 Ac yn ei hun i'r ddybeth o'r tîmpaiddio i ddeicifoeddwyr 2504, y tuadau Llywodraeth a Gwyllteidthol i'r ddeitwyr i mwyaf. Rwyf i'n neud bydd gydag ei ddylch yn ei ddymeid ysgrifennu o ganfer y cyffredinig ond rôl i'r ddymwn i siaradau i gydigodd ei ddydlo i ddymwn i'r ddymwn i'r ddylch. Rwyf i'n ei ddydleti nhw'n teimlo i ddymwn i ddymwn i gydigodd ei ddymwn i'r ddyddli yn y parlymydd, nid oedd ffio poferty yn Scotland yn y 21 yma yn ymgledig, ond rwy'n gweithio y stefn ymgyrch yn ymgyrch. Llyfr oedd yn gweithio ffio poferty yn y manifesto ar y maen nhw, ac rwy'n gwybod i'r byw hwnnw, sy'n gweithio'r SMP. Rwy'n gweithio'r ymgyrch, Duo pob d fleshedig ac rymlo'r strateg genni'r syniad. Saiddw i'r overwhelmed fanaf Carras therefan usha thysg a sydd yn en Tuture. Rwy'n nesaf o'r ddaf yn ei wal Weinhamgdon gyda Institute d Civ ond, rwy'n adnodd y gyrioneddol codi'r yn iddyn nhw ei plantübern. Mae chi oedd morbylch ers mae sylwad iddyn nhwف珍 yng Nghymru yma yn euriadolgymai cynnwys ynTreffowyrdes. across all measures of social wellbeing. So given that the bill has not materialised, Scottish Labour want to restate our view and get agreement from the government for a warm homes act for Scotland that can tackle fuel poverty, improve energy efficiency and help to meet our climate change targets. Our main ask of government today is to reset the fuel poverty target. We believe also highlighted the challenges facing the public and social when private rented markets is important and call for parity across all sectors when it comes to the energy efficiency requirements. The 2016 target to eradicate fuel poverty has not been met and this is a source of regret. Whilst I am sure others will say more on missing the target and that Jackie Baillie, the minister who brought forward this target, will be very disappointed, there has nonetheless been real progress as a direct result of her introducing such legislation. I do believe that there has been an under-investment on what was needed, the evidence supports this, but nonetheless progress can be celebrated. In particular the success of local councils and housing associations must be recognised and built upon. What is clear is that by placing a duty on public housing bodies through housing quality and energy efficiency standards there has been major progress that is tackling fuel poverty in the social rented sector. We have also seen programmes in our own areas that have included windows, doors, cladden, insulation, boiler replacement and heating systems being put in place. We also know that councils and third sector organisations have been active in providing information services to householders to promote the benefit take-up campaigns and to offer energy saving advice to keep fuel bills as low as possible. I am told that on a scale of not to 10 for energy efficiency the social rented sector was averaging 3 when the duty for the energy efficiency standard was introduced and today it stands at around 7.5. That is progress and it is that progress that has improved health and wellbeing and boosted the weekly budget of families across Scotland. It begs the question why, if it is right for the public rented sector market, would it not be right for the private rented sector market? Much of it is what is publicly funded through housing benefit in the private rented market and what can be done to encourage improvement to own and occupied homes so that standards improve across our houses right across the nation. The most recent house condition survey noted that people in the private rented sector were more likely to cite a problem with their home as a reason for not keeping warm in winter such as poor insulation, drafts or inadequate heating, whilst in the social renters they were more likely to say it was the cost. That highlights how housing tenure differs and is why we say that fuel efficiency for the private rented sector must be addressed. Over the last 10 years, the number of people living in the private rented sector has doubled to 368,000. An estimated 80,000 families with children live in the private rented sector. As the existence home alliance has pointed out, the Scottish Government poverty adviser Naomi Eisenstadt said in her report that housing costs push many people into poverty and the focus needs to be on core costs such as rent, local property related taxes and home energy costs. As well as calling today for a reset of the target for fuel poverty, we are calling on the Government to introduce energy efficiency standards for the private rented housing sector in Scotland. No matter the landlord, social, private or public, the energy efficiency standard would be the same. It cannot be right that, on a scale of not to 10, energy efficiency on average in a council house or a housing association house is 7.5, whilst in the private sector, in the private sector let, it is 2 or 3. That is just not acceptable. Let us not forget that the average private rent is 86 per cent higher than the average social rent. Over the last 10 years, an estimated 140,000 private rented sector households were living in relative poverty. I hope that the Government will agree that we need to clarify not on whether but on when this is going to happen. What we are calling for is straightforward. We think that tenants in the private housing sector should have the same rights and support for a warm and safe home as tenants in the public and social sector. As I said earlier, with those powers it will assist in meeting the target that we, hopefully, can all sign up to resetting. I also make the point that the Government has announced its intention to bring forward a child poverty bill and there will be a specific target for tackling child poverty. I agree with that and I say to the Government that it is the same reasoning, the same principles for having a child poverty target that should apply to the argument for resetting a fuel poverty target. Energy Action Scotland has set out clear recommendations on fuel poverty and they make clear that a target that is realistic but ambitious must be set. It must be accompanied by a fuel poverty strategy and action plan with costs and timelines. It is essential that there is not a hiatus following the passing of the 2016 target date. Norman Kerr, the director of Energy Action Scotland, has called on the Government to widen the discussion to include key stakeholders and further to be a public consultation in order to reset the target as soon as possible. He states and I quote, the problem of cold, damp and expensive to heat homes must be addressed and there should be no fuel poverty in Scotland. I agree. Can we also be clear today that the Government must look at, in addition, the cost of energy? Unison Scotland this week issued a brief and said, fuel poverty is a scandal. There was once upon a time a commitment to eradicate fuel poverty, but while that may seem like a fairytale dream, thousands across Scotland live with the grim day-to-day nightmare of making the choice between food and fuel. At the same time, we have private companies making millions of profits. That needs to change. We need much more provision of energy as a social good rather than a source of enrichment. Should we be looking to change our broken energy system, the Scottish fuel poverty strategy working group has identified energy costs as one of the four or as another of the four drivers for fuel poverty. We must examine what options are available for more public control of energy provision. WWF Scotland, Friends of the Earth Scotland, the RSPB Scotland all say that Scotland will have to deliver 40 per cent of its heat from renewable sources by 2030 in addition to energy improvements in order to fulfil the target under the Climate Change Scotland Act 2020. To achieve that, we should be planning a massive expansion of district and communal heating systems and should be working with local government to explore all options for municipal and community energy schemes, building on the good work that happens in local councils right across Scotland. It is not acceptable that prices are rising faster than household incomes. Unless we address that, we cannot begin to eradicate fuel poverty. Scottish fuel bills are up 138 per cent since 2003. More help must be given to people who are fuel poor to switch to better tariffs, ensuring that their billing is correct and enabling some form of debt relief. There is also the option to use the new social security powers to explore the potential solutions to support people on low incomes to afford sufficient energy for healthy living. All of that needs to happen. One of the recommendations from the strategic working group is that the Government should identify specific measures to support customers in rural off-gas grid areas who suffer from higher energy costs than the rest of Scotland. That also needs to happen. Although there will be deep disappointment at the failure to eradicate fuel poverty and meet the target, we need to reset that target. However, there must be a little satisfaction at the progress that has been made in some parts of our society, namely for the housing associations, councils and the public rented sector. At the end of the day, no doubt today, we will hear much about statistics around fuel poverty and poor housing. However, I would come back to something that I mentioned in this Parliament before, which was earlier this year when I was in Paisley campaigning. I met a family who told me that they had moved out of their cold, damp house that they were in and moved into a new housing association house. There were two key points that they made to me. First, in the old, cold, damp house, 25 per cent of their household income was going on energy costs. When they moved into the new house with the proper energy in place, it was down to below 5 per cent of their income. Secondly, the little girl had asthma problems and in the old, damp house, they were continually having to make emergency visits to hospitals because of the dampness. Once they moved into their new home, the little girl had not once had to go back to hospital. The benefits of tackling fuel poverty are there for everyone to see. As Shelter Scotland has said recently, every £1 spent on reducing fuel poverty in Scotland, the NHS alone will save £42. There are overwhelming reasons for tackling fuel poverty. Let's unite together in this Parliament. Let's agree to reset the target and get on with the challenge at hand. Thank you very much, Mr Rowley. I don't know if you moved the motion. Did you move the motion? Thank you very much. I just like it for completeness. I now call Minister Kevin Stewart to speak to and move amendment 2504.3. Eight minutes please. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I'll start by moving the amendment, so I don't forget. I welcome today's debate on fuel poverty. This Government is committed to doing all it can to create a fairer, more equal Scotland and ensuring that people no longer live in poverty is central to that. I'm sure that the chamber will support the message in today's motion that we must ensure that everyone lives in an affordable, warm home. Addressing fuel poverty requires a collaborative effort across political parties, across Government departments, alongside other bodies such as the UK Government, off-gem energy suppliers, local Government and third sector. As a result of this Government's efforts, we've seen some great achievements. Over a million Scottish households have received energy efficiency measures from a range of programmes and the energy efficiency of our homes has massively improved. Two out of five homes are now in the top three ratings for energy efficiency, an increase of 71 per cent since 2010 and 11 per cent in the last year alone. We now have proportionately 35 per cent more homes with the top three EPC ratings that's A to C than there are south of the border. We've put in place a range of schemes to support those who may have difficulty hitting their homes and, as promised in our manifesto, we will bring forward plans for warm homes legislation in 2017. We've already allocated over £650 million since 2009 and, as we set out in our programme for government, we will make available a further £0.5 billion over the next four years to tackle fuel poverty, improve energy efficiency and further distribute low-carbon heat. That means that by the end of 2021 we will have committed over £1 billion to making our homes and buildings warmer and cheaper to heat. We are boosting the budget when we can. We announced a further £10 million for domestic energy efficiency this year, bringing our budget to £113 million, which we will use to help to reduce the costs of energy bills for householders. Unfortunately, last year, the UK Government, without warning, ended the Green Deal Home Improvement Fund a year early, depriving Scottish households of £15 million. We recognise that eradicating fuel poverty requires more than investment in energy efficiency. Above inflation price increases by energy companies beyond the Government's control have greatly impacted on Scottish households. Indeed, if energy prices had risen in line with inflation, fuel poverty levels in 2014 would have been 9.5 per cent instead of 35 per cent. Behind that, of course, as Mr Riley pointed out, are people. Combined with the interim recommendations of the fuel poverty strategic working group, I advise Parliament that our statutory target to eradicate fuel poverty by the end of November this year was not going to be met. As Parliament will know, both the strategic working group and the Scottish rural fuel poverty task force published their reports at the end of October, with over 100 recommendations between them. The expert advice from the fuel poverty strategic working group is that the fuel poverty definition is crucial to the basis of any new statutory target and that the current definition should be reviewed because it may be unhelpful in ensuring that support is delivered to those who need it most. Will the minister give a firm commitment that he will reset the target date by which we intend to end fuel poverty, and when will he bring that forward to Parliament? Let me start by saying that I immediately accepted the recommendation to review the definition of fuel poverty and will commission the expert independent review that the report calls for. Let me be clear that this does not mean that I want to define fuel poverty away far from it. Not at the moment. Let me finish and I will answer your question. Any changes that come out of the review must be justified to ensure that those in need receive the most support. Based on that advice, we believe that it is important that we first commission the independent review of the definition that we expect to be completed in summer 2017. Based on the outcome of that, we will consult on the new fuel poverty strategy, including a new fuel poverty target. John Scott I think that we are taking the intervention minister. Would the minister notwithstanding what he has just said, accept that whatever targets he sets himself or however describes it, he has made that task so much harder for himself by reducing the budget between 2015, 2016 and 2017 from £119 million to £103 million? Kevin Stewart Mr Scott had been listening to what I said earlier. The budget reduction that took place was a budget reduction from the Westminster Government. £15 million that could have been spent here in Scotland was ripped out of our budget by a Westminster Government. I hope that Mr Scott will speak to his colleagues in London and ask them if they will restore that £15 million so that we can use that to help families in fuel poverty across Scotland. At the moment, we recognise the scale of the challenge to effectively tackle fuel poverty. The two expert groups were tasked with providing insights to help us to take this first step in the development of our new fuel poverty