 something like that. Infections in the machining process, deviation in that alignment means that when you torque really only one pin stack binding at any given time, this is what makes picking possible at its most basic level. Because if you ply a little bit of pressure on that plug, you can do what's called setting a pin. See, we're going to torque this and if you reach in there and start pushing on a pin stack, eventually you'll reach the right height and the pin will clear. The shear line is met and it'll spin. Now granted, there's not a single pin stack in a lock. There's a row of them but because, you notice when it clears, this is holding up the driver. That driver is now out of the equation. That driver pin will not slip back down. You can keep pressure on this plug and go through the stacks one at a time, setting them and opening the lock. It looks a little like this. A tool called a torque wrench is put in and a little bit of pressure is put on the cylinder. A pick tool, in this case we're just doing pin by pin picking, goes in and you reach. Oh, here's one that's binding and we set it and it clicks. Keep reaching, keep reaching and oh, there's another one. I feel it binding. That plug will click a little more and a little more and eventually you can have them all one at a time open. This is not complex. It's not in the same order every time because those imperfections, remember they're not planned. So which pin stack is binding and which order always varies. But the principle is the same. And everyone give me some good will and let's kick it off the right way. Hopefully not have a demonstration effect hit us and let's see what we can do with this lock in front of us here. Is that in pretty good focus? With my crap-tacular webcam set up. What I'm using is called a jack knife set. It's a nice little compact job. I think the Irvine guys have these here this year. Anybody checked out the vendor area? Is Irvine Underground has their spread of tools out there? Yeah, good guys. So this is your basic cheap master lock. You'll find I beat up on master a lot in this talk. Not because they make the worst locks out there but you know they're definitely in the business of it. But honestly I mean we'll cover later a lot of what you know Mark was saying and how many people at the last talk. The ethics of full disclosure. So you realize a lot you know can you really blame companies for making crappy locks if the consumers continually buy them and can you blame the consumers really for buying crappy locks if they don't know they're crappy. Exactly who's to blame is really kind of up in the air but one thing is for sure these aren't really the most skillful locks ever. Yeah so the lock is open now. Thank you. That's as simple as it is literally you just reach in a little bit this is that this is that torque wrench I was showing here we're still in frame. This is this torque wrench just slips right down in the key way a little bit of torque and pushing those pins up. We're going to do a hands-on session when all this is done by the way I invite people to come and actually try this you'll be amazed how easy it is question. Yeah everyone has their own technique that they like in fact you'll see some people like to put the torque wrench up in the top of the keyway mouse you like that some people seat it down low I tend to just hold it right in my hand just let the the torque wrench to give pressure this way because as I mentioned the two biggest mistakes people make when they're first practicing this when they first want to get into it is too much effort some people put too much pressure on the wrench which just means the pins are going to jam so hard you can't push them and some people push the pins so far up that the driver clears and then the key pin goes up into the shear line and yet you've you've thought you set it way too high the only way is to release pressure let them all drop and try again like the way I try to describe it to people imagine you well could be applicable here you just woke up you're still hung over you just smoked a fat cannon and you're like 10 times more mellow than that like dial it down a lot if you try to pick locks and it's not working for you when we're doing the hands-on thing chances are it's the lightest amount of pressure you could ever need and that's really there's there's not a whole lot to it that's the basics so how do we how do we make locks better how how is a lock you know everyone's gonna say well crap I have locks like this am I at risk no you're not really at risk there are better locks out there no one talks about this stuff so no one buys them but there's a whole lot of high end features that locks can encompass and I will cover them now there's things called secure pins there's a lot of other advanced features that specialty locks have in them first let's talk about secure pins a little bit this is our same design the same pin stack but you notice the driver is a different shape this is called a mushroom top pin or a mushroom driver and you can you can really just picture it how pretty easily if you were to try to torque this that's gonna bind up on the lip it's gonna get in your way it's gonna be just a real disaster to try to pick that it's a real headache another type of specialty pin is what's called a spool pin that can have a notch that's big or small cut into it spool pins are even trickier because you get the sensation of clicking and set it you're like oh I felt it move I must have set something no you really didn't if you ever have a lock that you keep trying and trying and trying it you're like what the hell is wrong with it you may have a spool pin in there if you want to defeat high security pins and the other kind of there's only called serrated pins they just jam on everything and they're just kind of a bitch yeah if you want to defeat any type of you know if you want to pick usually you'll use a tension wrench that looks like this they're usually called feather wrenches it's the very very light amount of torque the lightest amount you could ever imagine hey what's going on priest no problem bring him on in we're having a good time hey with this being such a long talk are you gonna do a spot the fed maybe in the middle of it if we want to break it up some so yeah if you use a very very light touch on a wrench you can actually force the pin stack yeah there's some seats up here raise your hand if there's some some extra seats near you we got yeah there we go still more over here all the way down you don't have to stand on the wall come on everyone else got up friggin early and they're in their seats you're holding up the show yeah give me shit we'll get it eventually just calm small words this is priest everybody for anyone who has not met how many how many people is this your first def con welcome absolutely welcome he is kind of the epitome of the goon squad they're really they work hard they make sure everything flows right and we always appreciate all they do for us so just if they ask you to do something just do it anyone who's had the pleasure of comparing dealings with the goons as opposed to dealings with AP security knows which end of the stick you want to be on so those were advanced pins and we can defeat them in a defeat is kind of a rough word but with that feather touch wrench what about even more advanced features because really all this takes is a specialized tool and a little bit more patience what if you want something even more secure than that well some locks even in the basic pin tumbler design do incorporate additional security features and we can cover them now this is called a slag ever is locked you can see that it has a normal complement of pins just you know it's pinstacks like we've been looking at before but up underneath the bottom of this plug there's something called a check pin by the way this is some this will be for a couple of light we have a lot of leftover bottle opener lighters from the B triple C event this will be for a couple of lighters and a Red Bull who can tell me where at a previous Defcon did a slag ever is locked up here it was part of the obstacle course I need more specific it had a specific name two years back nobody there's a big blue lock nobody remembers come on I know you're a drink and a letter nobody remembers what the beer lock yes it was the beer lock which no one opened and it's a shame no one opened it because this is actually pretty easily beaten as you can see this is the plug up underneath you can see this check pin sticking through here now that engages with part of the outer shell and this is not going to rotate unless the pins up top are set and this is pulled out of the way you can see this little bar well that little bar engages with a big groove slot on the side of the Everest key you can see most keys do have grooves they actually they help seat the key in with what are called wards those protrusions are called wards that seat the key weight this however the groove is deep because it actually picks up that pin and as the key travels down the key weight lifts it up and out of the way well it didn't take people too long to realize that you can just make a tension wrench with a nice long finger and pick up the pin that way or you could take an Everest key cut the hell out of it stick it down the lock and use that as a tension wrench by the way we want to thank Matt blaze for a lot of these beautiful photos you see I reference him later he's some he's a real groovy cat and he was very kind and let me use these for a let's see we'll still work we've got a lot of red bull we're keeping working for a red bull can anyone tell me the name of the vendor who manufactures and sells these Everest picks don't please shout and know it's not southern let me see you forgot you've won stuff wait yes yes it is Peterson international very good applaud for the man he knows cool shit yeah this little Everest yeah yeah yeah the question was this that's a yeah as far as I've seen that all the all the plugs have that yeah these are the Peterson wrenches they come in two different you know there's a left and a right one and they're really excellent they're very well made Peterson we talk about Peterson later in the talk they're a very good supplier they're good people so we're moving our way up from like ass-tacular security to almost good security let's talk about very nice security this is called an asa v10 twin this is a very popular lock in Europe you don't see a lot of asa locks in America you actually don't see a lot of very good locks in America there's maybe one brand but asa is a very good lock and you can see it has a traditional pin stack with as you know secure this is a spool pin up here and the spool pin even has an extra lip that really binds up hard but next to that there's a tiny pin stack seated way down on the side and you can tell that only if these pins are lifted to the right height can what is called a side bar fall inward this sidebar unlike the check remember the check pin was seated down here the check pin was vulnerable you could grab it from the keyway the sidebar cannot be grabbed by anything you stick down the keyway the only way the sidebar is going to move is if these these tiny pins on the side which are really hard you can't really insert picks in there it's a really tiny space the only way the sidebar is going to fall inward is if that is raised up now I don't know if you can see my faint text here these are very secure but the person in fact who first showed them to me a guy named Barry Wells and how many people know Barry Wells how many have ever heard him talk at Hope or anything no oh man you guys got it he is I'll show you his videos later he's a real amazing cat Barry who was a big fan of this lock was very like disappointed when he found out there is what he calls a geographical weakness you can see this lock right here with the the cuts on a key that's called the bidding the bidding cuts are normal cuts right here and you can see the sidebar cuts down here forced more free stuff agent X everybody he's running this he's running the show as well with the speakers big hand in my hand I have some individually numbered issues hardcover a frack 63 final issue they're so warm they're still warm from the presses and from their total hot the coolness we're gonna be swaggering them out tonight or actually he's gonna be swaggering them out right now okay will this be for questions or just for fanfare and pandemonium I don't want arms ripped off so all right we have plenty of users we're all we're all gentle human beings here I'm sure not savages except for that guy looks behind him anyway so yeah if you could get those and they're individually numbered they're giving away issue number 13 in the Apollo talk limited edition people and here I thought I was just gonna give away a little cheap red bull and lighters yes you sir can we get a hand raise again real fast if there's any more seats do they all go there's a few more seats people I know it's nice being able to have that room to spread out but come on really raise your hand if you got room we got one seat here fine-looking gentlemen ladies come on this guy's not feeling any love right here we've got this is prime seating especially if I start throwing stuff one more seat all right please keep your feet tucked in please keep I got one I got one more seat send me somebody from inside the room over here somebody raised you in the white shirt there yes you come on down you're the next contestant on get a better view sir is there what is this guy he still needs a spot right you want to move right in there yeah you did we got is that safe right here guy I got this guy the white taking it all right is there any more seats because I were booked yes sir okay please keep the aisles clear I've got to be able to see the doors from the stage that means if I see you standing in front of the door from the stage you're in front of the door okay the only reason we're doing that is that the fire marshal walks in we have the illusion of we didn't overbook too bad we're trying to get as many people in as we can for the popular talks okay we're working on something for next year we didn't have a chance to implement it this year hopefully we will have it up running by next year where we'll have some type of sign-up system where you can sign up for the talks that you want to see we'll have you with the sign-up we'll have you line up in one line people