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You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I am doing well. Thank you. How are you? So I am originally from Connecticut. I was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. I had kind of a rough, didn't have too much childhood. I was actually on my own since I was a teenager. I used to do a lot of skateboarding and I ended up in California and Vegas and Florida just kind of traveling around skateboarding, doing whatever jobs I can and ended up meeting a girl, had kids at a young age. I decided I was an entrepreneur, started my first business when I was 23 with a tax return of a few thousand dollars. I just bootstrapped it and turned that into a multi-million dollar company and then I ended up taking some of that money after that industry kind of fizzled out. There was oil and gas stuff. It was kind of up and down. So I ended up taking some of my profits and I invested it into a phone case company and this company, we had a lot of attention and we decided that we needed some kind of technology that would actually automatically remotely monitor our comments and then maybe remove them, notify us that it's happened with keywords. So we just kind of morphed into technology. I was never really a tech guy, but it just turned into that. So we actually got the attention of Kim Kardashian by way of our Sensegram app. We found out she was using it and she reached out to us through one of her friends, Jonathan Chebonne, however you say his name, and she wanted to partner because she wanted to be able to remove her comments. This was her thing. This is what she wanted to do. She was having a lot of hate from a lot of different people at that time. On Instagram and you couldn't remove comments at that time. That's what our Sensegram app did was it removed comments automatically. So she wanted to partner. She wanted to be the face. She wanted to start an anti-cyberbullying app or anti-cyberbullying foundation, and use our app and our name, our logo as the thing. Were you a millionaire at this time? Sorry? Were you a millionaire at this time? I was. And you came from the streets with nothing? Mm-hmm. So see when, what is, did you leave school? I did actually. I ended up finishing school, but I ended up dropping out. And how was it coming from the broken home also with no guidance, nobody to show you how to love? You know, it was tough. You know, my dad got sick. He was diagnosed with MS when he was in his 30s. And, you know, my mom and dad, they split when I was three. So like, I didn't really have a father figure, you know, that could be like in my life. And he ended up dying at a young age. So I just, I had to figure a lot of things out on my own, you know, but it actually made me stronger, I think, you know, I feel like it made me never back down, you know. So where did you get that entrepreneurship skills then? Is that always something that you didn't want to fail? Like where you just wanted to succeed? Or did you have no option to succeed because you never had anything anyway? You know, it was, I didn't really understand that I had the ability at first. I worked for my wife at the Times family, just doing like construction work. They had a record service and stuff. So I was basically just working and doing whatever I could and helping them run their companies. And I just fell into an opportunity when there was a problem with one of those companies that I was working with. They actually had an accident and they weren't quite sure that their insurance was going to handle everything and they thought they were just, you know, done. So a body of mine, which was also my brother-in-law at the time, we were kind of screwed. We thought we were screwed. We thought we were going to have to just go find a job, you know, start something new from scratch. You know, we just had, we just both had kids, new families. So it was really a scary time. What we did was we actually went to the company that we were working for, like that we were contracted to. And we said, hey, we're kind of screwed. You guys like the work that we do. There's not money, you know, people that do what we were doing at the time. It was kind of a niche thing. So we just asked them, we said, hey, if we get the insurance and we get everything straight that we need, could we just take over and do this with our company? Would you guarantee to use us so we don't waste our money? You know, we needed to make sure. They were like, yeah, do it. So we never looked back. We did everything we needed to do. We did all the legwork. And so at that moment, when I realized like, hey, I could put this together with this and that together with that, you know, make sure all the, you know, eyes are dotted and, you know, tees are crossed and like everything is good and I work for myself now. I never have to work for somebody else. You know, that was very appealing to me. Did you read any books or was it just through hard work out there and learning from the trade? I actually did, you know, if I don't understand something, it drives me crazy. So, you know, I, this was when the internet was just getting going, you know, so I read a lot of books, did a lot of research and, you know, took classes if I needed to. So yeah, I basically, you know, I have a self-made tattoo on my arm and I know a lot of people do shit, but I mean, like, this means something to me. Yeah. Like this really means something to me. So what was it like when you started making money, you started becoming your own boss, you were married, was life going good? It was great. Yeah. Because you see my genuine guy, you see him decent guy. There's a lot of assholes out there. Unless everybody's out for themselves, including me. I'm out for my family. I work hard to provide for them. If people need to help along the way and I feel as if they've deserved it or they earned it or they're good people, where some people need a kickstart or I needed it myself when I was trying and raising the bar, but you do get people who genuinely help you and you see my guy who's worked hard and try to create a better life for himself. So see when everything's going good, how much did you invest into this app? Well, there was a multitude of things. It was the cases. It was all the businesses that tied into what we were doing at the time. We had a patent filed on our Centrogram process to remove. We basically filed a provisional patent for the process of removing comments automatically from social media feeds. That's in the books. I have that filed before Instagram. I've ever even added it to their settings as a filter. So that's part of why I'm so amped up and upset about all this is because I wasted so much money on the patent process. Our U.S. patent process is supposed to back people up and let us as Americans, like in other countries, I'm sure, their patent process, it's like there for a reason to protect people and their ideas. What was that patent process? It was the process of removing comments from social media feed automatically. Any social media? Because I know Twitter doesn't remove its comments even to this day with it worked on Twitter. So, yes, it was developing for Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram. We were locking it down for all. We actually hired the patent attorney, the firm that got the mortgage process patented. Something to do with mortgage. It was a really bad-ass patent firm. They were going to be protecting our process. So that way, when anybody like Instagram decided to add that filter, if they ever were, which they didn't want to, that's part of my story, they never wanted to. And then after the whole Kardashian thing, that's when they decided to do it. Who on Instagram at that time? Because Zuckerberg got it now? It was actually a private company. The CEO at the time was Kevin Systrom. What year was this? This was 2014-15. Instagram was just kind of popping off back then? Yeah, it was the most engaging platform at the time, but it was just popping off. Yeah, because when did Instagram come? 2010? 