 For mathematics education to be relevant in the 21st century, it must offer an integrated, comprehensive, and extensive view of the world. As an alternative to the fragmented systems nowadays, quantitative reasoning should enable learners to think broadly and across disciplines. Viewing math from a multiple perspective could help learners overcome their fear of what they may have wrongly perceived as a difficult and unnatural pursuit. From the mighty pen of our poet Francisco Balthasar, Flow the Lines, natarok ang laling ng filosofia, aking natupunan ang astrologia, na tantong malinis at katakataka ang mayamang dunong ng matematica. What is it in mathematics that appealed to the sense of wonder of this brilliant poet? Dr. Keith Devlin, in his book The Math Gene, argues that math is not just about numbers, it is about life, it is about the world in which you live, it is about ideas, and far from being dull and sterile, it is full of creativity, it is the science of patterns. Hmm, come to think about it. If you look at the famous branches of mathematics, logic is the study of patterns of reasoning. Arithmetic is the study of the patterns of numbers. In algebra, we investigate the patterns of finding unknown quantities. In geometry, we examine the patterns of size and shape. In trigonometry, we study the patterns of triangles and their parts. In calculus, we investigate the patterns of quantities that change. And in statistics, we study patterns of analyzing data. Now, let's look at some other areas, the non-quantitative areas, seemingly, that involve patterns. And we have invited some artist friends to help us unravel the math in the arts. It's hard to believe I'm going to discuss math and music with Mr. Garry Granada because I think I'm an ardent fan. I'm the number one fan. So Garry is a noted composer, lyricist, engineer, designer, mathematician in his own way, philosopher, storyteller. Good morning, Garry. Good morning. So tell us about the math inside music. Okay, my field is music in particular writing songs and the facilities of mathematics. I would say play an indispensable role in what I do in my field of work. For example, at its most basic, the fundamental idea of location, such as your three feet across the table to my left or to my right, is very basic in music. If I sing a song for example, I'll tell you after three. One, two, three. Without such a facility, it would be impossible to agree. And when and where does anyone come in to the equation as it were? In terms of time and at the same time, in the same way, in terms of notation. If you sing Angba, Yanco, it's a location from a higher place to a lower place. Angba, Yanco, Pilipinas. So there's movement. There's movement you need to locate all these things. At the same time, the idea of duration, how long does an event happen? Does it happen in two bars? In one second, in 14 seconds, is basically fundamental language in music. So when you say Angba, Yanco, it's the same length, duration. Pilip, and then when you come to the pinas, the duration changes. Pinas, it gets longer. So I'm a musical illiterate and precisely and especially because I'm a music, I can't read music. That's where the math comes in very handy. I can drive, I can ride in a bus and continue writing because I can just imagine numbers in my mind. This is the note. This is how it should sound. So it's that precise? It is quite precise. It's very, very precise. Not just the location and duration. Even the, shall we say, the expression itself. Whether it's loud or soft, there's a mathematical equivalence to it, like decibels. Like when you say, you know, one decibel. It's national ball. Oh, especially when you have softwares, freewares that everybody can use. And it's very good. Well, on one hand, it puts a lot of decisions out of job. But on the other hand, because of the digital. Yeah, because of the facility. But at the same time, on the other hand, it democratizes the facility of music. So you don't actually have to go to a music school to do music. You can just download and app. Oh, while I was talking about decibels, for example, when you say one decibel and you say relative to this point, ten decibels is ten times louder than one decibel. You can remember that. And because it's an exponential function, twenty decibels is actually one hundred times louder than one decibel. So if you're aware of that, then you can manipulate the facilities better. But of course in the end, you trust your ears. What is loud to you may be soft to me, what is soft to me may be loud to you. So it's relative. But where do the patterns come in? The patterns, I suspect that because our minds store up information. If you introduce patterns into the mix, it's easier for our consciousness to remember your patterns. That's precisely why we remember things that rhyme rather than things that don't. So when you write lyrics, I have nothing against free verse and all kinds of forms of expressions. But as far as song writing is concerned, it is very important that you rhyme the lines because that's how your brain remembers better the thing that you're saying. Because they sound the same. The associative properties, you associate this word with another word and that's why I remember it better. Not just the loudness and softness. Even the texture, the quality or what we call the equalization of frequencies. When you talk for example, you cover a range of frequencies. Human voice probably is between 0.5 to 1.5. That's interesting because they say that human beings are pattern-seeking creatures. And we see it even in our reading patterns in the indigenous textiles. They keep repeating the triangles, nested squares, circles in fractal formations. That's a political principle actually. When politicians lie all the time, you remember the righteous truth after a while. So it's important that you repeat things. Is that the reason why