who want to see it but didn't get to sign up a line up in another line so to be first come first serve there won't be this rush to the other line you know 30 minutes after you're into the first talk so you get to the other talk you want to see but for now what we're gonna do is we're trying to get as many people as we can we have actually quadrupled the seating from last year okay you'll notice that what we found was the fire marshal was working from a four-year-old occupancy limit and we got that updated that's why there's more people you'll notice that you guys were in a huge line all the way back around the side of the hotel I'm not that good you'll notice that all of you got in plus everybody was queued up over here so we got everybody in we apologize for putting you on the floor like to do it is he smelt bad or something okay little lovers poor we got everybody we could we're sorry you have to sit on the floor we're doing our best please work with us we appreciate your patience and we'll keep doing what we can do so thanks for this talk and you buy a pair of lock picks and the police pull you over and they find the lock picks do not say I'm a hacker and I break into my client's buildings we actually had someone do that you're now in jail for having feeding tools the correct answer is I'm going to lock smithing school these are classes for my tools or I'm an apprentice we'll cover that there's a whole legal section we'll cover breaking entering and having tools all right thank you everyone for working with priests and sitting in the seeds and by the way show a hands how many people are staying at the alexis how many people you guys do know those feeds go into the rooms that's a great pickup line you just stroll these lines of people be like hey you know air conditioning we got some coolers of beer you want to see the talks come on back work that angle I'm serious all right so we were going to talk about the potential weakness in the v-twin right what's that geographical weakness yes and the reason we call it that is because these sort of bidding cuts can be if you've had a key made you can see the machine's not sophisticated just a grinder that just grinds off the key does the bidding this bidding cut down here however for the sidebar is not easily accessible by a traditional grinder machine it has to be made on a special milling machine these blanks are special ordered which actually increases the security it's you can't just no fool off the street can just get a key blank and cut it but it's a nightmare for logistics and distribution of locks to locksmith vendors so Barry and the people at a German sport group found out that all over Germany and other places they're just divided into territories and locks are sold with a certain sidebar bidding in that territory so that you know all the key blanks for that territory there so it's not you know it's not a big weakness but it's just kind of the cost of doing business the way the distribution works they don't just deal over the internet like a guy at a local shop can't have 80 bajillion of these blanks if you know a customer comes in so it's something to keep in mind and that that comes into play with what we do bump keying later I see a couple hands I do not know how many territories there are yeah SS devs puts from the disparate technique we'll talk about them later they talk about it yes I would imagine someone could be mapping that out potentially I don't know if you can look at just the bidding and know where it came from he was asking if you just looked at that sidebar bidding can you tell the territory obviously there's got to be a master list somewhere that coordinates distribution but I don't know of it there was one more hand that's a term tremendous question if simple changes to the driver pins if you know the addition of a ridge or a lip or serrations if they make it so much harder to pick why don't all locks come with this and the reason for that is Americans especially but in general people are cheap everywhere you got a figure that costs you know X number of cents to introduce that feature into a lock multiplied by how many you distribute in a year someone in a boardroom looked at a spreadsheet and said no we don't freaking care let's just make them this way that's the answer to that oh yeah that's a very good point you can retrofit you can re-pin your locks you can do you can buy pin kits and complete because you know the driver the height of the driver the size doesn't matter it's only these bottom pins that have to be the right size to work with your key bidding you can retrofit your drivers definitely and in the hands-on session mouse if you have the ones that are pulled apart we can show people how you do that so moving onward that was that is a very nice I want to knock the v10 though and for that one weakness it's still a stupendous lock this however is probably my favorite lock and interestingly enough it is an American company that that makes this lock how many people have heard of medico locks now there's some hands medico is is one of the finest locks I can think of out there I don't work for them I'm you know not dating anyone there they're just really good they're really good designs medico keys besides being insanely restricted and hard to get your hands on have what's called cross-cutting and that's if you can kind of see these these these pins you can notice they're chiseled on the tips they're also serrated by the way these key pins these key pins and these chisel tips actually fit into you can kind of see here these cross-cut notches these pins spin as they track up and down as the key goes into the lock it's called axial rotation only if these pins have spun correctly lined up a notch on the side will a sidebar fall inward and then with a lock open these these locks are psycho you can't buy there's no easy bypass for this and in fact the gentleman we've mentioned Barry Wells I think is the only man alive who I know who can pick these I've seen him do it and I shit myself I mean you know he reaches he actually uses that finger pick and he spins the pin by hand and you can even see this has a fake cut here so you can feel like you spun it and you've caught on something but it's really it's a fake cut a deep cut it's a really hard lock and for someone like Barry to do it I've seen them like eight minutes ten minutes a regular person just any guy with any hope of picking this would take like an hour and a half two hours if you have a security situation where someone can kneel down in front of a door on your property and fiddle with something for two hours you've got a whole different set of problems if they're not getting noticed so those are some examples of very high security features in locks these are out there they're not outrageously expensive if you you know factor in the costs that involved you know what are medicals like a hundred a hundred fifty the v-twin I think you can get for about eighty the cost offset is not a big difference considering what you're getting out of it I see a hand yes yes it is the question was can you replace just the cylinder just the core of the lock yes you can you can usually more to cylinders screw out you can swap out cylinders in fact a lot of really high end how many people here are in the service or affiliated with the service of any kind military service man just a handful geez a lot of military locks are standard designs like military handcuffs military padlocks their standard industry locks that have been swapped out with a medico biaxial core and like you'll see yeah you see you can retrofit locks to differing degrees yes the best locks the brand best I cover them in a bit they have a very very nice system especially it's one of very nice to manage we're jumping ahead though but because you're on top of things you get a free lighter good catch very good very good point to bring up we're gonna cover best lock we're gonna cover a lot of stuff so we got to keep it moving along oh no that that was a very good point someone mentioned yeah you're not gonna make this on a grinding machine or at your local hardware store you can't make these cross cuts very very restricted blanks so that was a peek at very good security let's flip it back the other direction now and go back to bad security for minutes yes the little light shines and the holes I don't know what you mean I don't know well show me like later give me an idea later we'll talk about it okay the question was if you keep where if you keep picking and playing with a lock will it eventually wear the lock down yes there's a lot of potential wear and tear that a lock can experience the springs that push the pins those can get weaker you can also because a lot of pins are brass because they don't corrode brass is easily misshapen so if you beat the head in fact I talk about that later there's some techniques that are really bad for locks you can beat the locks up make them easier to pick that way question again those are called dimple locks we're gonna cover that in a minute everyone you alright jeez I gotta stop rewarding people for jumping ahead of me but no more jumping ahead hold on we're gonna get to all the fun stuff first let's let's talk about really crappy things hang on wait wait wait I'm trying to go forward people I expected questions at the end this is my second time ever speaking so you gotta you know bear with me thank you we're talking about very bad locks at the moment can I get a show of hands how many people have used this lock that's about right these locks are incredibly popular these locks are everywhere in our life everyone and their dog has a master lock securing something these locks do not provide anything if you have something that you care about that you're securing with a master padlock you know you pretty much doing this why you say well you can take a master padlock much like this little number and use a guy like this does anybody know what this is this is a padlock shim a padlock shim can be inserted into a lock oops or it can be broken in the lock because this shim has been beat to hell and that'll open that lock question yes it will I'll cover I'll cover which can and can't be shimmed shims are a very very elegant sort of attack against a lock I mean they really I would say fall into the category of a bypass just because the simplicity of the design and the fact that Americans especially Americans but everyone in general likes convenience as opposed to utility makes this possible let's look a little bit more at this master you can see it has a all padlocks it like the end has a shackle as a little dog notch and that interfaces with see if we can see down here you know a locking bar that's in there and only if the combination is dialed in will that bar retract allowing you to pull the lock open well what if you're not opening the lock but rather you're closing the lock you don't have to dial a combination you don't have to fiddle with a key or anything you just you know slap it shut well that's because that bar is spring loaded the bar is just going to get out of the way it's like oh the shackles coming down I better move the way and I'm going to try to get I don't make films so bear with me the way a shim works a shim is inserted outside the shackle slid down in and then turned effectively obscuring that dog notch you see that it just I'm trying to get that and let it it just pushes the bar right out of the way it's like credit carding a door I have a lot of friends back home who are in theater there are theater techs and stage designers and stuff and there's kind of an axiom with anybody who does craft work on stage and design sets if you're doing it with springs you're doing it wrong this is an example of that phenomenon many things in locks that involve spring action are easily easily compromised because a spring is by nature not a it's a dumb device it doesn't know what's pushing on it and you can usually just pop them right out of the way so padlock shims the cheapest stuff in the world you know that you can buy them in packs what's that oh yeah you can make it we're gonna cover that's gonna be a question yes question mm-hmm yes very good point metal metal bus fuses there's a lot of material that you can make make shims out of shims you can buy you know they're they're 20 pack is $25 I'm gonna have some of them if you want to play with them in the in the hands-on area you can also make your own and this will be a question let's see this is kind of a hard question because it's very very current events if you will the question for a Red Bull and one of these issues of frack what readily available material from Defconn did we use to open a jammed padlock at Civiacs house yesterday afternoon it was not a badge from last year but a good guess hang on I saw wait wait whoa no shout out I saw your hand next the man is correct come on up the answer was metal from a beer can and I have to definitely apologize I'm sure there's gotta be people flailing their arms on the sides and I might not be seeing you I apologize for that I'm gonna try to keep you in my field of vision when I'm asking questions yeah just the other day Civiac had some friends staying with them they're moving from San Diego then they stopped here they're moving up to Seattle it's polyhazard and I forget who else but as we I have definitely done this before many people have done this before some locks the shackle completely pulls off you know the lock base can actually be completely removed and if you accidentally slap it shut upside down the keyway is kind of inaccessible it happens it happens to the best of us I've done it before in fact I first experimented this when I did it at home we had the right tools in hand and a simple beer can is all it took to shim this right off we'll do this in the hands-on session I've got I've got collect plenty of beer can metal up here man we're gonna make some cut them up and have a good time with that it may or may not have been the beer that resulted in the lock being that way I am uncertain very very very easy to do in fact you can ask you can ask him which we probably took I guess 30 40 minutes in midday Vegas traffic to get to the house it probably took 30 or 40 seconds to get this lock off there are however unshimmable padlocks there are very very good padlocks on the market that shims will do absolutely nothing to some padlocks have a nice big boot or collar on the top that makes the shim really hard