 Ae M events are specialist in party, wedding and event planning management, so for more information to make a booking, pop down to their showroom at unit 2 Foundry Street, Atlas, Industrial Estate and Glasgow. Maen nhw, a'i wasbau i'n gweithio y maen nhw'n marillan Wisby. Marillan, mae'n gweithio'r stil yn ddifu'r ystai. Mae'n ddiddorio'n Tomy Wisby, sy'n gweithio'r gweithio ar y flyneddau'r cyfrannu. Mae'n ddifu'r ex-parlef yw Mad Franky Fraser, ac mae'r godfair yn Ffredd Eforman, mae'n ddifu'r cyfrannu, mae ydych yn fwyaf. Mae hwn yn ddifu'r gweithio'n fwyaf ddifu'r gweithio. Maybe it's a bit of a mask of tears I suppose. I'm looking back, I believe I'm probably the product of the environment. You get used to the craziness. Yes. But we'll go right back to the start and where you were born. How was your life growing up, especially with your dad being one of the most famous bank robbers in the world at that point? Trone robber. He loved trains james. I loved the western films I can remember in the 60s when we did get to TV. He'd be watching the old cowboys on the horses robbing the trains and I think it was in breading. We may have wanted it all yet ended up being my minus horse. Hau wldfawd i wneud dad. Dad te robry? I was nine years of age. I was the oldest child out of all the train robbers' children and I can remember exactly. I kept asking my mum where's daddy, she said always join the army until me and my sister went down to the shop in our roller skates and years ago they used to have the newspapers all folded and across the newspaper was all the pictures of the robbers, train robbers captured and I looked down and I saw a picture of my dad and went racing back to my mum. You told lies, you told lies, I got all upset, why didn't you tell me? She was very young, you would have remembered it then, you would have remembered it because it was at 2.3 million which was the equivalent of over 50 million today. Someone totted it up and said it was about 60 million and under a thousand pounds was left in a mail bag, I believe it was for one of the crooked policemen. I read about your dad's story because your dad sadly passed away three years ago but he's booked out the wrong side of the tracks and they said that it was a police officer who wanted money to get rid of evidence or to hide evidence? Yes, maybe that was it but obviously I wasn't there so. How was the police and stuff at the time when you were looking for your dad? He got a phone call, I don't know what happened but I came up as my mum was having her hair done and searched the gaff and she said, he said where's Tom? She said I don't know and then they found a postcard that my dad had sent because he'd gone on with a crowd of other fellas that weren't criminals, he went away with a butcher, a taxi driver, all straight working friends of these, he kept his criminal friends separate from the trees, straight friends. Where did your dad go after the night of the robbery, to go on the run, whereabouts did he go? Well, to be honest James, it's all in wrong side of the tracks, the books so I prefer. No giving too much away? No. Where can people get the book? On Amazon or any other, you know, online. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's somebody, it's some story because I believe your dad was the second last person of the train, robbery going to be, we've passed away, there's one left. I've never got caught Mr Big but there's other things coming out, projects so I stand to the people that are producing them. How well connected was your dad in London at the time? He was very low profile, my dad, but apparently he was a career thief. I mean, prior to the train robbery I never saw him hardly to be honest because the time he'd come in, time he'd come in, I'd be asleep, getting ready for school, you know, he was a lovely dad. Where did your dad go after the 30 years? Yeah, he got sentenced to 30 years and he was in rule 43 for two years and my mum campaigned prior to, like, once she got, once the sentences were given, she started campaigning, I