 The South Bronx and City Council meeting of Tuesday, September 7th, and we'll begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay. And we'll do as instructions on exiting building in case of emergency and review of the technology options. So as we are in a new space, just want to remind everyone in the room and who may come to a future meeting that there are two exits at the back of the room. Go out of either, and then go out of either the back door or the main door to the, in front of the library. I want to share a couple of updates on technology use in this new room as we kind of figure out all of these details. One to the folks joining on go to meeting. Thank you for being here. I hope you can hear all of us. I know I am personally muted, but the sound is being picked up by Tom meeting TV. The chat for the council procedures that were adopted last time. The mic working on the chat in go to meeting will now be disabled. We are asking for anyone who wants to make comment on the record to unmute themselves show their face and make comment publicly. I will be monitoring the chat. So if you are interested in speaking during the meeting, please just send a quick message through the chat to me and I will be passing those names on to chair really. And then finally in the room. If you are interested in speaking, please come up to the microphone at the podium. These mics are very sensitive. So be gentle with them. If you're touching them, please don't pick them up. But we will be sure to adjust to be able to hear your comments as well. Okay. Great. Thank you. Item three is agenda review. Are there any additions, deletions or changes in order of agenda items? I believe we have one, Megan. I would like to add an executive session as a new 18C for the purposes of discussing a personnel matter under VSA chapter 313 section A3 with no action to be taken. Okay. We have to vote on that. Ready for that vote? All in favor of an executive session at the end of the meeting? Signify by saying aye. Aye. So that carries 5-0. Thank you. Are there any other changes or additions? No. But since you were mentioning technology stuff, do you know what the guest Wi-Fi password is? I do. The olden days, we'd have a sign in the room. It's SBBT. Yes. Everything capitalized but the UESB. 180 exclamation point. And for those in the room, if you want to see it, it's written down on the board. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any comments? And questions from the public not related to the agenda? Please come up. I don't know how to do. If you prefer, you could go to the table where the mic is a little lower and then we can see you. Please introduce yourself. Introduce yourselves. My name is Kathy Allery. Before that microphone up close for you. Or I can try to speak louder. My name is Kathy Allery. I'm Karen Allery. And we live next door at Allard Square. And we're not here representing Cathedral Square. We're here representing Cathedral Square. We're here representing ourselves and other residents. We're here because of the traffic problem on Market Street. The lack of signage. We've, I personally have been trying for three years to get a crossing light or something on Market and Mary Street. I've been almost hit like within inches in the middle of the road. Two times last week. And at least three other times or four other times over the last three years. Cars go speeding up and down the street. Like it's a drag strip. There's no, there's two speed limit signs. One at each end. There's none in this area. The crossing, the yellow sign for the crosswalk is sort of obstructed by a tree. And our building, we have several people. I know there's another woman in a wheelchair type thing, but there, it's a 55 and plus community. Several people using walkers. They get across the street without almost getting hit. In fact, Saturday night, one of our residents, she was walking. And she, the car came so close to hitting her, she fell backwards. It was at night. She was not in dark colored clothes. It was a dark colored car. The person did stop. She got all bruised up. And I just, you know, I've been going back and forth with Justin Rabbitu for the last three years. I was in really good contact with the previous town manager about it. They did put a barrel in the middle of the road. But the road is so narrow, people were hitting it. And it got destroyed. Or they would take it and put it on the road. I have enough health issues that I really don't want to be killed by a car. Actually last, it was Thursday afternoon and Friday morning. We were almost hit crossing. And I came week Thursday afternoon. I came right in, spoke to the lady at the desk. I said, I was here about a month and a half ago. I said, I was here about a month and a half ago. When you first opened, I said, I believe her name was Andrea. No one's like that. Me. She did up an email. To you. I had not heard a word. I believe Justin followed up with you after that. The second time when I came in Thursday afternoon. Yes. Justin called me. And after eight Friday morning. And I told her, and I will be until something gets done about that crosswalk. I will be here every single time that we are almost, or someone in our building is almost hit. She goes, well, I cross up here all the time and nothing happens. Yes. Because the cars can see you crossing there. When they can't see you, they floor it. They come around the purve. This is crossing market street. Crossing market street at the Mary street. Just on the other side of Ellard square. Right. Because our door is right there. The extension of Mary street. And that's a problem to crossing Mary street. No, no. No, it's just market street. To the other side. Because a lot of us like I go to Trader Joe's all the time. Right. So yeah. And the other problem too is people in front of the building. Parking on the wrong side of the street. And doing U-turn. They get out. They're one, it's illegal to park on the other side of the street. They're doing it all the time. And then they. Do U-turn right in the middle of the road. I thought there were some parking. Lots on the other side of the street. There's parking. But you're saying people are parking. They're parking the wrong way. Either way. They park in front of this building. Which is headed. Oh, so they cross. Okay. They cross the traffic. Is that what you're saying? Okay. Which is illegal. Okay. And doing a U-turn is illegal. No parking. Okay. So, you know, those are the issues. And I will be here. Every meeting. And tomorrow night, I'm going to the bike and pedestrian meeting. Now that you're right next door. I can do it. Well, good. And hopefully. Maybe next meeting or the following meeting. I may do a presentation. But we appreciate you coming in. And I share your concern. So we'll see what we can do. That's what I've been told for the last three years. But I know that's all you can say. What else I can say, Kathy. I know that. But I know that's all you can say. I mean, it's, you know, it's not like tomorrow, there's going to be a. Crossing light on, you know, where we push a button in the light flashes or something. To get people's attention. I know that's all you can say. I know that's all you can say. I know that's all you can say. There's going to be a lot of people's attention. You know, that's not going to happen tomorrow. Does that happen in three years? Is that what you would prefer. That's what we would like. And that's what we've been asking for. For the last three years, everybody in our build, you know, people in our building. And hopefully I just brought this to people's attention yesterday. That the meeting was today. And next month. Better time, you know, I'll know more in advance, and I'll have more residents here to Let you know actually how many people it's happening to Not just the two of us Okay. Well, just so you know our next meeting is the 20th of September It's usually on a Monday night unless the Monday day National holiday or a state holiday. Yeah, okay. Okay Meet twice a month Well, we have another issue, but well, we've taken up enough time for tonight You're free. You've got the floor. Okay. You want to hand it out? Yep. I Did do a little They couldn't I don't sleep Dear The other thing that we have a concern about is on the east side West side of the school parking lot. Mm-hmm. They put up a no exit sign She has she'll she has pictures. Thank you and the no exit sign is white background on black and It about eight nine feet tall There's a picture of Karen in front of it and Cars come out of the school That air all the time and with our residents coming out of the parking garage People coming to this building back and forth from Mary Street And the electric cars There's gonna be an accident. I Did mention it to the bike and pedestrian people And What I think should have been done is on the last page of that is the Do not enter sign or emergency vehicles only which People are still gonna do it And I know for a fact because I have a friend whose grandchildren go to Rick Marcos school That the parents have been told not to exit out that exit Yeah, enter or exit and they come they come speeding And this is close to Mary Street. Yes, okay? No, okay over here I get lost so it is over there. Yeah Yep It's a little opening right after the With the wooden fence, uh-huh, it's right there and then the stop sign She's standing in front of is right here in front of the building on the this the west side Side it I guess I don't know if it has a name. I think it's They have to name it, right? Yeah, but right now it's I think referred to as school street Yeah, but that exit over there. That's the stop sign and a comparison One one day I was up early enough I Counted 25 cars coming out of that paper that's no way that no exit time We live on that side of the pills. We right the UPS drivers do it As the drivers do it. I Might suggest that you also share this with the school board Just because they have would have the opportunity to really educate parents and UPS delivery people As well as potentially their own faculty and staff for the first few weeks that was UPS has done it, but now that you're open here. They have to make deliveries here Okay, but I'm not trying to kick the can down the road, but that's a separate entity And it would be good for them to hear from you your concerns We can also share it with them, but I think from hearing from citizens is a little more. Yeah, I will Get that information to them now can I ask a question is What was initially our entrance to our parking lot and our garage is that going to be a Work anyone comes from Mary Street Around the back of Allard Square Over to this way where the I don't think that's a street there will be The extension of Mary Street, I believe once sidewalks and Some of the safety things are built on Mary Street and they figure out other issues Right. There's lots of issues with that. That's why it's not open yet. I know we don't think that's the plan There's a lot work me if I'm wrong. Yeah, we talked to residents on that street, so Well, they have their own set of yeah Don't drive down my street. Yeah. Yeah, I get it So, yeah, we just you know because we get to go back and tell everybody in our building You know what happened here tonight, so Okay, great. We're done Enforcement is also Something that you should always feel free to call the police and we get what do you want us to do about it? Okay The dispatcher will say what do you want us to do about it? I'm sorry to hear that but maybe Ellen if I can add something the person I work with at the United Way also mentioned how difficult and dangerous it is To pull out of the parking places across the street with cars coming in from Dorset Street around that curve I can attest to that. I was here at 8 a.m. This morning and I had to be very careful getting out of my car Yeah, I'm very careful pulling out In fact, I got out of my car and then walked back to the sidewalk and went to the crosswalk at the school street Because it was the safest place because it was everybody was coming to drop off their kids Plus there were you know commuters and stuff. I mean it was a fair amount of traffic So it begs for your attention when there is a high traffic Excuse, may I add something about the signage? There's no school zone sign Okay meant to mention that sorry. Yeah Okay, thank you. Okay. Thank you very much for coming out. At least it wasn't pouring rain. It was a good night to Yeah No, but it was raining pretty hard last night. So Are there any other comments? Excuse me and questions from the public Anyone not anyone on go-to-meeting? Okay. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Hi. Shelly Matthias. Hi Hi My name is you can't hear you so I Know I've got my mute button off. Can you hear me now? Shelly nobody can hear you yet Hmm Correcting that technical Yeah I'm sorry my mute button is off. So I'm not on mute. I Can hear you Shelly. So I know your mute button is off, but they can't hear you Okay. Well, you know if it's technically difficult. I know we're sort of running against your time So I can come back on the 20th can hear so people on So it's random Do you Want me to say something so you know what if it's doing anything here you I can come back difficulties Well, that's right. You have direct TV if ever it's raining Goes off. I Think I'll I'll come in person to the next meeting I couldn't do it tonight. So I'll come in Okay Sure, is this any better Sorry, I'm fine coming in person to the next meeting. I think it's not in from your iPad I Seriously, I I can come in person to the next meeting. I don't want to waste your time So it is not it's not a problem for me to come to your meeting Unfortunately, they can't hear you Shelly It might be good waited so that they know how to fix the problem. So it doesn't happen I would do that Right, I'm just wondering though if we can move on to announcements and city managers report and then come back to this It's just a suggestion, but if you want to wait we can Okay, if we keep going and come back to this in the back of the room All right, Shelly you can hear Yeah, I can hear you Can you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you, but here's the thing We're gonna come to the next agenda item while the tech technical folks in the back of the room try and figure this out Can I just can I just say I have family visiting from New Jersey and I stepped away to do this So I'd rather just come in Okay Shelly why don't you enter in the chat box? I did are you dead? Okay? Okay? I'll see you on the 20th Okay Thank you. Sorry We're very sorry That's okay. This happens. Okay Unfortunately, it does happen Okay So we are gonna keep going but we are gonna try and figure this out in the room because we will need it for later agenda items Is there a do you wish to speak? Oh? Okay, okay Okay, so we'll move on to item for I'm sorry I'd have five announcements and the city managers report so starting from my left I just want to give a special thank you to John Wilking of the Rotary for working with the South Burlington Police Department To host a lovely South Burlington Police Department Thank you and appreciation banquet at Wheeler and Counselor Emery did a great job giving some nice remarks to open up the ceremony So it was a wonderful evening marred with a little rain to begin with but other than that It was a great night, and I'm really glad that it came that it happened. Yeah, I will just add my voice to Tom So I want to thank the the South Burlington Rotary Club, I thought that you did a wonderful job the rain cleared up just in time I think you know and it turned out to be a really nice evening I think it's nice that the families Often not with their families when Right of us can enjoy it I I just wanted to say that In addition to to what? Are to Kathy and Carol Allery said I have been working with the Chamberlain elementary school principal Her name is Holly Ruel because we also