2011? Something like that. Yeah, because Facebook was the one. Instagram with the photos and people posting just one photo. It started blowing up about that. I can remember it at that stage. So you've then come up with this idea, a new app to censor comments. How much was it you put into this app and who else was your partners? I put in over a million dollars on all of it. It was basically everything liquid that I had saved that I was able to between the legal and just everything, the initial investments. My partners, one was my cousin and then another Narayan. I was the only one that invested in any capital. Why? I was the only one that had it. Why bring them on board? My cousin Dan made the connection between me and Narayan on the phone case deal. I would never have met Narayan and he's like, hey, let's do something together. Because I was hungry looking to do something else because of that business that we had that was wildly successful. We had to pivot and do something else. My partner at that time, which was also my brother-in-law, he just didn't do anything else. He just set on his money and he went with a different strategy. I've always been the business development, marketing guy, let's go guy. So I had to do something else or I was going to go crazy. So I got into the phone case deal. Rasktika? I feel like I am. The older I get, a little more controlled risk. But back then, when I felt like I was unstoppable, I was this bomb that was skating around. I've worked since I was 15 so I didn't consider myself a bomb as far as that goes but I didn't have any money. So I just got to my head a little bit, I'd say, back in my late 20s and early 30s. Money does that, but you feel untouchable and life says, nah, I'm going to humble you real quick. That's no shit. No matter who you are, how good you are, no matter if you're bringing in family members or partners because they've helped you connect with other partners. Life is life, man. It's ups and downs. It happens to everyone. So you've invested a million. You brought people in, so you brought your cousin in because he put you on to, because did you feel as if you were to my favor? He brought skills and we all had our own skill sets. But there's no risk factor for them because they'll not put up any capital? Correct. So what's the process to building something like this? For building an app like this? So that's where Narayan had a big part in the tech stuff. He was like the engineer and you basically have to build your user interface the way it's all going to look. So we have to tackle that one part and then you have to have the back end and deal with... So he was able to do a lot of our coding, some of our coding and user interface stuff, most of the user interface in-house. So we did all that ourselves as a company. But then we had to subcontract out certain things with other people and it's basically just project management. So when did the wheels start turning to again pushing it to then become something? How long does it take? Quick, because we started advertising the app and its capabilities. We put it on the app store. We ended up with a few thousand users just like that. How much was that? It was free at first. Is that what normally happens with apps? Then it was. Now there's different strategies but we were in the freemium age back then to where it was free but then we were going to add... But if you want to do this, it's a dollar. But if you want to do this, it's $1.99. You have to do something to pay for it. Advertising once you have so much users and then you can charge to not have the advertising. A lot of apps now, they're free. Then after 6 months, maybe 4.99 and then after a couple years of 18.99. It had to get created. Yeah, listen, it's business as well. A lot of dating apps used to be free and then you're in. But if you want anybody to see you. Yeah, you have to pay. Listen, it's business, I understand it. So then it starts making money at any time? No, not the app. Never really actually made money. Just collected users and then we were blocked, essentially. So you're collecting data like emails. You're collecting all that because that's important now. You're not making money. You've invested a full million into it? About one and three-quarter, I was all in. Yeah, so like a little over one and a half. I don't want to say a few million, but it definitely wasn't. So when you're doing that, how long were you expecting to then turn money back? Was that a three-year plan, a five-year plan? We were still figuring that out. Are we just becoming cocky to it? All other businesses will be successful. You thought this would be the same? I was actually in the process of trying to find a CEO. I'm capable of putting these things together. But I know I'm not a tech CEO. I can get to a certain point and then we need to start bringing in more help. This episode is sponsored by Fireaway Pizza. The fastest-growing pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores. With their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas, they will have you coming back for more. Use code james20 for 20% off. That's james20 for 20% off. We were needing to raise funds for the development of the rest of the platforms. I just got it started, but I was ready to and we were working on bringing more people in. I was going to take less percent and basically less than people buy in so we could take it to the next stage. That's what one of the family members of the Kardashian-Jenner family, we were basically offered a family friend was going to help fund it. That's how they were getting part of their percentage. You've then created that you put the money in it. You've got a little team behind you. Kim Kardashian and Kim Kardashian found out through Instagram. Through Instagram. I think her friend Jonathan, Chabon Foodgod, he maybe told her because he was using the app. Somehow she found out and had him reach out to us to talk. But the first time he reached out through direct messages, he was like, hey, Kim wants control of your company. It was just something from left field or just like, wait, this is really awesome that this big family, these super popular people are even using our app and are interested in talking, but pump breaks, let's chill. He was kind of like a lot. We just stopped. We didn't go any further with Jonathan. But then there must have been some news or something like her media team released that her Hollywood, Kim Kardashian Hollywood game, the big game that she had was making like $200 million a year. So a couple weeks after the first direct message from Jonathan, he reached back out and said, hey, Kim's game is doing major money. Let's talk again. Let's do this right. So he set it up for her to call me the next day. So then she ended up calling and that's when we found out that her family, her and her family were using the app and they really wanted to get behind it. So how many followers did she have back then, 10 years ago? I think it was like less than 100 million. Even then it's still one post with that to ensure that to be the most used apps on the planet. You're then talking hundreds of millions, people say apps for websites now for like a say hundreds of millions, some even billions. We were reluctant honestly before the phone call. Before she ended up calling, we were kind of reluctant, not only because of the way Jonathan came off in the beginning, but because they're, you know, what are they known for? You know what I mean? We were trying to go on an anti-cyber bullying campaign and you know, really, yes, it's usable for businesses for high profile people to monitor and remove unwanted comments, but like let's face it, we realized how big this was and how many people it could actually help in like the parental control, like you know, helping kids from getting bullied and like that was something that we realized was pretty big and we're like, is Kim Kardashian the right person to work with on this? You know, we had some real conversations about this, but then when she called me, so to explain why I recorded the conversation, it was excitement. In no way did we ever think we were going to have to use any recordings to like defend ourselves or to like write something. So my kids, my teenagers, they were stoked. Like they couldn't be in the room and like talking and stuff, but they were really excited, you know. So my cousin pulled out his phone and just decided to record the conversation just like for the sake of like hearing us talk and the voices, you know what I mean. But it turned out it was good we did. What was spoke about in that conversation? Basically how you know, Kim was nervous about her sisters and her, you know, and how people are online and how she wanted to get behind something like this for that reason and you know, she worries about her kids and just like you know, she wants to do something great like you know, anti-cyberbullying and started a foundation and how her whole family would get behind it and basically she sold us on it. Any doubt that I had, I was like wait a minute, this actually could work out like this could be really good because it could be their time to do something great and give back and then it could be us as part of that. Like hey, like this is what the Kardashians are known for now. Like not a sex tape, not like all this other shit, like this is positive, like this could be good, let's do this together and that's kind of What was your gut feeling soon? I was like, let's do this shit. So you were all in, you'd feel a bit about it. And why not? Like I say, it's one of the most powerful families on the planet. I don't know them personally, don't really, obviously there's shows through the years and they're everywhere so they always pop up somewhere, Kanye West plastic surgery, news shows, drama somewhere, but I don't really look into it too much, I'm too busy for they're forced on us almost. Yeah, they're pushed obviously people want to be successful at that level everything's pushed in front of you so you do know who they are. People know how the game operates now, the people ain't stupid but so you've had the nearly hour-long conversation, what happens then? We set it up, her team basically was in contact with us to go out to California to have our in-person meeting and kind of nail down the percentages and that kind of stuff. See