strategy. Their recommendations will inform our team on developing an approach to tackling fuel poverty and improving the energy efficiency of people's homes wherever they live in Scotland. Our strategy will work alongside the actions that we have set out in our fairer Scotland action plan to alleviate poverty and to tackle inequality. We will take our strategy forward through Scotland's energy efficiency programme or SEAP for short and the related energy strategy that we will consult on early next year alongside plans to consult on minimum energy efficiency standards for homes in the private rented sector and regulation for district heating, both things that Mr Riley mentioned in his speech. Work to develop SEAP is under way and just over a month ago we allocated over £9 million for pilot projects this year. We will continue to engage with partners across all relevant sectors to transform the energy efficiency of existing buildings across Scotland to help to reduce energy costs and to tackle fuel poverty. I will do. You are in your last minute, minister, but you can if you wish. I will be very quick. I am sure that the minister would shim my view that we need clarity. I asked him would he reset the target to end fuel poverty. He talked about a new fuel poverty target that could be entirely different. Which is it? I have said quite clearly that we will review the definition of fuel poverty through the independent report. Based on the outcome of that, we will consult on a new fuel poverty strategy, including a new fuel poverty target. I do not think that I can be any clearer than that. In conclusion, I would like to invite everyone in this chamber to work with this Government to develop a new fuel poverty strategy for Scotland. That needs to take into account the review of the fuel poverty definition. As part of that process, we will give careful consideration to any constructive suggestions put forward by others. In the meantime, we will continue to do what we have been doing very well for the past few years—helping Scottish householders live in warmer, more affordable homes. I am absolutely determined to do everything that we can as a Government to tattle fuel poverty. I look forward to working with all colleagues in this chamber, stakeholders, including local government and the third sector, as we all need combined efforts to achieve that. I call Adam Tomkins to speak to and move amendment 2504.1. No more than seven minutes, please, Mr Tomkins. I have to say in opening that it is incredibly disappointing to hear a Government trying to hit the break when all of the Opposition parties in this chamber this afternoon are trying to encourage the Government to hit the accelerator when the Government tries to amend a Labour motion to take out the hard-edged requirement for action with the SNP's preference for inaction. I welcome the debate on fuel poverty and I congratulate— No, I will not, Minister. I welcome the debate on fuel poverty and I congratulate the Labour Party for making their time available this afternoon so that we can discuss it. It has been pointed out before that, in the Scottish Government's ministerial portfolios, communities and social security sit together, but it speaks volumes, Deputy Presiding Officer, that it is in Opposition time and not in Government time that we have a debate designed to underscore the essential link between localism and effective anti-poverty strategies. The Scottish Government may believe in a centralised top-down one-size-fits-all, nanny-knows-best approach to poverty, but all four Opposition parties in this chamber, from their different political perspectives, can see just how wrong ministers are about this. We will be supporting the Labour motion this evening. Its opening words are that the Parliament welcomes the recently published report of the Scottish Fuel Poverty Strategy Working Group. That report correctly identifies that fuel poverty has a number of causes, some within Government's control and others harder to reach. John Mason. I thank the member for giving way. Would he accept that one of the reasons is income and that sanctions imposed by the Conservative Government is putting people into fuel poverty? Adam Tomkins. I think it's interesting that the report notes that 58 per cent of the fuel poor are not classified as income poor. One of the lessons that we learned from a careful reading of the report is that thinking about poverty only through the prism of income, income, of course, is important, but thinking about poverty only through the prism of income will lead to ineffective anti-poverty strategies and not effective ones. Fuel poverty, defined as a household having to spend 10 per cent of its income on heating, is far too high in Scotland. On that, I think, we are all agreed, even in the Scottish Government. The report of the Fuel Poverty Strategic Working Group notes that the high rate of fuel poverty in Scotland is largely unchanged since 2009, so quite what it has to do with the United Kingdom Government sanctions, I don't know, but has doubled since the Scottish Government's fuel poverty target was set in 2002, and that is a target, of course, which there is now no chance of the Scottish Government meeting, not of the moment minister. Our amendment to Labour's motion makes plain what we would seek to do about this. We need, in our view, to introduce a clear target to achieve a transformative change in energy efficiency across Scotland. In our view, and this was in our manifesto this year, the target should be that all properties achieve a C rating or above in their energy performance certificate, or EPC, by the end of the next decade at the latest. In order to achieve that transformational change, significant levels of capital investment will be required. Accordingly, we would like to see the energy efficiency budget line of the Scottish Government's capital budget allocations increase year on year. That means capital infrastructure investment rising from this year's £80 million under 3 per cent of the budget to more than £300 million by the end of this Parliament, a cumulative £1 billion over the next five years. Ash Denham. The member will acknowledge that we have heard this morning in the finance committee about the serious challenges to the Scottish budget coming from Westminster, billions of pounds of cuts ahead of us. Where would the member suggest that the Scottish Government take the money from in order to put it into this? I'm delighted that Ash Denham asks that question, because what we also heard in the finance committee this morning, although perhaps she chose not to listen to this inconvenient truth, it was the evidence from Professor Anton Muscatelli that there will be significant capital expenditure on its way. The member can of course check the record to see what Professor Muscatelli said in her own time. People living in a home with low energy performance are three and a half times as likely to be suffering from fuel poverty as those in a home with high energy performance. Out of Scotland's two and a half million homes, 1.4 million are below EPC band C, of which 400,000 are in the worst rated band. That's why we strongly agree with the conclusion of the fuel poverty strategic working group that the aim should be to eliminate poor energy performance as a driver of fuel poverty. We recognise, of course, that fuel poverty cannot be tackled by improved energy efficiency alone, central though that must be if we are to be successful. That's why we consider that winter fuel payments and cold weather payments, which are among the social security powers to be devolved to this Parliament under the Smith commission agreement should be protected, albeit that, as we've said before, consideration should be given to the time of year when the former are paid. On the role of social security in the context of fuel poverty, I note that the report of the fuel poverty strategic working group says the following, I quote. While the social security system can provide immediate and very welcome relief for poor households, long-term solutions to raising incomes depend on thriving local economies, supporting well-paid secured jobs. We must also have the skills and capacity throughout Scotland to take up these opportunities, unquote, and on these benches we could not agree more with those observations. Energy efficiency programmes can assist with local economic development and employment, and to achieve this is an urgent need to work with the skills and development sectors and Scotland's economic and business development agencies so that, as the working group puts it, there are trained workers coming out of colleges to work in local firms to deliver policy goals on energy and fuel policy. In particular, the following actions are called for. Public procurement for energy efficiency schemes should give priority to local businesses and workers. Our enterprise agency should promote and support local businesses to deliver such schemes. Skills Development Scotland and Scotland's colleges should collaborate on developing the required skills. Here it is important to note that the fuel poverty strategic working group records the concern that the reduction in further education college places will have a negative impact on filling the skills that we have been saying on this side of the aisle for some time. Finally, Presiding Officer, there is, of course, the issue of energy prices. No debate on fuel poverty can overlook this aspect of the matter, which is why I was particularly pleased to see reported just yesterday that new measures designed to cap household energy bills are being considered as we speak by the UK Government. Greg Clark, Theresa May's business secretary said that the energy companies, and I quote, must treat customers properly or be made to do so. I agree with UK ministers that the Government should not shy away from imposing new measures and particularly cutting the number of households stuck on so-called standard variable tariffs that are the most expensive available. I move the amendment in my name. I now call Andy Wightman to speak to and move amendment 2504.2. Seven minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I thank also Labour for bringing this debate. It's clear that there is an unprecedented level of support across this chamber to bring about an end to fuel poverty, and that's clearly welcome. I want to start my contribution by thinking a little bit differently about our housing stock. Many houses and tenements across Scotland have stood for 100 years or more. Indeed, the Scottish fuel poverty strategic working group estimates the 85 per cent of the homes that we will be using in 2050 have already been built, and with some investment and maintenance they can remain homes for another century. In this sense, Scotland's housing stock is not a private asset. We pay to occupy our homes during our lifetime, certainly, but they represent vital infrastructure that should last across generations. Thus, houses are as much part of the public infrastructure as the streets and the public buildings, and we should be stearing them as a public good for future generations. I think that we should include, in order to achieve that, a review of the legislation underpinning common property. As we've heard, the ambitious fuel poverty target set by the Labour Liberal Democrat coalition and taken up by the SNP administration has been missed and has now expired. Across the country, almost 50 per cent of Scottish homes fail basic quality standards. This is quite an incredible statistic, and we know from other statistics that over a third of Scottish households are classed as fuel poor. People struggling to heat their homes face higher risks of poor health and lower educational attainment, as well as the added stress of having to make difficult choices between heating and putting the food on the table or buying a new school uniform. In previous sessions of this Parliament, my green colleagues have had success in encouraging the Scottish Government to take bolder steps to address fuel poverty. Greens consistently made fuel poverty a priority in our budget negotiations and helped to deliver £77 million more for fuel poverty programmes in the last session. My colleague Alison Johnston, along with campaigners such as WWF Scotland, helped to secure energy efficiencies of Scottish Government national investment priority. My amendment today is a call to make that national investment priority a reality. We can do that by accepting housing as one of our most important public assets, as I say, by using the policy tools available to us and by a level of investment that unlocks the benefits of warm homes. The Scottish Government's current commitment works out at £125 million per year across this Parliament. That's useful, but in real terms it will amount to a standstill investment by the end of this Parliament. To deliver the full benefit that warm homes can deliver for everyone with the benefits of better health, fewer emissions, reduced energy bills and more jobs, Parliament will have to sign off a budget that, as the motion says, is part of a progressive long-term increase in the fuel, poverty and energy efficiency budgets. Along with public support, the wealth tied up in buildings themselves needs to be harnessed for repairs. The REAPS regulations are vital and there are a host of other ways to make improvements on houses at point of sale affordable. Part of the cash released when a house is sold could be directed towards improvements by statute. It does not take much in the way of capital gains to accrue the £2,672 that Government statisticians expect it would take to pay to bring the average house in the lowest three EPC bands up to a D rating. Utilising the wealth that property accrues to make the house warm and water tight is an excellent use of capital gains and setting minimum standards across the private sector means that all houses that fall below the threshold will be affected and the requirements for energy efficiency improvements will be priced into the market. Thus we are disappointed that the SNP manifesto only talks about regulating the private rented sector when the problems are just as acute in the privately owned sector. The Scottish Greens manifesto followed the existing Homes Alliance recommendation of EPCC by 2025 so we will be supporting the Conservative amendment today. Recent legislation in both England and Wales has identified a similar goal with landlords facing restrictions on issuing a lease on property that fails to meet the basic standards from April 2020. The UK Government can also help us by ending the madness whereby new houses pay a zero rate of VAT, but repairs to existing homes are charged at 20 per cent. The Swedish Government is due to vote next month on a proposal to end VAT charges on appliance repairs before extending this to home repairs. We know that existing homes are the most important sector to tackle, but new build homes are also worth addressing. Scottish Green land reform proposals in our manifesto were designed to deliver thousands more affordable quality homes for the same amount of cash that the SNP plans to commit, allowing councils to purchase land at existing use value for affordable housing rather than that inflated prices after planning permission is granted will free up around 30 per cent of the cost of an average new house to invest in higher standards. The model was used in the UK until the 1950s and is still used in countries such as Germany. The SNP amendment notes that we have more than 100 recommendations from two expert groups to consider and committed to a fuel eradication strategy by 2017. We are happy to support that amendment too. One of the issues raised by the recommendations was a tightening of the definition of fuel poverty. That echoes the views of the Government's poverty adviser, Naomi Eisenstadt, that the