 Thank you for joining us for the CNBC Africa debate on Africa's economic outlook coming to you from the Cape Town Convention Center, where the 21st World Economic Forum on Africa is currently in session. Joining me to take the discussion further to my immediate right, I am joined by Minister Inflantlanene, who is Minister of Finance, South Africa, Clever Gakete, who is the Minister of Finance and Economic Planning for the Republic of Rwanda. President of the African Development Bank, Dr. Donald Kabaruka, Anthony Jenkins, who is Group Chief Executive, Barclays United Kingdom, and by Makda Diop, who is Vice President Africa World Bank based in Washington. Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining me. Before we jump into our conversation, I'm going to do something a little unconventional. And I want us to think about the three days that we've had of rigorous debate with government, stakeholders, business, academia, civil society. I want us to take a step back, and I want you to indulge me for just one moment. And that means asking you to close your eyes. So I'm going to ask the audience in the room to close your eyes, and I'm also going to ask the audience that has joined us across the African continent to follow suit. And gentlemen, if you could do so on the stage. I want us to visualize a couple of facts around the African continent. If you go back to the economist's picture of the African map in 2010, and you place India in that context, you place China in that context, you place the United States squarely onto and into the African map, and then most of Europe. That is how significant we are from a size perspective. We have 1.1 billion people on the African continent, and the exciting fact about them is that 75% of them are below the age of 35, so they have a youthful glow, they're energetic. Yes, we need to deliver on our promises, but that's going to be part of our discussion today. We have 60% of the world's uncultivated arable land in Africa. We have an abundance of natural resources, and a fact I recently discovered from Jonathan Berman who wrote the book Success in Africa is that we have 150 companies operating on the African continent that have a turnover of more than $1 billion. Thank you for indulging me, and you can come back to reality. So that is the opportunity, that is the economic stage that we have to work with. I'm now going to open to Minister Lanza Nene and ask him whether the discussions that we have around GDP are that relevant. We have the African Development Bank forecasting growth coming in at 4.5% for 2015 for the African continent at 5% for 2016, and I'm going to speak about this 5% growth rate as being absolutely crucial because we can then impact unemployment. Minister Nene, how relevant are GDP discussions? Thanks, Bronin. The picture you've just painted puts a number of things to the fore. The first is that, yes, these are opportunities, but they also present us with challenges that we actually have to deal with. Dealing with the size of a youthful population that you have mentioned means that we actually need to put in enormous amounts of investment in order to be able to cater for their future. But also it says that the amount of resources that you have referred to need to be used efficiently, and we need to deploy resources in a manner that begins to lay the foundation for future generations, and we have that responsibility. And the GDP numbers are indeed important. Growth in our GDP is also of critical importance, but what is of even more critical importance is the quality of that growth. It is whether that growth takes everyone on board. It is whether that growth continues to be sustainable in order to be able to create an environment that is going to be able to cater for the next generation. So that is what we're confronted with, and I think after all the discussions that we have had in the past three days, a number of ideas have come out, some of which are actually already at implementation stage, and I think we need to build on that, and the prospects are indeed promising. Minister Gatete, Minister Nene, makes a very pertinent point, and that is the focus on the quality of growth that we need to strive for. What is the key driver when it comes to the quality that we should be aspiring to? Yeah, thank you very much. Indeed, it's not just the economy growing, but it is really whether that's mean, what does it reflect? Is it creating more jobs for the young people? Is it providing the skills gap? Is it feeling the skills gap that we do have? Is it really providing the health services that we need? Is addressing the poverty levels so that when we are growing, we know that we are creating more opportunities for the companies to be able to expand and be able to hire more young people? And at the same time, is it helping the SMEs which are creating more jobs for our own population? So we have to analyse it and look at it in terms of the impact and also in terms of the economy growing, but not leaving and on behind, as the Honourable Minister just mentioned. So for us, the inclusive development has been very crucial and has been emphasised throughout the whole conference here for the last three days, and I think this is very relevant for Africa at this moment in time. Dr. Kabaruka, the stats vary between 12 million and 18 million young people entering the job market in the African context on a yearly basis. Again, Minister Gatete has made a very valuable point around the fact that we need to cater for the youth dividend that we are sitting with on the continent. Is this our biggest challenge? Thank you, thank you. By the way, you should say that I'm the outgoing President of the Bank, because there's an electorate. I was going to wait for that to the end of the debate, but thank you for setting the context, sir. But first of all, something about the numbers from our reports. An average is an average, 4.5%. But there are countries actually who are past 7%, 8%, about eight of them. And I think you need to look at pictures in different parts of Africa, beginning with the most dynamic part of the continent, which is the Eastern Africa. So it's a missed picture. Now, picture the World Economic Forum in 2004 and 2005, which I attended, a discussion on Africa. It was a completely another discussion. It was about aid. It was about lack of growth on the continent of Africa. It was the Africa we used to discuss. Now, today we're discussing another Africa of opportunities. So my take is we have come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. And now, the jobs, inequalities, the output in the context of what I said in the other. We've had strong economic growth. Now we must turn it to economic transformation. The two are not the same, because once the economies are transforming, we shall create jobs. We shall create opportunities. The middle classes will be coming up. So the challenge for Africa is how to keep economic growth strong, sustained, sustainable, and then go to the next phase, which is economic transformation. And I think in a number of countries, I see already the beginning of that. Anthony, you've got an interesting perspective. You bring international context and local context, given the fact that Barquees has been operating on the continent for 100 years. What are the key challenges to Barquees' continued growth story when it comes to Africa? Well, broadly, we're optimistic on the prospects for Africa. I agree with the points