for the app, how smooth was it to use? It was actually pretty user-friendly to, you know, these days it looks you know, ancient compared to user interface like, you know, things have changed a lot but you could actually see screenshots of it online and how it worked and the Oklahoma City news channel did like a little piece on it back then with me and my cousin and they kind of showed there's a video out there too, it shows you know, how it all works, it was pretty simple. And what happens then, if you have got this app, say you've invested millions you've brought big partners in but what if these apps then decide to bring in, they can delete their own comments how would that have worked, would that have destroyed the app completely? No, I think what would have ultimately happened was we would have had multiple different social media platforms trying to buy us and control the patent. Yeah, so someone become a popular app, they love it and buy us out basically. Yeah, I mean because it would have just been like one of those things like that they would have had, you know, somebody would had to buy it, you know, in order for it to work with everything else like I could see, you know, Facebook you know, Meta or whatever it would have been like you know, because not only did they intend to use something like that so they could never have patent protection or whatever the legalities are on that because we had filed it already, so like I just think we were in a position to and that's why I feel like there's so much corruption involved in this situation because like there's so many answers that need, there's so many questions that need answered basically. So seeing you what happens as well if how do you need permission from the other apps to be deleting stuff off their app? So you have to work with their API in order to every one of these platforms they have like a certain set of rules that you have to work within in order to like tap into their app and do stuff like that so like Instagram was well aware that we were doing what we were doing but they at that time they were against using their platform like that to to let people censor what they choose they did it a whole different way that's part of what the conversation we recorded with Kardashian was she was discussing with Kevin Sistrom, the CEO at that time like basically why they won't just do what we're doing and they're like well no we don't do it that way, we do it another way we don't believe in a one size fits all approach to removing comments, we have a whole department that basically moderates things the way that they moderate things but that obviously changed in the couple years after we filed our patent and Kim interfered and Kevin Sistrom is no longer the CEO of Instagram it's now owned by Facebook and it's just a completely different animal and somehow on that change up they started using what we created and we never made a dollar off of it so like I have a lot of shit to figure out a lot like you see you don't know who's internet, you don't know who's fuck job you don't know if they've seen this that becoming potentially one of the biggest and they've said okay just sync them cars can be running on water they're not wanting that, anybody that comes up with those ideas, I think a man actually did have a car running on water buying heart attack they don't want, everything energy is free, everything is free but yet the world is controlled, we know this people are not stupid anymore, they're not believing what they're seeing on the news and the newspapers, some people are because it's all they know, they're sitting in front of that shit every day but it's just you open your eyes to it it seems not to be a conspiracy theory but if you've got something there and it's worth a lot you're just as sad as it is, we're nobodies, we're peasants these people big corporations, big families who control everything, they can destroy you in a fucking heartbeat, if they don't rinse you dry where you've no money left, they'll fucking discredit you where nobody then listens to you but like I say things are changing the tide is turning and this is what it's all about so did you ever have that one on one did you ever have that meeting with Kim? we did and what was that like meeting huh? it wasn't bad they gave us Fiji water we had our me, my partner Ryan Dan, my wife at the time and there, it was Chris Kim one of their attorneys and two of their assistants and we essentially had our deal for Censogram which was going to be 60% 40% we were going to have controlling part because it was ours and they were going to get their percent for providing funding which Chris had said they had a family friend that was going to do that then we decided we had pitched the Komoji thing which this is what everybody seems so more obsessed about than even Censogram, Komoji was just a we were already working we had a couple other projects our app social company it was like an app machine we created multiple different apps and we had a Wall Street emoji app and like a sexy emoji app and my partner Ryan's like well why don't we just like put these together and pitch this to her and let it be her name that way we can get this out there too so we pitched Komoji it was the Ryan's the one we came up with that like that was our trademark that we didn't trademark yet that's a big point people are arguing about right now so Komoji was going to be 50-50 because it was her name but it was all of our ideas and a lot of our original artwork she was really excited about Komoji she was more excited about that once that came out than anything else and so we talked about trademarking that but somehow that didn't get done by us because we had our attorney doing all of our legal stuff like our patents and trademarks and everything and when it came to that particular trademark we just since Chris was telling us they're netting contracts and they're gonna they're gonna fast track things and we're a team and other people are gonna do stuff like on our behalf as well so after that meeting and everything went well we had our agreements Kim called us to just say hey everything's great you know this was like a week and a half later everything's great we're going through with all the projects just like we discussed she was just kind of just checking everything off the list like everything's good and then at the end of that conversation she said oh by the way guys did you trademark Kimoji yet because if not we're just gonna go ahead and do that through our team and take care of all that it'll be cheaper we'll just cover it we're like no we actually didn't trademark that one it's the only one we didn't do because we didn't want to do it with her name and our company name we wanted to do it through our new entity together we didn't think there'd be any way some random mark Kimoji nobody knew what the hell was even going on well she ended up trademarking it herself without us on it right after she hung up that that first phone call and then five minutes later she called us back and acted outraged and asked why my partner Narayan sent a bragging text message to a friend of his that got back to Kim and she now wanted to kill the deal who was the friend just a it was a girl that he was kind of bragging to and there was a NDA saying to say there's no discussion at the time that was sent to her no so how can they still use that then because they lied to us and they made it seem like we broke some kind of I like we like we violated you know so there was fraud and lies that made us seem and there's lawyers threatened us like we had like broke the law like we had like we were screwed like they basically I put the letter up in my solar media somewhere saying that they're gonna basically sue me and I had everything to lose for five million dollars if we didn't hand them over everything that they wanted essentially for her to be able to do her own comment control app if she wanted even though we had the patent and for her to have the right to Komoji or else basically I'm sued for five million dollars because I lose everything because of what my partner did and come to find out it was done before the NDA was signed and it was done intentionally to interfere and there was proof of that so like once we found out about all this and I found out like over the next few years I was just like seeing red I was just in another world just with like depression and anger who meant to send a message your guy or the woman I was it was my partner sent a message to his one of his old partners a girl that he was kind of into deliberately deliberately but it was a private message saying hey Kim Kardashian yeah but did he send it so it could go back to her it it was basically that's what happened was that person then used it against Narayan sent it to Jonathan and said hey look this guy's bragging about this and then she used that against us to kill the deal and steal the IP but what was the big deal if you were bragging about it anyway that's what I'm thinking you know I don't understand what I don't it was the lamest excuse to kill the deal and steal a trademark ever you know she could have just been like hey this guy's bragging I don't really like the