 Welcome to tonight's common council meeting before we start our council meeting. We asked city clerk Sue Richards to read the quote of the week. Thank you, mayor Resolved to make at least one person happy every day and in 10 years you may have made 3,000 people happy or brighten the equivalent of a small town by your contribution to the fund of general enjoyment Thank you, and sue it Sue is halfway there. Yeah, right call the 19th regular meeting of the common council to order Please call the roll Boren, Bauch, Decker, Gisha, Hannah, Heidemann, Kittlesen, Clioness, Meijer, Montemayor, Rindfleisch, Ryan, Suric, Vanderweel, Verhasselt, and Wangeman. Excuse 15 present. Quorum is present. At this time I'd ask everyone rise to site the pledge of allegiance. Oldman Bauch, would you please lead us? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Oldman Bauch. Approval of the minutes, president. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Motion second to approve minutes under discussion. There is none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes stand approved. Next item is resignations. Attorney McLean Thank you, Your Honor. The mayor received an e-mail from Grace Starnella advising that she needs to resign from the mayor's international committee. That's for motion to accept the resignation. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to accept Grace's resignation. Second. Motion second to accept resignation under discussion. There is none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Public forum. Madam City Clerk. Thank you. First this evening would be Henry Capitulo. Henry, can you get the mic a little bit closer to where you will be and then I just need your home address please. Sure. I fixed it then there's no charge. That'd be great. And your home address Henry? That's 1619 North 38th Street and that's in the town of Sheboygan. Okay. And you will have five minutes. Okay. How many wrong page here already. Thank you for the opportunity to come before this council to speak on a very important issue. The city of Sheboygan's primary and spring election. I come to speak to the voters of the city of Sheboygan who I know watch these council meetings. If there was any other forum which I could address the voters of Sheboygan I would gladly do so but I will get that to that issue at a later date. As you know there are quite a few individuals that are seeking the office of mayor and some all dramatic seats that are being contested. I plead with the voters of Sheboygan to seriously look at each person that is seeking public office in this election cycle and determine if they are truly worthy of your vote. You may ask what should we be considering expecting of these candidates. My response to you is the following. Keeping property taxes is not the only important issue. It does not matter how low your taxes are if you cannot afford to pay them because you lose your job and the new job that you have only pays minimum wage. I believe that one of the main issues in this election should be job creation job expansion and maintaining existing jobs in the community. And I mean good paying jobs not just jobs like waiters waitresses hotel cleaning jobs and other low paying jobs that have been created by this administration. I ask you to look at the jobs that have been lost over the last year. Three hundred and fifty jobs at Pentair. Ten to fifteen at Zur Hades. Fifty to sixty at Polarware. And one thing that all of these places have in common is that the president administration did not have a clue that these companies were going to leave or were closing down. What does this say about this administration that they are out of touch with some of the business community in the city Sheboygan. How can you expect to keep good paying jobs in the city if you are not able to keep in touch with the manufacturing businesses in the community. It is my understanding that State Assemblyman Terry Van Akron was instrumental in setting up a meeting with the Pentair management with city and Sheboygan County officials to see if they would reconsider leaving the city. Look at the candidates who are presently holding office and see what their track record is in working to create good paying jobs. New candidates what they what they have that have not held public office how they plan to create or attract good paying jobs to the city of Sheboygan. How many times have you heard the administration of how important it is to develop the South Pier district in Blue Harbor. Their emphasis has always been on developing tourism jobs which have traditionally paid lower wages and are sometimes seasonal employment. Individuals cannot raise a family on low wages and seasonal employment. They need full time and good paying jobs. Look at the candidates who presently hold office and see how they have voted in their committees as to job creation job expansion and maintaining existing jobs in the community. For candidates who presently hold office look at what these candidates are proposing to do and how it reflects on promises that they have made in the past. Are they credible truthful or believable. Look close to their pass record. Do they follow through on what they say they plan to do or is it just political grandstanding. Consider the following phrases like action speak louder than words. Lead by example. I don't promises mean nothing. A person's word is his bond. Seeing is believing. