 Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you're hailing from. This is red hat enterprise Linux presents episode 27 Rel by the fireside. I am Eric the IT guy Hendricks your host for this episode. Thank you all so much for joining us I'm we're glad you could be here We've got a fun show for you today We're going to bring on different members of the rel business unit and engineering teams. We're going to ask some questions we're going to We're going to just have a kind of a laid-back day. So today is all about you Those of you watching live those of you joining us on YouTube and twitch Thank you for taking time out of your day to join us live With that, let me bring on the one and only Brian Smith my co-host today. How you doing today, Brian? Good. How you doing Eric? Oh, I'm good I just came back off of almost a week of PTO. So I'm excited to Just kind of be lazy. I guess the last Two weeks of the year Sounds good. Yeah, I'm excited for the show today. We got a good group of people to talk to you today It's gonna be fun. The real trick is can we stay out of trouble? That's gonna be the real question We have to answer today And speaking of trouble I want to introduce Carl Abbott Welcome to Reel Presents Carl. Thank you. Thank you for having me on Yeah, so why don't you just introduce yourself your title just real quick 30 seconds and So my name is Carl Abbott I'm a senior product manager working on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux product management team I cover the areas of the kernel and roll performance So anytime your system runs slow send your send your hate mail to Carl at redhat.com That actually goes to another Carl who's got the alias before I did so yes, please do that All right, so don't do that submit a submit a bug upstream, but yeah Carl does a lot of work on our performance and and Got some really cool stuff that's come out over the last year So well, I mean every every release but specifically like some of the cockpit integration some of the web UI stuff a lot of cool things Going on into the performance space but before before I get us off on too bad of attention with within about three minutes of the show starting I Want to bring on Brontz Brontz is part of our team as well. You want to introduce yourself? Yeah, Brontz for claim. I'm also on the same team as as Carl And instead of focusing on performance I get to focus on that this this small scope of the public cloud So really anything rel in the public cloud and I got that narrow focus on so yeah narrow is in like every cloud provider known to man, so Narrow focus sure well, we'll go with that All right, and next up. I wanted to do Steve. Welcome to Rell presents and welcome to red hat Well, thank you. Good good afternoon or good evening or as Eric said earlier happy wednesday wherever you are in the world So my name is Steve Steve onless, which is I'm Steve without the wide area network That's Kind of like been played through by many journalists in the past So I'm also like Carl in the red hat enterprise Linux business unit And I am working on infrastructure partners Components like that. So yeah back to you Perfect, and we do have one more. I think he's still with us Mr. Terry welcome to Rell presents Hello, thanks for having me You want to tell us what you do here at red hat Yeah, I am I'm along with many of the others on this team. I'm on the rel product management team I'm focused on the install and migrations experiences of rel. So that includes the stall installer Our exciting new image builder service and our convert to rel and leap upgrade tooling So and and happy to to be the tail end of the caboose here and and lower the bar for expectations and Wow, what a great group of people you've got together here. This is fun Well, truth truth be told. I really just put out a Call to action to our to our bu Chat channel and just said hey We Brian and I have this crazy idea. We want to do this thing It's probably nuts, but come on let's just jump on Let's let's just sit around and chat and let's let's wrap up the end of the year So if anything goes wrong, I'm going to blame Brian I just remember just remember in limbo dancing the lower the bar the more the difficulty There you go Well, Brian, I want to leave it up to you as as folks are still trickling in Where do we want to start do we want to talk about people and and how they relate to rel or do we want to talk about The industry at large or kind of the other category that we've got is What do we do when we're not? rel In I guess relling is is that is that the term for doing the relts? Yeah, I said we start with yeah, I said we start with what are your hobby projects outside of red hat Just really briefly to so our audience can get to know you a little bit. What do you guys do for fun when you're not? Not at work And terry's terry smiling. Why don't you go first? You said you're going to set that bar nice and low. So let's let's start there Oh, wow, what what all are we allowed to talk about? Need I remind you we are live so Um, I'm sure there's people that would love to grab a clip of you saying that you I don't know do tap dancing or something Um, no nothing that wild and crazy I like to uh to play guitar as much as possible so especially after a long hard day of thinking about difficult problems and Trying to understand what the engineers are explaining to me. Uh, I like to relax and play guitar and One of those crazy people that over the the pandemic Got all excited about yeast. So I started making sourdough breads and brewing meats and cider so Hidden behind that closet is about Five or six gallons of different Things fermenting away in the closet where you can't see it And then I I have some aging in the basement. So Hopefully in about six months. I'll I'll be able to understand if Uh, if I should keep my day job or not. I'm thinking I should So now we know what's going on when your video feed clicks off tarry We do indeed Well, and that's that's kind of ironic considering as part of rel. We're trying to get faster feedback cycles And yet meat is one of those things that has an absurdly long feedback cycle Yeah, it does we've got to have patients somewhere My my wife and I have a blended family with four kids. Patience is not a term that we use ever around here Yeah, I I should mention too. I have three teenage daughters Who keep me very busy and they have zero patients with me. So That's fun Yeah, I was gonna say I have a two-year-old daughter who allowed me to sleep for about one and a half hours last night So when you ask about hobbies outside of work, it's usually trying to sleep somewhere Or you know keeping them happy bribing the the children That's that's the that's the big one I remember those days our our youngest is currently asleep in her bedroom right now And I'm hoping it's she stays that way for the next 50 minutes or so