 This week in science is here for our weekly podcast broadcast. Are you ready to go mr. Safety glasses? Can never be too safe Fantastic, I would like everyone to be safe about how they approach this show and so know that this is a live show It has not been edited at any point in time until it is let edited and then becomes a podcast So if you want the edited version you should have subscribed to the podcast But right now we're gonna talk about science. We're gonna do the show in its entirety. You're here. Thank you for being here. So Yeah Wednesdays 8 p.m. Pacific time everybody YouTube twitch and Facebook We ready? Oh, and don't forget the second show which is 5 a.m. Central European time on Thursday Justin is 5 p.m. Thursday a.m. 5 a.m. European time general So many so many time zones Okay, one of these years we have to have a conversation with somebody about why why do we have to have all the time zones? Oh, I can tell you right now because of plate tectonics and planet being around Oh Spiritually makes absolute Sense time is a construct everyone don't fall into it Don't fall out of time either Oh, that gets very dangerous All right levels levels good everybody you like how you what you hear we're all happy happy happy ping across the meridian Yes, snago. We are live. Yay identity four. We're doing this show thing. We are Everybody yes put Justin in low earth orbit. That would be Perfect All right. All right, we're gonna start this show now. Thank you everyone for joining us and it is go time launching in three two one This is twist This week in science episode number 967 recorded on wednesday april 20 no april 17th 2024 Put more science in video games We'll get the gamers play in the game. I'm dr. Kiki and tonight on the show We will fill your heads with black holes bright bursts and space boulders watch out, but first Disclamer disclaimer disclaimer science That thing that some people do and everyone else benefits from science There's a method of capturing and organizing knowledge gained through observation and experimentation Its results are testable repeatable measurable and predictive It starts with a question an idea that scratches at some past observation some previously captured knowledge and asks why how How often The hypothesis is formed. Maybe this interaction is involved. Maybe that gene. Maybe it only happens under this condition An experiment is then designed limiting the interaction deleting the gene perhaps moving a suspected cause Observations are made data is collected unbiased Analysis is applied all to prove the hypothesis wrong or capture some new knowledge The process repeats over and over again advancing our understanding of Everything and iterations one study at a time All so that we may enjoy This week in science Coming up next Got the kind of mine that can't get enough. I want to learn everything every day of the week There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek I want to know And a good science to you too Justin And everyone else out there welcome to another episode of this weekend science We're so ha so glad to have you here tonight today morning wherever and whenever you are I'm going to do a quick little check check on the audio right now because while you were doing the intro I switched it to automatic Mike Adjustment through stream yard. So if you can do a little like hey, oh, hey, oh, and if everyone can be like, yeah, that's great It's fine. Or if I need to just get rid of that and let it be Let me know. Hey, oh, hey, oh everybody Uh, mic check mic check one two three Do I need to turn it back to where it was before or do I leave it as this Is happy go back to where it was Audio sounds good says john hogan schnago is typing. He has many typings with his fingers. It has happened Oh, Justin could be louder. I don't know that's when has anyone said that? I've never heard before. Thank you father Yeah, never trust auto levels. I agree. Okay. Yeah, okay editing mic settings. Thank you, rachel No automatic adjusting of the mic volume. Say hello, Justin Hello, Justin Yes Hello, Justin Yeah, if I'm not coming across as loud, it's time to get your ears checked. There we go. Okay. I'm a happy person now There we go. Happy happy happy Look at that. I don't know what that little piece of cowlick is doing. When have you been hanging out with the danish cows? Okay, not that many of them. They're hard to find There's so much good at cheese coming from there though. I don't understand Did I just say that I did okay. It's time for science everybody. Let's get into this show Coming back from that little technical break that hopefully will be added out We have a great show ahead and we are so glad that you are joining us tonight On this week's show. I have all sorts of science news. I have stories about aggressive bonobos. What? What kind of aggressive? I don't know bacterial vampires They went to suck your blood space boulders Supernova questions because you always have questions about supernovas evolution and video games What do you have, Justin? Yeah, I've got a little of that uh in the mix too. I've got uh black holes That have a black hole that has maybe answered a supernova question Fantastic, okay I got a little bit of human evolution and the importance of wood In the ancient world, you know, you got the stone age and you jump right over and you get into the iron age Is someone nobody ever talks about the wood age because the wood age is the stuff that was it didn't stick around Yeah, we don't have a lot of good example of fossilized, right? It's like, uh, that's all this stuff there It's like was it a stick or was it a tool? How do you tell the difference? So let's get into those questions. Yeah, is that what we will look into? Questions like these and more On the five o'clock news. No right now. We're gonna start the show right now Okay Everyone if you're interested in following the show on a regular basis Make sure that you catch us live on fates facebook youtube and twitch 8 p.m. Pacific time on wednesdays And is 5 a.m. On central european time for those of you who are in the central europe That is the time that it is over there And that's thursday morning. Now wednesday night is different. Um, we also have a podcast You can find us all places that podcasts are found not all of them But a lot of them like the big ones unfortunately not google podcasts anymore because that's not a thing But i guess on youtube so that's there now uh Just look for this week in science I mean honestly wherever you go just look for this week in science if we're there you will find us Twists No, but uh, they have some people don't subscribe they just are here So I want them to subscribe so they can get us and then the notifications And then they can get their friends to subscribe This is the reminder it's time share because we share the science. Yes Yeah Yeah, okay, let's jump right in To start this show off we're gonna get out there With a big bright burst the last couple of weeks there has been some news on the Science the research looking into the brightest gamma ray burst ever recorded grb 22 1009 a Was recorded in october 2022 and it has been dubbed by researchers because this researchers love acronyms And playing off of pop culture. Sorry everybody. There are people too It's been dubbed the boat instead of the goat. It's the boat brightest of all time And according to one of the researchers this is like a one in 10 000 year kind of Gamma ray burst brightness. It was like somebody took a spotlight and like With the theater lights and they like tightened it down and tightened it And they shined it right at our planet and it was like And we were like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. We've never seen anything like it and researchers were All over themselves trying to figure out What caused it? Was it a regular supernova? Was it a different kind of supernova? Like what was it something that is unusual? And so the researchers are like, okay Now we got to look at it, but we can't look at it Because it takes a long time for all of the light and the energy From that big supernova to get out of the way so we can actually start to look at the leftover remnants of The giant explosion It's like when there's all the smoke around the wreckage of a race car And you can't actually get to see what the race car actually looks like or if the person inside of it is okay until The wind blows the smoke. Secret knowledge Kiki's a big NASCAR fan Totally. She's a big NASCAR reference You can count on me to bring in NASCAR Sideline I really really did love Whatever that movie was Porsche versus What was it? It was really good. It was Christian Bale and Matt Damon really good liked it Anyway car movie really enjoyable That's the one Ford Ferrari Ford versus Ferrari. Thank you Really enjoyed it They drove cars. They were fast. There were crashes this thing. It's okay um, okay, so when We don't have a crash It's but it's just an explosion, right? You have the collapse of a star and then the resulting Expulsion of all the material that is left over from that collapse of a star This is supernova And we don't often get to look at them taking place But we have this hypothesis that's been driving a lot of our ideas about the formation of The universe and the the heavier Elements within it, which is that supernovas Are those events That allow elements to come together in a neutron In a way that produces enough neutrons that they are smushed together And end up having to create other elements and the protons and like things get smushed together And so you can get heavier elements than iron So you've got hydrogen helium and you know up until about iron, but then past iron it gets very very Sparse and it has to be certain events that take place at high enough energies To create the pressure to create the number of particles that would be In the within the probability realm of getting smushed together to allow for Heavier elements to actually be formed So they went oh my gosh Biggest gamma ray burst ever seen so we are going to take the james webspace telescope because it's 2002 and the james webspace telescope is it's going to be useful and we're going to take advantage of it and We're going to look at this but not right away because it's still really bright It's like looking at somebody shining a flashlight or headlights in your eyes. And so they had to wait six months until they could actually start Picking out the light signatures that are indicative of different elements And so that is something that is you know, we've talked about it before on the show the way that astronomers astrophysicists and others look at stars We can see different light signatures and the light signatures tell us a story about the composition of those stars or in this case the supernova event and they were expecting to see all sorts of heavy elements because Biggest gamma ray burst of all time. Oh my gosh. It had to be an extra special big supernova something bigger But apparently it wasn't They got all of the same signatures that come along with a completely normal normal supernova Except what they think is that this particular star Was spinning it was like a spinning star massive enough to go supernova but It was special in that it was spinning And so there was they think that maybe there was something about the spinning that could have focused the gamma ray Bursts out of either hemis the pole Yeah, we would have been a polar Yeah orientation to it for that. Yeah Yeah, so you have like the the supernova It collapses in And then it goes out But you also have the bursts of energy that kind of come out along the central lines north south pole of the magnetic fields that are produced, which is usually a very polar Event and so we just were in the line of fire for that particular burst And so it the brightness of it. They think may have been very Specialized because of the whirling rotating of the star before it went supernova But they don't know for sure It could also be that the area of space where this Star went supernova. It's very what's been doing lots of star birthing And you know doing lots of stuff and a lot of the stars that they're seeing currently are not Heavy element stars. So there's not a lot of the stuff around there That could possibly like Push things over the edge for heavy element Production but again, this is a question This this big question is where does platinum come from? Where does gold come from? I mean the only time we've seen a big thing occur That would have led to this kind of uh, heavy element production was when the LIGO the Inferometer The LIGO Virgo array they saw two neutron stars Merge and so it was in that merging of neutron stars, which is a lot of density and a lot of matter um, it was a big event that led to the signatures for heavy particles, but Nothing else. They'd so they're like this is a big question. They're like, whoo brightest of all time except okay Now we have lots of questions because things didn't work