 Welcome everyone, my name is Chair Chynes, I'm the Chair of the VSC Finance and Facilities Committee. This meeting was duly warned for today, July 23rd at 10.30 and we are meeting via Zoom video and we're also being live streamed. We have a busy agenda today, some very important work to cover. We have a brief consent agenda and then we will move into a very important review and updates on the status of our FY 2021 appropriations and our budget outlook for the year. We will then turn into making some revisions to three major long-standing policies of the VSC that pertain to budget development. We do also anticipate today having three executive sessions related to real estate, related to the appointment of a public official and related to some of our finance related work. So it is going to be busy and we are scheduled to be finished between noon and 1230 and then we have an opportunity for committee members who are returning for the Long Range Planning Committee meeting, which I believe is going to begin today at one. I'll give people a chance to grab a bite of lunch and then we'll carry on with long range planning for much of the afternoon. So it's a day for everyone. This is an important meeting in terms of transition. At our last meeting, we said farewell to Steve Braslowski and today we have our first opportunity to sit down with Sharon Scott, our new Chief Financial and Operating Officer. Before we turn to you Sharon for a few introductory comments, I just want to verify with Jen that she has enough information for board attendance today without going through a formal roll call. Yes, I do. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Then Sharon, you're not a stranger to this committee, but now you have far more gold brocade on your epaulets. I do, I do. You're welcome aboard. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I definitely have a little more on gold braid. I chose to wear a little pin today to represent my gold braid, unfortunately, it's silver, but we'll have to go with that. So I do want to take just a couple of seconds to introduce myself for those of you who may not know me. I'm Sharon Scott. I have been with the Vermont State Colleges since 2003. I joined first as the first Director of Administrative Information Systems and then in 2004 joined Johnson State as the Dean of Administration, adding Lyndon State in 2017 and then Northern Vermont University when we unified in 2018. So I am very grateful that I've had the opportunity to have gained a deep understanding of higher education these last 16 years, having been embedded in the daily operations of Johnson State, Lyndon and Northern Vermont University now. That gives me an advantage to being able to understand what happens at the colleges and hopefully be able to collaborate as fully as possible with my peers across the system. I am proud to be a first generation or have been a first generation college student. I grew up in Burlington, one of seven children, the daughter of a milkman. So I came from the opposite side of the tracks, not the wrong side of the tracks, just the opposite side where college attainment wasn't really something that was for the students that came from my community. So my parents really instilled in us a love of learning and the understanding that higher education was a way up and a way out to where you needed to be. And so I'm fully aware of the transformative power of higher education and I feel keenly the needs of our students. The great thing about that is that I really see that working for the Vermont State College is a calling, not a job. And for many of us, as the number of hours that we work, it has to be a calling, much like being a public servant as you all are serving our great state right now. So I wanna thank you for giving me this opportunity. Well, it's lovely. Welcome, Sharon. And I've understood that with your long tenure, you not only know where all the bodies are buried, you know where the ones have been dug up and relocated. And where we moved the marker. You moved the markers, yes. So you'll be very helpful to this committee and its future work in particular. I hope so. I'm really hopeful that I'm able to do so. I would just say, well done, Sophie. Okay, let's move ahead. Thank you to Sharon. Let's move ahead with the work to be done. We have a short two-item consent agenda consisting of the minutes of this committee's June 17th, 2020 meeting, it was a special meeting. We also have a revision to a previously approved grant for CCV. These materials have been shared with the committee. Is there any interest in taking them up separately? Seeing no hands waving, could we have a motion to approve the consent agenda consisting of the set of minutes and the revision to a CCV grant having to do with early childhood professional development? Moved by David. Do we have a second from the committee? Second. Michael? Are there any questions or discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of approving our consent agenda as described, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? We have approved the consent agenda. We'd like to turn now to, it's rather extraordinary in mid-summer, talking about a legislative update, but as Trustee Lippert and others know, this year it's never seeming to go away. So we have a update on legislative affairs. Thank you. Yeah, so just quickly, we finished the legislative session before the recess with a 25% of our base appropriation for the first quarter. We received 5 million in bridge funding out of general funds, and then we received almost 23 million in CRF funds, which are coronavirus relief funds that have to be used before December 30th. And I just want to emphasize, because I think there's been some confusion, both in by legislators, actually I've seen in the newspapers and others. The CRF funds have a specific limits on them. There's guidance from the US Treasury. We can't use them to replace lost revenue. We have to use them for COVID related expenses. We will use them as thoughtfully as we can in ways that will hopefully benefit the Vermont State colleges moving forward. For example, making sure that we have the very best hybrid instruction, remote instruction, infrastructure that will enable us to provide education across the state to students moving forward. Those are legitimate things that we can use the CRF funds for, but we cannot use them for our regular expenditures. They cannot replace lost revenue. So I just want to be clear because certainly we appreciate greatly what the legislature did for us. And they certainly have given us considerably more money than we have received in the past. And we're really appreciative of that. But I don't want there to be any confusion in terms of what the money is. So again, a large chunk of that is CRF funds that we have to spend by December. And we received 5 million in bridge funding. That was for the first quarter. So we still have work ahead of us when the legislature returns in August. And we will be working with the legislature both on the remainder of our base appropriation. So right now we've received one quarter of last year's base appropriation, but we still have the remainder of it to get. And then we need to also work with them on the remainder of the bridge funding. Yes, Linda. The Corona Relief funds. Does that also cover costs that we incurred in the year that ended June 30 to June 30 that were Corona virus related, COVID-19 related? That's a really good question. We received 12 million, just 12 and a half million dollars previously from the legislature for FY20 expenses. So that covered the 5.1 million that we did in room and board and it covered. And again, Sharon probably knows this more than I do, but we've used that money already to cover the costs for remote instruction through the summer and some of the changes, personal protective equipment, some of the costs that we've already had. So I don't know, Sharon, if you have anything else you wanted to add on that chunk of money and what happened to it? This new relief funds is really then just for what will be this fiscal year, the first six months of this fiscal year, July one. That's correct. So the prior year money we are actively spending, we were given additional permission to be able to continue to spend through the summer, that FY20 Monday. So the colleges and the system as a whole are working together to make sure that those funds are spent appropriately and on allowable expenses. Many of them have already been expended or incurred and we're just waiting for product to arrive. Let me just ask a quick question then regarding fiscal 2020 along the lines of Linda's question. The committee learned previously that with the anticipated support for COVID related expenses in 2020, you gave us an approximation of what you thought the year in for 2020 would look like. Are there any reason now to change or can you reaffirm our thinking about how we expect 2020 will look after we close the June 30th books? So the good news is that it looks like we can reaffirm that it will be at least that amount or more favorable, which is positive. And that has been because we were able to use some of the CARES funding that came in the second round of CARES Act money to be able to cover faculty expenditures, which we had not anticipated being able to do. We're still obviously in the process of calculating the end of the year. It's always a slow slog and hopefully very soon we'll be able to have a little bit better a sense of what's happening, but it will be at least that if not better. Very good, thank you. We kind of jumped in the middle of you, so if we keep going. It's okay. The only other piece I really wanted to flag was that the first quarter transitional budget that was passed included language creating a select committee, a legislative select committee focused on the future of public higher education in Vermont. It is very focused on the Vermont State Colleges as we're the sort of most immediate crisis point right now. And that committee is moving forward. I believe that most, if not all of the members of the select committee have now been chosen. There was still a couple the last time that I heard from the Joint Fiscal Office that needed to be appointed. The under the statute that the committee is supposed to meet by the end of August, but I believe that they will be looking to meet possibly sooner than that. The other piece is that there was an RFP that was put out by the Joint Fiscal Office for an external consultant to assist that committee. The RFPs were due on Friday, the last week and the select committee steering group will be making the decision as to the consulting firm or consultant that will be hired to assist it. So that is just beginning to get going. My understanding is that under the current, the way the statute's currently written, it has an 18 month timeline for that committee to meet and work, but I believe there's interest in trying to limit the length of time down to more to a one year, just to try to get it moving more swiftly so decisions can be made sooner. So hopefully the Vermont State College's need for bridge funding would end sooner. So I think there's interest in changing that when the legislator's come back, but I don't have anything definite on that at this point. So that's really what I have for legislative update, if anyone has any other questions. Bill. Hey, Bill. If I may, apologies, not being a member of this committee, but would, Sophie, would you, at your first convenience, share the list of the appointees to the select committee? I really, you had done that previously, but there were some that were not, had not been filled at that point. Yes, I can do that. Thank you. Other thoughts or questions for Sophie on legislative update? I noted to some of you that one of the UVM appointees, Briar Alpert is their trustee representative and he of course runs a very large, very high-tech company, a Vermont-based company, Vermont Born and Bread Company. I was there when they opened it. And he's very tuned into workforce development, especially for highly sophisticated applications and is a terrific fellow. And I think that it's really good for the study committee to have Briar on there. He will be a good voice and I think acutely interested in the BSC because I'm sure that he has BSC grads throughout his organization. Shall we move ahead then to our fourth agenda item, reviewing FY21 state appropriations? There's more to add there. And I can start with that. Yesterday we submitted a letter to the governor regarding our state appropriation request. Sharon and I had spoken with Adam Grashin on Monday as it was the first time around for both of us doing this to get a feel for what they were looking for. They were obviously looking for us to be requesting a reduction in the base appropriation and we explained why that was not going to be what we were seeking. So anyway, we have submitted our request and we're seeking $30 million with an additional $10.3 million on top of the base that we currently have. And again, that's really largely the bridge funding for this coming year based on the financial situation that we're facing. Big numbers. Very big numbers. Yes. Lynn. Yeah, Sophie, can you repeat that? You were asking for the base of $30 million and you're adding, you said too. Right. So the, yeah, the base is of $30 million and then an additional $30 million in bridge funding and then an additional $10.3 on top of that and that would be related more to the COVID, COVID expenses moving forward. Thank you. Now, the one last question. Isn't the $5 million we've already gotten for bridges that included in the $30 million? That would be. Yes. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Other thoughts and questions about the freshly minted FY21 official budget request? I would just add the governor's budget is due to the legislature on August 18th. Okay. Very good. I might add that the new revenue estimates are also due to the legislature. I think somewhere around the same period of time. Right before we reconvened on August 26th. Yeah, and we certainly understand that the revenue estimates are not great and that's going to make it very challenging for us when we come back to work with the legislature to get the additional funding that we believe we need. Further thoughts or discussions on this agenda item? Hey, church. Yes, Michael. I think Lynn had her hand up, but I have a question after. You go first. Okay. And mine's not so much a question as just in following the new stimulus bill that's being discussed in Washington. I did see that some money is being proposed or discussed for your mark for higher ed. So I guess you're probably all on top of that, but something we should keep an eye out on. Yes, what would be very helpful for the Vermont State College is given how generous the state has been, the legislature has been, would be a relaxation of the requirement that says the money cannot be used for revenue replacement. That is the single biggest thing that is holding us back from being able to effectively use those funds. What we had requested for FY21 was about $15 million, $15 million plus or minus in CRF related money to cover direct expenses. We know how hard it is to be able to find additional funds. And if there was a relaxation of that rule, that would be something that would be incredibly helpful and beneficial to us. Is that something we've communicated to the congressional delegation? Yes. Yes. Great, thank you. Yeah, I just want to say that so we're asking we originally had talked about a $25 million bridge money. We're now looking at 30 plus 40 million. I'm curious as to why Adam and the people in the administration thought we were going to ask for a reduction in our base when we already had been promised essentially 55 million. That's what I understood. And I think that the issue that Sharon just raised is a really important issue because everybody has been told all along in our committees and what we've been doing to deal with CRF money is that revenue replacement is not allowed and the federal government does talk about reviewing this money and if we don't follow their rules they will try to claw it back. And so what is the concern? It's a definite concern and we are being extraordinarily careful in how we proceed with spending the money. It would be very easy to just go forward given the pot of money. This is an enormous sum of money that has a very, very tight deadline. December 30 is very, very close. We are extraordinarily concerned about making sure that we meet the obligations of the US Department of Treasury. The rules are very clear. They're very well-defined. It's a matter of us making sure that we follow them but this is the biggest stumbling block that we have with these funds that are sitting before us. Why did they think we'd lower our base? I think that was just the assumption that was sent out by the administration tool state agencies was that they look at a 5% reduction across the board. So I don't think we were being singled out specifically. That was just the memo that we received. That was what they were seeking. That was made very clear. Well, we can hold out hope then that maybe the next federal legislation will help because otherwise it's a little bit like, well, we gave you $100 for groceries but you can only use it on Brussels sprouts. That is quite a good analogy. I love Brussels sprouts. It wouldn't be a big issue for me but I can understand that it's an issue for some. Okay. This important topic, further questions or discussion? Then we'll move into our fifth agenda item turning our estimated FY 2021 performance. I know at some point, Sophie and Sharon, you would like us to go into executive session. Can you give us some indication as to when you would like us to do that? I think I'd like to do a brief presentation if you're okay with that, Mr. Chair and have the opportunity for a few public questions or comments from the board that we could do publicly and then go into executive session if that's possible. Okay. I will be sharing my screen because we did share a lot of charts and I thought it would be helpful for me to just point out what I was thinking of as we were moving forward. So looking at this first chart, this is the chart that shows the estimated net revenues at the end of this current fiscal year that we are moving into. This estimate was based on forecasts that were current as of July 17 and it was based on the best available information that we had at the time including updated enrollment forecasts that reflected each institution's anticipated delivery mode at that time. It's also important to note that the predictive value of what we're looking at here and this estimate is significantly lower in confidence than what we would normally provide to you at this time of the year. Conditions are changing very rapidly, daily, if not hourly, therefore we consider these as more of a central tendency rather than a current fact. So we wish you to know that we believe that right now we believe that this is the most favorable estimate we will be sharing with you this year. I know that's very discouraging to say that the best we will probably be is $30 million deficit but the fact of the matter remains that we are facing a very uphill battle given all that is going on around us. The spring, the Joint Fiscal Office commissioned a study by Jim Page, the former chancellor of the University of the Main System and he assessed several factors of the Vermont State College's financial conditions and two of those is that he assessed include assessing the financial gap for FY 2020 which he completed and the expected financing gap for FY 2020 and his report, he was able to confirm the veracity of the VSCS's financial position for... Have we lost Sharon? She's locked up. I think she... I'm not hearing her either. I had trouble with audio today too. I don't know whether it's our Zoom connection or what it is. The weather. Yeah, everything just blipped out on me a moment ago. I don't know if it happened to everybody. Oh, okay. Yes. Looks like Meg is trying to get us back online. I just let Sharon know that she was frozen. Looks like we all dropped. So she's trying to reconnect. Hopefully I am back. I am going to not share my screen just in case there seems to be a little bit of a glitch going on. So I'm not sure where I left you. So I'm going to start again at the chart showing the forecasts related to best and worst scenarios. So presented on this chart was both a best likely and worst likely scenario as described by Mr. Page. And the sources of the assessment included work from the Vermont State Treasurer as well as data supplied by the colleges and system. Currently, we're estimating that the shortfall would be nearly 30 million, as we said before. And it cannot be addressed within the system's means. When you look at the best and worst case scenarios, you can see that in nearly all cases, we are part way through where we're looking at for worst case. In fact, when you look at the next chart, which shows the best and worst case and our percent of where we are right now, what you'll see that with all institutions except for CCV, we're between 65 and 74% of our worst likely scenario in terms of overall net revenue position. This is a really tight correlation and it can be attributed to several factors. The first is the consistency in the development of the scenarios. The second is the possibility of some level of consensus in the marketplace that seems to maybe be getting addressed. And then the third is the use of similar forecasting processes across the institutions as assisted by the State Treasurer and Mr. Page. The percent variance as it relates to the best likely scenarios, however, is quite a variable, particularly when comparing Castleton to VTC and NVU. We recognize that there's a need for greater oversight and review of the budget and forecasting processes that we're using. This is just one example of what is coming forward from that. And we are presenting policy adjustments, as you'll see later in today's meeting, that if approved, we believe would address those. The next chart is a chart showing the forecasted key revenue lines as of July 17th. And as you may know, revenue from students in the form of tuition and fees and room and board accounts for slightly more than 78% of annual revenue of the Vermont State Colleges, excluding the state appropriation. Sales and services and the form of camps and conferences and revenue raising activities account for a