 Good morning everybody My name is Nancy Lindborg I'm the president and CEO here at the US Institute of Peace and I'm delighted to welcome you here today a special welcome to our esteemed guest of honor Prime Minister Imran Khan and to the delegation who has traveled far to Be here with him a warm welcome to everybody who's joining us online And you can join the conversation at USIP on Twitter with hashtag Imran Khan USIP And I'm delighted everyone could be here for the conversation today This is the kind of conversation that is the hallmark of US Institute of Peace Which was founded 35 years ago by Congress as an independent nonpartisan national institution dedicated to reducing international violent conflict and We very strongly believe that peace is possible that piece is practical and it is absolutely essential for US and international Security so we pursue our mission by linking research with policy with training and with action Working on the ground with partners Our Pakistan program is one of our largest here at the Institute and we've been active in the country since 2011 we partner with the network of civil society organizations innovators Scholars and policy makers To support local programs conduct research and analysis and convene local peace builders We've supported programs in cities and villages throughout Pakistan. We focus on increasing Tolerance of diversity using arts media and culture to promote dialogue and peace education USIP partners in Pakistan have reached more than a hundred thirty thousand youth And has helped support their peace building activities I've been fortunate to have a chance to visit and to see the extraordinary impact that these young leaders are having We also work with other Institutions including the police to promote police community relations and enable the police to be more effective at nonviolent means of addressing conflict We use our trusted networks in the US government and in Pakistan to facilitate 1.5 and 2.0 Dialogues to offer opportunities for policy specialists and those close to decision-making on both sides To think of other solution sets and to can and offer innovative approaches to break through policy Obstacles so we have a long history also of hosting Pakistan top political officials last year. We were honored to host Pakistan's foreign minister Shama Mood Koreshi who's here with us today welcome And we're also delighted to have with us Pakistan's ambassador to the US Assad Khan Who's a good friend pleased to have you back with us Today, of course, we are honored to have with us Pakistan's prime minister Imran Khan, this is his first visit to Washington since becoming prime minister last August We have had the honor of hosting him in the past the last time you were here was in 2009 The Prime Minister comes to Washington at a particularly critical moment in US Pakistani relations and Yesterday, hopefully we'll hear more about it. He met with President Trump For the first time to discuss cooperation between US and Pakistan So today we thank Prime Minister Khan for the opportunity to hear his own Insights into developments in Pakistan and what we can expect from Pakistan on the international stage After the Prime Minister's opening remarks, I'll host a moderated discussion with him and then take questions from the audience We have people circulating with note cards. Please write down your question and pass them in To a US volunteer and we'll also be taking questions from online and with that Please join me in giving a warm welcome to Prime Minister Imran Khan The United States Institute of Peace I want to About Pakistan's policy and I start with How someone like me a Sportsman for 20 years international sportsman who ended up in politics I Am the first generation Pakistani my parents were born in colonial India. I Was the first generation who grew up in an independent Pakistan We grew up with a lot of pride My parents reminded me always how awful it was to live In a colonial in a in a country where you were not you didn't have your freedom. So I valued the freedom of Being in an independent country and We took great pride when Pakistan started growing Rapidly in the 60s. It's not used to my voice. I think it's too In the in the 60s Pakistan was the fastest growing country in the whole region Pakistan was a country which gave us hope We we grew up feeling that this is a country with a destiny and then things started going wrong from 70s onwards and And I was playing cricket for for two decades international sportsman I finished in the early 90s and my initial thought after playing sport was to Go into social work. I had already Started building a cancer hospital. My mother had died of cancer and I realized that there was no cancer hospital in Pakistan So I thought I would build one Specifically because poor people cannot afford cancer treatment. So I spent six seven years of my life after cricket building and then running the hospital But it was during that time I realized that This is a big country social work was not going to change it the only way would change our country is joining politics change only comes through When you had a government and bring about a change and The reason why I joined politics was because I realized our politics was going in a direction which was a leading Pakistan to nowhere problem with most excolonial countries is Was exactly what was what Pakistan was facing if you look at Africa You look at the independence movements in Africa and then the the leaders who came from the independence movement once they assumed government a similar pattern took place the moment they got power they used power for benefiting themselves corruption was the main reason why countries could not reach their potential and Pakistan was exactly that country which in 60s while was going taking off from mid 80s onwards It started going down because of corruption corruption of the ruling elite So my main when I formed my party in 1996 it was on an anti-corruption platform and I campaigned for 15 years In the political wilderness Talking about corruption and could not make people understand the relevance of the the relation between corruption and poverty People could not relate the truth somehow in in ex-colonial countries people thought Taking money from the government Was nothing wrong with it because it was an it was not your government. It was a foreign government which was ruling over you. So if you evaded taxes there was You know, you were you're not doing anything wrong and similarly corruption So I formed my party as I said in 1996 for 15 years I had only a few people with me and No one thought I had a chance, but then suddenly People began to understand what I was saying. So the party then began to take off about seven years ago and in 2013 we formed government in one of the four provinces and Because of our performance in that one performance in that one province in 2018 we won the elections So what have I what has been the main challenge since we've come to part ten months ago? Number one challenge was inheriting