 We started today with this week of Plataire with one of our main activities which is called The Panel and Debate in Latin America today. We have three panel members moderated by Mauricio Barrilla. Mauricio, please say hello. Hello. Hello. Mauricio is a playwright and teacher of the University of Chile in the School of Theater and he will be in charge of listening to the presentation, so the provocation that we have prepared for you of these three panel members and then he will then create a good discussion and then we will have Q&A session, hopefully lots of questions. So enjoy it. Ok, thank you very much, Maria José, good afternoon, and this is a match of freshers that are outside. It is very hot, and this week is going to be very hot in this city of Santiago, but hopefully this heat will be as well projected to be projected to all our bodies because what we started today is the beginning of some of the initiative that was due to be projected along the week, and the idea of Plataire 17 and the stretchable of Santiago Middle. I believe it is an interesting idea in terms of all the non-programmers to see, but we are invited to open to this course, which is a link to the work you do, which is programming and curating, and which are decisions which are not only based on your tastes, but which are also ideological nature because somehow theater, the one who goes towards the world, is an idea of you presenting the world, and somehow as well this shape of presentation is what are presented in contradiction. So we live in a very complex world today, apparently globalized in many senses, but with an urgency of particularizing or individualizing the identity of the territories, which obviously is important, and this is as well shaped in all this logic of programming. So the question open to this panel is a question which is very open as well in terms of what is, what do we understand by Latin America today, and the idea is not to come to an answer, but maybe two or three, but maybe the idea is just to trigger, to activate on you this question, and the possibility of breaking our prejudges, obviously we all have, on what day the Latin American scene today, an exportable scene from Latin America, et cetera. That is why in order to have this debate done, to have this conversation triggered, we have invited three good, a good some people that in ten minutes only they will present an activating idea, provoking ideas, more than an academic lecture. It is just an idea, hopefully not to converge, but hopefully they will clash so that once each of them will present this polemic idea, then the forum will be open 360 degrees so that everybody would participate by asking, dialoguing, commenting. Forgetting this structure, this is rigid structure that we are separated by this counter and try to generate a circulation. We are theater people, understand that theater is circulation, is energy, and this is what hopefully we can produce today among our bodies and minds. I will introduce them all first, and I will offer the stage to them. My extreme left, Claudia Zapata, she is a teacher of history, specialized in Latin American studies, and she works in the center of Latin American studies in Chile. I had the pleasure to meet her in the last hemispheric of performance that was done in Chile, and I believe that she is someone that obviously has something to say in terms of this question of what is Latin American today. To my left, or to my right, it's all relative. To my left is Damien Cervantes, Damien is an actor Mexican, and theater director of Vaca 35, a company that is performing two plays in the festival in this company with a long trajectory, ten years this year. And today is a very pleasant for us to have the view from an artist that somehow he feels that he is a real body in terms of what are these curating policies. And to the other side, I'm not going to say the word, it's Héctor Ponce, he's a researcher, my colleague as well from the theater department and a specialist in the area of Latin American theater. As you say, he's a very varied panel, quite interesting, and the next panel members are you. So you are kindly invited to be very attentive towards the notions presented here and to contribute to the dialogue. We are going to have ten minutes presentation, I'm going to tell them what's the time to present their ideas and then we're close. If needed, I can do a comment, otherwise we'll go directly to the word from you. So just be prepared, you have arms so that you can shoot very quickly. So thank you very much, and first I will offer them the floor to Claudio Zapata. Good afternoon. Well, by professional deformation I did my notes, hopefully I can do it more loosely. I want to find this opportunity to participate here and talk, and obviously to Maria José and Mauricio Barria that they invited me to be here and to start by saying that I feel myself part of the area of culture, although fear I do not know very much, so this is my starting point. I come from the cultural Latin American studies as an area where we analyze the history, the culture of the continent, trying to put the emphasis on their problematic situation and more than in the stability of it. And thank you to talk, to allow me to talk to you, the actors in culture, in this continent in the moment that I, at least I feel, and when you feel so proud of being Latin America, but now I feel myself in pain, not because of a complaint, because we are coming through important and difficult moments. It is difficult for the world, but to the Latin American world as well, not to tell you any cases, any more cases we are talking with my mother, what happens in Chile in Brazil, what is going on in Mexico, in Central America and the Caribbean, so I believe that it is a tolerating moment and this has to do with the critical reflections that we can share and see how we can face this complex moment. Starting from the things, the issues that I have worked along this year has to do with something in principle very specific, which is the Indian or indigenous movement and indigenous writings, but I have gone to a much more cross-cutting reflections on things that I believe that are challenges that we all share and they have to