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. What do all these phrases have in common value of commitment truthfulness and believability. How many times have you heard people say well all politicians make promises that they cannot keep. My response to that is then you should hold them accountable at the ballot box for their failure to follow through on their campaign promises. Politicians will continue to make idle promises if you are not willing to hold them accountable. It is it is time to hold our elected officials accountable and demand that they look out for the best interest of the city of Sheboygan and the taxpayers. One thing that the city has in common with the state of Wisconsin and the U. S. government is that it is struggling to get its financial house in order. The federal government is looking to spend trillions of dollars to stimulate the economy. The state of Wisconsin is looking to the federal government to help bail out its financial shortfalls. The residents of Sheboygan look to their elected officials to have reassurance that they are doing everything within their power to keep good paying jobs and attract good jobs to the city of Sheboygan and Sheboygan County. Not long ago I remember hearing the city assessor in these chambers call for the city to look at what the city of Manitowoc has done to attract good paying jobs in their community and the city should look at their economic endeavors and accomplishment. In closing, I would say again, I think it's important for... Excuse me, Henry, would you like your additional minute? Yes. I think it's important for the people that are in this community to see what's happening in other parts of this country where people are losing their jobs, are losing their homes, can't make their mortgages. I know that I just read an article not too long ago from the Ken King which said that there's an increase on mortgage late payments and also foreclosures even in the city of Sheboygan. So my request for the individuals that are out there is seriously look at what the candidates are proposing and see what their track record is. See if it's believable, see if it's doable and again, hold them responsible at the ballot box. Thank you very much. Thank you. And last on our list is Joanne Scribner. Joanne, if you could please come up to the front and I will need your address, please. Three Seneca Trail, Sheboygan. Three Seneca. Yes. Okay. And you will have five minutes. Thank you. First of all, I'd like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas belatedly, either last year or very early for 09 and a very happy new year of 2009. I was going to play the CD for you tonight, but that hasn't probably been done, a common council before so. But if I would, I would have played number five, I Listen to the Bells by Luther Van Dross and Darlene Love, Listen to the Bells. So of course I brought some of my bells along with me from my bell collection and you will see how this relates to Sheboygan, trust me. Okay. Okay, bells, Sheboygan, church bells, come to church, hymns and carols, Christmas carols, played on church bells. Like Trinity Lutheran Church, you've probably heard the church Christmas carols from Trinity Lutheran. Faulton Park Church, Ring Church Bells, come to church, services, Merlin Rush rings the bells every single time, I think, for church services. Service Ice Guy, Merlin Rush, been around forever. Bell Choir, Faulton Park Church, Eileen Bailey, so much fun, in fact I skipped out of rehearsal tonight to be here, but I told her. So we're okay. Bells at school, get to class. Hey, school's out, yay. 330-230 Bells at Heritage Mutual Insurance Company, we're talking the old heritage back on North 23rd and Kohler Memorial Drive, I used to work there. Bells for break, yay, back to work, not so much fun. Bells, they don't have bells anymore at a Q&A. I think they're thankful, no more bells. I guess they even have a heritage date at Acuity now where they dress up in old clothes of the 70s or something, or maybe the 60s, whenever, old, imagine. Heritage date, I found this out from one of my sources that actually my friend worked there also had heritage at 1.2. So, Prangies, remember the old H.C. Prangie, I think they had bells there, ding, ding, ding. I think this is correct, no. Don't quote me, I may, my memory may not be quite right there. And as I said, I do have a collection of bells. Door County Bell, Floward, okay. White Porcelain Bell, two Crystal Pring Hands Bells, two Wyoming Bells, three South Dakota Bells, one Nebraska Bell, one Montana Bell, one more Door County Bell, one Wisconsin Al Capone Hideout Bell, yes. One Kentucky Bell that's also in here, two Minnesota Bells, they're both in here. One Dutch Lady Bell, I didn't bring that, that's breakable. One Chicago Bell, one Bell from a lady who used to live in Chicago, worked here, left that home too, also breakable. One Ocean City, Maryland Bell, 150th wedding anniversary bell from Morrison L. Jocelyn, my parents, married July 1st, 1944. One beautiful White Porcelain Bell, Floward, Gary and Joanne, 25th anniversary, October 6th, 1979. I used to have a brass bell from, but I got it at Abu Dhabi or Dubai or Amman, Jordan, one of those places. You know what happened to that thing? I was at the Greyhound Bus Depot in Tallahassee one time. Sitting in the seat next to me, some guy ran right past there, took my purse with a bell and my bus ticket. The whole purse is gone, my bell. But I do have this, still that is from one of those places, either Jordan or Abu Dhabi. So we're okay. And then I had an old fashioned school bell, also brass with a red bow on it. And of course I like school, schools. Got that from a sweet old lady who used to live on North 25th Street. 