inheriting a country which was bankrupt We had the the biggest current account and fiscal deficits but worse What corruption does is it it's not just a question of bankrupting a country and and Money being laundered out of the country. What happens is the ruling elites they when they Make money when they make Money out of corruption they then have to take it out of the country because otherwise people would know Ask them questions. Where did the money come from? So you have suffered in two ways number one Money which should go to a human development ends up going into People's pockets, but secondly that that money leaves the country and in my opinion Which I spoke to president Trump yesterday the biggest problem that the world faces is About a trillion dollars leaving Developing and poor countries and either go going into offshore accounts or they end up in western countries And this is impoverishing This is causing more deaths than through terrorism than through drugs The amount of people dying of hunger and disease Lack of education not having clean drinking water is because of the ruling elites and developing world Taking that money out and parking it into As I said offshore accounts or western countries So we've we've we faced a similar situation we had the biggest current account deficit and fiscal deficit but The other aspect of corruption is that in order for the ruling elites to take money out They have to destroy the state institutions Because if the institutions are strong, they would not be able to take the money out for instance, if your anti-corruption body is strong if your justice system is as working is robust if your taxation department like equivalent to the Indian Revenue here or the IRS here if these institutions are strong you cannot take money out of the country but but That's the biggest damage these corrupt ruling elites do to Developing world they destroy these institutions. So, you know, you can recover the money But what you can't to build institutions take takes time So what we are the biggest challenge we have faced since we've been power is trying to build the state institutions and You know, we have we have succeeded we have turned around various institutions, but it is a slow process The relationship Which we've had with our neighbors of the other priority we have tried to Install in Pakistan amongst the people is that we must have good relationship with all our neighbors Because Pakistan at the moment most of all needs stability We need stability for economic progress. We need peace and so for peace we need to have Good relationship with our neighbors. So first was me trying to reach out to India India is you know a Country which we've had turbulent relationship with but unfortunately Because of one issue of Kashmir Whenever we have tried whenever Relationship has got started to move in the right direction with India some incident happens And and that's all related to Kashmir. We go back to square one And so we are I reached out to my counterpart in India the Indian Prime Minister Assured him that you know we you you come one step towards us We will go to steps towards you because the biggest problem India and Pakistan face is poverty and the best way we can reduce poverty is if we start trading with each other The next was Afghanistan. We again have had a difficult relationship with Afghanistan and So we have reached out I have invited president running to Pakistan and You know, I it's a sort of long story, but we are moving towards Fortunately, we're all moving towards the same direction. There's a convergence now in Pakistan in the US that there is no military solution in Afghanistan So we're all working towards the peace process Similarly with Iran, we've had sort of a Decent relationship with Iran without It's not really a warm relationship, but a decent relationship with them. So we reached out to all our neighbors And the next is the US US is a superpower. You have to have good relationship with the US whether you like it or not so So I was a bit worried When I was invited to meet President Trump You know, I have never I've been in limelight public life for 40 years and So when I've gone to meet people who are Famous or well-known or in power You normally get advice that you know how you what you should do what questions you should ask when you meet them But never in my life Have I had so many suggestions when I before I was going to meet President Trump in undated and I have to say that it was one of the Most pleasant surprise not just for me for my delegation The way the hospitality the way he Straightforward charming where he treated us. We were all blown over. We loved the meeting with the The president yesterday, but above all we we decided on how We will now have a close relationship between Pakistan and the US How we will now ensure that there is no communication gap The the period from 2003 or four to 2015 was the worst in the relationship with Pakistan and the US Pakistanis felt that they were fighting the US war It was a no Pakistani was involved in 9-11 Taliban were in Afghanistan Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan, but Pakistan ended up involved in that war Then we lost 70,000 people We lost over a hundred billion dollars lost to our economy and yet there was mistrust Pakistan felt it was doing its best It could have stayed out of the war and yet Pakistan participated in the war and Pakistan took a battering There was a point when people like us thought are we going to survive because there were suicide bombs going on every day There were no sports team used to visit Pakistan forget about investors and So we passed through a terrible period, but at the same time the US thought we weren't doing enough We were playing a double game So that was in my opinion the worst It was the worst phase between the you relationship between us and Pakistan I was one of those and I came here I think in 2009 and I tried to explain to people here that there was no military solution in Afghanistan. I Met then Democrats hadn't come into power the elections hadn't happened just before President Obama won the elections. I Tried to explain to I had a meeting organized this doctoric Ram Harry organize a meeting with Joe Biden John Kerry Harry Reid Towering figures of the Democratic Party And I sat there and tried to explain to them the history of Afghanistan of Pakistan's tribal area and tried to explain to them that this The there will be no military solution But I realized they had no idea people in the US had no idea about about history of Afghanistan and the sort of conflict they had got involved in and Fortunately this time Everyone knows people understand so Why do I think that we will now have The very best of relationship with the US because we are all on the same page Previously previously Pakistan Army was was was supposedly fighting for the US this this war on terror But the US did did not think we were doing enough and and in Pakistan we thought We had gone out of our way this time the Pakistan State our security