to insert damn near impossible incidentally for let's say a red this is kind of an easy one for a red bull and a lighter and I'm keeping the sides keep the sides in view what is the actual purpose of the collar or boot up on these whoa that was a lot of hands I think it was this way down there preventing bolt cutters is the exact right answer come on up get a drink and a lighter other locks you can actually let me flip back to this this is not the best solution but if you were to just put notches in this bar if and literally I mean we're not talking about reengineering the lock here oh here's a lighter man bottle opener lighter's got to dig those it you know we're not talking about a massive new design if you were to just notch this bar that would rip the crap out of the shim as you try to spin it around and if you you can actually kind of see in there this bar is pretty beat up I have some padlocks that I've shimmed so many times they just shred the shims now because there's so many scrapings so if people would just notch the bar it would be kind of kind of a solution but really the best type of padlock and frankly in my mind the only type of padlock that can be considered useful at all involves what's called double ball locking double ball locked padlocks the shackle has you know dog notch on each side and inside there is no bar with a spring or any other horseshit like that there are two solid steel ball bearings these are not going to go anywhere unless this control cylinder in the middle is rotated you can see the control cylinder has a notch on each side that cylinder rotates the ball bearings drop in that the lock will open that is a real padlock anything else is you know the paperweight many locks employ either called key retaining locks by the way locks that you have to have the key to open it and close it those are invariably going to be high-end double ball mechanisms that are in there but it any lot it'll stay right on the front double ball mechanism look for that it is not a not at all a big investment to make that leap up it's the difference of like a five dollar lock or a twelve dollar lock moving on from from good locks will jump back again we're kind of doing it a high and low range of things worded locks how many people have ever seen locks that look like this all right yes they are they are a lot of places worded locks are really very nice locks for certain reasons they're very popular in outdoor situations in fact if you notice that trailer that I showed you in the other pictures that was a worded lock why are they popular outdoors well they're very resistant to fouling they're very resistant to dirt and filth they can rust up and they'll still usually work they don't have an intricate pin tumbler mechanism inside the fact that they have a very rudimentary mechanism may means that you know that you can put a lot of crap in this lock and it'll still sort of work the other side of that coin is that it's a really rudimentary mechanism and it's a joke worded locks look kind of like this on the inside you have a long key way with wards those are protrusions called wards that get in the way and at the very tip you'll have just you know a notch bar just with a spring those keys if I jump back those keys let me flip to I used to have these numbered and the numbers of all but worn off got it on the first one all right this key when it goes down the key way the only thing you guys see that okay the only thing that's actually operating this lock is this very very tip of the key that little tip of the key is interfacing with this lock mechanism the latch that's that's hidden inside however what that means is if you take a worded key lock and you file down can everyone see that all right you file down all the notches this will still operate the lock I think this was number one so this was I took you know number one is probably this guy and I just filed all the words off of it except for the tip we get that in there that still opens this lock because you know you only need the tip the rest of the lock the only thing it's doing is getting in the way so that means you could take this to any worded lock the tip will open and they just you know there you go oh I saw some hands wait hang on there's people with hands wait hands not so much with a regular pick but there are what are called worded picks and there was a hand back that was it was that a same question or I'm not familiar they were even mentioned in the last talk I've yet to see if anyone has one of these I'd love to see it the TSA luggage lock I don't deal with you guys who fly your nuts if you check bags man I FedEx all my shit I don't deal with those psychos hand okay and you were going to ask a question as well I'm sorry yeah he makes the very valid point a lot of these locks they're really just decoration oh we have a TSA lock thank you sir yeah he gave that man a lighter for that this is it are you kidding me this is a TSA lock oh for okay so there's there's apparently a varieties of TSA locks but yeah I hate the TSA I won't give them any of my stuff all right moving on oh wait sorry question the question was you know locks that are called key retaining locks that the keys inside the padlock the whole time it's operating and we'll only that's what you're asking about and you're saying is it a spring that keeps the key in oh invariably key retaining locks tend to be much higher quality they're gonna have a double ball so no you can't shim those so yeah you can buy these are what does anyone see Irvine's table do they have the warded picks there this time around yeah Irvine it usually has these sets what are they like nine bucks I hope I didn't low ball that price if they're more they're worth it but they should be about nine bucks yeah you or you can literally just buy you know these locks cost about seven dollars so just buy one and carve the key down question oh why they're different shapes you can notice that the question is about those shapes the key tips aren't always the same size sometimes there's a very very thin tip now if you had a slightly thicker one it might not stick all the way in but if you have a very you couldn't just if I just took this key carved all the way down the thin is a little weaker so this set it gives you kind of options you can see how they all engage that lever on one level or another occasionally you don't see them anymore but you used to see a dual lever warded lock in fact I think I have one over here I used to have on the back of my truck for my trailer hitch but you know you really you don't see any one of these could probably open just about any warded lock out there our locks knew this year anyone who saw me at schmoo you didn't see this part barrel locks are very popular with utility companies and they're popular in outdoor situations I would almost these are kind of the in between are these really a lock are they not I don't really know I like to kind of use them as an example of something that works like a lock but it shouldn't be thought of as a lock I've seen these sometimes on like perimeter fence on way out on the edge of properties don't don't use them out there it let let the utility company work with these they're really not truly locks the way and here we're gonna play with some of them in a bit the way barrel locks work a barrel mechanism looks something like this it's a double ball action inside with a plunger and if this plunger retracts obviously the balls fall inward but unlike you know very high-quality padlocks where the double ball mechanism and is engaged with a key and so forth these really just rely on a very very very strong spring if you just reach in there with a hook pull that out let me see if I can do that for you this is a homemade tool made out of a fishing snake you know if you're gonna run wire through a wall very very nice steel if you temper it right you can make a lot of good tools out of this this is a barrel lot you can see the outer casing and the little balls here if I reach in sorry if I'm going out of frame for a second that's locked that's not the cool part it's kind of cool but you know yeah unlocking it there now you can applaud the unlocking part that's fun yeah this is the plunger that would that would ride all the way down inside there I don't know if we can get that up to the camera when my camera is ass-tacular but yeah that little plunger just rides rides in and out and it's you know it's not a complex mechanism I've known people maybe maybe I've heard of people who hypothetically had their gas turned off because they were potentially a moron and didn't pay their bills for maybe a year and maybe they turned the gas back on this way but I could just be telling a story someone told me was there a question there were a couple questions on that one oh how do I I just um let me actually think I have one that has you can kind of see the plunger in there oh I'll show you the key from the tool that I use just reaches in and has a hook tip and I just kind of grab as hard as I can on the spring the spring is sort of fused to the base of the plunger so if you get that spring at all it'll it'll move was there another question before I jump on no all right there's another type very similar it's just a called a screw style bolt style in this case there's just threading and the the bolt that's inside the plunger spins outward the key on that here the here's what keys look like this is the actual anchor key it's called a nk er it's really just it sticks down I think the tip of this has a pair of hooks that flange outward if you pull the handle but you know that's really all it is just a hook and this is the bolt stand now you should note that this is not a regular like Phillips head or hex head pattern here this is a unique cut pattern and the bolt on the inside if you have a rotating bolt style barrel lock is a unique cut pattern so it's very very hard to get to pick a rotating bolt style these are I think ag bay makes these these are rotating disc style you can actually get barrel locks in rotating disc we'll talk about what a rotating disc lock is later they are really nice they are a whole world of difference from what you see on the table in front of me you can do all kind of levels of permission characteristics master keying if any of you work for any type of a company large enough to think about barrel locks consider going with a higher end one I don't know the price breakdown but it's really really worth it and just worth worth mentioning you see these in similar situations a lot of the same vendors seldom they're called intimidator screws these are included just to mention you know these are obviously not locks their freaking name is intimidator it's meant just to dissuade someone these are not to be thought of as real locks but you'll see these in you know very similar light light duty situations dimple locks someone someone mentioned these earlier let me try to make some real estate up here are we having fun so far am I doing all right dimple locks you may have seen a lot of European locks are of this design in fact the device you know that the club that goes on automobiles they had a competitor that came out not too long ago I guess long now but that was like kind of wraps around the brake pedal and one of the big things in their infomercial was that the club lock is just a joke little lock our lock uses a dimple key you know you'll see these on kind of higher end situations dimple keys the key way is flipped this side you know that's it's flat so it's a bastard to get your picks in there and the where did I oh never mind I don't have a picture of the key just other than to show you this yet dimple keys to actually carve the bidding on them it takes a little more skill to get in there so but inside you know inside most of the time these are just simple pin tumbler locks you know it's just it's just a pin stack in here it's you know it's facing a different way it looks different but it shouldn't be thought of as as dramatically different it has its benefits it has its weaknesses some people have tried to make these locks even more secure let me see if I have that well first instead of showing you the more secure one let me show you the less secure one there are other means of you know if I said the key way so small it's hard to put your picks in there's there's other means of picking them however there's a method called impressioning those of you the few of you who said you knew Barry Wells the rest of you shall be introduced to him with this video clip and we hope that we have sound running I'm jacked in and everyone heard that loud blaring of sound earlier so let's see what we've got it's very difficult to pick this lock it's extremely difficult they put in all sorts of anti-pick pins it really is a very nasty lock to on the other hand I just explained you a little bit about impressioning and there isn't very easy to open these locks and I'll try to demonstrate it on the here you see the original key it has deep cut not so deep cut deeper cut not so deep cut and here's the blank that we prepare the blank has the cuts all the way to the deepest so this key will never open a lot we even made it a little bit deeper it all the holes are just a little bit deeper than they know you're okay what I'm going to try to do now is put some aluminum tape over this blank key so it becomes high again stick it in the lock then the pins will push on on the prepared key they will bind I will move it left and right and the keys that bind will actually push deeper and deeper and deeper into the foil and at one moment hopefully the lock will turn and I have an exact copy and this is a technique that is it's possible on almost all dimple lock keys it's not possible on the no dimple locks because they have pin in pin and some have to be pushed upwards and therefore it doesn't work on that but it works on an amazingly amount of locks I show you what I do I put some of this aluminum foil that is being used in the car industry and the heating industry over this blank so as you can now see it's covered the trick is that the way where the key will enter the lock it has to be perfect because that's yeah that's where it will probably jam up if this goes wrong we pick lots you don't make films okay now the the prepared plane is in in the lock and now I will wiggle it this will take a little bit longer than the ace lock but hopefully the result will be the same but anyway if you have that window