24 bells total, minus the one stolen in Tallahassee, but not a problem. I did find this brass bell, back to 24 bells. So what do bells have to do with Sheboygan? Just two points this time. One, the church bells, you know, come to church services, bells played at weddings, at funerals. You know, unfortunately, you know, divorce and adultery and death and even murder, you know, can happen because of the unfaithfulness. And as you probably read the press on January 3rd, saw the recent terrible tragedy here in Sheboygan. It's not an easy thing, you know, death, murder, awful. Sad for all, just feel sad for everybody involved. And yes, we miss those loved ones, especially at Christmas time, you know, about the blue Christmas. I had one of those this year. But even in these death issues are Sheboygan police force, the Sheboygan fire department. Excuse me, Joanne, would you like your extra minute? Yes, please. Okay, go ahead. The Sheboygan fire department ambulances, the Orange Cross ambulances, they are doing their job and they are doing it well. And speaking of the Sheboygan police department, thank you very much police chief David Kirk for all of your years of service here in Sheboygan. And to you and your wife, enjoy that well-earned retirement. And congratulations also to the new interim chief of police, Lieutenant Tim Irick. And hats off to all of you police officers and firefighters that may have gotten promotions in 2008. I know of one friend of mine who said he got a promotion. I think great way to go. Number two, school bells. I have not taught or been an educational assistant in the Sheboygan area school district for about four years now. But I will be back very shortly. So I'm not personally aware of the courses currently being taught. This may really be a Sheboygan school board issue. So I'm sorry. Maybe I should not be bringing this up here. But my question is, why can the public schools, even nationwide, promote the religion of humanism and not the religion of Christianity? Excuse me, Joanne. Done? Yeah. Okay, that is my question. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's it for the seat. Thank you very much. Thank you to those who addressed the council tonight. Next item on the agenda is a mayor's comments. I've got some comments on our snow removal efforts. Here and there I get calls from the public with concerns about our snow removal efforts to why a certain street wasn't plowed adequately, or why the streets are getting narrower, or why the streets haven't been salted, or why the streets are being cleaned late, or not early enough and so forth. So I just wanted to give the council and the public a brief description of what the work that we've done to date. We've only had snow from November 24th to December 30th, but in that, during that time, we have responded to 13 snowfall events. Now by snowfall events, that's when the snow actually falls. It compels us to go out and do something about that. So if you look at 13 snowfall events in the last month in a couple of days, that's almost one snowfall every other day, every other day and a half. So that's a lot of snow. We are being pounded by Mother Nature again, just like we did last year. And there's no indication that Mother Nature is going to let up on us in the next couple of months, or three months. Two of those events have resulted in the snow emergency being declared, and that's within the last 30 days. So when the snow emergency is declared, people need to react and move their cars. We have received approximately 55 inches of snow to date. Folks, that's a lot of snow. It's really a lot of snow. We're way ahead of last year's pace at this time, the snow we had had by this time last year. And when you look at 55 inches of snow to date, it's a lot of snow and a lot of accumulation. So in itself, the accumulation presents a lot of issues for the Public Works Department. During snowfall events, the DPW Department of Public Works deploys various pieces of equipment, and they make multiple passes on emergency routes and any other streets, hills, and difficult areas to get to. The equipment is deployed. There's a very sound schedule to do that, very accountable schedule, very responsive schedule, but we do what we can with the equipment that we can and the people that we have. The Department of Public Works has made about 23 rounds to date, and by that is cleaning the entire areas. 23 rounds of 200 centerline miles of street. 23 rounds of 200 miles of centerline street. And that equates to about 4,600 miles of centerline miles or 9,200 miles of curb line for this snow season today. That is a lot of area to cover with the people that we have and the equipment that we have. We have used about 2,400 tons of salt that we have, which is about half of the salt that we actually contracted for the entire year. We contracted for 4,800 tons, and we've used about half. And we still have January, February, and March, and a little bit of April here and there to deal with. So as of now, I can tell you were pretty short in the snow for what we anticipate to fall. Currently, we do pay $45 a ton. We have paid $45 a ton for the contract snow that or the contract salt that we have. When that is gone, if we have to go out of the normal process, which we'll have to do because we don't have a contract anymore, we will probably be looking at paying $150 a ton. So it almost does triple, a little over triple the cost. And that's just the way it is. Not unique to Sheboygan. A lot of municipalities in the state of Wisconsin and other states that have heavy snowfall are going to be doing the same thing. So that's where we're up again. In mid-December, we started using salt sparingly because of that. We've used half of our stock already. So we are already using it sparingly. And that's the discretion of the Department of Public Works director and the crew. This year again, I will ask the council to fund an adequate salt shed. I don't know where that's going to go, but I believe that having an adequate salt shed will allow us to have the necessary salt for the number of months that we have salt, just so we can contract it, buy it at the $45 a ton instead of $150 a ton, and be able to store it in stockings for days of emergency. This week, we started widening certain narrow streets and parking impacted areas. We did that because people have been calling. Bill Bidner, director of public works, had already been working on the plan to do that. And I do wish to announce to the public that those areas are being widened now to the