definition of fuel poverty needs to be updated to ensure that support is better targeted towards those on low incomes. We are open to this change. Thank you, Mr Whiteman, for giving way, and I thank him for bringing up the point of the definition. I think that the independent review, which will be completed by summer 2017, will help us in terms of our consultation on the fuel poverty strategy to bring us forward to those statutory fuel poverty targets that we want. Does he agree that it is right that we have that independent review? We have it now in that report back in summer 2017 before we move to the new statutory fuel poverty target? Andy Wightman. We are very happy to support any efforts to ensure that the definition of fuel poverty is better targeted towards those on low incomes. Finally, I want to close by noting that addressing fuel poverty is at least as much about helping households as it is about treating homes, repairing and improving the energy efficiency of homes occupied by those in fuel poverty. We need to do much more to address the social and economic problems that cause fuel poverty and are exacerbated by it. Those include poor physical and mental health, low levels of education, socialisation and rurality. That requires a move away from traditional modes of delivering energy efficiency measures and towards much greater engagement with the front-line services able to better identify and support those in greatest need. I move the amendment in my name. We now move to the open speeches. Can I say to you that time is really tight, so please conclude within the six minutes, even if you have taken interventions? I call Jackie Baillie to be followed by Ben Macpherson. Presiding Officer, I am very pleased to contribute to Scottish Labour's debate on fuel poverty, but let me firstly declare an interest. I am the honorary vice president of Energy Action Scotland, proud to be part of such a fine organisation that campaigns to eradicate fuel poverty. I am also very proud to have been the minister that set the target to eradicate fuel poverty in the Housing Scotland Act 2001. I hope that that is not included in my time, Presiding Officer. Scottish Labour brought forward a statutory commitment to eradicate fuel poverty within 15 years. It was bold, it was ambitious and, yes, it was challenging. But not one party said that we couldn't do it. Every party gave their unanimous backing to the Housing Scotland Act, even the SNP. In fact, at committee, they said that 15 years was too long and they wanted to do it in eight. I applaud ambition, but the SNP really have no excuse here. They have been in power for almost a decade. They were responsible for achieving the target for two thirds of the time that the target existed. Levels of fuel poverty now are more than double those that existed when we set the target to eliminate fuel poverty by November 2016. Why did the SNP leave it until after the Scottish Parliament elections to tell us what everyone knew that they would fail to meet the target? In fact, Energy Action Scotland, the Government's own fuel poverty task force, have been telling them for a few years now that they needed to accelerate spending if there was to be any hope of ending fuel poverty. Did the SNP listen? What did they do? I hear you ask. They cut the budget for 2016-17 by £15 million. I know that they blame it on Westminster, but do you know what? If it's important to you, you make resources available. Minister, a couple of weeks ago announced funding of £10 million, and of course that's welcome. I don't know whether this is additional or not. Let's be honest. Taking £15 million away, replacing it with £10 million, is still a cut and therefore deserves no praise. Let me turn to the future. I want to start by thanking the Scottish fuel poverty strategic working group, thanking the Scottish rural fuel poverty task force. They have produced reports with a range of recommendations that provide a very helpful framework on which to proceed. High-level recommendations, backed by detailed actions. I really do not understand why the SNP Government needs more time to think about this before setting a target. I am old enough to recall that the Government tried to reset the definition before. In fact, I remember last year a senior civil servant coming to the energy action Scotland conference, telling us about the detail of that new definition. The task force is itself an expert group. Why do you need to commission more expert consultation on this? Is this simply an excuse for a delay? I will, in a minute. I want you to answer this question. The very first thing that the SNP Government needs to do is to reset the target, not introduce a new target that might be different, which could say that it will have fuel poverty in 50 years. I want you to reset the target to eradicate fuel poverty. Is that clear to the minister? Yes or no? Will he do that? I thank Ms Bailey for giving way. The reason why we are having the independent review is that that was one of the recommendations in the report. That is the way that we will set that definition. From that, we will then consult and then we will introduce that new statutory target to eradicate fuel poverty in Scotland. Jackie Baillie is very clear. I asked a simple question. He could have said yes. He could have said no. He said neither. Instead, he chose to take up lots of time. We do need a new target. We need to reset the original target to end fuel poverty. It is important that the cabinet secretary or the minister commits to that on the record before the debate is concluded. We need a strategy with actions, lead responsible history. No, I have heard enough from you already. Let me make a plea to the minister and the cabinet secretary. I know that everybody wants to count the number of homes improved, the number of energy-efficient light bulbs that are distributed, even the width of the insulation installed. I understand that the SNP is even concerned with the spaces in a Toblerone bar. Here was I always thinking that they were in favour of more separation, not less. To be serious, this should be about the outcomes, not the inputs. We should measure the difference that it makes to people rather than measuring things. Our ambition should be nothing short of ending fuel poverty. To do that, we need a step change in policy. Let me go back to the minister's announcement to illustrate the point. £10 million was to secure improved energy efficiency for 14,000 homes. That's great, but at that rate it would take us 60 years to end fuel poverty. What else did the minister have to say in his release? He led with changing the definition of fuel poverty. That's the SNP's priority. Tinker with the definition, little indication of the bold and decisive action required. This Scottish Parliament, Presiding Officer, has a swath of new powers coming in April. Powers on taxation, powers on social security, oh wait, we don't want those just yet, and powers over the energy company obligation. This is a real opportunity to do things differently, to recalibrate the system. The question is, is the SNP up to the task? Fuel poverty now stands at 845,000 households. That's a disgrace. This Government should get on with it. Ben Macpherson, to be followed by Alison Harris. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I also welcome the opportunity to speak and I'm grateful for Labour for bringing this issue to the chamber today. Presiding Officer, when I think of the issue of fuel poverty, I think in particular of a young lad in my constituency, Darren, who I met during the campaign. Before the election at the end of a community event that I was taking part in, he came over to me and said softly but clearly, Ben, it's brilliant that the SNP are building so many more warm, affordable homes, but please make sure that the Government also keeps spending money on older houses too. Some are still damp and cold sometimes. I think of Darren today and how together we have a responsibility to do what we can, to get to a point where every child, like him, grows up in a house that's warm and dry and safe, and I'm glad that we feel that collective responsibility today. While I acknowledge that there's always more work that we can do, as parties and as individuals, back in the spring I was glad to be able to say to Darren as I'm able to remind the chamber today that the SNP is absolutely committed to a child poverty bill and a warm homes bill. As we heard from the minister earlier, those will be delivered in the next few years. Those pieces of legislation will make a difference. They will help other people. As MSPs, we should all work together to make sure that those acts are as meaningful and beneficial as possible, and I look forward to playing my full part in that. Presiding Officer, I think that it's also worth repeating that, to date, the SNP Scottish Government has spent unprecedented amounts on action to address fuel poverty and increase energy efficiency. 650 million towards tackling fuel poverty since 2009, and 1 billion more will be invested before 2021 to make homes and buildings warmer and cheaper to heat. Also, Presiding Officer, it is my strong view that, as politicians, we must always reflect on the past and consider context and circumstance as we analyse the present and look to build a better future. Therefore, we must examine the issue of fuel poverty and the fuel poverty that exists today as a consequence of the dilapidation and reduction of affordable housing stock in the 1980s and 1990s. We must view it as a result of the pressure and UK Government cuts since the financial crisis of 2008. We must analyse it as a symptom of the destructive effect of years of ideological Westminster austerity and evaluate it as a manifestation of welfare reform and the persistent negative effects of low-pay and growing income and wealth inequality. Presiding Officer, those circumstances are sometimes of external events, but they are also, in many ways, a result of UK Government policy. That is why I am proud that, in Scotland, we are taking action to mitigate the effects of those issues and proactively change the circumstances of today. I am proud that the Scottish Government is using the powers of devolution to address fuel poverty where and when it can. That is why I welcome that the Scottish Government will invest £0.5 billion over the next few years to tackle fuel poverty and improve energy efficiency, contributing more than £100 million this year alone. That is why I also welcome that the Scottish Government will invest more in meaningful schemes such as heaps that last year saved £8 million in fuel bills and helped 30,000 households. I also welcome the additional £10 million to help families who most need support to keep warm this winter. It would be interesting to see how the trial of that fund goes and whether it can be utilised elsewhere in Scotland. Presiding Officer, the Scottish Government is investing heavily to help households in fuel poverty across Scotland. Like Darren I met during the campaign and spoke of earlier, I welcome that unprecedented investment and support. Judging by the amendments lodged today and most of the opening remarks, although there was some unhelpful tribalism, it is clear that we are unified as MSPs about wanting to tackle fuel poverty. We should take strength from that and debate constructively for the rest of today. Remember that we achieve more when we co-operate. We should collaborate to tackle fuel poverty as both the Scottish fuel poverty strategic working group report and the Scottish rural fuel poverty task force report call on us to do. That is what the experts have called on us to do. In that spirit, Presiding Officer, I would like to make mention to a recent expiring example of how collective political effort can make a difference to support communities. Last week, my constituents in Lawn Street and Leith received some very good news. After facing eviction by a common landlord for over a year, the community are all now secure in their homes and looking forward to Christmas. With extraordinary campaigning by the community, cross-party political support from myself, my predecessor Malcolm Chisholm, Andy Wightman MSP and others, from proactive local authority involvement action by a dynamic housing association who are taking over the properties and vital assistance from the Scottish Government and housing minister Kevin Stewart, as a team, as a collective, we achieved a very positive outcome for nearly 100 people who were in a really difficult situation. It was a real triumph for the common good. Presiding Officer, the people of Lawn Street will always inspire me. The positive outcome last week not only reminded me of what communities can achieve together when they take action and support each other, but it also emphasised to me so strongly what we as politicians can achieve when we work together and focus on people instead of party politics. It was collaborative politics at its best. The title of today's debate is Supporting Local Communities. Let's take action from the Lawn Street example and work together more to support the communities that we represent because that is how we'll make the biggest difference. That's how we'll best tackle fuelled poverty and all other forms of poverty. That's how we'll build a better Scotland and a fairer Scotland for all the young people like Darren I met in the campaign. Thank you. Alison Harris, to be followed by Ruth Maguire. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to contribute to this debate on an issue that still affects far too many Scottish households. Indeed, figures suggest that one-third of households are living in fuelled poverty, struggling to maintain their homes at a temperature suggested by the Scottish House condition survey, with an even higher figure in rural areas. In 2016, this is simply not good enough. As we've already heard, in June this year the Scottish Government finally admitted that it would not achieve its long-held target to end fuelled poverty by November 2016 this month. But it's yet to give a new date and an updated commitment for the fuelled policy eradication. Until the last minute, assurances were given by ministers that the November target was on track despite expert bodies predicting that the aim was unachievable with the resources being allocated to the problem. Fuelled poverty blights over one-third of Scottish households. 