 We'll call the 12th regular meeting of the Common Council to order. Sue, would you call the roll please? Bowman? Here. Berg? Here. Bonet? Here. Serta? Here. Graf? Here. Manny? Here. Montemayor? Here. Perez? Here. Van Der Wiel? Here. Wangeman? Here. And Warner? Here. 14 present. Horms Present. Alderman Warner. One minute please. Thank you, Your Honor. I move that the minutes of the last Common Council meeting of September 7th and the special meeting of September 13th be approved and that the same stand is entered on the record. We have motion before it's in second at the minutes of the previous Council meeting and the special Council meeting be approved. Under discussion. Carrying none. All in favor? Opposed? Motion carried. This evening with us we have Troop 890 from Holy Name and St. Clemence and their sculpt master is Chris Sweeten, correct? And would the boys like to come up and lead us in a pledge, please? Where's the mic? One of you can lead it. Scouts salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Two. This evening we also have Shabuigan County Triad with us this evening, Shabuigan County like crime stoppers, neighborhoods against drugs and members of the neighborhood watch. Thank you all for being here this evening. That's been issues. This was a letter that was submitted to the business improvement district manager and board of directors from James Hansen advising that due to a change in his career path he's retiring from Yonkers Effect of August 1, 2004 and he's tendering his resignation from the business improvement district board. That can be accepted and filed. And this is dated today's date. Hereby submit the following appointments to the business improvement district for your consideration. Jane Davis Wood to be considered for the unexpired term of James Hansen whose term expires 9, 16, 0, 5 and reappoint Robert Hurrey, Alan Rednick, Greg Wegeman and Richard Granky for three year terms to expire 9, 14, 0, 7 signed by the mayor. And that will lie over. This evening we have an election of the board of water commissioners, Alderman Warner. I thank your honor and make a motion that nominations be received from the floor voting to be done by open ballot and if more than two candidates are nominated the candidate with the lowest number of votes be dropped from the list and balloting continue until one candidate receives a majority. And that's your honor. I would nominate Gerald R. Vandekrieg to serve on a three year term on the board of water commissioners. Let's vote on that second first. Let's vote on that. We don't need to roll, I don't think. All in favor of the motion? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Okay, now Alderman Warner. Again your honor, thank you. It is an honor to nominate Gerald R. Vandekrieg to serve on the board of water commissioners for a three year term. That's it. Okay, we have a motion, a second before us. Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? What's that, Alderman Warner? That's your honor. I move that the nominations be closed and the unanimous ballot be cast for Gerald R. Vandekrieg to the board of water works commissioners. A second before us. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Let's go over here. Jerry's here. Jerry, congratulations Jerry. On here you have Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce letter. Alderman Warner. Alderman Warner. Thank you, your honor. This came from Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce and it states Mayor James Sram and members of the Common Council City of Sheboygan. The 2004 PGA championship was an extraordinary opportunity for the City of Sheboygan to showcase its spirit and economic vitality to thousands of visitors, patrons, sponsors, gulfs, and the media. Our government leaders and personnel responded with characteristic hard work and dedication to ensure that the event would have a positive impact on visitors and on the area economy. Extraordinary cooperation to get the artistic sculptures in place, to clean the streets, to assist with placing signs, planning for traffic, getting the Mead Library fountain operational, and with overall beautification is commendable. On behalf of the 820 business members of the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce, we extend our appreciation. The positive impact of this event will resonate for years to come. The Chamber anticipates residual return visits from many who experienced this wonderful event in Sheboygan County. The City of Sheboygan presented itself with pride and class. We look forward to the 2007 U.S. Senior Open and other impending future gulf opportunities, such as the LPGA in 2009, the U.S. Open in 2012, and perhaps the Ryder Cup in return of the PGA. We appreciate very much for professional commitment made by various city departments during the 2004 PGA championship and look forward to continued cooperation for a very bright and successful future. Yours truly, Dolores E. Olson, Executive Director, and Dennis, Dr. Dennis Ledwig, the Chairman of the 2004 Chamber PGA Steering Committee. Thank you all, Lorna. A week for him, Sue. Excuse me, Eric Eson is first. Eric, if you could come over to the mic, please. And could you give me your home address, please? 3612 Rosewood Court. Rosewood? And you will have five minutes. As part of my responsibilities as the President of the Sheboygan Professional Police Association, I attended the special meeting last Monday night called to discuss the significant budget concerns for next year. To be blunt, I left that meeting with serious questions about the direction that this council is taking us and the commitment to solving these issues in a responsible way. I speak for all 68 of our members when I say that as a resident, taxpayer, and employee of the city, I am appalled and angered at the triviality that surrounded that last meeting. By the council scheduling this meeting 45 minutes early and hardly asking any questions of all the department heads that were present, despite the doom and gloom scenarios presented, this group conveyed, to us at least, that making it home in time for kickoff in the Monday night packer game was more important. Meanwhile, some of the officers I represent believe they won't have a job come January 1st. These are officers who have recently purchased a home in Sheboygan, moved their families here, and begun a career dedicated to serving our community. And it doesn't help their peace of mind that every couple of days we get a new bottom line number from the mayor's office as to what we have to cut. No doubt you are faced with some serious tough decisions. But their decisions they have for the most part resulted directly from the action or inaction of this council. At the meeting last Monday, a comment was made that we should be proud that we had a 0% tax-level increase last year and have held a line on taxes over the last couple of years. And I agree, as a taxpayer, I would like to pay as