extent that we possibly can. A lot of the snow is frozen right now, so we're having to deal with that issue itself. All in all, I'm asking for your help. I would ask that you help us by, first of all, being patient with our snow cleaning efforts. We're not ignoring the situation. We're not neglecting our responsibility. We're being as extremely responsive as we possibly can in dealing with the situation. We have very committed people at the Department of Public Works that really care and know what they're doing and go out about and do it, but it's hard to keep up with the snowfall. I also ask that people move their cars when they're supposed to. We get a lot of complaints of people not moving their cars. Subsequently, snow plows have to go around, and if they go around pretty much every single time, they're going to bury their car. And in addition to having that car bury, they're going to get a ticket. And they're going to get a ticket because we need the public to comply with our ordinances so we can clean the streets, not because we need any money. I'd rather not have the money, and that's not the issue. The issue is to move the car so we can adequate clean the streets. I would also ask that the people help by cleaning around the fire hydrants when they're able to. We haven't had a real bad fire during the winter months, during the winter time yet, but if we were to have one, we certainly would like to have those fire hydrants cleaned. And in the past, the fire department has sent out crews to clean, but there's too many of them. So we ask the public to help us when they're able to. Also, I would ask that the public do their share to clean their sidewalks and driveways. I get calls from people who say my neighbor or a resident, a block away, has not cleaned their sidewalks. I almost fail. I can't walk through it. I have to walk in the streets. So I ask that the public help us out by cleaning their sidewalks and their driveways as soon as they possibly can. And then, of course, I also ask for your help in driving more carefully when it's snowing and when there's a snow emergency out there. And if you really don't need to go somewhere, stay home. I get a lot of concern from the Department of Public Works and the police and fire departments that ask us if you don't need to go somewhere during a snow emergency, it's best to stay home. It helps us clean our streets better. It helps police be more responsive and fire department be more responsive. And it keeps us citizens out of harm's way also. And then, of course, I would ask that you help us by understanding that this is Wisconsin and we get lots of snow and we just have to deal with that. And finally, if the public has any concerns, I'd ask that they call the Department of Public Works and express their concerns there if they get no results and they should call an unholyman or the mayor's office. And I would like to thank the Department of Public Works, Bill Bidner for the hard work and for his crew for the hard work that they're doing to date. We anticipate a lot more snow bill and I know you'll be on top of that. I appreciate that. Also, thanks to the fire department who are ready to go whenever necessary. Thank God they haven't been deployed yet. And, of course, to the police department for the work that they've done. And speaking of the police department, I'd like to extend my congratulations to Interim Chief Tim Iric and congratulate him and introduce Interim Chief Iric to the public and to the, I believe the council already know it, but I'd like to ask him to come up here real quickly, Chief, if you would. Chief Iric was chosen from a slate of four candidates by the police and fire commission and there was no shortage of good qualified candidates. Unfortunately, only one could be selected. Chief Iric was selected and he used them in. I'll turn the mic on. Pretty safe. I guess I didn't expect to speak, so make it very brief, Mayor. I just want to extend my sincere appreciation for all the support, Mayor, from you, common council members for this interim position. I look forward to the challenges that we have upcoming. We've lost a lot of our command staff, but I think with challenges also becomes some ideas where new ideas can be implemented within our department. And I also look forward to working with each and all of you to enhance our department over the next year. So, and again, I'd like to extend that open door. If you have any questions, anything you need to know about the police department or need to know our question about us, please call or please stop in. We have a nice new facility. Hopefully you all made it there. And if you haven't, I'd be more than happy to take you through it and show it because we're extremely proud of it. Again, thank you very much. And I look forward to working with you in 2009. Thank you, Chief. And on that good note, I will stop talking and we will proceed. Consent agenda. President, I was 19-1 through 19-6. You're right. I'd like to pull forward 19-6 before I go on with the consent, if I might. Please do. You're going to make a motion? That would be, I'll make a motion to put the ROB accepted and placed on file. To accept and adopt the reported committee. Yeah, I'm sorry. Accept and adopt the reported committee. Second. There's a motion and a second. And that is being pulled out for a separate vote, Alderman. After that, we'll take a vote on the remaining five items and the consent agenda. Any discussion on the 19-6? There'll be a non-pluscular rule. Warren. Aye. Bauch. Decker. Gisha. Aye. Hanna. Abstain. Heidemann. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. Kleinis. Aye. Meyer. Montemayor. Aye. Rindflige. Aye. Ryan. Aye. Zurich. Aye. So, we're finished with the exception of six. I'll promote any discussion on those remaining items. Oh, I need a motion to make a motion for all ROs be accepted and placed on file and all RCs be accepted and adopted. