 Well, we're all here good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to have you here I think we have an interesting discussion ahead of us this Session is being recorded for television. So for about two or three times I'll announce a break which for us will be very brief 30 seconds But it's for eventual insertion of commercials in there It's for global news of Brazil that will have a program with this discussion As I said, we have a promising discussion with These gentlemen here who are gonna help us understand what's going on with the bricks We had a similar meeting similar discussion last year When the big question was are the bricks going through a mid-life crisis and The conclusion was that they were going through a mid-life crisis And the forecast was that things were going to improve soon Well that forecast was just as bad as my own forecast that Brazil was gonna win the World Cup So I won't say much about that Now we think that the mid-life crisis is over, but the question that many people ask is is it Paralysis are we reaching a time for retirement of the bricks? Just a couple of weeks ago the creator of the bricks John Jim O'Neill the economist the British economist said that When he created the acronym he made certain assumptions about the countries and how they would perform And he writes now China is the the only one to have either met or possibly slightly surpassed my Expectations he wrote it that he was disappointed with the Brazil Russia in India Although hopeful with the recent signs from India indeed indeed India is a hopeful Exception leave having grown five and a half percent last year expected to pass seven percent this year It has a new government under Narendra Modi seen as a reformist More market oriented Difference with his predecessor that seemed to be more concentrated on state role in the in the economy and Minister of Finance here Avron Jaitley is here with us part of the new team Brazil also has a new government, which is the same old government under President Dilma Rousseff But with a new team in the economic area It's the team is led by an orthodox economist from the Chicago school Working for a government of the left An odd combination has to tackle economic stagnation with growth expected to reach only around half a percent this year Marcelo Neri here with us is the new Minister of Strategic Affairs in Brazil South Africa also has a new government a New old government with Jacob Zuma re-elected a few months ago and his party the African National Congress Retaining power in Parliament The economy is at the slow speed of one and a half percent growth register last year Minister of Finance Moosa Nanny is here to help us understand what's happening with South Africa China is growing China is always growing a Group 7.4 percent last year not bad for any other country. They will be having a party But for China it's kind of strange to be growing at a little bit more than half of what you used to in recent years With that is that the new normal that Chinese president talks about We'll hear from professor Justin lean from Beijing University Russia well Russia we have to check the price of oil today But at around half of what it was a year ago. It does not provide encouraging news To an economy so heavily dependent on oil and gas Economic sanctions adopted by the West in response to Russia's action in the Ukraine have only added to the difficulties the countries in recession expected to Grow at a net have a negative growth of GDP this year of 3% according to I'm I'm at figures a few days ago Alex say good thing is here. He's a former Minister Finance Minister from 2007 to 2011 is now at st. Petersburg State University So this is a brief summary About difficulties with the bricks for sure the question is are these difficulties just a phase? In order to move away from this and get into Growth Investments will be required to pump the economies of all the countries. Where will these investments come from and where will they go? The panel may give us some Directions and as I mentioned the role of the investors Perhaps we should hear first from someone who could be seen as a major international investors Carlos Goss is a leader of an important automotive industry Constantly looking at all these economies and having to decide where it's worth putting its money Not hot money like in the financial markets that can get out quick when you establish an industry. You got to think long term Carlos Goss is a Brazilian by birth, but very international in his job as chairman and CEO of the Renault-Nissan alliance And perhaps we can start with you Are you discouraged by the poor economic performance of the brick countries? Do you see Encouraging signs of near long-term perspectives Well, I am not discouraged. I'm disappointed with some of them. I must admit obviously We are big investors in all these countries We think the potential of these countries is very strong and we still believe even though there are some short-term adjustments that are taking place Particularly, you know mentioning Brazil and Russia Presently it was India last year or in the last couple of years But the potential is here We believe in the potential as you said the car industry invest not in function of the next two years But in the next 10 to 15 years because these are major investments that usually when you make the decision You start to see the results three or four years after you've made the decision and it's going to be lasting so China as you said we're big investor in China China has always delivered on the short term and will continue to deliver So we feel very good about what's going on in China India we believe a lot into the potential of India again some disappointment In the recent past, but again absolutely no giving up on the potential of India and the perspective of 2015 is very positive Brazil has a huge potential and I would say The the disappointment come from the fact that there is such a discrepancy between the present performance of the economy in Brazil and the