much smaller, yet highly variable component of revenue. Combined across the Vermont State College's system, revenue from these three sources varies from about 129 million in the best likely scenario to 90 million in the worst case scenario. At the present time, we're estimating revenue at about 111.2 million or 18.6 million less than the best likely scenario and about $20 million higher than our worst likely scenario. I want to point out that all institutions are projecting revenue substantially lower than the best likely scenario offered previously. And that is universal across all of our institutions, including CCV, that our current revenue forecast is less than our best case scenario that was described by Jim Page. That is one of the reasons why we're saying right now that this is the most favorable estimate that you will see this year. So currently, CCV, NVU and VTC anticipate revenues that are between 88% and 90% of their best likely revenue estimate. While Castleton is currently estimating revenue that is about 79% of their best likely. Looking at the next slide, which shows expenses across all of the institutions and the system, currently the Vermont State Colleges forecasts total expenses for the year at 174 million. The overall estimated difference between the best and worst likely anticipated expenses is about $12 million. As noted earlier in the materials that we shared with you, both CCV and Vermont Tech estimate total year expenses that are less than the worst likely scenario, which is great. And thus pulling their current estimate more favorable than would have been expected given their revenue reductions shown earlier. For both Castleton and NVU to a lesser degree, there are revenue or expense reductions that are shown in their forecast. While there's still room to maneuver within our budgets and within our financial structure, I have to point out that the institutions face many obstacles to making immediate, meaningful change in their financial situation. A couple of the obstacles that we should keep in mind are working within the timelines of our existing collective bargaining agreements and the complication of fixed costs that we already have such as utilities, debt service, and things like meal plan charges. These things have a long lead time in order to be able to change. There are both risks and opportunities associated with the forecast that we've presented here. Some of the risks include a government order that might require closure of a campus or a reduction in residential services. And depending on the nature of any order, this could have a devastating effect on the revenue estimate, especially if it extends into the spring or beyond a single semester. Cancellation of athletics programs for the winter, spring, or fall may have an enrollment effect. And in some cases, since creation of this estimate, these forecasts of already, these activities are already starting to change. Regional or statewide surge in COVID-19 could reduce public confidence and that may have an effect on our enrollment. And then any diagnosed cases of COVID-19 on campus that are not mitigated and addressed and quarantined properly could again, if they're not handled well, have an enrollment effect. But there are several opportunities. It's not all doom and gloom. There are several things that we can do to improve our budget. One thing that is actually playing into our benefit is the perceived safety of Vermont and Governor Scott's expert handling of the pandemic. That has made Vermont be considered a safe haven. I know for many of us, we see a lot of out-of-state cars when we travel around the state, but it may boost our enrollment if that continues. We are a bright spot in the United States. External budget relief and the form of bridge funding from the state or as I mentioned earlier, relaxation of the CRF rules to allow use of the funds for revenue replacement could have a very positive effect on our bottom line. The continued ability to be able to offer face-to-face programs where we are doing so today and residential experiences as well, as well as the expansion of these programs into the spring could have a positive effect. And then finally, substantial budget adjustments on behalf of the VSC is something that we should be considering. While these aren't an exhaustive list of the risks and opportunities we face regarding our finances, it does give you a sense as to what we are facing today. Again, I wanna point out our overall budget, estimated budget deficit. Currently, we view the most favorable deficit estimate at $30 million. We further anticipate that this deficit may exceed the worst likely scenario of $46 million as outlined by Mr. Page and Treasurer Pierce. Because neither the Treasurer's analysis nor Mr. Page's analysis contemplated the potential adverse impact of COVID on our ability to be able to resume normal operations in spring 2021. So we are grateful for the $5 million the VSC has already received in bridge funding as well as the first quarter transitional budget that level funded our state appropriation for the first three months of the year. As well as the 22.758 million in COVID funds that were granted to the VSCS. However, combined, this is not enough. The system has to take significant action to keep our operating losses as low as possible this current year. Additionally, the work of VSCS forward and the legislative select committee is essential to our ability to create the transformational change that will allow us to operate longer term within our means. So Mr. Chair, thank you for giving me the opportunity to present and I'm prepared to answer any questions you may have. Very sobering thoughts and questions for Sharon, please. Sobering but penetrating and very well done. Yes, just a comment to Lynn and Bill. I know that the reviews that were conducted by Treasurer Pierce and by Jim Page were primarily designed for the legislator's benefit. But I think this Sharon's presentation demonstrates that it's also been a benefit to the VSC. It's given us some guardrails that we can keep sight of and to help validate our own internal assumptions by matching them with their conclusions as well. And I think that has been very useful to this committee. I would just say that early on, I felt like an independent review of finances was imperative in order to instill some sense of confidence that the VSC was not crying wolf or not being able to provide accurate information to those who are responsible for any potential appropriation of the legislature. And so I think that's been critical regardless of the development subsequent to that. I think that review was very important. Yeah, I agree and I do think that it's really important that the numbers that we got from Steve Wislasky on these net revenues for the VSC estimated performances on that page 11 are very similar or identical to the ones that the Treasurer and Jim Page came up with. I mean, they're so close, they're basically the same. So we were getting accurate information, but I don't think anybody believed it. That's why I think it required an independent eye in order to validate the figures that we were faced with. To add to our credibility, and I think the other thing that I did not only that the numbers came out the same, but if I'm remembering what I heard from Jim Page and Treasurer saw written or heard reported regarding that was that they were also favorably impressed with how readily the information could be provided by the Vermont State Colleges. So not only was our judgment, did we have our judgment credibility added, we had, I'd say the capability of the team, their credibility was, and that's a good thing for us, especially if what I'm thinking, I think what I heard Sharon say was, okay, the minus 30 million is best, best case and that there were at the time that much of that was done and certainly when Jim Page and others were doing it, there was potentially more hope that students would be more fully back on campus than might in the end be the case and that that will make the number look worse. So I think that's gonna help us with our credibility going forward too, I certainly hope so. I also sense that if we were to look at the corresponding committee for literally every other college or university in the state of Vermont, they're receiving the same kind of information as we've received, perhaps not as clearly articulated and well laid out, but I'm sure that their boards are nodding their heads and listening to very similar outlooks and risks and opportunities. We're as publicly articulated, I might add. Yeah. Sorry. Okay. I think, can I just say that I don't think we can underestimate the challenge that we're going to be faced as the VSC in going into the budget process when the legislature does reconvene. We are going, the situation, the VSC is critical. I think the issues have been more than publicly amplified, but we are not going to be alone in seeking assistance from the legislature. This is going to be in every sector of the Vermont economy and frankly, the challenge before us is beyond daunting. And we also as the state are seeking flexibility from the federal government and the use of CRF funds in terms of revenue replacement, because we are restricted as well in not using it for revenue replacement. Absence and flexibility, the situation is extreme. It's dire. Are there other? We have the advantage of having to get in there early. Say again? I think we have the advantage of getting there early for what it's worth. Any further comments or questions for this point in our discussion? Then trustee Dickinson, do you have a resolution that would bring us into executive session to continue this discussion? I do. Okay, I move the finance and facilities committee with the VSC board of trustees enter executive session pursuant to one VSA section 313 subsection A1B to discuss labor relations agreements with employees because premature general public knowledge of these discussions would place the VSC at a substantial disadvantage. It is appropriate for the committee to enter executive session. Along with members of the board president at this meeting and its discretion, the committee invites the chancellor, the members of the council of presidents, the members of the business affairs council, the VSC chief financial officer, the VSC chief academic officer and the VSC interim general council to attend. The board will not take any action and executive sessions so moved. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? All those in favor of entering into executive session for the motion as read, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? We have the needed two thirds voting in favor. We will now go into executive session and I believe we are going to do that by going into a different room. Yes, Meg will be sending you the invitation to go to the breakout room. So look for that. Okay. This is church Hines. We've just come out of executive session. No action was taken then. No action is anticipated at this time. We are going to move ahead to our sixth agenda item having to do with the waiver or revision of three of our standing operating policies, policy 403, 407 and 429. I guess I would turn things back to Sophie and or Sharon to take us through this. And I'm going to refer to Sharon. Go ahead, Sharon. Great. Thank you so much. So in March, we would like to make the case for a system-wide budgeting. It's a straightforward case in our opinion. The VSC as I have shared earlier is facing an unprecedented budget shortfall between somewhere around 30 million to $46 million or more for the upcoming fiscal year. Three of our four institutions are currently anticipating budget deficits in excess of $5 million. And while the institutions can and will make expense adjustments to lower the overall deficit as much as possible, they will not be able to balance the budget without outside relief. The problems facing the VSCs must be addressed collectively and collaboratively as a system afford to be successful. Individually, our institutions lack the critical mass to address their challenges on their own. Duplicated academic programs, pricing models for similar institutions that increase competition and a limited focus on group buying to engage the power of the economies of scale result in increased costs and decreased revenues throughout the system. Today, budgets are developed independently by each institution and there's little opportunity for oversight by the chancellor. This lack of oversight diminishes the system's ability to be able to meet the VSC mission or to address the board directed priorities because resource allocation is at the level of the local level rather than across the system. Combined, this negatively affects the board's ability to exercise its fiduciary responsibilities as the information presented to the board can be disjointed and consistent and inconsistent as seen on some of the slides that I shared earlier to this morning. We believe that a stronger oversight in the development and administration of the system annual operating budget would have a positive effect on the Vermont State College's ability to meet these issues today and into the future. As noted in the materials, few changes to the existing policies are actually required to take this action as the policies already give the authority to the chancellor in collaboration with the council of presidents to develop a system-wide annual operating budget. However, the practical matter is that this authority has been historically delegated directly to the presidents since well before my time at the VSC. Therefore, we're asking you for the following items. The first is a reconformation that the chancellor is responsible for the development of the system annual operating budget in collaboration with the council of presidents. The second is to waive the appropriations formula for all extraordinary allocations from the state, such as transition, bridge, or CRF funds. The third is to require the chancellor to review and approve all institutional tuition setting to confirm that sister institutions are not undercutting each other on price. And the fourth is to require approval by the chancellor for all transactions over $100,000 or 12 months to encourage greater collaboration between institutions. We'd also ask that you suspend both policy 403, the system annual operating budget, and policy 407, responsibility for deficits incurred after June 30th, 1979, for the development of the FY22 budget cycle, and that you require us to develop new policies or revise these policies in time for the budget development next year. You'll find a copy of the revised 403 in the materials that I sent to you yesterday. There is one change from the materials that I sent in terms of the language. After speaking with chair Heinz, he suggested rightly that we should explain what we mean by bridge and CRF funds. Hopefully 20 years from now, none of us will have any idea what those buildings will be and they'll all be a bad dream. So we did revise that language to specifically refer to the extraordinary funding, such as, and then explained what those are. And so you will find the resolution, if you're interested in it, on page 34 of the materials. Could we have someone introduce the resolution and have a second so we can have discussion, please? I would move the resolution. Thank you, David. Is there a second? Second from Michael. Questions and comments? Makes sense. David. Well, my comment is that I was surprised that this wasn't occurring when I joined the board in 2018, that the system didn't have more input into the budget process. And I fully support this action. Thank you, David. Linda, did I see your hand? It seems like there has been talk that this would be good move, more of this consolidation for quite a while without it actually ever happening. I also support the move. Very good. Michael. Thanks, church. And I'll just echo David and Linda's comments and both I think in terms of general budget development in normal times, this is a value but considering what we're facing now, it's all the more imperative that we have a single approach since we're going to end up, you know, each institution to some degree is gonna end up relying on the other institution from a financial perspective until we find our way out of the current financial situation. Thank you. I just wanna say that from where I sit, I view this as a tactical need. I don't view it as remedial from where I sit, you know, I'm guessing today is probably about my 95th Finance Committee over the years. I have never had reason to believe that presidents were involved in anything that was underhanded or anything that sounded like shenanigans and that this is the revisions that we're looking at today is to somehow remedy a problem. I view it more as a necessity given the days that we are living in and the challenges we have ahead of us. But I have full faith and confidence of the presidents over the years and their financial leadership in the integrity of the budgets that they've brought to us. I just wanna be sure that at least from my perspective, we're not trying to correct some kind of a major problem here. Further discussion or questions? Bill. Realizing that I'm not a member of the committee, I think it, let this to be clear, this is being recommended as a recommendation to the Finance and Facilities Committee, which would then be recommending it if adopted to the full board for adoption, that until the full board adopts this, it is not the new policy. That's correct. Okay. So the motion would be to adopt the resolution as distributed for presentation to the full board. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of advancing this resolution as described David's got his hands up. I'm sorry. No. Okay. I was voting, I was saying aye. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Excellent. Thank you, one and all. We have completed agenda item six. At this point in time, I just wanna verify that we do want to go into Executive Session to discuss land transactions. Yes, we do. Okay. I vote the Finance and Facilities Committee or the VSC Board of Trustees enter Executive Session pursuant to one VSA section 313, subsection A2 to discuss negotiating or securing real estate purchase or lease options, along with the members of the board president this meeting and its direct discretion. The committee invites the Chancellor, the President of Vermont Technical College, Dean of Administration of Vermont Technical College, the VSC Chief Financial Officer and the VSC Interim General Counsel to attend. The board may as appropriate and permitted by law take action regarding real estate during this Executive Session. So moved. Is there a second? I think. We have a second. Any discussion, any questions? All those in favor of going into Executive Session, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? We will now go into Executive Session for the purposes as described. Hello, everyone. We have just exited Executive Session. And as you heard in the resolution that we went in with, it had to do with real estate during our Executive Session. We did adopt a motion that we would be bringing to the full board for their consideration. And we are now able to move to our agenda item related to public comment. And I'd like to turn things to Meg and Jen who can help us identify whether there is anyone at this point who would like to bring something to the attention of the Finance and Facilities Committee. Absolutely, Chair Hines. If you would like to make a public comment, please go ahead and raise your hand and we can get you heard. Beth Walsh, you can unmute yourself and go ahead, Beth. Okay, great. Thank you. Welcome, Beth. Thank you. I just, I appreciated the detail of the financial report from Sharon Scott. It didn't surprise me. In fact, I'm really normally very optimistic and I think that's a very optimistic prediction, but I've been thinking for a while that if the state of Vermont decides they want a public higher education system, then the funding will have to come through. And if it doesn't come through, it's a clear sign that the state of Vermont doesn't want that. I'm really hopeful that the state of Vermont wants to provide public higher education to our Vermont students. Thank you. Thank you, Beth. I'm sure you're not alone in that opinion. Me too. Okay. Bill? Church, is it appropriate for me to make a comment in response to Beth's public comment? Of course it is. I would just, I'm speaking as a legislator and as a legislative trustee. I think it's imperative that the point of view that you've shared, Beth, be expressed broadly to the legislature and to the executive branch so that it is not, which I believe it will be, but so that it's not seen as simply something from the board of this institution. I think it needs to be understood that the broad importance of what this Vermont State College's system means to the state of Vermont and to the communities in which it serves needs to be continued to be expressed clearly and forcefully. I'm not just by this board. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Okay. Anyone else wishing to make a public comment? Please raise your hand. Mr. Chair, I'm not seeing anyone else at this time. Okay, thank you, Jen. We have one other under other business, our ninth agenda item. We have, I understand, an interest in returning to executive session for a third time. Trustee Dickinson, do you have a motion? I have a motion. I move the Finance and Facilities Committee with the VSC Board of Trustees under executive session pursuant to one VSA section 313, subsection A3 to discuss the appointment of a public official. The committee shall make a final decision on any such public official in an open meeting and shall explain the reasons for this final decision during the open meeting, along with the members of the board president at this meeting in his discretion, the committee invites the chancellor to attend. So moved. Is there a second? Second. We have a second. Any discussion? All those in favor of going into executive session for the reasons as outlined in the motion, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? We will once again go into the breakout room or whatever it's best called, and we shall return. Thank you. So Sophie, should we start as five members of quorum for our committee? Yes, it is. I think that's fine. Yeah, why don't we start because we do have some external speakers and we want to make sure we provide them as much time as we can to hear from them and ask them questions. So why don't we get kicked off? So welcome everybody. This is a meeting of the Long Range Planning Committee scheduled for 1 PM today, the 23rd of July. We had our last Long Range Planning Committee meeting probably just over a month ago, and we heard a lot of good information and a lot of updates from the campuses and each of the institutions. There was a lot of progress that was being made and a lot of items that were sort of in process, a lot of workflows and work streams and task forces that were sort of in progress. And we really wanted to schedule this meeting today, which wasn't originally scheduled so that we had an opportunity to again hear from each of the institutions on the progress that they're making under some of the strategies and goals that we've set for them, but also want to hear from the different organizations that are external to the institutions that have been working on ways to make our system more sustainable and stronger for post pandemic life and just generally more sustainable from a financial perspective as well. So that's the bulk of our meeting is to have an opportunity to hear from those organizations and also our institutions. We'll hear from VSCS Thrive, which is an organization that has been in existence since about April and they have been contemplating some ideas and strategies for the Vermont State Colleges that they will explain to us. We'll also then hear from the labor task force that similarly has been thinking about opportunities for the Vermont State Colleges to be more sustainable. And then we will also hear from our own Vermont State College forward task force that the board probably remembers us establishing again about six to eight weeks ago. So looking forward to hearing an update from them as well and then we'll get an update again from each of the presidents and the chancellor also. So a lot of information to be had today but looking forward to that engagement and looking forward to the opportunity to hear from everyone and ask questions as well. The first thing that we have before we introduce Vermont State College System Thrive is to approve our minutes though. And these are minutes from our June 1st meeting. Does anyone have any comments or corrections to the minutes? Seeing none and hearing none, can I have a motion to approve the minutes? Karen moves, do we have a second? Adam seconds. All those in favor say aye. Aye. I saw some hands as well as the voice. So minutes are adopted and thank you very much everyone. So why don't we get right to welcoming our guests here? As I mentioned, VSCS Thrive is the first group that's going to present to the Long Range Planning Committee today. We're looking forward to inviting them in or I have looked forward to inviting them in and to hearing from them. I know the rest of the committee members are as well and certainly appreciate their enthusiasm and engagement and commitment to the Vermont State College System. So why don't I turn it over to Sophie to introduce our specific speakers from the organization. Yeah, I believe Mary Collins is going to be the primary spokesperson but Mary feel free to show us on video. And then if you have other folks that are going to be joining you and doing the presentation. Hi, Mary. Hello. Thank you. Yes, first I want to say thank you to Chancellor Zadotny and to the Board of Trustees for allowing us this time. We know that you have been in this deep conversation for a number of months now and we appreciate your diligence and your patience and your enthusiasm for the Vermont State Colleges and for allowing us these 20 minutes to share our work and our hope and goals for the SCS. I'm going to preface my words. There are about 10 of us who serve on this task force or coalition and I will forward a summary of who those people are with a little bit of a bio. And then what we say today is also summarized in writing and I will forward that to you as well so that you have the written document of what we have to share. Sorry, just to interrupt. If it's the case for Vermont State Colleges that has been shared with all the trustees or is this something in addition? It's something in addition. Okay, that's all right. I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. Yes, certainly, thank you. I will be introducing and speaking and I will be followed by Kathy Printon and she will be followed by Susan Rand. And those are the three people who are scheduled to speak and then if you have questions of us, the rest of us who are here would be happy to participate in the question and answer session. VSCS Thrive, as I've mentioned to the chancellor, is a group of faculty, staff, students, alumni and community members who are interested in the vitality and sustainability of the VSCS. And we have been meeting for approximately four months with many, many meetings to work in conjunction with you in the very best way we can to support the best interest of the Vermont State Colleges and to work in an alliance with you and as partners with you to help provide the very best to Vermont students and to future VSCS students. And I will read you what I wrote, which I will also share with you. I could quote statistical evidence to support my belief that higher education for Vermonters is a good investment. I could list an endless number of justifications, financial, social, economic and other for maintaining and in fact, growing the state's commitment and investment in its young. I could talk about the missteps and detours the state has taken over the past 20 odd years that have led to this critical time and decision about whether or not it is prudent to continue to support Vermont State Colleges into the future. But you have heard this from us and others for the past four months and in previous documents we have submitted to you and others have submitted. Instead, I wanna share my story as a first generation VSCS grad. It may not be the most eloquent or compelling, but for me, it's all I got to share and perhaps may echo the stories of thousands more like me who benefited from a VSCS education. Everyone has a story. And while mine may not be reason enough for the VSCS to change current course nor may we ultimately be able to do so, I believe it's deeply important for the Board of Trustees to do everything you can to stop the rush to right size our state colleges. At risk are our current and future generations. They recognize the VSCS as an important determiner of their future. Educated Vermonters help to make Vermont a vibrant state, but not all of us Vermonters can afford to leave Vermont to gain that education. So in some very critical ways, the VSCS is irreplaceable and the legislature has left us in a sorry state. That's not your fault. To be the least well-funded state college system in the nation is not a badge of honor. Here's my point. At the heart of his book, The Vanishing Middle Class, Prejudice and Power in a Dual Economy, 2017, Peter Teman, an economist from MIT, argued that following decades of growing inequality, America has been left with what is more or less a two-class system, one small, predominantly white upper class that wields a disproportionate share of money, power, and political influence and a much larger minority heavy, but still mostly white lower class that is all too frequently subject to the first group's whims. I am here to tell you that it mattered deeply to me as one of those lower class kids that I had an opportunity to choose a different path than many of my closest friends. One year out of high school working a low paying, no future, hospital clerk job and watching all three of my best girlfriends get married one right after the other at the age of 19, 20, and 21 years of age. I recognized I was not on the path I wanted to be on. I thought this is not right for me. It's not my path. I have more to learn, more to offer, more to say, more to do. And I won't find it at the end of a row of medical records or with an engagement ring on my left hand just one year beyond my senior prom. Yet back in 1976, I didn't have a lot of confidence nor was I provided much support or guidance to continue my education. My parents were not college educated. My eldest sibling enlisted in the Navy. The remaining four of us floundered around on our own. Each of us taking a few courses at UVM. It was perfectly acceptable from my family's point of view for us to get a job, get a life and frankly just get on with it. I knew there was something more. I knew it from the time I was 10 years old sitting in our basement, reading from a fluorescent desk surrounded by darkness and memorizing poems by Robert Frost just because I liked the sound of his words. And I so wanted to understand the message that was beyond my understanding at the time. I knew it when friends offered to pay thee to write poems for them so they wouldn't flunk English class. I knew it at 17 when I received a standing ovation when I spoke from an unprepared script in front of 750 of my high school peers. What I didn't know was that a first generation kid like me from a lower middle class family growing up in Burlington, Vermont could even consider getting an education beyond high school. No one had ever invited me to ask the question not my parents, not my teachers, no one. There was, as Peter Temen alluded to in his book a certain pecking order and I already knew my place within it. So without any plan and with just the money I'd saved from working that first year out of high school I decided I should continue my education and I enrolled at Johnson State College in the fall of 1977. Why Johnson? Because it was attainable, affordable, and it felt familiar. I'd attended a small private Catholic school my entire life. Going to a big university was not affordable nor was it a comfortable fit. I felt at home on the Johnson campus and it was there that I found my calling. Rather, my calling was uncovered by a trio of English professors who saw something in me I had not yet consciously recognized in myself. And that was my talent for writing. I had always taken it for granted. I didn't see it as a career path or even something to pursue in more depth. It was just something I did because I enjoyed it and because within which I heard my real voice. How earning that degree has played out in my life is nothing short of remarkable. I've made a career from my writing through broadcasting, advertising, social advocacy and as a teacher. I've been published in anthologies and national magazines. I've won numerous awards, received national recognition for my advocacy work and I've had the opportunity to meet and work with people whose names and reputations are known by thousands. Having a liberal arts education has allowed me to pursue my interest and diversify my career while staying here in Vermont to do it, to raise my son here and to continue contributing to my home state. While I paid every dollar of my college education myself I've always understood it to be the best bargain and the best investment I've ever made. So now I simply ask that you recognize the importance. In fact, the necessity of continuing Vermont's investment in our state colleges and in a liberal arts education as a way for Vermonters to evolve as human beings not just as a job seeker hoping to carve out a career path but as the true opportunities it presents for a kid like me whose passions and talents are worthy in and of themselves and from which a career will appear because that student's talent ingenuity, creativity and longing will forge a path through whatever wilderness we find ourselves in. I know college is expensive. I know we have all been horrified at the specter and effective COVID-19. I know there are no guarantees that college will cure all ills or that there aren't other opportunities beyond our Vermont state colleges but I ask you to consider what life is like in communities where the vitality has been sucked out of them. If we diminish our state colleges and the communities they are in, we diminish our very heritage and sustainability of our uniquely distinctive and important Vermont future and way of life. It's all intertwined education, jobs, community culture. I believe it's imperative that we sustain the VSCS for future generations and not just as work mills churning out certificates but as institutions of a deeper higher learning. I know we'll reap the rewards of that investment. The evidence bears this out. The VSCS Thrive Coalition is here to support you, to align with you in a good and purposeful way to do the research and hard work to make the best recommendations for the VSCS's future. We've worked diligently these past four months and have many ideas to share from a learned and dedicated group of interested faculty, staff, alumni, students and community members. We only ask that you include us as a trusted and helpful partner to assist in the future vibrancy of the VSCS and what it means for Vermont to sustain our colleges for generations to come. In closing, I want to share with you our vision for the future of the VSCS. It's this, to reinvest, reinvigorate and reimagine the Vermont state colleges, we believe contrary to the NVU strong proposals, both NVU and Castleton and VTC should be robust liberal arts universities serving the respective regions while VTC should remain a robust technical college for all of Vermont. And CCV becomes an integrated pathway to four year degrees. To meet these ends, the legislature must fund the VSC as required by Vermont statutes in whole or in substantial part. I want to thank you for listening to me, for your generosity of time, your attention and your sincere consideration. We're here in support, in solidarity and hope that you believe as strongly in the VSCS as we do and that you too wish to see all the schools remain to serve Vermont for generations to come. Thank you. And I will pass over to Kathy Printon. Well, Mary, just to say thank you very much before turning it over to Kathy for sharing your very eloquent and inspiring and moving personal story and for the points that you made about the importance of the system for Vermont. I think you said the success of the system was intertwined and I can't agree with you more. I think it's intertwined both from a Vermont workforce and Vermont economy perspective. But as you point out, and I'm sure the book points out that you referenced, it's critical for Monitor's Economic Mobility as well. So it's both of those. Well, thank you, Mary. Kathy, are you on with us? I am, I'm here. I don't know if I'm on your screen, but here I am. Well, I'll find you on my screen, but go ahead. Awesome, great. Again, thank you so much. I have a very brief statement and I wasn't planning on speaking today except for the fact that I had an exchange recently. What I do for work is I work for a federal grant through VSAC that we work with first generation and moderate to low income students in the GEARUP program out of the outreach department at VSAC. And all of what we do is college and career access. So we work very closely and build relationships with mostly first generation students around the state, mostly in the pockets of Vermont where the state colleges exist. So our work is really to help students. Mary's experience was 30 plus years ago. My experience, I'm a 1985 graduate of Johnson State was many years ago. My concern is for these first generation students for whom a big step out of their communities is too much to ask. So if the colleges that are their neighborhood colleges disappear, a lot of our first generation rural Vermonters will not continue in their education. So that's first and foremost. I just, I wanted to echo Mary's story because while it was decades ago, there are still students in their basements. There are still students leaving high school at the end of the day not being able to take advantage of sports and after school programming and any other enrichment kinds of programs because they have to go home and they have family responsibilities. These colleges are the first step out for them and it's extremely important that they have these opportunities or they won't go. I really believe that all of our research states that first generation kids are not gonna take big leaps in great numbers. They take small leaps. And the reason I'm here talking about that is because in an exchange today with a colleague unprompted, my signature on my VSAC email says my name, my title and it says that I'm first gen. And here is an unsolicited comment from another first gen student. We kind of, we have a shared experience and we find each other. And I'm sure that any of you who are on this call today who are first generation students will find each other. And I didn't know I was a first generation student when I went to school. I didn't know that existed. I just kind of didn't want to stay home, knew I was destined for bigger things like Mary. And so here's an unsolicited comment and we're everywhere. And I think we're gonna lose our first gens if we don't keep their options open and viable. So this is from Travis. He's a student from Williamstown, Vermont. And this was just quick statement to me. He said, also, I have never seen the first gen indicator in an email signature before seeing yours. In the context of VSAC, I'm taking that to mean first generation college student. 23 years ago now, how time flies, I was starting out as a first gen to complete a college degree. After arriving on campus at UVM, I was surprised to find how common it was that others around me were not first generation. And presumably walked around with a different and more complete context for what it meant to pursue a degree. I appreciate the help of those who I suspect took an interest in seeing that this first generation student was successful in their new environment. I expect the first generation college experience has become more challenging since my own time. And the reason I share that is because it is, we are a different beast. We are a different kind of student. And places like the Vermont State Colleges, the Johnson, the Linden, VTC, Castleton, the people that work there, the faculty and staff that work there, they get that. They really, really get that at a level that I have not experienced in this state before. When a student comes in and does not know the ropes and doesn't know the steps they have to take and almost falls on the campus by mistake because by every other measurement, we really shouldn't be there. They take us in and they help us figure out who we are and what our strengths are. And it's a great place to land for a first generation college student. And so minimizing those and taking those away from the pockets of Vermont that they are most needed where 80% of our Vermont students from those areas go to those schools is too vital an asset to have for our state. So I know your work is hard. I'm here to help in any way that I can. You have my support and my dedication to the work ahead and thank you again for your time. I wasn't originally on the list, but here I am. Thank you so much. Yeah, well, thank you, Kathy. Thank you for sharing your story as well. And you made me think my father was a first generation college student in Western Massachusetts and he went to school that was the next town over. And I think he had, although it wasn't in Vermont, it was the same kind of experience of that college that was local to him was not available. It would not have been an option or an opportunity. So that certainly is a point well taken. Thank you. I think we, Sophie had one more. I think maybe I missed. Susan, Susan Rand. Susan, right? Yeah, great, Susan. I see Yasmin had her hand. Sorry, Mike. If I can just jump in with Kathy, I just wanted to respond to your offer of assistance. The VSCS Forward Task Force and I'm gonna be talking about their work in just a little bit. But in case you leave the meeting, I just wanted to say that we are planning a survey to go out and we're really trying to target certain groups for input and VSEC outreach counselors is a group we've identified as providing a really helpful perspective, particularly on the population you've described as first generation. So look for an email soon and I hope you can help us with that. Yeah, thank you. Great, absolutely. Happy to. Hi, Dave Silverman, classmate of mine. You have all the stories on David. We'll talk later about that. I have a few. Hi, Kathy. Hi, Mary. Thanks, Yasmin, for that important point. So Susan, are you on with us? I am. Do you hear me? Yes. Okay. First, I'd like to thank you all for the opportunity to present a brief overview of information and a vision that is shared by the VSCS Thrive Group. Given that my time is short and I don't wanna get off track, I know your schedules are tight. I've chosen to draft and then read from my draft in order to best honor the timeframe that has been provided. And I will make this available to you all afterwards. I believe we're going to send all of our transcripts together following the meeting. We are currently in the final stages of drafting a formal vision document for the Vermont State Colleges that will support what you are hearing in this meeting. Our intent is to share this document with you, the general public and the legislature as encouragement for returning to an appropriate level of funding for the Vermont State statute and also to endorse a re-imagining of the Vermont State Colleges in order to meet the needs and interests of the 21st century, both from a student perspective and a business perspective. We understand that the board has always pushed reasonably to limit tuition increases, while at the same time, the legislature over 40 years has continuously reduced a level of funding from near 50% to its current 17%. As you are well aware, these reductions in funding have necessitated a corresponding increase in tuition to the point where Vermont ranks at or near the very top of the list of most expensive public higher education tuition rates in the country. Huts to course and program offerings coupled with rising tuition have led to the current declines in enrollment, not demographic changes as many think and assume. The only way to reverse this situation is to reinvest and rebuild the colleges so that they are attractive to and affordable for students and offer much more comprehensive and transformative educational opportunities than is currently the case. There is no alternative to reinvesting and reinvigorating these institutions other than convincing the legislator, Lager, the fund of Vermont State Colleges