have an issue with traffic in front of Chamberlain, and I don't think it's unusual when you have Deadline, you know kind of a cut-off time when parents have to get their children to school and Many parents feel uneasy about letting their children go on the bus with COVID and masking you get a lot more cars and you get people trying to get to a place at a certain time And it is a kind of it it makes for dangerous mix and so what we Have made her you know a request or Holly did Holly Ruel did to Justin to go through the CCRPC process to actually have a red blinking light at The entrance to Chamberlain school on White Street Simply catch the driver's attention. This is a crosswalk and we have to let people cross safely here, and I think that I Think it's something I just wanted to say because we did hear from the two the two residents of Allard Square that it can make for really bad mix You know with school and and everybody in their cars And fingers crossed that it will work that they'll get the grant and that they can have Solution for for that crosswalk in front of Chamberlain school. It's been a years-long issue. It's not new And it's just something to consider Matt Just wanted to add that I also was at the Event Especially to be with this up going to police department and all their families and counselor and councillor Okay, yeah, I was out of town, but I did do some house inspections for the BCA and assisted in the report Okay, thank you Okay, I was I've also been rather active with the BCA and spending Saturdays and Sundays visiting people's homes and And then Thursdays Although not this Thursday Voting on our different recommendations. So it's a A very time-intensive process, but I think a very important one and everyone is really stepped up to Take their turns that visiting and coming to all the meetings and participating And I thank all of the members because it is in some ways a little thankless but I've been involved and and happy to do so CCTA also had a meeting and One of the things I know they sent to Jesse and me With this, you know new technology and the efforts to have a Process at all the communities where you Right town meeting TV. Sorry You know, it's been a challenge to provide the kind of interface with Go-to-meeting or zoom as well as the in-person Work with all the communities, but they're working on it and I think Except for this one glitch tonight We're pretty lucky because we built it into the new system. It's a little harder for the other Communities, but that said they're also it's taking more effort and we have people at these meetings And and so they are sending or recommending an MOU that lays out potentially some additional charges Pretty important, so I'm just sort of putting it out there. I'm cast dollars keep going down There's fewer people are Buying their products. They're just streaming on their own and So we just I'm sort of pitching that ahead of our budget discussions that that will be another Issue for us to deal with and I know in the past. We've also talked about having planning commission meetings online like the The DRB and and our committee With the council so that's another item as a heads up Madam chair, do you have any more information about Jean Richards as director of the airport? I Don't have any more than what you've read in the newspaper. I believe he is going before the Burlington City Council Thursday To plead his case my understanding is his concern largely is the process I Don't believe he thinks he's going to be reinstated and that probably isn't his end game, but he does I believe want to have the Process discussed and some of the news articles have indicated. I Agree with him that at least the review process is lacking. It appears So that is an area for improvement with the Director But that's all I know I mean he's on non-paid minutes. Well, I guess There was a period of time when it was non-paid. So that's all I can It's in the hands of the Burlington City Council at this point Okay Managers report. Thank you So a number of updates for you all in the community tonight As usual I'll start with our COVID monitoring So we are continuing to track the local COVID data very closely for the last two week period We saw 39 new cases in South Burlington. That's actually slightly down from what we had been seeing in early August So we're continuing to track that but really do thank everyone who's here in the audience and participating for masking up and encourage everyone to encourage their loved ones to get vaccinated Tangentially related to the pandemic I did want to mention this last time But did again want to say that if folks in our community are having financial challenges paying their utility bills or their property taxes We do have tools to help So if you are having trouble playing your utility bills, please get in touch with Public works. You also should have gotten a stuffer in your recent utility bill And if you're having trouble paying your property taxes, we can set up payment plans with you And folks should reach out to Martha Lyons our assessor Delinquency notices will be going out at the end of this week for the first installment of taxes We have 360 notices going out that sounds like a lot, but with almost 7,800 parcels in the city It's actually under 5% of our parcels. So something we again are tracking pretty closely Moving on from that it is With great sadness that I share that Justin Rabadou has submitted his letter of resignation effective January 7th 2022 He is giving us four months to ease the transition To get us through the policies and strategies process the FY 23 budget And allow us to have a very intentional Process to find our next public works director I Could just take a moment to say Justin was a big part of why I came to South Burlington He is known statewide as being a leader in public works administration He's done huge amounts to move us forward move our infrastructure forward in South Burlington and will be Big shoes to fill so please join me in thanking him over the next months to come We will also start immediately working on Doing an intentional recruitment process and hope to involve lots of members from the community in that process as well Pending your approval tonight of the policy priorities and strategies process I will be sending out to the council a doodle poll request to find that day that we can all meet to do that Prioritization work together at the end of October And I'm very thankful to the committees who have already started having their conversations around that effort So I think there's gonna be great data flowing to you all A couple of project and events updates paving has started on the Allen Road shared use path There's some markings left to do but that project is moving along fairly quickly So we should see the completion of that in the next month or so And thanks for recent council conversation about the unlicensed dogs The police sent out that letter as we discussed in the beginning of August and as a result we've had 134 new dogs and cats registered. I'm so really made a dent in that process. So thank you for that recommendation Thanks to the city clerk for making that happen We are looking for police officers as you've probably read nationally recruiting police officers right now is a very significant challenge And we would love some local folks to apply and be South Burlington residents and police officers So if folks are interested, please reach out or folks know anyone who they would like to encourage that would be great And then I have a couple of public events to Mention on Saturday as most folks know probably know is the 20th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks in New York City And the fire department will be hosting a memorial event from 6 30 to 7 30 that evening at Overlook Park As somebody who lived and worked in Manhattan on 9-11. I it's always something I think about every year There will also be a hybrid public forum on September 23rd at 5 30 here in this room and a virtual option on the Hubbard Park natural area and concepts for that Planning over time how to use that space for passive recreation. That's September 23rd at 5 30 conceptual planning on the Hubbard Park recreation and natural area our preservation partnership and Audubon Vermont and Vermont Land Trust are hosting an opportunity for land owners to come and learn about Conserving their property that will be on September 18th at the Nordic Farms in Charlotte in the morning There's more information on our website about that event if folks are interested Senior Center is now offering weekly meals and has Events every day every weekday throughout the month. So if you're interested in that Stay tuned to our senior center page. And then finally September is program Palooza at the library the library team has put together a 30 days of programming Every day in in September. So they have a great slate of things to come and explore our new facility with Especially wanted to call out that tomorrow evening at 6 they will be hosting a panel of veterans who served in Afghanistan Educate the community about that lived experience then and that lived experience in the last month and that's really I want to highlight that because it's Suggestive of what the library team is looking to do in the months and years to come which is be very responsive to the events that are currently happening in our communities Let me be sure great. What's going on? That's terrific Item 6 consent agenda we have five items disbursements numerous minutes September 21st November 16th June 7th June 21st July 19th July 23rd August 3rd and August 17th Yeah, and we have an authorization to negotiate In a contract for design of Spear Street bicycle and pedestrian improvements approval of the policy priorities and strategies process that City manager Baker was just alluding to and Approved the National Library of Medicine grant for veterans tele help project application So I'm gonna prove the consent agenda Second. Are there any comments or quick questions? All right all in favor signify by saying aye aye. So the consent agenda passes five zero. Thank you Okay, moving on to interviews with applicants for appointment to the South Burlington Sexton committee Yes, you may so I believe if the microphone on go-to-meeting is working we have one candidate Chris train on go-to-meeting and then one candidate Maureen O'Brien in the room with us And just a reminder to the council that and then we have to the current two current members Peter Taylor and Donna And they'll coming in next at your next meeting to talk about this as well You can you can appoint as many sextants as you'd like. There's no hard number the way there is Well, I'm thrilled that we have two candidates because this was the kind of forgotten committee until Tom Chittenden wanted to join it so perhaps your Involvement on that committee helped advertise it so Maureen since you're here Please come forward and again. Thank you for your interest And we read your your Application I think it's kind of interesting that this sort of researching genealogy Has sort of connected you to thinking about making sure our Cemetery's are kept up and in good shape so I Think that's a nice connection that I'm not sure our sextant committee ever had so I thank you for kind of Connecting those two issues Tell us a little bit about yourself But the microphone next to your mouth maybe maybe that'll be better So six or seventh generation Vermonner both sets of great grandparents came to Burlington or South Burlington in the mid mid to late 1800s I Got interested in genealogy and family history and the history of South Burlington from my grandmother who grew up at the top of Vansick Lynn Road And whose house is still there? Oh in the Stone House? No, well she lived there for a while, but she actually was born in the house just after muddy brook on the right-hand side the little brook house She would tell stories about you know going to school up on Hinesburg Road And how the the soldiers during the war of 1812 there was an encampment on them of them on the frouveled farm road But she would send us down there looking for Looking for treasures and things like that And I've gotten involved with the genealogy library in Essex a number of years ago. I managed their Facebook page And now that I'm retired I have time and we my husband and I go around the state and clean graves that gravestones for our ancestors That's kind of seen I had talked to Tom probably about a year ago now About this and I saw the opening. I said well now's the time Are there any questions Talking what time did you ask or did you learn what is involved, but you'll be doing on this committee Yeah, I had talked to Donna a couple weeks ago, and it doesn't seem to be a lot of heavy lifting, but there's a lot of opportunities The Vermont Old Cemetery Association They it's a group of volunteers that travel around the state and clean Graves sites gravestones graveyards They do grants so there's a lot of possibilities out there Yeah Well, I do you have any questions for us? No, I think it's pretty self-explanatory You know you kind of meet when you feel you need to and Great projects as they come up. All right. Well our process is We will hear from is it Chris And Then the two other individuals are already on the committee, so we typically Have them continue unless they've really messed up or something I just want to say I'm really excited that you're interested in doing this You're perfect for the committee and you definitely have my vote So we'll make a decision We can do that tonight probably can So maybe we'll just vote tonight. I don't think it needs to be in The cloak of darkness we can All right, well, thank you so much. Thank you for your interest So Chris Thrain is Microphone issue on go to meet him been resolved. Oh Well So can we see Chris There's Chris Hello Again, you've you're bringing another aspect. I think to The sections committee that I don't know if they've ever had anyone who was a licensed funeral director I think that is kind of an a really interesting additional perspective that Would really be valuable and helpful to that committee and our efforts to either both improve and you know maintain our current Cemetery's and certainly having a hobby is exploring old cemeteries would We've got a couple so you can Know use your expertise and interest I think in helping that committee No, we can't hear you but If we were to turn off our microphones and just listen to your laptop Is that something we could do or is that danger don't touch the microphone? Gentlemen in the back if we turned off these mics and turned up my laptop to hear him would that work So we can actually push them Mike but hey Chris, I'm going to turn off my mic and turn you up We're going to stop talking and see if we can hear you without the feedback. Sorry about all this confusion That's that's okay. Can you hear me? Excellent, so Chris, can you hear us? Can you hear me now? I can yes Okay, so the challenge here is we can't be heard and hear you at the same time So I'm going to start talking and unmute you and share with us What your interest in the sextons and whatever you would like us to know about yourself. Thank you Very good Hi folks, my name is Chris Thrain. I've lived in South Burlington for 30 years now Raised my daughter here and gone through all the South Burlington schools I've been a licensed funeral director in Burlington for 20 going on 22 years now and one of my enjoyable hobbies is exploring historical cemeteries and Whenever I travel to a different state if I have the time I get on Google Maps and find old historical cemeteries Some where the gravestones have fallen over and uncover them and just learn more about them and this position I Saw posted and it just looked very interesting as I have explored a few of the older cemeteries around South Burlington and very much would like to give back what I can to the city and to Be able