forces the United States all of us on the same page That the that peace in Afghanistan will now can only take place through a political settlement through dialogue So we are all now working On on getting the Taliban to talk to the Afghan government They've already they're already talking to the US and we hope that this will eventually lead to a settlement not easy It's not going to be easy because there's no centralized Taliban command It's a devolved movement, but we feel that if we all work together We feel this is the best chance of there to be peace in Afghanistan Apart from that domestically just one final word before I take your questions I have I've struggled these 23 years to To get into power Most of these as I said in wilderness political wilderness I was not fighting political parties. I Felt I was fighting a mafia and The Supreme Court of Pakistan actually when there was this famous court case where the Prime Minister was dismissed Actually called the ruling party a Sicilian mafia And I say a mafia because this is not normal politics because they the two ruling families Had been in power off and on for 30 years and When you're in power for 30 years there their penetration was right down in the bureaucracy In the judiciary in the election commission They had enormous amounts of money and so we won because we mobilized the people We mobilized the youth of Pakistan We were very fortunate that Pakistan has a 60% of Pakistanis are below the age of 30 They became our big support the young people rallied around us and we did it was a the biggest public movement in Pakistan in the last 50 years and and so we won despite having Coming up against big money Despite the penetration in media The most vilification campaign personal attacks And despite that we won because of social media This is the new it had there been no social media probably we would not have been able to beat the established parties and Since we have been in power We are still up against the mafia We have been the problem has been to fix the economy, but at the same time we have had the entire opposition Trying to destabilize the country So the twice they have tried to Create this uncertainty that there's been a run on the rupee We almost had a run on the rupee because of them predicting that the all fake news that IMF had told us that the rupee would go to a Certain number all wrong, but putting pressure on the economy all the time Finally, I can say right now after 10 months We have finally stabilized the economy and we feel now that we are now after stabilizing the economy we feel that we can now move ahead and Start our reforms our reforms are very straightforward. We believe that real development is human development so we are going to all our money all the each We have decided that all the money which we retrieve from the the criminal mafia We've started a massive accountability campaign. We will then direct it towards human development We've started one of the biggest poverty alleviation program in Pakistan's history despite having financial constraints But we believe that a country cannot rise if there's a small lot of rich people and a mass of poor ones This is what's happened in Pakistan the gap between the rich and the poor has gone has grown with each year and the whole system is Just get us for a tiny elite The education system get us for just a tiny elite to give you an example we have We have a total of students coming from what are the elite schools English medium schools? 800,000 The the children who go to government schools They are about 33 million and Then children who go to Dini madrasas Is 2.5 million? So we have three tiered system So the first thing our government is trying to do is to synthesize the syllabus bring in Science subjects other subjects into Dini madrasas, which are the religious Schools so bring them into the mainstream Similarly in the Urdu medium schools teach them English so that we equip them for higher education So we're trying to bring the education system, which is the biggest problem up country faces and the most difficult problem So that's number one. Secondly is Is the the Pakistan taxation system? We have the lowest tax GDP ratio in the world we have out of a Population of two hundred and ten million people. We have only tax pay Barely people 1.5 million people pay taxes So there's no way you can sustain a country if you do not Expand the tax base. So we now are in the process very difficult process Convincing everyone to come into the tax net. There are a lot of strikes going on right now But we feel that we will be able to overcome them Because it's imperative now that Pakistan Pakistani people pay taxes The the challenge of course has been that the this mafia I call this mafia in ten years Just so that you understand What they have done to our country Because later on people you might ask me why is this political victimization what I call accountability people say political Victimization, but I'll just tell you what they've done to our country in ten years the total debt of Pakistan in 2008 Before these two parties came in when general Musharraf left the total debt of Pakistan in 60 years was 6 trillion rupees In the last ten years They've taken it to from 6 trillion to 30 trillion rupees So where has this money gone? I've set up a commission a debt commission Which is now going to find out where this money disappeared. So which is why we are going to we we are going through this Problem of finding out what happened to our country? How come we got so indebted? So the the problem with having such a huge debt is that in the last year The total tax revenue which we collected half of it went to servicing debts So you can't have 210 million people just surviving on this already a very low tax base and then Half of it going into debt servicing so for that we are expanding our tax base But what we are doing now in Pakistan? It's the first time in 1960s any government is going to take this step we're now moving towards a encouraging industrialization in 1960s Pakistan Pakistan's industrial production was equal to four Asian Tigers industrial production Indonesia Malaysia Philippines Thailand they combined industrial production was equal to Pakistan's in 1960s after that Unfortunately, we de-industrialized our exports actually went down because our policies just did not Encourage industrialization. So we now have embarked on a program program of industry industrializing our country We are giving incentives to industry So we have the main programs in Pakistan are number one poverty alleviation We have allocated the biggest amount to alleviate poverty any money retrieved from these big crooks will go straight into the poverty alleviation program Secondly industrialization. We are now encouraging our industry Specifically export industry we have the trade agreements one with China where we hope that we will be able to Free trade agreement with Preferential trade agreement with China where we hope to export our stuff to China China has imports of two trillion dollars. So