do with affecting on the place, the place of the peoples, our nations and this continent in the world, in a world that despite everything which is said on globalization is sealed, quite higher Christ, where we still have the imperialisms, where we still have the economical dominions and war as an expression of this conflict and from this small issue in principle, truth is that, and there is a long tradition in Latin America about that, I have come to the concerns on the contemporary colonialism and together with this on racism and the interweaving of different processes with social classes and gender. So I feel that those are particular kinds of oppression that in culture they have a privileged action. In the culture we have hierarchies, de-historization in a symbolic violence without which you don't understand the material depriving or even the missing. And colonialism as always has been a complex of problems. I believe that is still here with us and we can identify a colonialism between countries, but not only among countries but also among peoples as inside the countries of Latin America, but I believe that is the same in Asia and in Europe, not to take a Europe out of this problem area that they have, there are all problems, internal problems and internal conolializations. And just to come to the painting point that has to do with the conolias that has not yet finished between Europe and the United States and somehow was called the third world, I believe that independently of this category today is not sufficient. I still believe that it's necessary to mention this macro level where there is a place of experiment for colonialism. And something that has to do with the work in culture that we do, that has to do with identifying from my point of view how has been so fundamental for the settling of an ideological conolialism, which is material, but also ideological, the creation of the otherness, the otherness in the function within this conolialism construct. Because from my point of view, it's not only a cultural otherness, it is always an inferior kind of an otherness or out of our world. And I believe our world in brackets because in Latin American countries there are sectors that assume a place of central discuss this course although we have been exotized in other places of the world. And this is an otherness which is inferior, it can be addressable and ingenious. And as part of this construct we have the exotization of the others. And as I mentioned, different levels of conolialism between countries, inside the countries, also we have a chain of exotization that is relevant to continue warning about that. There is with the concurred people, with the racialized people, they have warned in our work that I have done on the intellectuals of the indigenous people where we have this cause in them which is very difficult to digest because the indigenous peoples are identified with other things, whether rural use space, with nature, with a different tradition, not necessarily with the spaces of intersection but with the hegemonical culture which is writing, it is the city, it is the political practice, it's even university. I believe anyway that those parameters of authenticity are expressed in the Latin American field as well. And I would like to dwell on the relevance to identify on this exotization because of the strengths because they are speech because they are present in the conolial speeches, et cetera. But I believe that with this idea I would like to talk to you as well. I believe that unfortunately, and I warn very dangerously in the discourses of solidarity and brave indication, I believe that you can be or start making solidarity by exotizing and this is something to be discussed. I'm not out of this construct which are very long lasting. I believe, I think, I'm thinking for example on this imposition of authenticity onto the indigenous peoples for example and by extension to the Latin Americans themselves and to have seen that many years ago, 20 years maybe, I saw it when I saw the Europeans in the civil society being in solidarity with that saboteurs where we have both exotizations, the Europeans and the Latin Americans. So the indigenous were thought as a culture that would be there maintained but not transforming as something from nature, from innocence even. This explains that coming from sectors of the left we can even feel some this courage in fact as the people who are in fact being so disheartened when they come to the indigenous cultures or some indigenous being affiliated in some political parties they were not that indigenous because they are linked to the occidental world and in fact they are not that pure and I insist that it can be seen with a certain idea of a Latin American as a primitive rebellion not interfered by external ideologies and it is this way that we are a satellite from others all the Latin Americans were as the non-modern thing or even the magic things those are images that put us out of history and they have the function of putting in the sphere of the civilized who is this course going to be replicated so it is called in what we call the alternative economies not Buddhism or the cultural tourism which is a metropolitan figure that is modern and civilized and that is going to see the one who is not even to learn new ways of life but we have the distance a fracture in the culture which is more fictional than real and by saying so I believe that and I am out of time with good and bad intentions I believe that those are in discourses with lots of stereotypes that they show a complex kind of history but from the world of art we are called to make them complex still more complex this is an eternal interrogation where I can see in theater or even in cinema or in music there is lots of replications of these images but also lots of discussion and I stay with one because I feel that it is a way of discussing places where these stereotypes they come to their culmination for example in the cultural industries and as we were talking with our colleagues from Mexico a very known example is the one of a Frida Kahlo with a filter with no problem areas in fact to understand this nation as complex as Mexico and Latin America in turn