to help families out like I do most most every day and Just giving back, you know, if they need assistance getting into one of our cemeteries and guiding them through the process That's about it unless you have more questions. That's great. Thank you very much Chris Sounds wonderful. Yeah, I think that's great. So I Don't know as we have to spend a whole lot of time discussing we have two wonderful candidates with Really interesting and additional Perspectives around we'll probably have the most vibrant sex them committee in the state Hey Chris, can you hear me? Just nod your head. Okay. So I have a question is your favorite Cemetery in the Northeast the Mount Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge, Mass, you know, I have not been there yet, but that's on my list It's definitely what I got to see and also Arlington I got to get down to Arlington. Oh great. So so I would like to move that we appoint Chris Thrain and Maureen O'Brien to the Sexton's committee any further discussion All in favor signify by saying aye Any opposed? Hey, that was a 5-0 vote. Thank you both very very much for being willing to Give some precious time to this community Thank you. Okay, moving on to I might suggest I'm very sorry about this the the presenter for item number eight is on go to meeting So that's going to be challenging in this current setup Paul was just here Okay Justin is joining by you will also be remote and that's item 11 Paul is back. Oh good. Do you feel about skipping to the official map while we Yeah Oh Great And then we'll be ready Hello, let's see if folks can hear you Can you say hello again, so Jessica I'm here in person and we're here to introduce the official map amendments Would you like to give a little introduction? I'm putting the map up on the screen the purpose for tonight is if the council is prepared to warn a public hearing on These potential changes the official map just as a reminder for everybody who's Watching it plays a role in development for you. And so Items that are on the official map whether it's in this case or a roadway or recreation path or any other public facilities need to be accommodated during the development process and if an applicant chooses not to Then the project is denied The council then has a period of time to consider acquisition of the land for that facility And so it has a process like that. So that's the role that this play are there any question burning questions or that you need to hear a broader conversation about the topic for the public hearing word description And stuff the materials Related out pretty well Tom sauce one so it seems to make sense and I love that the planning commission was unanimous I just remember if you want to say it was 2015 2016 we heard from Fire police planning as well as DPW with topics their their perspective on the Swift Street extension Is it safe to assume that the planning commission did as the exhaustive of a consideration and heard from all of those different constituencies prior to their vote on the matter they did they inquired with all of the Entities that you spoke with spoke about police fire and DPW to get their perspectives on it I think that as context one important thing that was completed since that 2015 discussion was the city undertook a Philly Drive, Kimball Avenue transportation study So for that whole area of the city that Was presented to you I think last summer as the final report From a transportation perspective this sort of large network one of the we had the Consulting team look at the implications of Swiss Street extension being completed as a road or not and The the most significant big picture transportation implication of it being built Would be to remove Future traffic load from Kennedy Drive Which is not a road that is over traffic at this time and so that Was was a lot of information for the planning commission to consider that if it's most significant Transportation rule is to move traffic from a road that is designed for traffic Then then I think it it hit the scales on the other issues that are under consideration That said you know from a planning perspective We do try to connect neighborhoods whenever we can This is a somewhat unique circumstance of the natural resources, but city-wide on a general policy we try to connect streets for efficiency One follow-up So great I'm fine with Swiss Street extension as described in the packet my this is the first time seabring has come before me Maybe I missed the meeting, but so is it safe? Could you tell it confirmed that seabring was unanimous in the planning commission and I just don't want to act too quickly because taking it off the map Reduces our options and puts more financial burden on the city if things occur So I'm fine with what you come forward But can you allay any of my concerns that we might be moving too quickly on the seabring sure you're speaking about the connection between Deerfield Avenue down to IDX Drive and Seabring. Yep, but that that's been on the official map for a long time It was removed as part of the 2016 comprehensive plan as Jessica said the city had actually received a letter planning commission from UVM Inviting that removal of that would be a good idea You know generally speaking the city does lack some east-west connectivity that that's the reason why there have been a lot of a lot of planned roadways going east-west Similar to the situation at Swiss Street extension This would mean cutting up the Hortfarm, which has been very widely Prioritized in the comprehensive plan and elsewhere as being an important resource in our community to retain as the Hortfarm And so the planning commission back in 2016 felt that they did not want to send mixed messages about What the future of the Hortfarm should be to say on the one hand we want it conserved on the other hand We're planning a roadway for it. No, it's conserved as the wrong word to be retained as the Hortfarm East-west transportation is always good, but in this instance again, this is a balance of Yes You said Hortfarm not horsefarm Horticultural yes, I do It's a mass sometimes muffled. Good to see you Paul The two questions one is regarding that that connection at UVM horticultural farm. Is there a pedestrian path recreation path? That that week just like we we should be making sure that we can connect the neighborhoods via Walkers and bikers. Can we connect walkers and bikers if we give up that plan roadway there anything we can retain to? Keep that connection for pedestrians There are connections that exist to the north and to the south of the horticultural farm today through Samansky Park and through the Green script that you see that looks like sort of a little letter V to the south of it I Guess my suggestion would be that rather than looking at that through the development review lens of the official map That as we've had a long tradition of working with UVM Recreation paths through their property Like for the wheel off property and the ropes course and all that that that might be an avenue to consider How do we both maintain the horticultural farm for what it is and also? Consider and work collaboratively to invite the public to it rather than having it be a little bit more of an adversarial tool that Official map is of when you come in the bill. This is what you must do So that might be my suggestion but you're suggesting that we have less levers and we do over the that the other connection that we have where We're actively talking about creating a 20-foot right away in a pedestrian path Right, I guess the difference being that it is Anticipated that the Swiss Street extension property that the Hill farm will be developed at some point Developer would pay for that pedestrian connectivity whereas here The this would not be triggered on the horticultural farm until unless it were actually Built upon which is not anybody's Very good point. And then one last question Just because it's staring is right in front of me. I know it's not part of this but number seven on the map. Yeah So where is that officially we're talking about the connection between cider mill drive and 116 connecting Doing the east-west connection between Dorset Street and 116 Is where is that on the official map right now? It is a planned roadway on the official map Jessica you may want to elaborate on this but the Planning Commission Recognizes that there's still a lot of work to be done on the official map and as part of their motion to remove The roadway across the Hill farm. They said that they would like to separately follow up with an examination of future east-west needs Including the one that you're referring to in acknowledgement of the one that is going to be built a cider mill to But they felt that There was an action that they could take in the short term that was widely agreed upon with the Twistly and that they could study and examine the other ones as an important subject in city But not tie them together and have it be a project that sort of gets too big And I know I don't need to remind you but some people may not know that there is money set aside The development review board decided when cider mill 2 was developed in order to build that roadway should a future developer Decide to connect those areas. That's correct. So each there was a what money money set aside Side of the condition developers $1,000 per unit is dedicated for Building the connection up between side of no one and the Marcel Meadows property Which is the the city owns the right of way there, but there's no roadway, right? Yes I believe I can confirm with with UVM campus planning, but I believe that the Hort farm is largely if not entirely There is a path currently from just below Overlook Park they connects into Manskey Park and it goes right next to the Hort farm for portion, but there's a fence line But if you go down into over look into the curb area, there looks like Any other questions Yes, so the counselor code is question Did I hear you say correctly Paul that since the horticultural farm is not currently zoned for certain development that should UVM Try to do something like that that would initiate a process where we could as a city have the leverage to state We want some has or right of ways for pedestrian access That is the that is a power of the official map. So if Let's say it was a roadway as it currently is there then If the Hort Horticultural Farm ever came in for development, they would need to accommodate a road If it was a half then it would be the same It would be the same sub Right now we're removing that so that path won't be there. Correct So I'm completely fine on the Swift Street extension, but I feel like we are negating future options as well as not protecting the city's interests in pedestrian and connectedness by removing that sea pathway and I'm interested to hear your response to possibly considering Additional similar language to that area to retain the city's official map interests Which puts the financial burden on the developer if my understanding is correctly from it It just seems like we're giving away options that have true cost of future taxpayers, but am I wrong? No, I think I mean that's that's what the official map is intended to do it's intended to Assure that certain infrastructure exists at the time of development I think in the instance of a roadway that Planning Commission felt that it was sending mixed messages That it was someone implying that the city wanted to see it built so see see development on the property A recreation path. I don't know Jessica Would would you think that the Planning Commission might want to review Councilor Chittenden's question before the public hearing? About retaining the Just really sure I got the right so replacing the plan roadway across the horticultural form with a planned path You know, I think you address the connectivity in that area really well like there are paths that essentially go all the way around it now with the east-west connections to the south and to the north and And Kind of north-south just on the you know the east side so you know, I think that was part of the Discussion that you know, essentially you can you can travel by footwork like all the way around it by car Most of the way around already that we didn't really feel like we needed another connection right through the middle of it And you know our regulations include If it does become developed, you know, you do need the you know the layout would need to include those connections So, you know, I think we just didn't want them to feel like You know, while it's a farm it needed to have this infrastructure run through it since you know, there is reasonable connections all the way around it You know under existing conditions Any other questions is a member in the audience who wants to say something Is that my I couldn't tell who it was. You're very mass and cover it up Okay, I Just wanted to make a comment that the art form is a is a working And they're already quite pussy about where you may go. They don't want people Around there are events that are very specific about where you may go Thank you. All right, so I would entertain a motion Megan I moved to warrant a public hearing on proposed amendments to the official map number om dash 21 dash 0 to and That number 0 m dash 21 dash 0 to Monday October 4th at 7 30 p.m Any further discussion all in favor signify by saying aye I Okay, so we will go back to item 8 Can we do that update I mean Bread and butter farms here Great is going to be joining in the same way that Jessica was just joining and he's also I think maybe on the video so we're just kind of Making up technology solutions on the fly Okay, well, thank you. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you, Jessica So we will move on to back to item 8, which is the project update on the Eau Claire multi-parcel conservation initiative and Paul you're going to start it or Yes, let me just break on the phone here Oh Your lifeline This is Paul Connor. You're about to join the city council meeting. All right. Oh And Britt is there by video Yeah, all right, so You're a little bit crackly there And you need to turn off the audio on your computer entirely all right So, thank you everybody That's very crackly bright. Is there anything you can do? Try again. Yeah, it is better. He just needs to have his mouth closer Yes, that is. Thank you. Thank you. All right Paul Connor dress for planning and zoning with the city of South Burlington here for an update about the large and significant conservation efforts on the three Eau Claire parcels on joined night by Corey Pierce and Brandon glass of bread and butterfarm and also Brit Hazelton who is taking over as the project lead from the Vermont land trust and so they've got some excellent and exciting updates on everything that has happened in the last Eight or ten months since you've heard from this project as well as sort of a a next steps in terms of the natural resource conservation service Work, so Britt, can I hand it over to you at this point? Yeah, absolutely. Can can everybody hear me? Okay? Yes A little odd for me, but hopefully you can hear me And do you want me to have you share this? Would you like to build a show your screen or do you want me to just bring up the files that? For now, why don't you bring up the just that contact? Okay, I'll be referring to that as we go through All right, go ahead Okay, so thank you everyone for having us out Brandon bless and Corey Pierce are there in person you there as well So I'm the public hopefully everyone got a chance to see that one correction I had a minor type of in there came before the council was in December 2020 Not three months from now in Great hybrid. So what's presented here is is missing one piece that I think is important to include you went through the history of the City disbursement so six hundred and ten thousand was dispersed and then at the three hundred and ten thousand the second Disbursement from the open space fund. There was a heavy discussion and part of that motion was doing to preserve some city rights for possible or at least in the easement including exceptions or carve-outs for potential Play space not saying this time not saying ten years from now saying in the future Fifty years from now if a future generation of South Burlingtonians want to put a soccer field in this 13-acre quadrant To get that three hundred and ten thousand dollars dispersed. It was pivotal for Dave Kaufman and I to support that disbursement I remember we went back and forth. I'm not seeing that nor did I hear it in your rundown of this So I see the farm hub and I'm not against that But I'm really hopeful that to be consistent with that disbursement of that second round of money that the easement over that 13 acres also includes carve-outs so that future generations if farming does not thrive in this area and Purpose that space for outdoor recreation usage by the public Is that consistent with what you've heard or do we need to dig up the documentation from that movement? I believe the question may be found on piece on in the vicinity of that exclusion That was the question. I can answer it in part, but if you have something that you'd like to start with So again, when we do have we put an easement on something It's tied together for one of the the nice things about our prayer will be after my involvement in the project he was involved with right, so Let me back up for one second and then I'll answer I think one thing that the grit noted here, but I think it's a critical thing in the last year or so The Posted dirt capital were the When they were the interim owners the objective was of course that they were there as a bridge loan The the working effort was how do we use the city's money and the nrcs money to conserve that 104 plus or minus acres and then the second piece of the puzzle was how does dirt capital Remove themselves for the remaining 13 acres As part of that we did do an analysis as requested by counsel to see What would it take for us? What would the cost be to the city and what could we obtain for? Three acres of land and I think we talked with counsel about it in the winter But I don't recall honestly whether it was an executive session or a public session I'd have to go in my notes and see but And and I'm happy to go into my notes and see what was executive public on it For the moment of right now, I think the key thing that grit is noting is that The way that dirt capital is being extricated from this is Vermont land trust is acquiring the 13 acres without any restrictions on it meaning that the all of the possibilities remain on the table for this foreseeable future farm housing possibly recreation possibly additional conservation, so nothing is lost In this interim we don't we're not There's now a non-profit dedicated to the long-term Interest the property will be follow Sure, and then I'd like to sure so that's a very important point for me because I really hope Brit and future documentation and presentation that these cities interests on these 30 at 13 acres So that any easements that are conveyed by VLT make clear that it could still be used for public recreation space Because of the severity and perpetuity or the perpetual nature of these easements I only approved that 310,000 additional monies for this because the motion included a protection of the city's interests in this land Possibly be using for future public needs So that's an important piece that I'm really going to look for because otherwise the city contributed $915,000 for a couple of paths and I want to see that some city interests for possible Easements or use for this land is protected in the language that's going to be coming forward But I'm just one lonely little counselor In terms of the long-term protection of these parcels and promoting the viability of farm-related businesses Really feel T in our in-term role as owner of this piece And in our kind of long-term role as a member of the the entity that will be the long-term owner here Really committed to you know working with the city working with bread and butter To figure out the future of that portion of the property You know Crankets a little bit uncertain in terms of what the level of farm-related infrastructure will be there You know the number of units I don't think it's going to be a large number of units related to housing But I'm going to work again working. Thank you him. I have a question, Britt. So in the original $606,000, you know that and with the work that your capital did one of the caviets was that that there would be a Number of lots that would be able to be sold at market rate for development. Is that all in the 13 acres part of the farm hub? No, no, I'm just trying to figure out because they're mean dirt capital was looking to make a good Can you hear me, Britt? I have to toggle back and forth between you doing a bread my computer in the phone, so it's a little difficult Yes, I think we read I think we have the technology solved in the meeting here so I'm going to hang up this phone call and You should be able to participate as you normally would on a zoom call. Okay. Well, we'll find out I have a battery just managed to avoid your question Can we hear you Can you So it was my understanding that in the first $606,000 the city committed to this that dirt capital was going to try to make a small return on their investment by keeping the options open for You know a few parcels to be sold at market rate for development And I just want to know where where is that? That's that's not part of that this scenario. So again the dirt capital is exiting this project In January, that's what we're planning on when when BLT acquires all of dirt's remaining holdings here There's nothing that they're retaining to sell. We're not planning to sell lots It's all going to be owned by BLT leased to bread and butter and eventually part of this nonprofit entity And there's no plan to do, you know for profit sales of lots here so counselor that the The hope and aspiration was that there would not be a need to do those four or five lots and instead To be able to if possible find some way towards affordability and especially farm housing affordability And that's been a big chunk of what Cori and Brandon and Britt had been working on is to have the Excluded area those 13 area acres serve the farm purposes service counselor Chittin who was speaking about possibly if we can figure it out recreational areas and The farm housing portion of it instead of just selling off lots to make up a financial gap Is the farm hub then exempt from any For profit sales of property or housing at all No, not no, but it'll be under that top of the DLT and then that nonprofit entities ownership so There may be lots conveyed out of there, but the The objective of that will be you know to convey them to farm workers people associated with the farm And we're actively working with bread and butter and other partners to figure out how that will work and how to To develop housing there for farm workers that's affordable and that's a very challenging challenging undertaking we're working on that and the the beauty of this scenario is that We have more options available to us in terms of pursuing different types of a You know affordable. I'm going to use that in quotes. It's a hard thing to define Housing there related to the farm then if we were to conserve the whole thing We wouldn't be able to pursue some of those housing models So we also wouldn't be able to separate off a piece for the city in the future So it's possible that there could be a small co-housing development there that would that would support the farm and maybe some other non-farm individuals would be renting or Something like that. That's yeah, that is possible. And I think you know, that's where we Cory and Brandon we're going to kind of step in to speak to I think Their vision for the property including this exclusion. So maybe we could have Cory and okay Brendan share that is your question on this housing. No, it's about part away Okay, why don't you ask that? It's not really a whole question, but Who's responsible for the For designing and for paying for the future public trails on parcel. Is that the LT or is that the Design of them. We have been working Collaboratively between our Wreck and Parks Department and the folks of bread and butter We have had some conceptual discussions about how they would be created maintained but at this point the focus has been at this point the focus has been on At this point the focus has been on the where because from a farming perspective Identifying what is to be part of the farm and what could be a future trail has been a key piece the how and Is has been a piece to be determined as we go forward? But there's a shared commitment to doing so Cory, why don't you share what you have been working on? Yeah, the red the green light should be on if it's not push But yeah push the push button. Yeah, so we can certainly get into some of these nitty-gritty questions I I would love to just take a quick step back and this is a project that as you heard started in 2017, so It's a long-term project Some of you were there in 2017. Some of you weren't so it's a You know, I'd say from the time that I got to The Leduc farm bread and butter farm, which is 12 years ago now. We saw that land the off their farm kind of dwindling out of Out of being a working farm and always daydreams like how do we Like could we see this? He can serve could we see this continue to stay in agriculture and and serve serve this the city And we never thought it was possible It's challenging enough to make our 143 acres at the home farm viable For so many reasons, but we're working hard to do that and to build a true community farm any of you who've been to a bread and butter farm I Think understand how absolutely committed we are to bringing Public to our farm and engaging with people of all ages and all backgrounds in every way we possibly can and In 2017 when we saw it go up for sale and we You know just thought gosh is this even possible to consider how we would do this and we came to the council and Presented our vision at I think it was close to midnight One night and you all very quickly approved that first six hundred five thousand dollars. It was just like a Incredible catalyst for this huge and unprecedented project to take flight and I think and break can maybe Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's at least one of if not the largest farmland agricultural conservation project in the state of Vermont to date and Super complex one of our biggest challenges as a as a business and I'd say a constellation of business and the vision is to Have not just bread and butter farm, but multiple businesses like we currently do but even more in the future Providing jobs and a resource to the South Burlington community our biggest challenge is housing and housing the staff as we've grown from just two of us working on the farm full-time to Now over 40 employees a year in some capacity Some full-time and all the way down to some part-time in the ball ages so providing jobs for teenagers that are really meaningful and all the adults and families we currently have five families who are Committed to being here and none of which have permanent secure housing including myself So anyway, I what I want to the main point I'd like to share is like expressing incredible gratitude to the city council for being open to this unprecedented project and to say now five years in or for whatever years in How exciting it is that what we set out to do that many years ago is is really here We have a long way to go But the really the I'd say the really challenging parts are are there And it feels like we can see the finish line now and all the updates that we've given in the last few years We were there's still so many unknowns and so many challenges and to know that dirt capital is going to be out of this project within You know less than six months is incredible Know the BLT is coming on in the way they are and have been this whole time But the role that they're going to be playing at that point is incredible and to know that We like if we look at that map and see that low corner that will be cider mill to and that's nestled right up against where Where that area is going to be that we're talking about and know that that is literally I think of that like currently the home farm of Butter is somewhat landlocked or somewhat isolated because of cheese factory road not having any walking paths And no access to all of the city's trails to know that that corner is literally what's going to unlock Access and I will say a few trails is I what I've heard is over 17 miles of trails That is an incredible resource and we are super open to all the ways in which we can engage or engage the city that is like squarely in our passion to educate folks on How to regenerate soil and take care of waterways and quality air and nutritious and healthy food and engage people so I'm super thrilled about it, and we are super grateful and think I would just like to comment just a sort of a little background Just to reinforce our understanding of the role that dirt capital played and they really allowed us the time To figure this out to look for other partners additional Money to make this dream come true So while they did always talk about if we can't find someone to take this over You know, we're not in this to just lose money that we might have to sell Lots at market rate, but that that is not their mission their mission is to help give time to Sort of creative plans like this to get people lined up because it's Really complex and there still are you know lots of issues to be resolved But having them sort of bought out Is a huge one So now it's a question of You know, what is that 13 acres look like how does? bread and butter Expand their operation bring in other partners to make it all a viable agricultural business and Also, I think interestingly figure out where these 17 miles of trails that that I think is significant in terms of a payback to this community For the money that we've invested in this I think the recent Weather events To me make it even more clear that we can't just rely on the Midwest and California For all of the food that we have grown accustomed to and so entities like this are Really critical for our community in Vermont. It's not just a well, that's a nice thing That would be cute to be able to go to a farm and see how chickens make eggs and You know how cows make milk and You know how you can make land more productive, but it to me it's really crucial to The sustainability of our community our state in our country So I just want to say from the outset bread and butter you are an excellent partner I just love having you in the community I know the entire community loves bread and butter farms burger nights and everything else my line of questioning from the first time We considered this in 2016 and the second time and and tonight is always about protecting the city's interests So I that's where I my vantage point on this seat is so I remember the 2016 vote It wasn't all of us it was it was a split vote and then the the second disbursement there again was a split vote and that second Disbursement I I only conditionally voted for it in the conversation was just to protect that city interest So if this council wants a unanimous vote for supporting whatever this is going to look like in January I just really want to look Paul in the eye and and have him confirm to me after I read the documents that there are Protections in these easements that will allow for future generations if it's BLT that owns that 13 acres or whoever else that a Paz recreation pass maybe even paved Okay, could be put there should that be necessary or at least the soccer field on those 13 acres That was the condition on the Dave Kaufman and I voting yes on that second