you have the refrain? And especially hooky refrain easier to remember. And easier to remember equals better chances of surviving. It's very evolutionary. The most charming melodies get to survive. The fittest of melodies get to survive. As opposed to just random sounds. And it's actually very true with trends. It doesn't happen in terms of a few months like we imagine it to be. What's the trend today? No, we still sing Hardly Herald Angels Sing. Which was written centuries ago. And it's because the melody is so compelling that it survived in an evolutionary manner through the ages. And that's why it's a little difficult to explain. I think that's one area where fuzzy logic comes in. But going back to the precision of describing expression. You can actually describe a sound through precise frequencies. If I say it's the same note, it's the same note. But it's a different sound because I'm the paper of the properties. My low frequencies. Or I can probably muffle the high frequencies. It's the same note. Probably the same duration. But that precise measurement of mathematical measurement of frequencies we use all the time. I cannot imagine a musician today or even then who has no appreciation for frequency distribution. When you assign for instance a voice, bass, alto, tenor, soprano, they are at its optimal use at certain ranges of notes. You can ask a soprano to sing bass and vice versa. It's possible but it's not optimal. Optimization is a very compelling mathematical principle. I'm glad you mentioned that because my field is in operational research. We deal with optimization. We have a journal in operations research. One of the most interesting articles or paper that I read is about OR, operations research and music. So what's the logic in all of this? Especially when you get into progression. It is also a very mathematical concept. You don't progress from one thing to another without a logic to it because you have to have something to step on before you. So when we do progressions, we define them in precise numbers too. Like we say C7, C6, D9, G13 or something. And those numbers have characteristics that help out in the progression of events so that the effect on the human consciousness, it sounds so pleasant or it sounds disturbing or it sounds sad or it sounds uplifting because precisely of the texture of those progressions. Sometimes you don't even have to understand how it happens but it affects people subconsciously perhaps. And it creates the same effect. When you stand up to sing Lupang Hinyirang, it creates even without words a certain sentiment that unifies people. That's one function that can also be mathematically expressed. I think of how many people get to relate. The concept of sets, subsets and all things. When we talk about who's your audience, I was thinking of talking to young people, the kind, the textures that you use, even the instruments that you put in there, the beat, the groove, which are very, very mathematical in terms of bass. Like the rhythm. You can use exactly the same song and I can sing Mangbayanko in reggae or in jazz or in pop or in standard song depending on the subset of the population that I'm trying to reach out to or communicate to. I have a naging suspicion that combinatorics is very much a part of the music, the county and the permutations. Like when you put the lyrics into it, the best words in the best order. So that's precisely combinatorics. We have on two accounts. We have a concept of the principle of counter points. You can chop it into two actually. It's a counter puntal. It's a dialectics of melodies which is a very mathematical concept as well. It comes in there. If there's a conversation between melodic concepts, the piece becomes more alive of course because there's a dialogue going on and it happens all the time. It's a dialogue between two counter puntal themes. So yeah, the combinatorics, the most basic of course would be the choral combinatorics soprano, alto, tenon bass, even more. Or the band and the singer. The objective is to optimize the impact of the combinations as I would imagine industrial engineers and operations researchers would do in their fields. Sometimes we just delete portions because it's unnecessary. This is to elaborate and the net effect is too small or even detrimental to the whole piece or add one or two small things in it that make it a little more effective. I would think that I would suppose combinatorics in that sense. I think that's the goal of optimization to make things more efficient, eliminate redundancies. But we do that all the time. And especially in the more commercial world like when you write jingles for example, you're given a small window of time, 30 seconds. You say everything in 30 seconds. So that's, oh you have to be ma... and it is not 29 seconds, it's not 28 seconds, it's 30 seconds. That's how precise a piece can get. So what advice would you give to learners or lifelong learners regarding the study of math and its connections with music? I think it happens in anything that you do. You deal with quantities all the time. So if you can, it's always better to talk in terms of verifiable quantities because you can understand each other better. If I tell you, okay, let's meet here that in the morning it's too broad. If I just tell you okay, let's jump musically, it's too broad. And so that's why it doesn't sound as good all the time. But if you have a plan, I think that would be my first advice, make a plan. Always make a plan. You can't just come up with a piece in 20 minutes because you want to write and finish it now. It takes me six months, sometimes even years to finish a piece. And it requires planning. Discipline. Planning. How do I approach it? Maybe I invest this part in this. Well, if you're writing lyrics as well with this message, reading to this and to that. And by creating a plan, if you're working together, and