little tax as necessary, trim the fat, make things run more efficiently, but cut 13 cops off the street, eliminate 11 firefighters? I'm not proud of that. And to suggest such drastic measures is irresponsible and absurd. And I don't discount the effect that the proposed cuts would have on other city departments. But in times like these, you must prioritize, between emergency and non-emergency services as has been proposed, is imprudent and borders on negligent. Emergency services, particularly law enforcement, are of the greatest importance to our citizens, above all else. A shortage of police manpower directly affects the safety and security of each one of us in this community. When our phone rings at the police department, we must be adequately able to respond. Our dispatchers, rarely if ever, have the opportunity to say, well, we'll try to get to that later today, or we're a little short staff today, call back tomorrow. Because of the nature of our job, what we do for this community demands that we respond as quickly as possible. Ask yourself, does it really matter if the city provides all these other services that I'm used to if I don't feel safe? We as police officers are the last line of defense sometimes. We are a 24-7, 365-day year operation. Our department handled over 44,000 complaints last year and has already gone over 53,000 complaints this year. That doesn't include the 37,000 follow-ups that we do. When people have a problem and they don't know where else to go for help, they call the police. Whether your car breaks down on the highway or you're an elderly widow and your pilot light goes out on your furnace in the middle of January or you're a mother of two and some guy is in the street in front of your house trying to kill you and your kids. That actually happened, if you recall, May 18, 2003. It was a typical busy night and I was reporting early for work because we were short staffed, everyone was busy, and non-priority calls were stacking up. Before I even got the headquarters, I was dispatched to that call alone. No immediate backup because everyone was busy. Thankfully, that incident resulted in the apprehension of the suspect with no injuries to civilians, but it could have been worse. Because we were short staffed, we did not have the adequate manpower to maintain a perimeter and we were lucky that the professionalism and bravery of the few officers that were there was enough to end this unthinkable scenario. But unfortunately, these circumstances, officer safety and ultimately public welfare are jeopardized on a daily basis when we continue to run short staffed. Drug use and drug related crime is on the rise. Violent crime still challenges our community and homeland security is an ever present concern. These are times when we should be trying to add police officers to the street, not scraping to catch up, and certainly not threatening to lay off what amounts to almost an entire shift of police officers. In closing, I urge you to prioritize city services when considering budget cuts and the impact that those cuts would have on public safety. Thank you. Chris Damcott. Chris, could you please give me your home address? 942 page court in Sheboygan. 942 page. And you have five minutes. My name is Christine Damcott. I'm here representing the public safety dispatchers for the city of Sheboygan Police Department. I'm here to speak about the budget reductions and what impact it will have on the city's dispatch center personnel. Dispatch center personnel, 85% of our budget is personnel. That means the cutting of approximately two dispatch part-time positions. Public safety communications budget has been reduced for the past three years. And in 2004, we lost one part-time position due to budget reductions, and we're not able to rehire that position. It's very obvious to those of us who understand the emergency dispatch function that the loss of two additional people would totally shut down functions on the third shift and leave personnel on that shift with no relief for breaks, vacations, sick time and emergency situations where they would have to leave work due to emergencies or family illness. Because of the shortage of personnel, supervisors would be responsible for handling the desk duties in addition to their normal workloads, and officers would also have to handle complaints on the road that are currently being handled by the desk shift personnel dispatcher. Due to these working conditions, it may also result in unwanted operations, which would further jeopardize not only our operation but also the officers on the street and the citizens of Sheboygan. This in turn could result in possible lawsuits for the city when we are unable to answer and respond in a timely fashion to a 9-1-1 call because the operator was busy doing something else or was not trained to handle the situation. There's a tremendous amount of training time and money invested in the dispatchers that we currently have employed with our department. We have 15 weeks of full-time on-the-job training and a full year of probation to learn the high stress jobs associated with these positions. We cannot expect the remaining dispatchers to work double shifts with no time off under these conditions and we certainly cannot expect the citizens of Sheboygan not to call 9-1-1 after 11 p.m. due to layoffs as there will not be enough personnel to handle the call. It is important for us to all remember that dispatchers are the first responders that come to our department for our police, fire and EMS assistance. Dispatchers are the first link in the whole chain of preparedness and response no matter what the emergency is and unfortunately we are a resource that is often taken for granted. In addition to handling all the emergencies we must know how to operate sophisticated technology computers and radio systems and communicate with other police agencies. We are the first point of contact for anyone who comes to City Hall to do business and we also handle all of the walk-in traffic, type of all reports, arrest logs, data entry, taken fine money and handle overflow calls such as 9-1-1 and on the business line. Last year dispatchers handled 1,440 police related complaints over the phone that would otherwise would have required an officer to handle, therefore lowering their workload. I would like to personally invite anyone to come in and sit in our center to view for themselves the amount of stress and workload we are under each and every day. In addition to all of the items mentioned above our utmost priority still remains to be the safety of the officers on the street and to the citizens of Sheboygan and in order to accomplish this we need to be fully staffed. There is absolutely no more room to cut in our department and yet still continue to provide the safety and services to the citizens of Sheboygan. I cannot stress enough how this would impact our department and the services we provide. If the mayor and the council are truly concerned about the public safety for the citizens of Sheboygan and the officers on the road protecting the citizens they will need to prioritize the budget and realize that the laying off of emergency police fire and EMS call takers and dispatchers is a mistake that will cost them much more in the long run than in the part 10 positions. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Mr. Frank Kolkzan? Yes sir, could you give me your home address please? I live at 2829 Erie Avenue. And you will have five minutes sir. Okay, thank you. I'm here to make some comments about the Sheridan Park. I don't live near Sheridan Park but I teach a Sheridan school. I've taught there for good many years and several years ago I also had an extended tenure there. I've gotten to know the students and their families and I believe that the park has value to them, great value and I can empathize with them because I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in Chicago and I know that things like a park are important when you don't have a big backyard and when you don't have a lot of other recreation available to you. I want you to know that I'm going to add something to my remarks because of what I heard from the police and the dispatcher today that if you said to me well Frank if you want Sheridan Park and police service and the dispatcher you're going to have to pay more taxes and I'll look at you and I'll say you know what I'm not one of those people who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. I know the value of our police department. I know the value of our dispatchers and if you tell me that I have to pay an additional price by paying the higher taxes I'll say so be it. I remember a quote by Oliver Wendell Holmes he said taxes are the price you pay for living in a civilized society. My blue collar uncle said much more succinctly with a little different slant he said Frankie remember this you don't get nothing for nothing so if I want police service and a dispatcher and Sheridan Park tax me some more I'll accept it because I know the value of these things now I would like to take the next three minutes because I know exactly it's going to take three minutes to present my remarks about Sheridan to light in the evening and to get the message across I have set this to a lively tune and you may not agree with the lyrics but it's a jaunty tune that might entertain you. So now Sheridan Park is a treasure a gem to preserve and enjoy its value is clear to all people accept those councilmen who turn a blind eye accept those councilmen who turn a blind eye accept those councilmen who turn a blind eye its value is clear to all people accept those councilmen who turn a blind eye they're blind to the green space and tall trees they don't give a hoot for the rest They'd pave over Eden with concrete and tell us that they know what's best. They focus on bottom line numbers and ignore what the neighborhood needs. Why should they most aren't going to live there? Just let the destruction proceed. Just let the destruction proceed. Just let the destruction proceed. Why should they most aren't going to live there? Just let the destruction proceed. Say let's take all the parks and build on them lots of property tax we'd collect. Why shouldn't parks be subdivided when the bottom line's all you respect? When the bottom line's all you respect? The bottom line's all you respect? Why shouldn't parks be subdivided when the bottom line's all you respect? Meanwhile shared in park is our focus. We want women teenagers and men to talk to their reps on the council. Let them know that they must vote again. Let them know that they must vote again. Let them know that they must vote again. So talk to your reps on the council. Let them know that they must vote again. One more verse. The council can vote and reveal. This is a punch line. What matters to them but ignore. What the citizens say is important. They should listen or be vote out the door. They should listen or be vote out the door. They should listen or be vote out the door. What the citizens say is important. They should listen or be vote out the door. Thank you. John Burner. Mr. Burner, can you give me your home address? 1919 Broadway. I'm sorry? 1919 Broadway. 1919 Broadway. School teacher didn't learn how to tell time, did he? And you have five minutes, sir. Okay. I watched a common council meeting last week and I listened to the department heads say how they were going to trim down their department. But I yet to hear one department head say what he was going to trim for himself. I think when you trim, you kind of start at the top and work down. And for the police and fire, those are the last things you want to cut. There's stuff going on in the city and it's escalating. And the cut police department, fire service? I mean, you're just saying to people that are committing crimes, hey, free for all. Hey, just help yourself. You don't cut there. And for Sheridan Park, everybody hates to see a park goal. But some things have to be given up for others to benefit. And to say, well, you'd rather pay more taxes. There's a lot of people don't have that extra money to pay taxes. They don't. They live on a fixed income. I'm making a whole whopping lemon grand this year. I mean, my medical expenses are over a thousand a year. Taxes 24, more taxes. That's not including the gas electricity. Now, you can't save everything for everybody. But I think the people on fixed incomes should be allowed to live in their houses as long as they can. And not because somebody wants to save something that can increase taxes. To them, the increase doesn't mean anything. But to the people that don't have it, it does mean something. Thank you. Less than five. Thank you. Penny Weber, please. Penny, can you give me your home address, please? 1712 Sunnyside Avenue. Sunnyside. And you will have five minutes. Okay. I'm Penny Weber. I'm a citizen member of Neighbors Against Drugs. And I'm also a citizen member of Sheboygan County White Crime Stoppers. I'd like to say a few words tonight about the police department and obviously specifically about the community policing unit. Neighbors Against Drugs was the idea of Todd Prebe, who was one of the community policing officers. It has allowed citizens in this community to have a voice, to help in solving some of the problems in their neighborhood. These people thought that there wasn't any place they could turn. And yet they found that there was. There was a community policing officer that cared enough, went out into the community and told them, you can help and this group of citizens can help. And we've been out in the community and done some things with getting rid of the sale of illegal drugs in neighborhoods. The other thing is that most times police are reactive. They respond to calls because there's trouble. The community policing department is proactive. It goes out and tries to find the root of the