disbursement that we wanted to protect The city's possible future uses for that land not that the city would own it be simple I heard the complexities there what would the discussion was was to include in any conservation easements the ability for that space to be Used converted somehow available to the public for recreational purposes So that's what I'm going to be looking for in January if the council wants a unanimous vote on this That's what I'm going to really need to see and I'm not seeing it in the presentation or the documentation tonight Because as great as better bread and butter butter farms is just like the la duke farm We don't we don't know how long you're gonna be there You could be there 20 years 40 years a hundred years or or not And so what I'm looking to do is just protect the city's interests in these easements these very serious easements that are gonna come Into place permanently restricting what can be done on that land to have us get something for the $915,000 to disperse that's all where I'm coming from my understanding is that that land will always be working farmland That was the agreement and it's into perpetuity. So I I just wanted to clarify that with you Tom I don't think 13 acres. There was a condition. Yeah disbursement. So I'm not saying that condition The honor in the discussion tonight, or at least what has been presented honored the wrong words I don't see it reflected in the materials or in the presentation. I think you've addressed it Can we learn more about the Brandon have Thank you that the that the federal conservation easement through the NRCS Would apply to the 104 acres the 13 acres Instead of it being in the hands of dirt capital will now be in the hands of montland trust to work with the partners to figure out The best purpose for it Up until this point with dirt capital as an excellent bridge loan partner They were also very much interested in eventually getting out from under that and so that was an area of uncertainty for all of us Vermont land trust They are a longer-term player in all of this and so I think Britt and and the folks of bread and butter farm would really like to you know circle up and Consider what counselors were expressing this evening on that 13 acres But the key here is that the 104 would be locked up and conserved along with The overwhelming majority of parcel A and C which is a tremendous win for the community Matt the question ball. Thank you The 13 acres I don't my multicolored zoning map. Is that our four? It is all in the southeast quadrant neighborhood residential, which is essentially an R4. Yes, so I mean can you put 52 units on that? by regulation yes But that's not been anybody's here and there's there's other complexities in terms of water and sewer So mathematically yes, but in practice, I don't think that's been anywhere near what anybody's been Exploring or looking at for both philosophical reasons and infrastructure issues Yeah, and maybe I can just say that you know VLT would not if that was the destiny or the vision for the 13 acres We would not be stepping in to an interim owner and position there And then that future role is being part of the non-profit entity. They'll be the long-term owner If it was going to be a larger scale development like that, we just we we wouldn't be entering the chain of travel We were doing this to help our excellent partner, you know dirt capital exit it You know, they've been absolutely crucial I appreciate the comments and support of them because none of this would have happened without them But basically this will give us Flexibility in terms of thinking about the farm related development the infrastructure and The city's interests there and we are again committed to being a partner for that And we you know VLT can be held accountable for sure in terms of what happens there, but you know from what I've Heard from Brandon and Cory over the the last number of months is you know in any kind of immediate time frame You know, maybe three to nine houses Max we also have house rights and locations on other parcels And then some types, you know some types of farm related infrastructure buildings But not a not a larger scale residential development. Okay Last question or thought. Yeah, I wanted to know more about the plans to have this housing be affordable I do recall the nine homes being the number and you had said that there are various scenarios for Arriving at affordability for them. Is that is that appropriate for us to hear something about that tonight? Or is that still? Not ready for a prime time here. Yeah, I think it's this is Brandon. I would say Not ready in terms of not fully fleshed out because some of that has to do with the commons So the Ramona Grand Commons taking ownership of all of the lands is going to be a key component in creating affordability at the base layer We on partial C. We have three house sites on partial a which is a hundred ninety two acres We have one house site. We developed those both as a new Housing model called a condo housing easement, but basically we're allowed to own the house right under Effectively a ground lease without owning any of the land. So we created a blanket 192 acre conservation easement on partial a and we have one Condo easement house right sort of floating as a layer above that by doing that We were actually able to bring the market value down from at the time of the appraisal was like a hundred and twenty thousand dollars down to 30,000 just to buy the the site and so that alone was a huge chunk And then now we're looking at actually innovating new septic systems and design that would bring that from $40,000 down to 10,000. So we've been working really hard on being very conscious effective and thoughtful about the actual execution of the project while simultaneously we've we've done a Affordability study with CHT Champlain Housing Trust to look at how do we create affordability covenants on the land? That would actually be able to bring in either additional grant funds to buy down additional original purchase value And or looking at established infrastructure like the insider mail to this case a lot of the question for the 13 acre affordability As you can tell I just highlighted kind of partial a and c a lot of the questions for the for the 13 acre affordability has to do with So I had a mail to Infrastructure when it comes in and what it may or may not be able to support on the 13 acres because if we can't access town services Affordability becomes a lot more. I just told you $40,000 for a septic system It does not cost that much to attach to city town Our town services so and you know a well site, etc It really adds up and it's really that CHT looked at this and said come back to us when you have town services Because they said, you know under the our framework of what we define as affordability and how we work with numbers You can't do it on a private system Which I get and so we've been listening to that and waiting for that simultaneously We're developing and innovating in ways that we think is also best for us Other things that we're looking at are multi units to share costs that way and then also different partners on the building side to Bring in some cost sharing on financing and then bring in some cost sharing to really do Really small smaller scale is what we're looking at development So like a house that you know, maybe a thousand square feet and calling that good for a family of four And looking at other ways to do it that way And that's all that's all kind of really exciting to us like we're we're work We're actively working on it right now and making it happen So we don't feel haunted by it as much as we just know it's gonna take time and there's still some sort of pieces and players that we need Just a follow-up question so you would lease the land from the Vermont from the VLT and There would be home ownership with Yep Yep, so in those condo housing easements, that's how it's structured versus a traditional FLH or farm labor house site Actually, you have to own that's what Corey has on the Shelburne property And you have to own the entirety of the parcel in order to build that house site But everything is conserved and subject to something called an option to purchase the ag value which reduces the value of that house Immediately so you build say a $400,000 home It's immediately appraised the day it's billed at $200,000 because it's subject to opav which means you can't get financing You could figure out how to build an affordable home But you can't get financing to build an affordable home the condo housing easement is designed to sort of break that thing apart The 13 acres presents much more traditional financing options That would be really make it so that we You know they don't have Because I supported the initial outlayment of the $606,000 for this project in Partnership with dirt capital and butterfarm because it was a long-term investment In the whole Shelburne pond Greater area puzzle piece of lands that need to be preserved in either working farm or in natural condition Right in a wild condition, which is what we've been talking about here for a few months related to climate change, right? So I you know, I think this is an excellent transition that's going to occur with BLT and I look forward to seeing Okay, thank you very much Obviously you have two full-time jobs one running the farm and then the other is how the in the world Do you figure this out? But at least you have some really good partners and Brett and other people to help try to answer address all those issues So, thank you. Thank you Paul. Thank you time. Keep them on track as well Thank you Did she say she wanted to speak Sandy do you need to make a comment or wish to Or not because we're running a little Behind schedule. All right, well, there'll be plenty of time to talk about the affordable housing because it hasn't been designed yet So why don't we move on then thank you all To item 10 receive an update from public works on the city's Emerald ash borer plans and provide direction to staff. So Justin before you commence, I just want to Thank you for I don't know how many years of service a lot. How many well 12 years. That's that's the All through high school, that's your you know undergraduate So we appreciate all that you've done we certainly Think we will I'm very happy that you are going to provide the same kind of transition for a new leadership Because I think I appreciate that All right, so emerald ash borer. Yeah, good evening Someone will tell me if I need to move the mic, I'll just trust in the process. You need to move the mic As I said Good evening Justin rabbit who director of public works At a recent council meeting it may have been the last one or two meetings ago The issue of the city's emerald ash borer management plan was raised and staff was asked to return this evening to do I and at least in my mind to perhaps three things one is to Update you on what we've done and what we plan on doing to we were asked to investigate Specifically what is occurring in the city of Montpelier and three there was a discussion about of perhaps access of others other groups to City lands and to have a voice in this I'll speak to the first two in the city manager. I will address the third comment. I Don't want to reiterate a lot that's in the cover memo other than to say we've removed a hundred plus of our almost 800 astries in South Burlington and We've also replaced Almost the same amount So as you recall our pledge is to in normal times Be able to remove an ashtray grind its stump and replant In a some in a similar location all within a year's time frame And that's how the budget is put together and has been presented and approved by council for three budget cycles now Obviously This project was one of the quote discretionary general fund projects that was Expenses were halted during COVID. So we're a little behind where we have been we would have planned but the good news is we had initially budgeted at about fifteen hundred dollars a tree and For this entire effort for a total of about 1.2 million and we've been spending somewhere between nine hundred and a thousand dollars And we've also been able to do some of this work with our own crews for example in the village at Dorset Park We did our team didn't the majority at no out of no out of pocket cost of the shree removal within that specific location so so that's what we've been doing and Why we want to keep doing it is well quite simply 20 years ago This was a thing in one county in the country In a slowly spread and eventually made its way to Vermont or three years ago. It was in one little pocket of Vermont There's all sorts of great interactive time elapsed maps. I could have Provide you links to but it's pretty much. I we believe it's pretty much established fact that this beetle is spreading The state of Vermont's one of their actual slogans is not stop the spread. It's slow the spread Because they understand that there is no stopping the spread the heat map now has a Kind of a magenta e orange, but not quite yet the bright red circle than Chittenden County And this is from the Vermont invasive website. So the Beatles here It is going to attack damage Kill our trees once a tree is infected within three to five years. It is for all practical practical purposes dead So that's why we have been doing what we're doing To the question of what is my pill you're doing I'm proud to report and I provide you with the highlighted sections From their management plan We're doing the same thing we are And I confirmed that over phone today with their director of parks and tree warden They have a couple of minor exceptions They have some trees within within the downtown center some ash trees that have some Significance in terms of just their size and presentation and the overall fuel they lend so they're going to try to treat those 15 trees with some with some Chemicals in hopes that over a 10-year period, which is their management plan that those trees remain healthy and remain bountiful Their management plan also includes a condition in case that doesn't happen because there's there's not certainty with this treatment They also like we do Owned hundreds of acres of forested lands as well as hundreds of acres of recreation and park fields Just like us. We're not going into Red rocks or underwood or any of these areas And mitigating any ash trees or any other tree frankly in those forested lands. So our plan and montpelliers are very similar if We and we have 600 and something left if we tried to preserve our trees through this chemical treatment We'd be spending roughly $50,000 a year in perpetuity You you have to treat them probably every other year if you're lucky if not every year so 50 rises But either way 50,000 is a pretty big number when it never ends there there's also a question in talking with the city arborists of Who's going to do this work? you know, this this is kind of new and we're a little unsure of It's one thing to find someone to treat 15 trees, but to treat 300 and something trees So we're leaving a little unsure if the labor market is out there to do it. So Based on all the information we have previously come to believe to be facts and A little bit more of digging around and talking to montpellier and presenting to you on what in fact they actually are doing staff recommends that we continue the course and resume this year cip project as and staff would also In the FY FY 23 budget man It bites you early these budget years. I just had to create a new folder in my Outlook email for FY 23 budget And we'll bring forward another project assuming that an affirmative vote this evening Looking for the continuation of this effort in FY 23 And it will probably take us a handful of years to to rid the city And and also replant, you know, this isn't a deforestation um It's unfortunate and for full disclosure in my front yard in the community. I live in My tree has