out the way that we thought that they would which I think is the coolest Yeah that's pretty well, so Uh, I'm gonna go ahead and just jump into the next story because yeah, go right ahead. It might try to answer some of those questions Maybe Yeah, this is uh, this is astronomers. Uh have discovered the milky way's largest stellar mass black hole This is published uh this earlier this week in the journal astronomy and astrophysics I believe this is a european space agency arrays of Large array large telescope arrays that have been we're looking up in space and this is the gaya project also That's out there looking for these things. They found something kind of weird And in drilling down on what that was that was so strange about a star That didn't seem to be behaving correctly They discovered The largest stellar mass black hole we have ever found in the milky way It is also the second closest black hole to our solar system a mere 2000 light years away The black hole is called gaya bh3 It weighs in at 33 solar masses Which is uh if i'm doing my math right 33 times the size of our sun Really? Yeah, you're right Which is pretty pretty good for a collapsed star Because you know, this is gone supernova. It's ejected a bunch of energy It spent a whole lot of time burning out as a star. So You know, I guess that would mean that in its lifetime. It was probably more than 33 solar masses That would be the guess I would make Uh, though a black hole can grow to be much larger depending on how they are fed As a black hole Sagittarius a This is the supermassive black hole at the center of our milky way galaxy is well over four million solar masses So it's the center of the galaxy and it's been eating The entire time I think our galaxy has existed. It's the thing our galaxy's spinning around four million plus stars condensed into a black hole So the discovery of this bh3 black hole was made possible by a wayward star an old star with a bit too much of a wandering wobble to it So it showed up in the data as sort of an anomaly As they were trying to map the stars Taking a closer look it was revealed that it was in fact Orbiting a black hole Now the super interesting part is that uh, 33 solar masses It's big for a collapsed star Thing is one we've seen in The milky way so far But we've only spotted them in this range before in other galaxies One of the theories about how they are formed is due to the star's makeup With metal rich stars tending to actually lose a lot of mass during the lifetime. They sort of They eject more energy and when they go supernova, they also expend a lot of Of energy and particles and they get smaller so metal poor stars And to lose a lot less mass during their lifetime Which may allow them to become larger black holes So the companion star Uh, which could have been a binary star partner to the the the star that formed the black hole May have they may have already been in orbit around each other and then one Could have even been leaching off of the other to some degree But one of them got too big too old and collapsed If this is a binary star Binary stars often have Very similar compositions to each other. They formed out of the same space dust Their makeup tends to be the same either metal rich or metal poor They tend to be the same so They took a look at the star by the light signature and they found It is metal poor in content as predicted based on what the The black hole composition would have been to have formed such a large the supermassive black hole so It's kind of interesting because it kind of ties into which The story we were talking about there a moment ago Totally which is part of why I put I put it at the top together We get spacey if these metal poor stars Are allowed to maintain so much mass That might explain the larger supernova, you know with the large Amber burst that we were it would sort of seem to be fitting for that Depending on how many solar masses. I think the smallest black hole warming Solar masses is eight to ten somewhere in that range. That's like the the low end scale So this is like yeah when they go supernova like that it's usually this is Can form a neutron star or a black hole after but Yeah, yeah, our sun our sun won't are for little Depends on the mass Yeah, you gotta be a certain mass to collapse on yourself And I think it's fascinating that it's like the type the metal type or you know, what other type of You know of star that yeah, I guess the predominant Yeah, the predominant composition of the star could influence How the mass works and how the supernova Goes forward. Yeah, the heavier elements a huge question. Yeah Tend to eject more so they're in a way less likely to form A black hole So it's going to be the metal poor ones so they have uh that uh the higher But how do you get the metal? How do you get the metal to make the metal? From supernova, right To tological kind of Of smaller of smaller stars, I suppose I guess yeah, but then yeah, the whole thing has to come full circle and at some point you have to have something big enough To create the heavier metals to get to the point where you can like have an area of space that has a lot of heavy metals And it can't all be neutron star mergers And if it's not coming from the supernovas even one with a bright gamma ray burst Where is it coming from because we've all it's always been like oh, where are they they're gonna come from these supernovas of the big stars That So we can't look at gamma ray bursts as a necessary indicator of how massive A star is before it goes supernova, but yeah, there's different types all sorts of stuff Huh I love this story too though. It's like this is the the previous story. I talked about was taking place in uh near sagita About two point some odd million miles away. So it's very very far away From earth 2.4 billion light years away not miles where space were spacefarers now Deeper 4 billion light years near billion light years The gamma ray burst came from far away far in the galaxy far far away But the one you're talking about which is the 33 solar mass black hole is within the milky way galaxy 2000 light years. It's the second closest black hole, but it's not Sagittarius a which is 400 It's that there's one black hole that's closer to us, but it's much much smaller Yeah, uh, I think it's eight to ten somewhere in those ranges. It's one of the smaller end This is the largest one we found and and this is I have distinctions like uh Sagittarius a is super massive black hole like that's a whole category Uh, and then a stellar mass is one that's like, yeah, it's it's just a collapsed star that formed a black hole. It's not a Yeah, uh a star eater itself yet or a Shoot a uh galaxy eater Galaxy eater. Yeah, you know, they get they get pretty big like the scale of just in case nobody is Already looked into this the scale of the universe is amazingly big mind boggling like So much bigger really large things are running around out there. I think even when you say mind bogging ling ling Lee it is Still understating The scale upon which we are operating in a solar system Is like it's a teeny tiny little solar system with a itty bitty little star Like there's a lot of big monsters out there So the thing that this yeah, that's wild about this. Okay, so but now it's the closest one Or second closest one of these and it's and it's bigger than any that we've found in our entire Milky Way before for the stellar mass and yet we didn't observe it We couldn't observe it It took it took its old its old companion star Having a getting caught having a strange motion Of course to even look uh deeper to investigate so these These black holes could be everyone It could be all over the place. Yeah, I mean, that's partially like one of the interesting aspects of the gravitational wave research is that when they are able to really hear that Universal ocean right the the the waves and the ripples that are created by Small black hole mergers medium-sized black hole mergers big black hole mergers neutron star mergers all the things merging and creating a cacophony and What are all the What are all the sounds that can inform us about? Where things are how many of them since they're merging at this kind of a rate that we can see What does that mean for how many of them there are there might be and where they might be More or less, you know certain areas that might have more of them or fewer of them but Yeah, this guy project by way this uh discovery comes from isn't actually meant to Release its findings for like another year. Yeah, so we'll be back in this again. Yeah This one item. They're like, oh, we're gonna mention this now. This is too cool This is super cool. And there's so many people involved on it. I love this uh pre print pdf that they've got available For the astronomy and astrophysics physics Spanish script that's going out right now Or that is out as a letter to the editor. It's just this list of names of people Who were part of this work? Yeah, science is a collaboration. It's very very rare Yeah I mean a lot like there's there's aspects of the the lone scientist in the lab working to find the answer to a thing which is May take place From time to time But even then there's a list even longer than that of their predecessors who's worked there. They're building off of But yeah, it's a very technical field this this They need people to go onto a mountain in Chile and They have all night looking at the Yeah, no not doing that anymore Maybe other places digs people all over the world now collaborating Oh, it really really does this data and in space now apparently too not just robots and telescopes people in space Um, okay new study. Let's go to people Not space. We're going to the spaces in people and the history of our evolution and really not just people all of Everything since bilaterally symmetric organisms evolved Okay, so let's go back back back back back back in time to A time Yes, so no, so not a starfish or tube worms or CQ cumbers those are that are radially symmetric We're going to talk we're talking about bilaterally symmetric organisms They can be split but down the middle we have a top a bottom A front and a back, right? We are as vertebrates our vertebrae our spinal cord Or the notochord in uh, some organisms allows that bilateral distinction It's a huge adaptation that changed the body plan for life on earth. No more sponges. We're gonna have Things with legs We're gonna have things that might have wings We're gonna have things that are gonna crawl. We're gonna do do we're gonna do it differently and so complex life Needed that to happen. So if you go back in time 700 million years ago um It was a weirdo and that weirdo is the last common ancestor that all of the insects And vertebrates on the planet share in common that organism had a lot of genes that have been conserved Throughout evolution in all of these different organisms, but somehow along the way Mother nature and the genes were like, no, we're going to uh play. We're going to do Manipulations, we're gonna do different stuff. What are we gonna do and how we're gonna do it? And so these researchers that just published their study in Nature ecology and evolution that's evolution of tissue specific expression of ancestral genes across vertebrates and insects They looked at a data set that Covers the trans transcriptome So not just the genome, but the transcript which are the Instructions copied from the genome that basically go into action To make things work within cells and different tissues in the body This data set covered eight different tissue types across 20 Bilaterally symmetric or what they call bilaterian species I don't know. Maybe that's what I'm gonna I don't know what uh What do you claim? Ah bilaterian. Yes That's what I am. I'm a bilaterian from this point forward. Well, I've been for a long time But anyway, they did a phylogeny Analysis trying to figure out what changed Along the path of like all these different organisms branching out and doing things differently to become different species from that first weirdo 700 million years ago And they found at one point in time It's like the whole genome was like, um, we're just going to copy and double And it was after that doubling of the genome That the cells within different tissues were like, oh, I've got one good copy And then I've got a copy I can play with And so different tissue types Took the the second copy of the original genome And we're like, no Oh, we're gonna put a mutation here. We're gonna put a mutation here So even though all bilaterally symmetric organisms going back to that first weirdo Have all sorts of conserved genes things that are really really common things that make us have Bilateralism that allow us to have different Uh limbs and our our gut system and also, you know, there's a lot of conserved genes that don't change for the development and for body plan and all these things and that's why we can look at it look into these relatedness kind of Jeans when we study this