it's even better, you can talk to your mates, you know, maybe we should. So it's most basic. I don't think society can prosper so I do mention that very because matematical programming in matematical programming means planning. It's not really computer programming. It's really planning, formulating a model. Our politics, for example, besides because it's not planned, you have a new president, you have a new set of implementers. Co-terminus we do every day. So there's really no long-term plan and you cannot accomplish anything without a long-term plan. So that's, I know there are geniuses everywhere but I seriously doubt that music can be created in a few minutes and good writing can be created. Maybe we can finish a piece in 20 minutes and probably it will be forgotten in the next 20 minutes too. Yeah, and in the same way that matematical thinking cannot be developed in one city. No, it took a while, a whole lifetime practically to figure out the Fermat theory. Yes, theory. So from special relativity to general relativity took Einstein 18 years I think to figure out. You cannot do even God took him seven days to create something as simple as the universe. So in matematical thinking you don't just do music. You have to do a lot of logical thinking. And of course, mathematics is synonym, and music is very, very mathematical in fact. Work together is a good principle. You cannot stand alone musically. Yeah, there are individual artists but most of us focus on a particular area writing, singing, playing. Those are very different disciplines. So you need to in order to optimize the potentials of everybody you need to work, learn to work together. You have a word of this day, collaboration. Collaboration. That's a very... That's 21st century skill for me. So you know, you don't collaborate, you perish. So that's... You work together, learn to work together. That's probably why a lot of things in our society don't seem to function well because we have a tendency to be too contentious about too many things. Or if we try to try to work together. Yeah, but music will make us fall hard. I hope so. Thank you, Gary. We have moved from to music, to politics and operations research. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Okay, good morning, Jeremy. Good morning, Hazel. Good morning. Okay, I am privileged to be discussing math and dance with you. Hazel is a graduate of Philippine High School for the Arts. She trained in dance. Then she was given a scholarship from the Cultural Center of the Philippines and the Department of Foreign Affairs to pursue her Bachelor of Arts in Communication Arts. Major in Speech Fall or from dancing to speech. And then she joined the teaching staff of the UP Rural High School. She is the advisor and the choreographer of the UP Rural High School til pinyan at dance. And then, of course, we have Jeremy here who finished his Bachelor of Arts in Theater Arts in UP Dilliman. And then he went into and he trained in Indonesia. Yes, ma'am. What's the Japanese for dance? But he also do the no Japanese dance. Jeremy has performed and choreographed more than 52 shows and counting. He is with the faculty of the Department of Humanities UP Los Daniels. Okay, let's come to the geometry of dance. Dance will lead geometry in motion. Yes, I think dance I always believe that as a dancer there's always relationship in dance with mathematics in relation for dance because dance has to communicate before you be able to understood and dance must follow its variables like it needs to follow this shape and then the most important variable for us dancers to be trained or to be taught is that we must understand the concept of the center. Center. Okay, because that is very important in math as well when we do the Cartesian plane we have to find the center when we do the circle the set of points distant from the center and all the other shapes like ellipses and hyperbolas, the cone shapes and how do you do that in dance for example how do you maintain or how do you find your center Alright, so Hazel will give us a demonstration on finding our center for people for us dancers to get our balance Hazel will demonstrate so in learning pop dance we usually start with the fundamental dance position so we start with the first position the second third fourth fifth and then you go back to first until the other side second third fourth fifth and then back to first you were not just counting you were exhibiting symmetry so when we do the equations like in math we have an equal sign and then you have the left hand side of the equation and the right hand side which sort of balances things everything you do on the right side you do to the others and that's what you do when you are performing addition property for equality movement are involved and that have their parallels in the world of math I think also the principle of the points in dance because in dance I believe that there are 8 points that we need to cover what are those 8 points I'll give a demonstration to pin point is for us it's one up and then down okay and then forward and then the back and then the diagonal here and then this point down again and then diagonal and up so in counting so we try to give the 8th direction so I demonstrate a while ago so this one, two, three, four you were covering the four quarters of the Cartesian plane journey were you aware of that so we set up a two dimensional coordinate system that's named after the French mathematician and you were trying to cover all of the four four quadrants for us to build the architecture because to be able to design the execution of dance we need to follow at the same time the different levels so we have the high middle and low can you show that to us we do na pangalain what we demonstrated earlier so you begin with your center the center of your body then for example middle and then maybe you go to the lower level high