so this appropriation of the cultural industries that they have to be discussed I will stay as well with a very recent example still more abrupt the publication in Spain of a book from Elena Garro a Mexican girl that she is a very problematic person in Mexico in political terms I will say and because of all the literary elaboration that even comes before the boom of literature and she said she said sorry in the Spanish editorial says Elena Garro the woman of Octavio Paz the lover of Casares the inspirer of Valcia Marques and admired by Borges poor she said I would like dentists to end that with a question that I have having you here I know that the Latin Americans are the Latin Americans I would like to interrogate those people for example when you come to to show in your countries what you feel that it is absolutely absolutely authentic Latin America what is the metropolitan people trying to consume as something Mexican Chilean Latin American what are the images that we consume do we consume stereotypes or those problematizing discourses that are full in theater in theater as well this is a question that I would render to all of the dominating sectors the abuse of the exploited ones and what is consumed from that as a Latin American or as a Chilean or Brazilian or Mexican identity this is my question to conclude thank you thank you very much Claudia this is getting the right temperature this discussion so I now want to give the word to Fabian good afternoon well my my talk will be focused on the other side I probably come from somewhere else my professional is different because I do see it and I think that the place where I can problematize this subject is from my experience from a fringe theater independent group which came up in a complex city like Mexico City complex based on culture and Mexican Latin American general how has our way been deployed how did we open our way in international arts I would like to ask the question from this place why did this happen why do we have theater groups who always start from the same thing the idea of the theater per se representation of the world and directly in the niche of the markets you have to know how to sell this and to distribute this you are here because of that me too so I think we are analyzing this is the way I could problematize this issue which has got all the connections to the academic reflection we just heard from Claudia and much much better study than what I could say with a group of thousands we have been existing for 10 years now this year working in theater we our group started out of necessity to break up with the established dynamics we then had the Mexican theater is no news for anybody lived in a kind of obscure religion where nobody knew about the theater and all developing Latin America was developing with very specific emblematic groups but not Mexico Mexico was in a sort of internal development sort of creative institutional but I think that hasn't changed much it's just changing the way still no students from these schools these institutions created by these people were subdued Mexican theater for so long and here you want to break up of these lotics of the students we decided to break up first of all the idea of in a country where everything is in a primitive way we want to this is something fundamental something which today for me is the best way of resistance anyway because developers horizontal structure which grows together with others and strengthens the presence of those who we are and not the creator of a system of course we are always struggling against the system which privilege is the individual creator of the the director of the group and it's always somebody the director of the group speaking in public discussions because he's one who knows he's the head of it so I think the development of a group always has to do with the capacity which I have seen in my context in Latin America because I can compare and I have travelled around as well and I can compare creating these connections of construction cultural real cultural construction that implies a way of life implies changing a decision against the system which is that we do not be willing to earn a lot of money and we do not have all these opportunities as others have work as a collective more and unemotional what happens with that group we decided then we decided to we decided to we decided to renounce to all mechanisms which for us are not useful anymore this is an element of we renounced to the hegemonic thing everything we now have to be presented in a sort of Chinese theater we go to any space in Italy mostly there's a hegemonic in britain dramaturgy we do a different one it is the juvenile rebellion but it's our search as a group which as such owes its name to the contribution we could to a student to become a fund in the group to make a vaca in spanish means to to get us some money to get money for organizing something for an event so and that's what is our foundation that's how the group started when we renounced all these things I will speak quickly about the experience of the group but then you get a bit to the story of our market and how is the experience as a stable group but when we when you renounce you are facing two ways to stop doing theater because it's not feasible financially, economically socially sometimes even in your families you have to start creating your own structures your own structure with your own structure you are theatrical thinking when you think from the creative you question your social position political position it's related to your activity these things are related you don't realize it at that moment what happens then we renounce absolutely after some years of having been waiting to laboratory to know each other and in renouncing we became to a point where all the renounces come together and we did emblematic play and this play is given somewhere right on top of a house of five people watching it without production and by decision and curiously at that time I spoke to our actresses and actresses I told them well this place is so specific this place on top of a house makes it go shit and this is where the experience will stay perhaps it might be a play which goes out to the world