kept really pushing it to the home office why I've, you know, 30 years and the home office said your dad's been wanting to do 30 years, he'd do 12 and a half and he was right. That was, you know. She was quite a big sentence for a robbery, 30 years. Yes, considering they didn't have any guns, you know, what would they have got then if they had used guns, 30 years I suppose. Why did they not use guns, was that part of the plan? My dad's team from South London used the cosh, it's just to frighten the workers inside the train, you know, sort in place inside the train. So when your dad got the 30 years, obviously you've been involved in prisons and going up and down in visits and that kind of life, when you met Mad Frankie Fraser, how did that one become, how did that become about? Can you hear me one question? I'm sorry, man. Look at the Scoties, we talk fast. How did, because do you think, going up to the prisons all the time and spending a lot of time with your dad and that kind of underworld, that's why you kind of got the connection for a gangster like Mad Frankie Fraser? No, not really, it was when I sort of got older, sort of thing, when I was younger, Fe mae'n gŵr, rydw i'n gŵr i fynd i'r llwyddon, ond rydw i'n gŵr o'r mynd ar yr hyn i'w cyntaf. Ydw i'r hynny, rydw i'n gŵr i'n mynd i'w gobeithio'r ysgolfrindol, a gallwn ni wedi bod wedi gwneud ei fod yn gynnwys arall. Rydw i'n gwneudio am yr hyn yn gweithio. Rydw i'n gŵr i'r llwyddon i'r llwyddon? Mae'n cymddoedd cyfnodd i gynnwys i'r ffordd ifau yn dda'r ystod, ond ei wneud yn dod yn glorifio arall, bwysig yw'r ffordd ifau. Yw Llyfr? Ydw wedi'u gwneud yn ffordd ifau. Ydw wedi'u gwneud yn adigio ffyrdd o'r rhan o'r ffordd i a wnaid hynny i'r ffrank o'r mwy deud. Ydw wedi'u ffyrdd i'r llwyddo? Yn eich mwy fwy maen nhw. Ydw wedi bod yn ychydig o'r ffuneral o'r mwy deud. ac yn ymgyrch i'r ddechrau i ddweud o'r gwaith, ond, o'r peth, mae'n rhaid o'r ddweud o'r ddweud, a'r ddweud o'r ddweud, o'r ddweud o'r ddweud, mae'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud, felly mae gynnig o'r ddweud o'r deddd o gwaith tu Marketonaeth… Mae'n oeddill hamddiwyd, gan gofna siarad… Mae'b siarad ffeunyr a gall Fan repeatedly o'r pethau, nid oeddod, practiced byddai fan dyna, oedd oeddod o punydig. Mae hanolwyddiwch bod nhw, yn ymlaen o gofano ddim, Ac yw'r rhwng sy'n meddwl yw yw Frank started? Ie dis? Ac mae'n gweithio, mae'n 40 ymddangos yn prydyn? Frank, gwell yn? Frank sprint? Mae'n gweithio, da, mae'n gweithio'n 20 ac mae'n gweithio'n 18 yma, mae'n gwneud yn gweithio'n hwnnw. Ac mae'r 9 yma sy'n gweithio'n prydyn? Mae'n gweithio'n 10 yma. No, mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n prydyn mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n oedraeth o'r cyd-panfwys. Yw ychydig? Mae eich gweithadaeth cwaith ar gweithio, ond gallwn eisiau bwysig ac eich pwyntfyn maen nhw'n rôl fel y gweithio a wyfio'ch Côl yw ychyn nhw'n rhain ymlaen? Dwi'n credu ddim ddim o'r adnod that. Ie, mae'r cyhoedd ddod y dyfyrdd? Olyf i annu'n cyhoedd yw'n cyhoedd. Nid yw'r cyhoedd a'i gweithio. o, dyna, rhefn i'n gwneud bod eu dyfynod o'r awrach, oherwydd mae'n gwybodaeth ar mi ysbun. Ac mae'n dweud bod wedi ddod i fynd i'w gwneud, mae'n dweud yng Nghymru, felly mae'n ddechrau, rhai ddweud eich ysbryd yn fwy gwybod a'r rai'r gwybod, bo'r fwy oedd y 30-yrs gwybodaeth. Mae'n 37, mae'n 67. A gyd yn ffynol, yng Nghymru'r gwybodaeth a'u gwneud, Because I was like, anyway, I sat him down, I didn't even You know, I had to be face to face with him, I couldn't just leave him when I decided to leave him. I said to him, Frank, you know that privileged we was talking about when I've come to it and I've met someone else. Rwyf wedi cael ei wneud. Rwyf wedi'i gwneud am eu Llyfrgell, a rwyf wedi gwneud fel eich bod gennych chi, ac yn ymddi'r cyffredin, rydyn ni wedi'u gwneud i chi. Rydyn ni'n eu bod yn ymddi'r, ac mae'r hwyl yn gwneud i chi. Dwi leisio gyda'r cas yw'r llygu sy'n meddwl i ammai a oedden nhw wedi'i cael eu gwneud. Mae gennyddiol, fel oedd y ffordd, mae oedden nhw'n meddwl