Industrialization and third is agriculture Pakistan is basically an agricultural country and we are hoping to get technology transfer from Europe from China Hopefully we've spoke to Companies in the United States so that we can improve our yields Pakistan has the lowest yields one of the One of the most productive lands, but the lowest yields. So what we hope is that this three-pronged attack we will be able to raise Pakistan's economy Provide employment to our people Improve productivity. So this is basically where we're headed Thank you. Thank you Prime Minister. Thank you for a very rich View of the challenges you're facing in the approach that you're taking I wanted to start you you gave us a taste of your meetings yesterday with President Trump and in the past you've spoken also about your Commitment to take a different approach to US Pakistan relations than previous Pakistan leaders and I'm curious if you wanted to say a bit more about What is the difference with your approach and how is that resonating during this visit? in Washington, and how do you see the the future between us and Pakistan? You see Nancy, I always felt That the relationship between Pakistan and the United States Was never was never Multi-pronged it was basically a transactional relationship. So for instance in 80s Pakistan was fighting the the jihad against the Soviets and so the US was helping Pakistan was providing aid and and Pakistan was you know the the various groups created in Pakistan were then conducting Attacks inside Afghanistan against the Soviets The moment that jihad then the Afghan jihad ended the US packed up and left and And not only did the leave Pakistan was slapped with Pressure sanctions so Pakistan then was left with four million of armed refugees a Number of militant groups which had been created to fight the Soviets all dressed up and nowhere to go we had Heroin Drugs that were used to at some point to pay for the fighting in Afghanistan. So Pakistan Then first time we had these sectarian attacks and sectarian militant groups, which were first time we heard of sectarian attacks inside Pakistan then comes 9-11 and Pakistan again joins the US. I was then I Only had one seat in Parliament at the time and I remember when General Musharraf was consulting all of us that the US wants us to join Them in the war. I opposed it. I thought Pakistan should stay neutral and I'll tell you why I thought Pakistan should sit stay neutral We had created these jihadi groups in the 80s We had indoctrinated them in the idea of jihad That foreign occupation in Afghanistan. It was a religious duty to fight them So all these groups including al-qaeda had arrived in Pakistan Now comes 9-11 Then the US invades Afghanistan and Now we are trying to tell these same groups Who had closed links with the Pakistan army? Because they were created by the Pakistan army now. We are telling them that no it's because the good guys are there It's no longer jihad now obviously lot of them turned against the Pakistan army because Pakistan army was then trying to Neutralize them so what we went through and I just briefly mentioned earlier It was the worst time in our history these groups turned against the Pakistan army and the state of Pakistan and Not only that there were linkages between clearly there were linkages between these groups and the Pakistani security forces Because they they had created them So we had insider attacks We had I mean the the GHQ was attacked generals were killed ISI headquarters were attacked The army at one point the army could not go into the cities In in in military clothes or with military cars It was that bad at one point and then of course the second thing was the tribal areas We should never have sent army into the tribal areas because the tribal area per capita was the most Weaponized area in the world For people who don't know tribal area is the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan It was it was always an autonomous area the British never occupied it during their rule since 1890 So it was an autonomous area If it ran by its own rules So in nine in in 2004 under pressure from the United States Pakistan army went into the tribal areas to flush out Al Qaeda Now what happened was that when after Torah Bora in Afghanistan A few of the Al Qaeda moved into our tribal areas, which were semi-autonomous. So when they sent the army in You know armies are not meant to go into civilian areas Whenever you send your army into civilian areas, you can ensure that they will be human rights abusers They will be collateral damage. There will be people the innocent people killed because there's no army there They're just guerrillas operating from village from villages. So You know the collateral damage Created what became the Pakistani Taliban? There was no Pakistani Taliban before so we then had a You know the people of tribal area suffered one point There were these militants the other side was the Pakistan army half of the tribal area was then internally displaced The damage we still haven't the amount of damage done in the tribal area. We still haven't got the resources to To compensate them. So so basically the country went through hell in my opinion. We should have We should have stayed neutral That way the we would have had control over these militant groups and we could have in our own time neutralize them but because we became a part of the US war they turned against Pakistan and so now what I feel There was a watershed in Pakistan in Pakistani politics in 2014 The TTP the Pakistani Taliban this slaughtered 150 school children in what was called the APS the army public school There was a reaction within Pakistan all the political parties then signed a paper called the national action plan and We all decided after that that we will not allow any militant groups to operate and side Pakistan Until we came into power the the governments did not have the political will because there when you talk about the militant groups They still have about 30 to 40,000 armed People who have been trained and in some sort of a theater who fought either in Afghanistan maybe in Kashmir So we were the first government who has now started disarming all the militant groups This is the first time it is happening. We have we have taken over their Their their institutes their seminaries We are now we've got administrators there So it is the first time in Pakistan that we have decided there will be no armed militias inside our country Which which relates to the next question? I want to ask you and it's been in the news a lot It's clearly a significant element in US Pakistan relationships and that's what you refer to as well the the ongoing Afghan peace process and the possibilities That we might actually have some breakthroughs is and building on what you just said Our is is the Pakistan government? Able and willing to to make the commitments to really help move these Dialogues forward especially in the event that the Taliban in the Afghan government aren't able to get a meeting organized Is just