potential we see we see in Brazil and Russia we are in the same situation and Frankly what that mean the big question about Russia is how to get out of this hole that mean we know that we are today in a situation which is very difficult and What we would like is to try to understand What is the exit strategy from the present at the present situation? This is where we are but we continue to invest in all the countries which mean there is absolutely no Retreat from any one of them because we consider that there is no future Well, you mentioned Russia that being in the in a hole and I would ask Mr. Kudrin next to you When you consider that Russia is in recession the ruble has to last 40% of its value Inflation is up Capital flight is intense It is indeed a hole as Carla Kozner just said how do you get out of that hole? Thank you very much for your question I'm going to speak in Russian I would like to start off Not only with the economics. I Recall I remember how the bricks was formed and shaped and It's not only the idea of an outstanding Economist O'Neill and leaders of the country. They also were favorable of this idea and In Six they had a summit in the same Peter Peter's work. I Participated in that summit. I accompanied my president and I think I think that bricks and as Union of clothes Countries who are clothes which are close to each other in spirit It goes beyond the statistics of the successes that we had in the previous year years The idea actually was that these countries have long-term potential Not related to specific economic cycle when you have ups and downs huge potential of these countries in terms of using the possibilities human capital resources to increase their economic development and to increase their GDP per capita But they are very close in terms of their interest in the world economy. It is a group of countries that Want to protect the interests of the developing markets emerging markets so that their voices could be heard in major decisions in trade and development and other political issues as minister of finance finances 11 years and the 11 years part of the managing board of the IMF All the ministers of finances of bricks get together before the annual meeting of the IMF or before the G20 they get together and define their common position during this summits as Leaders of the country they get together before the next G20 meeting they coordinate their positions their positions are close The second point that I would like to raise Bricks countries It's about 27 27 percent in the global GDP close to European one But in terms of IMF Europe has 32 percent of the votes and Bricks countries 11 percent so emerging markets underpreciated under Appreciated in the key financial institution of the world where they take decisions to support Bricks countries and other developing countries and this situation Not in tune anymore with the status of these countries their role and in the world That's why a decision was taken to redistribute these quotas in favor of the emerging markets and and The redistribution actually was affected a symbolic one China from five to six Point thirty nine percent their share a Simple one, but very important that means that more attention will be paid to the voice of these countries and But the United States didn't approve this decision the Congress this didn't approve this decision So we have a new choice. I mean Bricks countries To trust our destiny to the IMF where they have not enough shares of votes Or to create a parallel institutions for development and the recent decisions of the Bricks countries to set up the development Bank with a capital of hundred billion dollars and Hundred billion dollars in terms of the reserve of the currencies of these countries. This is an answer An answer that Institutions are being created which will have more trust on the part of these countries That's why Bricks today. It's not only statistics of economic growth. It's also it's also politics and there it is true that Together those factors are important, but Brick countries exist individually as well and Individually a lot of the countries are having serious trouble and in specific case of Russia It's a very difficult moment for the Russian economy. Well, I limit myself to the economy. It's a difficult moment for Russia overall But as Karloff Gosman mentioned the whole that the Russia is in you know, that's specifically How does Russia get out of that rope that the whole that It's all making in many ways. Thank you Three years ago. I love the government nevertheless, I can voice my view Russia It's 11% the our Indebtedness compared to the GDP one of the low straights in the world and This is a huge foundation strong foundation not to have defaults and problems with the indebtedness 400 billion dollars in gold reserves in Russia 190 billions this is the reserve of the government the government has good reserves today to secure the transitional period to Period to transition to another level of prices. I always considered that hundred dollars per barrel It's an artificial price Lower than $80 is maybe $60 that's the realistic prices And Russia should learn how to live in moderate prices in the world of moderate prices and the reserve would allow to transfer to this moderate level of Prices and and it's good that we can see the real prices and take them as a reference and not the prices which were due to some reasons at temporary in their nature and Didn't show the real perspectives for Russia, but in Russia we have other problems and structural problems and and all our countries grow slowly and Because we are now at the stage of a new period of structural reforms the old models has already worked and and as developing economies we should always be aware of what is going on and Push for reforms Russia unfortunately didn't do it and now it has to do it under less Good conditions and maybe three four percent this year the drop on Last year we had the growth 1.5 percent. This is a serious signal that we should launch the reforms one or two years will