vibe let's not do this but I want the trademark so I'm going to give you this much money or I'm going to sue you for this they could have did something so like it could have went so different why did you not start feeding then because I thought we were wrong because Narayan wasn't forthcoming about like exactly what happened it literally took me a while to figure out what happened and when the guy that actually sent the message the friend of this friend of Narayan's he reached out and it was like hey they actually asked me to do this intentionally so that way they can mess your deal up like the guy has proof that he sent the message to Jonathan that got back to Kim so like that's like so Jonathan told him to send that text basically when Jonathan caught wind of that happening he knew he can get that to Kim why the fuck did your guy send the text who is he trust me dude I think the same thing like who is he he's the partner Narayan so Narayan's the guy who sent the text he's the co-inventor do you have a question that he could have been paid to send that like a payoff I don't think so because he was trying to throw everybody under the bus besides his own self but did someone outside of your group tell him to send that so it could go back to her so she could then have legal rights to take everything from him I don't believe so I would question that man it just seems a bit extreme for someone sending a text and then it getting back to Kim Kardashian it seems as if that's been set up because then they've got levelies to play with they've got something then to play with and then go well the contract is void because you've done this give me all this or we're going to sue you just through a text message somebody in your teams for me personally looking from outside is involved whether they've been paid off and says look if you send that message we'll get it back to us we then own all rights to it because they'll be broken so it just seems listen it's messy all angles so he's send a text the text goes back to her she made a phone call to you guys that day but then five minutes later started screaming and shouting the first time she called she already knew she was going to end the deal but she wanted to make sure her trademark was secure at first and so the deal was 60-40 for censorship one and 50-50 for the Kimoji and what should any of these rough know these apps Kimoji there's no telling they sent me an email saying that it didn't make any money yet Kanye West wrapped about it making a million a minute you know they still sell stuff with the trademark on it to this day so they're basically lying to me saying that they didn't make any money they also offered me six figures plus a percentage of this trademark that didn't make any money so I'm just really confused how much did they offer six figures I don't want to give the exact amount because I don't even know if that could give me trouble or not but it was a joke compared to what I had in everything so how long did it take for her to use that app once she hung up that phone Kimoji they were already working on it like immediately because you just know like but proof wise until they've launched it on Apple store like you know I know for a fact it was like a year you know it took them like a year maybe a little over to get it developed through the company that they wanted to get it developed through and then and this is your idea so what happens after the phone call when she says the NDA has been broken she actually didn't even say that what she did was she was like who's Narayan or who's Ryan this was the stupidest thing because let me backtrack in the beginning when we first were emailing with them about like making arrangements to go out to California like after the phone call her team and everybody was emailing each other they're like I introduced Narayan with his nickname that nobody knew other than us was Ryan well let me basically they knew Ryan was his nickname before we ever even emailed anything and the reason we know that was because when we went back through all of the documents all of the emails when I said this is Narayan this is our tech partner our creative partner and you know whatever I ended up saying she replied saying hi Ryan nice to meet you and I introduced him as Narayan so the reason why this is important was because that text message that I was talking about the bragging text message that had Ryan at the top because that's what she all this lady Alice that the one that sent the message that was jealous of our deal with Kim because she was obsessed with Kim she had him saved as Ryan she always called him Ryan never called him the Ryan so I was thinking in our lawyer at the time was thinking the only way they know he's Ryan is because they had that text message the screenshot before we ever even talked before we ever went out there so they essentially what I feel like now majority of our legal team at the time thought was we were set up from the beginning knowing that because when Jonathan wanted the partner and we said no essentially the first time when they were being aggressive that's when Ryan said that message he said your dream girl wanted to partner with us we said no then that week and a half later we ended up talking and we ended up saying yes so that message was before any ADA before we ever met she knew Ryan was Narayan and that was his nickname and she gave herself up and we think that's why we ended up getting a settlement offer because they kind of caught us on some shit here but then I basically told them FU on the small settlement offer and we filed a lawsuit did you sign anything? I never signed shit did you sign anything with the apps as well to give her a percentage? I never signed shit I didn't have the money because they got my partners to sign or else they were going to lose everything they had and be liable for their legal fees and everything so because two out of three of us signed even though I was not part of it at all they were forcing me to go into a private arbitration setting and have to pay tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars just to talk to these people so I couldn't afford it after everything they knew they were wiping me out unless I was able to raise funds and have a legal budget of hundreds of thousands of dollars I'm not going to be able to do shit they're multi-millionaires now but 10 years ago they're multi-millionaires so after that what was Kim Kardashian like as a person when you met her who else did you meet that day? she was nice in the beginning the phone calls she seemed fairly normal but I'm realizing now that was an act or could it have been that she is just getting told through lawyers and other people what you're doing and maybe getting brainwashed to then think you're going against her she doesn't really know if she's a nice person like I said I don't know her personally maybe behind her who's telling her what to do just like I said before she's definitely not the kingpin and Kris isn't even she's more so than Kim but they're a legal team they have the best lawyers and they're sharky they know how to navigate these type of situations to give their client a one up they are well versed in this and not for nothing but Kris learned well from her ex her former husband whatever you say but so we were we were up against some really smart and shady and sharky people so after all that after the phone calls, after the meetings what happens then you've not got the money to fight back you've not signed anything what happens with your life then I spiraled bro I thought that I knew what depression was before all that but I mean my life just systematically just went to complete shit did you give up? almost a couple times I really almost did so that's how you do? yeah I thought about it I mean it's so hard to like you feel so alone because you hear about these people all the time and like there's these major influences and these major entities out there that like had something to do with my life being shit now and it's like I can't do anything about it it's almost like such a crazy story that some people just don't even think it's true like some people are just like oh there's no fucking way that happened it's tough it's really tough it's not really doing it and not be able to do anything about it yeah you're going to get that speaking out against the Kardashians because they are a powerful family they are loved as well, people genuinely do love them a lot of people hate them now as well especially Kanye West stuff and all the other shit that goes with them but if people really know life it's not really plastic surgery and the fake shit that's not what I'm about that's what nobody should be about they believe that they're not good enough they're not worthy, they're not beautiful everybody's beautiful whether that's appearance or internally everybody's got beautifulness in them and greatness and light and goodness but this world beats you down man the prime example, life is going good millionaire, you're coming up with new ideas like Kardashians want to get involved you're thinking you've made that and then bang, life's going fucking terrible is that how your relationship and stuff broke