stuff But what happened to make it different were the copies And so different tissues according to this study their hypothesis now moving forward is that Because of the copying and the doubling of different genetic segments and different chromosomes Different tissues were able to play And when those dish those different tissues were able to play they came up with all the variety of life that Has led to where we are today so I I find to me this is a very exciting and interesting Realization that it's the evolution of tissue specificity that really Came about because of gene duplication and without that we wouldn't have You know any of the any of the special different unique variety of creatures that we have on the planet And it seems like the there's Conservation of the first copy Yeah It's somehow protected from mutation Or is deleterious if it has mutation right where it's okay, and then the other copy then yeah I mean don't rely on so much and so We're free to let our mutant flag fly Yes, we're all mutants Welcome to the mutant planet Thank you for making extra copies. We like it for our variety Yeah, so I might really I appreciate the study and the uh the insights that they came to from the work that they did But let's move forward you would like to talk about hood Well, we're gonna talk about wood, but I'm gonna go ahead and jump into a little bit of evolution as well instead Okay, cool. Let's do that This is I'm trying to kind of get my head around because it talks about human evolution is being weird What else is fine, that's okay But according to this it says competition between species played a major role in the rise and fall of hominence and produced a bizarre evolutionary pattern for the homo lineage according to this New University of Cambridge study That revises the start and end dates for many of our early ancestors Now that this part is I don't know if it's a revision because it doesn't Really give us the when Uh our earliest ancestors began and ended Although it does clarify something that's always sort of been obvious. I think at least to me people studying these things Which is that the start and end dates of human species have been artificial And we we know well now that Even though You go well this form became before this form which came before this form We also find evidence that those uh previous forms survived well into the existence of the other form And we are now much more aware with the further discoveries of the braided stream effect where you have these disparate Evolved the humans who are recombining with older forms and other forms Throughout our evolution that may have also accelerated but it's conventionally There's a climate is held responsible for the emergence and extinction of hominin species. So when there's a a successful hominin That disappears We usually say hey, there must have been a major climate shift That took place that killed them off and most vertebrates. However, according to this inter species competition is known to play an important role. So species competition Leading to the extinction of one species another and I guess it's not We might say that that's even plausible under the human form as the current modern human That seems to fit that mold as we show up there are Somewhere around seven other hominins On the planet seven versions of human different species of human On the planet when we sort of emerge and begin Calling ourselves current modern humans Despite the fact that we had all these other humans around. They're like, well, wait a sec. Aren't we also the current modern humans? And we're like, yeah for now We like to be modern, but you know, maybe we'll be ancient eventually. I don't know Let's try it out. So in a way though, we did outcompete them We followed the model it looks like at the end that most vertebrates follow But throughout the history what this is saying is that With this speciation across five million years of human evolution Competition fostered more speciation and instead of instead of the opposite so interestingly they say they've all only also seen this build this pattern seem in A form of island beetle Somewhere in the glass we that's fast. We're not the only ones. There's also some island beetles somewhere that also seem to be So what so the question is what is special about those island beetles? and what do we share in common in terms of our use of Ecosystems habitats and our ability ability to either collaborate and or compete So is it that these island beetles like The hominins, you know are able to okay We'll go someplace else. We'll go follow the food and do some a different thing this way and you guys stay here That's okay. We'll go do this thing and is that the adaptability that is is that what is makes the difference? So that's a good question and I don't know that it's quite answered here uh yeah I mean that's they couldn't necessarily answer it, but they're coming up with this new view right of looking at it in terms of Hey, look everybody. Let's look at it in this time frame instead of the way that you might have been it's a lot of saying that Some species are thought to evolve through Anagenesis When one slowly turns into another But the lineage doesn't split it. It's sort of like a budding new branch Over and over again This is why several more hominid species than previously assumed were co-existing possibly competing Now one of these things So certainly like okay, they use an example of finches Uh on the Galapagos islands. Yes, so so much good evolution Yeah So when this when when they sort of begin to speciate Uh, they get one gets a larger beak one gets smaller beak They fill certain niches they feed on certain things when a resource niches field competition kicks in And so no new Finches emerge And extinctions take over if you were one of the ones caught in between because you now get out competed I suppose for those niches With the humans The more of us there were the more sort of Speciations seemed to take place Uh and that we coexisted with our old forms. So there's this whole budding aspect of this There's the budding but not necessarily the replacement. And so there would be the coexistence for a very long period of time with enough differences that you know, it probably had to do with places that Commonance went right and the things that they ate or that they Survived on you know and like who you hang out with on this, you know, I like this crew over here, you know, I'm like So certainly tool use Yeah, would be would be a major factor because this is this is something that allows Humans uniquely to adapt to a new climate a new resource a new habitat Uh a new method of feeding ourselves Uh use fire, of course Uh so that we can survive in different climates if we need the heat or to cook something so we don't Make a thing edible So we we can have this sort of budding speciation where we may We may be uh physically adapting to a new environment But we don't need to completely diverge from the from the plan of hominin because we have all these tools that can give us Sharp things to poke with or uh allow us to go out part of the evolution, right? Oh, look at me I've got these new ideas and these yeah, I got a look at me I'm going to part of our evolution, but it also uh in a way That's it, right Because the why aren't there people with claws? Okay. Well, we invented sharp things. So if we are needing to cut Uh, right because of tool use and so this I think this gets it like the next step, right? that where people have like come up with the next step in human evolution, which is like Homo futura or homo techno or you know, like there are like many different names that people have come up with to um define the next stage in human adaptation And evolution and so there is a big question, right where technology if technology In information are the divine the dividing line Is that what's going to be the next step? Is it going to be those that adapt to the The modern technological environment are the ones that are able to continue And and those that are not, you know continue but in a different way Um, is that what is that what makes the difference? Is it going to be the? The homo cyborg right where people You know people start actually, you know putting more technology into their into their selves into their bodies You know, how how is technology actually going to impact if this co-evolution and speciation Continues if we take it to the next extreme. I think that's the next interesting question And so what I think I'm getting at here is is also uh, you're getting from this study is that That technology stunts the need for physical evolution Yes, the extent that when we get the Uh cyborg human of the future who has adapted to the integration of technology With mental brain in chip Things and robotic elbows That's what I think this is what I think the cyborgs will have they do they're just gonna have robotic elbows This is how I picture the future Robotic They would still be able Because they don't need to physically adapt rapidly or even over time To this new scenario because it's an augmented by technology. They would still be able to Interbreed with say a neanderthal Or perhaps even homo erectus Like this is this is also What has accelerated some of this speciation is that even when we have diverged from our earlier hominin ancestors We were surprisingly discovered. We were still able to Reproduce like with what we've seen with the neanderthals neanderthals were also able to reproduce with something very likely homo erectus Uh, we have this this idea usually an evolution that these begin when when these separations take place You know horse and uh donkey can't That can can breed with each other But then their offspring can't so there's usually things that are shutting us down The way With the genetic Necessarily and what have you But because maybe hominins have done this this technology Uh adaptation our physical adaptations I haven't needed to really adjust To anything so even cyborg an interesting question moving. Yeah, how's that going to impact it moving forward? Yeah, it's still technology, right? you're not having to adapt much in the other reproductive aspects and honestly if you look at other things we've talked about that but how is it going to impact stuff? We've looked at uh, also, we've looked at if you look at our technology What is it designed around? It's designed around The existing physical form of humans But that's changing also because of more accessibility stuff and now we've got you know prosthetic advancements, and we've got uh, you know Basically mecha suits that are being developed for people who are paralyzed You know these things are going to change not just uh people who have lost use or have limited use of their physical bodies or you know due to genetic or lifetime traumas, but um at the same time like technology is going to allow individuals to live and reproduce and continue having lives You know beyond the point that historically they wouldn't would have been able to like it that we've been watching that Expand Yeah, but in driving evolution The fact that we are we've designed our keyboard To work with the digits that we already have You know the yeah, we may end up with larger longer thumbs. I think better thumbs that don't lead to carpal tunnel Maybe less carpal tunnel as we adapt. I don't know But we we designed technology around the existing form so that also I think Is what would prevent a a need for a large physical adaptation to our world because we built it around the aesthetic uh Of the of the the current modern heat We'll see how that changes though as we move into space and beyond Hey everyone, this is this is this week in science. I'm dr. Kiki. Yes And we're so glad that you're joining us for our show And we love that you're here and we hope that you Invite other people to join us tell them about this week in science Share twists with others get them to subscribe to the podcast get them to come and watch a live show Wednesday 8 p.m. Pacific time facebook twitch or youtube And then get them to subscribe to those channels and get notifications turned on I mean more people enjoying the show means more to enjoy all the way around for everyone. So Let's come back for a little bit more science conversation with twist I just used to have bumper music in the middle of the show. We did I got rid of it now. I'm just making up little songs That was great Thanks. Yeah, totally good Not bad at all. It's totally fine All right, so I know the people on twitch especially but all of many of our viewers our listeners our gamers Do you play video games? Justin? Uh, I have been known to to play game to the point where You got sore thumbs and carpal tunnel I'm gonna I'll do a little shout out to a show that is currently an amazon prime There was a series called fallout that Yeah, just released. I was played it was a video game And I played a lot of and I've even gone into line of work now where I'm basically a vault dweller