for people's benefit The the fair amongst the Pakistan military establishment was always that there would be a two-front situation So there would be you know the eastern front, which is India and then if Afghanistan was also In the Indian sephir of influence Then Pakistan would be sandwiched between these two and so this was always the worry about the Pakistan military of Establishment and which is why they wanted what was called the strategic depth? but This has changed today There is no concept in Pakistan of strategic depth because we feel That by interfering in Afghanistan in order to secure the strategic depth We have actually done a lot of damage to our own country and for no rhyme or reason We have become partisan in Afghanistan's internal affairs now and I speak for Pakistan army because you know normally there was that you know, there's a Pakistan army is this independent entity and you know the governments have no control over it I can sit here and tell you that I speak as I speak the Pakistan army is Exactly behind the government's program Whatever our policies from day one we arrived peace with India They were behind when I decided to release the Indian pilot who had been shot down in Pakistan The army was right behind me. So I speak to we today speak as you know That there's no difference between the policies of the Pakistan security forces or the Pakistan's democratic government And we believe that we should not ever Interfer in the internal affairs of Afghanistan Let the Afghans decide what they want what sort of government they want and we should facilitate the peace process So this is the big difference now We are all on the same page and fortunately now that the United States is on the same page too because you know after You know the Einstein's definition of madness trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result 17 19 years of Conflict and if they had gone thank God for President Trump, I mean it this could have gone on for another 19 years without a result But it sounds like you're willing to use your leverage with the Taliban to facilitate the peace process You see a big a big welcome Change Taliban delegation wanted to meet me a few months back and they want When I became the prime minister And it's because I always maintained that there was no military solution Well, everyone else in Pakistan's political spectrum kept sort of agreeing that there was some military solution So because of that, you know, I had a certain amount of credibility amongst them They wanted to meet me but the Afghan government at that point did not want me to meet them so I so I I Did not meet them but now when I go back after meeting President Trump and also I've spoken to President Gunny Now I will meet the Taliban and I will try my best to get them to talk to the Afghan government and so that Then the election in Afghanistan must be an inclusive election where the Taliban are also participate in it I want to ask something that's very important to people here and that is the view that in in Pakistan Censorship and harassment of the press of activists and dissenting voices of women Is on the rise and you just spoke very eloquently about a new Pakistan talked about the Inequalities that have plagued the economy and I'm curious what what are your Thoughts and commitments about also protecting the pluralism and the freedom of speech and of the media That's so important to a democratic Pakistan but just just let me say one thing My government and time will prove this will be The most inclusive government in Pakistan ever we will try we have already now Ensured full protection for our minorities We have I won't go into detail, but there's one element where we still have a problem But what we have done? No government has done before and I'll give you an example that there was this case of Asya Bibi. She was this Christian woman who was jailed and no No judge would try them because of blasphemy and because of the strength of one particular group Which which had the previous government was held hostage by the group they came in and they literally blocked the roads And people were scared of that group So when the judgment was given to free her by the Supreme Court The same group then threatened they were they came out on the streets. They were writing for two days and You know the stage was held hostage for two days But this is the first government that on the next opportune moment actually took took them out We put them in jails. We just completely and Asya Bibi was then safely She came out and then she wanted to leave the country and we helped her So all I'm saying is that this government will you will see that it will treat its minorities as equal citizens I just There's just one thing. I don't want to go into detail But there's one aspect I can't talk about it, but we have still a problem I'm I'm not saying we've completely Controlled the situation, but you will see that this is not out of worry about what the out of the The western world or any other people say about us. It's because out of our conviction That our minorities according to our religion according to our constitution are equal citizens now the media You know, I have my life I went to University in England and I spent about 18 summers of my life in England and I've seen the British media very open very Very free media The Pakistan media in my opinion is even freer than the British media There is there is the the media in Pakistan I mean is not just free, but sometimes out of control. I I can tell you that in Britain in Britain No media would have come publish things like or said on television things like the Pakistan media has done I can tell you since I've been in power. I mean imagined I don't even think in America. This would be allowed even though the media has this love-hate relationship with President Trump More hate than love sometimes, but imagine that for again a Prime Minister of a country and this man sits on television and says that I can tell you that he's getting divorced tomorrow So if there was some truth in it, you know, you would okay if he had some knowledge But there's only me and my wife living together. Where did he get this information from? But this sort of thing I mean I in the olden days I can tell you that this guy would have been beaten up Nawaz Sharif's time the the previous Prime Minister he had journalist beaten up Asa Zardari people were petrified of him. He would just people would disappear in my time I tried I went to the legal channels. I I reported it to the media You know, I went into the court all I'm saying is that what the media in Pakistan is You will not find a media like that and I remember the previous ambassador to Pakistan him saying that the media was out of control So what we need is to control the media and not through the government but through media watchdog At the moment, I mean there's two or three things the media did One is that they started reporting wrongly that the IMI IMF had said that the rupee would fall You know to to a number they quoted they