11 per cent of homes suffer from dampness or condensation, and the SNP Government's response is to slash the fuelled poverty energy efficiency budget by over 13 per cent. It promised £119 million in 2016-17 budget, but yet only £103 million is allocated in the draft budget. A cut by the SNP of almost £16 million, Jackie Baillie is quite correct. No, I'm sorry, I don't have enough time. Despite the fact that cold homes can cause increased costs for the NHS by way of increased health issues, including an increased risk of heart attack, mental health issues, as well as respiratory problems and asthma, all of which are among the many conditions made worse as a result of cold, damp homes. In 2008, Professor Christine Liddle of the University of Ulster reported that for every pound spent on reducing fuelled poverty, the NHS saved 42 pence. Spending money on homes occupied by pensioners could well lead to an even larger savings in the NHS. Often those who can be affected the most are children and health issues can lead to more days off school and lower educational performance, a contributor in continuing the cycle of poverty. As an important means of tackling the problem, energy efficiency of Scottish houses needs to be improved, with almost 60 per cent falling into performance band D or worse. Improving the energy efficiency of homes to an EPC rating of C or better would transform the lives of many of our fellow Scots, but it needs funding and it needs government commitment. It needs the Government to engage in improving energy efficiency with owner occupiers and housing providers public and private so that no group falls behind just because of the nature of their tenancy. No, I've no time, I'm sorry. Individuals should be given more information and be encouraged through grants and loans to make their homes more energy efficient. Deputy Presiding Officer, Scottish Conservatives recognise the need to improve energy efficiency in all Scottish homes to at least a C rating and to provide the capital investment needed to reach this goal. The budget for energy efficiency needs to rise. It needs to be double the proposed investment that the Government has set aside. Conservatives call for an investment of £1 billion over five years in Scottish homes that could lead to real health, educational and social benefits. The SNP Government can show far more ambition in how it is going to address the problem. It can set targets and allocate sufficient funding. It also needs to look at all forms of generating power efficiently and to keep bills low. Of course, it can give a clear commitment to protect winter fuel and cold weather payments once they are devolved to this Parliament. Continued support needs to be given to the excellent bodies such as Home Energy Scotland which offers free and impartial advice on energy efficiency pointing householders in the direction of available grants and other energy support and help to heat offering free and discounted gas connections to those in low incomes and vulnerable. Those bodies make a valued contribution in the fight for warmer homes. Groups such as Energy Action Scotland do a great job in continuing to flag up fuel poverty as an issue, campaigning for its eradication without fear or favour. They too have called on the Scottish Government to redraw the fuel poverty strategy and reset target dates following the publication in October of the reports from two short life groups set up by the Scottish Government, the Scottish Fuel Poverty Strategic Working Group and the Rural Fuel Poverty Task Force. Grant titles, but let us see real progress begin in this issue. Real progress towards all properties reaching at least an APCC rating. Real progress towards bringing forward warm homes legislation. A recent press release from Energy Action Scotland concluded by reiterating that people across Scotland want to know that one day the right that everyone has to be able to live in a warm, dry home at a price they can afford will be a reality. The Government needs to do far more in addressing this problem. It needs to tell us the revised target date and tell us whether or not it will match the commitment of the Scottish Conservatives to eradicate this problem. The response that is not based on the misplaced targets of the past but a realistic, well-funded plan with a clear timetable to ensure that the aim of having all Scottish homes free of fuel poverty is achieved. I call Ruth Maguire to be followed by Mark Griffin. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate about the hugely important issue of fuel poverty. I welcome the recent reports and recommendations from the fuel poverty strategic working group and the rural fuel poverty task force that will be instrumental for the Scottish Government as it works towards a new strategy on eradicating fuel poverty. As we go forward it is important to keep in mind that the issue of fuel poverty is a highly complex and multifaceted one. One to which there is no simple solution and for which no single agency can address by itself. Indeed, that was stated in both reports. Chair of the strategic working group David Sigworth, for example, highlighted recent increases in the underlying costs of fossil fuel due to devaluation as an exacerbating factor, something over which the Scottish Government does not have control. The chairman of the rural fuel poverty task force, Dai Alexander, meanwhile, stressed how both the UK Scottish Governments as well as Ofgem and other major utility companies all have, and I quote, crucial roles to play in eliminating the scourge of rural fuel poverty. Indeed, multiple recommendations in both reports explicitly identify bodies other than the Scottish Government, such as the UK Government or Ofgem, as the lead organisations or responsible party for an action. I will only mention this to underline the scale and complexity of the issue of fuel poverty and the co-operation across many different organisations and areas that it demands, and thus the limit that any one body can achieve working alone. Where the Scottish Government has influence, however, there can be no doubt that it is ready and willing to play its part. To quote from the report of the strategic working group, the high levels of fuel poverty exist despite commendable investment by the Scottish Government in energy efficiency programmes to alleviate fuel poverty. The establishment of the two short-life independent strategic working groups and the reports published by them, cited in this motion, represent just one example of the serious commitment of this Government to do all that it can to eradicate fuel poverty and to increase energy efficiency, in particular in rural communities where the risk of fuel poverty is unfortunately all the higher. Just a few weeks ago, the Government announced an additional £10 million of funding to help families in the south and across Scotland who need most support to keep warm this winter. £9 million of that will be allocated to housing associations and councils to improve the housing of some of the poorest households and those most in need. That brings the total amount spent by the Government on directly tackling fuel poverty to £113 million this year alone. The remaining £1 million of the most recent funding has been made available to provide grants to install energy efficiency measures. Those are only the most recent actions taken by the Government and there is not time to cite all of the achievements of this SNP Government since 2007, but by way of illustration, a few facts serve to highlight the work that has been done. Since 2009, over £650 million has been allocated to tackling fuel poverty. More than £1 million energy efficiency measures have been installed in almost £1 million households since 2008. In 2015, more than £8 million was saved in fuel bills thanks to home energy efficiency programmes. The scheme covering 30,000 households. Presiding Officer, this Government has spent unprecedented amounts on fuel poverty and energy efficiency and the Scottish Government is giving more help to people to combat fuel poverty than any other administration in the UK. Looking to the future, it is clear that the Scottish Government is focused on building what has already been achieved. It is committed to making half a billion pounds available to tackle fuel poverty and improve energy efficiency over the next four years. That means, by the end of this parliamentary term in 2021, the Government will have committed more than £1 billion to making our homes and buildings warmer and cheaper to heat. Energy efficiency has been designated as a national infrastructure priority. The cornerstone of this Scotland's energy efficiency programme will commence fully in 2018 with pilots already under way in 11 areas with particularly high levels of fuel poverty. Returning to the main topic of today's motion, the initial response of the Government to the recommendations of the reports of the working group and the task force makes clear that it is more focused than ever on eradicating fuel poverty. A key recommendation of the strategic working group's report was to review the very definition of fuel poverty to ensure that it is as effective and constructive as possible moving forward. The Government has already announced the setting up of the independent expert review to do just that, and I firmly welcome the decisive response of the Government to this most fundamental and urgent of the recommendations in the report. Reviewing the definition of fuel poverty is a vital step in making sure that future action really makes a difference to those who need it most and will pave the way for closer and effective consideration of the other recommendations of the report. In total, the two reports make over 100 recommendations and they should now be carefully considered together with the results of the independent review of the definition of fuel poverty as the Government develops a new and effective eradication strategy for 2017. I look forward to supporting the Scottish Government and working with colleagues across the chamber as we aim to tackle fuel poverty by taking into account the wider picture of income, energy costs, energy use and energy efficiency, all of which feed into fuel poverty. After a decade in power, there are no excuses for the SNP failing to deal with fuel poverty. Today, too many still have to choose between fuel and food. However, the Scottish fuel poverty strategic working group confirmed what we have known for a long time. The target on eradicating fuel poverty will be missed. The most recent statistics for 2014 published last December 845,000 households were fuel poor 35 per cent of all households. In November which unite published details of the scale of just how much customers are overpaying energy companies by failing to switch, which said that UK consumers are collectively overpaying by £1.4 billion for their energy, while 16 million people over half of energy customers are stuck on standard tariffs. At the energy action conference Unite said that research had shown that a move to a publicly-owned energy system in the UK would pay for itself within 10 years and could save households around £158 a year on their bills. The poor energy efficiency of Scotland's existing housing stock is an important issue for tackling fuel poverty and climate change. The vast majority of households living in the draftiest, leakiest homes are also living in fuel poverty. Around 50 per cent of Scotland's climate change emissions depend on the demand for heat. We led the debate when we promised a warm homes act to help to tackle fuel poverty by driving up energy and insulation standards. The Government also committed to the same legislation but plans for a bill were missing from the programme for government. By supporting the growth of district heating and renewable heat and helping to improve the energy efficiency of our homes, a warm homes act would provide the framework for the next generation of domestic renewables to develop. That would provide confidence and certainty to the renewables industry to develop innovative district and micro solutions. As I said already over half of Scotland's energy consumption is accounted for by our demand for heat yet less than 4 per cent of that comes from renewables and only 1 per cent is provided by district heating. While the Government is right to aim for all new fossil fuel power plants to be equipped and existing plants to be adapted for carbon capture and storage we could be much more ambitious. We should push for those plants to become co-generating to get away from the current situation in which according to Scottish Government figures only 35 per cent of fossil fuel is converted to electricity and 65 per cent of that energy is then lost as waste heat. A co-generating plant where electricity is generated and the heat that is normally wasted and pumped into the sea is instead pumped into neighbouring communities as hot water for district heating schemes that can operate at levels of efficiency close to 90 per cent and that level of increased efficiency would go a long way to achieve in the Government's target to reduce energy consumption and at the same time it would lift thousands of families out of fuel poverty in surrounding communities allowing the Government to then concentrate resources in other areas. Presiding Officer, I also wanted to talk about communities who are off the gas network. There are many rural communities, urban communities on the edge of bigger towns that are affected. Industry has been critical of the design of energy performance certificates in the standard assessment procedure methodology for over a decade since the main measure of the EPC is based on running costs and as such they are unreliable as a measure of energy efficiency in off gas grid areas. The current EPC system in Scotland creates houses by their notional cost of providing energy for heating and hot water per square metre. The SAP methodology does not reflect the efficiency savings that can be made by switching from storage heaters to electrical boilers and heating systems. We have a situation in Scotland where local authorities are then forced to install expensive storage heaters when building new houses or replacing existing heating systems technology that would save households money just because they need to install a system with the best flawed SAP score. In November 2014, the Telegraph reported that rural householders had paid over £40 million into the energy company obligation and yet it received on average less than £2 per household in return since the ECOs funded via a lefion consumer bills. The cost burden has been disproportionately carried by off gas grid consumers who are failing to benefit from those schemes. Now that the Government is taking over responsibility for that scheme in Scotland it would be interested to know how they plan to support off gas grid customers. We believe that the Government could do so much more when it comes to addressing fuel poverty. Resetting the target to eliminate it and bringing it forward a one-homes bill next year would be a good start. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Clearly we're looking at some fairly lengthy reports today and I have to say I fully agree with the Government view that we need to take time to consider them properly before deciding exactly what action to take. Now hopefully we can all agree here that fuel poverty is a big problem and we can also agree it is not easy to solve or it would have been done so by now. So we get a nonsense statement from Jackie Baillie like you just make the resources available but what she actually means is that she would have to cut the health service or cut colleges or something else if she wants to put more money into housing you cannot just make resources available unless Jackie Baillie is going to tell us how you make resources available. I think that if the member was paying close attention which I would encourage him to do we were talking about £15 million being replaced by £10 million it's a cut of £5 million if the Government cared £5 million is small change in the overall budget. John Mason I would give more credence to Jackie Baillie's speeches if she didn't to also demand more money for this and more money for that and more money for the next thing. Clearly we face a range of moving targets one of the most recent being the devaluation of the pound which is likely to lead to higher fuel prices in due course. I particularly agree with the report from the fuel poverty strategic working group when it talks about the four drivers of fuel poverty namely incomes, energy costs energy performance and how energy is used in the home. I also agree that all four are important and we must deal with energy costs, performance and how energy is used. For example if a major repair work is needed in a home grants and loans are likely to be needed even for people unreasonable incomes but actually most people should have sufficient income to pay for routine maintenance and their actual fuel costs without needing extra outside help. I think sometimes we debate issues too much in silos of course the living wage is a good thing and sanctions are a bad thing but they are not standalone issues. One of the reasons that both of those issues are respectively good and bad is that by improving them people can afford to live and pay out of their own decent income for a minimum standard of living. I was particularly struck by the statement in 3.1 of the report that quote in some cases low income households live in social housing with good energy performance yet are still fuel poor. 5% of fuel poor households live in properties rated EPC, band B or C end of quote. The report then goes on to make 5 recommendations in relation to income they go from 3 to 7 the way the report is structured 3 is to make sure people are getting the benefits they are entitled to 5 talks about training places and job opportunities 6 and 7 are more about energy policy and energy projects but the other one, the remaining one is number 4 and it says that we should review welfare and social security policies both devolved and reserved and in particular suggests that the Scottish living wage and social security policies should work together to ensure a basic living standard for every household. Presiding Officer I believe that this is absolutely key if we take sanctions as an example these are reducing people's income to unsustainable levels everyone should have a guaranteed minimum income we cannot have sanctions and fuel poverty, that is so frustrating listening to the Tories making the kind of speeches they are they support sanctions therefore they support fuel poverty when we as a society impose sanctions on an individual or family we are deliberately putting them into fuel poverty that is what happened in the film i Daniel Blake if you have seen it moving scenes of the young family to the house with no heating now it appeared to be a fairly reasonable house but they had no income to heat it because they had been sanctioned Daniel Blake to give him his due then shows them how to use one candle to help keep themselves warm now I've used the comparison before but no one has convinced me it is wrong so I will use it again if the worst people in our society are criminals and they are guaranteed a reasonable level of warmth and prison how can we not guarantee that same minimum to every family as far as I know we cannot sanction prisoners by switching their heating off so how can we sanction decent families by switching their heating off if I can just touch on one or two other issues in the time yes absolutely John Scott accept that his is the party of government and these are the government's choices and you've had ten years to address this problem and you've failed I think my main argument is that one of the key factors in this and I think his party are very guilty there has to be a guaranteed level of income that cannot be sanctioned and his party should be ashamed of the sanctions regime that they look over I'm sorry I think I'm running out of time clearly with the pound going down that's going to push fuel prices up so that's going to hit poorer people even more now I think Andy Wightman was referring to a private rented and owner occupiers when he talked about getting repairs and maintenance done which I also was going to mention because I think if we are to improve the housing stock we need to look at maybe compulsory factoring and having somebody to lead in every property to get things improved finally I note the recommendation to change the definition of fuel poverty as it has proved unhelpful to targeting those most in need that is a valid argument although the fear from some will be that someone will try and pretend that there's less of a problem than there actually is and that there will be an expert independent review to see how we can make improvements Presiding Officer there are certainly essentials we should expect in a modern developed society which we claim to be food and clothing are certainly two but warm dry accommodation has to be as well thank you Andy Wells followed by Alex Cole-Hamilton thank you everyone in Scotland should be confident that they are able to heat their homes and that's why I welcome the Scottish Labour Party bringing this issue to the chamber today over a third of households in Scotland are living in fuel poverty according to the report by the Scottish fuel poverty strategic working group that is 845,000 households and for rural areas this figure hits a staggering 50% fuel poverty has almost doubled since 2003 and has since risen from the 25% figure as it was when the SNP led government took office in 2007 the Scottish Conservatives have spoken a number of times on this issue linking the issue with much higher chances of developing mental health problems respiratory disease and other physical health issues when it comes to health for example research shows that residents with bedroom temperatures at 21 degrees are 50% less likely to suffer depression and anxiety and those with temperatures of 15 degrees and for children living in damp mouldy homes are nearly three times more likely to develop symptoms of asthma certain demographics are more vulnerable than others and the annual winter mortality in Scotland report revealed that 2,850 people the majority of whom were elderly died the result of being winter in 2015-16 that was the second highest number since 2008-9 clearly even though the detriments of full poverty are not always in the control of the government either the Scottish or the UK more radical action needs to be taken we need clear statutory targets and timetables for action and a transformative policy getting to the root of the problem and that is what the Scottish Conservatives have proposed as the report states the quality of the house that you live in should never determine some people in Scotland paying disproportionately higher bills over 40% of social housing falls short of the Scottish housing quality standard with regards to all of its housing stock and Scotland is falling short of the desired energy efficiency standards for instance around 60% of its properties are rated EPCD or worse and that figure is to 80% in rural areas the answer lies in investment in energy efficiency measures not only as a way of bringing down household bills but also a way of reducing our carbon emissions as well as measures by the UK Government as we have seen by the roll out of free smart meters across the UK which will give consumers more control over their energy use we should as my colleague I'm sorry not at the moment thanks Tomkins puts forward in his motion have clear targets set by the Scottish Government for instance aiming for all the properties to achieve an EPCC rating or above by the end of the next decade would drastically improve energy efficiency in Scotland and not only would this save money for the consumer but it would entail a national programme with the potential to create 9,000 jobs in Scotland if completed by 2025 significantly as existing homes aligns points out when compared with other national infrastructure projects such an initiative would create job opportunities across Scotland I welcome the Scottish Government's designation of energy efficiency as a national infrastructure priority but in order to achieve the change that we propose we need to commit significant levels of capital investment to the project the Scottish Conservatives have proposed gradually raising the energy efficiency budget 10% of the Scottish Government's capital budget allocations a bold capital infrastructure investment that would rise from this year's 80 million to 340 million by 2021 and totally I combined £1 billion over the next five years this is a policy that is supported by the Scottish full poverty strategy working group report in addition to grants and loans we believe energy efficiency improvements should be reflected in the tax system specifically energy efficiency improvements could be incentivised through LBTT discounts energy efficiency is of course not the only factor behind eradicating fuel poverty which is why I want to reiterate the party's commitment to protecting the winter fuel payment and cold weather payments other than a reassessment of what times of the year it is paid when they are devolved to the Scottish Parliament energy companies are too in some way responsible for tackling this issue which is why I welcome the UK Energy Secretary Greg Clark's decision to probe further into why the big six energy companies are making profits higher than the claim and to conclude today I want to highlight again the need to address fuel poverty in a bold and transformative way the Scottish Government has designated fuel poverty as one of its main commitments but we need clear timetables and targets in order to halt the downwards trend that we are seeing thank you Alex Cole-Hamilton to be followed by Clare Adamson I like to start by congratulating the Scottish Labour Party for bringing forward this very important debate in January of this year the Scottish Liberal Democrats led a similar debate in this chamber calling for the Scottish Government to reverse cuts to its own fuel poverty budget and to revise its 2016 fuel poverty target because they were set to miss it on some margin yet this went unheeded and was voted down by the SNP we've seen ministers cast aside advice from across this chamber and even from the experts repeatedly they denied they were failing to meet their fuel poverty eradication target yet miss it they have and there can be no hiding from this fact I would expect all members from across this Parliament to agree that in Scotland at this point in human civilised development that families particularly in our remote and rural communities still have to choose between heating their homes and putting food on the table we can only hope that now unencumbered by their supermajority the SNP will now listen to the solutions offered to it from across these benches Scottish Liberal Democrats have sought cross-party support in that debate to achieve warmer, healthier home for every single person in Scotland and we do so again today introducing a warm homes act alongside the establishment of catch-up zones to deliver warmer homes in communities which have fallen behind is a plan that we must all get behind winter is coming and so the government must act quickly to establish a new target to eradicate fuel poverty last year citizens advice Scotland published their report still addressing the poverty premium which brought to light the increased cost of low incomes often face they are punished for not being able to afford internet access to secure the best deal for their energy and further discriminated because of internet only tariffs they are further punished when energy companies are far more likely to give their best deals to those who can pay by direct debit and they are guaranteed payments each month from consumers and they are further punished still when using meters there is no chance of being in financial difficulty if you are in debt that machine can have a voracious appetite this is yet another frontier where having resources can lead to savings but not having those resources can mean the opposite that is why the smart meter roll out is so crucial as an example of a national infrastructure project we need to see in order to help people out of fuel poverty helping people to save money by showing how much energy they can save more efficient that households should in Scotland face such conditions is a national outrage 25 per cent of homes in our nation's capital a third of homes across Scotland now the world health organisation attributes 30 per cent of preventable deaths to cold and poorly insulated housing yet in the Scottish Government meets this reality with a £15 million cut to efforts to eradicate fuel poverty we do well to remember the multi-dimensionality of this problem fuel poverty is demonstrably symptomatic and contributed to a wider range of negative and social lifestyle factors choosing to heat only certain rooms in a home can lead to overcrowding and with it the ready exchange of viruses and bacteria whilst in turn causing a proliferation of damp and rot in rooms that go unheated the marmot review in 2011 reported that fuel poverty in cold housing can have a damaging effect on mental health in all age groups a reality underscored by the warm front review which revealed that following installation of heating and installation improvements residents were 40 per cent less likely to report higher levels of psychological distress after that installation when the Scottish Government gets round to replacing the mental health strategy which expired at the end of last year then ensuring that the mental wellbeing of our citizenry is underpinned by warm dry places to live must be central to that incrementalism in the fuel poverty agenda has failed the most vulnerable communities in our society it is time that this Parliament meets the challenge of fuel poverty and bringing us closer to fuel parity with the warm homes act only through legislation can we make meaningful progress to eradicate a social condition which should by rights be confined to the pages of a Dickens novel our ambition in this enterprise must be unfettered with catch-up zones created as part of legislation to accelerate progress in our most deprived communities and every aspect of our answer to this challenge needs to recognise the very specific needs and circumstances of rural and island communities Presiding Officer the cost of our inactivity in this regard can be measured out in human lives whereas the benefits of action are legion with a step change reduction in our carbon emissions job creation through infrastructure investment and a measurable decline in demand for primary care while with a demonstrable improvement in our mental health Presiding Officer the question should not be can we afford to invest in our efforts to eradicate fuel poverty but can we afford not to Thank you very much Mr Cole-Hamilton Clare Adamson to follow by John Scott Ms Adamson please Thank you very much Presiding Officer there is a few things more fundamental to human existence than our housing indeed Maslow's hierarchy of need has it is one of the physiological needs at the very lowest level of that hierarchy of esteem and so it is very right that we are debating these issues this afternoon in the Parliament I do want to talk about an innovation in my own area in my speech but I have to address some of the debate issues that have been raised this afternoon I really find it quite incredulous when I hear Conservative members in the benches express such concern on fuel poverty without any recognition of the contribution that their Government has made to fuel poverty in this country Much has been made of the Government not meeting its target as many people have talked about the efforts that have been made towards reaching that target but the Government has had its hands tied behind its back because it has been working alongside a Westminster Government that is imposing fuel poverty on our citizens Jackie Baillie said that the cap of £5 million was pocket money to the Government In the last three months the Government has spent £9 million through the welfare fund supporting people in adverse poverty including fuel poverty and what about those families that have been affected by concentrics and the HMRC debacle looked over by HMRC cuts into their income no way forward for appeals the onus on them to prove their innocence which has been proven by so many of them again families pushed into fuel poverty and there was again a concern for pensioners what about the 100,000 Scottish pensioners the waspy women whose retirement plans and their income projections have been absolutely slashed by the plans of this Westminster Government so I would say to all colleagues and opposite benches when you come to the chamber and demand more resources and money please tell us which budget will be cut where is that money going to come from because anything less than that is simply irresponsible what I did want to highlight today was the BR innovation park in Ravens Creek in my area the British