It's basically you go into the Going to this vault and you work there for long hours and then you come back out and you're like, oh The real world is not as organized and it's more chaotic than the alt world But fallout is it was a game There's probably the the game I played the most and liked the most out of all the the video games that have Existed there are so many great ones. So and they made a game or they made a show out of it Yeah, it's fantastic. I think there are a few that have become Shows which is pretty cool. I love it. Um, but in those games nobody's really played with adding a mini mini game that could be used for science So we reported back back back almost 20 years ago now On uh Fold it when fold it first emerged it gamified it started to turn science and solving puzzles of the the form of DNA and proteins It's it turned it into a game right it turned it into a puzzle solving game And so that was a separate thing great success, but it was limited in the number of people that Found it downloaded it or put it on their computers and you know accessed it and through the years there have been improvements in the way that scientists have developed these kind of gamified citizen science efforts and The galaxy zoo is a really really good example of one that worked really well where we go and but it was it's its own thing Right you'd have to go to galaxy zoo to like match galaxies and types of galaxies for that wonderful pattern recognition and puzzle solving aspect These researchers who have just published their study in nature biotechnology have advanced science by Using the power of 4.5 million gamers around the world They integrated a game a mini game into Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 is a really popular multiplayer The role-playing game Again, it's you know a lot of stuff going on in the game itself But you get to a certain point in the game and the researchers worked with the developers of borderlands And got them to integrate this mini game into one of the levels of borderlands So like people who got to a level they have a choice. They could do this little mini game and in the mini game What they were asked to do is basically solve a puzzle and the puzzle was to Stack blocks in a particular way. It's like oh these blocks aren't Stacked appropriately so you have to move them. It's kind of like tetris a little bit but a little more complicated and so the they Put out over a million mini games different games within the big game That they expected that their goal was to have them played with a mean to a mean number of about 45 times each So a number of different people individuals trying these games The games had a guide that you're going to try and match and then you had to fill in these gaps or remove gaps to achieve the proper formation and the researchers used how people solved the puzzle to to improve Their ability to put a whole bunch of little dna fragments together to be able to do a better assessment of gut microbes So specifically they were looking at a gut microbe That is is very common around the world and uh, I think it's just I think it was a Scrolling down and anyway They're looking uh to see how These microbial communities change in response to lifestyle habits So related to tooth brushing and the diet or whether you drink alcohol and all these different things and so they have seen different proportions of mutations and adaptations within the microbial communities Within these little tiny segments of dna that they have to piece together to create whole genomes for the bacteria And so they're using these the gaming power of these millions of people around the world playing borderlands Which is now this borderlands science um They were able to uh help improve that uh that piecing together and the structuring of the microbial genomes um From gameplay Super cool Yeah So people like were like yeah, I'll play it and the way that they set up their game. I guess in other uh game setups Historically that have worked well. You have like a few super users That are like the top 1 of people who play the game all the time and they're the ones who do the majority of The data analysis or the matching and the puzzle solving And so the majority of people aren't really involved but the way they set up the game for this borderlands science Um, there's there are super users, but at the same time The majority of people their data is still important So even if you play 1 to 2 games and you don't play that many You're still going to be a big influence in Uh the data sets overall Just in the way they set up their analysis, but anyway, um, I think the exciting thing here is You know, not just the methodology for cleaning up their, uh Using people powered pattern recognition to clean up their Their data sets and to do their matching for them better Which it did they have excuse me. They've used ai and in the past to do this and people Actually improved over a ai's performance by a significant amount in this study and that's why again And then they had ai analyzed how the humans did it now ai is better Wait, how long did that take? No 20 minutes is a little bit of time Anyway, it's I think is very exciting. I love I love that they're, uh It's pushing the envelope of how Uh science is integrated into video games and Super exciting We could also go the other direction with this don't go away and go to the science the science will come to you Right, let's go to where the people are Which is what they just did So one of the great things about video games Versus all other forms of media is that it is interactive It requires participation to play the game. You are part of you have to think Your way through a game versus you can be watching a movie or even reading a book And your mind can drift off and just allow a thing to be told to you a thing to be played at you We've talked about this before our education system Is still behind uh video games in terms of Structuring learning, you know A video game has that structure. You start out. It's almost like a tutorial. Here's some easy things Some obvious things Here's how you play the game and you go through and you go, ah, I do this I get that I go this I go do this thing You learn level one. Oh, then level two things are trickier But you can use the things that you learned in level one to figure out how to do level two and then They're progressively Teaching you how to solve the puzzles of the game or how to do it This is a study that's not in our rundown, but What? this is uh This was a project that took place at Ooh the University of Warwick Well, this is the study where it's the games are better for learning of the math. Yeah stuff. Yes Okay, tell me did you bring this one also? No, but I looked at it and so I find it fascinating that you also in the back of your head were like Oh, this is like a close second, but like yeah, this is this is what I had up there Uh Is just it had too much math involved for me to figure out what was really going on So it's happening if the article was a game. I would totally be able to tell you what happened But they they replaced the mathematical structured lectures that they normally present to students for statistics Uh and found That they could increase They doubled the amount of well that didn't they reduced by About a third the amount of people who failed statistics class That makes sense They replaced the lecture the normal lecture with game Based learning For the students and they found yeah At the end of the course the students who had played the games versus the typical way of getting the information Were better at it They found that there was an increase even in the ones who were good at statistics already who You know comparatively in groups who got good grades The overall scores were higher Across plus there were less people that failed because it pushed all scores up in terms of at least being able to Pass the course and understand the content And so I didn't want to make a whole big deal about this Uh I don't have it all out in front of me, but but like One of the things I I think is just amazing at this point in Well people have Taken on gaming and how it's taken over From a lot of media to that now that like media old media is like hey, we we can make a movie out of that Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should be the other way around. You're like, oh, we can make a horrible We've seen the video game based on a movie that was popular. It's marketing. Also the other way Cross marketing, you know how it works But but now they have to now they have to also have like You can't just make a like what I was talking about fallout Right, it's like, uh, they'd better have done a good job because there's a fan base that's going to be Yeah, so mad if they didn't Even get it right But they did they did a great job. They did fantastic. I'm very happy I haven't watched it yet. I will I have yet to dive into the fallout, but I'm sure it'll come There needs to be I think More gaming in education system I agree. Yeah, there's still some thought that the gaming is a frivolous activity Yeah, and it certainly is for the most part, but the games that they do add are still like And like they're very highly Educational and like I watch my son struggle through his, you know, seventh grade math class and he's He's having so many issues and like he's like so he gets mad at the videos and the online little games that that he's like he's just like don't you're He feels insulted He's like, ah, this is wasting my time and he gets frustrated Yet, you know, so he is learning, you know, basic statistics probability in his seventh grade class box plots You know mean average, you know the The deviation from the mean, you know, all these kinds of ideas that come along with statistics they're trying to teach right now these basic ideas in his math class and Then he shows me He's teaching himself how to make a video game and run the unreal engine. He downloaded the epic game Engine unreal and he is making a video game based on a game And he likes a lot and he's like, oh, I'm gonna do this thing and he created His own the other day last yesterday. He's like mommy. Here's my homework What's a sample space and I'm like, oh, well, that's the space of things that you're gonna be sampling, right? So it's like you're spinning a dial, you know, how many times do you spin the dial and what are the results? That's your sample space You know, but he created this thing in the game where he's like, okay, so I want people To be able to create their own galaxies And so they can put an image into my universe that I'm making any image And then this program and he's created this wire thing of like all these commands that make this thing That is going to randomly Generate based on the pixel that it that the scanner is going through in the image that somebody uploads Whether there is light or no light that so it's like a black or white like yes or no It's just changes the image to gray to black or white gray scale And decides whether there's light or no light and then there's a one out of three times It's going to just like make a star or not make a star So it's not going to be just stars are stars are stars everywhere people aren't going to make stars But they'll be able to make galaxies that are like Shapes of images that they upload but it's not completely right, but it kind of refers back to it and like in his modeling He's putting randomization and sampling and doing basic statistics and he understands this already better than his teacher probably does but the class And the way they test it is not going to understand this so Yeah, so i'm like I'm like guy if you could just turn every statistics or math problem Into something related to your video game stuff. You're gonna you're gonna blow everyone out of the water You got it. You got it because he was explaining it to me And he knew what was going on. He understood randomization. He's understood sampling he's understood the probabilities and like how that would fall out and I was just Yeah Boggles my mind Education Who's educating home And so and so so part of the thing is When you use specific examples Do you sometimes limit uh an education so sometimes Using hard math that has randomized things that aren't applied to a specific situation Can become more universal in your thing right In universal thinking being able to like cross over different like the for kai to be able to take The video game statistics and randomization and apply it to dice You know or you know these schools like if that crossover can take place That's where real understanding and and like that real integration of knowledge takes place But if you're being presented with the information In a classroom an old type of classroom setting It can get they have a a lot of difficulty I think In my memory of math and bridging the gap between an abstract and a physical world In a way that a virtual realm like a video game doesn't really have that