been replanted So I have a new tree in front of my front door and the one right next to it has a has a flag around it means coming down this fall So, um, I know that I know what this is firsthand. It's happening literally on my own front door So that's what staff has to offer Thank you Out of yes, and this is about chief steven's comment the other night, you know And to restate a few things that justin has said, you know, our focus really as is montpelliers is on Those street trees and limiting liability as trees get sick and ensuring that we're ahead of the replanting schedule We are not touching trees as jesson said in our conserved areas in our parks. Um, and what I heard chief steven say was his priority was really Figuring out how we most equitably provide access to the original inhabitants of our community to those resources So as we talked about at the last meeting with the wheeler easement and thinking about how we build that access Into that easement over the time. We intend to do that with other parcels as well with Our indigent stations and hope that that meets that goal that he articulated at your Comments or questions Do we have any bait trees like they do in montpellier? Excuse me bait trees. I was reading the montpellier documents and they have bait trees in order to attract the emerald ash core. So they're We do not there is in china. They're they have developed For forested areas They have engineered um A bee or a hornet Thank you. Be hornet wasp. Um, that can be be released in certain areas to help Actually get out the larvae that that infect the trees That type of treatment is generally used in forest Just given the density of it From everything everything we've researched. That's not an applicable treatment for a street tree In in the wood in montpellier. They're chopping it up and giving it to low-income Montpellier residents for they're they they're making it available We often when we're when we're conducting this or other exercises We often get phone or remount on power because they do a lot of kind of trimming and we'll we get the calls because people just Assume it's us We do get a lot of calls from people that are driving by or there are some kind of habitual folks that call every year And what we do is if someone calls and asks us for it. We'll either set it aside We'll bring it back to the shop Our normal course of action is just to chip things And reuse those wood chips in the city's land system elsewhere But in the event that someone does ask Uh, the wood cannot be shipped out of county So it has to be again In terms of slowing the spread has to be used for fire with within the county which it was harvested But we would certainly welcome that opportunity Okay, other questions that's on this Tim and then Megan so Do we have any evidence that the bore is in any of the trees that have been cut down yet? No So why why don't we just wait on cutting the trees start keep planting trees And then cut the trees when we feel like They've become infected to some degree and it's it's I mean even if they're not dead Then it's probably ready to start taking them down In while the tree is still healthy Why would we want to cut it down now when we could replant We could start planting extra trees now and just take the trees down later when it appears that they're starting to Efolio and that's my question They again, it's quick once they're infected and They become more they become more expensive because they're they're They're less stable. They're less solid of a tree once they're infected And if if we had any sense that there was any that it was not going to happen We certainly would not be proposing a public expenditure of high six or low seven figures um This is what the this is how the industry Is responding to this disease so we're not and we're not behind the eight ball like we would with the elms and Sure, if I guess if the guidance if the pleasure of the community is to wait and have our team spend our time driving around and looking at trees and That would not certainly be my recommendation. Um, it's going to be more expensive tomorrow than it is today. Um, so These expenses are certainties You are not going to not have to spend this money So I would say The present value of the dollar is cheaper and the liability is much less if we're proactive like again Like government is being to this issue. This isn't this isn't south berlington's unique response to this problem These are best management practices that have been established by the state and have been duplicated elsewhere throughout the country So our recommendation is based in that as well as our profound belief that Yeah, we could wait two or three years and then we can find one and then we can just start it off again and we'll just Pay more than because it's going to cost more like everything else So whatever the pleasure of the council is May Yeah, I was struck by the comment of chief stevens too that this is a sacred tree for them and I Would like to explore if it's you know, something that would be of interest to our community to choose either 15 trees, let's just say a grove that we would And to the end of the lifespan of those trees or If there would be a way to to preserve Seeds or something In honor of of that If it's a thousand dollars per year for 15 trees and we're spending six figures to seven figures To take down treasonry plant I guess if the pleasure of the communities to try to preserve a dozen trees. We have six hundred something remaining. I'm sure we can find A nominal number that could that could suit this public education purpose Would that be along the street you think? I I don't know where they go They're all street trees. They are located They're all street trees I mean, they're all street trees and I'm sure you might have some in your backyards and we could send our Team into some of our conserved lands that we own and try to identify them if we're talking about the true definition of the word grove Again, how because that was that was a discussion too that was had is using these these lands opening them up for You know the natives to be able to go in and do what they normally You know do and it could be a religious ceremony. It could be some kind of ceremonial And if there is a site Let's just say in wheeler or in the woods behind the hubbard Natural area or in red rock. I mean, I don't know Is that something I think we're not touching those trees. We're only talking about street trees, right? But would it be of interest for us to preserve those trees? We're I think we are well, but Unless they get they get that Ed and then and then they're not protected, right? So it's Finding a location where those trees would be meaningful But I think Yes, I think if that's the request of the council then let's let's Give staff time to work with chief Stevens and put together an additional funding request for fy 23 that enables us to protect that sacred Which is separate from For maintenance Yeah, and and chief Menard too. I believe that his His group is specifically They're their area of habitation was South Burlington. Um, so he might also be someone to contact and Something to consider So I'm persuaded by your liability argument and the statement that 99 of the astros are predicted to be dead in the next 8 to 10 years Could it be said that as the councilor Barrett's point that part of your targeting and identification process looks at the Location of the tree and doing the ones that might pose more of a threat to neighboring private property residences or public property and so on So in a way, you are targeting trees that have more exposure or potential costs for the city in your phased process Over the next 8 to 10 years that is also spreading out the cost of taking these trees down Since I'm assuming your point which I think you made is that if they all get the emerald ash borer in the same year It's going to be impossible to find the labor to drop them all before they start causing more Issues. I'm sorry for the convoluted question The way we approach it today is not based on tree health because right now we're relatively sure they have Roughly equivalent health What we are doing is we are doing a few from this location and a few from that location. We're not showing up I'm endorsing farms and taking and deforesting the entire neighborhood And credit to our arborist and his team. They're being very thoughtful of 15 trees in this neighborhood 15 trees in that name, you know, so you So it's a little more gradual and hopefully over time again This is a could be an eight-year effort over time the new trees are putting in can and I understand A two inch caliper tree is not a 12 inch tree But over time as we eventually finish in each neighborhood There'll be enough diversity in both species and size That when the final ash tree is removed it won't be as stark as they're all so that's how we're doing it We're systematically trying to diversify species and locations throughout the city So as not to overly overburden the first place we show up to and take all the trees Okay, other any other comments on by the council No, but we Just a point of clarification. We voted last Time we were together to pause you're looking for a motion or discussion about whether or not to continue. I assume here Yes Leave a comment from the audience Is there anyone on um At home on tv you want to speak My name is rosa and greck. I'm a resident of south swan john the one that brought this to you and um I spoke with uh john palosik today who was one of the three authors of the mont pilier plan And what he told me and I read the mont pilier plan, which is in your packet Is not what we are doing And I won't go into all the details, but this is the fundamental difference between what mont pilier is doing And what south droneton is doing and by the way Um Many municipalities are changing their approach. There's something sort of what tim said They are not cutting down healthy trees. What mont pilier is doing is they are treating the trees In order to buy time For due for for a number of reasons Buying time they're they're planting right now two for one for every ash tree that they anticipate They may have to take down in the future, but it will give them more time in if they have to take the ash tree down What they're finding know now is that not all ash trees are dying What chief steven said to us is Don't do the job of the emerald ash borer by cutting down the trees You're doing that's what he said you're doing the job of the emerald ash borer by cutting down the ash trees Other municipalities and john was telling me other municipalities in in vermont are also reassessing The preemptive cutting down all the healthy trees There are now biological Ways that they are researching Um to it getting predators to attack the emerald ash borer the one that um, just was mentioning it's called Um a parasitic wasp And they're also woodpeckers So what paulia is hoping is that in the time they are using to treat the trees There may be a biological or another solution that comes along the way That will allow them not to cut everything down The other thing they're doing is trapping what matt was sort of saying they're having fake trees And they have sticky things on the trees to attract the borrowers To a grove of trees and they're trying this in other parts of the country And so the the emerald ash borer goes to those and bypasses the other trees So they're using the least healthy trees as trap trees To save the more healthy trees The other thing that he told me which I had never thought about he said When they looked at the number of trees in mount period is like 450 ash trees And then they looked at the number of tree ash trees that are on private property It was 10 times the amount that were in the city and they're also not doing their forests or their conserved areas They're just looking at the street trees like we are If they take down all Of the street trees then the emerald ash borer will go to private properties trees And then the taxpayer will have to fund it out of their own pocket When if their trees get infected to take their ash trees down So what paulia said is The taxpayer is going to pay twice the taxpayer is going to pay the city to take down the city trees And then the borer without a doubt is going to go to the other trees because all the street trees the city trees are down Gone so the individual is going to absorb even more costs When it goes to their trees, so they're talking about establishing a fund perhaps to help individuals who have Ash trees on their private land I'm just telling you read the mount paulia report. You'll see That they are treating their trees now As a pre-emptive method to buy time so they don't cut down healthy trees They're also finding that some ash trees are surviving But if you cut down all your ash trees Then you're never going to know what ash trees could have made it because there's a belief that the healthier You don't want to cut down the female trees. I didn't realize there are male and female trees But there are some trees that are very robust and healthy those are the ones you don't want to cut down So use your trap trees to get the least healthy trees I'm just saying if you look at the mount paulia report that's in your packet You'll see that this is what they're doing and that's what john told me he told me a whole bunch of other stuff, but pre-emptively cutting all the trees down is is um We're gonna you lose all the trees this way you're guaranteed You're gonna lose all your trees because you're cutting them all down if you don't cut them all down You might not lose all your trees. So I know it's long winded, but there's a lot in that report And my conversation with john today provided a lot more detail Um, and they're doing they're not doing what we're doing in mount paulia Okay, um, just they're treating 15 trees. They're not treating any number greater than 15 Which is exactly what I told you they were doing They're trying to trap in forest Which we have said we have no forest management plan yet On the street trees make no mistake They're doing the same thing we are in fact they're ahead of us because green mountain power has been a partner with them And some of their utility right away So miss greco's correct. They're treating trees. They're treating 15 It's in the plan is what I told you it's what the park director told me today But don't conflate they're treating trees what they're treating 450 They're treating the 15. They've told you they're treating they're treating the 15. I've told you they're treating Well, I'm given I've given you all the facts tonight and I've given you them 100 accurate I'm persuaded by staff's recommendation So I'm ready to continue with the very responsible plan and I appreciate you giving this presentation But that's where I am on this Let's not forget We are replacing trees If the emerald ash borer comes and wipes out not only our street trees But our trees and are very in our in our nature areas We may not have the money to replace them We're thoughtfully planning out in a strategic way Let's continue that work. I would make a motion that we continue the remediation program Okay, we have a motion that's been made in seconded further conversation. I would just like us to think about finding appropriate Area of freeze that we could sensitively You know and proactively I understand all of the arguments here I just think it's just a little bit premature to be cutting them down when they're healthy So for that reason I'm going to vote nay But you know the motion will pass. That's fine. I just People ask me questions. Why are they cutting on healthy trees? And I go It's part of the plan, but I can't explain to them why they're cutting on healthy trees If the tree was slightly unhealthy, you could say it's gonna die and be dead in two to three years You've got a reason to I mean I had a maple tree on Meadow Road that I thought was going to be dead