and I think this is the point where the analysis comes in why do these things happen why all of a sudden you do a whole design because they have to do it a whole design a whole logistics political production logistics which in all sense means to try to get to the world and to some extent they don't access the world they don't make it if you do have good political connections you will make and a group which doesn't have anything of that which has been asked and which only has no audience finally ends up getting to the world this is he is my question what happens it would be absurd to say because we are so brilliant it has much more to do with doles of big love to be at the correct time at the correct place with the correct people with the right people and I think it has to do also with the idea that the more local things become universal so you realize it consequence you really understand that speaking from your own eyes from the internal things from your personal shit that sort of kind of people love that Europe is the center of the distribution of cultural information of the world or if Europe says it's okay it will get to the world yes, especially here in Latin America if you go out from your country and Europe says that's okay you come back to your country and they say yes it's okay before they wouldn't and that's a way you have to live it inconscientely there's a giant desire to show your work in all the possible world in every other context there's a necessity to feel internationally but it has to do because you are looking for an audience because in your country you don't have any real impact now which is the real impact it's always been the same to dialogue about to put our realities to dialogue but if you don't manage in no way that these realities come to your context that people see it then you do something wrong or something wrong in the context something doesn't work in a context so okay so automatically my friend is gone automatically you you already entered the system of free market you are part of the system where culture is the product where the cultural product has to have an interest where the cultural product has to be attractive not only for you but for the programmers for the governments who finance 90% of cultural issues in the world very few private financing unfortunately and oh yes to end I remember a sentence teacher told me Ricardo Diaz his name is Ricardo Diaz he was in Yugoslavia then years ago he studied there and as a student I told him I want to go out I want to show my work to the world it's good to go out it's good to get out to see, to realize that everything is just the same but you have to go out to realize that so I would stop my reflection a bit here about the Latin American product thank you Damian and other interesting the question of the paradox that I have to talk about and finally close this first part of this conversation Hector hello listen well listen well I'm going to read I'm going to read 6 minutes only 6 minutes I'm going to try to also from 10 years I want to start my exhibition and I want to retake it from a very long discussion on social sciences epistemology and science the idea is to discuss the use of discriminatory categories of activities that we use frequently to understand or to classify or identifies us as Latin Americans the Peruvian Antonio Cornejo Polar used to say that the current use of neto-mini takes us to confusion in such a way that is what the center talk about theater and other ways of this course a method so trans-cultural heterogeneous or hybrid each of them of these labels summarizes an interpretation field where we have systemic things not necessarily coincident and that make of all characterization a forced attempt of synthesis and deproblematization that from the base to all the approach to the production of this course is at the risk of being resisted to a categorized dominion and I'm going to talk about theater practices in terms of frontiers as the space for sending and resenting discussion by understanding the idea of frontiers something that precisely do not separate on the limit I conceive the idea of social theater or social theater and constant movement as the ideologies are not systems the idea of mark and jeno refuting is at the safe nor the performance has got a determined space regardless the desire more or less declared by those who represent the center or in for guessing for the pedicities let's take two examples understanding of systems of representations on the one hand we have the production of you as canon and to the other from Argentina in the last decades I'm talking about Mauricio Cartoon and Daniel Veronesi I know that all attempt of this is vain but as my minutes are short I want to insinuate a couple of programs associated to the field of theatrical production we can think that although in one of them memory is a resource to rebuild precisely this map of making the Peruvian territory heterogeneous field both at the level of a base and at the level of the schools in the other one we have in the other one it is also an exercise of memory a biographical and from the neighborhood memory in the context of Cartoon and very close to the revision of what the realism is in Veronesi in which as a formal exercise it is the response to a research that wants to answer the sense of realistic acting or performance in the context of crisis which is in Buenos Aires in the 90's that was projected in Chajol and Veronian as well in the last decade in the historical history of Latin America there is no such a thing in Latin America something to be done yet before of the saying some kind of of readings we have to see where these courses are seeing where the canon is formed and the forces fighting to establish criteria and system to validate this canon Chile might be an example and this festival might be an example to understand the difficulties of this problem with a very diffuse scene to the metropolitan expressions and to organizations that even controls the structure of the feelings of the audiences it is very difficult to conciliate these ideas and organizations to control the feelings it is very difficult to have the idea of heterogeneity when those metropolitan senses are