almost there was a run on the rupee I mean who would do that first you're fighting in a the biggest economic crisis in your history Second you have media coming up with this false news about Causing a run on the rupee or the finance minister's chain and so on so what I'm I feel very strongly that we will strengthen The the media watchdog. It is not censorship. We will strengthen the media watchdog But there are 70 channels or 80 channels in Pakistan Only three channels reported that there was they were having some problems. So we have a whole Afternoons worth of questions for you But before I go I just need to ask you one last question It's very important for us IP's mandate and that is the number of international NGOs that are raising concern about the increased difficulty of working in Pakistan and You know fully understanding that the government has a role in registering these groups and in regulating the space Many of them are complaining of a very arbitrary process that ultimately is hampering very genuine efforts to work in partnership with Pakistani organizations and the government and examples of forced expulsions I is your government committed to addressing this issue It's been going on since before you took office, and I think there are hopes that you might be able to do something to make it a more transparent and fair process Absolutely, the foreign minister Has been dealing with this issue and we have tried to work out to have these Guidelines for media for NGOs. I mean I run the biggest or two biggest NGOs in Pakistan Which is the the cancer hospital and the university, but We did have problems and I can just frankly tell you the reason why these these Districtions came there was an issue of Shakila Freeti who was working for a for a NGO the doctor the doctor and the NGO was what Save the children so so after that the The result was that the Extremists militants started targeting NGOs Specifically we had one of our biggest problem was that the polio workers were being targeted So many of the polio workers were shot after that So so after that there we are trying to streamline it, you know make sure that this doesn't happen again because that affected the Activities or other NGOs in fact one of the NGOs gave a statement condemning that NGOs should not be allowed for Espanayaj or that sort of thing stuff, but we are already looking at it Where there were three German NGOs which had left Pakistan, but after being cleared They've come back and and and we're looking at a case-to-case basis. I Know there'd be great appreciation for that. So number of questions None of them small Here's from Twitter any progress on restarting the US security assistance Some of these we can make rather short. No, no, I never asked for any assistance Okay Also asked for understanding not assistance also from Twitter What's an ideal Kashmiri solution from the Pakistan perspective and one that you believe the Pakistan people will accept I think it should not be the Pakistani people anymore. It should be what the people of Kashmir want And and that really is the only solution. What do the people of Kashmir want? and and Presumably a process that Surfaces that and enables it to take hold. Do you know There I'm told because we had Three foreign ministers who were in other parties who joined us one of them, of course, it's Shah Mammut Qureshi And two of them told me that actually the they came pretty close In the time of general Musharraf and when mr. Vajpayee was the Prime Minister of India Apparently they came pretty close. There was some sort of convergence on on a phased movement on Kashmir on sort of various steps To be taken and over a period of time some sort of a referendum anyway But I don't want to say anything right now because it's a delicate issue But there is a solution and the solution has to be with the will of the people of Kashmir So you you covered this but I see about four questions going back to this issue of media censorship At and here's one particularly that talks about TV Channels are taken off journalists are facing threats the party's official Twitter Routinely cautions journalists of committing treasons So in a country where many journalists have been killed. Do you think such rhetoric will enable and incite? Violence and directly affect the freedom of the of the press Do you know Nancy? I am probably one of the biggest beneficiaries of The media when we had free media I gained the most because I was on until then Until 2001 there was only one Television and that was the national television PTV, which was totally a government controlled television So with the independent channels coming in I became the biggest beneficiary Because we didn't have any money. I mean my party was pretty small for a long time So I was able to go on television and give my point of view and that's how my party gained because I was I had a way of conveying My manifesto my how I would deal with various issues So there is no question in Pakistan of ever clamping down on the media. I can just tell you that there is no question What is what happens is sometimes and I will you know now that you keep asking You were stuck on media. So I'll just go. I will just tell you a bit of truth about the media You know, there is as Lee Kwon you once famously remarked What he what was sometime called freedom of speech? by the media or freedom of expression is Sometimes the freedom of the owners of the media channels to conduct whatever they want to do So in Pakistan what we've had We had the situation where here. We were fighting I Don't know how many of you know of the Panama Papers the Panama revolutions So this Panama revolutions came about like the WikiLeaks and our prime ministers We discovered that he had these luxury apartments in London most Expensive Mayfair. He had these four luxury apartments So like a opposition like and anywhere in the democracy we asked him Where did you get the money to buy these flats and then started this whole movement to Get him to answer these these questions now There was a court case in the end and in the court. He was convicted But do you know there were there was a media channel one of the most powerful media channels They did everything to protect him Now this is not what a media is supposed to do the media did everything They covered up for him not just protecting him. I who was asking my democratic right a question to Asking someone where did you get the money? I was attacked Personal attacks. I mean the the sort of attacks I face no political leader I tell it no political leader would have gone through the sort of personal attacks They went because you know, they couldn't attack me on my On integrity so they went on these personal attacks So this is not normal for media to do this media is not supposed to do this Media is supposed to be a watchdog to bring out You know play the role of an opposition, but they're not about personal attacks and trying to blackmail you We just had another another case right now. There's a judge Who convicted the previous prime minister? Now