level and then can also jump at the movement the movement is somehow maintained in all the levels there is a similarity some sense of invariance because when we do graffing in math of a function we can either put it in the center or we can shift it upwards or we can move it downwards but there should always be a certain flow when you move it upwards it's still flowing and whether you put it downwards or you shift it downwards it's still flowing that's great what about the range in math we talk of functions we have the domains you work with the points and the lines so the movement is a function of those variables and then now we also talk of the function so how do you define the range in math so define the range in math and think we use the body to cover the space in a sweet travel around the space in a given time for example when we do the halalai two dancers through variables are situated in a different points orientation each dancer must have its own direction to cover its space but moving in a similar direction or they can also contrast it or differentiate their direction so for example you can move the circularity is the range and then not only expanding our range but we can also shrink it from expanding to contract so I think the terminology that we use in dance is fun so that makes you dancers flexible in a sense because if you are moving into a big theater you have to enlarge your range but if you are limited to this space then you have to contract so it's like that so it's like vectors being multiplied, passively or negatively so how about in an isolated hand movement for example how do you demonstrate range let's say in the kumintang kumintang is a basic movement in folk dance we use it in different dances may be from the Visayan region or from Luzon suppose ilok so we usually show the difference in the execution of kumintang when we have ilok ilokang dance you execute the kumintang this way we have the fingers in a closed space position very limited range does that describe the plurality? probably because culture is reflected in one group through their dances so probably because of ilok ilokang they are very creative but when you do it in the Visayas they are very they are described as people who are very happy always in celebration so there are bigger kumintang in bigger kumintang usually done when jumping the exuberance of the Visayas so that's just the movement you can see the difference kumintang that is small in range that is bigger that's what we do when we want a basic sign function is f of x equals sin x so it would range from minus 1 to 1 but if I multiply it the amplitude becomes 2 oh you said that nice what about the floor patterns or the space patterns like you do geometric shapes with your body yes floor patterns so actually we start from the movement of the food so it depends on the dance you are executing so for example in a modern concept of dance of course in a modern modern dance we have floor patterns in the circularity and then this one this feet when we move it at the back it leads you to another location, a direction so from here then here are you pivoting? are you doing pivoting? the other execution, pointing so the one that I did a while ago is circularity and then from point diagonal and then point again and then combination because in dance we need to exhibit true combinations of patterns so circularity point point and P1 floor patterns can also use other way not only the food but also dance so to give you more what's this? propulsion different but you don't just define movement with your body sometimes the props also do the thing to expand your range your range for example so if you have a manton for example if this is a manton dance you can expand your range by manipulating the props so instead of just using my arms I use the prop as an extension of my body and the props also kind of defining some other shapes so to enhance the movement you also make use of angles because when I'm watching a dance performance what appeals to me would be the precision in the angles how important is that to you as a dancer the angles angles are very important for us dancers to really define the form of the body in a group or in a stage lit by lights it's important to use the angles to define the silhouette of the dancers it's the form of the dancers so it's very important for us to really focus not only focus but to work on the angles that's very precise and also when you're working with angles you also define different shapes not only angular shapes but circular shapes or different types of shapes that you all form through angles is that true also for other other cultures like in Indonesia are the angles very can you show us a typical Indonesian movement typical Indonesian movement so for example I will use my back if you can see there are some ready angular movements here shapes this is the first execution for the Indonesian dance Japanese so there's an angle here also it's not 90 degrees it's less than it's less than and then when the shape to other direction close the same level same angular shape and then when I do another movement it goes up it changes angular movement and then when I change my direction still my arms forms different angles and then when I use it in traveling the same angular shape that one and then this one it's the same with pangala but as you can see at my posi there's a still angle here pangala is more fluid is it? almost the same and then when I push it my feet are still in in-cut position with angles and then go back to another position angle and here execute the same time what's this? how do you call it? the isolation the isolation of the arms how do you perfect that? how do you perfect? through practice you know that's exactly the same thing with math you cannot do it without practice and it is also very important for dancers to practice with the full length mirror so that you