be required to move into the area of Gradual growth and the the evolution of the ruble two reasons are sanctions and the drop in oil prices Basically the impact of the same so double blow for Russia the currency blow. That's why this plummeting exchange rates and Also the sanctions as I mentioned before and this is a geopolitical reasons reason It is how somehow related to the fact that Russia wanted somehow to position itself differently among its neighbors and it is not satisfied How the world defines the destiny of Russia and neighboring countries? So this is a certain way of payment for what Russia is doing I don't want to dwell into details places and minuses there are pluses and and minuses but They present the president of Russia believe that they we have to go through this difficulty So that to confirm our new role in the world Thank you. You mentioned the need to Reform that Russia didn't do it soon enough and That takes me to Marcelo Neri current Minister of Brazil well The new government of Brazil, which is the old government of Brazil with the new new economic command is trying do economic reforms but then you have a finance minister whose economic thinking and Ideology contradicts completely what the government has been fault Should we be preparing ourselves for a divorce soon? I believe you know We are actually doing what we did in 2003 in the sense I think Brazil is following what you may call a middle path you have a redistribution aspect Brazil is the only big countries that were inequality fell and fell sharply since 2001 and And but also has a pro-market strategy. So it's not only social It's a combination of both and I think with these new economic team. We are we are following the Same strategy we followed before I think maybe we diverge a little bit from the world a lot from the middle path and I think we are going back to it and We have in our advantage the fact that we can give a Confidence shock in the in the economy. That's our attempt and I think that Minister Levy Symbolizes this confidence shock and in a way the polarization that exists in Brazilian society It was very clear for instance in the last election. It's a bit artificial in a sense that you know objective Indicators of polarization in Brazil polarization of income of education has never been so small But polarization of ideas may be and I think the government of Brazil today incorporates, you know a wide-range, you know, a Chicago person from Chicago the one of the best economies you can get and Also the social concerns. So I see if I think it's a very good Think a very brave and a good attempt to Reestablish the middle path if my Chinese colleague excuse me for using these metaphor and But I think no Brazil you may say well Brazil is not doing so well. I agree with you GDP is growing very very slow 0.8 GDP per capita in the last 2012-13-14 will be worse, but people's income per capita real income despite of all this Slowdown has been growing at five point five percent a year per capita income We're gonna have to do adjustments Our unemployment rate is quite low now So it's a good time in a sense to do adjustments and I think we need them Reforms is starting with a fiscal adjustment and a confidence shock All right a confidence shock in Brazil and With slow growth well, South Africa is growing a little bit better than Brazil, but still very low International standards it's the richest economy continent although Nigeria is trying to catch up quick and The IMF has just warned South Africa that it The country needs to tackle structural problems seriously And your own Chamber of Commerce declared a few days ago that an apathetic approach to the economic challenge has led to constrain the environment The South Africa finds itself in Quite a challenge, Mr. Nen, isn't it? How do you sort that out? indeed quite a challenge and I would First one to say that it is perhaps precisely because of that reason that we find ourselves in in this Collective of the BRICS countries countries that to some extent confront similar challenges But also as a voice of the emerging markets. I think it is an important Forum for us to be able to tackle some of these challenges collectively and collaboratively as a country And for the first time South Africa has put before its citizens comprehensive plan our vision 2030 which has got all the elements of a country that is committed to addressing the structural challenges and Putting in place the reforms that the Chamber is calling for and We are working very closely with the private sector to address these challenges and We now have embarked on a process where there are working groups between government and the private sector there are three key elements of the National development plan that are premised on two key ones of Reducing the cost of doing business whilst Reducing the cost of living for our citizens and those three elements are those that we would want to create an environment where We have a private sector that is able to create an environment for the private sector to thrive But also we want to create a Professional public service that would deliver the services to our people in order to redress Our job to address our challenges But also we want an active citizenry that is also going to hold the Administration accountable We've made some strides as you say a correctly point out this government. It's a new term It's a new administration, but it's a new term of our president and he's been driving a serious A Developmental agenda which is anchored on our a massive infrastructure all out. Does it involve a cut in government expenses? fiscal consolidation as I said when we tabled our medium-temperature policy statement is Actually inevitable. This is the time for fiscal consolidation. We have been able to Apply a counter-cyclical fiscal policy for the past few years whilst we were trying to expand our social social expenditure, but we have reached a point where we actually need to consolidate our Finances and that is what we're doing for a period of two years