the ones that legitimate and validate the ways that the criticism allows them to come into a pattern of method without frontiers the symbiotic frontiers and the frontier developed by anthropology it is a continuum we come from the nucleus to the periphery and from the periphery to the center of the score it is an idea that we can read in complexity with the category of frontier posed by Mark or Jay the frontier is not a barrier but a part as it shows the presence of the other and the possibility of gathering or meeting with him close of sight Estabros degrade things the city as a spacer of frontiers where we have the possibility of creating this frontier and the theater is the art of becoming the other the interesting thing is that we can read the phenomenon of theater in terms of which are much more friendly what would be then a frontier according to these references I believe that at least the categories which are coherent with the framework of descriptions where these are the frontier is a way of passing through and a way of understanding the American theater is given by the presence in our country of a very strong mobility that changes the neighborhoods and the center of the cities and it creates between these spaces an interesting place is what we saw last year a place which was called Trabajo Suscio directed by Marcos Guzmán where the passage from an Asian character became a white character so this talk about me is the other and this is a motto that a believer says you are in a place with a center of the other at least for a moment the idea of frontier without frontier I believe that's the motto proposed by FITAM is very very open towards our own reading as we are going the idea of saying what Latin American it is thinking of the frontier in a naturalized way is that in no university can be accepted as it is not accepted thinking that the canon or the canonized theaters by the system of elections it could be the only miserable a place to understand the different if we understand the world without frontier understanding epiphany the believer said living together all the countries all together we have to be responsible of the difficulty of naming or giving identity to the things doomed to obsolescence the expression of as syncretism should open new ways to understand the articulating ways in which we see where the identities are in reciprocity so this makes it absolutely necessary the way of opening the discussion on the way gives sense to the canon Latin American theater so I believe that the notion of heterogeneity is valid because many other ways and the system of production of this a scene like the Latin American one is heterogeneous from the Antilles to the Patagonia from Valparaiso to Bahia in Brazil and as we affirm to all attempt to unify clashes towards these multi ways and all synthesis tends to be consummating and this is the way symptoms of a system of election that do the periphery to open the space for the pattern of the Coa thank you very much Hector we have three different chairs three conferences universes in the idea of imagination and the ambiguity and the ambiguity of the construction of the definitive plans which is acceptable to some as on the other hand to imagine that this otherness has always been a standard of frontier heterogeneous otherness and it finds every kind of standardization of canonization and finally this experience of an artist who is currently the product of today in the case of the theater the problem of the individual collectors basically the market is a eyelid ofANE which is of an in the open the first to ask for So, whoever would like to start in this discussion. There we go. They are going to hand around the microphone, so. Hi, my name is Gerardo Salinas. I'm a playwright in Gavius. It's a theater in Belgium, and I do have an answer and a question to Claudia. Well, to some extent, to the three. The first and is what look, what, what, once Europe to find when they go to Latin American. Part of the dialectics in the, the colonize from the position of Latin American has to do with fiction of the white Europe, which is a fiction because in, at this moment in all the more relevant urban context the boomerang of mestissage and colonialism is landing heavily with, we do have now more sort of, we have three representatives of Belgium, Daniel Cordoba, Chilean, my self, and Argentinian born. And so other nationalities in Europe are building this current Europe. What do I want to find when I look for Latin America? Do I look for allies for anti-colonization, for cultural colonization of the arts of the world? What am I looking for outside Europe? My question is what is Latin America searching when it goes as it. It still maintains a fiction of white Europe. At this moment I think that the works, the urgent works to do, or we can see mestissage, is great as an artist's distribution of the economy of arts in Belgium, which is a center, a very strong center for contemporaneous art is in a crisis because of audiences in itself. And at this moment it's a kind of search. We are searching for a new theater or new art which could represent Europe, which today is the world it is. And that's why it is my question. What do you look for when you go to Europe? Well, thank you. I completely agree with this fiction of white Europe and lots of our Latin American efforts to question this colonial enterprise which is this euro-centrism which stood in this as this sensitive sort of confusion between Europe and euro-centrism. I referred to the euro-centrism and this is still existence and scope is effective. It's not a fiction. Actually in this image of white Europe it's part of a discussion which the world of the arts is being carried out and more than trying to see what else I could incorporate into this dialogue which I share with you. The important thing to resolve here is, I always said, but I've been spending so many years that I've realized that what's hard to achieve is not to see how difficult it is to get to the movement, but to be able to build bridges and agreements. Political sphere, there's the possibility to figure out this kind of discussion. Interesting, really. Nobody's got the emotional resolve. We have been discussing