in four years And then it came back again and and it's still there I mean I was told you know, it's one of these Norway maples and they have this virus and blah blah blah And a couple years had reduced leaves and then it came back and had it was fine But it's still there. So You know nature can find a way we might get eaten to death by this borer But I just um, I just think it's it's just premature. That's all I agree with planting But I think we should delay cutting down for a while I really want to find a plan that we can agree upon where we protect a certain number of them And I'm not sure that saying we won't do anything We'll make sure that at least a certain number of them will be protected Um, can I ask you how difficult Is it to identify a tree that is Obviously being eaten alive by the ash borer and one that is really healthy The there's there's pictures that are very easy to identify from kind of year one to Whatever the last year of that tree's life year ten and it's it's It's visible both in the defoliation of the tree and then but then upon closer closer examination You can see the damage has been done to the bark But certainly to councillor emory's point We can have staff and we have two certified arborist not that You know, we have two certified arborist that could that could easily identify groves, you know to use your word Probably a variety of them throughout city on lands And perhaps when staff returns for the 23 budget presentation That can be part of the emerald ash borer project discussion Well, you know, I know in the medical world they triage To take care of the most needy of care And I'm just wondering as you you know wander down whatever the street is That is full of the ash trees And you if it's not real difficult to triage Then I would think that makes sense to tim's point that you continue to have all the Positive things about a tree You know carbon sequestration and all sorts of things shade Pooling whatever Um, and then you wait until it appears that it's um Starting to fail and then you cut it down. So you have I sort of heard in his response that they're doing that you're attempting to do that by not clear cutting an entire street You're doing one or two letting us putting a new one in and then phasing it in over multiple years If not a whole decade, so I sort of hear that they're doing what you're describing councilor really I thought I heard that that's time consuming and do we really want Them to drive around the community and say oh, there's one that's We're not we're not prioritizing our removals by health because again, we believe they're all roughly equivalent health today, um, however If at some point in time, you know just triage isn't really the right word. It's more diagnosis if they're triage If they're diagnosed and infected You know, we move from a reasonable plan that has us dealing with 50 to 100 trees a year To suddenly perhaps being behind the eight ball And having to react really quickly to a larger number of trees and relying on relying on a contractor community that That will realistically probably be trying to help mnuski equal chester willistan sx burlington, etc do the same um and Things might happen they might they might engineer they were China might engineer a loss that saves all of our problems and it's used in Forest to the to the extent that there becomes A better solution for our street trees It would be incumbent upon us To continue to be on top of the subject and every year during the budget season bring forward those solutions I think that's sensible. I think we can review this, you know, this isn't you're not doing it all in the next Six weeks, we only we only have about 60 trees that are currently under contract And that would be that's the that's it. That's that's it until um The next And i'm sorry, I don't remember it. Is there a cost to the sticky trap? that a thousand bucks The pesticide was for 15 trees a thousand bucks We can look into Preservation methods within two thousand dollars for four-year use We can look into preservation methods within the forested areas I think because that could be useful to know when they're in the area When who's in the area the emerald ash or And if they have they have I believe it's 10 lures If I'm remembering correctly for four-year use two thousand dollars So that's 200 dollars each for four years It would just be good. I think You know with regard to planning with regard to hopefully a goal of preserving the sum And hopefully they'll be able to come back. I mean that's the goal of preserving is that they'd be able to come back And that seems to be within the whole scope of the project 200 dollars per lure It's reasonable for me So you're suggesting council member you could put that in the 2023 budget. Yeah, I would agree with that Yes, well, well, you've already spoken. So I think um, Michael had his hand up The comment is very quick and it follows up on what councilor barrett said We need to buy time if we can Technology is moving very fast You've probably all read that mrna technology that's being used to develop the viruses for covid Will have massive agricultural applications in the in dealing with tests That can't be dealt with In other ways or shouldn't be dealt with with parasites Uh, it's it's complicated. It's a matter of identifying the protein that the mr and i mrna can Attack but it's coming and we should try to buy time and not kill To treat Okay, yes, so if I can Yeah, try to summarize We have a motion on the table to continue this year's Uh segment of the plan that you had previously approved in the cip So if you would like if you choose to do that tonight On at your next meeting as you know, you'll be you'll have your fy 23 budget goal setting conversation And you could move those two recommendations forward to that conversation both Working having staff work with the chiefs on a preservation plan and financing to support that as well as Potentially preservation methods for forested areas Those would be two separate goals within the effort including the lures the sticky New this year and the budget next year Okay, are we ready for that vote Stickies to find out if it's here. Yeah So why would you cut down healthy trees now and then put stickies out in a year or two to find out if it's here That's like the cart before the horse. I mean put the stickies out And see if they're here, but And then if they are then you then you go forward That's what mob pillion's doing to see if they're the mob pillion has it They know the amber on last board is there because they put the stickies out and they also have trapped trees But we don't even know if it's here yet. So but you're cutting down hundreds of healthy trees In anticipates is coming. Let's find out if they're here yet before you do that And it takes two to five years before the tree will die You can really see when they do they start from the top You can see the the dead branches. So it's very obvious when the when the bore is on the tree It's not subtle My understanding is we wouldn't be cutting down hundreds of trees This year it would it's a hundred trees per year over six years We also heard from Justin that we are competing for the same time and equipment Of of the I mean they're purchasing equipment goes in this is part of their plan And just I'm sure you've seen it right you have a bucket truck you have Chipper stump grinder you have a contract with a sawmill operator I mean they're including that all in their budget So they're doing it They are doing it goes in and they're taking down 10 of their trees per year And sounds like we have the same plan That's I mean I I understand believe me. I love the trees I've been nursing the maple tree in my backyard since I moved in 20 years ago And I was told it was dead when I arrived I understand I'm I love I love the trees And so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to hear the the pressure is being put upon us and and I'm trying to at the same time think about how we can have Ash trees in the future I'm trying to find a balance between those things, but believe me my heart is with the trees believe me Are we ready for the vote? Yes So I believe the motion is to continue with our plan with the understanding That we will revisit this as we look to the FY 23 budget development to potentially support the Determining if they're here I'm going to say 15 trees doing some sticky Whatever they are the latest tech technique to Deal with the effort Is that correct is that the direction you need? Yeah, I think the the motion was specifically to restart the the program I think the the recommendation which I think we had support was generally speaking was to include those other items in the budget discussions which will take place at the next council meeting So that's not in the motion, but certainly It can be I mean, it's I don't think it's I think I think we'd all agree is that those discussions can take place You needed the motion Jesse or you're good No, we have a motion So all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye All opposed. Nay. Nay. So the motion passes three to two Okay, moving on to street parking. I think this is easier Justin Good evening Staff was for an email. I believe from Madam chair, it's nine or five. Does anybody I was on a roll time I'm just questioning whether it's whether we should have a break or not or we can help Justin go first or Is this going to take long? We only Okay, why don't we do this and then have a break and let our note taker stretch your fingers Good evening. We're here tonight to discuss Parking on Peterson terrace. We were forwarded an email. I believe it originated with councillor emory I had subsequently myself The police chief the director of planning and zoning and the city manager have met a couple times To discuss just in general, how do we respond to these types of requests? What have we done in the past? What are the existing conditions, etc, etc since That email Both the police chief and myself have made frequent drives through the area And I I there might have been one occurrence when there was more than one car parked on the street But in general, there's zero or one cars that are parked along Peterson Terrace which in and of itself isn't a street that really lends itself to on street parking. It's kind of narrow And the land use I don't think there's a lot of rentals So there's not the need for kind of overflow parking. Um, those were our observations Certainly realize that overflow airport parking is a very Airport in general as well as overflow airport parking is a sensitive issue um after we completed the the parking In 2015 that was described in here on elizabeth and patrick One of the outcomes of that effort was the airport beefed up It's signage package to alert folks that there is a cell phone lot But I think even if you knocked on everyone's window who was sitting You know on those streets and you told them it was two blocks away They would colorfully tell you the don't mind your own business so The airport's doing what they can We've been through a couple recent efforts that have just talked about how to deal with when adjacent parking kind of spills in the neighborhoods As mentioned one was over by the airport on elizabeth and patrick And the other one was a little more recent Over on brookwood drive as a result of that the new office building and residential apartments at brookwood and dorset Both of those discussions were very Intented intentful on being kind of thoughtful discussions and not just Go to the next meeting and propose a propose a parking regulation. Have it changed We didn't want to chase problems down the block or around the corner around the street Um, and we also we we also had to do a fair amount of time letting people know that If there's no parking sign in front of your house that you want that means no parking So birthday parties 4th of july is that means you can't park there? Um, because we our parking regulations do not discriminate between users presently They they could in the future if we have a resident parking model. We don't So a lot of that discussion a lot of that kind of like acceptance Particularly on elizabeth and patrick because that's when I was more heavily involved in um If you notice if you happen to look on the map there, you're like well, that's kind of the Such a mismatch of parking stuff. Well, yeah, it was because that's what it took to get them all to agree Eventually it was just they didn't want parking at night or overnight Any point of the year? so the point of all that being um Our recommendation is to continue to monitor the situation Not just on peterson, but also on barber and lin the cf staff feels that Intervention and regulations are necessary right now based on what we've been observing And even the anecdotal in the email was one or two cars a week I'm not sure if we want to regulate away one or two cars a week if that is in fact What is happening the other cases were a little more severe, but we propose to monitor it um, and as well as at the council's discretion Um, try to come up with instead of just dealing with these every three years as they pop up as one offs You look around see what other communities are doing be at resident parking Um, obviously there's a whole host of things that go hand in hand with resident parking But you know tonight, that's our recommend. It's not really an action item, but that's kind of a recommendation Based on both our past experiences, but also what we're seeing over on peterson today Okay, common We well just a new guy question Did we discussed and then and then decided not to pursue a residents only Assignage um in some of our neighborhoods that have that challenge whether it's This neighborhood we're talking about or brookwood or anywhere else where We find that residents lose their spots on the street to Whether it's airports or competing businesses I'm not sure if council are trying to answer otherwise. I'll answer my comment question is similar to that Okay, I would say it has come up and I think I support the staff's recommendation But I think we as a council need to recognize that this is going to keep coming up more frequently We are the second largest city in this great state and the largest city has resident only parking I think it makes sense for us to consider it I know that there are administrative burdens that are related to that But I anticipate on the next five to ten year horizon that this is going to make sense I would just add I I'm not against resident only parking on the next two years But I would want it to be applicable to other parts of the city exactly as councilor coda mentioned brookwood And sherry being of particular interest So I like what you're supporting which is continuing to monitor it and I want to address these concerns I as one councilor think we need to look very closely at what resident only parking What that would look like the process and the administrative burdens in the coming couple of years Yeah, I think when we discussed it the last time Our then city managers suggested that the cost and the Enforcement would be hefty So but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it or review it again and see if we can I think given Given the timeline that councilor just mentioned We could raise the fines in order to pay for the signs I think you'll find that we might start growing ourselves particularly within city center Into the need to create parking turnover there in having an actual traffic control parking group Which is the infrastructure you need at its core For residential program So the demand is going to materialize elsewhere and perhaps for different reasons But that might allow for a more logical creation of managing Parking whether it's resident only or metered parking On on market streets. Well, let's include that in our future priorities You know, it's something to discuss and and I agree with you as as city center gets built