and beyond the two years we will have built adequate fiscal space in order for us to Proceed with our agenda, but this does not necessarily mean a cut in expenditure but a cut in growth of our expenditure and That we've put a plan before the nation and we actually have got practical Areas where we have identified as areas Where we would not compromise and continue roll out our infrastructure continue to protect the poor and ensure that the economy Continues to benefit from our interventions In the case of India minister Jaitley your new prime minister Not Andrew Modi presents himself as a reformist a market-oriented leader But he faced a tradition in India since independence of heavy reliance on the state Strong resistance for a bureaucracy to change that What chance do you think he has of to overcome that? tradition of state well, I think the Most important change that has taken place in India is not merely a political change of government There's a change of mindset And there's a huge amount of popular support Particularly in the backdrop of slowdown in the last two years that we must grow and There is a fair amount of clarity about the roadmap which is required for that group and Therefore, I don't think there is any resistance as far as the bureaucracy in India is concerned to the reform process The bureaucracy has long been made a whipping boy for it I think our challenge is we know the roadmap. We know the steps which have to be taken The government has embarked on those steps quite expeditiously but there's a lot of distance we have to cover and I think there is absolute clarity that India needs To generate its domestic investment. It needs global investment. It needs Radically to improve its own infrastructure It needs to Move up its manufacturing So even if this year we in 2015 we end with about five and a half percent growth rate Which is okay by global standards, but India is still not smiling at those growth rates week by our standards, we think it's much below our real capacities And our target is to go back to the eight percent nine percent growth rates Which are more natural to India and I think we have the potential to do that the manner in which the government is going there is The next year promises to be much better. We'll get into the six and a half percent or so Growth rate leaks and I think that's where the takeoff will start currently Not only have we changed the mood and the attitude with all these decisions India we had fallen off the global radar for the last two years. I Think the world has started showing anxiety and curiosity about India once again The people are looking at us and it's really for us in the government and the policymakers in India to Consolidate on that game You've minister J. Lee has mentioned eight nine percent is kind of a natural rate of growth for for India makes me think of China We associated natural growth of China at least 12 percent now It's at 7.4 percent. You know everybody would be celebrating that but not China Is this what the Chinese president calls the new normal? Does it It will be the rate of we should expect in the coming years. Did it have to be that way? Did it have to slow down? First I'd like to correct one statement you met Please expect China to grow at 12 percent 13 percent Yes, China achieved that a few years in the past 36 years But whenever China reached 12 percent 13 percent China encountered high inflation certainly those kind of growth rate was not sustainable and in the past 36 years the average growth rate in China indeed Was 9.7% Continuously for 36 years That was a miracle in human history already But certainly we cannot expect those kind of two-digit growth rate continuously in the coming years for several reason China now is already the second largest economy measured by market exchange rate But if we measure the economic size by appreciation popularity China overtook the US last year to be the largest economy in the whole world With this size you cannot expect those kind of 9.8 percent 9.7 percent can continues but I do believe China still has the potential to grow at 8 percent 8 percent per year in the coming decades But that is a potential growth rate depends on the domestic and international economic situations Because we know for every country to grow There are three drivers export investment and consumption but for export I expect the in our prospect is still going to be quite subdued because high-income country have not fully recovered from a 2008 crisis Eurozone Japan are still in a mode of close to registration US seem to recover but the foundation is not as strong because the level participation rate in US is still very low and US has not Enjoyed a six or seven percent rebound of the crisis yet so under the kind of situation I think export in the coming years cannot be a driver for the growth and China needs to rely more on the domestic sources of growth That is investment and a consumption and for that I think that China should be able to use its strong position for investment and opportunity for investment Just like yesterday the prime minister because I mentioned as a middle-income country China still has good opportunity for investment in industrial upgrading technological innovation China also has a scope for further improvement in infrastructure and also for the environmental protection urbanization All those areas are good investment opportunities and I'd like to mention this Distinguished China from the developed country For the developed country Whenever they have a registration slow down in the economy, it's very hard for them to find good investment opportunities but China is a middle-income country China still have huge opportunity for good investment Not only the opportunity for investment China is also in a very good position for making investment because the government debt including the local government and the central government It's only about 40% of the GDP Not as good as our Russian friend, but among the best in the world So the Chinese government can use fiscal