Reset establishment has been on the Ravens Creek site for a number of years and they have a demonstration development showcasing the future of sustainable housing how it might look but also includes a build of the very standard forna block council housing which has been used to demonstrate how older properties can have fuel efficiency improved and it demonstrates as a mix of insulation solar power and different window systems that can help fuel efficiency in our traditional building I might at this point invite the minister to come along and see the BRE but I was there with him just a few weeks ago to also see the dementia friendly building that is there please come along and see some of the wonderful work that has been done demonstrating what can be done because Andy Wightman was absolutely right less than 1 per cent of our stock is being replaced each year so the focus of this has to be in and around our existing properties and that is a European funded project it was done in conjunction with Belgium and Sweden and in partnership with the Edinburgh University and Historic Scotland I was invited there earlier this year by Robin Harter of WWF and Liz Marquis the director of energy agency and also accompanied by the policy manager of the association of local authority chief housing officers it was invited in the role as the existing homes alliance to look and discuss some of the information that they have in relation to this area Mr Rowley Adamson for giving way and can I say to her that I have been to Ravenscraig and I have visited an agree way on the positive things she says there does she agree that the success in the public and social rented sector in housing needs to be replicated in the private rented sector and whether you rent publicly or rent privately you should expect a certain standard in terms of energy efficiency I do agree that there has to be progress in the private rented sector and I think that is an issue going forward but we have improved building standards in those areas and I am sure that tenants rights with the bill that was put through last year private tenancies bill will improve the opportunity for residents to raise concerns with private landlords the project that I was invited to see was with the energy agency Ayrshire who are working closely with the GPs in their area the energy agency is a charity that is funded successfully bid for the contract to manage the energy saving Scotland advice centre and the Scottish Government now have the managing the energy saving trust money in that part of the country but they work with the GPs and take referrals specifically for concerns where people have any problems with their lungs in terms of COPD or indeed in asthma and they work closely with the most at-risk groups to ensure that they can have the best advice and the opportunity to access the home energy payments that are there and we know how important this is the APPG in respiratory health in Westminster took evidence on this a few years ago the difficulties in it and everyone agreed that COPD and asthma are worsened by colder houses so it is certainly a priority and I look forward to working with the Scottish Government going forward to eradicate fuel poverty thank you very much I call John Scott who is followed by Rhoda Grant Mr Scott please thank you fuel poverty is one of the biggest problems affecting Scotland today and it's not getting any better on this SNP Government's watch with almost 60 per cent of dwellings being rated bandier worse is it any wonder health and mental health problems are on the increase in Scotland particularly in rural Scotland in Scotland a higher proportion of households live in fuel poverty than anywhere else in the UK with 35 per cent of households are staggering the 845,000 homes living in fuel poverty astoundingly since 2007 and since the SNP came into Government and this figure 845,000 has been reached on their watch a figure which was only 586,000 homes when they first took office moreover 229,000 houses are now in extreme fuel poverty up from 172,000 since 2007 and the SNP Government as I have said today should be hanging their head in shame in the chamber today will recall Alex Salmond MSP and then First Minister saying on 20 September 2007 we are entirely committed to the statutory target to eradicate fuel poverty that point was made by the minister yesterday well compare that commitment made then with the reality today of course none of these despairing statistics happen without a reason and to use a traditional country expression there is no need to look for complicated reasons when simple ones exist and the simple explanation is that the Government spending in this area is certainly reducing between the financial years 2015-16 and 2016-17 SNP Government spending in this area will fall by 15.7 million as Jackie Baillie has pointed out while Parliament has been told that 119 million was allocated to this problem in 2015-16 this year's projected figure is 103 now all of this is bad enough of it in itself but the knock-on effects are what make failing to address fuel poverty so much worse and I refer as others have done to the health of those living in fuel poverty already described in part by Alex Rowley cold homes lead to respiratory and cardiovascular problems temperatures below 12 degrees growing to place strain on cardiovascular systems for every one degree drop in room temperatures below 5 degrees GP consultations for respiratory tract infections can increase by up to 19% staggering it's well known that the respiratory diseases are responsible for about a third of excess winter deaths and cardiovascular diseases are responsible for about 48% of excess winter deaths excess winter deaths they've even got an abbreviation EWDs are three times higher for those living in the coldest quarter of housing compared to those who live in the warmest quarter of housing heating heating minister is what makes the difference between living in a house or a home cold homes are also linked to increases in asthma among children and children living in damp mouldy houses are between 1.5 and 3 times more prone to coughing and wheezing than children who live in dry homes being there myself so these are some of the facts and I will recall John Swinney standing here in our Parliament saying we the SNP will spend to save while here is a classic opportunity of spending to reduce fuel poverty going a begging while our health service struggles with the consequences I almost feel sorry for Shona Robison for constantly firefighting to keep our health service going and deal with the winter pressures and yet our colleagues and cabinets are cutting the very budgets that would help keep people out of GP surgeries and are overburdened and sometimes overwhelmed hospitals particularly in my constituency the Government really needs to wake up and smell the coffee or join the dots pick whatever metaphor you want but spending to reduce fuel poverty will be repaid many times over society and also spending on fuel poverty will massively reduce demand on our NHS so what's to be done? Adam Tomkins has already spoken about the need for transformational change and I would like to reinforce that view and starting today we should be seeking an EPC rating of C or above for all properties in Scotland a target that should be achieved by 2030 as he has said we need to commit significant capital investment to such a project with a percentage share of Dell capital budgets rising to 10 per cent by the year 2021 cumulatively we propose that a billion pounds should be spent over the next five years to address this problem because we believe that those on the lowest incomes and living in the hardest to reach homes should be helped first energy efficient improvement should also attract relief through the council tax and business rate system a manifesto commitment of ours in the past as well as grants or loans being made available to those to deliver these required upgrades to so many properties in Scotland winter fuel payments in cold weather payments should be protected when they are devolved to the Scottish Parliament although this is perhaps a less immediate prospect than was envisaged even a week ago so in conclusion we welcome this debate today in Labour's name because this debate draws attention to an issue the Government are failing to address it cannot be in anyone's or any government's interest to keep people in the poorest dampest and coldest housing yet that is what is happening after almost 10 years in Government that is what has become the Government's track record and it is failing those most in need I can only hope that today's debate will spur the Scottish Government into action and I again congratulate the Labour Party for bringing this matter to the attention of our Parliament thank you Mr Scott we follow by Richard Lochhead and Mr Lochhead will be last speaking in the open debate thank you like others it is desperately disappointing that the Scottish Government has failed to meet the target to end fuel poverty and this is despite a fall in fuel prices because of the downturn in oil and gas the previous Labour coalition as Jackie Baillie pointed out or should I say indeed Jackie Baillie set targets to eradicate fuel poverty but that Government put in place funding to do so as well but this Government has been cutting that funding for years and it also included carbon reduction targets as well as fuel poverty now carbon reduction is a laudable aim but having it in the same target meant it worked against tackling fuel poverty funds for insulation and better heating systems are open to all rather than targeted at the fuel poor we also know that those struggling to make ends meet neither have the time nor the inclination to search about for schemes and funding and when they do find them they also need money to contribute and that makes it absolutely unattainable for them when you're struggling just about food on the table and to clothe your children you've got very little time to look for solutions that's why our response to fuel poverty needs to be proactive because there's getting out to meet people and help them find solutions and also provide them with funding yesterday I heard of a wonderful initiative taking place in Sutherland every patient discharged from hospital is being offered a free home energy assessment many of these people will be elderly they'll be in need of assistance in dealing with fuel efficiency energy suppliers and insulation it's a really simple initiative but it could have an enormous impact on those people we all know that fuel poverty is higher in rural areas in places like Sutherland the Scottish rural fuel poverty task force reports states that over half of all rural and remote households live in fuel poverty and that's a staggering statistic there's a number of reasons for this firstly income rates are often lower with people working a number of jobs some seasonal just to make ends meet many of these seasonal jobs are in the summer when people do not need the same level of heating they're often underemployed earning a great deal less when the cold weather sets in making it much more difficult to afford to buy fuel they're also often off gas grid and therefore don't have access to the cheapest form of fuel being off gas grid also means that they don't qualify for many of the schemes that are available to those who are on gas grid colour gas have provided a briefing for this debate and I won't quote it but I recommend it as reading as it shows the disadvantage that policies from both our governments heap on those who live in off gas grid homes and are in fuel poverty by things like allowing the big six to provide those schemes immediately pushes people out of their jurisdiction deprivation indicators also don't work well in rural areas as urban areas so people don't qualify because they live in an area of deprivation in many cases they can't those in fuel poverty can't afford the best alternative off gas grid which is oil heating they can't afford either the price to install oil central heating or indeed the capital to fill up an oil tank the government central heating scheme for elderly people wouldn't pay for oil fired central heating systems and ask pensioners who already had been means tested to qualify for the scheme to find thousands of pounds to pay for the additional cost of oil fired central heating and that was impossible for them to do so therefore they are left as are many others in rural and remote areas with electric heating and it's among the most expensive but also among the most inefficient forms of heating there's another reason for fuel poverty and that's the quality of housing stock and it's value many of the homes in rural Scotland are stone built story and a half houses they're hard to heat and hard to insulate and we are often told about high prices achieved on the open market for these houses but those are only in the picturesque areas for the most part they have very little value and indeed the cost of insulation is far greater than the finance against the value of the house prices for insulation work in these hard to treat houses are high because only large contractors can jump through all the hoops that are required to become accredited fitters of that insulation and we miss out twice here in rural areas because local companies if they were accredited would spend their income in the local area boosting that economy they would also be cheaper to employ because their workers would be living at home and smaller companies also have fewer overheads it's a very practical solution that the Scottish Government needs to address add to the problem the temperatures in the countryside and we all know from watching weather forecast that they fall way below urban areas there's also less shelter from high winds therefore the need for heat and better insulation is greater Presiding Officer the Scottish Government need to set new targets to eradicate fuel poverty but more importantly they really need to try and achieve this one the target cannot just be a Scottish wide one where treating urban areas becomes the best way of achieving it due to economies of scale it needs to be set in smaller geographical areas where rural solutions are equitable at least if not targeted specifically living in a cold damp home affects our health our ability to learn and our wellbeing this is crucial to all of us and I very much hope that we can set a target to eradicate fuel poverty but this time that the Scottish Government will achieve it I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this important debate and I think that we all agree that in 2016 the standards we'd expect would be at least everyone living in our country would have a warm and comfortable home and therefore it's disappointing we're having this debate again in 2016 given that we'd expect better but that's for a range of complex reasons and I do appreciate the spirit in which Alec Rowley approached the debate in his opening remarks and it's just a shame that it would rather downhill some of the other contributions from the opposition benches I think it's utterly absurd for John Scott backed up by Jackie Baillie and the Labour Benches to lay the blame at the SNP Government for the rise in fuel poverty in Scotland Between 2010 and 2013 energy prices and fuel prices rose at eight times the rate of earnings I'll just repeat that so they're all listening that between 2010 and 2013 energy prices and fuel prices rose at eight times the rate of earnings that period and since then has coincided with the Tory party's austerity budgets where they've been cutting people's benefits and plunging people into poverty so I say to the Tory party it's not the SNP ministers that should be hanging their heads in shames it's every single man or woman on the Tory benches in this Parliament I'll take an intervention Mr Scott The Cabinet