this judge The opposition brought out a video Blackmailing him about him with some compromising video with some woman They brought this up. This happens in Italian mafias. It doesn't happen in democracies. So I mean, you know sometimes You know, you I firmly believe that we eventually will have to move Where the media owners will have to disclose the source of income, you know, just like anyone else They'll have to say how much tax to the pair. What is the source of income? Even if you ask them How much tax you paid some of these media said this is a freedom. It's against freedom of expression So looking at it from that perspective versus a censorship regime, but more of a transparency Effort is the focus and Nancy accountable media media should also be accountable You know, you can't have a media sort of protecting criminals in a society Okay, we're gonna move it the conversation here. There are a number of questions about Afghanistan I think and you've covered that but here's one Specifically asking, how do you view the peace talk the peace talks about Afghanistan hosted by both Russia and Uzbekistan? You know, we should really Get all the neighbors of Afghanistan involved with the peace talks Because this is it it should be the interest Pakistan the United States and Afghanistan These three countries today are the most interested in having peace in Afghanistan but not all neighbors are interested in peace in Afghanistan and Because you know for various reasons people have their own other countries have their own agendas So I firmly believe That the US should try and co-opt as many countries as possible Because there will be people who will be trying to You know Put a spanner in the works and so if the neighbors are all involved, there's a much better chance of the talks going smoothly and Speaking of neighbors, there's a question saying what and you mentioned this in your opening remarks What what role can Pakistan play in easing the rising tensions with Iran and a number of other countries? Including the United States without damaging some of your other relationships. How are you thinking about that? You see Pakistan is, you know We're really indebted to Saudi Arabia. We indebted to UAE Because the way they came forward You know when we were confronted with this when we took over government We only had two weeks of foreign exchange reserves So we were staring at a default and these countries came forward to help us and so we are really indebted to them But my worry about Iran is I think I'm not sure whether all the countries realize the The gravity of the situation if there's a conflict with Iran people don't understand You know This is not going to be the same as Iraq this could be much much much worse It will have great consequences for Pakistan adverse consequences for our for our country It could unleash terrorism Which would which people would forget al-Qaeda and those types because the Iranian the you know the the Shia Element in Islam is very cohesive. They have a much greater sense of martyrdom Then the Sunni Muslims You know it the the battle might be quite short if you know if if if it goes ahead and you know bombing Airfields and so on but the consequences after that my worry is that Not many people fully understand it and I would strongly urge that they should not be this this conflict should not There should not be another military Situation Pakistan has already suffered. I said as what we went through these last 15 years the last thing we want is another conflict on our borders and You know we would do anything. I mean if any role Pakistan can play in this We have already Suggested this to Iran Until recently Iran was willing but then when somehow I felt that the Iran is getting very desperate And I do not think they should be pushed into a situation where Where this leads to a conflict? another question via Twitter What are some of the concrete steps your government is taking to ensure that the military operates under civilian leadership Something you alluded to in your earlier comments. You see in Pakistan we had three martial laws and The last one was general Musharraf's. I think general Musharraf's martial law was a watershed in Pakistan in the sense that there was a Opinion across the board that when you have bad democracy The answer is not to have a military government Because the military military government comes in. It's like curing cancer with disparing For a while you feel good because they are organized the it's an organized institution, but eventually You know you you you end up in even a worse situation because then democracy democracy starts all over again and What we need in Pakistan now is an extended run of democracy and I do I really do believe that the the Democratic evolution of the country has reached a point where now we will go towards further democracy All right, I mean us winning the election is is you know who would have thought we would have won an election against these How many times in a two-party system has a third party broken through it's a it's unheard of I mean nowhere in the world does a third party break through we broke through because of social media we actually Despite the official media sort of not giving us that sort of coverage All the opinion polls were that we would not make it, but it was the social media and the young people Who who came out and and made us defeat the two established parties and I think the process will keep going on I think that in Pakistan people have Tasted freedom they understand You know the power of the vote in fact Social media has actually democratized the whole world Everyone now has you know, they can they have Twitter they can everyone can participate. That's how we're getting questions Well, I have two related questions on That I think build on the vision that you just articulated and the first is what will the government do to address? closing space for civil society and how does that fit into your vision and and closing space for civil society and and activists I Don't understand how is how is the government? Well, I think it's closing space for souls. I think there's there's another question about Gulal Eishmael and other activists You're talking on PTM PTM It's called civil sir there. I think they're saying it's a broader civil society question, but it's actually it's related to PTM Look, you know all these years. I kept saying you know when Pakistan I Stood up at the National Assembly in our parliament in 2004 I objected to the Pakistan army going being set into a tribal areas No one understood the tribal areas the only reason I understood the tribal areas is because some 30 years back I wrote a book on the tribal areas. I did a travel book. I went all over and I sort of I and so I understood the tribal areas that as I said that it is one of the most weaponized per capita area in the world the it's a most devolved democracy at every villages and is an independent entity and so they have they have never Allowed outside interference to come into the tribal areas So when