expansion counter-seqical intervention to support investment And also the private saving in China is a high is as high as a 50% of GDP So the government can use its money to leverage the private sector investment and also China Has four trillion US dollars a reserve the highest in the whole world and I'd like to say this Distinguished China from many other developing countries Because other developing countries should also have good investment opportunity for investment But they may be constrained by the government's physical position What the private saving or the lack of foreign reserve? China are not constrained in that way. So in a sense that China should be able to maintain regional reasonable level of Investment and with investment we can maintain the employment with an employment You know, then we can maintain the consumption growth in China. So with this I think I'm quite confident China will be able to maintain 7% growth rate in the coming Five years or even decades certainly this is lower than the 9.7% growth rate in the past 36 years But as I say due to the size and its own and the global economy This it will consider be to be one of the highest growth in the whole world and with the size in China even grow it as 7% China will contribute about one percentage point to the global growth rate and there will be at least 25% of the global growth can be even 30% of global growth. So China will continue to be the engine of the growth in the world Thank you very much we'll have a small break now and We'll come back and we'll talk about Kind of a ghost in the machine oil Like I said, this break is not a real break They will eventually put the commercials in here. We can organize ourselves get a glass of water and we'll keep going Okay, we go we start again like I said the Ghost of the machine oil. We're all concerned about The drop in the price of water concern is in the proper words. Some of us are very happy about it But some others are worried I would ask Carlos Gordon as as a leader of the auto industry I'm sure your industry is happy about the fall in the oil prices a Trend that results in cheaper fuel and therefore people will drive more But since we're talking here about near and long-term prospects for investment shouldn't the auto industry me be moving towards Cleaner for you faster than it is doing now to avoid this dependence on oil They that could start again because it's so cheap now. Yeah, well, obviously You give me a great argument to tell you as you know as we are leader in electric cars in the world Obviously my answer is gonna be yes, obviously we have to move much faster. We have to be less dependent on oil even though We're very realistic about the fact for the next 10 to 20 years the auto industry will continue to heavily depend on oil But the alternative fuels are extremely important. You mentioned oil price. It's interesting that last year. There were a lot of debates on energy Nobody has foreseen what's happening today. Nobody. I don't think I've seen any scenario in which the price of oil Are where they are today? So in general the price of all is unpredictable So we don't know where the price of oil is going to be next year or two years down the road We can make assumption, but we don't know how much of truth there are behind the assumption so we are in a position where we have to prepare ourselves for All the hypothesis a very expensive oil or a very cheap oil Which means we need to be in different technologies that would allow us to face the different situation Near the price of oil there is one thing which is certain is Regulations on emissions are getting tougher everywhere. They are getting tougher in China. They're getting tougher in the United States They are getting tougher in Europe and in order to meet the emissions regulations We have to develop the what we call the clean Technologies allowing the cars to be at zero emission or at the very low emission So yes, we have to move faster. We are moving into this direction. I would say Independently of the price of oil, but because the price of oil is so low now Do you think that will hold back those who were not following your example? That's yeah I would take it as more a headwind in front of the development of the Clean technologies, but certainly not is not gonna divert us from these investments Because again first price of oil is unpredictable and second emission regulation are gonna force us to be much more efficient in terms of emissions in in the case of Russia we don't need to Emphasize the fact that the low price of oil. It's pretty much a disaster How much of a disaster for Russia? Oil and gas obviously considering that Russia has not Diversified its economy as much as we all know it should have done many years ago Thank you First of all, I would like to avoid the word disaster. There's no disaster as such As a matter of fact, let me Say it again 0.5 percent growth Against a 3% decline Caused by both the sanctions and the declining oil price Are those two factors that I mentioned earlier, but we understand that this is not take a long time But within the next three to five years, this is gonna pass and Russia will be able to Implement some reforms I would agree with Carlos that Oil prices are unpredictable and we cannot say what the price is going to be in four to five years So I would rather Let me qualify the situation in the following Vocabulary that we are going through a patch of low prices As a result of a number of factors that have affected the current situation in the market particularly as some old producing Countries like Iran Iraq for example, Libya. They Have some free Unutilized capacities and for some time they have been producing less than traditional and early and also there's this shale Not revolutions the word but the yes has been producing a lot of shale gas and shale oil and above all the factors that also have contributed to this decline and also Demand is going down. Also, there are some cycles and as we know, they're electrically driven cars and the hydrogen