problem because it creates the whatever Thing that you're applying it to In front of you and you can you can change that endless one of the one of the Seriously you create a real world situation where oh suddenly you have to Add and subtract like money to be able to buy goods in a virtual world or then you have you know To have to figure out Probabilities like what's my chance of winning? You know if I have these powers and this is what I have you know, and this is the you know potential outcome You know, do I want to fight or do I want to flee? You know what decision do you make suddenly you incorporate all this knowledge which is everyday stuff It's part of the decisions that we all make every day It is you know, but it it makes it it Yeah, makes them more real and I think I think what's missing from the video game world Is converting it back into the abstract? They've got you participating they have They have all of this analysis sort of becoming common sense as you do puzzles or run tasks or Based on your odds Choose a path right But it needs to then port to be an education system has to convert it back into that abstract math That you can go ah, I can apply this in other places What what the education system has failed to do is Like if I if Any of my kids came home with a question that had to do with trains. I told them Forget about the trains There's no people like Kids aren't fascinated by the big locomotive anymore. This is this is almost a hundred year old Let's talk about lifts and uber's Let's talk about If you're going to try to put it into that relatable field of your virtual universe All the education system needs to update it and understand what the kids are going to be Applying it to because if you're using trains, they're like Who dug what train what train leaves where and what goes where no But if you talk about you have to catch a plane in Chicago, but you're gonna have a layover and I'm 12 years old. What are you talking about a plane in Chicago? Right so so the So the applied side is where it's really they can they can offer you all the abstract But they can't really give it a whole lot of relevance And you know, so there needs to be a combination Anyway, it sounds like they found some sort of an in between here of a game that was based on this statistical model They could uh connect to the abstract and they found stunning results. So more of it, please Absolutely and uh as a sideline schnago presented us with a neanderthal cyborg with robot elbows over in the discord So if you're supporting us on patreon, you can join that discord at whatever level of support over on patreon Just get in touch with me on patreon if you need that link, but yeah What neanderthal? Cyborg with robot elbows only possible with ai these days Oh my goodness. Um moving on from games. Let's get into the world of Accidentally sending space boulders to hit mars in several thousand years Oh, did we now? Yeah, so the dart mission which was very successful. We ran our spacecraft into an asteroid dynamos And dimorphis well actually the dimorphis where it was uh slammed into Anyway, did it did a miss and dimorphis there's two asteroid system One of them was a little moon and we slammed the dart spacecraft into the moon and it was like Oh, we nudged it and we saw this big plume of dust and rubble and we were like, look at that That's cool And in the back of my mind, I was like, hmm I wonder where that little cloud of dust and rubble is gonna end up and I kind of thought Oh, it's just gonna like swirl back into that little asteroid system is not hit so hard It's gonna escape and they do an escape trajectory and head up going somewhere Anyway, apparently there are some little boulders that have been Shot away from the dimorphis did a miss system Hi, Kai. I love you No, I'm on the air really important. Uh, yeah, stay away from the sink Stay away from the sink. Yeah, I will stay away from the sink. Yeah, I'll explain it more later. We just don't don't touch anything else Don't touch anything Or the fridge Dear lord, okay. This is what I get I will not touch the sink or the fridge Happy thanks, Kai Oh my goodness These are the messages that we get I don't know what's happening upstairs I don't know what's going on. I'm not in charge. Apparently it's dangerous This is what happens when I leave to do twists the upstairs and the sink and the fridge become dangerous. Okay. Um Let's see moving moving on in this story of dimorphis did a miss space boulders researchers decided that it would be a great idea for them to analyze the debris ejecta and See, okay. Where's it going? Is it anything that we need to be concerned about and You know, the of course the question is mostly is it something that we need to worry about for earth? Is that something that we need to be concerned about? um And so that was you know, probably where the analysis really came from but you know, it's also curious like where Where is that plume of ejecta gonna end up? What's happening? What's in there in that plume of ejecta? That apparently had some boulder sized big boulder sized chunks in it um, where did that go and the researchers just published their work and We're able to do some time analysis evolution between earth and mars and Look at like these 3,700 boulders boulders that were generated. It's not just little rubble ejecta boulders um, and we're able to determine this uh, the orbit of ditimus and what was happening with those boulders and how they were moving around the uh different uh, you know The asteroids and where they would eventually end up leaving and going um, and so they Kept looking at things and the the velocity and how many of them there were and eventually they Came to determine that in about 6,000 to 10,000 15,000 years or so Many of those boulders will make their way not to earth but to mars And when they get to mars group see mars doesn't have an atmosphere like earth does and so earth given the same size Uh boulder it would be like And it would be a thing, but it wouldn't be a big thing. It would rubble a fight in our atmosphere Mars doesn't have that And so these boulders are pretty much if they are Solid enough to not like if they're soft Then fine. Maybe they'll rubble a fight and it'll just be like a soft boulder Rubble field on the surface of mars, but um, yeah in some several thousand years we are We tossed boulders at mars with our dart mission And they are going to hit the surface of mars most likely We don't know come very close to mars probably hit the surface of mars could create a 300 meter large impact craters If they do not it's a lot. It's not little 300 meters Free football fields. Yes, this is big Yes Oh, we we did that congratulations humans You did great now Oops the upside Is there's nothing on mars to disrupt Now now but in 6,000 years thousand years from now. Yes, if there's a humanity Yeah, and we have martians That we have sent there Oops. Oh, I forgot about that. We stopped looking at those, you know, that was so many system updates I look like We had to leave the earth because Of one some time period of human decided to burn all the fossil fuels Do we move to mars? There it turns out They were burning all the fossil fuels and heating up our planet. They also decided. Hey, let's just mess around with blowing up some That's crazy And they laughed about it We will be brought up in the historical documents. We're laughing It's us. We're the worst humans of all human time and it was all us Oh pitiful humans free bombing our own mars settlements Exactly We did we are we did it's just Fantastic and ridiculous to me, but it just is Oh my goodness. What have we done? Very very successful to be fair. We did not Who know To be fair, we did not know ahead of time We didn't know anything, but we went ahead and did it. This is so typical Just See what happens I mean, what if one of those had been a bigger boulder and it actually wasn't a trajectory that would impact earth Like we'd be well, I think we knew oh look. We knew we're gonna make it to earth but Thought it was by the way, although although when you're talking about big boulders, you know, most of the shooting stars you see Uh, right. They're they're like a this the Pebble or smaller dust even hitting the atmosphere is enough to make those Streaks that we see tiny little grains of sand and bubbly things Uh, something like a big like a boulder. Well, my goodness That might actually make it in might make it in Tunguska. Here we come. Let's do it again You want to tell me another story from a long time ago Last story I got here is uh, this is the archaeological excavations in germany back in the 90s that found all sorts of wooden poles And they were like, oh those are just you know, there was controversy at the time that these were Initially looked like early uh, human spears, but the dates were all wrong for modern humans to have made them They came in at around 200 and then uh, once they were like, oh, that can't be right They looked harder and it's oh, maybe 300 000 years ago Uh, they could only have been made by neanderthals or Not current modern humans and they said, oh well, then then these these must just be sticks and then they say Well, yeah, they're but they're long and they're sharpened and they built Replicas of them and they found that they were really good weighted distribution for throwing They were really good sticks Yeah, they were in fact spears Bradley designed for hunting and they have also uncovered now and analyzed many many more wooden artifacts from the same site this is uh They used state-of-the-art image state-of-the-art imaging techniques 3d myc microscopy Uh, micro CT scanners and they produced some surprising results researchers were able to determine uh How the wood was worked? This is first author Dr. Dirk letter who is From the what is it the lower Saxony state office of for cultural heritage There is evidence of much more extensive and varied processing of spruce and pinewood than previously thought Selected logs were shaped into spears and throwing sticks and brought to the site While broken tools were repaired and recycled into other things on site at least 20 spears and throwing sticks had been left behind at what was In the past we've been at lakeshore This the extraordinary state of the preservation Or the wood had enabled the researchers for the first time to document and identify these woodworking techniques in detail so What was what was what's really amazing about this is we've talked about this quite a bit before Is all of the missing artifacts That are made of wood we don't see a lot of it And so it's almost as though woodworking couldn't have come along until you know Until metal working until after metal working allowed us to shape and craft Things more precisely Yeah But we're finding more and more evidence that woodworking. There's also the I think it's uh site in maraca Libya or no not maraca camping maraca. It's somewhere. It might be libya Ah Somewhere in northern africa anyway Where they found a submerged structure, which it looks like it was a carved a section of a of a large timber And that was placed over another one as though it was part of some larger wooden structure that had Been created and that thing dated to about 400,000 years So what we're seeing is that of course people were doing woodworking Before making wooden tools. Yeah before we have our stone age iron age Well, not before this our stone our stone age Uh woodworking Well, our stone age is a couple million years old for sure Yeah, wood would have been but wood. We're not going to see the remnants of it. We're so we're probably have no evidence More recent. Yeah. Yeah, this is some of the oldest woodwork Yeah, uh wood crafting evidence that we have ever seen at 300 000 years old All these tools and spears and so they're They're because they're invisible Because wood deteriorates and stone doesn't we see all the stone tools that go back millions of years Axes that we know we're for cutting and and clefting out meat. But what if all this time these stone tools We're actually being used to make wood working tools Right like we wouldn't know because all the wood deteriorates. It doesn't it's very Yeah, very hard to find the old preserved wood These happen to be buried next to a lake bed. What was the lake bed? They They covered in the soil and managed to be preserved This is a a lucky find Uh in the first place Seriously, yeah a lot of our a lot of the situation to even allow for these finds like this is amazing And so it does bring up the possibility That woodworking that a lot of stone tool Manufacturing was made to then do woodworking with and that wasn't just used this little handaxe to clefted animal They had spears which without this find we don't know neanderthals had these big long throwing spears And hunted this way because this also means that they weren't necessarily what we always considered them to be is direct hunters Where they have to come in contact Directly with the animal