that have been made already. But if we think about it, Africa is going to have to seize this growth opportunity in a world that's experiencing structurally lower macroeconomic growth than the growth that we had before the crisis of 2008, and in a world which is ever more interconnected and ever more competitive. I think there's lots of the right raw ingredients on the continent to create that. We know all about, of course, the abundance of commodities and so on. But some of the policy measures that are being made now to structurally transform the economies on the continent are also powerful. From our point of view, we think that we have a vital role to play in supporting business here. And that comes in various forms. Firstly, we have many large multinational companies around the world who are our customers who are either doing business here or want to do business here. And we can partner with them to help them grow and expand. But equally, there are many small and medium-sized enterprises on the continent here that are growing rapidly. And we can help them not only do business in their own country, but regionally and then ultimately internationally. So there's a great role for banks and financial services who have both the local and the global presence. The final point I'd make is it's quite tempting. And there has been a lot of discussion at this meeting to look for analogs in other parts of the world and look at how other parts of the world have created growth. I would strongly advise against that. I think that's looking in the rearview mirror. This is very important to look in the forward mirror on the future. What's the future about? What are the assets that the continent has? And how can it bring those assets to bear to create growth for all of its people? And I think particularly about the power of technology to create jobs that we can't even think of now. And in a way, there's an opportunity if there could be rapid deployment of technology infrastructure and skilling to create a huge competitive advantage. I would just close with this comment. I employ 1,300 computer programmers in Lithuania. Why couldn't I do that in Nairobi or Dar es Salaam or in Cape Town? If the nations of Africa could provide the skills, then businesses will provide the employment. Macta, Anthony makes the salient point that we need to look to future growth drivers. And I'm going to put the context of falling commodity prices into the equation now and say that there are many, many countries in Africa that have exposure to single commodities as a source of revenue. How does that change the Africa growth outlook? What is wonderful right now is that African countries in the decade have been able to build some buffers and have a resilience of a crisis of 2008, 2009, in spite of having a huge slowdown in the world. Economy countries were able to continue growing. It means that they have used creatively all the instruments that we have in macroeconomic making. Now moving forward, we have the fall in the commodity price as also a positive impact of countries are all imported, for instance, which is a significant part of the African continent. So we have with that ability to keep inflation low to upward prices going down because fertilizers are very much linked to the prices of all those commodities at the same time to take that opportunity for countries which are obviously economy based on commodities to start thinking about diversification. And it's interesting because today when we have the conversation at this World Economy Forum, this is the same conversation that you have with policymakers in the G8 countries, quality of growth, employment, inclusiveness, global public goods, climate change, and diversification of your economy and adapting your economy to the next phase. So what is a very strong message I'm taking for this meeting is that Africa is becoming a real part of the international dialogue on economy. It's not the next section anymore. And that is translated by the fact that investors are coming to Africa. And we don't have one model of development in Africa. Often I ask the question, what will be the African development model? Will it be the Chinese model? Will it be the Singapore model? It will be, I say, it will be the South African model, the Rwandan model and so forth. And the good news is that countries are going faster in Africa. A country like Rwanda, but not a country with large endowment of natural resources, which means that the economies are now diversifying in Africa. Absolutely. Diversifying, Minister Nene, looking at macroeconomic stability and insulating African economies from external shocks, which I think is what Makta is touching on in depth there. Your thoughts of where we are in that process? Indeed, it's an important point because of the reliance on our mineral resources as a source of income over a period of time. It's actually proven not to be a sustainable path to take. But what we have also picked up was that, for instance, with the fall in the oil price, it's not all of the countries that actually benefited from that. Some countries who are oil exporting countries took the knock, and the ones that were oil importing actually got the benefit of that. But also what that does is it has an impact on our current account balance, where you would find that depending on what monetary policy you exercise in terms of your exchange rate policy, you would actually be able to take advantage of your floating exchange rate, like in our case, to be able to mitigate that. But I would want to believe that you do need very strong macroeconomic policy in order to be able to respond to such exogenous shocks. With this one being the one on monetary policy being one of those, but at the same time, diversification, as my colleagues have said, becomes an issue because if there is a fall in the commodity price, that has actually been a source of revenue for your economy. That means you need to find and explore other sectors that would better place you in order to be able to make up for lost revenue. And it is for that reason that I think we're beginning to look at, like in South Africa, other sectors like agriculture that otherwise were on the decline. And it is important that, as the president of the African Development Bank said, that we need to transform our economies such that they are structured in a manner that they would be able to respond to these challenges much more flexibly and favorably. It's been widely discussed here at the forum that investment in infrastructure is crucial to boosting GDP growth on the African continent. And I don't mean to pick out any territory or region. I know there are many centers of excellence across the African continent. There are many economic corridors, but I was very enlightened this morning when we had some input around the central corridor, which has been created with Rwanda, Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi, and Kenya. Launched in June 2014, it's taken nine months to get through the acceleration phase to identify 121 sub-projects to the mega-programme and 23 cornerstone projects. Of those 23 cornerstone projects, four have already been taken to bankability phase, and another four are in the early phases of that bankability phase, with just a few studies to go to get there. The question now is what impact, Minister Gatete, you're going to see that infrastructure development when it comes to fruition because now I am jumping the