for decades how to name it, how can we reflect this heterogeneous with the reality of our as a paratism. I'm interested in this exercise and this exercise is also done in Europe precisely because of all the heterogeneous of the European continent and for its own internal colonization. I've learned a lot from what I've learned about writing of indigenous authors. For example, it's not rare in the course of political and indigenous construction and national autonomy that many of those references have to do with the colonization of Europe. Lots of these reference points have to do with the fast people. So it's interesting to see that in this exercise, Europe needs also to be able to rename itself and reach itself and not just this. Brown Europe or this Afro-European these are all worlds, though never said if in Latin America, if in Latin America, can we speak in Latin America from Indo-America? I don't think so. Because you only speak from our children from the PowerPoint in which we speak of the Ayala, which means to name the continent. This is incompletely true. I'm probably not asking you to leave to try to come out because I think that's the challenge because that's for a metropolis. Metropolis and this is trying to center the ideas just to think as a possible union. A political union. I'm going to lose the horizon. I think that's a problem. That's one idea I find problematic. Let America maintain this fiction of white Europe and I would say yes to this. That's a bit dangerous. It's a bit dangerous. Let Americans look for validation. They look for validation. That's true. We are not discussing this. We are discussing the hierarchy. We are discussing the hierarchy. We are discussing our world. We don't have the chance to resolve it. And then there's the heterogeneity. Who is looking for validation? Who is looking for validation? All the elites in other countries are looking for validation and other social actors are looking for validation. Without the opportunity to look for another white life. And this requires a problematic transition and the relationship to colonize and to colonize and to colonize and to colonize. But that's also a discussion of how this relationship can be an integral one to impossible. It's impossible to stay outside the market. It's not an issue of demonizing the market. I know you've been talking about this. It's not an issue of demonizing the market. It's not an issue of demonizing the market. I know that the market didn't come to the world of capitalism. Capitalism is the capitalist market. This is another historical structure. And you're saying that responsibilities never are a sign in our challenge to continue without traditionally discussing this continent. To discuss this bombs and bombs in our country where we have a malevolence and don't look for validation and not step to this mind that there's a risk of division so that we are asked for our heterogeneity and to threaten us in something out of romance. We are always seen as mafia corruption and that doesn't exist in Europe. Chile, so often with that time, Chile's got a colonial history which we haven't seen in the last 20, 30 years of the pop-spaces because of our intellectuals showing you that our problem is the capitalism. But where is the colonialism and the indigenous people where the colonialism which now explodes in our faces? So we have to recognize ourselves also in this problematic sense. So in this sense thank you for coming that in fact Europe is a fiction that dominates this idea of white Europe I think a learning is to identify the terms and we have to identify tools to do this and mix up Europe with Occidentalism and Eurocentrism in Europe isn't it? I was inside the sense of a black power which is on the floor and colonial writing is white. But it takes up colonialism as not Europe. So colonialism is Europe's illness. My name is Kion. I am a Chilean playwright. I work in the United States although I'm from Chile. My question is very general for all of you to start with understanding that all the issues discussed by Claudia are very open in the United States as well. We're discussing that in social justice and how to talk about equality and equity with people which are not white and this incorporates the Asians, the black ones, the lesbians or the disabled. And within this context well there is this kind of sovereignty of the white in the United States which is quite discussed today. And this kind of supremacy is different from imperialism that is discussed in this panel. And imperialism, the American imperialism, the Eurocentrism of our aesthetics as theatre people is different because as artists we look for acceptance and recognition of these European aesthetics but in the Chilean context I believe that different from other countries as the second language is an indigenous one in Chile specifically the second language after Spanish is English. So within this context the relationship that we have as Chilean artists with the hegemony of American neoliberalism is different from these European aesthetics that as artists we have as a tradition we just want to present this an idea to see what do you think about that. I saw your faces and apparently you are quite boring. No, not that much. It's a sister time, it's a nap time. I believe that there are quite diverse things that are being presented here that could be part of a conversation that I imagine that you will continue to do or maybe you are going to continue to do or when you go to the shopping mall or whatever you do and when you are leaving this place you will continue discussing the big problem that I have to do fundamentally and this talk on to the label of this festival which is a discussion of different categories of such particular circumstances although they seem to be quite exclusively Latin America that are global in nature and those are problems that can make us blow the idea of globalization, blow it down as a unifying idea of things to be concluded that even we, the analysts and the creators and artists in general we should pay attention to understand the reality of the production theatrical production in a less categorizing or standardizing way like maybe it's just kind of a selection the problems