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is no discussion. Please call the roll. Bauch. Aye. Decker. Aye. Gisha. Aye. Hanna. Aye. Renfleisch, Ryan, Zurich, Vanderweel, Verhasselt, and Warren, 15 ayes. Motion carries. Communications and petitions, 19-7 to be referred. Report of officers 2, 19-8 through 19-16 to be referred. Resolutions introduced 3, 1917 by Oldman Ryan, improving the terms and conditions of the contract of sale of land for private redevelopment by the buy and between the redevelopment authority and the Javi companies LLC for the former Kingsbury property, Oldman Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move for suspension of the rules. Is there a second? Second. Is there any objection? Is there an objection or an explanation? There is no objection, so please proceed. Okay. Explanation, Your Honor. We have in the works a $250,000 Department of Commerce Brownfields grant for this particular property that will not be issued until the developer's agreement is complete. And this is a time sensitive manner and therefore this is why we are moving to suspend the rules this evening. Yeah, I just need a motion to put the resolution upon its passage. And I do motion to put the resolution upon its passage. Motion and second. Any further discussion on that? Are you done? Are we on the suspension or on the passage? On the passage. This is a, this is the Javi companies is going to develop this property. It's great for the city of Sheboygan. Minimum investment of $5.7 million on this property. It will be two and three bedroom apartments, which will be some market rate, some affordable rate, and a $300,000 price tag on the property itself. So it's, it's a, a good move to expand the tax base in the city. Thank you. Thank you. I want to tell you this. Thank you, Your Honor. The question was answered. I just wanted to know what kind of construction is going to be on the property. Thank you. Any other discussion? I would like to extend my thanks to Paulette Enders and Chad. They've done an incredible amount of work here. This is, as was noted, will expand the tax base. This is probably one of the few leftover pieces of land of this size in the city. And it's going to be put to good use as far as development and as far as expanding the tax base. So Paulette, Chad, thank you very much. There is no more discussion. Please call the roll. Decker, Gisha, Hannah, Heidemann, Kittlesen, Clioness, Meyer, Montemayor, Rinfleisch, Ryan, Zurich, Banderwheel, Rehassel, Boren, and Bulk. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 1918, lies over. 1919 through 1923 to be referred. Report of committee 6, 1924 by finance. Recommended filing documents submitting a communication from the town of Wilson requesting that the city pay $22,900 for the partial pay in a panther avenue that was inadvertently done by the town based on the Department of Transportation certifying the miles wrong and approving the payment. All in Gisha. Thank you, Your Honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Second. Motion and second under discussion. Vice President Boren. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm going to vote no on this tonight as I did in the finance committee. I had a couple calls from constituents about this issue and while the city did benefit from this paving on panther avenue over in my district and I want to keep good relations with the town of Wilson, the Department of Transportation made an error in the map that they provided to the town of Wilson and therefore they went ahead and actually paved in the city of Sheboygan. I wish the town of Wilson would check with the Department of Transportation first seeing they made the error and have the the the state of Wisconsin Department of Transportation pay the $22,900 instead of the city of Sheboygan and for that reason I'm not going to support this. Thank you. Thank you. Any other discussion? There is none. Please call the roll. Yasha. Hannah. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clioness. Meyer. Montemayor. Rinfleisch. I'm sorry. Thank you. Ryan. Zurich. Vanderwheel. Verhassell. Born. Bauch. And Decker. Leveneis. Four Noes. Motion carries. 1925 by law and licensing recommending the nine beverage operators license number 8110 based on the applicant's ineligibility to wholly license Vice President Bourne. Thank you Your Honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Motion and second. Under discussion. Under discussion Your Honor is B.D. Johnson here tonight. She's not here Your Honor. Thank you. Please proceed. Miss Johnson was convicted of a felony for manufacture and delivery of drugs and that felony makes her ineligible for the license so that's why we decided not to grant it. Very well thank you. Any other discussion? There being none please call the roll. Hannah. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clioness. Meyer. Montemayor. Rinfleisch. Ryan. Zurich. Vanderwheel. Verhassell. Born. Bauch. Decker. And Gisha. 15 Noes. Motion carries. Report of officers eight 1926 by committee of the whole recommending creating a temporary government structure committee as to the economic and administrative feasibility of having a city manager or city administrator versus a full-time mayor and a corporate council versus a city attorney and passing the attached substitute resolution. Alderman Bauch. Thank you Your Honor. I'd move that the the report be accepted and adopted in the substitute resolution be put upon its passage. Second. Motion and second under discussion. Thank you Your Honor. I would just explain the committee of the whole had a good discussion about this process and that the only change we made to the resolution was to accelerate the process so this do no later the first recommendation we do no later the March 16th so that this can the first way in can be done before the current election is held so that the candidates some of the candidates will be held to weigh in on their opinion of some of these things. They'll have some time to do that and then seeing how the committee didn't feel that the office of the mayor should have to be responsible for appointing members to a committee that would be looking into the office of the mayor the role of the mayor so the committee thought it was important to help help that process out and appoint some and again there's some great members on there all city city people but people who have an outreach to the board of education the board of the county board and then some private citizens so that about wraps it up. There's no more discussion please call roll. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clayunis. Meyer. Montemayor. Rindfleisch. Ryan. Zurich. Vanderwheel. Berhassel. Bourne. Falk. Decker. Gisha. And Hannah. 15 ayes. Motion carries. Matters laid over 11 1836 resolution number 175809 by Alderman Gisha, Clayunis, Bourne, Bauch and Montemayor authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2008 budget. Establishing revenue and appropriation for contribution received by the senior center from the friends of senior center for printing expenses and appropriation for me library operating expenses approved by the library board. Alderman Gisha. Thank you your honor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none please call roll. Kittleson. Clayunis. Meyer. Montemayor. Rindfleisch. Ryan. Zurich. Vanderwheel. Berhassel. Bourne. Bauch. Decker. Gisha. Hannah. And Heidemann. 15 ayes. Motion carries 1837 RC number 35060809 by the group health insurance committee recommending authorizing engaging the services of an independent audit and firm to review the city's medical benefit plan claims experience for the years 2006 seven and eight. Alderman sir. Thank you your honor I move that the reporter committees be accepted and adopted and the resolution be put upon his passage. Motion and second. Under discussion. Who did who did the second I'm sorry. Who second. I didn't hear a second. Nobody second. Is there a second to that motion? Second. Motion second. Under discussion. Alderman Montemayor. Thank you your honor we had two insurance committee meetings and these questions were thoroughly and completely answered by Terry Hansen so I do not support spending more money on this. Thank you President Hannah. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I believe in the regular course of our standard audit the current auditing form firm at the direction Terry Hansen can gather this information and include it in the ordinary audit. There's no need to have a separate audit or a separate firm brought in and in the management letter they can express their opinion on the comparability over those three years. So I won't support this because I believe it can be done by our regular auditing firm. You want to make a motion to file in? I would make a motion to file. Is there a second second. Under discussion on the motion to file I've got a light blinking right now. Anybody on the motion to file Alderman's uh rain pleasure over next? I think we have a motion that we need to act on right now. Motion to accept. It was seconded. I do an idea of vote on that one first before we go on to the motion file or does the motion file overrule everything else? Motion to file is always take over. Take precedence yes. No that my comment would be a second additional motion. Okay on the motion to file no one okay I'm going to turn off the lights if there is any discussion. On the motion to file please call the roll. Oh who would like to speak? Oh let me kill us on the motion to file. Thank you Your Honor. No I just I want clarification on this. We're going to file this communication because the audit has already or just explain again please. Please put it on. Mr. Mayor this year the I think the audience from the shank and associates the Green Bay Office does the audit. Terry Hansen will request that they meet these standards in their in their ordinary course of doing the audit so we don't have to create another audit function or expense or expense. Thank you. Alderman Kittleson you want like. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Alderman sorry. Yeah just for clarification I expect to move the motion being there to have an audit under the resolution as stated but have it done by shank. Is that correct? No the motion is to file. Well the direction to Terry Hansen is in that direction. Okay. Alderman Rahasel. Thank you Your Honor. Seeing cost as a concern is there an idea of what that cost might be if we did hire an independent auditor. We have an idea from experience past history have we done this before do we know what cost we're avoiding? No I don't have any cost but whatever it costs it's certainly going to be needless because we have a auditing firm that does this for us. The reason I ask I'm sorry to follow up I guess if this is successful I'm sure this person could pay for themselves or this firm could pay for themselves four times over depending on what the results are you know the whole idea behind this is to recommend reductions in cost and so on so I'm all right spending the money as long as there's that potential for upside which I think there probably is so I'm just curious what that cost might be up front. President Hanna was going to address you. Sure I think Mr. Mayor I think that shank and associates will achieve exactly what Alderman Rahasel is attempting to achieve under our our existing contract with them. I understand what he's trying to accomplish but they're held to an accounting standard so they will certainly do the job within those standards. Thank you. There's no more discussion please call the roll on the motion to file. Clowness. Meijer. Montemayor. Rinfleisch. Ryan. Zurich. Vanderweel. For Hassel. Boren. Bulk. Decker. Gisha. Hannah. Heidemann. I'm sorry. Thank you. Kittleson. 