gun. It is now into implementation phase that's been handed over to NEPAD. What will that do for growth within the East African context? And again, I'm using it as an example of a broader African picture. Yeah, thank you very much. I think it will touch to one of the key drivers to the economic growth. And in terms of sustaining the economy, one of the key factors is really infrastructure. Another one, I would say it is skills that we need for the future. And also increasing the financial base, which is very critical for the private sector. And also doing it in a manner that you are looking at the regional approach rather than looking inward at the country level. For the corridors in the East Africa, we have many corridors. One is the Northern corridor that goes from Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda, and Kenya. And the central corridor that, as you mentioned, where we have five countries. We have Uganda, we have Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and DRC. The Northern corridor has already been implemented now for almost three years. And it has really results where the focus was on infrastructure, focusing on the railway, focusing on the pipeline, focusing on energy, and actually the IT, I would say, which has been very, very useful, and complementing it with the single customer's territory. And what we realized is that actually some of the decisions do not require money. They just need decisions of the heads of state. And I could just give you an example is that it used to take 22 days to bring the goods from Mombasa to Rwanda, and 18 days from Mombasa to Kampara. But when the heads of state took decisions, and they took decisions that we should remove all the roadblocks, we should remove all the way bridges, we should address the issue of insurance, where we needed three insurances for each of the territory, using the cargo tracking system, rather than stopping the vehicles, and also having one clearing house at Mombasa. It reduced the number of days from 22, now to five days in Rwanda, and from 18 to four days in Uganda. And of course, that one had an impact on the cost, where the cost of a container, 20 feet container, was reduced by half. And that is a big impact, because there is more rounds to make sure that you can always go back and forth. It had an impact. And now we are investing together in all the other infrastructure projects, and these ones are being monitored by at the level of the heads of state. Now, two months ago, the head of state of Tanzania also invited the other heads of state when the projects for the central corridor were ready to discuss how we can replicate that and implement the projects of the central corridor in a similar manner. And the heads of state have taken decision that they'll be meeting quarterly to make sure that they can work together as governments, but also working together with the private sector, with international financial institutions, and all the others. Mr. Teter, I want to bring Dr. Kabaruka in at this stage. And again, so looking at a bird's eye view of the African continent over the years you've spoken about, how the conversation around Africa has changed. Give us your thoughts on the traction that we're seeing of executable infrastructure projects from a broader context. Yeah, what the minister is saying is extremely important, both ministers, because at the end of the day, infrastructure is a means to an end. It's not an end in itself. So if you have a corridor and you have many of them and you have all these non-tariff restrictions, that piece of infrastructure is suboptimally being used. So what he says is extremely important. Build the corridors, a physical thing. But for heaven's sake, remove the man-made barriers. It's as important. Equally, what Mr. Nenis says about macroeconomic stability, we've fought very hard African countries, beginning with Ghana, over two decades, to build macro stability on the continent. It should be maintained. Buffers should be rebuilt. But again, macro stability is only a means to an end. The means to ensure that you have got a whole range of predictable policies which make investors make the right decisions. So we are the points, the aeroplane is on the tarmac, on the takeoff. It's about to take off. We have the pallets in the cockpit. There's a fuel. I said at the opening of the annual meeting of the Bank of Navijan, each time we talk about development in Africa, it's about money. We need lots of it. But money does not bring about development. What brings development are policies. Policies that are predictable. Policies that make sense to investors. And then you have capacity to implement the policies. So what I'm seeing now is that the policies in Africa are getting in the right place. Almost. If you can just make mistakes. Some are suffering implementation capabilities. And those who have to help. But on balance, I think we shall still have a big gap on infrastructure. We have to close it by attracting private capital. And that means the right policies, the right implementation capabilities. And that is what we're trying to do in the Afghan Bank at this time. Now, situation varies from country to country. You know, from Santomi, Guinea-Bissau and South Africa is different. So we have got tailor-made policies for these countries. But I want to leave a message here. Money is important. We need tons of it. But at the end of it is the policies which determine the return on investment on that month. Are you confident about the fact that the rewards of investing in Africa, Anthony, outweigh the risks to the point that Dr. Kabirika is making? Yes, I think they broadly do justify the risk. Obviously there's multiple different ways of funding infrastructure. You can do it at the sovereign level. You can do it at the private level. You can do it in some combination. And clearly what investors are interested in is a long-term stable return for the capital they put at work. And as long as the conditions can be created to do that, there's clearly the economic demand there. And I do think that there's some very encouraging progress that we see here in this country in South Africa. The efforts to improve the power situation, the use of renewables and so on is very encouraging. So broadly speaking, I think the banking system will support these types of opportunities in conjunction with other actors in the space. I do think, though, that the question of infrastructure needs to be thought of very broadly because it isn't just about the traditional things we think of, you know, roads and power and that type of thing. This notion that we have to digitally enable Africa, in many ways, is the most powerful thing that we can do. And while I don't subscribe, as I said earlier, to the approach of just looking for analogues in other parts of the world, I do think there are selective initiatives that can work here. I was in India recently and there was a plan there to put 4G across the whole of India. So in the most rural part of the country, you'll be able to access content at high speed. There's a lot to be learned from that sort of approach and that could be financed because that would be a real economic engine of growth. But can I, actually, if there's an area where Africa is making very good progress, this is the one. In technology. Yes, and the reason is that in the 90s, when there was deregulation of the telecom sector, private capital massively, optic fibres on land, in