down with your wife? I mean pretty much when I say Kim Kardashian ruined my life you know, people also have to understand that they triggered everything into the happening you know, I obviously have been able to make choices after after everything went and you know, part of it's just like I had to get attention to this you know Kim Kardashian ruined my life dot com seemed like just a great way to almost use her influence against her and get attention on the story that needs to be out there so I mean did she completely ruin my life? fuck no but she tried you know what I mean and until like I should explain why I decided to do the website real quick I was sleeping I was sleeping in my Prius saving money, I was homeless by choice after I moved to Arizona with my kids mom she has a family out there and some better opportunities to make more money there than Oklahoma and plus I wanted to be a little closer to California for working on this stuff so I was just doing DoorDash, Amazon Flex whatever I could to make money and rebuild waiting for a personal injury money from getting hit by a drunk driver while I was doing Uber so just in a shit spot thinking what the hell has become of my life and I got an email and a message through LinkedIn from a production company in from the UK and they were going to do a documentary on the Kardashians they wanted to ask me about my story I was like oh this is interesting so I had a meeting with the producer and assistant producer and by the time we got done their jaws were dropped and they're just like wow like this needs to be its own story like this needs to be its own documentary so like based on that reaction that triggered me to start my website like if they were that blown away by this maybe the rest of the world will support me and see how fucked up this is and so I in my spare time I didn't have a laptop at the time on my phone I used just the GoDaddy free website builder and I started typing my story out every night took me about a week to get just the basics up there and I just put it all up and then the rest was history like going viral How long did it take? How many years later before you decided that you wanted to write back I mean it was from that point that it happened way back in 2014 through now I found out more and more about the story and the timeline everything started showing itself more and more and in 2015 at the end of 2014 whenever they launched Komoji that was another trigger I'm like oh shit they just literally launched this thing that we created for her that we didn't make any money like what the fuck so that then about 6 months later Instagram released the exact filter that we had filed a patent on and we didn't get a dime out of that and they I'm sitting here listening to recordings of where Kim saying that they didn't ever want to do something like that but then now all of a sudden they are doing that this is blowing my mind so that triggered me again then shortly after that the guy that sent the message, the one that was responsible for sending the message to Jonathan and Kim and getting everything screwed up came forward and told us that he did that because he was asked to do it on purpose and it was intentional so that was another trigger shortly after that we filed lawsuit and it's not like I never stopped fighting or never it's just I never thought about doing the website after the lawsuit, after the settlement offer they tried to tell us hey now you're going to pay our legal fees and it triggered me to ultimately not care if basically any of us get sued at first I was trying to protect my cousin and Narayan still because like if I spoke up about it and we didn't do it together it could potentially get them in trouble and having to pay legal fees because of the private arbitration stuff I was talking about this is so confusing but so I just said fuck it I'm doing it I don't care and so that's kind of what led to the website but I never was not fighting this you can't man you've always got to fight in life no matter what you take for fucking no one I don't give a fuck who you are what they're coming with you with what they're going to try and harm you with everything at you you've got to stand your ground because if you don't they'll smell weakness and I interview gangsters interview people from all around the world killers drug lords bank robbers the real gangsters are the ones sitting in fucking suits taking advantage of the people who think they're weaker than them they've seen a great idea from one opinion looking from the outside is 100% legit or you could be bullshit you could be a guy who's butter against the Kardashians I genuinely don't know about judging by who you are you seem an honest kind hearted man what I see is they've got an app there they've got another app they've got two they've got a great business idea known by their name anything they touch turns to gold no matter what they do they'll make money from it but they've seen an idea where they can make money from it and maybe not become Kardashian it could be the people behind them listen get him away listen they're weak but they've only got this amount of money we can just suffocate them squeeze them so much but they can't fight back and they've not got a leg to stand on no matter if you're in the right anyway they've still lost because of their power so they've seen a money making scheme all they're about is money money and fame I don't know like I said I don't know them fucking personally could be amazing people I genuinely don't know but it looks as if you come up with a great idea you've put your hard down fucking cash you've put your life into it life is going good they've seen a great opportunity and people say but wait a minute why do we need to get them 60% 50% when we can take it all ourselves and then that's when they squeeze like I said it might not be her it could be the people behind her pulling the strings she's just the face of it she doesn't make all the money other people around her will be getting percentages also Instagram could be earning it Facebook could be earning it bigger names like I say we're small fries we're peasants to the people who think they're better than us nobody's better than anybody everybody bleeds the same if you want to fight man you've got to get the gloves on sometimes man stand your fucking ground and fight back because then when it comes to a stage there's nothing to lose I'm just surprised it's 10 years now you're just going fuck it and going all out it's scary as well lose your kids, lose your wife homeless that's scary but then the bottom this comes in the envy seen name everywhere travelling the world making millions they've stole your idea that ideas still making money everybody's lying who do you believe trust issues are shot to fuck who do you then how do you then pick up the pieces without being bitter because if you're on your ass living day by day you're doing ubers well disrespect anybody who's doing ubers but it's a hard fucking job as well especially in your mind you feel as if you should be a multi-millionaire living comfortably relationships strong putting money into new ideas how do you then when how do you then kick on from it and start then going wait a minute life ain't over because you says earlier Kim Kardashian destroyed your life but you did have the other choices to then make other decisions for not it to go so extreme but listen the power of the mind and so much pressure from outside noise it does destroy you no matter who you are if you're getting debt letters through every week you think I can't take this anymore do you know what I mean so how do you then pick up the pieces to then it's a good question because at first I was so obsessed with only making money to fund my fight you know I would tell myself like I could get into this business I could start this business but then I started crunching numbers and I'm like man but I'm only going to be able to max out making this much money with this business and this particular situation and it's not going to allow me to you know pay my legal and so it got to the point where it was kind of controlling my life like things that I would do but is this going to lead me to redemption and getting them held accountable for what they did and getting my money back you know stuff like that so now I'm just kind of going back to my roots and doing what makes sense and you know the success the money will follow and I just need to I'm balancing my my fight a little a little better because I'm not going to be able to do shit if I'm not in a position to do so you know back to basics and luckily this company Legendary USA they actually sent me some stuff a fellow motorcyclist he knew that I was the owner and he actually sent me a bunch of stuff like a care package and it's like I knew at some point somebody would see my skill set and like and see an opportunity maybe and you know not just to help you know but also to create something you know do something else so it's actually turned into like a new you know opportunity for success for me because I get to use everything that I you know the skills that I've acquired over all this time and you know do something that I love and