 We haven't had you on Avara before, we've got a lot of catching up to do, so where are we in terms of being the MP for Kensington, you know, how much is there still to be resolved when it comes to the aftermath of Grenfell, there's still people not being housed, promises broken. Yeah, it's horrible, it's really, really horrible. There are people who are rehoused and are feeling a bit better and getting their lives back on track and I'm absolutely delighted for those who are. We have about a hundred families on our books who are not, so they may be survivors or bereaved or evacuees who had to move out and because they're so traumatised and this isn't just, oh they don't want to look at that, no, no, no, they are genuinely seriously traumatised and I've heard some of the stories, some of the children have stopped developing physically, educationally and emotionally and there's all kinds of other issues. Some are really quite frightening and some people may never ever recover, I genuinely think that having spoken to, I work very closely with the NHS and the mental health services, substance abuse, a lot of people are really, really struggling and finding ways to alleviate that and ways which aren't healthy for them long term but there's also a lot of people who are just really getting depressed and after 15 months still in hotels which some of them are moved around regularly, I spoke to somebody the other day who went back to, a young woman went back to her hotel and they said, oh you haven't got a booking for tonight, here's your stuff and they just handed her, been in her room, cleared her stuff and just put it in bin bags and she had to go and find somewhere else and then call the counsellor next day and go through all that hassle and that's not the only time I've heard that quite a few times because there's just mismanagement there and a lack of care actually and some of the housing officers are getting fed up and angry and saying, oh if you don't take this flood then you don't love your children and really awful things, really quite shocking and as I say, people in very, very poor mental health and not being looked after as they should and it's shameful, it really is shameful, I'm ashamed actually to be part of a political system which has allowed that to happen and I feel so frustrated that there's very little I can do because I can't go and talk to the Secretary of State for whichever department it is and they sit there and they listen and go, oh that's awful, I didn't know that and then it's really nothing happens, I find it really frustrating, I'm there and I should be championing them and I am, it's very hard to make any change. There was a piece by the LRB recently about Grenfell Tower and it was written by Andrew Hagen and he said that one of the reasons why many of these people haven't been rehoused is because they're looking for the best deal and they're sort of saying that they're homeless, I mean obviously, how does that make you feel, because that for me almost feels like it's feeding into the most reactionary right wing things. I know and one of the issues is that he came out and he talked to an awful lot of people on the ground and a lot of people really opened up to him in a way that they hadn't to anyone else and people tell me anything because they know me, trust me, that's one thing but they opened up to him in the same way and he then turned it into a publication and then rather than supporting them his attitude flipped at some point and people don't understand why and I quite genuinely, there was one of the, a burry woman I saw in the street one day and this wasn't unusual actually and she came up to me and she just started sobbing and she said you I talked to him and I was like oh she's talking about Andrea Hagen and she was sobbing and said I couldn't believe what he did after I told him my story because I told him things I haven't even told you and this was somebody I'd known a long time before and she's absolutely distraught, saw it as a betrayal. It's exploitation right? These are super vulnerable people being exploited by supposedly progressive journalists. Well yes, exactly, exactly. We had a public meeting about it, people really upset about 70 people came to public meeting to discuss that publication and what had happened and how he turned it around because he talked to some of the former councillors and decided they're actually good sorts. Because they're like him right? They're sort of like basically affluent. Yeah yeah exactly and yeah it's shocking we've had so many people come into the area and try to exploit it in all kinds of different ways even if they think they're being caring they're actually there for themselves and not for the people who need it and that's really difficult. They don't even recognize it themselves sometimes. What do you mean by that? Like if you can be more specific? There are people who actually have have gone there because they need to be needed. Okay that's what you mean. So it's all paternalistic. I can't and there's some people who are very genuine all kinds of ways so I've given up my job to look to look after these people and I thought hmm how's your family coping with that then but they need to be needed and yeah it's it's really complicated and the reason that is happening is because the right help isn't there. It's a question for sort of everyone here related so when Grenfell when that fire first happened there was really sort of a sense that politics had changed you know it was it was just a tragedy that seemed to demonstrate all the problems of ignoring people who were poor fundamentally and of outsourcing responsibility for public services and public housing and of a society where in the center of a rich city poor people are treated with contempt because ultimately the powers that be want them to move so that that land can go to someone who can pay more for it and you know there was obviously that tweet where Clive Lewis said was it burn neoliberalism or something like that. Burn neoliberalism not people. Yeah so there was this idea that yeah this was a watershed moment in politics and I don't know if you think that that's something that was not or that was a moment that looked like it could have been a shift in British politics and never quite arrived or do you think there has been an effect. There has been actually there really has been and it's been smothered it is happening it is out there it is happening the communities around there have got very powerful very articulate they're self-educating self-organizing and all the different groups I've met or have communicated with all over the country who are doing different bits of work cladding over here architecture over here there's loads and it is shifting but what has happened is again using the council as a microcosm the council have quadrupled their media comes department and they put out fabulous press releases every day they think oh everything's great everyone's oh you know it looks so good and and similarly the government they're kind of they're drowning out they're they're hardened towards it they've hardened towards the whole issue of of Grenfell and they're trying to they're trying to spin the way out they're trying to get rid of it I've been trying to get a backbench debate on all the Grenfell issues for about eight months now and I hit a brick wall all the time so I've got 80 labor in pizza signed up we've got five conservatives and these are people who all stood up in parliament and spoke very movingly about the things they were concerned with but they won't sign they won't sign the paper to to support a motion to have a debate about it why well I was told that there were two things that could topple the government last year one of them was Kensington going worried and the other one was Grenfell so I don't know whether or not that's true but it has actually made a massive difference and it's up to everybody to make that happen actually but it's been drowned out by the right-wing press and by the most incredible media comes system that that is smothering it but it is there it has happened it just happening yeah I think like in response to your question like nationally I think it's like we're really frustrating because at the time I remember like it it being kind of like everyone just assuming that that's what was going to happen that was going to bring down the government or whatever yeah and although like in my head I remember thinking like I I don't like if they are still in power like I don't understand what it could take to like make them like not cling on anymore like as long as they're still there like they've got the power basically um but it's just it's just mad how kind of quickly everyone moves on like not kind of willingly per se but like things just move dead fast and like the press have moved on yeah and and the media comes have moved on yeah but it's still happening yeah and there are still people mobilizing out there and and you know self-learning and all you know they are getting they're getting ready out there um for different ways of working and a lot of different groups I've spoken to the ROBA the Royal Institute of British Architects and the Association of insurers and all kind all these people are shifting the way things work all of them are but it's not being acknowledged because because it's trying to you know people in authority trying to drown it out but it is happening