and as they which they may have done quite a bit but They could throw a spear and hit a thing now. This might have been for fish You know for spear for whatever it was, but this is like a new idea also of neanderthals, right that Okay, they had stone stuff. They did some things. Oh medicine. Maybe oh did social groups. Okay. Yeah, maybe they're oh wow now Oh wow spears Okay, so we're really we're gonna add to that we thought that just people humans Yeah, and so yeah, and and this is also something that we've brought up a bunch of times too about the distribution of hominins not making sense in certain places because Islands because of water because motion Because of how long it would take to swim or even float somewhere It'd be so difficult If we have this kind of fine woodworking ability as in the andrethal 300,000 years ago Then it opens up possibilities for early humans to have been pretty good at woodworking all along and Boat making much more likely not maybe, you know, great boats But better than we think exactly and we just I mean it's a matter of finding them, right How many of them made made it across whatever body of water and then where did they land and Because there's even I mean even before neanderthal this there's a homo erectus In the islands of uh in oceania that For certain don't make sense for any point in climactic change. It doesn't mean that it got Shallow enough to it was never walkable just if there was places where there were humans That were in the ancient world that predate neanderthal That would not have walked there that Have Not have made it basically by swimming Or by walking and we know that wooden tools didn't just appear out of nowhere, right? So with woodworking techniques 300 000 years ago They didn't just get invented and we know neanderthals passed on knowledge We know the homo erectus Preserved knowledge of stone toolmaking that was consistent over millions of years So if they were applying That consistent use of those stone tools To woodworking that means that woodworking would have also been persisting throughout the time We don't have evidence of it, but again we have to Make a big allowance for the bet now of woodworking tools going much further back Because we know of how hard the evidence of that would be to find And this being great evidence when we do find an example of it. It has to then push back The existence quite a while for instance, like we know that when we see any fossil of bone We can't say aha. This is the oldest the oldest fossil that we have of any species We don't say ah, this is when it started. We know we just happen to find a fossil Yes, and so then you have to the thing we find a fossil of probably existed for quite a long time before that Uh Statistically Moment in time. That's all we have snapshots Is to find the first one, right? We found one in the mix somewhere. We'll guess it's in the middle It probably exists Quite a long time before the first example. So when we find the or yeah Vincent fink in youtube is saying what about beavers? They were doing it for millions of years, right? We probably copied what we saw them doing Like yeah, they came in from nature all the time everything around them. Oh, that's a great idea copy adapt paste You have the stone tools that you can use to craft things with for a few million years You just didn't think of it of crafting on the softer thing Nobody ever thought you have the hard thing with the sharp sharp thing you've already got But you didn't use the other of course you did No fool. No, nope Yeah, yeah I mean, we can't jump to assumptions without the Evidence, but I think this is part of the evidence that builds a very very convincing story that these kinds of Tools and abilities were around much much earlier than we have ever given them credit for so Yeah Yeah plot and what I and and The thing I'm most curious about uh, that I can't get out of my head. Okay What did I do to the sink in the refrigerator that you're not allowed to even touch it? I don't know. I haven't gotten upstairs yet. I have no idea. He didn't say like don't look in the kitchen It was very specifically don't touch anything in the kitchen. It's and he said it's dangerous And then he walked away and you were like, okay There's some cycling going on and but you know I don't know What is happening at your house right now that you're not aware of but need to avoid Probably everything I'm gonna sneak upstairs after the show and just I think we need to have the show so you can go and investigate avoid the kitchen entirely go straight to bed Do not pass go Is this what it's come down to it's just like I'm not in charge I don't want to know I or Marshall decided that now was the time to fix up something and Can you just buy them some caution tape? And then they can just I need I do need to just buy a roll of like do not cross caution Yellow tape like yes, I need to do this and then they can tell me where I need to not be Put up the tape. Don't go there mom. Nope. No don't go there Okay, I think I think we should either end the show so that you can go and investigate Or so you can get enough sleep To handle the aftermath of what has been done to your house Absolutely, but I do have two quick stories to finish up the show with Number one we hear the story all the time that bonobos There are peaceful Relatives right, you know so much more peaceful than chimpanzees make love Not be aggressive. Don't do battle It's the female run society. So everything's better, right? Well These researchers were like Okay, we hear the story all the time, but let's really go in and look at what The males are doing Versa in bonobos versus chimpanzees. And so they looked at 14 years worth of data from uh, two different sites one for Bonobos the coca la pora bonobos and then compared that to chimpanzees in Gombe and What they found which is really fascinating is that Yeah, okay, bonobos the ladies are in charge So the women are kind of the ones who Are in Deciding when they're gonna mate who's gonna mate and what's going on and so The males Are always going to be Not aggressive to the females because they want to have their chance, but that doesn't mean there's no infighting between the males themselves And so in this study they showed that compared to chimpanzees When it comes down to total aggressive acts Uh, bonobo males are actually more aggressive to other males than The chimpanzee compatriots So bonobo males when it all comes down to like the Contact aggression the little bumps the nudges get out of here kind of things big fights too But overall bonobo males Are more aggressive than chimpanzees And the thing about it is basically it's because of the difference in the society where chimpanzees It's a male dominated hierarchy And so the chimpanzees the young males have to Cooperate Know your role, but if you're going to build Your ability you have to have friends And so you don't go against the other males because you actually might end up taking down females And so there's actually more male to female aggression in chimpanzees than there is in bonobos And in bonobos, there's more female to male aggression than there is in chimpanzees So like domestic violence And then when it but when it comes down to it the bonobo males They are waiting their Turn to be like they're putting their place by the females, but then amongst themselves They're like, no competition. You're my competition. You're my and they don't they don't Collaborate with they're not nice to each other. They fight more None of us are in charge only one of us is uh leaving with the prize Yeah Yeah Yeah, even there there might be more prize because of you know, oh, let's all be nice to each other No, it's really the females who are like no females are going to be nice to each other males go away Everybody let's calm down males go away um but Yeah, so the whole idea of uh bonobos being more peaceful overall than chimpanzees Not necessarily true and it kind of bears out in the data when you think about why The males and females would be aggressive in different ways based on their social structure. So anyway That's one to put it to flip it back to uh chimpanzees. Yeah uh One of the only known serial killers In the chimpanzee world or famously known Is a female chimpanzee Who is killing the offspring of other? female chimpanzees so Maybe that dynamic also continues In the chimpanzee world with a lot more female to female aggression Yeah, and violence taking place because they're not in charge and they're in competition as well Right, I'd be it might be thinking that works with humans as well More violence. No, no less violence if nobody's in charge If nobody has the power of state, maybe there's more violence This is a very interesting question. So let's talk about the last story, uh, which is Bacterial vampires Yes So Washington state university researchers were like Oh, look at these species of bacteria that colonize our guts And uh, some people have irritable bowel disease and sometimes when Combination of irritable bowel disease and the bacteria combine You suddenly have a situation where there's inflammation and in certain individuals about 10% maybe 20% of those Who are actually have these? bacterial pathogens, uh, they get Bleeds in their guts And there are certain species of those bacteria that are like I like the blood and then they invade the bloodstream Through these little bleeds in the gi system and about 2% of people usually will end up dying because of sepsis Bacterial infections of the blood that they gained because of infections that started in the gut because of bowel disease issues complications, um So these researchers were like, what is it that leads these particular bacteria into the bloodstream to like cause sepsis in the first place? And they found it's that the bacteria really really like a particular amino acid that is present in human blood and they just they're like, uh, I want to just go get that and so, uh, Salmonella enterica, Asheria coli, Citrobacter coserii these bacteria have a chemo receptor that's TSR, a TSR chemo receptor that leads chemotaxis so even with femto level concentrations so like to the negative 15th of like concentrations so zero zero zero zero zero zero all the negative 15th of concentrations of human blood serum in an experimental setup They found these bacteria were like We like that whatever it is that we're going to go after it and so this TSR chemo receptor was a thing that figured it out and the TSR has a conserved amino acid recognition motif within it for L-serine L-serine is a an amino acid It's the one that cats are obligate carnivores for and have to eat from their meat diet to get and so these bacteria also Really, really love L-serine and want to go get it and they are They're not even after the iron. They're not even after the red stuff. It's just the The L-serine the fluid and which the blood is moving. Yes, they're after the stuff that's in it. Yeah and so what they have found is that just even This human serum these bacteria just they want it. They need it They have a chemo receptor for it and so they're going to go after it and that's going to drive them into lesions in the gut and lead to Those septic infections that can end up being serious enough to end life so these blood loving bacteria, it's you know, not just human blood, but it this is a this this factor L-serine is common in muscle tissue blood in lot of mammals meat And the bacteria you want to get it to So it's the I'm guessing they're going off. They're eating the nutrients That your blood and muscles need They're that they're bathed in right? Yes, so they're going in like oh, well, we like this too We're tissue. We we're gonna go ahead and gobble up all the nutrients that you would normally use to feed your blood And basically starve you out So Yeah, so you don't want the bacteria in your bloodstream But knowing why the bacteria are headed into your bloodstream in the first place Is a really great place for scientists to start developing treatments and ways to Push them out push them out push them way out Antibiotic blood Maybe Who knows how can we do it? We'll figure it out. But um, yeah, there are This new phrase which I think is fantastic these researchers in their paper like and we have coined a new phrase This colonization of hemorrhagic lesions and the consumption of serum nutrients as bacterial vampirism So good for you scientists You've you've defined bacterial vampires Now you have to like stake them in the heart like Move them out move them out out Look at me cheerleader for science So I guess the moral of the story is don't bleed I mean if you're bleeding out you could be uh inviting in Don't bleed in your gut. Don't let the bacteria in But can't they get in anywhere? Is it just gut? I mean you're like wouldn't We could get in anywhere, but so this is probably something that uh leads to Infections septic infections that come from lesions in the mouth, but very often these are gut colonizing