can really see the angles the lines that's what they tell a declamation contestance also so it's a matter of communicating and then practicing in front of all the dancers okay, can you there's this because I'm a volunteer for international students I'm fascinated with this balinese dance about the candles rotating and then I said there's a similar dance in the Philippines where we do that we have to get the dancers out of that entanglement problem so can you demonstrate that to us call it binasuan, right? actually, binasuan is from Pangasinan it's supposed to be tuba yes let's just make do with the juice so you feel the drinking glass with tuba and then during their free time they balance the glasses and the top of their palms and for the girls for the girls they do this hand okay, so that's 360 plus another 360 you know, I used to think when I was a child that it's just 360 now that you're doing it I realize it's 720 can you do it again? 720 degrees to get back to the original skill dance the water the juice inside the glass must not spill that's the 360 another 360 that makes it 720 okay you know we have a property in math called the identity element so when you do it you have to go back to the original that's an exact illustration for me thank you Hazel so you think that we really have connections with math are you conscious of it when you're dancing when you're choreographing Jeremy are you conscious of it? my high school teacher is actually a math major really and what will he tell you? that there is always math in dance that we should always be precise in our movements because something might not go well in the formula if one element is not and you're telling a story while you're dancing right? yes yes and that's the same thing people don't realize that when we put up an equation we are actually telling a story so if it is a linear equation or a quadratic equation it tells us something so the quadratic equation for example is shaped like parabola it's opening downwards or upwards and that's how the corporations maximize their profit when they reach the highest point so can you tell us how do you do the jump and reach your highest point? jump jump so you're not just now defining the planar pattern but now you are conquering space and defining gravity somehow just like the ballet dance ok so just to give you a quick again simple demonstration of different jumps ok so we have the simple this is the jump simple jump and then if you want to execute it with more intense of hey feeling or execution in the dance ok first execution is you really need to is the most basic you need to bend to give you a more height give you height in your execution so this is the simple and then to give you a more complex so it goes there and then another one is here so then we turn and then it jumps so those are just simple execution for dance that I use with complex preparation ok or intense preparation with the use of the legs yeah I've seen I've watched the BANWA and you were the choreographer how did you train the dancers for such difficult routines so I did them just the regular scenario actually the simple dance and then you start with the simple one did the simple one and then they were more complex ah I do the same thing in math we do the simple exercises first and then we progress to the more difficult ones eventually you'll jump higher so you can now go to advanced calculus if you know your basic so you really enjoy dancing don't you you do but do you find it really hard I mean is it really hard work and you don't mind the hard work at all if your passion is dancing you will do everything in order to develop your your talent so it is hard work but if you're enjoying it there's nothing that you can do can you get paid for what you enjoy doing and you get to see things what is beauty about in dance and also as a practitioner is it's some like a gadget for us we use our body like sometimes a device that we download or different dances or applications the more that you have applications like in the cell phone that the more you have applications or training in dance the more that you can execute a lot of dances more versatility more versatility so how do you do the process of designing or designing dance yeah because in math they say that it's very abstract and we make the invisible visible so how do you do that in dance usually you start with an inspiration so this inspiration is probably tangible it's something that you can see just like math yes just like math it may be a feeling an emotion that you would want to convey to your audience might be a story that you would want to relate to your audience and from that you feel it from deep inside and you make movements that would relate to what you're trying to convey the emotion will it be slow in order to convey sad emotions when you're happy more movements with the hopping and jumping so it's about the inspiration the emotion yeah Hazel I've seen the Ramayana that you choreograph for UP Rural High School it was fantastic people in the audience they came from the Philippine High School for the arts because UP Rural High is very academic right orientation and now they are very getting into the intuitive side of themselves that was fantastic so it's like a form of stress reliever for the urban games when they're fed up with being academic the math and the science yeah okay but science, math and dance and arts were never really separated in the first place I don't know why we got to separate them so it's about time that we integrate everything so magbuhay kayo and keep on dancing hi vet long time no see I love a Lilly yeah long time no see I see that the guest book is filled big sabihin dami-dami mo na customers oh yeah it's a privilege to be working with vet on a very unique project in the arts and science fusion vet viatris ko owns this place and manages this beautiful place it's called Ginawa