i mi neid yn fawr. Rydym ni wedi'ch dim y gallu ddigon a mae'n meddwl a'r cwp cyffredinol. Mae gofynwyr, ma'n leisio'n meddwl unrhyw ydy mewn ffordd, ond mae'r bethau a'r ddweud. Felly ond gŵl? Mae gennym, ond o'r gŵl? Mae'r gŵl o'r gyrch o'r gyrch o'r gyrch? Nida, rwy'n cael, nida. Nida? Nida, lle i'r bod ar y cwmdurinell flinedd? Nida, lle i'r bod ar y cwmdurinell fyrd. Felly ond yn gŵr anhygoel, chdiwp yma bankswyr. Mae'r bus, mae'n hynny'n ei gweld i ddim yn ff yr oeddaniaeth mewn�w'r bwysig, iddo, wrth gwrs, roeddwn i'n amddangos i amlo i'w cerddio i'n reoliio'r llunig o'i hyffordd, i'n pwbl am gyntaf, iliwodraeth eisiau i Martina Cole ac roedd yn ei hyn, donio'n gwneud i mi, ond eich warnio, dwi'n meddwl i'r pob cyffredol i'w unig honne i'r siwpet yn ei wneud iddo, ac ydw i'n broses hynny. Ac nid gyda'r broses yng Nghwyddi, rwy'n gwych yw'r hyn yn fath o'r fannau am ymddiddordeb, ac mae gynigion iawn i fath o blét o'r cael ymddangos. Mae'n bwysig o'r fath o falle, mae gwrthddon o'r bwrdd o'ch wneud, ond mae'n rhaid i ddaud o'r hyn i ddaiddog hefyd. Felly mae'n gallu chyfrwyto, Ielwch yn y gallu ymdweithio, roeddwn yn ddod o'r ddweud o'r diogel. Mae'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'n mynd i ddod. Mae'n rhai o'n blwyddyn nhw, RWD yn gwneud yn gweithio gyda'r ddweud. Mae'r ddweud yr ydych chi'n gwneud i'r meseg a ddod o clywed o'r ddwy. Dwi'n ddim ymddangos i ymgyrchu sy'n eu ddod o'i ddech chi'n ei ddod o'r ymgyrchu. Mae'r cyfeirwyr, yn ôl, yn fyddechrau i'r peth, yn ôl. Felly dwi'n gwybod i'n cael ei wneud. Rwy'n gwybod i'n gwybod i ddiwedd, ac mae'n cyfrifiad franky. Felly byddai'n cyfrifiad. mae'n cyfrifiad. Cwrwch i ddwy'n cyfrifiad gyda'r cyfrifiad, a ydych chi'n rhaid i am gyfweld i gael y peth yn ddoddi. Dwi'n ffwrdd. Rwy'n fwy o'r leif iawn i'r ffwrdd ar y llai'r llai. Felly mae'r ffordd. Felly mae'n meddwl. Mae'n meddwl o'r ddoddiadau. Mae'n meddwl. Mae'r prosesiaid y byddai. Felly mae'n meddwl. Mae'n meddwl. Mae'r mewn wnaeth. Mae gwelwch maedd. Mae'n meddwl honno. Mae'n meddwl. a dyna, I turn around and said, well I can't see what's the problem. So Frank said well I've only just, I'm only giving him a message. So he said, well yeah, it looks like it, you know. I said don't worry anyway they went the police. Do you know what I mean? It's like they frightened all of a sudden Frank, you know, and he was just delivering a message. How did you and Frank meet? Rydyn ni'n gobeithio at y tympan alyg, hefyd nid i'n gobeithio i'r tympan. Mae'r creu ac yn gweithio i'n gobeithio. Rydyn ni'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio. A Frank fel yw ymwneud hynny, i chi'n cyhoedd yma, oedd yn cael ei ffaluen i'w rhan o'r sgwr. Rydyn ni'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio i'n gobeithio. a ddim ddweud, dwi ddim yn ddechrau i ddim yn yw'n gwybod, a ddwi ddim i ddim yn ddweud hynny, ond arall wedi bod eich sgol yw'r iawn i'r cei. Dwi ddim yn ddweud, ym mhag i'w ddim yn ddweud, ac nid oed yn ddweud o'i ddweud. A ddim yn ddweud eich iddyn nhw, ac sydd oed yn ddweud o'i awg ysgrifiad. Yn ddweud, dwi ddim i, dwi ddim yn ddweud, ac rwy'n edrych yn oed ddweud. So, Frank said, oh, he said to, can I speak to the top security officer or the governor, please? He said, tell him it's mad Frank at the reception because he Frank had had a right in there years, years beforehand. You know, so the message come back. Oh, let him in, let him in, just get him to sign the book. His old age pension card, you know, the freedom pass. So the song you were singing crazy, he thought you were singing it about him? Yes. And then he's went to go and visit your dad in prison, both of yous. So did. Fucks. So yes, I must have said, just let him in, you know. Casey starts writing again. So there are good people, but, you know, not so many jobs worth that you get out today. I mean, the year has completely changed. You're going to get that. Yeah, there's the jobs worth it. Even the grasses and the little bitches nowadays. And how were you treated then? Were you treated with so much respect because