with the lock cooking foil would slowly shape into the right levels you go in there you wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle pop that's how the average would take very long so that's Barry Wells very very good cat to know he's a very bright guy and that is the impressioning technique which made and you can see like the room just erupted at Hope that really blows people away to see it's that simple but it works I've seen him do it and I'm just I'm in all of the stuff that he can pull off he's a really great guy there's I'm mentioning here another technique that sometimes opens these locks called bump keying we're gonna cover that in a bit too how many people have ever heard of bump keying only some of you so you're gonna have some fun with this in a bit let me see if that's next or if I added no I added a new section there is a dimple lock that's a specialized style of lock it's a high-end dimple lock that's recently the multi-lock company who was acquired by the abloy group at large umbrella company of lock manufacturers in Europe the multi-lock is very special because it has what's called telescoping pins or pin in pin systems the pin stacks not only do they have regular top and bottom pins but they have their hollow so they actually have top and bottom pins inside of the top and bottom pins so the key way I'm sorry the key cuts are both dimple cuts and sometimes little protrusions in the middle so some of the pins track in and out there's pins tracking inside of each other it's a very very secure design it's a brilliant idea it's a brilliant idea but in theory theory and practice are different things this is what if you were to just kind of look down look down a lock at a multi-lock it kind of looks like you can see you have your pin stacks you can see kind of protruding we have pins inside of pins and most people say oh that's a brilliant design you know you've got this multi-lock and that's so at least these pin that must be held a pic I can't imagine something like that well it's actually a little something like this did anyone catch the difference this is what people think a multi-lock is this is pretty much how multi-lock works can anyone notice what is the difference yes the top pins are not independent of one another they are a related system they interact with each other in ways that were not completely foreseen can anyone tell me let's see this is a really hard question so this is definitely going to be worth this will be an issue of frack a red bull a lighter and I think we're going to do maybe a hard drive I have a lot of old hard drives that are too small for me but maybe I forgot to erase you know aqua teen hunger force or Monty Python or something I was storing on them I don't know might be there can anyone tell me the name of the student from Rampamo College in New Jersey you already got your hand up Jesus you have to pronounce his name correctly who published an exploit based around this this attack close but no not pronounced right I saw a name I saw a hand back here no guess there was some who was it over here pardon me no it was not Eric Murdoch I saw a few hands geez I got to was there anybody I feel like I'm missing out I know your hand must have been up I'm missing you say Eric Michaud is the correct answer way to go man yeah Eric is that Eric is at what the hack which unfortunately it's running at the same time as Defcon this year if you see that red box take a look in there and maybe grab a hard drive to your liking I think fat probably probably fat file system the little red the master the box that says hard drives yeah the the Michaud attack I'm sorry what you want to help me out Sandy how would we describe this this is mouse everybody she's a member of Tool USA so she's here with us would we call this an exploit or a proof or what would you what would you think this is yeah this is this is a tool that we have worked and we I mean we can I'd probably snap it apart but giving enough time I can keep cutting these and eventually you know we do get them to work yeah Ken Preston the guy from Peterson remember I mentioned Peterson the vendor he is this is definitely on his radar and he's like oh man I got some ideas for this yeah we've engaged with multi-lock is aware that people are working on this they've acknowledged that there is something to this yeah they they do love to send out letters don't they the trick behind I mean you can most of you if you can see what's going on here you'll probably see already where this is going typically the pin stack would function this inner pin would would be pushed never that high up because you got a picture a dimple key you're not going to have a dimple that's little and like this big spike in the middle so dimple keys usually don't push the inner pin very high that doesn't mean you couldn't stick something in there to push that pin very high and if you over lift that pin stack the Michelle attack just completely moves everything out of the way it's it's a very very elegant discovery and I'm we're very proud of him he's a great and how old is Eric he's like he looks 15 but you know he's in his 20s he's a really bright kid so way to go Eric keep this on your on your radar and see if Peterson starts selling anything about it back to other locks that are less secure and everyone knows are less secure tubular locks so you really locked how many you guys must have seen tubular locks here and there and in life right how many people have seen a tubular lock yes how many from the last talk we mentioned the kryptonite itself kryptonite tubular lock one of the best ones that people have probably be familiar with my parents old house the alarm system was a tubular lock when tubular keys first came out they were revered as you know this breakthrough because yeah they're a very new design no one had you know wow what is this shape this is neat I guess you couldn't cut this very easily yes it's harder to cut a tubular key bidding but you have a lock that's literally staring you in the face with all of the pins it lends itself very well to a lot of experimentation and fiddling because you can independently work on these pin stacks right there this is called a tubular pick and a tubular pick has all these little fingers that can track up and down and actually simulate the different cut depths on a tubular key if I were to let's say find a tubular lock somewhere in my happiest when I have just because it's on the top of the pile everyone's seen these before these are your basic you know cheap ass not allowed to be sold in stores anymore kryptonite type lock the way a tubular lock works you take this you know pick stick it right in the lock and wiggle it and I gotta give a little more tension on my the problem with this lock is I've beat it to hell because of another exploit that we'll talk about in a moment yeah I think this lock I think this lock is completely destroyed I really I was gonna buy a new one but you really you gotta give them credit they did pull all these out of the stores you can't you can't get this lock anymore so yeah this lock is beyond all hope let me grab a different one because of the public well why aren't they selling them in stores let's let's jump to this then this is why if you don't have this is a kryptonite evolution 2000 lock is a kryptonite evolution 2000 lock I used to use this to lock up my bike around here in Seattle until I found out that you can take a big pen and just remove the top and just pop it into the lock and just do a couple a little quick twist and turns and while your lock and your bike is completely compromised so way to go that's why they don't sell it in stores anymore does Peterson sell big pens was the question I don't know yeah the original the original design the spring tensions were really bad and it was just it was a that's what they were talking about in the last talk right the the modern tubular lock the gentleman points out is usually designed by ace there's the ace in the ace to even those are much better quality tubular locks they have high tension springs variable tension springs you can't just jam a pen in there I saw two hands one and then two not really possible to use a shim just because traditionally tubular locks you're you're not spinning something you're actually those are key retaining locks because of the because of the little notch in that well you really can't see that the little not if you've ever if you ever use a tubular lock you know you can't just leave the key in it you have to completely pull it back around to get the key out so there's no reason for any type of spring mechanism to be a part of the secure latch it's all one solid piece you really can't shim them easily and there was one hand back here same question okay yeah you really can't shim them however if you know you have something that can't be defeated by a ballpoint pen which is you know your ace type design you can get this lock pick which is this one's by southern other people do make them these are really beautiful beautiful devices I'm just gonna make that nice and flat and flush so that kind of simulates a you know you could actually see the the key cuts would be of different depths those bidding cuts and this simulates let me flush it back out this would be a tubular key that's not cut at all if I give this a little tension and I stick this in the lock and I wiggle it some and now that's open you can see the this is a draw back it draws a bar back out here this is actually a gunlock not only have I open the lock but I have the bidding of that key and you could take this to a lock Smith shop and get a replacement key cut very very easily I don't recommend that anyone walk into a locksmith shop with a pick all the all the picks that you can find usually of this nature they come with what's called a decoder key it's a little key that just has cuts on it of different depths and you kind of it's like a gauge you go okay one two and you can actually you could walk into a lock pick and lock shop and say I need a seven pin tubular key that's bid it out at three six three four two seven blah blah blah and they'll just punch it in the machine and cut it out I saw a couple hands on that one this talk about talk about wonderful wonderful girlfriends this was a birthday gift from my girlfriend right before schmuck on so this is about an $80 pick and you got it you know everyone else in their brother gives you like sweaters and you know here's some crap you don't really care about and I'm like I wonder what this is gonna be and I broke this out I just I wanted to cry question over here I'm sorry oh I understand what you were saying he asked if while I was picking this was I actually manipulating the the heights no you don't have to actually force these to do anything what happens is much like with a pin stack that we working before if I put let me see if I put torque on this it's not all seven pins that are binding at once only one pin stack is gonna really bind so by torquing wiggling and jiggling around the binding pin stack will start to push down down down down down on a feeler until it's at the right height when it's at the right height that's no longer binding the next one will bind and so on and so forth so all I have to do is jiggle it and they'll eventually they'll all track down to the right height and they do it all by itself question here behind you actually I have never seen a tubular blank I think they're just you know just tubes and could you what's that yeah so yeah they have the you know they have the little notch that keeps it seated in the lock but you can just cut them with regular tools there was hanging you and then you and I'm missing are there hands on the outside that I'm not seeing no all right go ahead sir the question was are they all the same diameter I think diameter yes but there are two main two main systems of pinning there's seven pin and eight pin so there's actually two picks that southern offers I think that there's a bonus if you buy them both at once it's like a savings so yeah there's the seven pin by the way everything is seven pin I've never seen an eight pin in my life there's also something called seven pin offset which the eight pin pick will work in a seven pin offset lock but yeah unless you are like locksmith by profession or want to become one just start off buying this one the seven pin is going to be all you play with for everything you can find there was another question over here yes and no the gentleman raises a point he said almost all of what we're talking about especially as far as pin tumbler pin tumbler picking excuse me is based upon misalignment and imperfection in in the locks manufacturing process and he said you know if you had a very precise alignment you wouldn't need a lot of these other security features would you yes and no you can get very precise machining and in fact all of your well-made locks the ones I was talking about in the hot like the ASA locks the medicos just by Nate they're all engineered very very well they're engineered to much higher tolerances but you guys know there's a difference between math on paper and math in real life there's never anything that's 100% perfectly fraught flushed down to like a micron level there's always going to be some intolerance introduced into the equation that's why high-security pins are still very valid to have but yes so yeah you can have them bet some are better than others high-security locks will be better engineered there was another hand somewhere yes pardon me oh the pit I'm sorry welcome from across the pond the question was how did the bi-row trick work and for those of us yanks that was how did the ballpoint pen work that works just because the spring tensions were so bad and because the pins could seat all the way in if you just jammed you know you just jam a ballpoint pen in there it smashes all the springs all the pins completely out of the way and it just forces the pins way up inside the lock like both the mouse am I getting this right it's both the driver and the key pin go completely yeah both the driver and key pin go completely out of the plug and they they seat way up inside the chamber so the plug can rotate freely people also notice that if you pull the pen out if you're doing that to a lock sometimes the pins are all screwed up then and you screw your lock up so you need a pick like this to get it back working again you had a question man very good question the question was