the sea, telecom companies, which has enabled many economies to leapfrog. So I do think, actually, there, I think Africa has made a real progress. Now we need to take it to the next level. It's an inflection point that needs to be created, I think, around this. And perhaps we can put a couple of stats around that because we know that we've got 80% mobile phone penetration across the African continent. We've only got 11% of financial inclusion or banking availability across the continent. So you talk about adding those two equations together, be it as Dr. Kabaruka stresses, health education, the term that we've been using at the World Economic Forum is leapfrogging. And I'm sure you've heard that in many of the sessions that you've attended over the last three days. Makta, let's get you to weigh in here. Yes, I just want to rebound on what Dr. Kabaruka said, which is so right about policies of financing. And we talked a lot about financing. But in addition, good policy attracts money. It's not only that it's good that it helps to increase the return of your investment, but attract, and I can give you some examples. When we start changing the policies in some of the energy sector, we start having a lot of independent power producers coming in Nigeria. We had in other places of Africa. So what we would like to do now in attracting money is to start making that money cheaper for Africa. We now have a lot of money coming to Africa, but it's still very expensive. If you look at the fundamentals of our economy, it's not justified to have this level of premium that the market is giving to Africa, and why it's happening. It's because there is a risk perception which is very high. Something happened in East Africa, and people consider that it's affecting West Africa. And I try to explain to people sometimes that Dakar is closer to Paris than it is to Nairobi. So what I see as a negative contagion effect is something that we need to break. To that point, before we move off the aeroplanes and logistics, a number of businessmen have had to leave the forum, travel all the way from Cape Town to Dubai, and then from Dubai to Lagos. That's what's happening this evening. So your point is well-made. Yeah. And right now we need to lower the cost of financing. What's happening in infrastructure? When Dr. Kabiruka and myself go and mobilize resources, we finance African infrastructure with short-term resources, short maturity, eight-year maturity to finance an investment which we have amortized over 30 years. You have the pension fund, you have the institutional investors all around the world who are sitting on large liquidity, and we want to have higher return because the population is aging in Europe. It's aging in other countries. And they are hesitating in putting these long maturity resources to finance infrastructure. The next step for us is to start tapping on that liquidity to be able to not only bring resources in Africa, but to bring them at the lower cost and to be able to smooth the debt profile of countries and have the macroeconomic policies that I put in place not be affected by this effort to accelerate our growth. So this is something that I wanted to add on the infrastructure story because we talk about policies and financing as two different things. It goes together. And the example of mobile was a very good example where today we have the infrastructure. The next question is the content. We want to have more content on internet which is coming from Africa. If you look at the content, most of it is coming still from Europe on the part of the world, but there is a huge amount of content that comes in here. Anthony, you wanted to come in here? Africa. Again, I think it's wonderful that there's 80% mobile phone penetration. But what can those mobile phones actually do? They're pretty simple handsets today. They don't facilitate delivery of content. They don't facilitate creation of micro-businesses. They don't create delivery of educational and health care solutions. They don't, in general, support fostering agricultural improvement. But we know that it's possible to do all of those things because there's little tiny projects doing those things across the continent and in other parts of the world. We were talking earlier in the week about one country that was saying, by 2020, all of our high schools will have access to high-speed internet. And that's 2020. That's five years away. And I just feel that this is an area, and I know everybody would probably violently agree, that if there's one point of leverage in this whole discussion getting this moving faster and then the content that you described, it has wonderful knock-on effects, not just economically, but socially as well in terms of delivering all of these solutions. But I don't agree with my colleague here. I think mobile telephony has made a huge difference from farming to health to educational delivery, where the policies are right. I can give many examples, but I can do that another day. But I think that it's not simply a question of ownership. People tell me that we have now more mobile phones than some countries in Europe. It has made a difference. So I'd like to take this up with you after this session. I don't think we disagree. I think it's the pacing that's... No, no, actually, we'll give you a moment. Let's just give you a moment. Are you both all right? Yeah, we're good. OK. I want to come in now with the elephant in the room. And that is the FIFA scandal, which brings a bigger issue to the fore, and that is the one of corruption. So let me throw some stats out there. Transparency International has identified the 10 most corrupt economies globally. Five of those are in Africa. Of course, that may be skewed by our share size and 54 countries before you come back hard on that fact. The Moe Ibrahim Foundation says we lose $148 billion annually as a result of corruption. Now, that is 50% of annual tax revenue, 25% of annual GDP. I actually thought I'd misread those stats because they were so staggering, so I double-checked them. How are we going to stamp out corruption? Because it goes to everything that we are talking about today. We need money to grow Africa. Investors will give us money, both domestic investors and international investors, as long as they know they can make a return. They will even give it to us for the long term if they know that they will safely be able to extract that money at the end of the day. Indeed, Ibrahim, through corruption, that's one of the leakages. That's where we lose money. A number of other schemes and scams, illicit financial flows and all sorts of other things. I think it's one area that if we do not close, because those resources are lost and they are lost to the nations that would have benefited through all these noble projects that we are talking about today. And the FIFA one is just but one of those at the end of the day. I think our policies, again, as Dr. Kaperuka said, are the ones that should actually stand firm in order so that when there are such incidences that have been identified, they can be dealt with by the authorities, law enforcement authorities and the legislation that is in place to be enforced without fear or favor. And therefore, we want to... I mean, on this specific one, as soon as we have available information our law enforcement agencies are going to have to do what is right and deal with the matter once and for all. Because at the end of the day, as you would