people were feared? Because you were seeing Frank, it was people treat you. Oh, yes, compared to now, I'm Billy Noemates and everyone hates me now, you know, because I left him, but that was, as I said earlier, that was between us two, wasn't it? You know, which I'm glad I'm not a part of that scene no more, you know. Yeah, because you're, because you do sing in yourself, you're a singer. You opened a couple of nightclubs. No, I don't sing in any gap. I'm singing a pub over South London, but I'm I'm trying to I'm going to get this project off the ground to do a song, maybe crazy, donate it to the mental world charity that I know of. That helped me many years ago because in that lifestyle as well, everybody wants to meet the bad guy, the bad guys. And I know you went to a couple of events you were with like no Gallicur and Guy Richie. Is that opening a club? Yeah, it was as it happens. It was the club that Christine Keeler met for FOMO in. And I was and Frank was invited down there to sing. Um, I sang a couple of songs and all the stars were there. Jude Law, Nal, Gallicur, Wales. Oh, Camilla's relations. You know, Roy, yeah, they connected to them. And I understood that Prince Harry and Prince William wanted to come. But they went, no, no, no, you can't be seen. We've like ex-gangster in there. Who was, who's club was that? It was Guy Richie's and for, for Piers Adams. Must have been some club, right? Some names like that. Yeah, Guy Richie was married to Madonna, that one. Yeah, Guy Richie's a big name. There's a lot of film directing. Seems a nice guy. Seems a nice guy. Yes, he was, he was caught in Madonna at the time. He seemed a nice fella because I spoke to him. How was, ask, see you in your, with Nain and with the bank, the train robber and stuff. How were you at school? Did you go to school? How were you treated? Well, the teacher, I mean, there was one time that the teacher went today's nosing class, train robber escapes. No, maybe it was when he climbed up on the roof in the prison, that was it. Cos my dad was campaigning against the treatment and the conditions of the prison. I never wanted to look around, you know, that all the kids would say, Marilyn, like your dad, you know, Tommy Wisby, you know, put it out there in front of kids. Which I found was not nice. It was mainly like the grown-ups that were not very nice. Yeah, again, that's what people do, they judge, don't they, Marilyn? People judge and it must have been a difficult time or a difficult life at that point. It was when my sister passed away. What age was she? She was 16 and a terrible car crash. It was horrible. My father wasn't allowed out for the funeral, which I thought was disgraceful. Reginal Maudlin, he was the prime minister at the time, his daughter just had a baby, you know. It was disgraceful for him not to be allowed out to my sister's funeral. Yeah, why was that? He was allowed out for the hospital visit, but she was in intensive care, you know. And then later on, the craze were allowed out for the funeral for their mum and dad. It just shows you murder compared to robbery. You don't make sense in this justice system of theirs. Do they think your dad was going to escape? I don't think, like, if he was handcuffed to two prison guards, do you know what I mean? How would he escape if he had the hospital swammed around with armed guards when he went to visit? Why couldn't they have done that at the funeral discreetly? We've been reasoned, do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's sad. So that was a kick in the face for him, especially having to go in Kenny Sampson's, Freddie Sampson's cell, whose son was in the car. Yes, you've been through some trauma then? Apparently Freddie got beaten up in prison. He had a political vet in it. He passed away inside, and then when my dad got near a move from Parkhurst to Hull, he put him in Freddie Sampson's cell. My dad said he didn't do me no harm when he was alive, so he won't do me no harm. Even that was still playing Ned games with my dad. Did you ever meet the Cliz? I