cars I fully fully supportive of Toyota's initiative that opened the line of the hydrogen Motor cars, so they are trying to now create a market share in this gas Is going to be used gas as natural gas is going to be used more often now as they Source well, so we have terminals and tankers for LNG to produce and transport LNG. So as a matter of fact recently A whole new market has taken shape in terms of LNG I have not mentioned all of the Events that have contributed to this market dynamics, and we don't Do our math correctly? So we cannot predict These volatility is what is going to happen with the old price within the next three years. It may it may go down to 40 Dollars it may go up to 60 or 80 dollars per pound Some say that investments are going to shrink in this sector and that will Trigger an increase in prices and demand will grow and also prices will go up So we let's refrain from making a pro-focus in this. So Russia has to try and adapt itself to This moderate level of all prices. My estimate is between 60 to 80 perhaps. I'm overestimating the price But still I think this is the Russia Magnitude time and of course this will make Russia diversified economy and try to make less focus on all and then try and diversify its economy and pay more attention to other sectors think The case of Brazil the the oil, you know, they're a bit different analysis about the impact of The drop in oil prices in Brazil First of all and as a minister for strategic affairs, you must be thinking long run What it means for Brazil and I if I should add in specifically in the context of what's happening with Petrobras That this gigantic scandal that might hurt the company quite a bit If you put all that plus the drop in the price of oil, what is the final result of this mixture? First the price of oil Fall is a good is good news in the short run for Brazil. We are net importers You know if you take into account derivatives, but giving our investment prospects, especially pre-salt, you know Deep or deep oil that we are exploring You know at this price current price of the barrel. It's It's becoming Not economic feasible So in the long run, but I would say that Brazil is more or less his company. It's you know We certainly have to adapt our investment plans for the future, but it's not bad news necessarily depends on on how you you you set your your path, but what I'm a Bit worried. No, I've been to all all the brick countries in the last Especially 2008 onwards and I was in all these countries. I was stuck in a traffic jam All of them, you know really big traffic jams and you know in Brazil No, people make had an income growth as I said had, you know Formal jobs So do too big conquest? Brazilians made but between these two conquests. There is a nightmare, which is how I move from my home to my job back and forth and So I think we have to devise, you know, because low oil prices means Not only for the environment, but you know time you're gonna consume our time, you know stuck in a traffic jam This is very bad not only for the Economy but also for welfare and you know, I think you're talking about you know, the bricks is Is an idea as you know that Brazil Russia? It's an idea, you know, but if we talk about Brazilians Russians Chinese Indians about the population I think this is the the good news is that you can buy your car You can drive your car, but there is a Composition problem that the bad news is you can buy your car and you can drive your car You can drive your car. This is the same good news is the bad news. That's right But we have for example, we have initiative in Brazil, which is called BRT bus railway Transit which is almost BRT Brazilian transportation, which you know, it's bus on the I know in India you have, you know some of the Brazilian bus big buses and so we have to look after solutions before it comes You know the problem arise and we have already a big traffic problem The disorder thing you just mentioned the comparison with India for India. It's a blessing You see as far as India is concerned We of course have our own exploration but we are still short and therefore Our current account deficits are now more balanced There was a lot of Problem with our oil companies. I think a lot of their problems are being solved And most important our inflation is broadly under control the oil prices were Contributing to it. So with food prices and oil prices. We have a modest level of inflation In the case of South Africa Associated or not not necessarily a direct link, but in terms of energy in terms of What the country needs and energy you're having a serious problem with electricity supplies in South Africa Will that become better or worse with this or a situation? How would that impact South Africa? And if you could describe to us also what this Electricity power failures represent Look the the oil price in details You know come as a bit of a benefit to us, but as you will understand the The full benefit is not passed through on to the consumer because it came at a time when the currency also Was not performing well, but the currency did exactly why we have I mean it just confirmed the correctness of our floating currency regime because If the benefit can't go through to the consumer in in full it means also that in times in of Price rise and fuel it also won't be passed on to the consumer So it serves as a really as a shock absorber and but we've experienced a reduction in the price of Fuel to the tune of about I mean close to 40 percent that has actually helped the consumer in that the disposable income is increased But also that Buffer and the shock absorber has also protected us from the inflation Feed through In terms of our electricity challenges, it is indeed a time for us also to take advantage of this time Accelerate our electricity Build the program we are in the process of building new power plants Which are due to be completed quite soon But at the same time we have identified the need to diversify in our electric energy generation And bring in the private sector