know, that we have a very transparent budgeting process in this country from the government side. I am confident that things were done properly and we were very rigorous on this. But when corruption takes hold, you know, I always say corruption is a very well-organized project that succeeds without any qualms because all parties cooperate. In this instance, we talk about how you bring together the various stakeholders in order to implement projects. The corruption one, you don't have to bring them together. They are brought together by the common greed and eagerness to loot. Therefore, they would succeed easily. And that is why also when it unravels, it just takes exactly the same route. And with our existing laws and systems, I would want to believe that we would be able to get to the bottom of it once we have got the information. But I must just say, on corruption, if we also don't deal with it, all our noble plans that are on the table will actually not be fulfilled to the optimum. Let me also indicate that, you know, the other problem that we... Or the challenge, if I were to say so. The other challenge that we should also deal with is when we implement our infrastructure projects, we need to have, for sustainability, we need to have a longer pipeline because you need certainty that beyond this, you don't want to complete one project today and only start planning for the next. So you need a well-established pipeline where you know where the resources are going to go and they need to be catalytic in nature. And it is therefore that's the place where there is the conference, where business and where public sector and the private sector come together because it is when you have reduced the risk that the private sector comes in. The central corridor you spoke about, one of our development finance institutions, the Development Bank of Southern Africa, is playing in that space. It's the DBSA, it is the African Development Bank. You see, you find that all the like-minded MDBs, DFIs, government, the private sector, everyone has actually come together because it is for that reason that we've been able to get to the bankable stage. Project preparation, the point at which most of our projects fail, has actually been done in a meticulous way and has put us to where we are with those projects. And we are looking at replicating what has transpired there in a number of others, including the Lesotho Highland Water Project, talking about the borders. We've got the bad bridge on our site as... Minister, I want to chat about regionalization as well now, and I want to, Makta, throw this to you in terms of regionalization and the opportunity that that presents for investors. So instead of, and again, I'm going to throw forward and my apology is to focus on the East African context, but again, I do think that East Africa is driving forward faster than other territories in Africa on regionalization, issues, infrastructure, et cetera. Now, if you look at Kenya as an individual population, you look at Tanzania as an individual population, you're looking at what averages of 55 million, 40 million people. Rwanda, you throw in at 12 million people. You have got pockets that you can explore. But think of yourself as a consumer entrepreneur, and suddenly you take all of those countries in the East African region and you're sitting with, let's say, 157 million people. That opportunity becomes compelling for international investors. Your thoughts on whether we are seeing regionalization, and it's to the point that we discuss this World Economic Forum after World Economic Forum, and I'm hoping that we're seeing tangible progress. Actually, Africa is one of the region which is most integrated. We don't say that enough. What you have in Africa in terms of West African Monetary Union, ECOWAS, EAC, SADEC, those types of ensembles which are functioning so well is not much in a lot of places in the world. So actually, Africa is leading the pack in terms of regional integration. And we should say it and repeat it because I think that we might be under the impression that Africa compared to other parts of the world is lagging. It's not the case. First point. Second point, can we do more? Yes. And I think what Mr. Gattete shows, the political will that we have between head of states which are getting together and addressing very concrete and practical issues are excellent. But also there are some very important institutional decisions that have been made. ECOWAS has now a common external tariff. They are discussing common currency. The West African Monetary Union had an external common tariff back in 2000. It had since independence a common currency. So there are some ensembles and people are now moving towards having common sectoral policies, having way of helping the lagging regions. So things are happening. Now, what is the next things we need to happen is to develop the local currency capital market. I think it would be an important element. And it is a very interesting experience. Rwanda is doing something. South Africa is doing something. Because what is happening now to foster this exchange is to be able to have companies which are working across the countries having a capital market which is a large stock exchange which is large, which is covering many countries, which allow a saving from Senegal to move to Cote d'Ivoire, saving from Kenya to move to Uganda, et cetera, and start creating ensembles which are economically viable. All our work, there is not one day that Dr. Kabiruka and I meet and we don't talk about regional integration. That's what is our number one preoccupation how we can take it to the next step. But let's not forget Africa is doing already a lot. And I'm using the East African example as a favorable one from a regionalization perspective. Antony, I want you to weigh in on the depth and breadth of capital markets and the importance that they play in driving the African economic growth story. Actually, just on the regionalization point, many of our big customers in the East African region, Imtika, are pan-regional players and see great growth opportunities. So back to your point about the policy creates the conditions for success. I think in terms of capital markets, this issue is not unique to Africa. In fact, many people would say that Europe has got exactly the same issue. People have been talking about broad and deep capital markets in Europe for 30 years and they look with envy towards the United States. So I think it's harder than it looks, frankly, to create broad and deep capital markets beyond the typical intermediation that banks do. And people have struggled with this, as I've mentioned in other parts of the world. That's not to say that we shouldn't try because I think the putative efforts are encouraging and we should seek to foster local resources being deployed against local investment opportunities. But that does require the right regulatory environment, it requires the right legal environment and it requires the right banking and markets environments to put all of those things in place. But I think it's, as I say, it's not as easy as it looks. Donald, Dr. Kabarika, looking... No, no, definitely not. You're so outgoing president, sir, of the African Development Bank. You mentioned that we should remove the man-made barriers on the continent and you've picked up on an area that I'm incredibly passionate about. 