if you want to get high security pins in your locks either to practice with them or conceivably to secure your home with them he's you know virus is mentioning where do you find these I don't see them anywhere that's because I'm assuming you're talking about in stores you've never found them right because we're Americans and our stores just don't carry very good locks because know what they sit on the shelf no one buys people like 70 bucks for this sucker this is 12 hell with that yeah you buy them on the internet look on the internet any reputable vendor will actually set you know features high secure pins features this that and the other it's not a feature that they want to be secretive about it's a benefit to the lock so they're going to advertise it but you oh I understand right you don't write he said do you know if they're spool pin or a mushroom pin or a serrated pin different vendors tend to have pins they like to use for instance you know we talked about the assa that was a spool pin lock we'll talk a little later about American brand padlocks they are big on serrated pins but vendor by vendor you can kind of get a feel for it I don't know if there's a nice reference guide out there for who has what but you know just you know break one apart and see what's in it it was a question but oh very good point very good point we'll talk about this in the URLs later when I give you a bunch of links lockpicking101.com would probably have that answer it's a great great user base of really knowledgeable people anything that I don't cover you want to know more about either talk to me later or check them out I'm going to mention them again in a bit let's see where we're with any other questions at the moment the problem with a blank is that it might not I'm trying to think if this was the thing it might not grab onto question was if the ballpoint pen works would just a regular blank have worked right oh all right I understand part of part of the pins fitting in when you have key pins that are still in these grooves you know typically you'd have a driver pin stick out and the key pin would seat in this oh lads you there you are how are you man oh man sorry to hear that usually you would have key pins in those grooves they are helping to turn that center post with the pins being all pushed out of there there's nothing for a blank to grab onto that's why the plastic pen works so well it actually grabs the post because with it uses the plastic misshapes it has a little friction and it'll help spin that's why that happens all right you've gone the smaller fucking screen you're gonna sit up here and bitch or you just you know so that was tubular locks there we go moving slowly forward yes pardon me I don't the question was about Kensington's the ones that use that you see on a lot of laptops and secure lock locks like that they say was it a different diameter I don't know I've never they're the same okay yeah you can pen those as well we got more questions what's that apparently cardboard from a toilet paper roll works very well on a Kensington all right we got it we got to move on we're already in the second hour here and we're we got it all right moving along bump keying we were mentioning bump keying earlier briefly when I said Barry was bumping his his ass a lock and you can sometimes bump dimple locks bump keying is a technique used to quickly spring a lock open with a specially cut key he's called a bump key it's also called a nine nine nine key for a red bull can anyone tell me why it's a nine nine nine key where that name comes from saw your hand very very good the answer is key bidding has numbers like zero is no cut at all one two three the cut depth a bump key is made by cutting all the bidding down to the deepest depths or the nine so it's nine nine nine key bump keys work did you get a drink all right bump keys work very very similar to the way pick guns work so let's cover pick guns very briefly and you'll see why bump keys are very very similar basic physics guys if we have a bill your balls on the table what's going to happen if I shoot this cue yes three's not really going to go anywhere two's going to go flying Newtonian physics at its finest pick guns work the same way pick guns just a long blade down the barrel it's tension with a spring and you know trigger that flicks this pick guns work by smashing on the bottom pins hopefully if you get it all lined up just right you need a little practice but you can smash them all at the same time and if you're lucky all the top pins will jump up and you can turn the lock very quickly before they have a chance to spring back down but pick guns besides being expensive bulky pain in the ass to carry around a very hard thing to explain what the hell they are if you get asked there's a cheaper easier smaller and very simple solution that can replicate this same physics thank you for this it's a retribution for previous beer boy all right Lazz and I first actually met was it here at was it 10 or 11 last was up on stage and he was mentioning how he was picking away and he's wanted beer and I brought one up and I think I said something about yeah I saw you at Hope and I learned to pick it's like come up here and show me man and try to embarrass my ass and I finally picked one for you though and we've been by the way you're a dick I was sitting over in speaker registration I saw a video of like me and Barry on stage like by the way that's Barry you didn't fucking mention me well I'm sorry it says your name in the link Barry and Lazz thanks all right so simulating simulating a pick gun with a bump key works as follows take a key that was designed for your lock notice I didn't say cut for your lock doesn't have to be the right bidding just has to be the right keyway that fits excuse me down into your lock take that and cut all the bidding notches to the deepest level that's where you get 999 now I'm gonna be burping from this freaking beer you can do this you know with a key machine you know go to your local hardware store and be like can you cut it to 999 the kid who's making 550 isn't gonna ask you why or you know you can you can do this with a dremel you can do this you can do this with a lot of different tools I've hand-cut them before and they will work take this key and insert it into your lock not all the way you'll actually feel as these ridges you know we're going past the pins you'll feel it click click click as it goes in make sure it's one pin stack out what's that yeah put it should mouse mention put it all the way in and just click it out by one next thing you want to do is put a little bit of torque on this key and just smash the hell out of it you come at it with a force it bangs across all those ridges and you can see they connect hopefully you'll hit all of them at the same time and all those top pins will jump up it's just how that goes one thing you often will get a better luck with when you make a bump key if you cut the shoulder back just a hair farther than it should just makes life a little bit easier just it gets a little bit more wiggle room when you're bumping it and not some of the harder not much of a difference but it does help this is a you know kind of what we'll call one grade up from master this is a fortress lock and this is a key that a originally went to let me see if I have this one right originally went to a different fortress lock but I've cut it way down now if I put this in this will not open this lock but if I pull it out by one I'm gonna try to do this so everyone can work with the camera here the trick is a little and a lot a little bit of torque and a lot of bit of bang you actually want the sensation of the key slipping out of I'm sorry slipping out of your fingertips as it's being knocked by the lock shouldn't try the second time should yes I was impressed the first time I'm pulling it too hard because I don't want to smash my thumbs pussy you do it then shit I'll do that it's where both colors for you so that's bump keying but there is a I'm sorry question you're a brighter man than I the question is why can't you know you just put yeah put a torque tool in there on the key yeah you probably could do that I'm not thinking clearly apparently it's not my thumb thanks you for that this is sort of the the dirty bump method if you will it's not that sophisticated there is an even better bump method that the guys in tool in the Netherlands came up with I'm sorry as a question where was it left side I'm not exactly raking I didn't even cover raking that much we'll talk about it in the in the hands-on raking is just beating up the pins independently trying to just catch a bunch of shear lines at once on a crappier lock bump keying actually is intended to hit all the pins simultaneously oh master wave yeah that can happen the question was we'll talk about master pinning in a little bit master pinning sometimes involves a very small pins inserted or actually wafer shaped pins inserted into the stack with a big gap introduced like that can those flip and bind up yes that conceivably can happen it's not the most common thing the gap is only there for a second but I imagine it could happen little addendum to that if that is happening it's because the locksmith didn't follow manufacturers tolerances or the lock is wearing out because they have specific minimum wafer sizes so that doesn't happen because I used to have a tremendous amount of people using too small of a wafer there you go thank you sure they got beer man now with respect to the the I said that was like the dirty bump technique there is a really nice bump technique that's been published by the guys in tool it's called the minimal movement bump they actually have a white paper about it this involves taking an existing bump key and at two different points heavily modifying this bump key even further you can shave off probably about a quarter to a half of a millimeter from the shoulder and a half of a millimeter or more from the tip now this is a very very unique modified key if you have it in the lock you can even squeeze it a little deeper now because you've shaved the key down and you notice that as you squeeze it in the spring pressures from the driver pins up top will actually kind of kick it back out a millimeter or so this enables you to deliver a lot of force right where you want it very precisely without smashing across whole rows of pins you come at this they have a tool they call a tomahawk tomahawk I've seen them do the whack right at it comes right into beautiful force delivered real clean and I've seen them bump really sophisticated like Barry mentioned remember the I said the geographical weakness on that v10 he can make a bump key out of a v10 because the top part of the bidding will bump the bottom part of the bidding on the sidebar just does its job normally he bumps his v10 that way he's bumped multi locks that way I've heard I can't imagine how but I guess the force just gets delivered because we talked about how the interactive pins work so yeah that's a very very powerful attack it can by the way be bad for the lock so if you have a family heirloom or something and you're like I'm gonna play with bump king don't do it if you care about the lock because I've destroyed locks doing this it really especially if you do the dirty method it'll misshape the pins it'll really beat things up I've had locks that just don't even work anymore because I've bumped them to death we can cover that a little the question was that doesn't this leave clear indications that this has happened this forensic evidence what we can talk about that in a bit I gotta keep moving through though we had a lot of good stuff wait yes question what keeps the key pins well they can't fall down anymore because they're in the key way as far down as they go and they're not gonna jump up because we're transferring physical force through them so they're just gonna sit right where they are they you know they're not gonna go up they're not gonna go down they're just they have nowhere to go there's spring tension behind them so they're not staying suspended you have a half of a split second where they're up there and you just catching that right moment they're not staying up there permanently you're just hitting it and they stay there for a split second like throwing a ball in the air and while it's upright just at the right height is when you grab it all right we just I know I know you guys are going but let me cut you off for half a second general disclaimer I don't know if you did this I'm sorry I was registering you mentioned you can break locks don't practice on your front door for a number of reasons one because you may break the lock but more importantly because your neighbors will call the cops because they don't know who you are if you're gonna practice on any door try a backdoor or whatnot but still you're gonna get your ass locked out of your house so just go buy a $10 lock from home Depot to practice very very good point so yes this can be bad for the lock I've destroyed locks doing this some of my locks I've had to try to lubricate them to open them now because they're just broken in and about lubrication the question for a Red Bull when if ever do you use WD 40 in a lock and why or why not whoa that was a lot of I think I think it was gray grayish blue shirt here half right answer gets you a lighter come on up for a lighter oh well it's little you're kind of on the right track but I'm looking for a solid answer on when if ever you can use WD I got a guy down here with the glasses well his answer was never and I'm saying that's not a completely accurate answer well you're all right around you basically a lot of people are hitting this point the main point I wanted to make hang on here my guys in the front just throw some lighters with their hands up because everyone kind of has it keep your hands up I know who you are that hey extra hands just went up the point I wanted to make is WD 40 is not good you can get them then these guys start with people's heads dude WD 40 we got a guy with yes WD 40 doesn't did you get one I was that a question or a very very good he's got the full you actually you get the you get the Red Bull I knew that yes all right here we got to keep moving here's the man we're really dying on time the deal is well that's cool but we had a lot to cover I added a lot of shit WD 40 anybody who's in the service especially the Navy maybe you can tell me what is WD 40 stand for