problem and then tries to come up with a solution and allows those neighbors and citizens such as myself to have a hand in doing something good. Many times you hear negative things about police departments because they remember getting stopped for a speeding ticket or whatever the case may be. But with community policing, you're out and you're showing the citizens that they're there to help. And that should be a common sense thing, but it's not necessarily so. So I would like to see community policing continue in some way to allow the citizens to continue to have a say in what happens and know that they have the power if they band together to do something good and to get rid of some of the things that have caused problems in the neighborhood. Now about the Shibuyin County White Crime Stoppers, it's a little different effort. There we actually put out a reward for people that will help solve crimes that law enforcement has hit a dead end on. And by hoping that citizens will come forward and offer information so that crimes can be solved, we're there and we fundraise and offer rewards and allow them to give information being anonymous. They don't have to worry about repercussions or anything else. And it's the same thing with neighbors against drugs. When we're out in the neighborhood and we canvass and we get the information and we know that there's a problem, when we go and do something, when we put our signs out, every neighbor gets one except for the suspected drug house. So the neighbors are all looking at each other and saying we can do this together. And I think that's very important. And I would like to see that kind of effort continue. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, no one has anything to pull ahead. Consent agenda. Everything from 12-1 to 12-29 except 12-26. First we'll start with 12-4. 12-4 will lie over until October 18. 12-26, 12-26 we will hold. And I believe that was the only two. Alderman Warner. I think I just would like to mention on 12-26 the reason that's being held is there is a possibility that Homeland Security grant funds might be able to cover the city's cost in this. And that is being looked into. So we're hoping that that does come through. Save $32,000, $35,000 if it does come through fruition. So on that, your honor, I would move that all ROs be accepted and placed on file. All ROCs be accepted and adopted. And all resolutions, substitute resolutions and ordinances be passed. Move to second at all. ROs be accepted and filed. ROCs accept and adopted. Resolutions and ordinances be put upon your passing. 12-1 through 12-29 under discussion. Alderman Vanderwill. Thank you, Mr. Sherman. Thank you, your honor. Could I pull 12-28? I don't see why the public works. I just like an explanation of the intention of this report to committee. Alderman Ballemann or do you want Tom Houlton? This is for a schematic design for a pedestrian bridge over the Cheboygan River to serve South Pier. And there's money that was approved in the capital improvements program for this year of $35,000. We're looking for a design so we can go out and apply for federal grants to try to get that bridge constructed. We need to know if it's feasible to build, what will work before we can ask those questions as to get the grant monies. As of now, do we know how much that study will cost? $35,000. For the study? Yeah. Okay. I would ask for a separate vote on this. We'll do that first. Alderman Perez on 12-28. Yes, your honor. I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch. How much does it cost? $35,000. $35,000? Yes. Where's that money coming from? Out of TIF-6. TIF-6? Yes. She wanted a separate vote on 12-28. Okay, let's do that first. On 12-28, would you call the roll please? Ballemann. Berg. Hi. Boney. Hi. Serta. Hi. Graf. Hi. Manny. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Perez. No. Peterson. No. Rindflash. No. Segali. No. Van Akron. No. Vanderweel. No. And Warner. Hi. Ten eyes, four nose. Okay, carry. Alderman Warner on 12-27, if I probably could actually say the correct name for the contract to purchase a truck rest and body for the third department rescue vehicle. Does that go along with 12-26? It doesn't. No. Okay, there's no other questions on a consent agenda. Would you call the roll please? Berg. Hi. Boney. Hi. Serta. Hi. Graf. Hi. Manny. Montemayor. Hi. Perez. Hi. Peterson. Hi. Rindflash. Hi. Segali. Hi. Van Akron. Hi. Vanderweel. Hi. Warner. Hi. And Bowman. Hi. Fourteen eyes. Motion carried. 12-30 through 12-33 to be referred. 12-34 can be accepted and placed on file. Alderman Warner. Excuse me, Alderman Boney. Sometimes the vice chairman of the committee I think. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd like to accept and file the report of officer. Second. We'll be second to accept and file the report of committee. Under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. 12-35 through 12-40 to be referred. 12-41 by Alderman Graf. Increasing the purchase of land in the Shibuygan Business Center and deleting one of the selling policies. Alderman Graf. And I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Move to second that the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Alderman Boney, Vanderweil, Serta. Back up, Alderman Boney. Oh, okay, got a little ahead here. Okay, repealing a recreating substitute of a resolution which establishes a period in which the common council meeting whereby people are allowed to speak on any subject relevant to city government. Okay, Alderman Boney. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd like to make a motion that the resolution be put upon its passage. Move to second the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. 12-43 by Alderman Graf, Stefan, Berg, Manny, and Montenegro. Amending the debt policy for the city's limit on the annual debt insurance up to $3 million per year for non-TIFF projects, Alderman Graf. Your Honor, I would move that that resolution be put upon its passage. Let's move to second that the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Under discussion, just so that everybody's aware of it. A positive vote on this would mean that the debt to be issued for the police facility for $8.8 million in 2006 and the debt for City Hall remodeling at $4 million in 2008 would not come into play when we're talking about a limit of $3 million on our capital borrowings. Is there any other discussion? Alderman Sugelli. Do I understand you right where you're saying the police station's not going to be built or not thinking of being built until 2006? That's when the borrower wing takes place, in 2006. Okay, so we have to wait until that time. Well, I believe there's funds available in 2005 to start some preliminary work, but the majority of it will be in 2006, that is correct. Alderman Orner? No, that's right. Okay. Would you call the roll, please? Sirta. Hi. Graf. Hi. Manny. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Perez. Hi. Peterson. Hi. Rindflush. Hi. Sagali. Hi. Van Akron. Hi. Vanderweal. Hi. Warner. Hi. Bowman. Hi. Berg. Hi. Ann Bonet. 1245 through 1249 to be referred. 1250 by law and licensing, recommended dying class B, fermented beverage license, and class III wine license, 2278 based upon the applicant's previous record of violation and the committee's standards for issuing license. Alderman Bonet. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd like to motion and accept and adopt the report of committee. Second. We have a motion to second before us under discussion. Under discussion. Next. A request of Jose Hernandez is present. As well, Mr. President. Any motion to open the floor to us? Second. Okay. We have a motion before us in a second under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you for the opportunity to speak here tonight. As I just mentioned, my client is Jose Hernandez. Mr. Hernandez is here tonight and is actually in the back, so we'll speak in a moment to you. But I guess I'd like to start by explaining a little bit about Mr. Hernandez. He came before the Law and Licensing Committee and tonight you've heard they'll recommend to deny his application. However, Mr. Hernandez feels he retained an attorney, I think, kind of to make sure that his best foot is put forward in this. After meeting with the committee, he doesn't feel like he, I don't want to say understood, but he didn't know what the committee wanted and he doesn't feel like he did a good job so I'm taking this opportunity tonight to try to rectify any of those concerns that the committee may have had and also to allow an opportunity to Mr. Hernandez to speak to the full council. Mr. Hernandez was a over 20-year employee of Planko. He retired about two years ago. He has been bartending since and now would like to open an establishment at 1015 South 10th Street by the name of Escondallo. His establishment would cater largely to the growing Hispanic population in Sheboygan and he has invested substantial amounts of time and resources already in this venture. He signed a year lease for the premises and seeks to open the business as soon as possible if he is able to obtain the license he has applied for. After meeting with the committee at Mr. Hernandez's understanding that they have two concerns. One, he did receive a citation over a year ago for serving minors. Now, this requires this is a long and somewhat convoluted story but it requires at least a little bit of explanation. He was a bartender being employed as a bartender and the police did indeed find minors drinking an establishment. Mr. Hernandez did not serve the minors. However, he was there and took responsibility for the serving of the minors and accepts that responsibility today. He has not yet paid the fine in that matter. It was his understanding, his employer at the time said they were going to pay the fine. They have not and Mr. Hernandez has contacted the court in effort to set up a payment plan as it's a substantial fine I think of roughly $800. Addressing any concerns with his new establishment, Mr. Hernandez wants to make sure nothing like that would occur. He proposes that he would have a bouncer at the door essentially to check IDs and stop any problems before they even enter the establishment. In addition, it's my understanding that the committee has another concern that a few warnings were issued for an establishment that Mr. Hernandez worked at as a bartender being open too late. Again, Mr. Hernandez acknowledges responsibility, perhaps a misunderstanding of the law at least for the first violation and again pleads with the council that he's willing to work with law enforcement, learn the laws of the city and seeks only to open an establishment that is free and void of any of the problems or mistakes that were made in the past. He just, he really seeks the council to have an open mind on this. He, in fact, he's instructed me to take a proactive approach to try to help him understand the laws, help him comply with law enforcement and I did that starting today. I contacted, it's interesting that Neighbors Against Drugs is here tonight. I had contacted some law enforcement officers from Neighbors Against Drugs in an effort to help Mr. Hernandez develop some policies to make sure that none of that element was in the establishment that he would open. He's agreed and he would like to, in fact, meet with people from Neighbors Against Drugs to help him along in that effort and whatever he can do and their help would be appreciated. In addition to that safeguard, Mr. Hernandez also will be posting signs in the establishment indicating that any unlawful activity or serving of minors or anything is prohibited and, in fact, he'll immediately call law enforcement. It's often said, I think, by law enforcement lawfully run establishment is to send that message that, in fact, laws will be complied with and those who don't comply with them we don't want them in our establishment. I think really what Mr. Hernandez is here tonight to do is to look for an opportunity to be given a chance to show the council the city law enforcement everyone that he can run a good establishment which caters to the population as a whole and specifically the Hispanic population and an establishment which will comply with the laws and work with law enforcement and do the best it can. I would like to give Mr. Hernandez an opportunity to briefly address the council in any questions, but before I do that, if anyone has any questions for me at all, I'd be happy to entertain any questions at all or any discussion from anyone on the law and licensing committee which has possibly additional questions that weren't answered tonight or would like something. Excuse me, sir, Alderman Serta. Thank you, Your Honor. Steve, how much I can share with some of the things that were discussed in that committee because due to Mr. Hernandez's reputation is there any restraints as far as talking and discussing? Okay, I just wanted to make sure for Mr. Hernandez. This was not the first time he was present in front of law and licensing, so number one he did have a past history of violations that he was doing while being a buyer-tender and there was actually more to the story about what was said. I made sure that I specifically asked Mr. Hernandez because when he explained the situation about the citation he received he was on the premises not working and there was a gentleman who was serving at that time who did not have a license to serve alcohol and had served the minors and Mr. Hernandez took it upon himself to jump behind the bar and take responsibility to help that other gentleman and I use the word help because those were the exact words that Mr. Hernandez had said, I help that gentleman, I help that gentleman and I asked Mr. Hernandez, do you feel that you helped him even though you had break in the law and in his mind he was helping him and I explained that him now asking to be