2010, we had five countries on the African continent that had free access from a visa perspective. Jumping forward to, well, 2013, jumping forward to 2015, we've got 13 countries that have free visa access or unarrival visa situations. This has got to be our biggest opportunity. Intra-Africa trade is sitting still around about 12%. Is that the figure we're widely or broadly quoting at the moment? Surely we can do more and perhaps we can just start on the free movement of goods and services before we deal with other issues. Yeah, first of all, I do want to salute the work of the World Global Council on Africa. They took on this matter with very robust analysis how difficulties to go from country to country X and amazingly, I'll begin to see movement actually with governments taking a close look. So we shall be publishing in the bank begin this year an index of moving across Africa from the most difficult to the easiest, like we do in the World Bank for doing business. So, salute Global Council on Africa. Let me try to go beyond regions because of my functions. Let's talk about the continent. There's something called YAMUSUKRO agreement, which is about the regulation of the aviation sector. So governments agreed, so no issue there. Implementation has been an issue. But if this agreement had been implemented, the cost of flying within Africa would be down by 40%. So we have airports infrastructure. We have a few planes. We need more. But traveling within Africa still costs more than it should. Why don't we begin from here? Because it's easier. Now, let me take the issue of free movement of people. Now, we had a town meeting the other immigration from Rwanda and a few of his colleagues exchanging experiences. What is security, drug dealers, money lenders? Those can be dealt with actually easier by cooperation than by closing the borders. What I found is that in the five regions of Africa, this is what is happening. In North Africa, it's very difficult. Still a challenge. West Africa, huge progress there. By the way, on your number of 12%, it's a cliche here often. But if you go region by region, in South Africa, they're closing out to 28%. So that's a blended rate that we need to fully grow. Yes, by the Côte d'Ivoire, trade with the neighbors is now past 50%, which is almost close to European average. So be careful with the 12%. It's an average across the five regions of Africa. In the Central African region, five countries, small population, for the two million people, almost population of Kenya. Free movement, very difficult. So what we're trying to do is to address the fears of the countries. What is it that would constrain this free movement so we can address them? That said, ask the Europeans. Economic integration is not easy. Not all Europeans join the Schengen Agreement. I think some even want to drop out. So it is not an African problem, but it is an issue for us, which I have to address to make sure that we can expand the size of the market and its diversity. So I'm really hoping that going forward, beginning with the agreement in Shamal Shek, between Sadeq, Commissar, EAC, we sign agreements, beginning with the Lohan Fruits, which is non-tariff restrictions and free movement of it. Minister Gatet, it's still on this topic. Indicate or give us some traction around what has happened with the free movement of goods, services, and people within the East African context. Yeah, thank you very much. I think East Africa is really making progress, especially given the leadership which I mentioned earlier. I was mentioning earlier the Northern Corridor, when the Heads of State says, first of all, let's remove the work permits. Let anybody in Kenya, Uganda, and Rwanda be free to work anywhere, and that was done. Because they discussed it, they took a decision. Number two, they said, why do we need passports? And all the Heads of State made a demonstration that they traveled on their ID card. Means every student, every citizen, you just travel on your ID. Whether you go by plane or you go by road, you travel on ID. And that's possible for the three countries. Other countries of East Africa are concerning that one as well, including the work permit. We also said, if you are to call each other, because you do business within the same region, why do you need roaming charges? They took a decision to remove this. And the company's actually income, in terms of calls, it doubled in one month. And for now, you can't reverse it. Means that if you are in Rwanda and you're in Kenya, you can call as if you're in your own country and there are no costs on roaming charges. And this has helped in terms of improving business. Because you have ordinary people, they don't need passports, they don't need anything. And this is helping the trade within the region. So these are just some kind of quick examples. They also discussed in terms of the cost of travel. And this has reduced significantly with the cooperation of the Iranians in the region. And the price has really come down significantly after the debate of why the cost was so high and sometimes was normally so high. But when they discussed it, then decisions were taken. So I see this one as the type of leadership that we need in order to bring these kind of barriers down and allow the free movement of goods and people. It starts with the people moving. It's very difficult to accomplish what we've been tasked with at this stage. And that is to cover the African economic outlook sufficiently in 60 minutes. We've got seven and a half minutes left. So I'm going to use the closing session, beginning with Minister Nene, for you gentlemen to throw forward to anything that we have left out of this equation that you deem to be a burning topic. Because in that regard, we can fit another five key issues into our debate. Minister Nene. Thanks again, Nene. I think this has been a very good opportunity for us to share ideas, for us to share experiences, and for us also to learn from each other's experiences and failures at the same time. Because there are some instances where some of our policies have not worked for various reasons. But we are in a dynamic environment where we have unique challenges as African countries. So whilst we are in the process of trying to cooperate, but at the same time, in a number of instances, also because we trade amongst each other, we also compete amongst each other. So we need to find a way of finding the right balance between being able to be in a competitive environment but at the same time cooperating for the good of the entire continent. And I think one of the things that have actually been striking is how we all are committed to getting Africa to work. And with WEF being a global phenomenon, having come to South Africa and having actually brought Africans together, together with the global players, having been able to begin to look at how best we can actually benefit from each other's experiences. I think this has been a wonderful opportunity. Minister Gatete. Yeah, quickly. One thing that has been discussed but not exhaustively is the issue of private sector financing. Traditionally in Africa now, macroeconomic stability is now a reality. There's no doubt about it. We've been traditionally working with international financial institutions like ADB and the World Bank for government borrowing and making sure it stabilizes the economy. But in terms of the private sector financing, what has been crucial is there has been significant movement in terms of really creating the environment for the business