water displacement is exactly right water displacer 40 was a formula designed to seep into you know maritime situations to seep into all the cracks to dry out in there to actually make this little waxy buildup to keep water out of machinery so it didn't rust and corrode when it was in there it was not meant as a lubricant it's it's kind of the antithesis of a lubricant yes it's greasy when it goes in but it doesn't stay that way there's essentially three kinds of lubricants out there there's wet lubricant dry lubricant and drying lubricant and everyone who's tuned in on the APTV system just right now they're saying what the hell talk is this looking at the do they move the schedule around different situations call for different products if if you have any precision mechanism like for instance locks you want to use a an exclusively a wet or oil based lubricant something that is going to go in wet and stay wet I use gun oil on most of my really really high-end locks because it'll it'll not foul the thing up dirt and fouling can get into oil and it can gum things up if you live in a really harsh environment if you have let's say a lock out in the desert somewhere Las Vegas any locals maybe you want to use graphite powder in a lock like that because it'll go in dry and stay dry it'll help you know won't get fouled up and gummed up that's right won't freeze but just know that wd-40 will attract dirt and fouling it'll trap it up the only time by the way that was the answer was the full answer I was looking for the only time you use wd-40 is if the lock is jammed and you don't care about the lock if you know you've gone over to your aunt's house for Christmas and she says oh I think that's the trees out in the shed the decorations and you go out there and it's a lock that someone hasn't opened since 1974 and it's rusted to hell yeah you can wd-40 it or you can soak it in kerosene and maybe it'll open and then you throw the lock away because it's not that's not good for the future health of the lock yes lps makes a good product what is lps okay so yeah he meant the gentleman mentions industrial lubricants high-end industrial lubricants are good yeah Google for lps or check it out mollycoat those are also good let's talk about something that was referenced in the last talk firearm locks how many we got a lot of libertarian type people here at def con how many people are gun owners you don't have to raise your hands you don't want to how many people lock your guns in some fashion would like to see maybe you don't have kids in the house you don't have kids in your house then you know you lock your door but super soakers count we're gonna talk about something is very serious to me right now just because it's a very it's a very important issue that people understand the severe weaknesses of some locks what they're designed to do and what they are not designed to do I would like a volunteer I know we have people on the goon squad I know in fact by Rosa you have time in the service stand up for a second man I'm gonna use Lou everyone this is by Rosa by Rosa has served so we're gonna he's gonna be our authority for today I'd like and justice this is for everyone's comfort he's going to inspect a stage prop that I have that looks like a weapon but we're gonna take him at his authority that it is not a functioning firearm I want everyone to know this I want everyone to be very yeah you have anything to drink is everyone comfortable with his authority as opposed to you physically inspecting it yourself if not we can actually have someone else who is even more well known if you'd like priest or someone to come up but is everyone okay with virus up all right yeah really pisses off the TSA when you put that in your carry on by the way yeah FedEx FedEx so yeah it's should be a file down firing pin the barrel solid all barrel pretty much do the job yeah would you care to certify that this is a non firing weapon there's nothing in it this it's completely cord up this is solid I don't know if you can see dude all right well I'm just very serious about this thank you thank you how many people have ever used a trigger lock that looks like this I'm very pleased that not too many people have when I was god I want to say I was 12 or 13 I had got an air gun for my birthday and a lock like this is what was installed on it I'm gonna guess I was probably about 14 when I figured out how easy it was to bust this up and my parents were very proud that I was I actually was just so proud of the discovery I went and showed them right away wow that's so neat this goes in our closet now this is your your typical trigger lock most vendors of trigger locks there there are two popular designs of trigger locks there are bad and there's colossally bad pretty much everyone explores these two designs of locks this is just in the bad category feel bad this camera is so awful but all right we'll do what we can so this is on it's installed the way it should go I'm gonna take this tool it's upside down but you guys can live with that for anyone who thinks he's out of frame he's shoving a big ass piece of metal in there yeah we don't have to applaud on that one this is a piece of wire people this is a piece of fish snake there's a question I wouldn't recommend trying it on a loaded weapon that's for sure right you're never supposed to lock a loaded weapon people pointing out to me side note for you though on that specific weapon though on others maybe why you know in the hell is this possible once again the golden rule the I'm sorry thank ever yeah keep shouting at me if I'm out of frame because I want you guys to see everything the golden rule of you know that like the triumph and peril of our capitalistic system is that the marketplace will regulate itself one of the marketplace forces is convenience users convenience how does this lock work well this lock just has a pillar down the middle we can see and a bar that rotates now this bar what if I could focus this a little more nope that's worse take my word for it this bar you can kind of see has little teeth notched teeth now these teeth are exposed and now these teeth are hidden those teeth completely engage with teeth that you can barely see down a steel plate down this you know down this barrel here this steel plate is spring loaded why is that the man points it out so that if I want to lock this I don't have the key in it I can just slide it together do you know how fucking ridiculously simple it would be to make this steel plate solid just make the bastard part of you wouldn't even need the spring just you know oh I need to turn my key to lock it and secure it I'm out of frame again I can't fathom what was designed this way but it was this is not this is nothing this is just a joke I made this in no time I made this type of this type of pick when I was 12 the let they mentioned in the last talk this information is out there how many of you have read about this how many of you have ever heard about this how many of you still use a lock you know a gunlock like this nobody talks about this because the information just doesn't get out I hope that if at least one of you goes home and tells somebody maybe someone will stop using one of these because it's really bad it's just a really bad design in the colossal I'm sorry we had a hand all right who manufactures the blue lock was a question they are somebody I've beat up enough on on this talk already they they're kind of litigious and I'm not gonna say who makes it go to any gun shop in America they're gonna have a whole rack of them you can see who makes it somebody said it these are the just included for your edification these are the colossally bad category you know what the hell is that I don't even know what this is but it's not a freaking lock you can beat this with a paperclip that you have to you know pop a CD out of a jam drive and we saw this is a slide lock this is what I was showing you earlier when I was playing with tubular pins a slide lock is a very nice idea it's a little more secure than that it locks the weapon completely out of battery so it can't be engaged fired anything but you know I showed you this one great concept but it's a really shitty tubular lock that's employing the mechanism put a better lock on the end of maybe put a medico on the end of that you might have a pretty decent lock some people just use cable you can secure firearms with cable this is a very secure solution make sure you use a coated cable so it doesn't rip up the innards of your gun also be aware that the majority of cable you're gonna buy like this this is gonna be you know an ass-tacular 2000 series lock somehow they're gonna they just come really bad I don't know why and let's say this is not the best solution it's a very in elegant solution in general why do I have this section in the talk now everyone I think people here tend to be a little more clue full than the general public so most of you should know this already these are not security devices these are persuading or dissuading devices these are designed to prevent very little children from fouling around you know what's under daddy's drawer here they'll look at this these are designed to these are locks made by children for children basically this will not thwart criminal behavior this will not thwart a curious teenager many people I don't always get agreement with this but I'm betting this crowd will understand that if you have kids and you have guns you show them what the hell they are when they're very young you teach them to respect them you teach them not to play with them and then you lock them the hell away from them but people who just want to like no don't tell them anything that's that's not the best solution what's up oh sorry question that's a valid so if you don't mind if you have a very easily field strippable weapon just to strip it out take the firing pin out put that in a secure place well the man makes a point down here someone else could acquire another one and put it back in so you know you guys are all smart enough you can come up with with solutions but just keep this on your radar one question then we got to keep it on those are the under desk type models and yeah yeah he mentioned the Colt the Colt Corporation and I do love their weapons they make a very nice a box that it just has it's almost like a hand pad and you can feel the buttons and if you know the order you program the order in you can just feel it pop up up up and then you can you know open it up any type of safe or any type of box that you put a gun in is much better than just throwing a lock on the gun yeah there's a lot there's a lot of better gun locks out there that that we can talk about some more for good we still have like 45 minutes because we're rolling into the next half hour so we can we're still doing all right quick ones on handcuffs we're you know more for the law enforcement crowd I guess guns to handcuffs anybody who doesn't know how handcuffs work this is going to be a real real brief overview inside of a handcuff looks something like this you have a little ratcheting arm and this Paul that spins around has teeth on it that the arm engages it's why you can spin the Paul one way and not the other when you stick a key in the lock and you turn that key it just lifts up the arm that's that's what the inside of a handcuff looks like you can see how it's you can jam almost anything in a handcuff and just try to you know flip the thing and besides a handcuff key is a dollar so it's not that hard to do it you can shim hang you can do a whole lot with handcuffs that are kind of outside of the scope of this we can I don't have any to play with so if anybody else does we can play with them later that could have been interpreted differently I guess but could anyone tell me for a Red Bull I gotta clear some of this out of the way what is the little pin for on the back of a hand I saw a hand right here hang on yeah he got it they quit the answer is what is the little pin for it is a double lock mechanism on a handcuff the little hole that's on the back of a handcuff that most people don't realize what's there for a reason if you stick the pin in there on the back of a key it'll actually put a bar in that prevents the Paul from I'm sorry the ratchet from moving at all so it can't get any tighter it can't get any looser you can't shim it to open it you see it's actually a two-step process to open it someone yeah it yeah in fact anybody who's ever been in custody maybe in a street protest or something and they over tighten you on purpose but no I don't have anything negative to say about that they're supposed to double lock you all the time because it's actually for your own safety so the cuffs if you wriggle or you're sitting the back of the car they don't get tighter on you when you're in them most officers don't do that and it's you know I would I assume you should I don't say I'm gonna hear a cop do you do that to anybody in here who's the law enforcement officer do a double lock so we spot the fed yeah they should frankly it's funny but that's true most of my friends who go to protests will request that they'll say you know I were quit please make sure you double lock this sir and so they don't get because if you've ever friggin been cuffed at a protest you're gonna be thrown in a bus somewhere for like six hours they're gonna take two more hours to process you if you're turning blue in the hands it sucks really bad yes the gentleman makes the point that cooperating tends to you'll be treated a lot better when they're locking oh we're gonna get a demo all right once again agent X everybody and let's thank him for doing this look at that have you done this? they're slamming against the table the trick is that like you talked about all the mechanisms inside you gotta whack this and it'll just slide and most of the cops are really good about keeping their kit well oiled so you have to whack it somewhere which you'll see magicians do because they'll put like a little metal piece of something in their pants and they'll whack it against that but usually you can find something to do it against I find the hardest part is getting them in front it'll kill you it's that's really dangerous I've gotten myself by myself in my apartment with these I think that'll be painful you'll learn real soon why were you wearing a thong? I wasn't wearing a thong he's showing whereabouts he whacked it according to the request here's the handcuffs