something worthy you know so it was about the time that I was sleeping in my car and right about the time that I got the phone call that kind of triggered me into the website honestly the when I got reached out to you by that company about the documentary what's your whole rundown on it all what do you think happened and why my assessment is you know Kim had the right to not want to do business with us if she knew that there was you know one of us were text messaging somebody that even though it was a private message I shouldn't have even got to her attention you know she did have that right to not want to work with us but when she committed fraud lied and the multiple other things that point to the corruption and the you know the just being fucked up like that that's where like I know there was corruption and fraud like these are facts so you know are they completely horrible people like I'm not gonna sit here and say that I'm not gonna sit here and say I hate them all to be cancelled like their livelihoods taken none of that you know it was fucked up and I want you know if I'm wrong about anything in particular they could speak up you know let's fix this if they at one point tried to settle with me that means that one part of them feels like they were wrong so like let's just handle this like I don't hate you you know think you guys are horrible people like I just it was a fucked up situation we may have done something wrong but you know the three or four wrongs that they did don't correct the wrong that we did and that's not how you do business you know and not for nothing but you know we have a right to text message people private information you know nothing was that wasn't done in any malicious way so it shouldn't have even triggered them to want to pull out in the aggressive way that they did anyways so do you feel that was just an excuse because they had a bigger plan from it yeah I mean this this was Kim trying to be a tech mogul like there was there was media out there at the time back then that she you know she was in her her new game her you know she she was trying to go the tech mogul and you know they really wanted the kimoji thing they really wanted emojis because it was not just them it was like look at all their family they all made at these these emoji apps you know the simple thing that we pitched is just an icing on the cake added app to the one we were already doing it turned into all kinds of celebrities ended up using the same company to do all their emojis too like that company that are making tens of billions of dollars on all that tens of millions on all the emoji apps for all these people from your idea so that's the painful thing that's this thing to then end up homeless so I say though could have possibly not been here your kids not a father because of someone stole your idea listen if it's your idea and everything you're saying is 100% legit then by all means you've got a right to be fucking angry but again if I hope it's not from their sake it's all greed and they're fucking destroying people's lives for their own greed for me karma will always come around but like I say it could be the other people that's pulling the strings we can get this we can fuck them off here make more money because they've got all the contacts they've got all the money what would it take like you said a couple of minutes ago you just want to fix it what does it take to fix what's happened you know if I'd love for them to admit you know the wrongs in it even if it's just I made hole from where I was before you know I don't need you know whatever my lawyers filed lawsuit was like 300 million when I first saw that and the news dropped on it I was like whoa who the hell sued for 300 million it was just the way that the lawyers wrote it up in the it was it's that's not me I don't need 300 million could the patent have been worth a billion dollars could I have been there if it went different maybe but I don't need a billion dollars I just want what I had before back I don't want to have to worry you know in my early 40s about how I'm going to retire and do it all over again you know that's not what I should be worrying about right now how much does it take to then fight back is there still room for it to go to court and have a fight or is the case done there's quite a few angles honestly there's copyright stuff there's trade secrets misappropriations there's you know the trademark fraud itself there's anytime there's fraud involved in something and lies there's really no way to like pinpoint a statute of limitations too because like it's usually that starts when you find out of the last fraud or lie like it's so like there's there's definitely some things that can be done but you know I'm not even going to attempt to do anything legal unless I have the backing to do it right and I know what needs to happen to do it right now you know for sure because I've already been through this for years but for now court of public opinion and me run on my mouth on as many podcasts and you know getting to mainstream as much as I possibly can I'm just going to keep fighting it's going to be as annoying and have them hate me as much as possible can you where's he's at me I'm so yeah he might give you the money to go to court you know I wish I could say I understood him I have no idea what's going on with him but nobody knows what's going on with anybody on this planet and in that life of the Kardashians you don't know if that broke him as well what a talent he is this oh first album is one of the greatest of all time and that life of fame and attention it ain't normal nobody should be idealized on this planet he experienced the Kardashian curse as well and what is the Kardashian curse there there may be some different interpretations but for me it's just you know you you you get you get road blocked you know whatever whatever trajectory you were on for whatever success you were headed towards if you lock into them for any kind of business deal there's a highly likely chance if you're not going straight success afterwards you're done it's like every man mostly men I'm sure there's a lot of women too but mostly you know it's men that are getting affected by the women in the family has anybody else came forward and says they've done the same to them oh yeah absolutely I have quite a few emails not only did I have to do all these case studies for our attorneys you know and dig up every thing about all the times that they've screwed people over I've since I've gone viral over this stuff I've had so many emails and direct messages with people not only the Kardashians but even other people they're like hey let's put attention on this too let's put attention on this too hey I used to work for so and so and they did this or you know I have this this non-disclosure agreement where you know they're gonna hit me for $10,000 every time I say something bad about them and you know they did this so like there's so many people out there that are fucked up and do all these fucked up things and then they basically just use paperwork and non-disparagement agreements and non-disclosures to to just sweep it under the rug how's life now right now yeah it's getting a lot better why do you think it took 10 years that's a good question I mean it took a lot of years to get through all the different stages you know fight of the the different fight stages I guess and just all the support that I've had from everybody and just seeing like what I'm doing is actually getting attention to this and I could actually build a platform out of this that can help other people and like stand up for the underdog you know I ultimately want some kind of foundation out of this that like helps business owners fight corruption if you can't afford your fight and you have a clear case of like you're getting railroaded by somebody so they can make millions of dollars off of your idea like have some kind of a foundation that we could tap into and help people like fight because like you have public defenders you know for people that are in criminal situations can't afford attorneys you have all these other situations but if just a hardworking you know person is building their American dream it doesn't even matter you don't have to be only America just our fellow humans are getting screwed over and anytime there's corrupt situations usually there's other people you're fighting have money and they could afford these lawyers and the best lawyers well they're always going to lose there's something that has to stand up for them at some point there has to be some group that is like you know what fuck this we're going to help these people we're going to start standing up for these people did Facebook know that when Zuckerberg started Facebook did other people not put in complaints because they said they'd helped him build that and they won a big case of 100 million let some serious dole like is that the kind of outcome you want where you want what's owed to you because it was your idea like you say you don't want billions and hundreds of millions but you want what you're owed if that's made whatever much and if you've got the right so 50% or whatever then you deserve your right do you