So bronze any anything else you do other than than trying to sleep Oh, well, uh, I try to go to as many live concerts as I can but that That kind of took a derailment over the last couple of years So waiting to get back into that But yeah, just Enjoy music of all kinds and also play Probably not as good as terry, but I don't get as much practice But yeah What about what about uh, steven carl any Any fun hobbies you guys want to share with the group? As you can probably tell by my accent the the hobby I've got is restoring English motorcycles So I am currently in the middle Of rebuilding a 1972 650 cc bsa Which suffered an electrical fire in 1978 and hasn't turned a wheel since And so I'm in the middle of doing that and it's not my first motorcycle project as they say But speaking of daughters my 35 year old daughter believes the only reason that I have anything to do with motorcycles these days Is it's an excuse to be able to wear leather in public? I love that. Yeah, how am I supposed to follow that off? You're gonna have to buy a squirrel Next round we'll let carl go first I do photography and I shoot on photographic film So, uh, I've got a whole bunch of that type of stuff running around and I've actually got a camera right here with me I've got a whole bunch more, but that's the one that's easily accessible from my desk So is that is that picture behind you when you took carl? It is. Yeah, I took that on my first trip to the isle of sky in scotland back in 2010 or so Very cool. That's beautiful. Although we we should introduce you to the wonderful world of digital photography Familiar with it Well, as you as you can see by the turntable over over And the and the fill and the silver nitrate film in his hand Carl's a fan of analog technology And uh, you can't see it from here, but I do have a closet full of chemistry So, you know terry has a closet full of alcohols and things to drink. I've got a closet full of things. You don't want to drink Actually brian, I don't know if we've ever asked you this question What do you do when you're not real redheading? Well, we'll go with that for the verb today yeah, so If I have a 1974 Volkswagen thing, anybody knows what that is So That's a project to keep keep keep it running and keep everything working on there. So that's a lot of fun and then I do a lot of a lot of woodworking As well, so And then I have three kids so Like bronze was saying, you know that that uh, I can take a lot of time so So rip the engine out of that Volkswagen thing and drop in a portion I'm 14 Yeah, right now it's about 25 horsepower. So that would probably be an upgrade You got an extra one of those laying around Steve you can send over. Yeah No, they they all caught fire or rusted out Well, let's say we have a couple of questions coming in. Um Um First one looks like it's for bronze on on his very narrow cloud scope question question is How does red have planned to clarify the marketing message on aws that linux equals a boon to This is this is this is gonna be a fun one. Um Yeah, I mean that that's I think that highlights One of the biggest challenges In the in the public cloud is the fact that there are so many free justros all With an easy click and they all claim to be The the preferred linux of whatever cloud you are you're using. So There's uh Yeah, I mean there's A lot of ways that we're that we're hoping to to combat this by actually making well the best Linux operating system on aws or azure or any of the others And that's you know, a lot of that is partnering with Terry on the image building and you know pushing images automating that to Make your public cloud cloud life simpler and also working with carl on finding new and creative ways to not only increase performance of rel on the public cloud but also to to To help educate and and inform customers that That not only is it a challenging thing to measure performance on the public cloud, but We're Instead of just telling you that we are the best will give you actual tools to prove that into and to uh, you know, improve your own stack great answer And then it looks like we have one for for terry as well Question was when will we get weep for sento stream eight To sento stream nine Yeah, that is a great question So it's it's a little unclear how much demand there is going to be for that because Ideally sento stream was being positioned as more of a development release That you would use for for ongoing development rather than treating as a pet that you Care for and curate like a traditional stable release So it's one of those things where we have a whole lot of things that we know we need to do Versus this question which comes up a lot But it's not really clear if like the user base once and needs that As well as understanding how much adoption that we're going to see for sento stream So it's a matter of priorities. Uh, so we're thinking about it We're considering it But if if we start working on that then it means we're not working on things that we know the enterprise stable Users absolutely need so it's a matter of priorities and a tremendous amount of known work that we know we would like to do Awesome, and I think it's funny that in the in the chat scott mcbrian One of the hosts of this show is it it looks like we kicked him off the show and and forced him into the chat But he's he's out there answering some questions as well. So thank you scott for for helping us field some of those As we're chatting. He's got a face for radio This is this is your chance to take shots at scott. I mean he's he's obviously listening, but uh But he's not on the on the feed to uh to defend himself. So yeah Pretty sure I'll get a text message from him in a minute Yeah, but you know, you know eric one of his uh, his questions he postives his own question. He's leading me on If you see that uh, elevate is something being developed by alma And it's to in place upgrade their distro. Maybe other downstream builds will also pick it up So I would love to tackle that one if you don't mind go for it So, um, yeah, alma is doing some really interesting stuff with elevate, but what's really interesting is What they're really doing is taking red hats leap upgrade tooling that we started developing For the rel 7 to rel 8 upgrades And so what they're really doing is retrofitting The work that red hat has been doing over the last few years They're retrofitting and adapting that to also work with uh with alma linux. So, um I I I don't mean to say anything negative about alma. I think they're doing a great job at engaging with the community and And doing a good service there by providing what they're doing I just want to call call out that uh, it's all based on the work and efforts of red hat engineers Who've been working on this for quite a few years now We actually started with a different set of tooling to help users upgrade from rel 6 to rel 7 