Pakistan army was being sent there in 2004 I kept I stood in the parliament tried to explain to them that the greatest number of losses when the British were Ruling India they suffered the greatest Number of losses in Uzbekistan, which is tribal area So we should never have sent army there whenever you sent an army into civilian areas. They are massive collateral damage and massive casualties and and destruction So all the time when I was speaking out against this I was being called Taliban Khan. I Was being called pro-terrorist General Musharraf. I remember in a meeting said that I am a terrorist without a beard and And so once this whole thing was over This this young Pashtun movement started and This Pashtun movement was correct. What they were saying the area was devastated The people of the tribal areas. I mean half of them were internally displaced The shops were gone. They're most of them relied on livestock livestock disappeared The whole area was as it is tribal areas Before 2001 75% of the people were under the poverty line. So after this military action, they even went further down. So We had this young movement and and movement stemming out of anger and they of course they blame the Pakistan army for for for for all the devastation there and We've just had elections in the tribal area now We've just had first time in Pakistan's history The tribal area has been assimilated with Bakhtun Hwa province and first time we've had election And I'm very pleased to say that PTI won the election But we have now injected the greatest amount of money in the tribal areas to develop it Never has so much money been been Allocated for development there, but you know the the reason why there were problems was that the PTM leadership started attacking the army and they kept Attacking the army and the last thing happened was that they actually Civilians charge an army post there were few people killed and that's why there were restrictions But now it's settling down because we've had a peaceful elections in the tribal areas So I think we will now move on Yeah, I think the question was probably triggered a bit by the New York Times article about the harassments and arrests of this Gulale Ismail family and Friends I wish that they would the New York Times would also take the other point of view Now I'm sounding like President Trump So we have time for just a couple more questions The US has been asking Pakistan to do more in the context of terrorism Relates a little bit to what you were saying They particularly were asking Pakistan to do more in the context of of gem and After the arrest of Hafiz Said is this it Will he be stay in custody this time or will be he allowed to go off again? Now you ask First we want an independent justice system, and you want me to predict what the justice system would do look Let me just say I repeat one thing again It is in the interest of Pakistan that we do not allow any Armed militias in our country. We have suffered The country has suffered sectarian attacks. We have had the worst situation. It has affected our investment Pakistan has not it has destabilized us This whole thing while Obama this what happened In February last year It was clearly an indigenous thing It was a Kashmiri boy radicalized by the brutality of the security forces. He blew himself up but because This group claimed responsibility Which was all which was in India as well jai shah Muhammad was operating in India But Pakistan suddenly came in the limelight. So even before this had happened We had already decided that we would disarm all militant groups in Pakistan and it is in Pakistan's interest I repeat it's in our interest because the country has had enough of militant groups, you know, we had Ethnic groups militant groups we had In Balochistan, we still have militant groups operating then we had these various religious groups So there is a decision now and by the way it is across the party Every political party has signed the national action plan Pakistan is now determined and you know normally it was said that the security forces patronized the groups the security forces We would not be disarming them if the security forces were not standing behind us You cannot disarm because the police is incapable of disarming these groups. They are trained. I mean they have these people have experience of Of fighting in Afghanistan some in Kashmir the police cannot go after them So it's the army that is helping us disarm all military groups in our country Mr. Prime Minister you have been very generous with your time We have so many more questions that we won't be able to get to thank you everybody for your questions But before we close I want to ask one last question, which is this is your first Visit here as Prime Minister We have a very distinguished audience here of policy makers people in and out of government People who care deeply about the US-Pakistan relationship. What final message would you like to leave? As a closing thought for everyone I would like to my message From my trip First trip as as the Prime Minister to the US. I Would like to have a relationship Mutual between the two countries of mutual trust I Would like to have a relationship as Equals of Friendship Not as it has been before that where Pakistan has sort of been You know, it's like Pakistan wanting aid from the US and then as for aid Pakistan Is expected to do certain things The reason why I'm happy leaving the US this time Because we have a relationship not based on a mutual interest which is peace in Afghanistan and You know if someone asked that up will you get this funds? I hate the idea that we would be asking for funds not you as from anyone Because this is aid has been one of the biggest curses for my country What it has done is What it has done is it has created the dependency syndrome We have become you know I When I went on my first trip to Saudi Arabia. I Came back. What have you got from there? As if I'd gone there to beg for money and I think it's humiliating for a country Country's rise because of self-respect and self-esteem No country's rise by begging and borrowing for money. So my relationship with the US would be I would like a relationship with a Dignified relationship with the US where Never again Should we ever have this these that humiliating phase? I can tell you as a Pakistani Never did I feel more humiliated when Osama bin Laden was taken out in Pakistan by the US Troops never did I feel more humiliated Because here was a country which was supposed to be an ally and our ally did not trust us so as a Pakistani it was for every Pakistani it was humiliating we'd never want to be in that same position again We want to have a relationship or friendship and it doesn't matter You know friend can be rich and the other can not be so rich But so what you you know, it's it's about a dignified relationship, and that's what I hope Like to present you with a small token of our appreciation for your visit here Invite you to come back and wish you all the best. Please join me in thanking the Prime Minister