the owner of the bar how much more of a responsibility in setting a precedent and being law-abiding and that I had a hard time with believing that he would be able to follow that out. Thank you. Alderman Montemar, you had your light on before, do you still want to speak? No, long pass, thank you. Alderman Perez. Thank you, Mayor. I have a question for Mr. Hernandez's attorney. Is it your impression I seem to get a feel that perhaps Mr. Hernandez needed a translator during that time that he wasn't able to understand some of what was happening during that meeting? I think a translator may have been helpful and I think at the very least he just didn't grasp completely what he was being asked and what was being asked of him. A translator or possibly someone else there to assist him in directing him because I do agree, I don't think he completely grasped what the committee was trying to ask him and what he might provide to the committee. And if I get a... Go ahead, hang on a minute. Question, Attorney Rosemius, before you go. Mr. Hernandez's address I know we, our office sent out certified mail dated September 15th to Mr. Hernandez at 334st Boulevard in Sheboygan Falls and it came back undelivered. And with the forwarding address because we request a return receipt and came back with the Laredo, Texas address so I'd like to know what your client's address is. Mr. Hernandez actually moved to Sheboygan in hopes of being closer to the establishment and running it. Laredo, Texas, I guess you can address that with him but it's my understanding he's moved to Sheboygan. I don't have the address in front of me but certainly he will provide it. He's currently renting in Sheboygan trying to be closer to his place of business. One thing you could... Mr. Hernandez should be aware of and you as a counsel should advise him. It's important when applying for licenses and if you have a license to keep the city through the clerk's office informed of any change of address it's particularly helpful if we need to contact the owner of the establishment that we can track him down. Absolutely. Excuse me sir. Alderman Berg? Thank you, Your Honor. Didn't you say he worked at Plastics Engineering? He works at Planko for roughly 25 years and retired from there and is now retired and bartending and hoping to open this business. So he did work at Planko for about 25 years. And to go back and address the comment or the statement regarding the helping of the other employee that's an accurate rendition of what occurred and why Mr. Hernandez received the citation. Indeed he wasn't working at the time and apparently the owner of the establishment had put on shift a bartender without a license. Mr. Hernandez wasn't the establishment that did work there but wasn't working at the time and did take responsibility. He understands and will explain to you more than anyone the mistake in what he did. At the time I think he viewed it as something that had to be done, there was no one else there to take responsibility and he stepped up and did so. That being said he'll tell you today I'm sure that that was a mistake and he is really and sincerely from talking to him I can tell you he is really sincerely interested in working with law enforcement not only to help educate him the tools to have a safe and lawful establishment. Okay, Mr. Hernandez. Can you pull the microphone out a little bit so we can hear it. Thank you. My name is Jose C. Hernandez Jr. I just come here to see if they can pass for a beer wine license to run a bar on 15 South 10 and what the lawyer said is the same thing I was going to say. The only thing I'd say is it's nice to have a Mexican bar because most Mexicans live around here in the South side. If they had no Mexican bar they go to other bars and you know the people how they are you know. They start talking about them that's why I just want to see they can give me a license put a bar for them and then they only can come where the bar is Mexican bar. I know that when I was working there the bar was all screwed up and all that about drugs and all that and what I was going to do is change everything if I took over the bar there will be like the lawyer said I'll put signs in the front of the bar for drugs if they want no drugs here and I can have some bouncers in the door checking for their IDs and because there there's only two persons allowed to go to the bathroom if I'm going to try tell them if they see three or four going to the bathroom or five, tell them no just two persons can go in the bathroom and all this the diadres that you got here for Laredo Texas and all that I was over there because my mother was sick that's why that's why I call over here in the office I talk to the KL or whatever remember I call them I was in Texas for that my mother is not younger anymore she's like 87 and she's still and I got other brothers and sisters they don't want to help her anything and I'm the oldest I got to do everything for her so just sorry to interrupt so your current address is 334 I'm going to be moving to another place that's where my ex-wife lives there where do you live now I'm going to be moving to NCOR I guess not where you're going to be moving moving now I'm going to be staying here in Sheboygan excuse me I'm going to be staying in Sheboygan and see what happens if they give me the license and I can work with the people here with drugs and all that I can work with the officer they can give me an idea how to fight that in there and I'll address your honor, given the circumstances and I guess I'm bothered by by what I see a lack of proceedings and the severity of this case and the fact that it wasn't represented by council then and the fact that I think the council can make better use of its time by referring back to law and licensing committee and handling this a little better, carefully perhaps with his attorney present perhaps with a translator present I want to try to be as fair as I possibly can with everyone I make a motion to refer it back to law and licensing committee so we can move on I have a second to refer it back to law and licensing committee there's lights on are we speaking on a motion now speaking on a motion thank you your honor well I am bothered by the fact that Alderman Perez who voted to not give this license to this individual is wanting to refer it back to committee because it was unanimously voted on by the committee reviewed it as did public protection safety in a prior situation and I will not support going back to committee I think it should be referred to or stay here in the common council Alderman morning you are late on a referral is that what you are speaking I guess that's the question I wanted to know what the committee was I did look for the minutes from the previous meeting we have had these situations arise before after a person is guilty of multiple violations they often come forward and say I didn't really mean it I couldn't help it and things like that