met Reggie, me and Frank went down to see him on a visit when he was in Maidstone, towards his final finishing sentence, Reggie. We sat down in the visiting room, he had his open neck shirt on with a big medallion, and then he said hello, hello, and then he went off talking all round the tables, and when he got back I said, come all this way and you're mugging us off, sitting round talking to other visitors on the visit, you know. I don't think the Cliz and Frankie got on, I thought they were rivals. Not really, no, because Frank knew the dead more and see them grow up when I was younger. Frank preferred Ronnie to Reggie, and again, I didn't go to Ronnie's funeral because I grew up with children called Nels children, so respect to them, I didn't go to Ronnie's. There's a lot of politics in that underworld, there's a lot of politics where you can't speak to one because other people are fighting at war? I think they're more like sisters today, they behave like women. The chaps, I call them the chaps, I don't call them faces. The criminals years ago, you'd never think they were criminals, they were skinny or well-dressed, they weren't all these big guys with tattoos and earrings and knuckle dust, plastic gangsters, you know who I'm talking about, do you know what I mean? His mum was a store detective, the paid. Cos you tried to act like a job, Marilyn, did you not in a post office? Ah, that's the nearest chance. The local social security officer tried to engage 20 of us from the North London branch for posting for the Christmas post and put my name down and he said, come back on the Tuesday the guy, he's scratching his head, he called everyone's names out, he said I can't make it out, he said, I'm like facing him. I said what's that, he said your name's not been accepted, I said, I leaned over, I went, you don't have it, it's cos my dad robbed it in 1963, do you? He said, well that won't have no relevance to you, I said well, it was a big lump, it was a big train robbery, I said no, as it happens you're right cos I didn't have no convictions at the time, just mine, Mr Meaners. So he didn't get the job basically, which is understandable, you tried to get a job in a post office and your dad's just worked. And I even tried to get a job in a small van for a security call. I tried every avenue job as I was, you know, after I left Frank and still couldn't get a job. Why banks though? Why banks? That money cos it's a job isn't it? Of course it is but with the history, obviously if your dad and team Frankie Fraser, people would have probably been like that, no chance, fucking no chance. But that's not fair. Of course it's not but you can understand, your dad was one of the biggest. But they say no discrimination, you know. Yeah of course but they don't want to see it that way. What my dad did was nothing, you know. I totally get it but if your dad robbed a train which had post office money in it and you went to get a job in a post office man, it was like no fucking chance. Is this a wind up? Cos again, how are you feeling now after everything? How do you feel mentally? Do you ever feel drained? Are you tired at all? Just what a fucking world when that was? That's a good question as it happens. I do miss the old days, I miss the old characters James. I've got to be honest. When I say characters, I mean people that run pubs, I mean the pubs today are not like, you get told off as laughing in some of them, you know. Just the characters and years ago the criminals then were like, they was polite. Had manals respect? Yeah, if someone got nicked, they'd go around and treat the wives, you know. I don't do that no more. I know what you're saying, like manals on respect, people said fuck how can a criminal who's maybe robbery or murder have respect but I know what you're saying, they were pleasant to the parents, they always had respect, there was always morals where if there was a crime it was weird to explain but I understand what you're saying. They looked after themselves, they looked after the families who were in prison so