, how the buyer is, why the buyer is paying premium on what grounds? What are the key features? How he has added value? Established. Just see, just give numbers actually. How much premium he will give on established systems? How much premium he will give on his setup? How much premium he will give on X, Y, Z? For example, you give him a 5 years guarantee. Do you think that value proposition can shift? I do not know. What is a 2 years guarantee? Somewhere you have to increase value. Understanding that how he has, you cannot compete on same ground with him. So you have to shift the ground. Is there any easy way to figure out what are the parameters on which a customer gives value to a product or a service? That is market research. You have to talk to customer. You have to understand from the market. Now just see, this is a brand equity, brand, this is a model of brand equity. There are brand benefits, associations, stories, image, culture which build the brand equity which provide value to a customer by enhancing his confidence and satisfaction. And it provides value to the firm by enhancing the efficiency, competitive advantage, price, extension, leverages, etc. So a brand helps you in getting more value, more price from the customer. Having some premium over the others. Or order at the same price. That is also a premium, you know, for a startup. This is a slide which probably you can think of. This is a slide which you say can pinpoint to certain a checklist for how you differentiate yourself from competitors. You can differentiate yourself on product form, product features, performance, conformance and durability. This is a checklist. Some products which can be tangibly evaluated by the customer, the fight on this ground. If you are not able to compete with these and you think your competitor, product form, feature, conformance, performance is superior, then you shift ground to the services. Ordering is delivery, installation, training, consulting. What is the USP of Pizza Hut versus Domino's? What is the USP of Domino's versus Pizza Hut and other pizzas? Do you think it is product form, product feature, performance, quality, taste? No. The ordering is in delivery, that is all. Because they are not able to compete at product level actually. It is too easy to give a quality product actually. There is no some rocket technology science which you need to make a good pizza actually. So they do not claim on those grounds. With this compete on services, ordering is in delivery, installation, very important case of business products, capital products, customer training, customer consulting. Customer consulting is very important. For example, can you supply, if you have to supply a software to a customer, can you install it, can you train their people in using that, compared to the competitors? Can you give onsite support for some more time than competitors? These things add value and confidence. If product is same, you are not able to compete on product. See what important variable of service your customer places value on. What is the variable? Maybe I have seen actually, I have worked in B2B situation for at least 5 years and I have seen these things working. There was a order for compact fluorescent lamps. You know how many supplies are there in the market? Any idea of how many supplies are there? More than 50, more than around 50 supplies. Maybe 10 to 15 unbranded or very small brands from China and South Korea and Bangladesh and there are around 15, 20 known branded supplies. There was an order with a real estate company. They wanted to install CFL lamps in the building, whole building and they required thousands, right? Every company went to them for the order. Small scale suppliers also went. We had small scale people also manufacture and send and large brands like Philips, Crompton, Wipro also went there. Who won the order was a small scale supplier. Why? There was not much differential in price. There was no differential in warranty terms either. There was no differential in service, another thing. There was only one differential. Everybody was giving 2 years warranty. The small scale manufacturer said, I am supplying you 2000 CFL lamps. The normal failure rate is 2%. So at maximum you may need the replacement for around 50 lamps. So I will do one thing. So anyway I am giving you guarantee for 2 years. But thing is, every time you have to come to me with a faulted lamp and I have to replace it, you keep these 100 lamps with you and whenever there is a, I will visit you every 6 months and take back the faulty lamps. Other companies did not offer this term. Now he went beyond existing norms of the industry. He might, he might, he will not be losing actually. He might break even also in that sense. But he got the order. There are many such cases actually, success stories actually. Some things you have to see. When you get, you know, personal with a customer on each thing you come to know his purchase, process, purchase behavior on what feature he, what feature he thinks is important. So he might always talk to you, boss, price, reduce, curve, boss, price. But you have to get these things out, you know. What beyond price. You have to see what cues he gives you beyond. You say, no, no, my price is okay. No, no, he is giving more discount and his quality is better. You know, he will always try to say, but you have to see how you can convince him other than price. If, say, you are not able to convince on services and products. There is another personal, your salesperson is a face of your company. Many times I have seen a good competent salesperson getting order compared to any other company sales, courtesy, credibility, reliability, responsiveness. They are very important, you know. He says, I will supply you 4 to 6 weeks and you do not supply. The credibility factor, the reliability. So a good salesperson can also make difference. A good competent salesperson can make difference. Suppose all three are equal for everybody. Channel can