bacteria. So That's they're just there to begin with and then you add in like ooh a lesion and blood and aerobic anaerobic situation Yes Yeah, exactly You got it. Thank you for coming to that logic in front of everyone We have done the show. I need to find out what's happening with my sink and kitchen. Yeah Yeah Do I dare no i'm gonna sneak upstairs Although I didn't eat dinner and I have to go eat dinner and it's upstairs in the kitchen It was I maybe that's the dangerous thing. Maybe we've done something to the food The fact that you've managed to sit through the rest of this episode without Finding out what the heck just happened I will find out. I know I'll find out. What am I gonna change? I'm just gonna go in I can't go in there And it'd be like I I'm gonna fix everything So, uh mom Don't want you to touch anything in the sink Oh in the refrigerator and actually the floor between the sink and the refrigerator also probably should be off limits Dangerous for how long I'm not saying very dangerous. How dangerous it just just avoid it completely No no interactions. No touching No touching you have safety goggles. I think you should you need to wear them I wish I had cool safety goggles like yours Justin seriously Yours are so fancy. Are those these are uh prescription safety goggles Vault tech issued Safety goggles always be prepared Be prepared for things flying at your eyes for the splatter for all those moments in life for for geeky's kitchen If only I had all tech goggles Thank you everyone for listening to the show tonight We really do hope that you enjoyed what we had to offer in terms of science and discussion Big shout outs to fada for all the help with social media and show notes Especially over the last couple of weeks as things have been in and out with the conference that I was Putting together last week and with the social that social eclipse. No Solar eclipse. That's what happened. Uh, everybody had a lot going on last week identity 4. Thank you so much for recording the show Gord arnlor others. Thank you for making sure that the chat rooms On all the channels are really great places to hang out And rachel really want to say thank you for being a part of editing the show and staying on top of that Even when i'm not on top of things myself So really appreciate all your work and I have to say thank you, of course to our twist patrons So the people who really help make this show happen are those Who support us on patreon? Thank you, too. Alan viola erin anathema arthur kepler craig potts mary curts treasest smith richard richard badge bob coals Kent nor could george corris p.l. Verizarb. I just mumbled that John rataswamy chris wozniak bigard chef stad donathan styles aka don stylo alikoff and reagan shoebrew seraphore for Don mundus p.i.g. Stephen alberon daryl my shack andrew swanson fredes 104 sky Luke paul ronovich kevin reardon noodles jack brian Carrington david a youngblood shon clarence lamb john mckay greg riley marquess flow steve leesman aka zima ken haze howard tan christopher rappin richard brendan minnish johnny gridley ramy daife jibberton latimore flying out christopher drier Howdy, i'm greg briggs john atwood rudi garcia david wilkinson rodney lewis paul rick ramus philip shame cartlerson I'm the mumble mumble mumble mumble craigland and sue duster jason olds david neighbor airknapp Lon makes eo adam mishkan kevin parochan erin luthan bob calder marjorie paul d disney david similarly Patrick pecoraro and tony steele Thank you all For your support on patreon and if you would like to support us if you're not already Head over to twist.org and click on that patreon link choose your level of support And I hope that i'll be reading your name in the future We will be back Yeah, wednesday 8 p.m. Pacific time 5 a.m. Thursday central european time broadcasting live from our twitch and youtube facebook channels But then of course always available later as a podcast Wherever oh, yeah, and you can just look for this week in science wherever podcasts are found If you enjoyed the show get your friends to subscribe too because more fun listening for everyone For more information, I think you heard here today Show notes links to the stories are available on our website www.twist.org And you can also sign up for a newsletter that we promise not to send you I don't promise anything. There may be a surprise We do love your feedback though And if there's a topic that you would like us to cover address or a suggestion for an interview Please let us know on one of our social media accounts or send us an email We do like those but just put twists in the subject line So your email doesn't get spam filtered into the biggest of all time boat gamma ray bursts And we see it but it's too bright and so we wear our solar observing glasses But still we miss it because there's just too much light and Future so bright. I got to wear shades, man And with uh with our shades in place we will look forward into the gamma ray burst And then look forward to discussing the science with you again next week So if you've learned anything from this show remember It's all in your head Nope wrong one. Oopsies swoopsies This week in science This week in science This week in science is the end of the world. So i'm setting up a shop got my banner unfurled It says the scientist is in i'm gonna sell my advice Show them how to stop the robots with a simple device I'll reverse below the warming with a wave of my hand And all this is coming your way So everybody listen to what I say. I use the scientific method this week in science This week in science This week in science science science This week in science this week in science This week in science science science science science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what I say may not represent your vision I'm gonna turn it down It's the after show everyone. Thank you for joining us for another wonderful Wonderful evening of science and dancing with the music and you know dancing Oh, kyle pettit. Hello. Thank you for joining us Vincent fink. Thank you for joining us Yes, and upside down google They I don't know I can't read your name, but um if I could I would say hi Yes, we're at the end of the show, but thank you for joining us. You caught us for the dance time Tight 107 minutes. Yes fata we did expound on things at length and Probably could have been shorter, but we weren't so that is just the way it is and um I don't know. There's definitely edits that will come out of the beginning and now at the end and also in the middle and Oh Pamela hello, of course, it's Pamela Welcome it's so good to see you That's wonderful. Justin has run off to get coffee probably to check on his child. He said he did not have a hard runaway time today, which is wonderful Rod Haglund, thank you for joining. Thank you for being here everyone So wonderful digital nomad. Thanks for joining joining. Who else is there? Eric nap? I hear you're coming to the Portland area Yes, and there was a chi break in the middle of the show and if There is further I mean Rachel as editor she can choose whether to keep the chi break in because it's kind of an odd break Because if she doesn't keep it in later comments about the refrigerator throughout the show Will be odd But maybe she can remove all the comments about the refrigerator throughout the show Might be good Did you get coffee? Did you get coffee? Coffee coffee. I can't hear you. You turn off your microphone There you go Yes, you have a coffee coffee. Take take a coffee Hello Great show. Hello, uh Keep in the chi attack. That's comedy gold. It really was What what did you what are you saying over there? What's happening? Pamela, why is your uh, you're you have a very shy to language. I don't know australian. I don't Yes, yes, Justin Eric, okay, so you're gonna be in portland in this area for the first weekend in may for a stamp collector show Yes Yes Stamp collector show. I have stamps. Maybe I could bring my stamps to the stamp collector show and get people to Take the stamps off my hands You have a stamp collection I do My grandfather was a philatelist I'm so sorry to hear that maybe I don't know It sounds bad, but actually it means a stamp collector It still sounds bad. No, that's what I thought it meant. Yeah. Yeah. No, I knew what it meant. I'm just sorry to hear that Yeah, so somewhere along the way we my brother and I and I think I have my brother stamps too Maybe I'll sell his stamps too. He doesn't want them. He doesn't need them I don't know Anyway, I've got a bunch of stamps They're in a corner and there's old stamps and there's I have a I should there was I should have probably gotten rid of it when queen elisabeth died, but I have like a queen elisabeth stamp and coin collect like thing that was I don't know. I don't know. I don't have to get rid of it before she died. You have to get rid of it before the people who care about her have died Clackamas Shalom Shalom Pamina Pipex that's fantastic Clackamas is not far from where I am Not far at all here in portland Multnomah County I don't have it. I don't have it anything collection The collections I have are mostly because other people Collected them for me and then I added maybe a couple of things to them But mostly was other people collecting them for me So the stamps my grandfather started and made that a thing So I've got a stamp collection that one point in time I had a spoon collection because there was like an old wooden spoon rack and some old spoons Then people were like, oh, we'll add to your old spoons And then I had a bunch of old spoons and had a spoon collection But then I left it at my parents house and one of my brother's friends at one point in time or somebody's Friends at some point in time like came and took the spoons away and stole them and I don't know if it's sold them for math or something Oh god I I occasionally have an old That You send you send them out for recycling Send them out to get recycled. I think that's the closest thing to a collection of things And you Pamela has grandfather stamps and mother's spoons It's amazing that you're able to keep those That's incredible. So it's all these old collections and these old things. What do you do with them? How do you keep them? I don't know I like things like china and stuff, but you can use them Like a collection of china. It's just a set, but you can have a meal with it Right, you can serve food and you can all eat together and enjoy a meal Oh, no, I was I was gonna ask that question, but I didn't want to flood. I'm so sorry. Yeah Ah, yes, uh, Eric Knapp points out. Yes, I do have I guess I do have art collection I do I do have Mostly in storage right now, but I have probably 50 some paintings Can't tell by the fact. Oh, no, I guess I do Uh, don't have uh anything hung up on the on the walls here currently Find a These are this is a very old place that I'm in now that has what I thought was concrete walls But it turns out to be some plaster some A very old plaster plaster lathe Yeah, which when it's like the the little wood pieces and the plaster and it and sometimes you hit and it goes in And the plaster crumbles and other times you hit a nail in and it bounces back at you Yeah, so this is this is the the crumbly version. So I have found that it is You have to kind of treat it like a cement wall like where you anchor things in but then you can create holes So I'm trying to avoid that. So I'm thinking of getting Some adhesive sticky things and seeing if that can last doesn't It's not how I've normally hung anything so it's nothing heavy can really be hung that way but We'll see. This is maybe maybe next week. Uh, maybe next time I will have curtains or something like you could get like, you know, some inexpensive Ikea type Like, you know, make it a theater type like some red velvet curtains behind you or something with a painting behind it Make it fancy But I have uh orange curtains on these This Ceiling to floor windows on this one The next room over They look cool. I could have so I got these big orange curtains And then they even match the show it'd be great as a backdrop Then I noticed this is the south side Window And so when the sun comes up if I haven't gotten the curtains open the entire room is flooded with orange To the point where I'm like if I I can't in that room long enough will I Will my eyes get tired of orange? Will I stop seeing orange after a while? Like, how does that work? So much light exposure, but uh, I've enjoyed that before Yeah, marshall's really into like the hue lighting, which is like these programmable leds So you can set your lighting and everything and I've been in kai's room where it's been all very like magenta colors and then Leaving his room suddenly everything is green like What's happening here the complementary colors pop out in your vision thinks says uh, just I make science art if You down with that for you walls I would love to see that. Is there is there do you have a way of linking that in a chat