Richard Lochhead is used to taking responsibility for the actions of Government as he well knows would he accept that the situation poor as it is as he has described has happened while it's on his Government's watch As many members have made playing there's a number of factors behind fuel poverty in Scotland and many are the responsibility of the UK Government and indeed global energy prices which I have to accept, perhaps not even the UK Government can control and it's really important that when this is affecting real people's lives that we have a really mature and honest debate in this Parliament, this subject and you cannot lay the blame any one political party put particularly the SNP for rising fuel poverty figures over the last few years and I recognise that the backdrop has been record investment in tackling fuel poverty from the SNP Government since 2007 I want to address most of my remarks to the rural situation in Scotland and I do welcome the task forces report that was published and it addressed that very important issue. I do think it's a pity that in over many years particularly in terms of the UK Government dealing with the big such energy providers that we've not given more attention to in this country because that is a real neglected problem in many parts of rural Scotland if you rely on deliveries of heating oil for heating your home or bottles of gas to cook with you don't have the options that people on the mains have in terms of dual fuel discounts or all the special schemes and tariffs and offers that they can benefit from you don't have that if you live in many parts of rural Scotland in particular and that's why I want to argue for a lot more focus on off grid properties both from the Scottish Government but especially from the regulator of GEM and the UK Government in particular and if you look at Caller Gases briefing they sent round members for this debate some of the comments they make is pretty staggering in terms of the UK Government schemes they say they almost completely bypassed the countryside and then it goes on to criticise the way in which energy policy and fuel poverty has been tackled in regards to off grid properties so it's important where address those issues going forward in the case of my own constituency 28 per cent of properties are off grid compared to a national average in Scotland of 18 per cent in Murray we have the additional problems that contribute to fuel poverty and wider poverty we've got a low wage economy in terms of mainland Scotland constituencies so family incomes are being hammered by high fuel costs on the one hand when salaries in Murray are already lower and the debt figure sent round by the step change debt charity I think explain that situation as well with the number of clients with electricity rears or indeed gas rears rising between 2015 and 2016 in the case of gas in 3.6 per cent of clients saying that was a factor to 9.4 per cent of people who are clients of that charity in Murray as well so this is a real issue it's affecting real people in causing debt in our society housing stock of course has been mentioned again if I remember my facts correctly 1 per cent of our housing stock is renewed every year therefore this is again an issue that goes back generations in Scotland the state of our housing stock in Murray we have 8 per cent of homes with a poor national home energy rating which is way above the national average of 3 per cent and indeed 44 per cent of properties have a rating of below 5.5 or 5 on the scale which compares to 25 per cent so again the state of the housing stock in Murray is a particular problem and that does bring challenges as many members have said in terms of energy efficiency measures but we have to give a lot more attention to these issues I see that I'm running out of time I just want to mention one issue that perhaps has not been raised so far and that's the issue as I call it of energy justice we are an energy rich country in Scotland if you look at Murray for instance we have umpteen wind farms just now with the transmission lines the SSE are putting in place towards the black hillic substation at Keith and therefore the people of Murray are watching all this energy bypassing their homes or indeed being produced near their homes and not necessarily filling the benefit it must be galling if you live near a renewable energy project or any energy source but you're living in fuel poverty but you're watching this energy being developed near doorstep or being transported past your home surely we can find a way in Scotland of making sure that people benefit from having all this energy resource in their own doorstep we do talk about community benefit from renewable energy resource projects I would like to see some of that used for micro energy plans or for tackling fuel poverty and introducing schemes in our rural areas where much of the energy is being produced I think that's something where Scottish ministers could contribute I'd like to see a Scottish national energy company owned by the public and using the money to reinvest in other energy projects to get people out of fuel poverty so I think that there are some practical things we could do in this country to address those but we absolutely have to eradicate fuel poverty in Scotland Thank you very much we have to winding up speeches Colin Mark Ruskell to wind up for the Green Party six minutes please Mr Ruskell Thank you, Presiding Officer can I thank Labour for bringing forth this important topic for debate largely I mean I think the fact that we've got add-on amendments rather than delete amendments I think is important and can I say now again that the Greens will be supporting all amendments when it comes to decision time tonight and I would urge all parties to do the same because voting against one amendment will simply weaken the approach of others and the Labour motion scopes out well the nature of the problem and the multiple approaches that are required to tackle fuel poverty and I agree with Alex Rowley that we need to go down into standards in the private sector we do as Mark Griffin has already spoken about need to revive the Warm Homes Act we need to see a transformation in the way that energy is generated and controlled in Denmark for example a country which has a fuel poverty rate of only 4% compared to our 30% a lot of their district heating schemes are controlled by local councils now we all agree on the need for a new target to reduce quickly Jackie Baillie and a plan for fuel poverty eradication but Labour is going to fail to ask for the resources to achieve this unless they vote for the Green amendment tonight now Labour set the fuel poverty target in 2001 and I respect that but fuel poverty shot up under their watch and under every other government's watch since then rhetoric should be met with budgets and action Labour have repeatedly called the SNP out for words but little action against our budget asked today will have the same effect I can turn to the SNP amendment which identifies the on-going consideration the government is bringing to the eradication strategy and the two very important reports that we've had reporting to it and indeed the target and I acknowledge the seriousness which the minister is approaching this and also appreciate his statement that he's not going to define fuel poverty away and a number of SNP members have talked about the collaborative approach including the minister that is required and I think that collaborative approach needs to be brought to the heart of government minister because I back energy action Scotland's call for a cross-departmental group within government that can actually start looking at the savings that we can make through tackling fuel poverty including in the area of health which I think was passionately exemplified by John Scott's contribution now the Tory amendment sets out the important objective we share of getting our national housing stock up to category C by 2025 and Adam Tomkins is right to point out that a clear target can lead to transformative change but it can only be achieved if we're prepared to make those clear budget decisions when they come to this chamber so I would ask the Tories to back the principle tonight of increased budget because the Green amendment simply states the reality that current budget allocations will not be enough to deliver Labour's approach and the Tory stated objective so I hope we can settle on the scale of ambition that is needed and support all amendments at decision time now we've heard a number of contributions from members about the impact of fuel poverty and I think Alex Rowley mentioned a very moving example of a family in five spending about a quarter on fuel and we've had examples from around the chamber I'd like to turn to my own community where there are large pockets of deprivation where people live in old stone properties off the gas grid social tenants have benefited from internal insulation measures through the eco programme over time but that has left behind many low income owner occupiers and those tenants in the private sector who are struggling with fuel bills and many of these families are on pre-payment metres which, as Alex Cole-Hamilton said have a voracious appetite and many of these families are also heating their homes with open coal fires open coal fires in the 21st century and they're put off and they're put off by the complexity and the hassle factor created by a lot of the confusing array of schemes that we have we also have the irony in our community that we have a distillery right in the heart which is belting out waste heat 24-7 so it's clear that we need an absolute step change to how we tackle fuel poverty one that responds to the circumstances of individual households because falling into fuel poverty means that you become more vulnerable to the causes of it poor mental and physical health inability to find work cramped living conditions affecting educational attainment families spiral of poverty continues to tackle that so let me move briefly to the practical action that we can take more resource would enable a co-ordinated street-by-street retrofitting programme through the SEAP programme taking a street-by-street approach reduces the hassle, reduces the costs for example in areas of tenant buildings the cost of setting up scaffolding would be incurred only once and a street-by-street approach could also help areas of historic properties that fit the planning rules is high in cost a new approach to building maintenance could deliver affordable warmth this could include new legislation to facilitate common repairs enhancing the role of home reports and include in mandatory energy efficiency measures in the sale of properties with a clear price tag attached the Scotland acts devolved new powers to Scottish ministers determine how funds from the UK Government's energy company obligation are targeted in areas that must take action to promote insulation measures and connections to district heating schemes particular areas of low income but we can be much bolder in tackling rising fuel bills by pushing the limits of Scotland's newly devolved powers to create a Scottish fuel poverty scheme paid into by those who make the greatest profits from energy sales to support those most struggling to heat their homes Presiding Officer No, you must stop now to close for the Conservative Party six minutes please Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer this has been a useful debate and I also thank Labour for bringing it can I particularly thank Alec Rowley and Jackie Baillie for their considered contributions fuel poverty affects a third of households in Scotland and a higher proportion of households are in fuel poverty here in the UK as a whole 35% as opposed to 15% there is an issue and it needs to be tackled we're all agreed on that but the SNP has dragged its feet those percentages could be much better than they are or at least we could be further down the road in improving matters as our amendment and Adam Tomkins have made plain we need to set a clear target to achieve transformational change I said the SNP has dragged its feet they've had the power since 2009 when the Climate Change Act came into force to do something for instance in the private rented sector highlighted by Alec Rowley but instead of acting they've done nothing short of promising a consultation meanwhile things are powering ahead south of the border Kevin Stewart asked for ideas so perhaps he should look at what's happening in England as from the 1st of April 2018 there will be a requirement for any properties in the private rented sector to normally have a minimum energy performance rating the regulations will come into force for new lets and renewals of tendencies with effect from then and for all existing tendencies from the 1st of April 2020 that goes far further than anything we see here it will be unlawful to rent a property which breaches the requirement for a minimum rating unless there's an applicable exemption and there'll be a civil penalty of up to £4,000 for breaches there are also separate regulations which were effective from April this year under which a tenant can apply for consent and carry out energy efficiency improvements in private rented properties there's some ideas for Mr Stewart now the Scottish Government should look at these measures when it's drawing up its own warm homes bill Kevin Stewart is keen on making interventions and I'll certainly take one from him if he wants to tell us when we're going to see that bill no Mr Stewart has responded we'll see that bill next year and I'm quite sure that the cabinet secretary will add to that when she comes to her summing up next year fantastic, we've got a straight answer from Kevin Stewart, there's a first as Adam Tomkins said capital investment will be required it leads to jobs and skills I've seen in my constituency some of the great work being done in the field of energy efficiency on visits to Scottish Power's training centre in Hamilton and South Lanarkshire College in East Kilbride but I'd happily take up Claire Adamson's offer of a visit to Ravenscraig if that's still on jolly good if she does we would like to see the energy efficiency budget line gradually reach 10 per cent of the capital budget allocations this means capital infrastructure investment rising from this year's £80 million to £340 million by 2020-21 we also think winter fuel payments and cold weather payments should be protected when they're devolved to the Scottish Parliament if we keep dragging our feet then that leads to real problems for the people we're all here to serve for example cold homes can lead to respiratory and cardiovascular problems Alison Harrison Annie Wells both mentioned this every one degree drop in mean temperature below 5 degrees sees GP consultations for respiratory tract infections increased by almost 20 per cent and John Scott referred to that in the 21st century it's inconceivable that the most vulnerable members of society are at the mercy of cold weather were duty bound to stop delaying and take action now research by the existing homes alliance have found that there are one and a half million cold homes in Scotland one and a half million in 2050 more than 80 per cent of the existing housing stock will still be a home to a family showing that focusing on new housing alone will not solve Scotland's housing issues now, Alec Rowley mentioned tariffs I'm glad he did it is the fact that there is only one company that does not charge standing charges only one and that should be tackled in conclusion I repeat the observation that fuel poverty is too widespread in Scotland for us to carry on as normal current strategies have failed we've called for a transformational change focusing on energy efficiency and performance that does require significant capital spend but half measures will not do not if the