if somebody was to get to jail they would look after the kids again. Nowadays it's full of grasses, it's shite bags, it's people who think they're gangsters, people sell drugs and they think automatically they've got a badge to be tough. They do as it was proper, things were sorted out as well. There's too much bitching nowadays, there's too much backstabbing, there's not enough loyalty. There's not enough loyalty. Which is tough but then again in the other world we're in a life of crime, it still is a bad life. You're still hurting so many people along the way. I always say everything has a ripple effect, like if your dad went to prison that would have affected you, it affected your mum, it affects so many different kinds of people in that life and even though that day and age when you were involved in it with such powerful names it must have been a buzz for you as well, you must have been some adrenaline rush to be involved in that life and surrounded with the characters you were involved in. I wasn't involved, I was surrounded by them. Once I knew whose daughter I belonged to, once I knew I belonged to it, I just took it as it came. Do you ever get to prison yourself, Madeleine? Do you ever get to jail or anything? I was acquitted for the cocaine as it was my flat, me and my mum. How much was there, how much coke? I'm promoting every book we can here, we've got gangsters' malls, we've got the wrong side of the track which is Madeleine's dad. This looks like a great book by the way, when was this released three or four years ago? I think it came out July three years ago. So this book is about a man who was involved in the most famous robbery of all time. It happened over 50 years ago and still captures the imagination of the world today. It's the story of the ambush of the overnight Scotland to run the travelling post office express and has become known as the great train robbery. Post office express, I can't believe you try to get a job in a post office. I think it's great but what's the plans for yourself for the future? Have you got any more books coming out or what do you see yourself doing now? I really want to concentrate on helping someone to write a script about my life and I'll involve my mum in it, Frank, obviously, pre-train. I'm trying to get someone to invest in it to pull up some money. So another company will pull up the money for this series. I want to do a mini-series. So how can people contact you then for anybody who's watching that's interested in your story? I'll be your agent, not a problem. You know, because I've suggested it to a producer. We can get the first initial fee because it comes in stages then you get other people to invest in it. Of course, but you've got a story there to tell, clearly. It's easier to write it down. I'm a writer and a singer. I'm not really a conversationalist. So how can people get in contact with you then if they want to get involved and maybe help you with producing a documentary or writing a new book? If I leave you my email because I'm always watching your video. If you can do that. Send me your email and we'll get the email to pop up. I'm coming in from a different angle. But if you have anything else you'd like to say before we finish up. Just that I'm going to upload crazy and I want to put some money towards a mental health charity. And what's your YouTube channel? It's Marilyn Wisby. And you were named after Marilyn Monroe, who's your mum's favourite actress? Yes. For coming on today and coming to speak to us and telling your story further, they enjoyed it and it's a crazy story. I've got a bit tongue tied but it's not as easy talking. It's not. I mean, Frank was terrific when he was on the television. He was terrific. But he would have had his interviews through the police for 50, 60 years when they got used to it. I just look at him when he's having interviews and I feel so proud about him. Anyway, it won't keep me time and I enjoyed it very much. Thanks for telling your story and I really appreciate it and hopefully we'll see you soon. Thank you.