know what I mean fuck it not that I don't deserve it but you know will I continue on fighting until I get hundreds of millions of dollars out of it that's not you know to me if it comes where we owed it for what we put in back then even my partner even my other partners I think we all were owed something for that for sure we have something coming but it doesn't have to be billions what they're doing with their life now your partners I'm not really 100% we don't really talk there's a little bit of animosity from the way everything happened but I keep in touch with Dan you know he's just doing his thing trying to stay below the radar with all this stuff because they can actually go after everyone for legal fees they haven't done it but it's like a tool that they're using Kardashians so that way like if Dan does start speaking up and going on podcasts and stuff like me then they could essentially follow through with his holding you know being responsible for their legal fees and garnished wages and everything so everybody's basically forgetting to shut up have you been discredited or anything what sort of tools and tactics people have tried but it is what it is like people could try to poke holes and whatever but the only other person that could say what happened and why is Kim or Chris and everything else that I'm saying that happened with Dan and Ryan you remember those three of us in the room plus my ex plus all the other people like this shit happened I mean it is what it is fact if there's any differences in the fine details as to why things happen if I'm wrong about something they think I'm wrong about something I'd love to hear it I just can't get over how somebody can steal someone's ideas through a text message they sent to someone who was happy that they just kind of sealed a big deal well if you lie about that message and make it seem like it's a lot worse than it is and it actually broke some kind of like federal like communication guideline of some kind yeah I mean you could you could scare the shit out of somebody and make them think that they really messed up how much would it take for you to then fight back with lawyer fees are you talking millions I think a proper legal budget would be probably three to five hundred thousand dollars that would be covering all of the intellectual property stuff litigation could it be a lot more yeah but that would be like the trial of a century if there's no way they would ever let it go to trial and have a jury say whether or not there's something out of it there's no way that jury would be like give everything to them do they hold all the cards then though as a ball in their court they hold the money cards right now but if I did file again if I had somebody that's like you know what let's do this let's sue them how much you need and they're like basically came with me and like we could do this right like I think that would force them to have to deal with it because right now they're just going to ignore it they have two choices either ignore it and hope it goes away or any attention they put on it whether they talk about it on the show whether they put some more legal into it and try to sue me any attention they put on it is going to be putting a megaphone on the situation and make them have to basically deal with it so they'd offered you a deal a settlement this was right before we filed lawsuit in 2019 before I filed lawsuit in 2019 so they'd offered you money did you reject that? I did what happens if you accepted it then that's it over no more fighting? I would have had to sign something saying I never talk about it again never talk bad about them again or anything like that what would you have been happy with? three to five million because that's with compound interest and everything that's what I'd be worth now if I didn't do any of that so you rejected that then what happens how hard was it to reject? it wasn't really hard because I wasn't going to be able to do shit with that that was barely going to get me out of the legal it was a joke to me I had a number that had to be at least that number or else it was just and who offered you that? that was their attorney how much was it to then put a complaint to say that you're fighting it how much did you have to spend? how much did I have to spend about as much as they offered? so what happens when you reject it then the money you've put into that you lose it? that then give you some confidence that I've got something here I had a lot of attorneys I had intellectual property attorneys one firm I had multiple different groups of attorneys you get to dealing with shit like that and then patent stuff and everything you almost have to have an army of attorneys it sucks so bad it just never stops but the main guy actually when he heard a mutual connection with one of the guys that was involved with sending the message to the Alice girl so he actually heard about this from the inside and reached out to us and said hey I'll be your litigation attorney I'll do this on contingency I don't need anything I just want to be a part of the deal this same guy he didn't do anything for us like this guy I'm not going to call him out but let's just say he didn't do shit but he also put in his bio on his website that he helped us with the Kim Kardashian case so like he's the kind of guy that he just wants it on he just wants the credit he's got on his list on his bio all the people he's worked with but he's never really done anything major in any of it like a celebrity chaser really kind of mess this up so there's just decisions that I made but at the same time you still got to take risks and chances like I didn't have the money like okay pay somebody either find funding for three, four, five hundred grand to do this right or let's give this guy a shot yeah you've nothing to lose you took a shot and it's fucking backfired you're going to get that, that's life that is full of ups and downs it makes me stronger let's do this shit but again it made you weaker at some points as well you're fucking ready to take your own lives and that's the sad thing about it life does beat people down enough where they feel as if there's no way out and sometimes the only way out is I want to stop this noise up here so I'll just end that and it doesn't have to be that way everybody's got fighting them the ones that make it through that are usually the ones that kick on they know what it's like to be there and the bottom line is as long as you've got food in your belly you can still give a lot more as long as you've got air in your lungs I'm not done yet time is the essence time is the precious thing and you don't want to be wasting another 10 years talking the same shit exactly there's got to be a time you go fuck this I'm going all out and you know what if it doesn't work I'll make that money back you've got to have that belief you had that kid that made it anyway you've still got that but you just went down that other route that was the card you were dealt but then it's how you play those cards now like I say everything's choices that destroyed your life but also you destroyed your life because you could have handled things better as well I felt bad about you know feeling bad for myself and getting in that yeah that happens man I've done it for myself for years if I'd have the mindset now I wanted to drink I wanted to take drugs I wanted to hide, mask the pain pretend do you know what I mean so we blame everybody else sometimes you'll probably blame Kim Kardashian but again you made those decisions you made those choices you didn't have to get into bed with her and make all those percentages and apps and give her ideas they should remember a bit more it'll just kick you on and learn from the next meetings you go to and who the fuck you're involved with it's all a learning curve how do you then what's the plans with it for the future like I say if it goes on another 10 years you might not have that and yeah so what's the plans for the future with it all I'm just kind of rolling with the platform that's kind of being created around me like all the support I'm getting from everybody it's like I feel like I'm creating value by turning that into something that can like not just make noise about what's going on with the Kim Kardashian thing with me but like all the other stuff you know if that turns into you know being like a anti-hero underdog kind of business you know where we tell stories you know that need to be told and you know like I said start some kind of foundation that starts actually pushing back on some of the corrupt things going on like to me starting some kind of and then obviously me like working and you know saving and doing everything that I need to do like that's where my focus is going to be and I'm not going to let the Kardashian thing like run my life but I'm also not going to let it go entirely you can't let it go so it's just like you came to a fund though it's a balance for me I don't want to be doing the same shit in 10 years without you know any kind of punishment on their end or them having to answer for anything or even talk about it like there's no way that I can go 10 years from now without them dealing with it but I'll