room? People can kind of see your artwork If youtube will allow a link you have switch you answer I would love to see Some science We love the science art huge I think I've shown before I love this one So this is uh hard to see here in this lighting, but this is actually a king of it Wait duration wait duration uh Two ancient Celtic coins The lady it's I got a lady writing a wolf here, but the wolf is the Norfolk wolf, which is found Britain tomorrow, I think it's Norfolk It comes from but it's a it's an ancient equine Celtic coin Norfolk and then this lady here on top is From my gall coin, which I think predates it my life, but they're both I see it Celtic Celtic images stolen from Celtic coins And then I mashed together totally. Oh my gosh. I found I just found just looking on the internet. It's easy like The Norfolk wolf is like so obvious Looking yeah, I can totally see that. It's totally Yeah, it's the I don't think it can be sure here Celtic Coin lady is that gonna work? No, that didn't work at all Celtic coin lady. Oh there she So there's the horse there she is yep And that's there it is That it's the one over the when all the way on the Would be the left side there this one that one. Yeah And that one she's riding a horse where I was like, yeah, let's put her on the The Atlantic region My general search terms Celtic coin woman horse Yeah And there's a version of that horse That uh, just with just the horse that I want to do one day And it's it's amazing. I love the horse like like It kind of looks like they had a hard time figuring out horse legs some of these it's it's not so bad Some of them, but it's pretty good because and some of the Celtic coins. It's like, ah, we're gonna put some legs down here Or I'm not really sure Yeah, those are pretty cool. Yeah Yeah, I love the three-dimensional aspect And you can see a lot of wheels Yeah in there Ah, there's this okay. So that's a version of the horse. I'm looking at has always has a strange netting thing Back behind it like lots of these little Serpentine horse so it's almost a seahorse for some Maybe yeah The net maybe would be like a fisherman's net or Yeah, the coin was the net design a tinted inverted triangle above the serpentine horse Hmm Interesting the coins of the parisi the region along the center I also did the uh, if you pull up the owl of Athena, I don't have that one here actually I gifted that one But I did one that was based on the owl of Athena. Oh, I love that one. Ah Look at his big eyes Okay I hope that your artwork came through Pamela's flood I mean, there's some environmental things that we have no control over right, but we can appreciate what we have From people what we have in our world in our lives when we have them All of Athena is cool Yeah Greek stuff That's cool That's really cool art My art is different You have quite I can see you've got an art collection going on back But it's nothing that I've made. Yeah, but it's I yeah, it's collection of um Blair art and um Art from other people who created stuff, but yeah That knitted art I have woodblock wood print art indigenous art from here in the pacific northwest There's some fun sculptural stuff here um I think this is Magnus Apollo who is an artist who's over in The east coast midwest area Um, this is my grandfather great great grandfather's pharmacy equipment From Stockton when he had a the Holden drug company in the 1800s There's a bat skeleton is Blair art Blair calendar Blair art Old books again grandfather great great grandfather family stuff Um, but yeah, I think science art and appreciating Things in an artistic way allows us to better Better piece it into our lives Right Yeah Oh, Pamela has a bicycle painting of yours. Oh, yeah Close likeness to the coin that is the uh, the uh What do you call it penny farthing or a high wheeler? The it's also the symbol of Davis, California Oh, that's right. The bike. Yeah Love that one I know. Yeah, this is yeah my great great grandfather. So like three generations back Um, it might even be a great great great grandfather actually like this is Old school stuff It's been around for a long time This is the yeah the um This is the actual scale that was used in the pharmacy When he was a pharmacist So it's got like weights and measures and it's like got things for calibrating and you know setting it and Yeah, there's some really cool. And these are uh microscopes. You know single Little microscopes. Yeah, great great great grandfather. Yeah Except from the central valley california fornia outside of Stockton From when there was when my family when they had a drug company there and they there's a book here elementary photographic chemistry the Holden drug company when they started Actually doing the chemistry involved in In in photographs, right? So for making like for the making photographs Um into pictures Cool stuff. This what this this here this little thing is from 1919 Free delivery Free delivery. It's like amazon Yeah 1919 but yeah, the the company was in yeah Goes back a long ways Yeah, that sounds like uh, that would be great grandfather territory for sure great grandfather it's great great grandfather territory, but This stuff goes back further. So it's like great great great onto, you know, the son the son of the son Everybody doing the sciences I guess we like the long line of sciency people Yeah from a long line of religious people before that which I think is very fascinating Um On the beecher side of the family which is the Holden drug company is a beecher side the beecher side, uh henry beecher Which was is related to harry at beecher stowe But henry beecher henry ward beecher was a baptist preacher And he used to on the east coast have these big revivalist tent kind of sermons and was like like I remember my freshman year in history class American history and the professor started talking about my ancestor Wait, what and he started talking telling stories about my ancestor Having pockets of uncut jewels that he fondled in his pockets while he gave these sermons about like Asterity and having nothing and right after that I went to like a family Reunion and I told this story to my relatives and the old relatives in the family were so mad. They were like So great yeah Yeah, so the baptists they decided to come out to the great west They bought a lot of land Settled a ranch and they're gonna be free to do their thing and then oh, yeah science and pharmacy Oh, look at all this stuff and there's like a long line of really like big thinkers My family which is pretty cool Yeah family lineages and science and science art more science art all the science art I want to support it forever How are you you look like you you're like I got to go take care of a child and my needs and Spouse needs and I haven't eaten dinner and I don't know what's happening. There's no noises in the kitchen anymore So I don't know whether I should be afraid or Fine with that Yeah I would if I were you I would just avoid the kitchen I wanted to eat food. I was very excited about food when I got done with the show and I'm like I don't know Yeah, if even the refrigerator is dangerous, it it might be it might be worth ordering Mm-hmm. Yeah, a little takeout Just go don't go anywhere near the kitchen It'll be there tomorrow or it won't it's late enough now. I could just safety first Mm-hmm Vincent think I think you're right like I was invited in the fall to a symposium related to science and art and a bunch of uh movers and shakers like medium uh museum People who work in the museum area in institutions and other things like really talking about this place where science and art come together and how to How to advance it more As you know, whether it needs like its own institution, whether it needs more funding how to how to support and help grow This interface between science and art so that both can develop In concert helping each other, you know So, yeah, I think It was called the engage symposium engage He's double checking. Yes going to the hive mind of the internet No, that's not right That's african yet. No not engage. That's not right Correction that wrong correction. It was not engage. It was something else Embodied no not embody. That's show decay over in baltimore the embody festival and stuff he does like really cool stuff with art and music and Science art E in And I'll figure it out Was it it wasn't engage How to engage artists and science blah blah blah. Why can't I remember it? I'd have to like open a whole new email account to get into it to be able to find it I'll figure it out I'm going to it right now searching my email Art Wait, there's a lot of stuff. Here it is. Oh wait. Yes Lot of stuff For what? Lot of stuff in Denmark. Uh, my google search gave me all sorts of danishy stuff. Mm-hmm. There's a ton actually Yeah, and I met some people Mm-hmm But some people who work in cope. There was a big big bang upstairs just now I don't know if you heard that I'm scared I'm really scared In fold that's what it was the enfold art science symposium That was it Da enfold and there is a website and they also have a I think enfold science and they might have an instagram where they're they put stuff together But anyway, it's the beginning enfold sci-art dot com There you go. Thank you enfold sci-art dot com Yeah It was pretty it was a pretty neat thing to be a part of um I was like, wow, what am I a part of what am I supposed to do right now? I don't know Be a part of this coolness You're checking it out. Yay. I gotta go. Uh, next week next week next week Uh, same bad time say bad channel, but I'm gonna be quick. I'm gonna have to be here and then I will have to Uh, go quickly Okay, you'll be here, but then have to leave by before 9 30 like that after like an hour Okay, so it'll be a little bit more right. Yeah, because you have to we have to start on time and then just get But I gotta You gotta get catch on a train Yeah, complete my day cycle like Exactly to start your day cycle get back to I have to get back to the vault Get back to the vault and in the wasteland too long Gotta get back to the nice save vault Uh, Vincent, uh, so for this art sci thing, um another place just get in touch with me. Um, because I do have a bunch of art science science art people that I know, um and the science communication conference that I just helped Organize and run this last week. We do have a science art component to that And we that was a big part of actually this last week's conference was a discussion around science art and what's happening there. So um I have a lot of information on at least the american landscape of Art science stuff that is out there. So, uh, yeah Get in touch with me and I will be able to connect you to things if you are interested In more and figuring out where you can show your art and get more involved in the art science science art Uh space slash community love to help out with that for sure Um, yeah anybody out there not just Vincent. So just you know Anybody anybody just and you too anybody I want to get I want I want to help get people connected And doing the things that they love to do I gotta stop making art. I've got too much of it. I mean to cut down on my No, make the art and then you have to give me some because I don't have any of it yet Fair enough fair enough fair enough, right? I've got Blair stuff. I don't have No Justin stuff. What am I gonna do? I'll make just any stuff Mm-hmm. You don't have to make anything new but you could whatever. Well, I uh, yeah T-shirts. I love t-shirts. Oh my god Okay, no your link didn't post because I have it probably set for the chat so that no links happen in there Um because of reasons Because of reasons. Yeah Because people take advantage of that kind of stuff um 0.506 for t-shirts Vincent Fink or 0.506 for t-shirts. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah digital art easier to store move around And if you've got it on the on the internets then Hopefully floods won't hurt them But physical I want physical things tired of the internets I like physical things Anyway, go do your day have a wonderful day a wonderful week ui and Blair and Blair um We will talk and have conversations soon and figure out things um, but in the meantime I will look forward to next week and Even just a quick hour hour plus show will be make me very very happy. So um We just can't sit and talk completely. We'll just have to Like I'm going to do as I go past the kitchen We good say goodbye say good morning Good morning Good night kiki. Good night everyone. Thank you for joining us for another fun filled episode of this weekend science So good to see you all. Thank you for joining us. Great to talk with you. Justin. So good to have a good show with you. Thank you Thank you And everyone have a wonderful night Send me emails if you need to I get the emails remember to use twists in the subject life and We're dancing now because Justin's doing that and um, stay safe. Stay healthy. Stay Curious and stay Lucky See you next week for more twists