Arts Cafe thank you for lending the space to us you're welcome we're happy to have you here and she was trained as an interior designer in yukidiliman but now she's an entrepreneur an artistic entrepreneur okay so we would like to know how much math is involved in your visual arts and your sculpture and the management of business yeah art is involved when I teach when I teach kids because one of our products here is that we teach workshops to kids and adults so I find easier when I teach somebody who has a background on fractions because the way we teach how to sketch is that you learn to look at an object and see what's the proportion of the width and the height so there so that's how the conversation goes and for example you put up a pencil and then you say this is the width is one third of the height and so the person has to translate it to the paper in order to come up with a proportion that doesn't disappoint them when they when they draw and even the young the young children understand that concept yeah that challenge is making young children understand that concept there so when they're in grade school it's easy and they get it and they're excited with that concept but when they're a little younger we need to be more creative in making them understand arts for example like do you think this kitten is bigger than this human and it's how many times how many kittens do you need to make up one human wow that's really massive or the relationships and what else is involved is there pattern involved in in visual arts yes there's pattern desalations that in order to come up with tiles and another way is when we use the color wheel so let me show you this is the color wheel I have to take the details because I need to learn okay okay on our on the third session of basic workshops we start to teach them the color theory because as artists we think that making colors splashes on our canvas comes instinctively but actually it is there is a theory behind it and I think being exposed to you and how you see math in art there's you know there's a pattern and computation to this for example a complimentary which is divided into sectors yes it's divided into 12 parts with all roots from the primary colors red, blue and yellow so from these primary colors you can we always say ang anak nang dalorapulay because you have to find the very middle part which is 50% of this red and 50% of the other one and you are going to mix them? so when you mix them then you find out the new color so usually the kids find out the new color and they are happy about the discovery so for example here 50% of red 50% of yellow turns out orange and then so and then in the middle part 50% of orange and 50% of red is red orange so red orange is already two parts of red and one part of yellow and then in color harmony there's something we call color harmony is how you can come up with the right background for your object for your foreground for example one of Mang Turing's paintings is here it's an orange bouquet of flowers and then he chose aqua green as a background so if you look at the color wheel his his flower theme is here in orange and then aqua is here on the other side of orange that's because aqua will be the right color to bring out orange and if you look at why it's because there's an equal diet of yellow in orange and red and then there's blue here so it's the split complex it's the complimentary now you're exercising logic there because when you said that's because so it's like when you are doing a proof in geometry this is the step and then why it's because of the side angle side thing so I didn't realize you are exercising logic in your painting or in your composition so that's the way you do it based on the yes that's how we explain it to students because when they start the beginners class they feel that they're not an artist so it really helps to be able to break it down for them to see there's logic behind it it gives them a safe so there's hope for me and yeah that's my I really can't draw I really can't paint so maybe you are giving me a glimmer of hope based on that explanation and what else what about when you compose a theme so what goes on in your mind let's say when you did this it's a three that it's not XY alone there is a third dimension there and how did you apply proportion for instance it just has to look right so there's a lot of black around the red because black is a heavy color so we all know that black is a heavy color so there needs to be something that will contrast it and of course when you see a chicken when you want we want to express in this sabong painting that the chicken is fierce or it's lunging forward so the head needs to be outside the plane yun so I choose what things will be outside the plane yeah so whatever makes so much sense then yeah tells a story about the sabong oh great and event I really can't thank you enough for the opportunity of working with you when Glenda came and massacred all of the trees and then the trees are what acacia nara what else centennial acacia centena acacia nara and then I was looking for somebody who could do the giant sumka and you were really heaven sent right you know her from Adam and it has been a great journey after that because of the community art the community spirit that was generated you remember that time when we were doing the sumka and every passerby had a chance to do the wood carving and the kids were not afraid to make mistakes and then we got to know all of the paete artis artisans yeah and what other projects have you been doing aside from our sumka and the buy buying do you remember you didn't know buy buying then but now you suddenly put the buy buying and the circular table and it became a conversation piece everybody wanted to buy it and it's a very good way of promoting our ancient script yeah what about the the big artwork in Tanay? Tanay tell us about the big