people internationally to come and invest in our own countries. But we have not focused more on how to bring in the cost of borrowing down because we have not insisted on the capital market development. And this capital market development is one of the key areas that can bring resources, whether from the region or internationally, that can help in terms of lowering the cost of borrowing by the private sector to invest together with the government. And I think this is an area that we should keep discussing as we go for next year and the years to come. We've got four minutes to close. Dr. Kabaruka, your stage is yours. You asked for one. If I had two, and I began with, we need to do something about these conflicts we thought were behind us. But as you can see in Burundi, we have a risk of throwing it all away. Efforts over 10 years. We didn't have time to discuss this. I would have liked to. But since you said one, I'm more focused on energy. This morning, the Africa Progress punished the report about climate energy and indicated that on this continent, we don't have to make a choice between clean energy and growth. We have plenty of clean sources. But now here's an issue. How do we get financing to ensure that all our countries from South Africa to North Africa who can fund this gap? It's about policies. It's about having the lack of income, the national of takers having strong balance sheets, strong regulators who are independent in law and facts. And then you're going to see money pouring into the sector, which all of us need for human development and to power our economies. That is something I feel very passionate about, even after I leave the African Development Bank. Anthony. I'll be very brief. I think there's an opportunity for governments and private sector, international financial institutions to work much more closely together so that we can bring global companies to Africa and we can take African companies globally. There's good work going on in space. I think there's a lot more that can be done. Mucked up. There's convergence of view. Everybody agree on the main issues, private sector, public sector, DFIs. Everybody agrees. Implementation. Implementation. Implementation. Africa is a safe place. Predictable. So please, pension fund managers and those who are holding long-term resources, please bring it to Africa, because that's what helps us really bridge and invest in facts that you're like Donald indicated. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for a robust debate on Africa's economic outlook. And thank you so much for joining us for the CNBC Africa debate on Africa's economic outlook, coming to you live from the 25th World Economic Forum on Africa, which is joined to close here at the Convention Center in South Africa. I would ask you to keep seated. I would ask the panelists please to remain seated. And if I could ask now Philip Rosler, who is a member of the board of the World Economic Forum, to come up please to formally start the closing proceedings. Thank you very much. Workshop on that, it's fine, it's okay. You're welcome. Honour, thank you so much. It's a good discussion. Traditionally, it's a success. Oh, yes. I've been in this in one of the big countries, Nigeria, Seattle, where it was countries. Yes, so honourable ministers, dear co-chairs, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, the Archbishop, the summit has almost come to an end. And with more than 1,200 participants, it was the biggest regional summit to date. And ladies and gentlemen, this is a proof for the great trust of the people into the hospitality of our host state. So thank you very much to our host. Thank you very much to South Africa. And it is also a proof that Cape Town, South Africa, the entire African continent is a place to be. We have fast-going countries, young societies, frontier developments, so a lot of opportunities. But of course, at the same time, we are facing some challenges, which we have addressed in the past few days. We have talked about business models beyond commodities in order to foster inclusive growth. We have talked about intra-African trade and mobility of the people. And we have talked about the biggest opportunity for Africa, the next generation, the youth. Self-confident, dynamic, creative, and always embracing disruptive technologies. And even more important, this meeting was to turn talks into action. And when you talk about action in terms of business models, we all know how critical investments in infrastructures are. So we identified 23 projects in our infrastructure initiative. And if we talk about human capital, then health and employment will remain the pillars of our work. So for example, we have best practice models to foster resilience, facing future pandemics, for example, in Mali. And if we talk about employment, the African Business Council has kicked off, here at our summit, the African Skills Initiative. And hopefully it will be as successful as our Africa and Grow Africa partnership, which we co-founded four years ago and then World Economic Forum in Africa. And today it is benefiting 8 million people. And it created 60,000 jobs. And each of the job is worth your effort because it's for the people, for the communities, and their families. So ladies and gentlemen, this meeting was a meeting to getting things done. And it is a proof that the great appetite for public-private cooperation, because only together the problems can be solved as partners and friends. So thank you very much for your engagement. It allowed me to say particularly thank you to our respected co-chairs. Thank you for your leadership. And thank you for the ambassador for our mission. It allowed me also to say thank you to all the many helping hands in the background. Particularly, thank you to our African team under the leadership of our regional director for Africa, LC Cancer. And in 12 months, we'll come together to have a follow-up on all our projects and the next World Economic Forum on Africa then 2016. And this summit will take place in Rwanda. So now ladies and gentlemen, it's my great honor and pleasure to invite the finance minister and minister of economic development of Rwanda his Excellency Minister Klaver Gantete to invite all of us to the next World Economic Forum on Africa. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much, Saferi Prusla. Bishop Desmond Tutu, Dr. Donad Kaberuka, President of the Africa Development Bank. One of our ministers here present business leaders, distinguished ladies and gentlemen. I would say by say congratulations to all of you for such a successful World Economic Forum on Africa 2015. I wish to thank in particular the government of South Africa for the home hospitality and for providing a good environment for all of us to exchange ideas on issues that are important for our continent. I want particularly to thank his Excellency President Zuma for really gracing this occasion with his presence for the last two days and this has been very, very useful for us. I also wish to convey our appreciation to the World Economic Forum for once again convening distinguished leaders interested in the prosperity of Africa. We've seen the great leadership and participation of course of Professor Schwab's and his team, including our Africa director, Erize Kansa, who has been very, very active in terms of facilitating us. This year's theme, meetings, contributions, as well as attendance continue to demonstrate the significant