So we have that upgrade path That that is available and all of the lessons learned In the the early days of rel 7 to help users upgrade from rel 6 They learned a lot of hard lessons And so from that they decided we need to develop a different tool framework that they have called leap and um, and that is the tool that enables a better faster more modular mechanism In order to do those upgrades at scale and then uh, alma has taken that the next step and retrofitted it again for the community distros and so they're enabling things like Centos upgrades to alma Um I believe rocky linux is engaging with them too and trying to figure out how to use it I'm not sure the status of that. So definitely that is picking up some steam We are watching that activity In case there are things that we can learn But our leap repositories are essentially the upstream of the alma linux elevate tooling Um We've talked to them a number of times our engineers are talking back and forth. So we're not doing anything to inhibit them um And and so I I have a feeling that we're both going to learn a little bit from one another um, I think In the free community with the the large centos linux ecosystem. There's a lot of other And so they're going to have some troubles figuring out how to deal with you know Those users that are trying to use open zfs with centos or butter fs Those are all unsupported by red hat So our upgrades do not allow converting from centos and then upgrading because those are unsupported components um And and so they're going to have a number of interesting challenges. We're absolutely watching what's going on in that space um And so yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see how all this plays out over time and like I said our engineers talk So it's it should be very interesting awesome See just skimming through the chat looks like It's like steve you've got you you'd have at least one subscriber for your if you Turned your restoration projects into a into a video series Yeah, but I think that means exposing the mess that I call my garage That's a fair point I can I can see steve being a youtube influencer In the motorcycle uh world Okay, I was I was thinking you might say posing around in shiny leather, but okay And then uh, then yeah, if if the robot's uprights then we're all heading to carl's house because he's Analog gear Yeah, so while waiting for some more questions to roll in I had a question for the group What's the uh worst command line mistake you've ever made on a linux system? Oh nice. I like it Now carl, we promise you got to go first Oh I think that the the worst one I've ever done Because I thought I could do this and you can do this was on gen 2 linux And the command could be translated to any linux emerge on merge glibc And when you take glibc off the system, well It becomes rather unusable pretty fast glibc And you know the only way to get glibc back on a system Is to have a tar ball of glibc that you can go hand on that system in a ch rooted environment So I learned that the hard way that yeah glibc is kind of important and you can't just take it off and like compiling it No, I'm not going to happen Uh bronze you want to go next I'm having a real hard time coming up with anything Uh, it's yeah I don't know. I might have to pass while I keep thinking Okay, we'll come back so so so while he's thinking let me say that I'm not I'm not sure I can remember the The worst command line mistake I made but when I was in Unix tech support I got called out to a customer that had removed all the contents of their dev directory while the system was running and And amazingly enough the system was still up and operating just because all the i nodes were in use and therefore You know had hadn't been deleted yet Um, and by the time I got there they'd in sheer panic had shut the system down So that was the that was the end of that as I as I walked through the door What about you what about you terry? Oh, man, I was a terrible sys admin for many years I actually it's a toss up between two Uh the first when I was I wasn't completely new to logical volume manager Um, but I wouldn't say I was a seasoned pro yet either. I've been maybe using it for a year or so and uh, I was messing around with the new snapshotting capability and I was I was I forget exactly what I was doing but uh, I merged snapshots in the wrong way and I basically reverted to The old one rather than the new version with the changes that I wanted So so I lost all the changes that I did the snapshotting for and each other was I was using red hat linux nine and not enterprise the the old red hat linux without enterprise in the name and um I was using software raid and um, I had a a failed disk and so I was trying to Remove that from the set and again, I did it wrong and I removed the good one And for some reason it wouldn't let me restore that back into the set because the other known good drive was corrupted and I thought that was supposed to work, but I couldn't figure out the options to get it to work properly Fortunately, I had a full backup. So I was able to just restore from tape Uh, but that was actually an important production server. So Thank goodness. We had an incremental backup from the night before so Pretty much no data loss But you know, I messed up software. So those are my hero stories And now we know why you work on the install part of the rel story Yeah, they did not assign the storage experience I've got a pretty good one so a I'll start with a PSA with it with a public service announcement Don't make any changes at four o'clock on a friday afternoon. Just just don't ever do it I don't care how certain you are don't touch production on a friday afternoon So we I was uh, it's funny when you're a linux systems administrator How you get assigned all these other hats. So I was the linux guy I was our sand guy and I was our backup guy And I think there was one other one But those were those were the major hats I wore and I was the only linux guy Um, and our dba's were doing an oracle, uh rack, uh cluster upgraded. So, you know, I wasn't busy But we uh, we had uh a sand That we were we were trying to just keep limping along. It was it was old It was out of maintenance. It's like we just we just need you to last a little bit longer You know through the end of the quarter and so we we'd actually run out of space And we needed to expand a couple of discs and I found a couple of I found a lund that was like four terabytes or something crazy like that and um So I I look at my manager and go this this lund is huge And it doesn't look like it's been updated in months. So there's not any live connections It's like do do we want to just delete this? I was oh, yeah, yeah, I I thought we got rid of that months ago So we deleted it went home for the weekend I get a call on saturday afternoon This is one of those situations