in that committee most people listen to all the facts all the details that are all provided by the city attorney office city attorney's office they read all the reports people on a committee know what happened completely and entirely and they don't take their work lightly and recommend denying a license to someone when it's their livelihood that they're talking about in this case I think after having chaired the license for a number of years prior to the law and licensing committee come forward I can tell you that when they make these decisions it's not taken lightly to report the committee's decision I think that should things change and after a while like we did with the young lady some time back I think it was about a year ago we told her come back in six months or a year if you have no more violations and we'll reconsider that every case is somewhat different but the committee really does its work here and it's all based on the city municipal code and on state code we got a liquor and licenses and I think that we should support that so I will not vote to refer it back are we speaking all on a referral all of them in Vanderbilt thank you Doner I agree with Holden and Warner being on the law and license feature of PPNF we have seen Mr. Hernandez one question has been asked tonight that I don't think we've got an answer yet Mr. Hernandez where do you live I live in Enns Court Enns Court? Yes I'm going to be moving there do you have a mailing address right now if we need to contact you? well you can send it to my ex-wife they always get my mail and I always go by her and pick up the mail for now thank you thank you Mr. Mayor did I hear correctly that the citation was over a year ago? Yes and I've heard committee members say here more than once come back in six months if your record is clean try again well this has evidently been more than 12 months that's all I needed to say thank you Alderman Sertor did you want to speak on yes thank you Your Honor I think it's just important to be said that I take my position in law and licensing very seriously as I would think everybody else there does the question how we had arrived at that decision given the information that was given to us at that time and at that presence I think we came to a fair decision and when something like this happens after the fact and then to question our motives I think it was that we we were fair in the beginning so that's all I wanted to say thank you thank you Mayor I have no problem with admitting to deny Mr. Hernandez's license what I'm simply saying is that we do have new information we do have a lack of communication misunderstanding I don't think he still understands where he lives or what he's supposed to tell us but I guarantee you if I ask him in Spanish he will I'm not going to do that because it'd be disrespectful the other factor that's important to note here is that he was not represented by council but he is now all I'm saying is let's be as fair as we can to everybody who applies we're talking about a man's likelihood here who stands to lose quite a bit if it stays clean he's got a plan in place from when I can hear all these things he can tell the license committee which is what everybody has an opportunity to tell us I think we should give him a chance to come before the law license committee what's wrong with that we'll bring it back if that's the case thank you Alderman Graw I have a question regarding the I haven't been on law and licensing for a long time but is there a time frame that normally they disregard after so many months or a year or something any past violations in just 10 years I think we should address that to Alderman Bonet perhaps to discuss the policies of the committee that would just be a committee policy it wouldn't be statutory requirements or anything like that thank you that's up to the committee we take it on a case by case scenario for each individual case but I believe they fall off the record as far as what we can see after 10 years couple points that were brought up which I thought were critical because we have the opportunity he is cognitive of what is happening here you see as far as having council at our meeting we had every chance just as Alderman Perez brought a lawyer in when he had to address issues concerning ethical questions as far as translators concerned no it's not out of order because I'm bringing up something an instance where we had lawyers come into our meeting another issue concerning this is translators I forget I apologize I don't remember your name it's okay Tony Rizzi Tony for this morning in a conversation he contacted me as the chairman of this committee that he felt that he did have a good understanding of English and he did feel that he did have some confusion the fact is he did understand the proceedings of the committee so and that's in a conversation with the his council he was able to have a council at the meeting hence I don't see any reason to send it back to committee as I stayed before sir if I might address that I did speak with Alderman Bonet today and I agree I think he understood the general purpose of the proceedings he understands English sometimes it's hard difficult to explain but sometimes I think there's a difference between understanding English and being able to present what you want to present and being able to respond to questions adequately I mentioned confusion to Alderman Bonet because I think as you can see there occasionally when a question is posed it's not there's something lost and what's lost is often what is being asked and what he needs to present we're not asking we're asking for an opportunity for him to present it again before the committee which I think would be harmful to no one I think it would just be an opportunity for him to present to the committee and give a full presentation of what he would like to do he would greatly appreciate that opportunity as he is working towards a plan as you've seen here and is better able to articulate it with the help of either a translator or myself or some other assistance thank you sir and then we'll go thank you your honor I just wanted to say bottom line he's served minors it's not the first time and serving minors is unacceptable we can't stand for it again and again and again thank you okay we have a motion Alderman Manning thank you your honor I am I'm law and licensing but was out of town for this meeting where this was considered and I do have a question I would like to pursue and I would not like to pursue that this evening I would like to see it referred I think I would also question the previous violations that Alderman Vanderweel is referred to I'd like to see how far back they are and I'd like to entertain it again thank you Alderman Warner thank you your honor I guess I just wanted to confirm there were multiple violations it's not just one incident itself last time Alderman thank you I just wanted to answer Alderman Manning's question the