 So we're out here in San Francisco in the Bay Area at the third annual social capital markets convening and conference also known as SOCAP 11 and This interview is a special one because I'm sitting here with Penelope Douglas Who is the senior executive and president of the board for SOCAP as well as Hubsoma and formerly was the co-founder and CEO of Pacific Venture Pacific Community Ventures. Pacific Community Ventures, that's right Well Penelope First I just want to say that what you've done with SOCAP is pretty Unbelievable. Thank you. You know, I mean where you started three years ago and where it's gone today It's been leaps and bounds in terms of the attendance of the conversations the growth of the market And what I'm most curious about of course is where do you think this is going? Where is it all going? Here's into the crystal ball. Yeah. Well, you know, I can't answer that question simply I think we're gonna we're probably gonna talk about that quite a bit Both ourselves, but every one of us who's here, you know over the next year as we get ready for the next SOCAP But what I think is really happening now is that the conversation is starting to get to the difficult part You know, it's it's the part that nobody really wants to talk about but that is essential for really turning this from a movement into the most important part of our capital for sustainable society and I think those painful conversations are around power How do we get power and powerful voices into the hands of those who aren't the money hands? So that the conversation starts to really change. That's one place where I think I see the market going I think the other thing that I see is that there's a genuine desire for more collaboration We're seeing more incentive more motivation, whether it's from corporations the government Individuals to really try to figure out how to collaborate the painful part of that part of the conversation is that collaboration as you know And as I know is a lot harder Then it's that it looks that it sounds It's fun, but it's tough. Yeah. Yeah room. Yeah, absolutely So so those pain points where it's starting to get more difficult Is that because it's getting more disciplined because more people are watching what's happening here? Or where where is that? Yeah, I think part of the pain comes from the fact that we've got to recognize that we have a lot more capacity building to do the other part of it is that There is a power problem and there's a struggle to Both invite into the room those who should be part of that conversation about power when it comes to social capital markets But there's also a kind of avoidance of having those people in the room And so that's the other place where I think the pain comes from where do you see in terms of the the capacity side? Yeah, to start there We're the we're the biggest gaps right now in your mind one of the big gaps is in the capacity of social entrepreneurs I think it's very hard for young or any social entrepreneur Today to really know how to build a long lasting sustainable company, but I think technology as a means of accessibility and Scale is where we're going to see a lot of great business models for social enterprise And the other place where I think we're going to see a lot is in sort of Supply chains, you know where we can sort of see great solutions to supply chains. Those aren't necessarily going to be Huge revenue a huge profit producing companies But they're going to be really important infrastructure Companies in the social capital movement and the social capital arena, and I think that they will be sustainable So the final question is What is it that you're working on are talking about now where people think you're crazy think you're naive yeah Well one of it one of the one of the conversations that I'm having now more and more which I don't know if people think I'm crazy But they definitely think that I'm once again, you know taking on you know the toughest job is is is how we started this conversation It's it's how you bring that painful question into the room about shifting the power base We're balancing the power base so that we we find that the powerful voices in the room aren't exclusively those with the money I really feel so strongly about that as a key to unlocking the scaling potential of a sustainable capital for a sustainable planet That I'm really trying to figure out how to take that on that's probably what I'm thinking about and talking about right now That's causing some of my closest friends to kind of shake their heads and say oh god here goes Penelope again You know taking on something tough. It's almost you know you're going from global movement It sounds like that's pretty localized a lot of that well It's not so much. I think it's actually a global question It's it's it happens to be a serious problem in the US I think it's incumbent on us here domestically to lead some of the solutions to at least having those conversations Well, Penelope, I wish we could have this conversation so much longer. Thank you so much for spending time You