help. A good distributor can help you in selling more. Good retailer. The coverage. You have covered more channels. Expertise. How export your retailer, your distributor. Can he convince customers. So he is choosing good right retailer, right distributor who sells your product. Who can even promote your product. His job is not only to sell, his job is to promote also. You see, in the last case, there were many detail about western trading company. Was a competent retailer. And this happens across industries. What, as a small business, your job is to identify good dealer. I am just saying, you know, who not only sells your product, but also promotes your products. We just have to see that. Meet people. Understand their needs. Understand their reputation in the market. And then make decisions. It is not easy to sell to a reputed retailer. He will not buy you easily. But if you are able to make that sale happen, your next task is much easier actually. So you can go from milestone to milestone this. Step by step. So a good agent, good dealer can help you sell your products if you are not able to sell. You know, Mr. Basu was a good manufacturing person. He was not a good marketer. He could have, you know, a distant thought. He could have recruited a good marketing manager. I am just saying, or sales person who is more experienced than him in selling. We have different functions. You know, you are good at producing things. I may not be good at selling things. If somebody says, how do I communicate with consumers? What should I ask? They are good salesmen who can easily judge how the customer is going to react. What is in his mind? Just think of salesmen. Have you experienced, good experience salesmen? You are, when you visit as a consumer in retail outlets, you might have experienced. They are very good salespeople. You can experience them in big bazaar or any other retail outlet who just sense your need that what you are going up to, what you are looking for. This is a specialized area, you know, understanding your customer, customer needs and why not recruit that? Some investment, but it will give you some dividends also. So, channel, if you are not able to start, you think it is not your strength. Why not collaborate with a third party for selling your products? Where is the problem? See, Gillette, when came to India, you know, Gillette, such a big brand, they never established their distribution network. They tied up with Hindustan Leavers, Lipton. That was Lipton, was a different division of Hindustan Leavers. Now, it is merged. And asked them to distribute the product, such a big brand, you know. They took few years before they set up their own distribution network. They did not attempt that actually, at the first go. Such a big brand with such a financial muscle. They did not attempt. And many companies do like this. Do you think Nokia phones, they have a distribution network? No, sorry, HCL is doing that. Why? Do you think they had a financial problem? No. They think that probably they are not that strong and they must focus on something else. Making quality phones, having a good marketing research department and doing that. Focus on something else. And then, now they are taking over HCL's job. They have recruited area managers. They became experienced in the Indian market and now they are setting up their own sales network. Such big companies can do. So we can also think of some third party arrangements for selling our product. Maybe visually for some time. Why not? You might lose something, but at the same time you might, your brand might gain in the market. Might be acceptable in the market. Okay, channel. And the last is image. Which probably more of a consumer goods company domain. They create images. Like you saw, by the way of advertisement you saw yesterday. And you see Delhi, you know. Everywhere you go, even in local teams in Mumbai, they have TV's and you can watch the advertisements while traveling. Symbols, media, atmosphere, events. And this you can also do. So this is a good sheet actually. Good to what helps where. If this doesn't help, this can. If this doesn't, this, this, this, this. Something will work. I am very sure about. Some, these things add value. So you have to find out what adds value. Some purchasers are crazy about features. They keep on comparing feature one to feature two to feature three. If you don't have a feature, what will you do? Shift the ground. You are asking what will you do with features? You need only this much? Why don't you look for this? You have to shift the ground to the ground which suits you. And your strengths. You might be successful in some attempt, you may not be. But there is no other way. But negotiating on price should be the last thing actually. Don't talk price. Just talk other things. Try to build up your brand in his eyes. You may be successful in some attempt, you may be failure in some attempt. I am not saying you will be successful 100%. But that may be because of your buyer's mindsets. He might have some other mindsets which you might influence to some extent which you may not. But you should, price should be the last thing you should talk. Try to build brand on other things. Just find out what is important for him. So as you keep on meeting more and more customers, understand them. You will become expert in judging these customers faster and you can serve them better. There is no other simple way actually. There is some references actually which you can read books on. Differentiate or die by Jack Trout. It's a very good book. Managing brand equity. Positioning the better of your mind. The better of minds. These are good books you know. You can read while traveling and anytime. Very helpful. Easy to read. There is a book on marketing management for Kotler. There are separate chapter on consumer behavior. There are separate chapter on business, buying business behavior of organizations. Just go through them. It's very easy to read. You can easily read and understand.