pin they set right there so what I'm doing is unsetting the pin they have to turn the key both ways so what you do is just go whack and it comes right off or comes right down and then you can shim it don't shim it too much or it's really painful if you do that wall and custody you're fucked by the way unless you get away don't fuck around we're having fun talking about a lot of this but more than anything don't be that cutesy guy who's like getting out of the squad car at the station ah look what I did yeah, Mr. Face meet Mr. Pavement it's funny if your friends are cops to fuck with them now it really is yes it is by the way if you show this to the cops it freaks them out but the main reason I learned this is not because I've ever had trouble with the law it's because this is really a mental thing people are like I can't get out of handcuffs it's impossible I can show you how to do it it's not that hard it's kind of a gaitless barrier thing give it a try come to the THF talk at four in the tent we need your money we're gonna have a whole once we wrap this up we're gonna move it into the contest area where the lock pit contest is we're gonna do a whole hands on session I'll take as much time as you guys want I'm gonna have a lot of kits you can play with I ask that you give me like twenty twenty five dollars then you can return it you can have the twenty five back but I don't want them to walk away a lot of locks we're gonna we're gonna have a good time so come on in if we run out of time here for questions we'll do it in there can you carry a lock pick and you check back I'll talk about that in the legal section do you have a legal section dude you really did add a lot of shit yeah alright we really gotta fly through we got about a half hour left and I have like a hundred and fifty slides so we're maybe two thirds of the way through really quick way for locks just gonna cover what they are they're not that sophisticated oh what what happened is there another cooler talk than me alright when we do the topless section for all you guys leaving not us alright let's just blow through a lot of this now way for locks if you look at a lock notice how this lock there's no upper mechanism up here this this lock just kind of cuts off right here there's no space where a pin stack could be hiding there's no room up here for springs and pins this is an entirely different type of mechanism it's called a wafer mechanism they're popular in very compact places a lot of filing cabinets a lot of display racks and things use wafer locks it's also automobiles but they're more sophisticated not low if you look at a wafer from the front and you cut on into it this is the inside of a wafer lock essentially and there's there's stacks of these wafers in a row the wafers have to be raised to the right height and they'll clear it's not that difficult there are complex wafers that are double-sided you can see if you raise them too high they won't go too low they won't go and all these all they'll have to do is just have this rectangle cut in different places on the wafer so that's how the key cutting works wafers are a really interesting sort of mix they're very unsophisticated but they don't lend themselves very well to most picking techniques you can kind of pin by pin pick them right but most people just use what's called jigglers and you just jam it in, bang it all around and hope for the best and you get about as good a result as you would get if you just tried to individually pick it yeah raking jiggling the unsophisticated bang attack ends up a lot better still moving along rotating disc locks not going to talk too much about these because I can't pick them I don't even own some anything you want to say what should we just show Barry and you doing a video show a video, I was drunk that day if you have any questions there's a brand called Abus as a side note yeah so this is the fucking video with me on the other side didn't tell me schedule if you look at your schedule there were two talks today first is two hour intro then another hour on high security stuff specifically did some scheduling conflicts the high security stuff was cut down to about a half an hour a little grandma coming and giving a speech and we'll go through all that right before we're done so just for anyone who has high security questions hold it off until a little later this is real quick though just showing you that it can be and they had on their website this very challenging text saying nobody can pick our locks no marksman, no test institute no burglars are ever known to pick our locks and this is actually the type of key okay okay don't you love what someone says it's impossible isn't that just so great when you're proven wrong that was a bit clear to you okay in focus hope everybody can see in Germany from my german lockpick friends I bought this tool she's now a little child nobody left and it's this tool and it's called the fall tool because mr. fall made it and it's the code it picks the lock but it also reads the lock so you can make the key here you can here you can see what pin you are picking and here you can see the depth of the key and with this tool you can open the lock that they claimed on their website could not be picked it was a real challenge for us to pick it what they do with this lock is they have disks in the lock there's no pins but disks just to show you a few of these disks okay well here you can see the disks that are inside and here's the real notch and they put some fake notches in as well so when you start manipulating the lock you'll experience like it's in the right position but it's actually not it's quite a while to figure out how to actually pick this lock because of the false notches and then pal he found out that there's a technique that if you put the pick in the lock I'm at the first disk here's one cut disk 2 how many disks are usually in there I like 8 I should have cut this video down I apologize it's possible to get a false cut so pal found out about these false cuts is that they are actually just a little bit tighter so what you do is you go to one disk you feel okay it's getting and you feel it's getting again and you just go for the widest you just go from one point of the cut to the other and the widest is the right cut and that actually was a trick you have to feel the cuts okay in many states this made an improvement on the lock so that this tool actually only works at a certain range of their locks but the people from the German support group they made a tool that beats that with others what to do you had to take the text down and now you read our locks are really secure and very hard to pick they don't say it's impossible to pick anymore so that's rotating disks got to really keep moving here alright master king theory once again how many people were in the last talk with mark and matt so they mentioned that there was a big fuss about this about oh why are people disclosing these secrets this has been known to people all over for a long time but it's just not talked about publicly that often master locks master not the brand but you know master systems where there's different levels of escalated privilege that's achieved by an additional wafer or an additional pin in the stack it's a standard stack but it just has more pins so a master pinned lock might look something like this I say might because there's a couple types of mastering conventions for a red bull a lighter and one of those hard drives do we have any more frack no more frack can anyone tell me which of the two master pinning systems which type this is no one silence can you tell me the question means I know a lot about this stuff well this is what's called TPP or total position progression master there's another type called RC or rotating constant which is a different algorithm oh well I'll just give whoever can ask me cool questions at the end I'll give you hard drives for that can I have one? yes sure so master you can see how you might have a user with the lowest end of the totem pole is just called a change key that's just will open this one lock but you might have a master key if you have a key this is obviously very exaggerated if you have a master cut key these red pins are different these shear lines are different throughout every lock but the combination of a red you know these aren't the real colors the combination of the key pin and a master pin together that is universal throughout all the locks in let's say one facility so a master key would always be able to find this shear line no matter what lock was in what door whereas a person's change key would only work on their door however and many of us who had college dorms with master keyed systems played with this in a very simple way that if you have any key that works in the system you can very easily make a master key sometimes would you like to know how that's pretty much where it starts to go to this is what happens let's say I have this key and it opens my door to my let's say dorm room I take it out and I file this down and I say well that screws me because now I can't get into my room as you can see this is binding well I better keep filing it because I've got to get my room somehow keep filing well it couldn't be higher because then you'd have a bottom pin that's completely out of the shear line so it has to be lower I see what you're saying we're going to touch on that there is a vendor that has two completely independent shear lines oh yeah bump keying and picking is easier on traditional master keyed systems because if you bump or you pick you might pick half of these at a master height the lock doesn't care as long as you got shear lines going on it's going to open so yeah if you have a really poorly engineered master pinned lock there it goes but a very nice mastering type system a very nice system is made by best and they're called SFIC small format interchangeable core best is the most popular vendor some other vendors make them these are very easily managed locks it's very very popular in large enterprise deployments when you're trying to manage logistics and you're swapping out core you're trying to manage who who's who the best lock or the SFIC this figure 8 shape you can pull this whole core right out of the lock with the use of what's called a control key this lock core the pins are all sitting up here there's a plug in here the control key engages what's called a control sleeve and you can see this sleeve has a big piece sticking out the side if that sleeve is engaged it's not going to pull out of the lock but if you stick a control key in turn it and actually rotate the plug and the sleeve all at once you can actually rotate the sleeve out of the way pull the whole lock out and then that can be you can eject the pins you can manage who's what you can swap the cores very easily they're very nicely made this is also a disaster to try to pick if you just you can see this is the brown is sort of the control sleeve the light color is the plug these shear lines are completely independent of one another so you have the top shear the bottom shear and if you stick this is a regular key this would be a control key if you stick a regular wrench in there and you tension it you're going to get binding all across these shear lines so going in and trying to lift pins up you're almost always going to not pick them all at the right shear line you're going to catch some top some low you're not going to get it picked Matt Blaise did the math on this and you know the odds and the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly are not good there is however manufactured by our good friends at Peterson something called a finger wrench which can stick in the lock let me actually switch up here there is a tension wrench that has little fingers on it it's hard to see can you see those what that does is stick into the key way stick completely through the bottom of the key way because there is holes in the bottom these holes don't actually serve a purpose in the locks function what they do is allow an ejector tool to stick into the lock if you want to pop the pins out and manage your pinning but if you reach down through these holes you can actually engage just the control sleeve by just engaging the control sleeve you're only going to tension the top shear line go in with a regular pick, set the pins this is not as easy as it sounds and then turn the control sleeve and eject the entire core this is one example in what I'm going to kind of wrap up at the end talking about the idea that disclosing these vulnerabilities helps us oh by the way this is anyone going to know this, this will be for a question I can't hear what you're saying I don't really understand what you mean oh it's not unlocked you're just pulling the whole thing out and you can look down and there's little pins that you can flip and go ahead pardon me yeah with the core out you can eject the pins right out of it and get the entire not only that if it's a mastered system you can get the entire master scheme for the entire facility and so forth does anyone know who originally came up with this design for this finger wrench for a hard drive and a red bull no not Barry somebody at Peterson Peterson makes these no not Ken good guess though anybody if you don't know it, a guy named Jerry Finch very smart cat, question right well that's closer to the rotating constant system I can talk about that I'm going to talk about that a little later one more question and then we're going to try to fire through the rest of these and any more questions if we run out of time you're going to have the whole hands on time to talk to me pardon yes very good point this is why I'm so pleased with this information coming out he mentions that there are new sleeve designs in fact Matt when he first talked about this he took his control sleeve and just cut the holes really huge in the bottom you can still stick an ejector tool in there it doesn't hurt but there's nothing for the finger wrench to grab on to and I believe best manufacture sleeves like this now you mentioned that sometimes the control sleeves are in segments so yeah the fact that this was publicly discussed means that it's safer for everyone now and people are retrofitting their locks with better sleeves it's a very very good thing to talk about alright real quick if you how many people are enjoying this how many people want to get more knowledge more involved that's what I like to