most recent incident where he served two underage drinkers was on April 10th of 2003 so it was last year go ahead there's one concern there's one incident of serving minors there are two minors involved he was charged with both of them this happened on one occasion it is my understanding I don't believe he was represented by council in that instance either otherwise we can imagine there may be a different result on that as well but just to clarify there was one I believe one incident in which two minors were involved thank you would you call the rule unnecessary on a referral back everybody understand that this is a referral back to the law on licensing Graf Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson Rinfleshe Van Ackren Vanderweel Berg Bonet Serda Nine Eyes Five Nose it's referred so it's going back to committee it's going back to law on licensing we understand and I will contact City Hall tomorrow morning with the correct address so you can send it all directly to me or to him whatever the cities choose excellent thank you okay 1251 and 52 will lie over 1553 to be referred 1174 I believe will be held correct Alderman Orner think I would move to hold we have a motion and a second before us under discussion none all in favor opposed motion carried 1149 by Alderman Graf Manny Berg Montemayor authorizing of the 2004 budget establishing estimate revenue and appropriations for donation received to purchase items for honor guard precipitation in parades Alderman Graf resolution be put upon its passage move to second resolution be put upon its passage under discussion hearing none would you call the roll Manny Montemayor Perez Rindflash Sagali Van Akron Van Der Wiel Werner Bowman Berg Montemay Serda Graf motion carried 1166 by Alderman Orner relating to no parking areas so as to add both sides I think your honor I move to general ordinance be put upon its passage moved in second to ordinance be put upon its passage under discussion under discussion your honor black walnut trail is in the condo association and this will take our parking problems in the beginning of the street into a depth of 300 feet and public protection recommends passage okay we have a motion and a second before us if you know the discussion would you call the roll Montemayor Peterson Rindflash Van Akron Werner Bowman Berg Serda Manny motion carried 1254 will go to public protection and safety 1255 public protection and safety Alderman Montemayor thank you Mr. Mayor 1254 sure referred 1255 I make a motion that simply be filed and perhaps a gentleman could resubmit the letter with a little better language we have a motion before us in a second to file this one yes 1255 1255 under discussion Alderman Warner under discussion your honor I have not read the letter yet and I guess to me as a member of the common council if a person submits something to me and it's sent to my committee I expect to address it in that committee without reading this letter perhaps I should but in my mind if the letter is sent to the committee it should be sent there as they sent it thank you Alderman van der Wil thank you I agree Alderman Warner that they should send a letter but if you read the letter there is language that is used that is disrespectful that if you're writing a letter to the city you should not be using that kind of language so that is my reason Alderman Peres thank you your honor I guess just to pair it what Alderman van der Wil is said I have absolutely no problem whatsoever having that type of communication referred to the appropriate committee but obscene language as it was used is unacceptable and I'm all for the gentleman rewriting his letter addressing the same concerns in better language and by all means it will be referred Alderman Warner as Alderman van der Wil is my vice chairman on this one I did not read the letter I never do read the ones that are referred to committee because I have enough to read the ones we have to actually act on seeing the words that are in here and things I think it probably could be changed somewhat and I would encourage him to do so okay we have a motion before us to refer this no to file this to file it if there is another discussion all in favor pose motion carried 1256 will go to public works Alderman did we do something with 1254 did we do something with 1254 did that get referred thank you 1255 1256 goes to public works other matters Steve 1257 is communication from an ASUSHA 303 St. Clair avenue regarding room tax money that will go to special committee on risk management Alderman for us you want to say something just a quick question your honor perhaps addressed to attorney McLean has any effort been made by anybody to perhaps discuss alternatives to litigation yes and there may be further discussions before the judge rules on the summary judgment motion okay thank you Alderman Mayor Steve attorney McLean is there any chance that the judge might rule against paying for the conference center any chance yeah well what are the chances yes and then we can't be paid with room tax money that's what I mean yes that's what they're arguing their complaint that can't use room tax money from the convention center from the blue harbor resort to pay for the convention center what is the difference between the convention center word and the conference center word you'd have to ask them I don't think there's any difference myself okay thank you very much the plaintiffs apparently think that there's a distinction there that has legal significance I think in any event spending room tax dollars for debt service on a convention center or conference center whatever you want to call it is promoting tourism it's tourism promotion and development whether it's you know assessment of it okay that one goes to special committee on risk management 1258 is a communication from Marion Dion 3307 south 12th street regarding her concerns with reducing the Sheboygan police department staffing public protection and safety 1259 is a an RO by the mayor submitting an update on the status of the 2005 budget that one will go to finance 1260 is an RO by the deputy director of public works and engineering submitting the RFP tabulations for the solid waste and recycling material transfer and tipping services five-year contract comparisons that one will go to public works 1261 is a resolution authorizing entering into contract with waste management Green Bay northern Wisconsin for the solid waste and recycling material transfer and tipping services starting January 1, 2005 through December 31, 2009 per the requirements under the request for proposals developed by the department of public works 1262 is a communication from Edward Kaminski Jr. expressing his concerns with cutting the police department staffing and stating issues regarding the issues of building a fifth fire station public protection and safety it's moved in second to adjourn under discussion hearing none all in favor opposed motion carried