has stipulated in the Vermont State statutes in whole or in substantial part. This will allow for tuition to be reduced to a more reasonable level, thus boosting enrollment. We have a moment in time, probably the only moment we'll ever have to push the legislature to reverse their longstanding defunding of the Vermont State Colleges. Light appears to have recently come on from many legislators that we simply cannot continue to provide more for less and they can see that the BSCS has reached the tipping point. Our organization has and has the means to gather significant numbers, voices to support the board's push for appropriate funding as the state statute requires. And we have the vision and the plan to capitalize on the legislature's commitment. It's a mistake to have the colleges prepare plans assuming a 15 to 25% cut for fiscal year 2022 as NVU strong and others are doing. Some legislators will assume that they have saved the colleges with bridge funding. And if plans are presented to return to inadequate funding following this bridge funding, the assumption will be that this is reasonable and workable. The fact is, as you all know that this is neither reasonable or workable, academic and student support programs have been repeatedly cut while the scope of the administration has grown exponentially, resulting in diminished value for students. The legislature must understand that there is only one choice to ensure high quality, accessible, affordable, higher education through the Vermont State Colleges. That is funding them as the founding state statute requires. It is time to reinvest, reinvigorate and reimagine the system for the 21st century. The likelihood of federal changes that would relieve student debt and or make public colleges either free or heavily subsidized is important to effectively prepare for. Additionally, planning for capitalizing on the current economic downturn, which will certainly redirect many students both from in and out of state, away from existing private liberal arts colleges to less expensive alternatives in the public realm. Serving the broader community audience and effectively planning for this likelihood will enable the VSCS to be positioned to take advantage of these situations. What is needed for revisioning of the VSCS is a true re-imagining of what we can and should do to serve the educational needs of Vermont. Re-imagining that is expansive, comprehensive, that includes the needs of any and all Vermonters, from those who need retraining for employment to those who want to create new, vital, undreamed of careers and businesses in Vermont, to those who now lead the state in search of education that will open a world of opportunities and abilities that they don't even know exist. Truly, we cannot do less and successfully meet our mission. To reach this goal, of course, will require enormous changes, the most important of which is a fundamental revisioning of how we understand and present to our constituents nature, purpose, and design of education across the VSCS. The articulation of that new vision and future will then have to be taken by both leadership and stakeholders to the legislature and to the broader community in order to reverse the last 40 years plus of underfunding of the VSCS, so that the legislature fulfills its statutory responsibility to fund the VSCS in whole or in substantial part. We must conceive of and represent the broad range of what the VSCS can and should do as a vital investment, one that has extraordinary economic, social, and cultural return in our communities and our state. Truly, we cannot do less and successfully meet our mission. It is time for real change. And that real change is to pivot in the direction of anticipating and furthering the effects of significant public pressure for saving the VSCS and legislative awareness of the value of the colleges for the benefit of Vermont, all of Vermont, not just prospective employers. Restricting access to true educational opportunities ensures a less educated population and limits economic development. There is a burning need for a revisioning education for a real 21st century education. However, that model cannot ascribe to old ways of thinking that undermine education by emphasizing job training and workforce development instead. We must educate students to think critically and develop the wide range of knowledge and skills necessary to become future leaders in our ever-changing world. This is what students want and what businesses seek. It is an irresponsible and flawed business model that requires educational institutions to adopt responsibility for workforce training. Education should not be co-opted by businesses who do not plan responsibility for the training and development of their employees. Pivoting from educating students to cater to business desires for cheap labor is shameful and wrong. The VSCS should serve the needs of its students and the citizens of Vermont first and not those of business owners unwilling to take responsibility for training their employees. What's more, further narrowing educational opportunities is counterproductive to the mission of the VSCS. And in doing so, gradually over the past 20 years has resulted in program elimination and accelerated enrollment decline. We believe the VSCS can do better than they have done for the past 20 years of narrowing and limiting, especially now in this national and global climate manifested in massive protests and demonstrations driven largely by young people. It so clearly needs a larger and fuller vision of who we are as a local community as well as a national and international one. Clearly such opportunity and education are not only what our students want but what they need and deserve. The primary emphasis of our vision is that the purpose and responsibility of the VSCS is not solely to produce or train workers for the economic development of our communities but is rather to provide access to and support for the opportunity for our citizens to undertake a fully developed, expansive and transformative education to advance themselves and to serve the economic, social and cultural development of our communities, our region and the world. NVU cannot be focused solely on workforce development because education doesn't equate with creating degree products for business. Its purpose is to educate citizens to be fully developed human beings who make up the vitality of Vermont's communities. All the uniqueness and distinctiveness and individuals and of those communities are among the most important things to cherish, to preserve and to foster as the VSCS mission says for the benefit of Vermont. It is especially important right now with all the turmoil and change going on in the world that our citizens be creative and thinking people in the broadest ways possible. Vermont and Vermonters need robust liberal arts colleges to serve the Western and Southern region of the state as well as the Northern and Eastern regions. The state must reinvest, reinvigorate and reimagine these colleges to meet student interests, future state and national needs and to stimulate the Vermont economy. We must find ways to expand and empower the younger generation not only to remain in the state but to move to the state. Reinvesting in the VSCS and expanding and transforming its educational offerings is the most effective means of achieving this. The entire state of Vermont can afford nothing less or the responsibility for the future of the state will fall squarely on the backs of the small number of larger communities who will inevitably be required to fund social services, fractions and more. There exists at NVU Johnson the designation of the premier public liberal arts college in Vermont which we have yet to capitalize on and at the same time have undermined by cutting liberal arts programs and courses beyond the bone. Work involved by NVU to achieve admittance into COPLAC which as you probably know as the council of public liberal arts colleges should not have been accomplished in vain as it recognizes the university as one of the 30 institutions nationally who are committed to providing superior liberal arts and sciences education to their students. The four year VSCS institutions have previously offered both professional programs and liberal arts programs simultaneously and there is no reason to consider massive structural changes that would reduce educational opportunities when the current situation has clearly been created by inappropriate levels of state funding. In fact, according to a 2020 in-depth study by LinkedIn, there is strong sentiment from nearly 60% of business leaders that soft skills such as creativity, persuasion, collaboration, adaptability, adaptability described as an essential tool for navigating today's ever-changing world. These skills are more important than heart skills. Ryan Jenkins, a millennial and generation seven speaker and generational expert writes in ink, I'll be ink magazine as opposed to ink versus pencil that in today's fast world, hard skills have a short shelf life. Soft skills are more transferable across careers and industries. The future will require workers to be emotionally intelligent. When AI can diagnose a patient's condition with greater accuracy than a doctor, what will become of doctors? According to the Society of Human Resource Management's 2019 State of the Workplace Study, top three missing skills of job applicants are problem-solving, the ability to deal with complexity and ambiguity, and communication skills. Next on the list of top missing skills are trade skills such as carpentry, plumbing, welding, et cetera. Our conversations with business leaders in Vermont indicate an overwhelming preference for the range of skills developed through a liberal arts curriculum, such as critical thinking, flexibility, and emotional intelligence. The most common thread between these conversations is that businesses would prefer to hire well-rounded people and undertake specific training that roles within their company require within their company. Kiplinger, in their 2019 search for the best bet shots at success and satisfaction in the workplace, complete with generous incomes, identifies the best 25 majors for a lucrative career. As you might expect, the list is STEM dominant. For those who don't know what STEM is, it's science, technology, engineering, and math. But in the top 15 are two liberal arts majors, classics, and American studies. Their rationale, the level of critical thinking and research skills is highly marketable in a wide range of industries. What's more, 51% of those with a bachelor's degree in the classics report high levels of meaning in their careers. Businesses are less likely to look to change jobs or careers. Kiplinger cites as an important factor in their ranking, the importance of workers who feel their jobs have a positive impact in the world because having a sense of purpose can be just as important as having a good payday. For these reasons and many more, the BSCS Thrive Group feels strongly that contrary to the NVU strong proposals, both NVU and Castleton should be robust liberal arts universities serving their respective regions. We also feel that VTC should remain a robust technical college for all of Vermont and CCB could become an integrated pathway to four year degrees. Again, to meet these ends, the legislature must fund the BSCS as required by the Vermont statutes. In whole or in substantial part. As such, incorporating cutting edge models such as shape and mesh into reinvigorating and reshaping the local arts curriculum to address student interests as well as those of businesses is important. Shape is a fairly recently designed UK model that stands for social sciences, humanities and arts and film for the people. Mesh is an acronym for media literacy, ethics, sociology and history which evolved out of the need to provide a wider range of soft skills to the existing STEM model of science, technology, engineering and math. Shifting the focus for NVU in particular to that of a workforce training institution at the expense of strong liberal arts programs is unfair to Vermonters and to the future of Vermont. The BSCS can and should the way to growing Vermont's economy by expanding educational opportunities for Vermonters and at the same time attracting students from out of state. Suggesting or going so far as to implement structural changes that deny these expansive educational opportunities is short-sighted and will ultimately weaken Vermont's economy and social fabric. The loss of these opportunities for a liberal arts type education will also significantly impact the ability to attract students from out of state, negatively impacting the SCS revenues and also the growth of young people in the state who come to Vermont to go to college and ultimately stay here to work or start companies. With all of the other changes that would be necessary to pivot to a workforce training institutional model it's difficult to imagine these critical departments being rebuilt simultaneously. Across the country as well as across Vermont student reaction to online learning in the wake of COVID-19 demanded shifts in educational delivery have made it abundantly clear that the future of education for traditional colleges students is not online. Demand for vibrant and expansive campus-based education is not going to disappear and the BSCS can and should be prepared to take advantage of this. The assumption that rural Vermonters only deserve workforce training and not the opportunity to pursue higher levels of thinking and emotional intelligence is discriminatory and serves only to perpetuate low levels of achievement in rural areas of the state. Changes suggested by the NVU strong proposal noting that only seven of 12 on the committee voted for this with five abstaining would take years to successfully implement and to what end. Critical staff and departments have witnessed a mass exodus over the past 12 months from critical student-centered programs such as those offered by the Career and Internship Center and the first-year student experience. It's late in the game to now finally recognize the importance of supporting these student-centered programs and experiences. They're critical to educating our students. Susan, would it be possible for you just to wrap up because we do have limited time and we've gone way past the 20 minutes here? Thank you. I'll be done in three sentences. Entrepreneurship is the root of most businesses in Vermont whether created by real Vermonters or those who have gone to college here and remained following graduation. Let's provide our citizens the opportunity to acquire the range of skills and intellectual curiosity needed to continue to fuel this legacy. It's time to reinvest in Vermont and Vermonters by appropriately funding the VSCS and creating a sustainable model that will yield important wide-reaching rewards for the entire state. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Susan. Yes, thank you, Susan. Thank you, Kathy and thank you, Mary as well. I do want to provide an opportunity for the committee to ask any questions that they might have or any comments that they might have. Just want to make sure I can see everyone. Yeah, Bill? Well, I think I personally appreciate your point of view and part of the strategies that I hear you talking about are the need to have the legislature step up and that's a strategy that this board and many folks have talked about as well. I'm a legislator and I reckon so one of my questions is what kind of outreach has, have you been able to initiate to? Because when we talk about the legislature, the legislature is simply a group of 180 individual legislators. And speaking to, so I just, I can't strongly, I can't encourage you more strongly to reach out and have actual conversations and contact with your members of the house and with your senators. That's what the legislature is. It's not this inanimate, distant group of people or not even seen as a group of people. Sometimes it's just this institution that used to meet at the state house, frankly. We know where we're now, we meet on Zoom. But we are actual individuals and you need and others need who are committed to the Vermont State College of System need to engage at that personal individual level because that's what will transform the legislature's point of view. Bill, I will say that we have done that in the first document that has already been submitted to you. That was also sent to the governor on the administration and to a number of legislators on various committees. And we have since followed up and have been in communication with many of them. But I appreciate what you're saying. And I think we need to continue to have that conversation ongoing. Thank you. And I'm just going to, I'm trying to beat the drum and say sending me a written piece of material is great and it's nothing like having a direct conversation. And that's true for all of my colleagues. Thank you. Could I just add something to Mary's point? This is Richard Moy. We do have a VSCS Thrive Facebook page that has about 10,000 members. And those members are an army of supporters for this position. And we are marshaling those members for exactly that kind of communication with every legislator. We would like to make this a crucial election issue. And we want a statement from every single legislator of what they support for funding for the VSCS. And if we can do that and get every single one of them to come in, we can make a difference, particularly in the primaries and in the general election. There's a sea change coming. And if we are out ahead of it, we will do very well. Thank you. Thank you, Richard. I did see a bill. Do I see a hand from you as well? Yes. I'm also a member of this committee and they answered the question regarding the other Bill Hummels list here. I just wanted the board to know that our group has invited several members of the legislature to meet with us. And they have actually done that on both the western part of the state and the eastern part of the state. So as Richard said, we have 10,000 people who follow our website. And we have actually asked these people and these legislators have come and spoken to us. And we continue to do that. And we invite all our members to participate. That's one of our main functions is that we really honestly believe that it's not the demographics of the state that's driving our problems here at the higher education, but it is the cost of education, higher education. And until we get that across to every legislator, we will not succeed because we keep losing our high school kids. They keep going. And you wonder why we have the demographics we have. It's not because they don't want to stay. They can't stay. And so we really do want the legislature to fund our colleges. But you have to understand that this route that we've been going down that is the demographics as a high school teacher, I talked to lots and lots of kids. And it's just too expensive. Especially as we mentioned the first generation, their parents are telling, why do you want that debt? Just come and work with us. But we know that these kids have higher ambitions. And until we get those kids to stay here and go to college, and the only way to do that is to lower the costs. And I hope the board is doing everything as we are doing to try to commit the legislature to get that tuition down. So it's not the worst in the country, but matches even Mississippi. I mean, Mississippi is one of the four states in the country. And they have a much, much lower tuition than we do. I just don't understand it. And I don't think we should take K through 12 and put K through 12 against higher education. We have to commit education from pre-K to 16 and fund it publicly across the board. And until we do that, Vermont is going to still struggle demographically. It's not the demographics that's causing the problem. It's pure and simple. We are not keeping our kids here. We've got to keep them here. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. I think that's certainly cost is a critical point for everyone, and particularly for first generation students. And you think of a student that is first generation that all of a sudden has some sort of financial emergency, family emergency, personal emergency, that one little event that in our lives maybe is a disruption for an afternoon or an inconvenience could really make that individual student struggle to complete or continue completing school. So a point well taken, certainly. Just wanted to add one last thing. Yeah, Richard. When the board and the chancellor's office take this message to the legislature, you can be sure that we have your back. And the 10,000 people on our Facebook page have ours. And that message will affirm yours in the strongest possible way. 10,000 people is a lot of votes. And when they're all singing the same song, they make a lot of noise. That public response to the proposal to close the colleges got a lot of response. I think if we make a positive argument for funding the VSC and we make it in line with the board and the chancellor's office, that the legislature can't, they can't default to, well, we're doing the best we can. This is all we can give you. I mean, they just can't stick to that with the kind of unified voice that we're really talking about. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Richard. Well, again, I wanna thank Mary, Kathy, Susan, and also Bill and Richard and everyone else from VSCS Thrive. Thank you for coming and speaking with us and sharing your thoughts. Thank you for everything that you've done already to date in terms of your commitment to seeing a sustainable Vermont State College system across the state that's critical to our young people and critical to our workforce and economy as well. So thank you for everything you've already done and your time and your commitment. We certainly wish you well in finishing your work and look forward, more importantly, to working together with you as we continue along and try to execute on some of our shared strategies and certainly our shared goals. So thank you very much. Thank you all. We really appreciate your time and your interest. So Sophie, I think, yeah, go ahead. I would say Linda Olson probably is the person to reach out to you next in terms of the Labor Task Force. Hey, Linda. Hey, how are you? Hi. Hi, Linda. Hi, how are you? Good. I wanted to start by thanking you all for the invitation to speak. And also many of you attended our town hall that we held last month and we appreciate that. We created the Labor Task Force because we believe it was important that all factions of our community be part of the conversation. And Sophie, we wanted to send out a special thank you to you for your willingness to make this a collaborative effort and to listen to all constituencies. The Task Force has representatives from all of the unions. If I can share my screen, we have a little PowerPoint. Great. And I'll just put up the name of the people affiliated with the Task Force. We have people from all campuses. We have unions represented, all the unions represented. And we have people who've been in the VSC for years, decades even, like myself. And Sandy, I think Sandy or Helen might have the most years in the VSC, I'm not sure which. But our goal is to provide innovative and visionary path forward that creates an affordable education for our students so they may graduate debt-free, but also one that enables the colleges to survive and thrive as we go forward. Certainly what VSC thrives folks, we're talking about resonates with what we're doing here. One of the things that we have done in the past to try to survive is to cut faculty and staff. And I think as both Kathy and Mary articulated so eloquently, it takes a village to raise a first-generation college student and to support a first-generation college student. And while the faculty certainly do that, it is also the staff and it might be someone in the academic support center that helps a student get through. It might be a very kind custodian who checks in on people repeatedly. It might be someone at the library. It takes all of us to work together to help our students survive and thrive in college. And it's really important that we don't just focus going forward on cuts to those people who are student-facing, that those people who actually work face-to-face with our students. So I am not gonna be the primary speaker today. We have several speakers lined up and we promise to keep it under 20 minutes. We've already timed it. We are going to go. Our speakers today will be Beth Walsh first, who is the president of the VSC United Professionals and the Director of Career Development, Career and Internship Center at NVU-Johnson. David McGuff, who is an education professor at NVU-Johnson. And internet willing, Alison Lathrop, who is the president of the VSC Faculty Federation and the geology professor at NVU-Ladon. We will also have time at the end for questions. So Beth, if you're there and ready. I'm here, I'm ready, thank you. All right, good. All right, so on Wednesday, June 17th, we held a labor task force kickoff town hall meeting. 76 people showed up. There were staff, faculty, community members, students and administrators. After an initial introduction, we broke off into four small groups to discuss these four topics that are shown on your screen. And for the past month, the task force has spent time reviewing the notes and from each of the groups and condensing what we learned into brief statements and a preliminary plan to move forward. Next, topic one. All right. Topic one was how can we enhance the educational experience across the system? So as we reviewed each of these solutions, please keep in mind that within each solution is the intent and the belief that our institutions rely on the state of Vermont, our communities, our administrations, our students, our faculty and our staff. Each of these stakeholders is essential to our success. So as we looked at the responses that notes from this first group, the solution that we developed was to integrate interdisciplinary, flexible, personalized, community-based academics and student life. Now for topic number two, this topic is how can we restructure the system to emphasize greater efficiency? We all know Vermont is a small state and we understand that funding is limited. So even with a renewed commitment by the Vermont lawmakers, we know that Vermont State Colleges will need to continue to find savings where we can. We've done it for a long time and we have to figure out how to do a little bit more. And with the help of our state, our legislators and our governor in Montpelier, we can make these things happen. When we reviewed the notes from this committee, we developed the solution to unify operations into a single geographically dispersed small university with multiple campuses and centers to reduce duplicate administrative services and lower expenses. Now to topic three, this topic was how can we collaborate as partners instead of competing as rivals? The Vermont State Colleges are a system and we need to work as a system, maintaining our own strengths and cultures while working together as a cohesive institution. So the solution that was developed from these, the notes from this discussion is to construct a unified network that bolsters horizontal and vertical communication and effective collaboration. And then topic number four, this topic is how can we best serve the public good for the emergent era? Higher education is not just a personal good, it's a community good. And when students are free to let their imaginations go places that they never even knew existed, they become entrepreneurs, community leaders, teachers, healthcare providers, scientists, ecologists, sometimes trustees on a board and the list goes on. Affordable public higher ed is a social justice issue and it's vital to the wellbeing of our state and the state needs to do a better job supporting public higher ed by moving from the Vermont model of funding and by dedicating more resources to the colleges and the students. This group felt very strongly that public higher education needs to do a better job making who we are and our place in our state's health and economy more visible. One way we're doing this is through our VSC voices campaign which is modeled after the NPR story core project. And when we looked at the notes from this discussion we came up with this solution, create a public university that expands access through low student cost while maintaining quality designed to foster leadership in key areas to meet Vermont's current and future needs. Those needs include civic engagement. We know how important that is in our state of Vermont. Career preparation, we know how important that is to our students and their families and our communities. Community service, again, so important to us and having a well-centered wellbeing. So those discussions were rich, we learned a lot from them and I'm going to turn it over to David MacGuff for the next part of our presentation. Thank you. David, you're muted. Thank you very much, Sophie. I couldn't find you. It took me a while to find you on the side there. With these four design solutions in mind we initiated a broad scale study of the ongoing design projects that are existing across higher education in the U.S. and globally. And this study produced three broad scale models that we looked at. One is the whole state university model such as in Maine, New Hampshire and North Dakota. The states have incorporated both the research universities and the state college and universities into a single system. And then there's a model where there's a strong central office and duplicative state universities such as Connecticut right now and Georgia and Connecticut are both interesting case studies. Georgia and Connecticut are both trying to incorporate their community colleges. Georgia is centering their community colleges with their residential colleges and Connecticut is working to take 12 independent community colleges and make them into a single system at this point. And the third model is a single state university system which is distinct from the research university system in the state with integrated and unified academics with geographically dispersed and distinct campuses enhanced staff resources to form better connections with students. This is popular places where the population is in steady decline units that are aesthetically or pedagogically distinct and limited state appropriations. And again, geographically dispersed. So we just settled on this third model and these are the design principles established for Mont State University as a unified institution of higher end three campus hubs, eight university wide schools and centers, a university wide communication plan and a mission that expands access through low cost while maintaining quality. And I'm going to show you over the next couple of slides some structures for this. The two primary design goals are strong and adaptive university which will be by adaptive we mean will be flexible enough to face the changes that come in the future. We've heard it said many times that we're preparing students for future jobs that don't exactly actually exist right now. So we have to do that in a way that we in which we can be flexible and adaptive to the coming changes that we face as we've done with COVID-19 and a goal of debt free upon graduation. Next slide please. So this begins to show a draft of a structure for the Vermont State University. What we have here on this slide is a tripartic decision-making structure at the top of the institution. Board of Directors and Advisors, a staff and faculty Senate and Presidents and Central Office. Now in this structure, there's with that tripartic model there's a shared and deliberative decision-making which is a better way to inform macro level decisions of the university of this nature. As we've seen over the past year isolated decision-making in a central office can lead to unpleasant outcomes down the road. We need a faculty Senate to help balance out the front line decisions or the front line information with the back office information so that the decision-making can be more holistic. As well, this design creates campus hubs for the front line operations. Here the design integrates the local community colleges with the regional residential colleges to create a vertical integration of the student experiences. Campus directors with a small administrative staff can run the campuses. The model calls for a robust central office of back, again, back office operations to increase efficiency and help to facilitate supports for the front line operations across the entire system. This will result in a significant reduction of back office administrative operations across each campus which currently are duplicative. Next slide please. This slide shows horizontal integration of academics and student services. We're proposing here to have schools across the campuses. So we're talking about one university with three regional hubs but four or five perhaps academic discipline-based schools which cross those centers. So a student would be able to enter through a community college and travel for a while through, say, a Castleton program and then easily move through a Polytech program or through the Northern program because the academics will be integrated horizontally and the student experience would, I mean, academics would be integrated horizontally and the student experience would be integrated vertically. This way what we're doing is creating a design which is a network instead of isolating the silos. Again, this will result in reduced duplicative processes in the administration of each center. Next slide please. This slide shows as well some horizontal operations for non-discipline specific frontline operations for students. A center for online learning which crosses all of the student experiences and all of the centers. A center for community partnership and lifelong learning and an institute for graduate and advanced professional students. These are not discipline specific the way the schools are and yet they provide direct services to the students. These would be operated, the schools would be operated by deans and the centers would be operated by directors, faculty. Okay, next slide please. This demonstrates the kind of thing we're talking about when we say a network communication system. We need horizontal and vertical communication systems. A Senate provides the opportunity, as I mentioned before, to create a balance of vertical communication from the frontline operations into the macro level decision making. A council of deans and directors would do the same thing and also provide horizontal communication for the students across their campus experiences. A joint faculty and staff council would help to break down silos of communication now and make sure that we can enhance the student experience holistically. And there's some other examples on that page. Next slide please. So this is the essence of the transformative vision and I'm just gonna read these with you. Enhanced access by reducing student costs with the goal of debt free or debt low upon graduation. I'll pause there for a minute and say everybody needs an audacious goal. Some colleges have set out their guaranteeing their students a job upon graduation. Colby College is the latest. It guaranteed each one of their students a job upon graduation. Our audacious goal should be to be debt free upon graduation. This is another point is seamless student enrollment across the system. The third is reduced expenses and duplication by unifying the system into a single university. Assure quality of operations by building a horizontal and vertical communication network and construct academic pathways that are innovative, interdisciplinary and holistic. Four points we talked about four and that can be delivered flexibly personalized in a personalized community format. Now just to the last point to remember that this is a design for operations. As Linda said previously, it is in correspondence with the message you just heard from NVU Thrive is that it needs to have proper state appropriations. Knowing that that's an endeavor that we're all working towards our project has meant to try to come up with a design that would be suitably a fundable. So that's what you're seeing. Next slide, please. And I believe Allison is taking this point. Actually, I'll be taking this point. Allison's internet has gone out again. The joys of living in the Northeast Kingdom. So these are the summary points for the betterment of Vermont. We want to lower student costs, have a seamless enrollment including internal transfer of credits, consolidating administrative services and reducing administrative services and reducing administrative expenses, increasing horizontal and vertical communication for effective collaboration and produce graduates who are ready to meet Vermont's current and future needs for leadership. One thing before we go to questions that I wanna say is it's our intent, the union has been working actively to try to get more state support for the state colleges for a number of years now. And we have had some measure of effect by showing up at the state house to testify in front of Senate or House Education Committees by having our students testify before legislators, talking individually with legislators. This is an ongoing process and this is one element of it. We hope to turn this into a comprehensive proposal or report that we will share with BSC forward. And I have also already indicated to senators Kitchell, Baruch and Ash that we intend to share this proposal or report to the legislative committee that's being formed as well. So we will take time for any questions you might have at this point and I'm gonna stop sharing my screen. Thank you, Linda. Sure. And thank you also to Beth and David as well. So questions from those on the committee or comments from those on the committee? Hey, Megan. Thanks, Mike. And thank you all for that presentation. I really appreciate that you're pushing the envelope around even, I mean, you cited some examples in higher ed where they've really pushed to be student-centric. And I think you're even pushing past that and I commend you for that. I'm curious, as you've talked to others across the system about this, where are you finding support and where are you finding folks that have concerns and resistance to this? And can you give us a little sense of what you're hearing? I can take that one unless someone else wants to answer it. We haven't had other than the town hall meeting which had 76 participants from all different faculty, staff, administrators. We haven't had a lot of, other than union conversations. We haven't had a lot of conversations with others in the system at this point. We haven't had time quite frankly and COVID makes it more difficult to have these conversations. We hope to follow through with more, getting more buy-in by having more town hall meetings which seems quite effective. And we'll see what happens going forward as we develop this proposal in more detail. Can I comment? Please. I would also say we've had plenty of internal conversations and see many pitfalls ourselves. I'll highlight one to you and just be honest about it. There's a resistance to any sort of central office. After the last year, the dangers of an isolated central office with full decision-making power have been come evident. And so there are people in our own institutions who are fearful of that. And yet the models that we've studied do have a strong central office balanced, balanced in a deliberative decision-making process with something like a Senate. So that's a debate point that we still must work through. Yeah, I would agree. And that's why we emphasize strongly the horizontal and vertical communication of this system. There's a disconnect right now. And I'm saying this based on my own opinion that there's not a lot of discussions beyond the board and the chancellor's office level to the campuses beyond just leadership. And it's really important that we all be part of the conversation. We all have something to contribute here. So we're gonna get through this if we work together on this. Beth. Yeah, and we know, I mean, we've had meetings where we got nowhere and then other meetings where it was like, oh my goodness, what happened? We opened up our brains and are able to be creative. We know this isn't an easy plan and it changes every time we talk about it and it's probably going to. We didn't include a whole lot about staffing on each campus and we really need to do that because our staff are the lifeblood of our campuses too. So we know that it's going to be a big lift, a heavy lift, but it was exciting to us to think about having that easy pathway through any of our institutions and not being in competition and working together to make it a stronger institution. And I think our emphasis here is a little bit different than what we've seen, which hasn't worked, frankly. And that is our emphasis isn't on just cutting faculty and staff. That there has to be a reconfiguration of the administration if we're going to survive and thrive as well. There has to be a reconfiguration because it's not working. And I have the figures, but we've had cuts on our campuses since 2011. In faculty, it's almost 27%. In professional staff, it's 25%. In staff, it's almost 33% of our people have been cut or lost through attrition at this point. We can't survive by making more cuts to those constituencies. We have to reconfigure everything from the top down. And so I think it's really important that we have the courage and the vision to do something like that. And when you look at those numbers on that final page of what we provided to you, keep in mind that the last two years are not included and these last two years have been painful for all of our campuses. No, certainly. Other questions or comments from, yeah, Bill. I appreciate your work. And one of the most striking issues that you've identified is the unifying institution across frankly the system, which has been a topic of a great deal of conversation of the identities of individual institutions, each competing for their own existence versus us having a system that's integrated across the entire state and across the system on behalf of all Vermont students who are part of the VSCS. Talk some more about actually achieving that because I think there's some of us who are willing to share that vision and frankly, there's a lot of history that moves in the direction of staying in individual silos of competition. David, you wanna take this one? Well, we should all realize that the future comes from the present. So we have to step from where we are now to the next place. But we also have probably, hopefully come to the point where we realize that tweaking will no longer work. We need transformation. What we really should think about is that we are entering the fifth epic of localized public higher education here. Johnson, Castleton, the school at Randolph, they started as grammar schools. Johnson in the cobbler shop donated by the local shoemaker. These are the community-centered places where the local folks want their kids educated. When the grammar school model failed, then they moved on to become normal schools. That must have been a very difficult transition. That lasted for decades until the state regulations changed and the normal schools then failed and they had to become two-year teachers colleges which means they had to become licensed. That must have been a very difficult transformation. That lasted for a few years until they became four-year colleges to take advantage of the market from the GI Bill. That must have been a huge difficult transformation because they needed to change their faculty and their faculty qualifications. Then later colleges slowly, starting with Johnson, moved into graduate programming which was also a very significant transformation affecting faculty and all of operations. We're now at that kind of transformational point. If we take a 180-year perspective, we now know that we're at the right place. We need a large-scale whole system change and this is a model that tries to achieve that. It's also not an unprecedented model. As we mentioned, a few institutions that are moving in this sort of direction and our final report will include some more information about that. As Linda has said multiple times, we're all in this together. Nobody wants to operate under fear, terror, or distrust. Let's see if we can move together as a team. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, David. I'm gonna go to Dylan and then I think Pat Moltenhouse has her hand up. Dylan? Yeah, I just, I wanna thank you for bringing this forward. I've been part of the BSC Forward Task Force this summer and I'm reminded of the fact I'm a big history person so I just keep thinking about the constitutional convention and the fact that there were these long summer sessions, multiple rooms going at once with lots of ideas coming forward and certainly I appreciate this. I view it, there was a Virginia plan, a New York plan, a New Jersey plan during the constitutional deliberations. No one was sure of where we would land and we ended up with a blend of some of them with different concepts. So I think it's helpful that you're bringing this forward and look forward to seeing your work continue and certainly I'm looking forward to thinking about some of these concepts with the BSC Forward Task Force and I know Yasmeem will be speaking about that shortly but I think that we're open to good ideas and at the same time I keep thinking about what does the next year hold and how difficult will the circumstances be more broadly than just Vermont but in other states and in our country and our world. So thank you for your good work and for being partners in this, I appreciate it. Thanks Dylan. Hey Pat, do you have your hands up? Yeah, my questions are a couple more basic. Number one, is there a chance we could get a copy of the PowerPoint presentation that you gave Linda? I was trying to take notes but couldn't write fast enough. Number two, I did note on that PowerPoint the labor task force that was specifically referenced. I see one representative from Vermont Tech listed. No PAT, SUP, no VSEA rep on that. How are you getting input from those groups as it pertains to Vermont Tech? Sorry to be so parochial but... Yeah, we started with more members and they dwindled a little bit over this summer but I think John Diebold who is our representative from VTC has been really good at reaching out to folks. Anybody is welcome to be on this committee. We wanted a streamlined action committee just so that we could get some work done. So we tried to have representatives from each of the units, initially each of the campuses as well and there are people who still are participating in this and maybe John if he's on could speak to this more. I don't know if he's on right now. He was on. Just as a side note, I just ran into Nate Ball who said he wasn't really even aware of the task force and he heads up the PAT SUP for the system. So John, I don't know if you've talked to Nate and we can do this offline but I was just asking what that plan was. So if you and I wanna chat or you and Nate wanna chat offline, John, that would be great but also VSEA too, so sorry. Well, what we started with was the town hall. Our goal is as Linda said was to... My goal is always to have six or eight people on a committee and you get beyond that and things start bottlenecking. So what we did when we started with the town hall model everybody was invited across across the unions and across the campuses. So we collaborated with that. We had four different breakout groups we collected data from those and then those, each, those four groups were then fed into this task force and the task force then was was responsible for developing the solutions and developing this model. It's not in any intentional way to limit any access to this task force at all. I can relate to nimbleness in the committees, John. Thank you. And I don't know, Sarah, Sandy, you're probably reaching out to members here. I don't know, but I'm just hoping that all the college's voices are heard. All the voices are being heard. Is that what you wanna add to that? Yeah, I just wanted to repeat what John said that we did reach out to all of our members to attend to the town hall kickoff. And to be honest, that happened on the 17th of June. It's now July 23rd. We've been meeting basically weekly, sometimes more than once a week, but honestly, we just finished this up yesterday. I mean, it really, we've been working on it, but people have had a chance to give us input, but it has been a small group of folks working on it. And people can continue to give us input. This is a draft, this is a proposal in motion. So Nate is more than happy to, I'm more than happy to listen to what Nate has to say or anyone else, and we would welcome them to our committee meetings as well. Thank you. Sandy, do you have a question? Just wanna put my face out there so you can see who I was, but I do know also that when you mentioned committee or task force or whatever to some of the people on campuses, they just kind of roll their eyes and say, let me know what you need to know and they just don't wanna sit there. But we've done a lot in the last few weeks and I think it's gone very well. But when we talk about the future of the colleges, I just wanna let you know that my nine-year-old granddaughter started writing a letter to Governor Scotch saying, please keep these colleges open because I wanna make sure when I graduate in nine more years that I can go to Johnson. So we still, we have the younger generation too, really fighting for us, so I just wanna let you know that. Don't leave them hanging. We need them there. Thank you, Sandy. You're welcome. Yeah. We have other members on the committee. Does anyone else wanna add anything that we left out? Any other questions from the committee or comments? Linda, I assume no one else raised their hand on the task force. Not that I saw, no. Yes, maybe you wanna- Yeah, if I could just jump in. I don't know if you're sticking around, Linda, but I've already gotten questions from the forward task force. Can we get a copy of those slides? I'll send it to you and Sophie. Great, thanks. Well, great. Well, Linda and Beth and David and John and Sandy and everyone else on the task force, thank you very much for spending some time with us and running through that presentation. And also thank you for all your hard work over the last number of weeks and months to come up with really bold and interesting and innovative proposal to submit to us. I think as Dylan alluded to, probably in our own heads, we had some version of what you're talking about or some of us did and how we can continue to work together and find a path forward, I think will be critical. So we look forward to today's conversation but we look forward to keeping the conversation going and our working together. Thank you. Thank you again for the invitation. Well, great. Well, Sophie, how do you, do you think we need a break for anybody on the board or should we keep plugging along? I guess that's up to the folks on the board if they wanna indicate if they want to break or if they wanna just keep moving forward. How about we keep moving forward and those that need a break can take a personal break? Yes. So next is an update from the VSCS forward task force. So again, this is a system-wide task force that the board created as you said, Mike. I think it was a couple of months ago and they've also been meeting. They do have representatives on the task force from each of the full-time employee unions and representation from across the system. But Yasmin is the chair so I will let her move forward with us. Sure. And I think like the labor task force you just heard from, we've been meeting, it's been a short timeframe and being on Zoom is challenging. So you may not have seen in your emails a memo from our task force, but I'm going to do my best to kind of give you the overview of the work that we've been doing and then cover in detail what I would say we are at a stage of ideas under consideration and our next step is very much in line with I think what the labor task force has done. They've put forward a single model as a proposal. The plan right now for our task force is based on the ideas we've already surfaced and another discussion or two we still need to have is to look at potential different models as a way to kind of test our thinking. But I want to start out, many members of the task force are probably on right now. I can't see everybody on screen, but I invite them to jump in at any point. A big thank you to them. They're this is a group that's carrying the board's charge to look at the system level questions, right? And as Sophie said, they're a diverse group really balanced across roles and institutions, but still a small group as Linda Olson said, they're streamlined as an action committee. And I think the forward task force very much sees itself that way and is kind of carrying that responsibility of the charge the board has given them. Everyone is wearing multiple hats on this task force. And I will say, I think everyone is wearing those hats with grace, they're bringing their own experiences. They're bringing experience of family, teaching experiences that they've had, and all of these things are, regardless of what their formal job title hat or union membership hat might be. So the group, the memo that you have kind of covers our process and covers some, a summary of the ground we've talked about up to yesterday. And I think it's important, you've heard it already this morning. So I'm not gonna take a lot of time, but I think this task force as well feels there are several points that just have to continue to get made the years of underfunding and where that's left the system at this moment. Another point that I don't think we've heard today, but that our task force has surfaced is for the conversation for Vermont, public spending, how that's distributed for public education and what the difference is between K-12 spending per student and post-secondary spending, education and training of any kind. A third point that is a concern for this task force is that our legislative leaders right now have assured funding for one year. Most of the ideas, including I think the proposal you just heard from the labor task force are the kinds of changes that take multiple years to achieve. That is a very real tension and challenge that we have ahead of us. And then finally, just a word about the scope of change that the forward task force is understanding we have in a way and to put it into context again, is to just think about the funding the VSC receives versus the average funding across New England. And to think about, is it living within the existing state appropriation? And if we were to do that in the way that other states are living within that appropriation would mean a serious shrinking of our system. So the task force realizes that between our existing appropriation and that increase is a lot of different potential ways to go forward. So that's the current situation. Our task force has started to articulate guiding values. I could imagine this is a document work in progress, but I think it's important, particularly as we start to talk about the choices that will go into a recommendation and the choices the board makes that were clear about those values. So the task force has put some of those out there in the document. I'll just name a few. Being bold and visionary, seeking input from stakeholders, focusing on access and affordability, being innovative and responsive and really looking to the future five, 10 years ahead. So those are some of our values. I wanna say a little bit more about stakeholder input because you've heard quite a bit already today. These two groups have been two of the groups that have been providing input to our task force, the town hall meetings. Many of our members participated in those town hall meetings and our members have also had, and I mean, they've just been inundated with information, but it's all of the input that the Long Range Planning Committee originally solicited last summer and fall as part of the Secure the Future process. Those notes are part of the work that our task force has looked at and thought about as well as input from several other groups. So our next steps on input, I think I mentioned this very briefly before is to really target input to get more in stakeholder input from employers, to get more input from the perspective of new and future students that eighth grader out there and other students. And so again, I spoke to the VSEC counselors will be providing us with some input that way. So that'll be important as well as our existing faculty and staff. So I'm gonna pause there in case there are any questions just generally about process, but that's essentially the ground we've covered, background and I wanna talk a little bit now about kind of the ideas areas that we're discussing and some of the potential ideas that the task force is considering. But I'll just pause and again, if anyone else from our group wants to join in. Okay, so again, these are really ideas to date. We've had topical conversations and the first one in your memo is around accessibility. And so accessibility, we've talked about what does that mean in many different ways. So we've surfaced some ideas about programming. I'm gonna highlight a few here, not in any particular order, but to just give you a flavor, significantly expanding investing in telepresence like options, more flexible delivery, prioritizing state resources. Again, that's a recommendation that perhaps is out of immediate control of this board, but is perhaps something to go forward to the select committee, creating a center for continuing education for the entire system. And then recognizing the challenges right now with our staffing as we think about shifting to any of these different models to achieve better accessibility. So that's on accessibility. We've talked about governance. So you've just heard a proposal that essentially would shift to a model of a single system, institutional accreditation and governance, some of the things, the ideas that our task force has talked about. And I will say we've had a focused conversation with the University of Maine system and with our board chair, church about the chancellor's office and the functions of the chancellor's office. So with these focused, or with our conversations on governance, we're recognizing different colleges in the system have different levels of symbiosis, their costs and benefits associated with centralized governance and the communication. Certainly a challenge that needs to, we need to figure out how to achieve that in anything that we're doing in a different model. Specific to some of our centralized costs with the IT department, we've talked about that as being, representing a fair amount of costs and how to consider staffing because we have it both locally at the colleges and in the system office and decision-making again. I think you heard that in the other proposal. We need to think about that. And again, these are ideas. Duplication, we've spent a fair amount of time talking about the concept of duplicated effort, both administrative effort, academic programs, functional areas and we've tried to look at that very broadly. So some of the ideas there that we've looked at are things like single degree majors or programs across the system, single general education program, really increasing our two plus two in the pathways process, increasing, enhancing online degree completion programs, analyzing programs for consolidation and again, sort of analyzing functional areas in non-academic areas. And that represents quite a bit of operations and trying to understand what would be the right model in each of those. That's everything from admissions recruitment, alumni relations, grants, contracts, communication PR. And finally, affordability is not a topic that we've gotten to yet, but that's next on our list to think about ways to address affordability specifically. So again, I've named now quite a few ideas. I think as we move into looking at those ideas, they will come together in different ways with different models. But if there are any questions or thoughts immediately or things that I didn't manage to say that are in the memo that you have questions about. Any questions or yeah, Lynn? Yeah, thank you, Yasmeen. I'm not sure if I sent you a copy of this, but I sent it to the board members and to Sophie. Demographics is a word that I think glazes people's eyes over, we have lost 25 to 30,000 students since 1997. Those are students that just don't exist anymore. Never existed. So there is a decline in the number of students that are available. But I also sent a survey done by the BFA's newspaper, student newspaper that was from 2014 that I saved. And I know some of the presidents have seen it because when I have them come to St. Albans, we did talk about this and showed this graph to them, 43% of the students that were seniors in high school in 2014 went to CCD was in Vermont. These are the survey of the students going to school in Vermont. 19% went to three of our residential colleges. They didn't even mention London. And then there was like 12% UVM and a little bit of St. Mike's and so on. The issue is that 43% is more than twice as many as go to our residential colleges. And I suspect right now, we're looking at students who are doing more than that. This was just one single high school graph, bar graph. But VSEC does do surveys of graduates. Maybe it's a year later when they're out, but I know they've been doing them for years. We don't have a research arm. Has VSEC got any information that we can look at? Because what I see is the students are voting with their feet. And right now in this situation, when I ask people about getting, taking advantage of the McClure money and the scholarship for one course, I have a lot of kids telling me that, they're just gonna go to CCB. They're not gonna spend 40,000, 50, whatever to go to some other school where they can't have a real college experience. That's not gonna be there. And they're not gonna go and take on debt. And they can stay home. And there's a whole lot of reasons why they might start with that. So I think that's even gonna be more pronounced this fall maybe in ways that we don't even really know. But these are our customers. And we can sit here and come up with all kinds of ideas. But if our customers have been and are going to one specific kind of school, you know, we should be aware of that and we should be really concentrating on that because some of these students will never go to residential colleges. I mean, Dylan very proudly tells you who went to three or four sites of CCB before he finally ended up going to Johnson. I don't think he ever lived on any campus. Very proudly and accomplished a great deal. Do we have this? Do we have the second committee? We don't but I, you know, one new piece of data that I don't know how publicly VSEC has come out with it yet but they have looked specifically at two year enrollments from the class of 2012 is the one that they've been doing the most analysis on. And I just have to brag a little bit. What they're finding is that they're comparing outcomes for students who go to two year programs in Vermont. So permit CCB and Vermont Tech versus going out of state and the outcomes for the students here in Vermont are much stronger. So I think that's a real accomplishment and shows the value of our programs there but getting that kind of holistic look, I don't know Lynn that they have that kind of data specifically, you know, it's a good question. Part of it is when does a student move on to college? And sometimes it's not immediately after high school. So the tracking becomes a little more challenging. Any other questions for Yasmeen? I see, I think Adam, did you have your hand up? I did, yes. Hey Yasmeen, thank you for that presentation. In helping determine some of the next steps for the system, how are we, what work are we doing to understand what the needs of the state are? We heard some comments earlier about not just turning out workers and widgets. And how do we balance understanding what employers need, not just sort of factory widget employees, but just employers across the state? What are the in-demand jobs? What are those high wage, high growth opportunities? And how do we feed that into the system that we're now trying to redesign? That's a, it's a great question, Adam. And I'm, oh, you have more? Oh, no, you only have one answer. Big question. Oh, what, big question. You know, I will say that our task force has kind of a running place that people are sharing links to reports and information resources. And I'm trying to remember which entity was working with Nebbi, but they put out a report that kind of shows in-demand fields and things like that. So that, I think that it's very much on our minds how we do an employer engagement stakeholder survey. I mean, I think we've got really strong people like Tiffany Cuny at CCV to help us get that survey out. But if there's other ways you think we should be incorporating input that that would be great to hear. I think that that's great. As long as that's feeding into the system. That was really my question. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, Adam. I kind of have a question. Yes, Bill. Yeah. Yes, I mean, can you give us a sense of timeframe for coming to proposals? Because as I'm sitting here listening, I'm thinking, okay, so we have the Vermont thrive. We have the labor coalition proposals. We have the Vermont forward task force. And then we have a select committee that's being established. And how does this all fit together? And in terms of, you know, to have the best proposals in the world at a timeframe that far beyond when decisions actually get made won't be that useful. So I'm eager to say, hey, you know? Yeah. Good question. Good question, Bill. Yeah. So, you know, you as the board have charged us to come back with something by mid-August. I'm certainly happy to come back. It's not far away. It's not far away. I know I'm running in a primary on August 11th just not far away. Yeah. So our goal as a task force is to have some draft recommendations for you at that point. I think the challenges, you've also heard people want input in these things, right? And I think in some ways, maybe the best that we're doing right now is there is a little bit of parallel effort. But I, I mean, this is me speaking personally. I'm grateful to all of those efforts. And I think sort of, they will sort of, I hope all percolate together into recommendations. But I think the task force right now is trying very hard to kind of build up to its recommendations and making sure that it's doing the right kind of checking and with stakeholders at the right moment. So we've got a little ways to go on that. But we're aware we owe you a recommendation very soon. Okay. Can I just say that I'm acutely aware of sometimes we in the legislature have been given a deadline that seems not possible, such as have your CRF proposals to the appropriations committee in X number of days. And it's like, you must be kidding. But it takes some leadership to actually move groups of people forward to a deadline because without the deadline, it may not happen. So I appreciate you're working that way. Yeah. Well, and I just want to say I'm grateful. We do have an external facilitator working with us and that is a tremendous help and also kind of helps us check our own perspectives. So thank you, Elise. I know you're listening. Oh, great. Any other questions for Yasmeen? Well, thank you Yasmeen for all your work and chairing the committee and everyone that's on it as well. Yeah. We look forward to mid-August. We'll be here in a minute. In a minute and a half, yeah. So, Sophie, I think we're at the point where we are gonna hear from our individual institutions and the presidents. Right, we have presidents and then a chancellor update. I'm thinking it may make more sense to me just to quickly, because I think it flows from what Yasmeen was just talking about and Bill do the chancellor update, which is the select committee that's being created by the legislature. That is just beginning to get going. Some of the initial deadlines have been missed, but they are looking to move forward, I think expeditiously with that. So, and I've also understood that the current deadline in the legislation is for an 18 month process with a final report in December of 2021. My understanding is that the leadership that is certainly in the house is interested in shrinking that timeline when they come back in August to perhaps having it be completed by next summer. Understanding there's a concern about the length of time for which the VSC will need bridge funding. Again, recognition that these changes don't happen swiftly. So, for example, I know with the VSCS forward task force when they heard from the folks in Maine, they just were approved for a single accreditation across their seven institutions. They did a lot of groundwork leading up to that and they have a lot of work ahead of them. So, it doesn't happen instantaneously. You don't realize savings, instantaneously it's a long process to do that. So, the committee's made up of 15 individuals. I don't have all the names as yet, but I believe they're close. Some of them involve, so I have a spider jumping around my computer and I'm not a spider fan. So, I'm just keeping an eye on it. It's like jumping. I don't like jumping spiders. Anyway, I'll try and ignore it. Oh, it's now on my computer. Okay. So, there are still some representatives to be selected, but we've chosen the folks from the VSC to be on the committee. So, one is the chancellor, one is a board of trustees. Megan Kluver is going to be serving in that role. We have a faculty member, Dan Daly, from NVU-Linden. We have a student, Devin Tingle from VTC. We have an alum or donor, who will be Jeff Weld from Castleton. And then we have a campus administrator and President Joyce Judy of CCV will be the administrator. So, the campus administrator that will be serving. An RFP went out. The select committee will be working with an external consulting firm. The proposals were due on Friday of last week. So, I imagine they will be moving swiftly to review the proposals. The first meeting of that group is scheduled to occur by the end of August. But again, there's nothing to prevent the group from meeting sooner if it moves forward more rapidly than that. So, that's just sort of an update in terms of another parallel process that's going on here in response to Bill's question and then all the other pieces that people are working on. Other members on that. There's the UVM president, Suresh Garamela, a trustee from UVM, Briah Alpert. A designee from the ACCD, what's that, Commerce and Development. They've selected Heather Boucher from the Agency of Education because it looked like in the legislation they forgot to include the Agency of Education. So, I think they worked around that by having someone from the Agency of Education be the nominee. And Sarah Buxton, a workforce development is the designee for the Department of Labor. So, those are the folks that are, and then going back to the other question that Lynn had, VSEC's Scott Giles will also be on that select committee. And then we're missing a couple of community members, a representative from the House of Representatives and the Senate. So, those are the four positions I don't know about as yet. And Sophie, just the same question that Bill asked, but just remind us what the timeframe is for that task force as well. So, right now in the legislation they have a report due in December of this year, June of next year and December of next year. But my understanding is that there's concern that that is too long a timeframe and that my understanding is there will be an effort when the legislators return in August to reduce the timeframe. And again, I don't know what will happen, but my understanding is they're looking to have a final report by next summer. So, I don't know if that's where it will land up, but again, the concern was having an 18 month process really extended the amount of time that the VSEC would need bridge funding. If it was, if this select committee came up with significant proposals that required restructuring above and beyond of what we might be thinking about doing. All right, so if the presidents want to share their update, so let's start with Elaine. I don't see everybody on here, but if Elaine is on, there's Elaine for NVU. Hello, hi. So what we have done, first of all, I'd like to thank, thank you for having us present just some updates as to where the NVU strong committee is at this point. And a particular thank you to the chair P-check in a conversation that we had by telephone, we were kind of talking about what would be the most helpful to the board as an update. And I had mentioned that I had already given kind of an introductory update since the committee had finished. And he mentioned that it would be nice to hear from some representatives of the committee. So we did invite to speak to you today. And I have been really appreciative that they have hung in for this whole entire meeting, waiting for the opportunity to have a chance to share their thinking with you. I also, before I introduce them, I wanna say that I'm very excited to see so many great minds working on this problem together. I think that with everybody working together, we can only advance the VSC and it was just very nice to hear from all committees and to see the relationship among the committees. For instance, David McGoff as part of the labor task force was also serving as part of NVU strong. Nolan Atkins was the chair of NVU strong is also serving on the VSCS committee. So there's a really lovely kind of interrelationship between the committees. And I hope that we can keep that kind of connection moving forward. So anyway, at this time, I'm really excited to introduce two amazing community members to you who gave a lot of time and continue to give a lot of time working on the behalf of NVU. We have Catherine Sims with us, representing the N.E.K. and Beth Boy, representing Memorial County. And Beth is going to actually start the presentation. Catherine will follow and then I will update the committee briefly on a few things that have transpired since the committee disbanded. Great. Welcome, Beth. Thank you. Thank you, President Collins. Thanks to everyone for inviting us today. It was a privilege to serve on the NVU strong advisory committee. I live in Johnson. I'm very active in my community. I'm a big advocate for NVU and all it brings. And I really felt it was essential to serve on the committee to ensure that NVU not just stay open but the NVU thrive. So I want to take a moment to focus on why NVU is important in the strategic planning for the state. NVU is social justice. It provides critical access to higher education in Northern Vermont. 70% of NVU students are Vermonters. 76% of NVU online students are Vermonters. Nearly half of the NVU students are first in family to attend college. And I know that's been a point that has been made over and over again and obviously a very critical point. NVU serves the highest number of Pell eligible students in the state college system at 46%. And we know that if NVU is not open and available to these students that they're more likely to not attend college. Internet reception is spotty in many places as seen earlier. So online really isn't an option. And some of the students simply won't go to school without NVU as an option for them. Additionally, NVU's total economic impact is $113 million and the more Northern tier of Vermont. I know this is a topic that has come up a number of times but it's a really critical topic for all of us who live in both the Northeast Kingdom and the Northern tier. So I respectfully request that the board focus on advocating and promoting the system to not only the legislators within the board but more widely in the legislative body pointing out the great and critical return on investment for our state. The ask is that everyone be our champion. Bill, I heard you earlier about having one-on-one conversations. I can tell you I certainly am a number of people are as well. I think that we need to approach this from all angles and the ask is that the board really represent the state college system and fight for the system as well. So on the advisory committee, the committee was made up equally of NVU stakeholders. There were four faculty, four students, four staff members and four community members. And within that representation, there were both alumni as well as community leaders and each campus was campus location. Johnson and Lyndon were equally represented. The NVU wanted the advisory committee to be both inclusive and transparent. The public and NVU community were asked to make nominations for the committee. The community was also asked to make comments and suggestions on how NVU should re-envision itself for the future by using its website, social media channels, emails, local media to collect this information. On the NVU website, you can find 200 plus comments and suggestions submitted by the public, all of which were shared with the committee members and were reviewed by the committee. Information data, materials and other resources shared with the strong advisory committee were also included on the website, including the meeting minutes. The NVU strong advisory committee kept an intense schedule. I can attest to, I was working a full-time job and we had a pretty intense schedule. We met from May 12th to June 4th, typically twice a week for 90 minutes to two hours. There was a tremendous amount of information shared with us with much Q and A. We also broke into subgroups to work through the topics and we worked in between meetings as well. So there was a lot of night hours put in. Public updates via Zoom were provided on May 28th and also members of the committee publicly represented the recommendations via Zoom on June 18th. Katherine, do you wanna jump in? Yeah, thanks Beth for that introduction into our work. I'm Katherine Sims. I'm the director of the Northeast Kingdom Collaborative and I'm also a mother raising two kids right here in Craftsbury and represented the kind of northern part of the Northeast Kingdom on our task force as a community member. And I was really honored to be a part of that team working to help reimagine a sustainable future for NVU. So Beth shared a little bit about the work of the committee and I'm gonna shift a little bit to focus on our recommendations to the task force. It became pretty clear to us on the advisory committee that while NVU has really important work to do to right size itself and create sustainability, that there is only so much work that an individual institution can do on its own and that much work needs to happen at the systems level. So our committee is looking to the board of trustees and the chancellor's office to provide leadership to collectively right size and re-envision the entire Vermont State College system. And I'll take a minute here to walk through some of our recommendations and wanna start by providing a little bit of context about the guiding principles behind our committee's recommendation. And so they include being learner centric, striving to meet workforce needs while also continuing to offer the critical liberal arts education. Focus on a credential mix that is stackable and promotes lifelong learning. Offering modalities that are accessible to all learners and addressing affordability, reducing the overall cost of earning a degree. And so therefore our committee recommend to the VSCS forward task force that it consider eliminating competition across the Vermont State College system institution to create more seamless barrier free pathways for all students. To create a system-wide core curriculum and competencies to give students flexibility and to assist with timely degree completion. To consider moving to a year round academic calendar to enable accelerated degree programs. Initiate conversations with the three unions regarding employee wage and benefit issues. Explore the possible benefits of moving towards a one accreditation model. Adjust and advocate for an appropriations formula to address the higher fixed costs of MVU because it operates two campuses. Consider decentralizing and reducing the size of the office of the chancellor. Advocate for an end to VSC portability. Vermont is one of the few remaining states that does not keep its VSC grants in state. And we respectfully request that the VSC grant be given to Vermonters who choose to stay in Vermont to pursue their degrees. And we also ask that the task force consider releasing a statement acknowledging the importance of the Vermont State College system. Recognizing that the state colleges fulfill the critical mission of ensuring access to higher education for all Vermonters. And so I'm gonna pass it back to Beth here. Beth, you're muted. Thank you. The MVU strong advisory committee made a number of recommendations which you can review on the website, on the MVU website. I just wanna touch on a few key highlights. MVU remains rooted in its mission to provide professional degrees with a liberal arts core. There was a recommendation of a learning and working community. The committee developed the learning and working community vision which supports lifelong learning and workforce development needs, including the soft skills liberal arts brings. It does so via formal partnerships with industry sectors to create flexible, stackable credits to meet workforce needs while also providing on and off ramps to credit-bearing courses to earn a degree. Partners will provide hands-on experience through different pathways such as insurance tips, cooperative learning, fieldwork, practicums. The goal of, for this, sorry, I'm a little tongue-tied, I'll slow down. The goal would be for these to be paid work, helping reduce the cost of pursuing a college education, which again, that's another area we keep hearing over and over again. The cost of an education to our students is practically too high. So I just wanna point that out too. An exciting aspect of this is some of the partners we would collaborate with would work on campus to further strengthen the student pathway while also taking advantage of campus services and reducing the college system and NBU's overall footprint. Other recommendations include moving to a year-round calendar to help create accelerated degree programs, more flexibility for the students, and also critical to the learning and working community as it better meets the needs of the industry partners. Additionally, identify a minimum for four athletic program closures across both campuses. We heard from the athletic programs themselves and that was something that they suggested we might look at. So we did also include that recommendation. Not surprisingly, academics was definitely one of the most difficult areas for discussion. We agreed that the academic programs and courses should be reviewed and irrelevant, that they should align with the working and learning community, including high impact work experience. While we discussed academic program review, we could not come to a unanimous agreement. You heard earlier about the abstentions from the vote that is what this reference is, and then we left it to the executive team to determine the process for the program review. We also explored having CCV relocate onto NBU's campuses and in general, percing a new level of collaboration with CCV. Catherine? Great, and I'm just gonna sort of summarize and look ahead here. So I think we all understand that while NBU will continue to provide a liberal arts education, it can no longer be all things to all people. We need to make sure that each institution within the state college system is distinctive while also supporting access and affordability and maintaining sustainability. Our committee is really excited about the work NBU is doing to distinguish itself and create a model for the future. We heard from students, community leaders, businesses alike that they are energized by NBU's learning and working community vision. NBU is focused on educating people to be engaged critical thinkers. Place-based learning opportunities won't diminish student learning, they will enhance it. Students will be part of a vibrant ecosystem on campus where they will receive well-rounded education while developing deep connections to place, building critical leadership skills and obtaining clear pathways to future employment all at an affordable cost. We celebrate that NBU plays a vital role in providing high quality affordable education. And in addition, we want to highlight that NBU plays a critical role in the viability of Northern Vermont. It is key to providing access to higher education, creating our future workforce and the quality of life in the area, both culturally and economically. An investment in NBU is an investment in the future of our students and the future of our rural community. And I want to respectfully remind the board that Northern Vermont University has just finished its second year of a five-year unification plan. It has achieved the benchmark set out for it in its unification process and there was and is still more work to be done. The threat of closure twice within one year has done harm. Jim Page, the former chancellor of the University of Maine's college system was hired by legislators to study the Vermont State College system and I want to emphasize and share with you one of his key messages. NBU needs meaningful messages of support at this time and it needs time to continue with that unification process. We ask that the board of trustees step up its communications with the legislature to request additional bridge funding to ensure that NBU and its sister institutions have the time and the resources they need to collaboratively transform themselves during this critical time. So we thank you for our opportunity and time with you today to share our recommendations for the task force and for your advocacy for the state college system and the vital role that it plays in providing access to high quality and affordable education for Vermont. And I think I'm handing it back to Elaine. Right, I'll just give a very quick kind of update to the board and this is also to you Beth and Catherine because I want to make sure that you understand that we've taken your work seriously and we are continuing to move it forward. So here's where we are right now. We are in the process of writing EDA grants both to expand the array of stackable credentials that NBU offers and also to create good nursing lab spaces at Linden to accommodate the program that we have with VTC. We are in preliminary discussions of how to integrate the learning and working concept across all four years of the undergraduate experience. And it's been really interesting to me to hear the kind of affirmation for liberal arts. One model that we're looking at is exactly how a liberal arts institution was able to integrate these kinds of concepts across a liberal arts curriculum. So we're looking very carefully at that and then some others that have done it in more of a professional arena, professional program arena. We have expanded the pathways for students to take early college courses online that has been completed. We have received preliminary legal guidance regarding the lease of space. This has to do with a footprint and minimizing footprint. We're in current conversations with businesses and we have contacted these businesses and are in the process of setting up visits so they can come and see the campus spaces. Through our development efforts, we're identifying best fit projects with our donors. We're working hard right now to get ready for fall 2020 by increasing the telepresence technology for academic use. So in our classrooms, we've identified 100 classrooms where we are in the process of installing webcams and tablets. We have already done so in 35 of the most used spaces and we're continuing to work on the rest, prioritizing by both use and specialty. You heard about the four athletic programs eliminated. Those have been eliminated. We have contacted the students that has been completed. And as far as some of the other recommendations that Catherine gave the summary, they're now currently being discussed in the SC Forward and we look forward to continuing the work as soon as we get that work finished in that arena. So at this point, I'll just open it up to questions for any one of us. Any questions from the committee or any comments from the committee for Beth Catherine or President Collins? I don't think I see any. I just wanna make sure I'm not missing anyone. But I do wanna say, oh, Bill. Well, I'll just say, I'll just take a head on. We have heard today some people criticizing proposals that would quote, give up liberal arts and turn NBU or other institutions into training for businesses. And I hear that it's not necessarily, it's not a binary choice of liberal arts versus further engagement and active engagement with the business community as well. So I think it's important to have that issue talked about, addressed so that it's not something that's, and I hear you talking some about that, but clearly that's a point of some disagreement or tension with some folks. And I think it's important to engage that. I think it's a matter of additional communication because we never intended to take away the mission. The mission of both Johnson and Lyndon remain the same. The mission of NBU remains the same. The piece that has pivoted is the vision into a little bit more of a tighter student-centered focus for involving or integrating career goals and that whole notion of how to be a better citizen within a working community as a student moves forward through their curriculum. So that's what we're working for. I just encourage for the continuing dialogue and conversation. Thank you. Catherine, you have something to say. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I found it really powerful that we heard some testimony from students who were articulating that part of the reason that they chose NBU right now was because of the field experience and place-based learning opportunities that the school is already affording as a part of its liberal arts education and that this program and vision for the future would be to deepen that and to expand on what we know is already a selling point for NBU and to streamline it and focus it and align it with this ecosystem model so that the opportunities aren't just away from campus but actually embedded on the campus and agree with Elaine that it sounds like there's some work to do in how this vision is described and messaged in the marketing but I think there's a lot of alignment with what we heard from the Thrive Committee and what the NBU Strong Committee are recommending and it's really a semantics more than vision. Yeah, thanks for raising that point, Bill. Any other questions or comments? Well, I think I wanna thank Catherine and Beth because I think I got you into spending your afternoon with us, so I wanna thank you for spending your almost your entire afternoon with us and for all of your work on the task force as well and thank you to President Collins for the invitation and also for providing the board the follow-up as to how the recommendations and advice is being implemented, which is great to see in here. It's a pleasure, thank you for all your work, for our colleges and affordable education for our community, so pleasure to get a window into the conversation. I appreciate the opportunity as well. It is a critical asset, thank you. Thanks, Beth, thanks, Catherine. I would suggest we talk to Pat Moulton and VTC next. Maybe Pat's disappeared, if you... Oh, there she is. Sorry, sorry. I clicked and tried to keep clicking and nothing was happening, so my apologies. Good afternoon again and thank you, Elaine, for that very excellent presentation by you and your counterparts. I'm afraid you get to listen to just me today, but I wanted to remind the Long Range Planning Committee we currently have two planning efforts underway. The first is our Transformation Advisory Task Force, which is more of an internal process with input from the college community and the public. Our TAT, as we call it. The second is our Ag and Food Systems to Transformation Project, which is more of an external process with assistance from the Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund and Facilitation and our co-chairs, Regina Beidler and Louise Calderwood. Both are proceeding very well, I'm pleased to say. I'll talk about the TAT work first. I wanna point out there are folks on this call who are part of the TAT, not the least of which is Mr. Ryan Zuni. So feel free to jump in, Ryan, if I miss anything or others that may be on here. But the TAT has been working through these last several months, being a lot of who I consider really excellent work. One of the first things they came up with is that the process would result in four major goals and I can try to screen, I'm not gonna share my screen, but first that the operating, college's operating budget once transformed will achieve a 5% operating margin annually. That margin will enable us to invest in strategic reserves, capital investments and more. Second is that the return on educational investment will increase by X%, X to be determined through cost reductions and enhanced graduate outcomes. We're looking specifically at defining X through return on investment formula, probably picking from the Georgetown University study to see which would fit us best since that's the latest science. The third is that all programs will design decentralized delivery and access for students, including non-traditional by fall 2021 and implement as feasible. And the fourth is levels of graduate educational satisfaction, career preparedness and ability to participate in effective citizenry will continue or improve. The fourth needs a little help in terms of metrics on that, but I think these are excellent overall goals for what the college will look like as a transform formed entity. So the TATs does this thinking, does comes up with these drafts, we send them out to the community, we get feedback from the community, we have representation on the TAT from every labor union, students, faculty, staff. So these are the good communications lines that we have going on with that group. The group also sifted through over 400 ideas, recommendations and suggestions that came to us from the college community, the public, the legislators, the legislature's idea bank and others that were solicited and obtained unsolicited. They filtered those down to certain themes and ranked every idea in terms of its likelihood of success and proceeding and all these ideas were captured and archived for future consideration. The TAT then passed along a list of important ideas and recommendations for follow-up and investigation and to develop a plan for implementation. And this went to our drafting committee, which is a subgroup of the TAT six folks, back to the point earlier, that it's easier to work with a group of six than it is a group of 26. So the six will be doing this drafting that consists of Lit Tyler, our Dean of Administration, Anna Gallette, our academic dean, Jason Ensar, our dean of students, Kelly Campbell, our chief technology officer, myself and Alan Rogers as our facilitator, former president, current faculty. That group is working over the next several months. The TAT work is kind of taking a smaller, not smaller, less frequent role and will be more of the drafting committee in bringing, here's our ideas, getting feedback, bringing it up to the community to get feedback and tweak those ideas. So the drafting committee has met several times and grouped the ideas and recommendations we received from the TAT into four major areas. Those major areas include consolidating programs, adding certificates, minors and pathways as one from the academic standpoint. Second, improve access, develop additional alternative delivery models, a low residency, collaborations with CDE, continuing a delivery. The fourth is to reduce our physical footprint, consolidate usage, sell at least unused assets. The fourth, sorry, is assess performance in all areas, all resource areas and functions, such as athletics, personnel, space, et cetera, to achieve that 5% operating margin. So the drafting committee has identified eight key projects within those four areas to start working on implementation. And I don't really wanna share those now because we haven't shared it with the TAT yet. So we meet with the TAT on August 6th to tell them what our eight project areas are, get that feedback. We are using a project management approach to implement these projects and developing project charters. And we're gonna be sharing with the TAT a project charter for the first major project we wanna take on, which is involving reducing our physical footprint in Randolph Center, some of which the Finance and Facilities Committee was involved in earlier today. So we're moving forward nicely. The Ag and Food Systems Project is moving forward well. We have a steering committee that's met to review current operations curricula finances. We have folks from all over Vermont invested in this process, folks from UVN, Sterling College, financial entities, farmers, ag specialists, and a whole lot more rolling up their sleeves to help, which is just fabulous. Our faculty and staff and others are involved in that as well. We've held one open invitation Zoom session with up to 50 interested people joining to learn about this process and offer input. We have a second meeting tomorrow, face to face. Note to self, try to do face to face meetings again. It's really difficult. And try to socially distance and sanitize. But we have 25 people coming to campus for a face to face meeting tomorrow. And we're repeating that on the 7th of August by a Zoom, really dive into ideas on how we can transform, really start to assess that what are the opportunities. And remember the goal of this committee is to define the best educational niche for us in the Ag and Food Systems world, given what others are doing. We have formed teams to work in subject areas around that Ag work. There is a culture and curriculum committee that's reviewing existing curricula and looking at what new we could offer that would be successful. And that's chaired by Mark Mahaley, the former Dean of Vermont Law School. We have a dairy subgroup looking at what our dairy program should look like. And that's led by Laura Ginsburg of the Vermont Department of Agriculture. We have a survey team looking at gathering input by a survey and Erica Campbell of Senator Leahy, our Senator Sanders office is assisting in sharing that effort. A program model team looking at how other programs around the country or the world are working to benefit Ag and Food Systems and how ours could be designed. And Philip Ackerman Leist of Sterling College is chairing that group. We have an Outreach and Communication group to assure we're letting folks know what we're doing and getting input. And that's led by Kate Finley Woodruff from UVM. We have a business case team that's writing the business plan for what this morphed agricultural Ag and Food Systems program would look like. And that's being led by Allison Hooper of Ayersburg Fireman, former owner and still on the board of Vermont Creamery and Lit Tyler will loom large in that group as well. The timing of these two efforts is likely to be on track with each other. The Ag and Food Systems group is looking at a nine month project. We've got roughly six to seven months remaining. The work of the TAT and the drafting committee specifically is gonna take some time because we've really gotta dive in. We've got, we're gonna be including stakeholders in those projects from around the campus and really start to do the research, look at the numbers. An overall goal is to first determine how transformative are these ideas? What kind of revenue and expense impact will it have? Will it get us to where we need to be in terms of a 5% positive operating margin? There's a lot of work to do here, but we feel that the timing is well synchronized and likely be looking at some final reports in December, January. We'll obviously keep this committee updated as we proceed, but I'm honestly just horribly impressed with how well the TAT is working together. I shouldn't say horribly, I'm positively impressed with how the TAT is working together and this Ag and Food Systems group and how many people are willing to throw up their sleeves and come in and help us out. And obviously we need to see how this work fits in with what the VSE forward group is looking at and what other colleges are looking at, but we too are in favor of really trying to look at better system-ness and how we better collaborate across the system. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions if anybody has any. Thanks, Pat, any questions for Pat? Oh, come on. Well, thank you very much. Yeah, no, thank you, Pat. Thanks, it sounds like you guys have been very busy. You're lucky with pulling off an in-person meeting. There's a lot of work that goes into this transformation and while you're figuring out reopening and having to pivot what seems to be a great half hour, so these are crazy times, but it keeps the juices flowing, so we're on. Great, thanks, Pat. So Sophie. Yeah, next I think is Castleton. I don't see Jonathan on my screen, but I'm sure he's here. There he is. I am here. Just not on my screen, or you weren't before. But I'm on your radar. You are. Actually, unlike NVU and VTC, Castleton was not charged with creating any task force, so you may be hesitant to learn that my update on planning is going to be very brief today. First of all, in the very short term, of course, we're waiting to see what happens this fall with enrollment and with the virus. We have to shut down in the middle of the semester. Will we remain shut down in the spring? And yes, what about even next fall? Secondly, in the medium term, we're waiting to see what level of bridge funding we may or may not receive from the legislature. And then in the long term, and this is the long term planning committee, we're waiting for the many task forces and new trustees to endorse a plan for the strategic vision for the VSCS. So in sum, we are not working on our own long range plan until we have data regarding enrollment and funding and until we know what the strategic vision for the whole system is going to be. However, I will say as a first step for the earlier recommendation of the labor task force, I do plan to edit my name on this Zoom screen from Jonathan Spyro, CU to Jonathan Spyro, Vermont State University. Any questions? Any questions for Jonathan? Seeing none, Jonathan, thank you very much. And I think last but certainly not least is Joyce Judy. Thank you. And I also want to just say, echo what Jonathan said that we weren't asked to develop a task force, but that doesn't mean, and I think the same as Jonathan, we're doing a tremendous amount. And this is, even though we're in a COVID-19 environment, we continue to have to change and evolve because we have to help our monitors continue their education. So one of the things we're trying to do sort of side by side is keep forward in the environment that we're in, but also continue to implement our strategic plan, which is brilliant. We want that to be very much a living document. And so there's a lot of new initiatives and things that are underway at CCV, and I'll talk about those a little bit in a moment, but I also want to say that, CCV is, I have been in contact and have regular conversations with both Pat and I, because I do think as they begin to formulate their plans, that we can be a significant, we can play a role in helping them to move forward in their plans and whatever that means. And one of the things that I liked about the VSD task force, the one-range task force is creating a single channel education for the participating, such a huge benefit to CCV students because they could work on their gen ed at CCV and have the confidence when they were gonna transfer to Castleton or transfer to NBU that their general ed would be, their requirements would be the same across the system. So I'm hoping that that's not gonna save anybody, but it will be really great service to students. And so that's just a small thing that we'll really can implement. I will also say that both Lit Tyler and Andy Polito our deans of administration continue to work on a plan in terms of how do we think, how do we, these two institutions for the very least, look at some of our back room operations and how do we really take advantage of some of those things. So they continue to work on that. It's not as straightforward as it might first appear, but they are doing some significant work and trying to work on that aspect. I'll just give you a couple of things that I think in terms of as we look forward, a couple of things that are exciting around our strategic planning. And some of you had heard me talk a little bit about that, but like for example, in the COVID-19 environment, what's important for us is to really think about, okay, so as technology becomes a bigger and bigger, we utilize technology more and more as we offer our courses, how do we put in place the things that we believe will serve us well when we are no longer in a COVID-19 environment. And we think something like synchronous courses is going to be a synchronous online courses will be a significant and really popular format. So it's a combination of traditional on-ground, I mean online course work with synchronous component where maybe seven times over the course of the semester you meet with a faculty and your students. So you have a sense of community, you have a sense of you know, face to face, but it's all done virtually. So you don't have to leave your home, you can do it from your office, you can do it from wherever. But for some of us, and I will put myself in that category, I like, I can learn online, but I really like the energy I get in a group meeting. And so we think the synchronous is really important and we're investing heavily in professional development around that particular format. And we've gone from trying it out a little in the spring to we are probably offering 80 synchronous, 80 courses this fall with the synchronous component. The other thing that as we think about looking to the future, we have a path towards it is looking at what we're gonna do for spring. And as some of you were on this morning, I think our spring semester is probably gonna look very much like how we're offering our fall because I just think that we're not gonna be in a whole lot, a different situation when we start at least a plan. So I think I will stop there and I would just say that we believe that we can be a significant contributor to once ProTVNBU and Vermont Tech starting to have a game plan on how we can plug in and help homeowners. We believe we can do that in a very significant way. I'll stop there. Okay, well, thank you, Joyce. Any questions for Joyce? Seeing none. Oh, Bill. I'm gonna say my questions for later, Joyce. It's been a long afternoon and I do have questions but I would love to actually be able to engage with you when we're all feeling a little fresher. Well, or Bill, call me anytime. I will. I will. Is it very interesting to hear other people have plans for CCV? Yes, I do too and I would react to them but I won't in this. Let's do that another time. Okay, I will just say one thing. There is a reason that we are not located on campuses. Taking our students onto campus is not going to make those campuses more viable and CCV students will not go there. So I'll just, I'll say my piece and then we can expand on it. Yeah, I'd love to hear more dialogue about that but not today. Well, thank you, Bill. Thank you, Joyce, as well. So Sophie, I think all we have left is new business and public comments. Under new business, I did want to mention that Sophie did send around a paper from Ryan that Ryan Cooney put together about sort of his thoughts about system transformation. I want to make sure everybody got that. It came in around noon yesterday. I don't know, Ryan, if you have anything you want to mention or say to the group but happy to reserve that for another time as well. Yeah, no, it's definitely been a long afternoon so I don't think we have to get pulled into discussion but yeah, I believe everyone should have gotten a copy of that. I know a couple of members have already reached out to me with some questions and their agreeableness to the plan and it's potential for the future. So I'm happy that we're already meeting those discussions. I will say I was surprised actually how close my plan turned out to be to what the labor task force had proposed. So I'd like, I'm glad multiple entities are kind of already on the same track and I think that gives us a strong future movement towards that plan. But definitely people have questions or even those not on the board who like access the plan more than happy to reach out to get those discussions going all sooner the better in my opinion. Yeah, I was surprised how closely aligned they were to Ryan, I thought maybe there was some collusion going on. No, I've never talked once and I was very surprised. I was like, wow, that was, you know, I had the same idea there, that crazy how close it was. Who sent out Ryan's? Cause I don't, I've got so many emails that may have gone a lot. Sophie, I'll look under your name then. Yeah, yeah, I sent it out and I mean, we'll include it as well with the board materials. And again, hopefully Linda will share the PowerPoint and any other, you know, if there are any other reports I know Mary had indicated that the SCS Thrive had additional documents. So we'll just make sure that you get all of those and they'll be part of the board materials that are posted on the website. So they'll be fully accessible for everybody. Great. Great, well, thank you, Ryan. Thanks for putting the effort time into that, sharing it with us as well. So I think Sophie and Jen were at the public comment stage. You wanna see if we have any one that is interested in public comment? That would be great. We've heard from a lot of people. So maybe it's been more public comment as a program today. But yeah, if there's anyone else that has comments I'm not in control of that. So hopefully Jen and Meg can check and see if there's anyone. Yep, if anyone wants to make a comment you can go ahead and raise your hand and we'll call on you and you can actually unmute yourself once you've done that to make a comment. A lot of people on here already have made a comment but we're open for more. Although I am not seeing any charity check, so. Okay, well, thank you, Jen. I do wanna thank, first I'll thank the board for the committee members for sticking with us this afternoon, particularly those that participated in the finance facilities meeting this morning. Basically a full day of Mont State College work but certainly appreciate you participating and engaging and sticking with us. I think we had a really interesting conversation this afternoon and a really interesting and sobering conversation this morning in finance and facilities. So a lot more work ahead of us. And I do wanna thank also our guests that came and presented to us. We need to have everyone thinking about how do we move forward? We need to have everyone doing that in a sort of coordinated fashion, not necessarily unified fashion but a coordinated fashion so that we're all rowing in the same direction and benefiting from each other's good thoughts. So I think that was a really good effort today to start to have those kinds of conversations and look forward to our continued work in dialogue. So with that, I think I'll ask for a motion to adjourn. I see Karen has moved. Do we have a second? Second. Bill I think is seconding with his eyes. All those in favor say aye. Aye. We are adjourned. Thank you everybody and look forward to seeing you at the next board meeting.