hear there's plenty of books you can read there's a lot of good places to go online let's shoot through some of these real fast these slides are all online by the way and I'll tell you at the end so we can really flip through this two of the best books that I know of very intro very beginners very what do you want to know immediately first is steel bolt hacking by Douglas Chick Doug was here last year I don't know if he's here this year his books probably are in the vendor area somewhere the high end is written by the gentleman who spoke before us today Mark Tobias wrote a book called locks safes and security that's called by many people to lockpick bible it's just like the history of locks starting in ancient Egypt forward it's a very very good tone of knowledge online you can google for the MIT guide to lockpicking it's hosted at a few places some of the videos I'm showing you were cropped from Barry's presentations available here there's a lot of informative pages all these links you don't have to scribble them right now there's going to be all up at the end there are sport picking groups there are hobbyist groups there's a lot of fun things you can get involved with that way with local people every con that you can go to now defcon back east in the hope cons what the hack is happening now in Europe there's sport picking competitions usually in fact you know Kaigoth and the DC719 crew are running that this year again they do a great job of it there's groups I mentioned Barry's group tool the German group which I think has a thousand members it's really huge what's from the technical tool USA we recently founded with Barry's blessing we're based out of Princeton University if there's any people near you you know meet people here talk and go home get together and play with stuff you know take it apart it's excellent to do with friends or as an individual activity I take a train up to Newark to go to school and I'll just sit there you know just fussing with lockpicks on the train just pop and stuff open it's a great way to pass the time you get a few strange looks but you're not doing anything very illegal sort of we're gonna cover that now in legal section you gotta hold the question I'm sorry we're gonna run out of time if we don't sorry buying picks southern guys excellent excellent picks for starter kits they're very simple the Peterson manufacturing company makes very nice high-end equipment you can get stuff here I know the guys from IVU are around check out their table check out some of our stuff in the hands-on area if you want to just pick them up from us you can make your own we'll cover all kind of fun stuff but we're gonna have our grinder tools out we're gonna make some picks and make some fun stuff in the hands-on session those of you with legal concerns I am not a lawyer I am not sleeping with one this is not legal advice take it for what it's worth check your local laws to purchase, ship and in general just be involved in the transportation of picks there is a federal standard the federal standard is a five point eligibility you can be a lock manufacturer you can be law enforcement you can be in the auto business you can be a repo man or you can be a bonafide locksmith the lawyers in the room will tell you bonafide meaning in good faith it doesn't mean a professional locksmith it doesn't mean a certified locksmith it just means you have a good faith interest in locksmithing in many circles check with a lawyer in many circles this is extended to hobbyist and academic interest I gotta have you wait for the question non-criminal interest in this you are covered under that part of the law if you're dealing with a vendor and they say you have to fill out this form check box number five and you should be clear possession of lock picks however can be squirrely lock picks per se are not illegal burglary tools are illegal depends where but generally yes burglary tools what makes a burglary tool intent intent is much of the law most laws every state by the way the lockpick101.com those guys are lockpicking101.org or com we'll check it again they have a whole legal section you can get all the information you need basically if you have demonstrable intent that you're trying to commit a crime you are you know you've got a whole other bag of shit you're trying to deal with if you're just a guy on a subway and they're doing fascist crap in New York and they say what are these lockpicks well you're a guy friggin riding a subway I wasn't going to go somewhere and pick a lock no there's no intent that you are going to do anything if you are squatting behind Best Buy at 3 in the morning at the back door and a cop's like what are you doing you're like I'm taking a piss and they find lockpicks on you you've got a whole different situation you're in there so be aware of that many states do not have intent laws or they have kind of more draconian laws we can cover that later on or talk to a lawyer these are states of concern with what are called prima facia evidence laws it's all kind of relative just keep intent in mind and also if you do anything else illegal sometimes possession of a lockpick can escalate that crime for instance if you're trespassing a lot of people here like urban exploring if you're somewhere you're not supposed to be you might turn a meter trespass charge into a criminal trespass charge because you had picks on you keep it in mind check with a lawyer there's plenty of lawyers here talk to the people who know acquiring locks I'll shoot through this real fast basically the last the main thing is just don't go crazy buying them all over most locks are the same everyone who gets real oh I can pick it's fun you go to the hardware store you drop 60 bucks you got a ton of the same lock look through your basement look through old stuff that relatives have left in a box somewhere exotic designs you can get really nice what are called training kits I have one that you can play with that at the hands on where it's you know they're key the same but it's only like a one pin stack then a two pin stack then a three so you can actually get the feel for it and get started that way there's a lot of really good places you can acquire locks ask me about later so how does this all break down into the real world what does this really bear on in the big picture they mentioned in the last talk it's very valid criminals don't tend to use lock picks I'm not saying no one ever picks a lock with criminal intent but usually yeah you're going to get a boot to the door anybody who was watching sneakers on the deaf con movie channel last night you know they just kick the door down brute force is what criminals use don't buy the most expensive lock on the shelf and put it you know in a you know a non solid core door with like a balsa wood frame just you know with little quarter inch screws situate the lock properly consider the overall scope of it I mentioned you know if a guy can sit there next to your server room or your records room picking a lock for an hour why don't you have a security camera near that door why don't you have a security guard who occasionally walks by keep big keep the big picture in mind what make good locks I always get asked this so I put this page in just to shoot down a few names I don't work for any of these guys they just kind of impress me those medicos with the biaxial pins I love them to death the balsa v10 for the slight flaw that it has it's still magnificent those best FICs they're very hard to pick they're very nice to do logistics of large scale deployment Abbas that was what Barry was picking the rotating disc lock they make a very very nice strong lock American we're going to talk about a little bit more at my very end slide but they tend to make good things and if anybody here is in the military by the way anybody who can score me one of these bad boys can leave 833 I've heard I've heard told that if you come across one of these somewhere far far away there's a lieutenant screaming at a corporal as to why it's not inventory properly because they're not supposed to get out there you got one you got one that's what I've heard these are armory locks these are these are a medico biaxial core situated in what is the most beautifully designed and engineered housing I've ever seen in my life yes some bad locks stand out I've been kind of beaten up on master for this talk and I don't like to all the time because they make a high end model just no one buys them because they keep friggin making shitty models that everyone buys because they're cheap quick set everyone who's ever got a door in your house that has a quick set you'll shit your pants when you pick it in three seconds keep in mind you get what you pay for if there's three different locks on the shelf one costs nothing one costs middle and one costs a lot chances are the expensive ones going to be better if you're in the American marketplace if you know it's a free market system if you're a recognizable name you can't keep producing garbage year after year and people aren't going to keep buying your product unless you're Microsoft you know just if it's a reputable brand and it's expensive you're probably half way there you picked a quick set with a popsicle stick wouldn't surprise me keep playing with these locks keep experimenting security is achieved through openness not just in the digital world we should not be so eager to be hushed up when we discover things in the physical world craziness next door the American 700 is a story I love to tell because it's a complete example of this phenomenon talking around at night every storefront is closed down with a big honkin sucker most always storefronts and big where brute force or some guy with a crowbar is going to be the assault is going to be either an American lock or a clone of an American lock this is their 700 series lock it's a very nice padlock it has a flaw however which was discovered this lock is a removable core you can see that when the lock is unlocked you can unscrew from the inside drop the 8 plate off eject the core, the core is a nice little thing this core interfaces with the double ball control cylinder by means of the core has a raised half circle piece and the control cylinder has a raised quarter circle piece can you guys see that how they just fit together and when they're together they turn and they engage Peterson makes this tool called the American bypass tool this is the bypass tool and if I stick this all the way down and I beat this tool to hell that opens that lock why is that? well, it's because if you're looking at this core, this ejected core this is the back end of it the keyway is visible the keyway is cut all the way through and the Peterson tool the bypass tool just has a little hockey stick kind of end it slips all the way down through the keyway and it spins that second cylinder it just fits right in and just turns it it's a very elegant bypass it's got a lot of attention but American is a great company instead of trying to sue people over this instead of trying to make a huge fuss American just came out with something called a security wafer they're hard to order but they do have a part number you can find them by some vendors you can take your core, eject it out and put this security wafer in it's literally, I love how it's like the digital world it's like they released a patch so it's like a hot fix you put the lock back together and you can't stick the American tool down the keyway never one to be discouraged Ken came up with this which is a wafer breaker kit you stick these down you stick these down the keyway you smash on them and those wafers are spread out in their history so we'll see what happens next I would like to think Americans a good company chances are they're going to try to come up with something even better and Ken's going to come up with something better and the end result is better security for all of us because we talk about it the vendors address it that's not a bad thing you know this is we know about all of this you guys all we know about security through obscurity versus real security in the digital world think about it the same way in the real world it's no different Matt Blaise wrote a couple of great papers about this I have the links later ultimately I like to kind of wrap it up by saying don't be super trusting of anything when I was real young my dad was in the service and he had his issue weapons in the house when I was growing up he showed me guns when I was real little he's showing me how this is how it's open he's showing me how you can look down the barrel he's saying why am I showing you this because a gun is not safe a gun is not okay unless you've seen that it's safe you're not protected unless you've seen it what did I just tell you and I was like a gun's not safe unless I know it's safe it's not safe unless you've seen that it's safe see it for yourself take things apart play with them don't just take people at their word we joke around and other guys are out walking around at night and we all take pictures oh the hacker salute deafcon salute this is more powerful than you know this is something that you should fly in the face of people who try to stop you from exploring nothing can be healthier than a really nice hearty fuck you to some people who say that learning about things is bad can I get everyone to practice this one time all together hey man those are trade secrets those are copyrighted you can't explore our designs just buy them the department of justice is in control leave it to your legislators we will pass laws that take care of you you don't have to know how things work why are you trying to explore things you're just a criminal you're not interested in security exposing bad security is what protects us all thank you very much I could not have I'm sorry to say that I came up and did this on my own Barry, Matt, Mike here render man who you've seen around with the fedora before everyone leaves it's going to be a Q&A everybody from tool, DC719 and Kaigoth, everybody in tool USA I got to thank them all we can do Q&A with the few minutes we've got here's all the links or if you want to go forward on time do you guys want to just break it down here I'll pack all this up we can meet in the contest area do some hands on work and we'll do questions there by and punch will be served at the contest area by the way if you're leaving leave through those doors doors to your left as you face the stage thank you