where like two people in the entire company use this as a reference database And that's where the database data was stored So we got to spend literally the next week and this is during finals I was in school for my masters. We had a group project do the following week I mean just a perfect storm of all the don'ts don't do maintenance changes when you're in finals week And don't do maintenance changes on friday afternoons, but long story short We ended up having to take a red hat enterprise or no no red hat advanced server 2.4 2.5 system and we had to actually Create a rel 4 red hat enterprise linux 4 virtual machine running on vmware Because that was the oldest version of red hat that that our vmware based hypervisor could support And we basically had to just do a file by file copy from red hat as 2. Whatever it's a to this rel 4 box For the operating system itself then we had to then we had to swing the lones over To the new system and reboot and bring the database up. It took us almost a week to do this We ended up having to restore 4 terabytes of data from tape Oh, it was it was so much fun Needless to say I We put in some pretty stringent Change management protocols after that And they were surprised but I chose not to renew my contract at that particular place of employment Man just just a concept of tape that sounds like something Carl should have That's that's in his basement He's he's got his chemistry set in his closet and his his tape drives in the basement No, I had this I had this vision of like a big old revoc sitting in his closet With how many engines are catching fire at Steve's place. I don't think he needs any paper All right, bronze we we gave you some time I don't think yours could could trump money No, I know I've had the uh, the the fortunate position of Like 95 of my command line life has been but for hobby not uh, not for job and uh, so I know that there was a Time where I was troubleshooting something and I changed the system time And that does not Go well with two-factor authentication Um, yeah, I just locked myself out of my own box for quite a while, but that's I mean it's it's a Very low stakes compared to yours But isn't it funny how in those situations those two people that still use this one database application always scream the loudest louder than anyone else in the company let's see And so if if you uh, if you want to join us in chat you can follow uh You can follow along with the chat conversation on youtube. We're on open shift and rel Uh, we're on open shift on twitch and we've got a discord server as well So still plenty of time left to to jump in and share your uh, share your questions with us I'm not seeing any other question Yeah, sorry go ahead carl. I didn't say you guys talking about backups Did remind me of this time that I was actually on site with a customer major financial exchange in new york And uh, we were upgrading their satellite server satellite version five and uh, one of the things that satellite five Had a habit of doing was not telling you What was going to be required from a database standpoint and we got to this point we were doing the upgrade it should have gone super smooth and uh, the uh table space and the oracle database ran out of space and the upgrade just said oops Sorry, there's no more space in tip tbs. I can't do anything i'm done Anybody who's hit that knows that at that moment you've hosed the satellite And so it's the production satellite major exchange. We're in manhattan just sitting around you know, it should be lunch time pretty soon, right? and it's like, um, um You got a backup Thankfully they had a backup, but uh sitting there watching the painful process of the restore of the oracle database It's like, okay. Now we've got this back up. We have to test make sure it still works Okay, now we're going to shut the whole thing down and we're going to expand tip tbs to be something much bigger so that we get through it That was kind of a high-pressure So we we've we've definitely all got our horror stories, but I wanted to share Something cool about being in it in this in this day and age because when I when I got into information technology Uh virtual machines were were very new. They were I mean the first time that I saw a live migration between hypervisor hosts It was like dark magic It was it was so cool to see and to go from carrying a literal pager to To getting messages on on slack or a text message or something when a system goes down Watching that progression and going from dial up to now now our house here has like two gig fiber connection I mean, it's it's been crazy to watch the the industry just explode even even in the short time I've I've worked full time But one of the coolest moments one of the coolest would be disasters so kind of a kind of a horror story in reverse is I worked for a company here in Kansas City where our team used to take uh friday afternoons And go and and hang out we'd get lunch somewhere we worked our office was downtown So we're within walking this sense of a number of different restaurants So we just the three or four of us would go out and we just you know I have some team building and we'd hang out and we chat And no sooner one day. I won't forget this No sooner did we uh, did we get down to a restaurant? We we got a table we we pulled up our menus, but one of the dba's called us and and uh database was One of the database nodes or utility server something was hung nothing was nothing was down, but it was you know, this is an issue And I I won't forget pulling out my blackberry pearl if any of you remember those And connecting to the company vpn and pulling up this absolutely terrible looking terminal emulation client logging into uh a linux server remotely from our table And going yes, it's cpu's running really hot But you know response times are terrible. Can we just bounce the box? Oh, yeah sure go ahead And so just sent a sudo reboot command from my phone at a restaurant to our co-located data center 25 miles away We didn't even have to come back to the office to fix it We went on we had our lunch and we had a great time and for some reason that that moment of This is so cool. I can now do my job literally from anywhere Just has stuck with me for for years. That was probably 2011 2010 when that happened So so Eric, you know that the uh, the rel web console is compatible with mobile phone browsers now, right? Uh, you you have no idea how much I wish that I had like an ipad pro or Or uh, or had the web console or anything back in the day when I was a sysad man I think that's one of the reasons why I love doing this show is we we talk a lot about, you know, what's new in rel 8 and It's just about anything That we talk about anything that we release from image builder to insights to to the web console. It's like gosh This is such a cool feature not because of not because of what