fuel poverty strategic working groups ambition is to be realised thank you very much to close for the Government secretary seven minutes please thank you very much this has been a good debate at times it's been challenging at times it has been feisty but as Mark Ruskell reflected it has of course been a mature debate and I do want to mention Mark Griffin who gave a particularly well informed speech I do have to confess that the significance of the Toblerone somewhat passed me by on a far more serious note I do want to start by focusing on what it is that we actually agree on so we all agree that we're in the business of eradicating fuel poverty because fuel poverty and eradication of fuel poverty is absolutely crucial to making Scotland a fairer country we all agree that it's scandalous that we have fuel poverty in a resource rich country as Richard Lochhead reflected everyone agrees in the importance of collaboration across this chamber but collaboration amongst government at every level with the social enterprise sector with the third sector with housing associations with landlords with the private rented sector and of course with energy companies themselves and we're all agreed we're all have an absolute commitment to a warm homes bill for the government we want to introduce a warm homes bill in 1718 a year 2 of the parliamentary cycle and that bill has to have statutory targets and statutory targets to end fuel poverty so I suppose to answer Jackie Baillie's question very directly we're all indeed reset the target and in acknowledging honestly that the target won't be met this year that is not the same as abandoning our ambition to eradicate fuel poverty because this bill and this is where we'll have to learn from the past this bill will have to be underpinned by the right strategy and when we publish our draft strategy which will include draft proposals on timescales and other targets and actions that need to be fleshed out and discussed and debated and tested and discussed because we know that fuel poverty in some areas of Scotland is as high as 70% so there is a lot of work to do and the purpose of Mr Stewart outlining honestly and transparently that sequence of events about using the learning from the expert groups to inform our definition to inform targets to inform our strategy to inform our bill on the next day we have the very best possible warm homes bill Ms Bailey The cabinet secretary will understand that the minister was asked twice very clearly to suggest that he was resetting the fuel poverty target to end fuel poverty not creating a new target that could simply be reducing it by half in the next 50 years which would frankly be unacceptable I am very keen to hear the cabinet secretary say that your ambition is to end fuel poverty you will be resetting the target to do exactly that I think for once me and Ms Bailey are at one as she is at one with Mr Stewart it is uncharacteristic for me to be more brief than my colleagues and to be more succinct than my colleagues but I am trying very hard Ms Bailey just for you absolute clarity and I am glad that Ms Bailey is saying just say yes but I do believe that the scrutiny and the debate and the involvement of Parliament in all our stakeholders is absolutely important as we go forward and I suppose I do say this with respect if any of this was easy the job would have been done by previous Governments and indeed previous ministers and I think as Annie Wells says that nothing is actually in control of this Government or indeed the UK Government and I want to touch upon the cost of fuel because that indeed has hampered progress that's not an excuse it is a statement of fact because if fuel had risen in line with inflation between 2002 and 2014 fuel poverty in 2014 would be 9.5% as opposed to 35% it would be clear 9.5% would not be good enough either it still would be too high and I want to say to Alex Cole-Hamilton we won't be casting aside the advice that's why we do want to consider fully the 100 recommendations from the two working groups including a working group and the overall strategy and indeed the working group findings that was very focused on tackling rural fuel poverty strategic working group in the report said something that I think all politicians should reflect upon and it is a particularly hard reflection for government but the working group said that high levels of fuel poverty exist despite commendable investment by the Government I for one minute I'm not demuring from the importance of investment and of course the government will be bringing forward its draft budget in mid December but that tells me that it's not just about the level of resource it is the actions that underpin that resource it is about what we do with that resource and that there is something far more sophisticated than the allocation of money I don't want anyone to misinterpret my comments I am not demuring from the importance of investment either in terms of individuals in terms of eradicating fuel poverty indeed in terms of our economy but the big lesson from the two working group reports is that despite investing more than any other government we have still not eradicated fuel poverty so we do have to take a bit of time to learn the lessons from past strategies from past failings across Governments and across administrations because we will have to do something far more than just reset a target it will be the action and the delivery plan that underpins those targets and for me in particular who leads in the social justice portfolio it's also about how we reach the poorest in our society and I know we've touched upon the definition of fuel poverty and Matt Ruskell is absolutely right no one can define away the problem but I was struck by the fact that 42 per cent of those who are fuel poor are also income poor and the issue there for me is not that 58 per cent of fuel poor are not also income poor it's that the definition of what is fuel poor is according to the working groups is impeding our progress to target resources more effectively so indeed I do want statutory targets I want legislation that underpins action that recognises the action we need to take on particularly the private rented sector and indeed for private owners as well, thank you very much I call on Pauline McNeill to oppose for Labour and I'll make Neil to 559 poor 59, I'm sorry she's done my glasses on and she would love to listen to you all that time but it's 459 for the voices of thank you Presiding Officer can I begin by thanking all the members and the ministers for their valuable contributions to Labour's debate this afternoon Living in Scotland means that everyone has to heat their home in the winter months and these days sometimes in the summer months too but today 34 per cent of Scottish households are in fuel poverty we are nowhere near the targets set by the act of Parliament in 2001 845,000 households are still in fuel poverty harsh winters kill up to 30 per cent of those winter deaths are caused by cold homes so the Labour motion is a wake-up call and it's meant to be a wake-up call to the Scottish Government that they must take urgent action now to reset the statutory target I welcome what Angela Constance has said this evening in the debate but I think a lot of time might have been saved if there had been clear lines from Kevin Stewart in his opening speech that it was the Government's priority at the sunset of these statutory targets which have not been met that new ones would coincide with the falling of those targets but yes I confirm that Labour has said will collaborate with the Government on achieving any new target set but only the Scottish Government can act here Energy Action Scotland say the target must be realistic but it must be set the minister said in his opening speech that he recognises the scale of the challenge and I want to affirm commitment from the Government that redefining fuel poverty is a challenge in any way and I welcome what Andy Wightman said about focusing on poor households we need to see what these statutory targets are going to be we need to see them soon and those who rely on this Parliament to see that we are taking this matter seriously need to see them as a matter of urgency too I have to expect some concern that there isn't any attempt to explain why the Government weren't prepared for this knowing that the targets would actually fall this month but you will get the full co-operation of the Labour benches on this until it is properly resolved and properly resolved Extreme poverty accounts for almost extreme fuel poverty accounts for almost 10 per cent of those figures in rural areas as we've heard from Rhoda Grant, Richard Lochhead and others fuel poverty is probably high at 50 per cent we know that there are special reasons for that but it has to be said that almost after 10 years in charge the Parliament has been willing to support the Government on this they need to recognise that they need to be more ambitious they need to put the resources to this important policy and they must be more determined to meet any new targets as Ruth Maguire and others have said to meet your home adequately and to run basic appliances without having to consider how you're going to pay for it is a basic necessity as Mark Griffin said no family should have to choose between heating and eating but many who ever do as Alec Rowley said in his opening speech progress has been made and that must be recognised too but with a new focus on the private rented sector we believe needs more attention and should be included in any new statutory targets but the consequences of not meeting those targets are clearly stark we've heard that 60 per cent of single pensioners are fuel poor poor a staggering 29 per cent of adults of working age are fuel poor and those with children stands at almost 20 per cent the commitment that we've had from the SNP Government to spend £103 million to install measures of 14,000 homes will help just under 2 per cent of those in fuel poverty it is not enough it is not ambitious enough and we call on the Government to be more ambitious than this it has to be said that there are many factors why the targets were not reached but it is wrong only to blame the UK Government without taking some responsibility yourselves but I do agree that it's not just about money it is clearly about identifying a strategy where the targets are closely worked in to the work that needs to be done but being poor comes at a cost as we've heard the poorest households are locked out of the best deals as Adam Tomkins talked about the best bank accounts borrowing rates the best energy target tariffs are all reserved for people who are in a position to shop around even if you don't have a clean credit file or access to the internet you can expect to pay more for almost everything actual figures indicate that prepayment users pay more than anyone else not paying by direct debit by an average of £150 being worse off a year I surely will Angela Constance I just wonder if Ms McNeill would acknowledge the actions that are contained in the fairer Scotland action plan that are specifically targeted at tackling the poverty premium including this Government leading an energy summit with big energy companies later on this year Pauline McNeill I'm happy to recognise that fact but the public are being seriously shortchanged and I think some other speakers spoke about this and it has to be almost as well as a backdrop to this to be Recent reports show that profit margins far from the 4% claimed by the industry I think Graham Simpson talked about are actually up to 28% of profit margins energy companies, the big six are a major power in Britain dictating what we pay for our energy with little accountability Tariffs are too complex and this has led to a distress in suppliers I do and I have supported price caps on energy prices or at least wider price controls but I wanted to introduce you if you haven't heard of a man called Martin Cave from the Competition Marketing Authority the only dissenting voice in the recent report by the Competition Marketing Authority Watchdog in 2014 there was an investigation into prices energy companies are charging the interim report stated that this was to the tune of £1.7 billion a year this is mainly due to the fact that 70% of customers are on standard variable tariffs far more expensive than other tariffs I wanted to temporarily cap those prices for those customers but through heavy lobbying they withdrew this in favour of a much weaker provision to create a list of customers on these rates so that competitor companies can target them I'm pleased to say that Martin Cave would not put his name to this final report in conclusion we look forward to the Government announcing the refreshed statutory targets to reduce full poverty in Scotland no one should have to choose between eating and heating thank you very much that concludes the debate on supporting local communities it is now time to move on to the next item of business the next item of business is consideration of business motion 2516 in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick on behalf of the parliamentary bureau setting out a business programme I would ask any member who wishes to speak against this motion to press a request-to-speak button now I call on Jo Fitzpatrick to move motion 2516 firmly moved no member has asked to speak against the motion therefore I will now put the question to the chamber the question is that motion 2516 in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick be agreed are we all agreed the motion is therefore agreed the next item of business is consideration of six parliamentary bureau motions I ask Jo Fitzpatrick to move on block motions 2412 to 2414 and 2513 to 2515 on approval of SSIs moved the question on this motion will be put at decision time to which we now come there are five questions to be put as a result of today's business the first question is that amendment 2504.3 in the name of Angela Constance which seeks to amend motion number 2504 in the name of Alex Rowley on supporting local communities be agreed are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote an amendment number 2504.3 in the name of Angela Constance is yes 93 no 29 and there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore agreed the next question is that amendment 2504.1 in the name of Adam Tomkins which seeks to amend motion number 2504 in the name of Alex Rowley on supporting local communities be agreed are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote an amendment number 2504.1 in the name of Adam Tomkins is yes 39 no 84 and there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore not agreed the next question is that amendment 2504.2 in the name of Andy Wightman which seeks to amend motion number 2504 in the name of Alex Rowley on supporting local communities be agreed are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote an amendment number 2504.2 in the name of Andy Wightman is yes 10 no 113 there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore not agreed the next question is that motion 2504 in the name of Alex Rowley as amended on supporting local communities be agreed are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote an motion 2504 in the name of Alex Rowley is yes 94 no 29 and there were no abstentions the motion as amended is therefore agreed I propose to ask a single question on Parliamentary Bureau motions 2412 to 2414 and 2513 to 2515 if any member objects to a single question being put please say so now no member has objected therefore the question is that motions 2412 to 2414 and 2513 to 2515 in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick be agreed are we all agreed the motion is therefore agreed that concludes decision time we will now move to members business please those leaving the chamber do so quickly and quietly