can be local but also global as the big contemporary issue is the mobility, is migration is the place where some poor countries look and come closer to the material world and this is a very interesting what a friend said that it is a Korean or Chilean or North American but that's a challenge because we can say that it is a a disgustic idea and I think this is a plastic idea if this is a term that allows you to talk and to think at some time so this happens in Canada regardless of your thinking but it's the idea of thinking in two languages at the same time because the Latin American country that do it always in long ways is Paraguay they have two languages Guarani and Spanish we are not but I would like to give my opinion on the place of the culture and the market we shouldn't demonize the existence of a market because if you said as well all artists that wants to be recognized as well and recognition sometimes but we see through through some rejection for example you reject something that you come to the logic of the market to be recognized and obviously you have to train of certain principles and to me it's not a perverse problem to be avoided I believe that the scene or this kind of context should allow the discussion of these things and realizing that you construct fictions as the same way as Latin America does when we create a space for interpretation we are making fiction or our republics is fiction it does not mean that we do not exist as Latin America because we have an identity but this identity as well as Claudia said at the very beginning is an identity which is permanently in revision so it is not static it is not rigid it is modifiable and Santiago de Chile and Chile in general as many other Latin American countries they have been forced to to modify their places for the different places and if this happens to a theater obviously visual arts literature as well as other industries the problems of the cultural industry the problem is that the cultural industry can house different systems of production of this course and not only having one system of production which is legitimized per se we have to understand that the shows as all anthologies of selections it is difficult to choose a selection done by group of persons and they have an ideology and I feel that I believe that went beyond thank you very much for the panel and I'm a North American the programs which finances plays dances from Latin America in the US and every day I speak with programmers from all the countries I don't know whether this has to do with language or whatever or lack of studies people seem to have an idea of Latin America as if it was very monolithical and I would like to hear comments of the panel to this subject as to migration in the United States this is a very important subject very relevant subject and the programmers today are thinking a lot of that but it is a very personal subject every country's got its history it's a unique situation and I would like to hear your thoughts on that I think that the subject of migration is the hot subject of the world right now it's not only a subject in the United States and it is a subject in the rich countries to get the conditions to structure the conditions for that happening now so the interesting thing here is I understand what you say but the monolithical thing I know there is a kind of political or sense of the violence in Latin America but it's also not but this doesn't happen in every area especially for me in the theater this does not happen I think that in the theater to do have the development of very specific thinking which is getting more specific ideas about Latin America as a perpetual but this is an exhibition of life and I think this is one of the artistic successes that theater has and I'm going to define a specific identity about being the danger I see is that's one of the things not many people but I know theater groups even those who travel in the United States travel to the United States we are neighbors where we are right next to you but still it's a problem for Mexico but for everybody they don't access but it's also been around the festivals where I think some of the groups American groups don't get there there's a lot of internal market and the United States has to do with a sort of political or artistic complacency and that market is sufficient to speak about the political issues which they are interested in but in some cases it's something that happens in countries like Germany where the issue of immigration is hot and where people in Germany say you speak about immigration and you'll have theater and curiously you will have theater and from the 15 selected players the journey of them where about migration this is not something America speaks more about the phenomenon of social politics that concerns the evaluation of the class in itself and that implies immigration and for me this is fundamental I think there is an absolute absolute identity I couldn't speak about the Latin American identity in the theater but I had progress and I think it's only to let an American is now present on the festivals of the world but I think what I think is that the incapacity of reading the subjects from where the country approaches them and not posing them as the country who consumes them well unfortunately we have to close down on the last centimums and it's quite interesting because it's a crossing between those who produce and those who see what is being produced to take it from where else theater is intimately cultural theater in a difference to visual arts I might be wrong it seems to be a very localized art and that's why I think that this kind of discussion are not secondary discussions they are right in the center of the work you realize this is only the starting point to be a little activator of neuronal movements of body and the heart right now and the heat affects us all and everywhere so I would like to thank you for the activities during the week and I think that's why Jose is going to close the panel first of all thank you to everybody thank you for your words for your thoughts to share them with us I would like to inform you that tomorrow at 10 o'clock in the morning in the hotel Crown Plus thank you