this feature is but I could I could see There there was this moment as the systems administrator where I could have used this Where is where was this stuff when I was a sysad man? And and it's so cool to like you said, I mean right here I can if if I had Production systems right here. I could I could administer them from anywhere I'll get up in my soapbox now No, it does make you think that where we're going to be in like 10 years or 20 years with how fast things have changed and that That's a perfect segue. Let's let's uh, I was thinking that too Yeah Thanks, bronze. So bronze gets go first. Yeah, you go first Where where do you guys think the industry is heading next year? Like what should we what should we be looking out for? Well, I mean, it's definitely being crammed into the cloud. That's for for sure whether or not You want to go to the cloud? You're going to be forced there probably by somebody somebody that signs the checks So yeah, that's I mean It's crazy. I mean It's crazy how that's gonna. I mean, yeah That part I know for sure The rest is a question So I think I think over the next 12 months we're gonna see A lot more of the progress of almost every executable in the world becoming repackaged as a container In in one way or the other. I mean, I don't think there's I don't think there's any doubt about that That over the next 12 months, I think the whole containerization thing is going to proliferate across the entire industry And I have to say that a couple of years ago as I was as I was watching the docker standard evolve and that kind of thing There was a lot of people in the organization I was in back then that were really taking the point of view That the whole level of the operating system or the interface between the hardware and the and the containerized application Was going to become commoditized Just purely by this this Containerization movement and it's interesting to see how actually that hasn't happened And the operating system level that many of us deal with is still not only just not only popular But it's starting to evolve completely different aspects That I hadn't perceived as possible a couple of years ago and it's interesting to see the way that management Of of what's going on inside the operating system is becoming such an important focus for almost every developer there So there you go. There's my there's my 20 cents on what I think is going to happen over the next year All right, Carl. You're up next. All right. Yeah, so I agree with what bruntz and steve Have both said I mean containerization and the move to the public cloud are definitely huge drivers of our industry But there are some industries That consume a lot of it services that are digging their heels in and staying in the data center So I think that there may actually be a group of people out there that don't ever actually Embrace the public cloud. So we're definitely going to continue to see this hybrid model where we've got to be able to play to both I don't think that that data center is going away. Uh, so is that going to diminish over time? Yes Clearly people are going to the public cloud no doubt about that But I think that the hybrid model is going to be something that we see quite a lot of And with the proliferation of edge devices in our future that we're already starting to see this year And I think we're just going to see that continue to ramp up next year You're going to have a lot of stuff that's at the periphery of the cloud as well So I don't think that things outside the cloud are dying off anytime soon Yeah, and I think that's the I think that's the great thing about the whole hybrid mechanism is that that you as a customer You as a customer can decide this is what I own and this is what I lease or rent or however you want to think of Uh, the public cloud side of of hybrid. So if you've got Applications and data that are really near and dear to your heart and you want to maintain Like complete control over those the hybrid cloud is going to let you do that But if you've got you know seasonal requirements for compute capacity that you don't necessarily want to own then sure A public cloud is the place for you. Yeah, I think I definitely think there will be a kickback at some point where It was like, oh man, we made a huge mistake for this for this part of our business We got to jump back over here and I also think multicloud is going to become huge because I mean right now everyone's You know different their toes in the water and signing those, you know single vendor contracts, but I mean vendor lock-in is always going to be a thing that you know We all saw the aws outage a few weeks ago. I mean if you're entirely on aws, you're down If you've got a multicloud approach, you could still be up Yeah And anybody could go down. It's not just I'm not saying amazon's bad or anything It's just they happen to be the one who had the outage Exactly, right. Exactly. I think I remember amazon saying that that was caused by over overload at the networking devices level So it again, it's it's a clear indication that management of all the strata inside the cloud is a real issue Yeah, I think decentralization is a big big thing that we're going to start to see a lot of And I think that having a multicloud approach really moves you towards a decentralized future Well, and that just goes to show you don't don't use us east one but Well, you can't I mean, there's nothing wrong with us east one It's it's just that if all your eggs are in us east one and it goes down then, you know, that's what happens Well to to steven browns's point it's it's funny to watch the trends in the industry because We're we're we're extremists as technologists. It seems like Anytime the new shiny comes out. It's everything is going virtual. I mean, that's that's what it was 10 years ago everything is a virtual machine now and then You know hardware is dead as long as you have a hypervisor. You don't need anything else and then all of a sudden it was Everything's going to the public cloud virtual machines data centers. It's all dead and we're going to the cloud and then kind of alongside It's everything's going to be a container now everything's going to be in kubernetes and virtual machines and rpms it's all dead and And it's it seems like we've gotten over that hump with things like kubernetes and open shift and and the same with With the cloud is we've we've gone to that everything else is dead to well We still kind of need some we we still need a hardware footprint somewhere and and I think we started to see that this year and and I think I can't speak to the kubernetes space, but I think from a multicloud and hybrid cloud type approach, we're we're starting to see some saying default some Some standard operating procedures start to start to surface And it's it's too early in the game to say what exactly those are but I think