opportunities that the African continent presents today. The continent's dynamism is demonstrated by its high economic growth rate, averaging 5% in the past. Growing the middle income, middle income class, the young and more skilled population and many other positive indicators. We know that these must be accompanied by consistent efforts to create jobs, build infrastructure and develop healthy, capable and hopeful young Africans. There is no better place to take this discussion forward than in Rwanda, a country that has demonstrated that Africa can thrive, even from ashes, having lost over a million of our most treasured resource, our people. Rwandans have overcome the most difficult challenges with resilience, hope and above all, restored ambition and the kind desire to build productive partnerships with the region and the rest of the world. And so, ladies and gentlemen, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you all to the World Economic Forum that will take place in Ichigari, Rwanda in 2016. Rwanda is testimony that Africans can aspire to and confidently face much brighter future. Let me share with you five reasons why. First, we can establish high standards of good governance. We have created a safe, secure place to live and to do business. Over the last 20 years, we have reconstructed our fractured society, building national unit and national purpose. Rwanda is politically stable with well-functioning institutions, rule of law and no tolerance for corruption. Consequently, we have been ranked as the fourth best governed country on the African continent. Secondly, we have established strong macroeconomic stability. We continue to execute sound policies with fiscal discipline and a stable inflation rate. These have enabled average annual economic growth of 8% over the last 10 years and lifted 10% of our population out of poverty in just five years. This is a stress that is possible in Africa to achieve both high growth and inclusive socioeconomic development. Thirdly, we believe that the private sector is the engine of economic growth. The World Bank and the World Economic Forum rank Rwanda as the third easiest place to do business and fourth most competitive economy respectively on the African continent. We want to go even further in making it easier, better and cheaper to do business in Africa. Fourthly, we have made it easier for you to visit Rwanda. Our national airline, Rwanda, flies to 18th nations, mostly within Africa and can connect you easily from anywhere in Africa to Chigari. This is in addition to several other airlines that can fly to Rwanda. All African passport holders are legible to receive visas on arrival. Others can obtain visas at the nearest Rwanda Embassy or apply for an entry permit online and expect to get a response within a maximum of three days. Lastly, we are your gateway to the bigger markets of Africa. Rwanda has nearly 12 million people, but we are also located in the heart of Africa and you can get to the farthest point of the continent in about four hours. Both English and French are spoken in Rwanda, which facilitates our connection with most regions. We are also members of several regional economic communities and have worked with them to create free trade areas, customs union, and for some, even common market. We belong to East Africa and the community, the economic community of the Great Lakes, the common market for Eastern Southern Africa and also the economy community of the Central African states. Like the rest of the continent, Rwanda's long-term challenge is to not only create economic opportunities for all, but also productively harness the pull of young new skilled workers. We are working hard to build a knowledge-based economy and build our competitiveness on the application of knowledge. In line with this, we have prioritized the use of ICT and the development of the Chigari Innovation Center to accelerate growth in other areas of our economy, including as a center of financial services. As part of this strategy, we have partnered with the world-class university, the Carnegie Mellon University, who have established their own African campus in Chigari. We therefore count on you to join us in 2016 and work with us to build all of these in order to reduce the cost of transactions in our region and the continent. We also invite you to see the beauty of our country, usually referred to as a country of a thousand hills. If Tracking Mountain Gorillas is on your bucket list, this is your chance to get it done. You also have opportunities to explore Rwanda's culture, rainforests, savanna tourist sites, among many other options. However, I can assure you that you will not definitely need winter coats because you never have winter in Rwanda. And also you can bring anything except plastic bags because they are prohibited by law. But first, I welcome you all to the reception outside this room, which is hosted by the government of Rwanda, for a little flavor of Rwanda, but nothing will beat your visit to Rwanda next year. I thank you for your kind attention and may God bless you all. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are all looking forward to come to Rwanda next year to our World Economic Forum on Africa 2016. Ladies and gentlemen, usually now I would say thank you and goodbye, but this year I'm delighted to invite Archbishop Desmond Tutu to the stage to close our World Economic Forum on Africa 2015 with his blessing. Your Excellency. Thank you so very much. I had been invited to participate in the conventional way, and I said, no, sorry. I can't impose on this wonderful gathering of inspiring individuals I can't impose on them the ramblings of a decrepit old man. I have reached the stage where I get up and walk into a room because I know what I'm going to do in that room. And when I arrive, what the heck am I doing here? But someone said to me, it's not as bad as you go up a flight of stairs and round about the middle you stop and you say, was I going up or down? Please let us pray. God, we see you weeping. We see you weeping because your children can do what they are doing to one another. We see you weeping because infants and children die of preventable disease. They die because they do not have clean water. And you see us spending trillions on instruments of death and destruction. We see you weeping because of the way so many of us treat women. We see you weeping when you look at Boko Haram, ISIS, and the very many wars that are fought. We see you weeping as you look at the long struggling lines of women carrying children on their backs, flying from one refugee camp to another. And then we see a smile breaking over your face. Yes, you look down and you see the world economic forum. And you see the commitment that they have to improve the lot of women and children. We see you beginning to smile through the tears because you see your children dedicated from this world economic forum who say they want to make this a better world. And we see a little angel wiping away your tears because the world economic forum says it's going to be your partner to make your world hospitable to goodness opposed to corruption, improving the health of women and children. Thank you God for blessing this gathering. Go with those who have met here, who have been inspired by what they heard and saw. Go with them so that they arrive safely in their destinations to begin to make your world what you would want it to be a paradise. Amen.