15 ayes. Motion carries. There is an item on the agenda not a number, notice of intent to discharge a group health insurance committee. President Hanna in a motion. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to discharge the group health insurance committee regarding the following documents 1741 which is resolution 1690809 and 1642 which is resolution 1540809. Would you like an explanation? That's fine. Is there motion and second? Motion second under discussion. Alderman Reinfleisch. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I guess I would like some discussion explanation on since we're into 2009 now we're establishing plans have these been established already within committee or if we recall them and we either approve or deny them what's the status of that it seems odd that we're pulling them back from a group health committee without a recommendation group health committee and what to do in this aspect. Alderman Gisha your response to that. Sure thank you your honor these documents were in finance where they're normally voted on for the insurance establishing insurance rates and at the same time they were in finance group health kind of fired itself back up after being relatively dormant for a relatively long period of time so we referred them for their review but as far as the vetting of the of the numbers and the presentation of of the rates and so forth that was done in finance we just decided to step back and let group health take a look at it and at that time so the presentation was made on the information if that was the main question. Alderman Hath. Yes I thank you Mr. Mayor and group health has met twice on these items and I just thought it was appropriate for to bring it back now for the council to vote. Thank you. Alderman Montemayol. Thank you your honor there's a little bit of history a couple of council meetings ago we were going to address these two these agenda items but they were sent both to group health and we've gotten no answers from group health. Thank you. There is a motion to discharge the the motion to discharge right? Motion to discharge group health. Please call oh I can just call a vote. Somebody wants to talk on a motion to discharge yet? Alderman Kettleson. Thank you your honor um I'm just what does that mean we're voting on both of these issues? No we're just it's it's a prerequisite to acting on 1741 and 42. Thank you. Thank you. Who's of order? Alderman Rihassel. Thank you your honor it's always that to me it's serious to pull something out of committee um is there a member of the committee that would like to speak to this obviously there must have been an obstacle or what was the exact I heard some explanations but I'm still not clear exactly why we're pulling it from that committee why they weren't why they haven't made a decision. Is there someone who can speak to that? I believe Alderman Montemayol did the Alderman Montemayol you did that. Thank you we went to group health and there was lots of discussion and lots of discussion but another piece of information is that half of the committee members are union representatives so it isn't even appropriate that they would be giving a recommendation for their own um amounts that they should be standing. Alderman Sartre. Thank you and I'm chairman of group health insurance committee and actually did meet twice to discuss the the rates pre-rates and discussion more was why were they so high as opposed to how we got there and it's kind of agreed that okay we understand that we do have an issue we're going from a seven million dollar bill for insurance to a nine million dollar bill but it's going to have to be paid so basically the feeling of the committee was let's get on with approving it because we're into oh nine already but we still want to have that's why we've brought the other resolution into to examine the cost factors within our insurance why they are going up so high and to perhaps find some solutions to that. Thank you. On the notice to Mr. President Barron. Thank you I have a question I have a question for Alderman Sartre. Hopefully he can answer or somebody else from the insurance committee the premium rates that we're setting for 2009 are the premiums going to cover our full possible exposure for employee health insurance or are we going to have to dip into some reserves that we have set aside and make the premium increases even more erroneous next year. Alderman Sartre, clarification. Thank you. Well what happened was in 2008 we actually we did use our reserves and it's when I was involved with the insurance we tried to maintain a 1.2 million reserve in case it was a bad year those reserves were extinguished. So for 2009 we don't want to be left bearing without having reserves so that's where the premiums are going up so high to reestablish this reserve in case we get experience a bad year. Thank you. Okay on just simply the motion to discharge we're not acting on the resolutions yet. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay now we go to 1741 resolution number 1690809 by Alderman Hanna established in the monthly premium equivalent rates for the dental insurance plan effective January 2009 covered. President Hanna any motion? Thank you Mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Motion is second under discussion. There is none please call a roll. Planus. Aye. Meyer. Aye. Montemayor. Aye. Rindflash. Aye. Ryan. Aye. Zurich. Aye. Vanderwheel. Aye. Verhassell. Aye. Boran. Aye. Bauch. Aye. Decker. Aye. Giesha. Aye. Hanna. Aye. Heidemann. Aye. And Kittleson. Aye. 15 ayes. Motion carries 1642 resolution number 150809 by Alderman Hanna established in the monthly premium equivalent rates for the medical benefit plan effective for January 2009 coverage. President Hanna any motion? Thank you Mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Motion and second under discussion. There is none please call a roll. Meyer. Aye. Montemayor. Aye. Rindflash. Aye. Ryan. Aye. Zurich. Aye. Vanderwheel. Aye. Verhassell. Aye. Boran. Aye. Bauch. Aye. Decker. Aye. Giesha. Aye. Hanna. Aye. Heidemann. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. And Kleyunas. Aye. 14 ayes one abstention. Motion carries. 1927 in ordinance by Alderman Montemayor Zurich, Meyer, Decker and Verhassell amended section 29-75 of the 1975 Sheboygan Municipal Code so as to eliminate section 3-7 under B Department of Public Works and recreate section 2-7 under B Department of Public Works and the Department of Public Works Table of Organization and create job descriptions for janitor vehicle and equipment manager building and grounds manager and traffic superintendent. Alderman Montemayor. Thank you Your Honor. I move that the ordinance be put upon us passage. We need that generally it's a change in the TO that generally would lie over it will lie over now the only way to act on it to ask for suspension. I ask for suspension. Is there a second to that or any objection to that? We need a second. There's an objection. Then the matter will lie over. Other matters up there? On bulk. Thank you Your Honor. I'd like to like to suggest that this document a lot of my colleagues here have have tried to get more information on this particular ordinance and the minutes from the Seller Agreements Committee of December 12th or 18th whatever that date was have not been made public yet. This is a surprise to a lot of people we don't know a lot about it so I'm wondering if a Committee of the Whole meeting might be appropriate between now and then for us to to to hold so I would move that this document be referred to the Committee of the Whole that the Committee of the Whole we would include it in our meeting which is next Monday night and I'd ask that Director Bittner and Chairperson Meyer be available that night and that the Seller Agreements Committee meetings minutes be published before that night so that in Alderman if you have questions please get them out there so that Director Bittner and Chairman Chairperson Meyer can be there to get us as much information as we can about this because this has a lot of people concerned. I'm sure there are great explanations we just don't know what those explanations are. Second motion and second to refer to Committee of the Whole under discussion just so it will move or hassle. Your Honor I'd also like to ask that this be sent to the Committee of Public Works seeing this is directly a Public Works related issue that it be sent to that Committee for further in-depth discussion at the Committee level. That needs to be included in your do you want to include that in your motion you're going to have multiple referrals. Thank you Your Honor I would ask all the person who has it if it would be okay if a potential outcome of that committee the whole meeting would be really referred to public works after we get our kick at it if this should go to them if we feel that way that yeah that I would be fine with that Your Honor I just think just for a matter of pure respect out of the standing five standing committees that something as important and specific as Public Works go to the Public Works Committee but I can live with Alderman Boak's suggestion. Thank you and I would suggest that we have that meeting all worded on the agenda to meet there's a finance committee meeting all word the agenda to meet at 6 30 or immediately following finance committee being so I think it's a finance agenda thank you thank you Alderman Meyer thank you Your Honor um this actually is in our committee at this point um we did not have a quorum at our last meeting which we would have been discussing this so it is actually in the committee this doesn't need to be sent to us in public works in public works yes and just just a reminder I know that some alderman are not able to make the committee meetings but if you need information by all means you're all welcome to attend the committee meetings and engage ask questions there sometimes it's best that you attend the meetings if you're able to further discussion on the rehearsal thank you Your Honor can I ask Madam Chair of the Public Works Committee then will it be on this Thursday's committee agenda Alderman Meyer Your Honor yes thank you it will be on the agenda for this week again thank you on the motion to refer to the committee of the whole 1927 all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries other matters attorney McLean 1928 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2009 and June 30 2010 that goes to law and licensing 1925 is a communication from all the person born along with an article from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel limiting property tax will be no that should be easy I believe feet that goes to finance committee the whole and how many other committees you wanted to go no just kidding just kidding I know I don't just finance and committee the whole continue 1930 is a communication from all the person born along with an article from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Midwest states may work together to buy road salt it goes to public works 1931 is an arrow by the deputy finance director treasurer submitting the municipal court monthly finance report is submitted to the state treasurer and the statement of municipal court revenues and expenditures as of November 30 2008 and the statement of fines and fees collected in November 2008 by the spoiled county court of courts and will be referred to finance and joint municipal court 1932 is an ordinance repealing substituted general ordinance number 10708 which granted an encroachment to richard a wilkins his heirs and assigns upon described portions of north 13th street and michigan avenue in the city for the purpose of maintaining a patio area that lies over need a motion to adjourn all in favor say aye on adjourn