the the industry is start starting to settle on this hybrid model brown So you look like you got something you wanted to add to that. Well, yeah, I mean like I honed in on the the fact that you're bringing up hardware and also standardization I think another interesting thing to keep that I'm really looking forward to keeping an eye on is the proliferation of arm and into all of these hyperscalers wherever I mean wherever you like Everyone's making their own all the big all the big ones are making their own and they're coming out with them every few months new instance types um and You know for for a company like us that's that's was historically built on you know focusing in on hardware vendors and chips that's that we knew about five years in advance and planning for etc um, that's all kind of being turned around its head and I mean Everyone's coming out with their own custom silicon every few months and and seeing I do think we will see like a like a self policing standardization eventually come out, but I think it's going to be an interesting watch in that interim time where Everyone is still trying to figure that out You know with apple proving that you can get more performance for for for less out of the arm chip Um, I think you're gonna see a lot of people jumping into that pool So it's gonna be fun to watch All right, terry. Let's let's hear your thoughts What should we be looking out for for the next 12 months? Uh for the next 12 months. Well, um, you know Steve and and bronson carl answered so well. I I have very roll nine roll nine There you go. Yeah We're working on and we're excited to see all the adoption of both syntosh stream and fedoras and increasingly becoming more and more popular So all of those things and you know, I want to echo what steve was saying You know a lot of a lot of people have been thinking over the last few years that You just stuff everything into containers and then you forget about it. And that is so not true I mean you look at this Vulnerability just this past week about log for j All of those traditional problems Containers make it really easy for developers But that doesn't free you of the burden of long-term maintenance and being able to answer those security questions so just so that you you easily Package something up and distribute it and it felt easy You still have work to do you have to answer to your chief security officer three years down the road when That college intern that wrote that application. That's now part of a key workflow of your business Maybe your sales process or your supply chain Now you have this thing that nobody remembers how it was assembled Where's the blueprint for that containerized application? How do we How how does how do our management tools know how to scan all these things running in my environment and report that back that they are safe That they're securely patched that they have a vendor supported Life cycle to it whether that vendor support is coming from a community like alma linux or Preferably red hat enterprise linux But those are really hard questions And I think I think rel continues to show its value of subscription Every year new things like these keep surfacing and remind us that All of these things these benefits that we say this is the value of rel that we we have these errata feeds we have these Long supported minor release version options for you We have these extended life cycle options to act as a bridge so that when you hit the end of days of rel seven and uh, or or even with centos eight That we have these options for you to help you monitor modernize your environments So I think that is always going to continue to repeat itself and and remind people that These things things matter And and just because something is shiny and feels easy Doesn't necessarily mean that it meets the the security and the critical nature of running your business on Aside from that i'm really excited about our new image builder service So I want to echo what what bronze was saying about both hybrid cloud And multi cloud and so that's one of the things we're really excited about image builder It's it's this new tool that makes it really easy to Assemble the rel os in a consistent Consistent automated way and and that's um Predictable that that you know that you can define this is my blueprint of what my minimal rel or my SAP workload on rel should look like now I want to build that for amazon for azure or for a bare metal system or for the edge use case So we're building out this tooling to give you A really consistent build pipeline because today if you want to install an os whether it's rel Ubuntu susa anything You're using the the old school classic installer media And you're going to be using a tool like packer or something or manual And you're basically going to go through an old school install process customizing that Probably in a virtual environment and then when you shut that down the linux kernel makes changes based on the environment It sees so as soon as you boot that up and activate that kernel and it starts making decisions You have to then clean it up and sanitize it before you can move it to another environment. So we're really excited about the way Our image builder tool works It creates these perfect pristine images that the kernel has never booted before So it eliminates that fragile process of doing the the cleanup and sanitization And it creates that image appropriate for the environment that it needs to run in So it takes the guesswork off of And the technical burden off of our users shoulders And it does the needful so that the customers the users all they have to worry about is the workload The things that they want to care about Not what they have to care about like what do I have to do to make this Work on vmware and on azure we take care of that for you All you have to do is take care of the things that you want to worry about Your workload. So I'm really excited about We just launched the public beta service at console dot red hat dot com slash beta If you go there and click on Enterprise linux, you'll see a new option there as long as you have at least our no cost developer subscription you can go there And click on image builder and try it out So we're really excited about that and seeing all the feedback we get over the next year from them Sorry, that was a very long-winded answer. Oh, that was great. That was great. Thanks, Terry So another question You know, yeah, go ahead Eric I just wanted to point out that I threw a link to the image builder beta Blog announcement into the chat. So if you want to check that out, there's more information there Go ahead Brian. Yeah, one question I had for the group is What is a A feature or functionality in rel that has recently been released or that's coming soon That you're most excited about Well, I think terry's made it obvious that image builder is