Since more than 90% of our energy was actually generated by a state-owned Agency our Scom and now we've opened up for Independent power producers who have actually been able to deliver but in excess of a thousand and megawatts into into the grid We also now are exploring Possibilities of core generation we are at an advanced stage in order to do that I would want to believe that this has presented us with an opportunity to work with the private sector to address our energy Challenge and continue because we in our focus also to connect more households We probably did not support that with a plan also to maintain our Aging Electricity plants, but we are in a situation now where that is receiving attention And we are likely to come out of it. It's a it's a period that has presented challenges to us, but we It's under control I've been monopolizing our guests too much that perhaps there might be a question from the audience that we could we could And I have to contribute to the gentleman here in front My name is Salil Shetty. I'm the secretary general of Amnesty International Obviously, we had conversations mainly on economics, but it's very much linked to the broader questions of stability Now I would say that most countries the BRICS countries have been very skeptical about The way in which Western powers have selectively used human rights and democracy ideas over time for example Going soft on Saudi Arabia, but very hostile when it comes to Iran human rights abuse or even internally domestically Guantanamo Bay You know mass surveillance, etc So now I think as BRICS are getting more powerful at least for the democratically elected BRICS India, South Africa Brazil can the world expect that these countries will start speaking up When you have mass human rights violations like Syria or Sri Lanka? Is that a fair expectation? You're addressing to someone specifically at least India, Brazil, South Africa Start with India India when you Certainly have made a very significant point. We'll keep it in mind BRICS has been Discussing on various platforms And I think as the idea of BRICS take shape The extent on which they are to take political positions with regard to other Countries will certainly be a agenda on the BRICS Indeed as even though BRICS was started as an economic Platform for the five countries it is true and correct that in a number of Instances and engagements we actually have taken collaborative and we are a voice of the emerging markets And in the G20 in in the IMF the World Bank we have worked together and I would imagine going forward again as my colleague from India has indicated that I would imagine that geopolitical issues would also form part of our agenda I believe for Brazil human rights and democracy are key I mean if you want to analyze the country the progress I mean we had two lost decades the 80s and part of the 90s, but we became a democracy We kept this we know it makes social advancements So human rights are essential and I think that perhaps we have to move to a 2.0 agenda in the sense of not only Avoid negative human rights like you know child died before five years of age But you know a child has the right to learn to play etc. And this is a very active agenda in Brazil and interaction with civil society and Because I think the the greatest richness of our country's Numbers is population wise we have 40% of the world population and we are not talking about only numbers But we are talking about you know what these people can achieve. What are their rights? We actually going to hold a host a meeting on population and development in Brasilia with all the Greek countries in about just the week before carnival and this will be a central issue Week before carnival is very symbolic We don't have too much time with the gentleman right here Yeah, thank you. I noticed there are more than one finance minister on a panel So Professor Lin mentioned China has more some physical capacity that it can use just wondering first How realistic can we expect China to expand it? Certainly not over 3% on deficit rate, right and second how what kind of role? Physical policy can play in the future development of BRICS countries as Since in the recent past I think monetary policy has been has been the main show in Countries like China and India and perhaps other BRICS countries Well as I mentioned the Chinese government is a very not strong in its physical position and The government's role is to adopt Contradictory intervention When you have external shock in a demand and so if there's those kind of situation Certainly Chinese government will be in a position to use its physical strengths to support certain investment and consumption and Use that investment consumption to leverage private sector's investment and consumption and for that reason I think that Chinese Economy is very resilient very stable and will still continue to be a strong engine of growth in the world and There's some lesson that we can learn from the Chinese counter-secret intervention Because most of the counter-secret intervention in China in the past were used to make investment in infrastructure which was the bottleneck of growth of the economy and You know that ideas China did in the 1998 Asian financial crisis in 2008 global financial crisis and I'd like to say I'm very happy to see this kind of Ways of counter-secret intervention Recently has been endorsed by the IMAP In the October last year, they have a chapter in the war economic outlook and they Elaborate whenever you have a slowdown in the economy It's the best way to make investment in infrastructure and it's a lesson to learn from China in a past day case It's it's been a very interesting discussion, but believe it or not. We've covered one hour already So our time is exhausted and there's another conference coming after hours So I cannot stretch it any longer. I can only thank our panel here for being here and Your attention here as well And I think we've come up with some the better understanding of the bricks and let's see what happens next year