definitely not be in the same position I'll be back where I was and then some the next 10 years you know so I'm still trying to figure that out right now to be honest with you Yeah but as long as you're still here like I said it's 10 years is a lot and you're not just going up against like I've said it's one of the biggest families on this planet they control social media one post can destroy life and they ain't going to mention it because it then brings too much attention that gives you something to play with that gives you leverage to then who is this guy they've got two bigger followings they basically give me the funding overnight yeah so that's got them kind of in the choke hold right now so they couldn't but what would it take for her to try and fix it if she called and says look I was nothing to do with it I apologize would you accept an apology um if the apology came with me being made whole again financially I would yeah I would accept it if it was just like a fake you know I'm sorry I didn't mean it to go that way sorry for committing fraud and lying to you like you know without like making sure that I'm not struggling to make ends meet like you know you nearly took your life bro yeah I mean everything that I put into all of the the apps and everything that I had going on at the time all was lost so I had to displace that money and start selling stuff sell my house had a move I still had bills to pay like big legal fees and everything to pay but with no I basically took some of the last little bit of money I had and started a food truck company put a couple of food trucks out and tried to generate cash flow to stop the bleeding and so it worked out but it just wasn't enough to fight the I had success with those businesses but it just wasn't enough to overcome the bleeding and my divorce and you know my kids started acting out you know they had rough time it was just it was a mess the men ain't got nothing divorce is only set up for I feel your ford men there's no positives and divorce for any man on this planet that family destroyed my whole family's mental health because the excitement of going in partnership with them because my whole family went out there they didn't all come to the meeting but like my business partner that my brother-in-law was telling me about that we had the business like he was like my you know just a buddy that went with me out there to California and just like be supportive and it's like all these people were witnesses to this whole thing too and how it all went down like we're all on cloud nine super stoked and then everything just like when it all went to shit like everything you know my kids just didn't really understand why you know they thought you know I'm sure like well I'm sure my dad he's the one that was in charge of everything he somehow let it get messed up and so like I was like a hero to somehow the you know ass end of this complete you know shit storm now and I felt horrible about myself I felt like my kids hated me you know my wife they're not going to say we had the most perfect marriage but that was like that was it because you would have lost yourself completely mentally, physically, financially spiritually that sort of stuff does damage people I get later from I've had a man on who's maintenance back home when men are split up with relationships and the women want money off them and they're just getting sent letters all the time people are ending their life for a few thousand pound in debt because there's so much pressure so when you've got it against like I say one of the biggest families on the planet one of the biggest followings all that money is going to eventually mentally break you because then in your time would imagine you're thinking was I to blame, was I the right, wasn't I wrong have you write to fight back and get what you're owed never quit man, never give up I believe you will come out better in the long run you've just got to stay true to you don't be a dick about it don't be bitter about it but still fight but people go do you know what I like that guy and then whatever controls the universe or whatever goes on they give you a break then you go do you know what it was ten years of pain but I'm paying for it now yeah that's well said let's go forward for the future brother watch our plans I'm in work mode man just busting my ass doing everything that I need to do taking every opportunity and just running you know fast as I can no vacation for me for a long time do you feel as if you're coming back to your old self I do I do I feel like now that I kind of have a life line you know the job that like fits me doesn't even feel like I'm working honestly it's just things are a lot better man if the Kardashians are watching what message would you have for the Kardashians if they're seeing this I would just ask why did it have to happen the way that it happened again you know they know how messed up the situation it was and it could have just went a much different way so just why did it's like it was almost like a social experiment for them to watch these three partners and their families just scramble to try to figure out what the hell is going on and it's just fucked up so I would just ask why hopefully he can get it resolved hopefully he can get the money and go do you know what that's it done hopefully it can be put to bed before it gets uglier and messier and hopefully brings all our negative attention towards them especially if they're in the wrong they'll not want to be going to court cases like I said they'll be dealing with their own shit mentally as well with that sort of life the pressures that they're under nobody really knows what they're going on ever because of everything you see in TV in magazines it's all fakes not just them but everybody they'll have their own struggles and mental health and suicidal thoughts and try to protect their kids no doubt they'll have their goodness in them the same as everybody on this planet hopefully he can resolve it hopefully things good you know what there's the money take your own and let's go on with our lives you know what I mean so families shouldn't be destroyed by lies and deceit and fucking dishonesty but this is the way of the world brother it's fully out there everybody's out of fucking fuck everybody over hate on each other, jealous of each other envy of each other, angry at each other it's not the way life should be it should be full of fucking happiness and goodness there's going to be obstacles but as long as you don't have a break don't have a bend and it goes for anybody it's in a struggle right now don't fucking let life grind you down because just give it another day go off to the next day and just work on yourself okay I don't know what I'm going to be here tomorrow don't make a life decision based on what you're feeling in the heat of that moment that's huge because you never know how you're feeling one day to the next it could be because I've had men who've been suicidal some of the mad bastards who've been suicidal they've stuck by it they've not went through with it and then before you know it a few years later they've got the misses, they've got the kids and they're loving life and just with that decision at that moment it could have been different what's your biggest life lesson brother that you've learnt so far I mean that's one of them just what we're talking about right now you know depression is temporary and you know don't don't make a decision now in the heat of a moment while you're stressed or sad or any of these things like give it time like so that's that's one of the biggest things that I've I've learned that and don't trust anybody don't trust anybody when it comes to money it's the root of all evil and that's the way it is and money is an illusion I'll always say that it doesn't really mean anything but we give it so much meaning and power we let it destroy us and don't use your own money basically don't do anything stay in the house, keep yourself safe and just lock the doors yeah how can people get in contact with you people who want to support you watch your social media, watch your website www.kimcardashinroommylife.com just any support whether you're reading my story, sharing my my socials at David Liebensen on Instagram, D Liebensen on Tiktok, at David Liebensen on YouTube you guys could also support me by doing any business with legendary USA, they're amazing it helps me directly they're a motorcycle brand, motorcycle, apparel leather, just a solid company they actually have a I gotta be careful how I say it because the way that they do this, but the there's a certain group of elite people that fly jets and they have, they actually we make their jackets as well so that's pretty cool David, would you like to finish up on anything else? that's really it, I just appreciate you giving me a platform to tell my story and I just appreciate everybody's support listen, thanks for coming on today I genuinely wish you nothing but the best for the future I believe you're a good guy, I believe big things are going to happen for you just stick with it, keep going and if you ever need to speak to anybody, you know I'm there brother I appreciate that God bless you mate