a service or what did we ever settle on an official name? We just call it image builder and it's available in two ways. It's hosted In insights so that you don't need your own build environment Or you can install rel in your own data center and have have it on premises But really it's just image builder And depending on the concept text whether it's local or in the cloud Hosted, I don't know. It's not a different name So too confusing And I think to piggyback on the image builder stuff There's recent functionality to be able to to build a customized image And push it to To the cloud of your choice straight from the hosted image builder or the or the non-hosted image builder and also Connect your cloud provider account to your red hat account and auto register anything that you bring up on the cloud we're I'm really excited about those just because it just makes management And and keeping track of everyone that's spinning on machines on the public cloud much easier So you don't get a ballooned invoice at the end of the month Carl, how about you? So my favorite is the performance metrics page in the web console in red hat enterprise linux 8.5 We brought in the Journal logs from system d into that web page as well So basically that gives you some cards across the top that tell you live performance statistics across the key areas of compute resources On your system and then as you go through the bottom of the page It shows you the historical usage if you have a performance co-pilot installed and logging historical metrics and effectively You get to see Utilization and saturation graphed over and graphs on the right and then on the left You've got errors events and log messages that may be correlated to that So if you see like a spike in utilization of a resource There should be some corresponding logs if they were picked up by the journal And there are some scenarios where those do actually align and it really gives you a good idea of what may have caused This performance situation to happen and that's really exciting because that's been a hard problem to solve How do we help you better understand what caused a performance problem? Well, this is a good step in that direction Also, uh things like bpf trace going full support in rel 9, which is our current plan, you know, we haven't released it yet so A standard product manager disclaimer. You can't trust anything. I say I'm a product manager But that is the plan is that we are going to go forward With that being full support and it's certainly everything is getting a lot better in that space and a lot more mature And it's exciting to see Bpf kind of grow up and and become something more than it was when we've really stayed Brian, how about you? Yeah, so one one thing we're working on right now upstream is a fire wall Linux system roll. So there's been a lot of a lot of work going on there, which is really cool um And then like carl said the web console stuff I mean, there's just a lot of really good stuff going on there in rel 8.5 We introduced the ability to do live kernel patching From the web console um, you know, super excited about that. Yep, and um yeah, just If you like I was I was working with with real 9 beta using the web console to work with virtual machine management and Using the pod man plugin to work with containers There's just a lot of really good functionality in the web console with with you know the latest really 5 and 9 beta so So i'd like to point out that between brian terry bronze and carl They're all product managers and they have specific areas within rel that they support And when when we ask the question what cool new features coming out they all just look to their own pod to to uh to promote so steve You got to help me out here, buddy. What's what are you excited about with with uh with rel? You saw your your uh your job title is so confusing that I don't even know what it means So why don't you why don't you tell us what's coming out that that you're excited about? All righty The stuff that's coming out that i'm really excited about is is the way that system roles are starting to Expand and progress and I think the combination of system roles and the integration with ansible automation is going to be really key For people that are building large I don't know clusters whatever you want to call it um It's really addressing the the issue of system admin scalability as far as i'm as i'm concerned And it's that level of automation that I think is going to turn Turn the corner for us in terms of managing of having system admins managing enormously large clouds That was a really good answer steve Oh, okay. I don't I don't own any any product. So yeah, no as the system as the system rolls I didn't even know the only thing here the only thing brian heard was system rolls. He's like yep Steve's steve's got it. He's smart There there's a lot to to what steve said I'm I am excited about about the entire call it a story or an experience but Going from doing all this by hand When when I first started I worked for companies that literally had word docs not not in not in google drive But had word docs that got shared around from person to person So there was no there's no Consistency because I might have made a couple of changes And then I didn't share out with the whole team and then somebody else made some changes And so you're not working off the same information And like terry said you end up using anaconda or something to do a basic install If you were really cool 10 years ago, you used anaconda but with kickstart So you didn't have to type everything out every time But I mean it's just going from an ad hoc Pet type mentality to being able to deploy my workloads anywhere from multiple different clouds To my own data center to an edge device that could be hanging off a telephone pole 100 miles away And doing all of that with a combination of standard templates using image builder with broad spectrum Configuration definitions with system roles to individual configuration changes with ansible playbooks that can be tied to either a host group or To individual systems to the performance And management stuff that carl was talking about I don't I don't have to go through 16 different log files anymore With with an excel spreadsheet open on my second monitor writing down time stamps and copying log Entries over and going okay This system was doing this at this time and then a couple of milliseconds later This system did this in response and then bronze changed the system time over here So, you know, I'm not sure which which system did what at what time that caused this issue I don't have to do that anymore. I just look at I look at the web UI and go. Oh, here's the problem right here Here's the spike. Here's the log entries for that exact moment in time So it is so much easier to deploy my entire infrastructure. It is so much easier to