art in Tanay that was a project now the professors in forestry want used science and art and religion because there's this 400 year old tree in Tanay Rizal what kind of tree? it's a nakashatro so it's it died it's dying towards its 400 year and then the parish priest contacted forestry to try some surgery on the two trees surgery on the tree same way they do here new pea like they put cement in order to fix the cavities so the main goal was to make the two trees live but after six months of surveying one tree live it started to have leaves again but one tree started to show mushrooms and also it's dead it's proclaimed dead and then forestry contacted me because I was with mambogs up in forestry two years ago maybe the woodcarver we were making an eagle there and makeeling statues so the biology teacher contacted me to propose a design to the priest and they approved it so we how tall is it? it's 16 feet and then you did the proportions there ah, yeah so it's drawn on paper first for clients approval and then it's projected so we put up three scap foldings around the big tree and requested to cut off the branches so the remaining part we need to imagine what figure will fit that bar so what figure will fit and following also their theme who is their patron saint there so we I drew it and the 12 sculptors with me carved it on wood you used the word imagine event in our math classes we learned from Einstein that imagination is more important than than knowledge so because we have a lot of obstructions in math and now what you are imagining is being brought to reality so that was converted the dead the dead tree became alive again in the form of another of what was the image there it's a religious image right? yeah, it's something from the history pages yon it's something that you can find who is San Hidalponso in the stories San Hidalponso is a priest who had an apparition of the lady of Guadalupe and that inspired him writing his books so I just wanted to capture that page in the in the piece of big wood art so it's him with wood with a table with feathers and with a feather for writing books and the lady of Guadalupe with her trademark planes and then going around another story is there it's like printing the page on the wood so another story of him being veiled as a saint and how long did it take you to complete that project? that was three months three months of it when we collaborated with there were volunteer photographers right? yeah and who did that chainsaw? the chainsaw is by Ruel Ruel Lazaro and Frank Gapo so they're the two chief sculptors so Manggipay also helped out because his specialty is making cloth well in math we talk of transformations of course we use functions but in art I saw the power of transformation you remember when we tried to borrow that agila that with all of the snakes there in one piece from Danara and I thought six people would be able to carry that piece of art to work from forestry to our exhibit area but it took 12 of them to carry it and they were very very careful oh, yatan yatan so I said oh when it becomes a piece of art people are more careful because if it's up there in the air they keep shooting the eagle so I said oh this is what art does to transform the carry the men to be very caring about the piece of work and I think that also happened when we were doing the bai baiin neneng sa bai baiin and the people from syrica the researchers were very caring about the wood carving so thank you for introducing art to us and making us more caring you had twig art as well yeah we have twig art so when one of the trees needed to go like they didn't need it for something so there's a lot of twigs around so we asked for them and then created them into horses and giraffes and some structures and an oblation outside to fit into the environmental loving theme of UPLB because everybody is really that's their and I don't know core nature we see children taking pictures of toto toto toto is really a hit no? yes I mean I remember that was Dr. Padulina's idea you have to come up with a partner for neneng sa bai baiin and people you were carving out there yeah so you were carving open air and people are free to join to participate in the creating process right so can we do that again? here in Binawa can we ask for more of that kind where people can participate in the work that would be a great idea and people are now becoming interested in bai baiin I have a friend who once when she saw this place and the bai baiin she wants the names of her children written in bai baiin on the wall so I think we are making progress in promoting bai baiin in that sense right yeah and UP students are now beginning to realize that what is in their supply is an u and a pa and that's bai baiin okay did I tell you that bai baiin is based on the sign curve and the wave function yeah yes yes so can we do that all bai baiin characters yes and in fact the pangalai dance is really bai baiin in nature the wave movement so so thank you so much for for accommodating us and we look forward to having more conversations of math art here and you know I've been talking with other artists looks like the recurrent thing is math is really a science of patterns and if it is perceived that way you can see math everywhere in visual arts in dance in music and nowadays because the kids are into digital art I sat in an animation class and I found that there there's so much math in animation as well and the animator was telling us that we Filipinos are very good at it and I hope that you can help really hone those drawing talents in the kids because we are we hope to have to define Filipino animation in the future we are not just being outsourced that we can come up with our own animation project that's truly Filipino how about making the bye-bye move right through animation so thanks again and we hope our project gets approved to get the trees done