manage everything Because let's let's face it most companies aren't adding systems administrators to to their payroll at best You're keeping the same number of people employed And and that's that's it. So the you look to your left and you look to your right Well virtually now, but Those are the people that you have to work with you're not going to just get to go out and hire three more people So you've got to make up that that that time somewhere So if you can get these golden images and automation if you can get these things in place It leaves so much more to be said for being a systems administrator nowadays So much more time to do cool new projects to take time off without getting paged on vacation I I am honestly and truly excited about the entire experience because I think with rel 8 and more so in the past year and with with nine coming out next year I think more and more that is becoming easier to manage and administer these increasingly complex applications and infrastructures And still use the same platform. I mean it's it's rel everywhere. It's rel in containers. It's rel on the cloud It's rel in the data center It's it's rel on on your desktop and and now with things like ubi containers and virtual machine images from image builder You can actually develop on your local system push the code up to a git repository and you're you're good I mean the the entire experience has gotten so much better in the last year I mean it was never terrible to begin with but it's The the progress we've made going forward is so incredible I mean there's no better time to be a Linux systems administrator in my book Right. I'm Brian Smith. Thank you. Thanks for the 50 bucks, man Oh well played well played Well with that we are at the top of the hour. So to wrap up, uh, Steve Is there anywhere people can go to find you? Do you have a github or a twitter or or something where we can we can Stay in touch with you. I don't but you can always hit me up with email at my red hat address So s1less at redhat.com awesome Carl I just thought about this. I will let you decide what to share, sir Yeah, uh, so You can reach out to me at kabit kabb ott at redhat.com And uh, that's a good way to get in touch I'm also on linkedin if you want to go find me on linkedin happy to accept requests over there, too Some brunts Yeah, obviously, obviously on linkedin like every human on earth Um, but uh, I do I do have a twitter. It's bmclaim um at brontz is Taken and it's uh, one of the more frustrating things because it's been taken. It was like account created on like the first day of twitter and hasn't been used since And I would like that Property but I can't can't seem to get my hands on it. So They don't they don't respond to my emails All right team money, where can we find you sir? uh, yeah, so I'm uh team money on many chat platforms like, uh IRC on uh Free node and uh, what is the new one Libra? Libra node or cyber chat. Yeah, Libra chat. That's it. Um, so so sometimes you'll see me as that Uh, you even find me lurking around on the alma linux chat server Uh, you other places like that. Um Uh, and then I'm at terry underscore bowling on twitter. That's probably the easiest place to find me Uh, but also really easy to find on facebook and Uh, other places to linkedin But probably the twitter's easiest place to find me Mr. Smith, where can we find you sir? Yeah, I'm on I'm on linkedin and then uh, I also have a red hat blog So, uh, you can follow my blog and check out the new stuff we're working on with things like uh system roles and web console Awesome I'm at it guy eric on pretty much every social media channel and chat platform that you can find Um, you can also follow red hat enterprise linux on twitter. Uh, funny funny. You mentioned that bronze because, um We're going to do we're going to do at rel but someone registered it like six years ago and Has posted like three times. I think in spanish and Never again. Um, so we are at red hat rel So I know that the it's already been pointed out in the comments that uh, the rh is redundant considering we have red hat But I think red hat rel is a little easier to remember than red hat el or or having to type out Red hat enterprise linux every single time that you want to uh tag us so the These guys have said it. Um, but I want to reiterate the fact that everyone that I work with, um A lot of these folks I had relationships with or knew of before I came to red hat and even before I came to marketing So when they say reach out ask me questions engage with me, um, I can I can at least speak for this group And a lot of others that they mean it engage engage with folks. That's why we're that's why we did a fireside chat today Um, we're brian and I are talking about doing this on about a quarterly basis or so To just bring in different folks from from the red hat enterprise linux team and chat and have a conversation Get your all those questions, but also just kind of sit back and have a good time These are these are real people. We all we all work on this thing all day every day We talked to I talked to brian more than I talked to my wife some weeks, but uh But you know and engage with us engage with the community because that's what red hat enterprise linux is It's it's it's a product, but it's also part of the upstream terry even mentioned, uh Some of the some of the royal clones were we're active everywhere So if you can't find any of us just go to linkedin And uh and nag brian he he can get ahold of us all but uh, thank you all for joining us Those of you that joined us live if you miss the show we're live every other Every other wednesday. I'm sorry every other wednesday at 2 p.m. Eastern on youtube and twitch Carl steve terry bruntz. Thank you guys for for joining us. Thank you for giving up an hour of Of your of your day. You're either winding down and don't feel like taking on anything new as we get to the end of the year or um You're you're just bored out of your mind and and decided to to spend an hour with us But definitely appreciate the four of you joining us today um brian the only other thing I can think to mention is this is it for 2021 rel presents is uh, this is it we're done But uh, I had to look it up actually uh, our next show will be january 11th And I believe we'll be talking about microsoft sequel on rel So we'll be talking about the system roll that just came out. We'll talk about some of the web ui Interactions with with sequel server on rel as well as insights So we had some good toondi improvements that uh dropped in 8 5 for that as well So better performance as you go on through the rel 8 series Definitely really excited to talk about microsoft sequel here in just a few weeks But uh until then thank you all very much have a wonderful, uh set of holidays and uh, we look forward to chatting again soon Until then Thank you all thanks guys Thank you everyone