out There's more and more people who want to go there some of the Neighborhood surrounding that may find some More more cars parking on their streets much to their Different include that in the conversations in the future. Yeah, but the concern that came to me I just want to reiterate it is that There can be aggressive people who park on these streets and when residents approach them and and you know, this is my lawn That they can sometimes get a very unpleasant reaction and that that I find to be concerning You know that there are cars that actually park on someone's lawn. They're gone for who knows how long And that there is no enforcement in place and even if it's one car And I understand we have to we have to think about it, but I just I find that to be a story that You know, I don't want to be deprecated sure I would agree That could deal with that specific type of use What are those is that the homeowner was not able to Get any kind of enforcement? Well, we don't have them in place, but that could be part of the conversation Okay, but not so not in place Right, I believe we have the ordinance in place to enforce that what we don't have in place is a dedicated traffic unit within our police department to do that enforcement because we are running so thin on the on the on the Public safety side We don't have those officers who are dedicated that kind of traffic enforcement So they can respond if there's no other call going on at the time But if there's any other call going on at the time and two or three of our officers are at that call They can't immediately go and address that So to me this is a perfect conversation for our policy priorities process to say What do we want to start exploring and building out over the next You know year to two to three years It will come with added staff and added human resource infrastructure The support enforcement. Does that look like a pd team? Does that look like a traffic and parking team? Does that look like citywide resident only targeted resident? I mean there are I mean worked in lots of cities with Resident parking. There are many ways to do it It's how we want to best bring forward to you all those recommendations. All right At least in the winter they'd be code Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, that's the good news Um, why don't we take a five minute break so Pardon me. Yes You'll have till january, but you can do it now I have to say that, um, of all the places I've lived Justin is by far The best director of public works that I've ever met He's always on the ball. He always has the facts and figures at his fingertips. He's always accessible and uh and polite and And solutions oriented. He's done a fantastic job for the city and he's gonna be sorely missed And this is just just not from me. It's from all my neighbors Who had heard about it now? Thank you, just Okay, so we'll just take a very quick break. Thank you. We'll take up item 12 Which is a continued discussion on the south brollington land trust request for a short term Tax increase to be used by the city for the future preservation of open space It actually isn't a discussion about a specific tax proposal but rather To provide have a discussion and to provide the city manager and our legal counsel some, um Ideas about The concept of sending a letter to all of the 25 identified owners of the Properties identified by the open space committee that was part of iz That throughout the city wasn't just the southeast quadrant But all of those properties that that were identified as large enough and having Significant natural resources on their property A letter that we would request Finding out their interests in meeting with the city to explore the possibility of their interests Having their land purchase or working with other entities that may allow them to Take a portion of their parcel and preserve it as identified by the open space committee To get kind of a baseline because we keep talking about is it four cents for four years? Is it Two cents for ten years. Is it just a half a penny a penny? Maybe nothing, but we really don't know since we don't own any of those properties what the possible outlay Might be so this would be a letter Finding out if anyone was interested in chatting with us short term Long term or absolutely not. We're just not interested That isn't something we've thought about and want to pursue The responses to the letter I think should be kept confidential But it could allow us to have a sense of what are the Parameters of money that might be needed to Discuss with property owners their interest in selling or even gifting land to the city or preserving it some other way So that's what I would like to propose and If there's other kind of aspects of that letter Or that outreach that council members want to include on that I think it's an exploratory letter And I think it needs to come from the city because we would be the entity that um Initially we would work with if possible you could team up with the Vermont land trust or Nature Conservancy or some other organization certainly to partner or the South Rhine can lend us for that matter So that's a question I put out there and I think that will help us Focus on what it is we may want to do in terms of generating additional funds into what purpose and not just to collect the money and see See what what how we can spend it I like the idea. I think it's it's important for us to See that this is our responsibility as a city if we wish to conserve land that we have to purchase it it makes perfect sense to to take that step and to reach out to potential partners in that conservation process to let them know that this is something that the city would seriously consider and inviting them to Investigate future possibilities in a serious discussion So I like the direction you're going in and to try to size up how much we might need to raise to put some more Hard numbers any additional asks before the voters I guess for me to feel comfortable with a letter I'd want to see it Just I want to see the draft letter before it goes out to landowners If you're looking for a my vote or my my blessing And for councilor emory's point I agree with you that if we truly want to oh steer the future of the entire parcel the city needs to own it But we do have other tools that the planning commission is working on and it's going to be issuing shortly environmental protection requirements Which will adjust the portions of these parcels and their environmental aspects that we will see for shepherding and Stewarding through appropriate land regulation. So for me to sign off on this I need to see the letter I think that Given the work of the open space committee the next logical step The next logical step is If you've identified the parcels you should take an action to initiate a dialogue with the parcel owners to gauge their Um interest in in some sort of conservation Whatever or whether there isn't any interest in it, and I think it makes makes a lot of sense I think the the we should review the the letter content before it goes out. It should be confidential on its return Um, I think it'll generate some very interesting dialogue between the city and Some of the landowners I'm sure that there are some people out there that that probably are leading toward conservation, but they probably Would like to see some value enumeration and you know this And it all it is is just an invitation to have a discussion with The city about your property and about how we regard your property And it would start the interesting dialogue any other comments? Yeah, just mechanics how do You say keep confidential the letters with the return to This is a letter from in my mind. This is a letter from the city manager on our behalf to reach out to those 25 property owners and find out if they have any interest in exploring with the city Conservation of their property. No, I understand. I support the idea, but responses would go back to Jesse We would not then have a press release and say oh 10 people and these are the people who want to sit down and chat with us I think we would need depending this direction from council. We would need to craft the legal authority under which we could keep those Outside of public record. It would likely be not a lawyer, but likely be something under the under the auspices of potential real estate negotiation for the future So I would likely want to include that citation in the letter that goes out assuming We can draft something bring it back see if there's a legal ability for us to do that If the legal structure is there, we would read the letters in executive session Because you'd have to authorize me and the attorney entrance negotiations at some short or medium or long term I don't I actually don't even know if The letter has to be discussed in executive section because we will not be looking at the response I mean our our position mad is is the 25 people that have been identified in that report Their names Are in the report the owners of those properties. So that's not confidential information What needs to be confidential in my mind is Anyone who responds back and says Yeah, I'd love to sit down with you I I don't want that. I don't think that should be public information because it wouldn't allow a negotiation or a You know a thoughtful conversation about Potentially purchasing property that could be done in executive So my I guess my question and this is I guess I would agree I think there's I think this is there's a value of sending out this letter and getting this information back collecting information I'd want to see the letter because I think I think probably My question is are we going to ask if they want to sell the whole parcel Or are we likely to get a response back that says sure I'll sell you the part that the planning commission just said you can't develop But I want to keep the property next to the existing infrastructure the sewer the water So we could develop it. So let's make a deal. I mean, is that any other question we're asking? Do are you interested in selling all of it? None of it? or part of it That's all I want to see the letter the framing of it because I don't necessarily want to buy portions of the property that we're already protecting through epr And I don't necessarily want to say we definitely want to buy your property at whatever price you want to say But I want to see the wording and an idea of how this goes forward Yeah, and it doesn't make it so that If they say I'll only send sell all of the property that the city has to say. Oh, okay We can say no, right. We have this amount of money. This is what we want to preserve and they can say yes or no It's it's that Conversation or what are the possibilities? And there might be a great opportunity there where a landowner says sure I'll reduce the size of my project But I will build where we have existing infrastructure affordable housing workforce housing moderate priced housing And we will make sure that this area of the city goes to the This area of my parcel goes to the city and it's preserved in perpetuity because it is a valuable piece of property from a perspective riparian corridors and wetlands That's a possibility. I mean we'll see what happens really with I think the ldr's from the plan I mean, we don't need to want to necessarily undercut that so I think we want to Support that in a way potentially that makes The public feel whole So I don't know what the outcome is that you won't know unless you ask and you sit down and have some conversations about What are the opportunities? in what People comment from the public Oh and one online I am a resident Wow From the agenda, I came prepared to talk about some other things in this so I think it's A little bit unfair to the public to put this on as a rather different thing from the agenda Not having had time to think things through In detail or anything my first instinct on this is it would be a bad idea You'd be setting up Expectations of people when you do not yet know what the city as a whole the public wants to do these are be raising any You don't the vote the vote. I won't happen in so much I suspect that Like I said raise that expectation I think you should uh hold off on this photo for until you know what to see as a whole wants to Give you money to spend on this I I appreciate your comments. I think the point of this was to give us A little more information as well as the public that they're already saying that this is going to be information That's going to be fabricated that the public well, but we would know that the you would know the public Well, let me finish the sentence. Okay If five people let's say came back and said yes, we would be interested we could look at those five properties and potentially be able to say well, it looks like The most we could ever spend on this project is Six million dollars that's what that would buy all those properties. So then we would know That that I could see where you would know what you wanted to ask for Yes, I still think it's something that's done to do that And you know the information will from somewhere get out in the world whether it's the property owners talking or whatever but I don't think this is going to be a go to be came with Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you. We maybe want to ask property owners to be Keep their response confidential too You know, that's another There's someone on Chris Tromblay and sandy duly have both put comments in the chat I don't think either of you are here at the beginning of the meeting. We are not Using chat anymore only to indicate that you would like to speak and be heard in open So everyone can hear you and you can participate in the debate. So chris or sandy if you would like to Unvideo and unmute and share with us your comments. That would be great So, I'm sorry I was just it sounds like such a cool idea to reach out about the Their interest in conservation. I was only hoping to possibly use the letter as a dual purpose If they do intend to develop, you know, might they be interested in parting on a affordable housing Portion of that property that's out of scope. That's fine Just it sounds like a really good opportunity to reach out and understand their intention and build a good dialogue going forward. Thanks Well, that's a good point and it potentially that's could be part of the conversation with whomever comes forward I mean, I think we'd want to understand what What they want to sell their land for and what they want to use the rest of it for before we committed to Okay, sandy duly. Do you want to speak or did chris say we well, I guess I'm concerned about the I understand your intent to support The regulations but the regulations have not been adopted and fully fleshed out There will be Of course in in Articles 10 and 12 and the related changes Like an expansion of the lands that are protected plus the Conservation Pug is intended to provide an incentive for people to conserve their lands on their own, which would Remove the requirement or the need for the city to purchase them. So I guess I just see these conversations as having a potential unintended effect of of sort of confusing the process of the The and being competitive to The land development regulations that are not yet adopted Roseanne Roseanne Greco South Brunelinton Uh, I think it's a great idea All you're asking is if I understand it correctly is to reach out to the Owners of the parcels which have already been identified as the prime ones you want to preserve And ask if they're interested in talking to the city, right? I mean talking Either selling or conserving or Not, I mean, I don't see any Any downside in having a conversation With people at least you get a better idea where they're thinking on their lands and You'll know it's sort of like the car before the horse. I mean what comes first does the money come first And then you have money and then you know, they got, you know, the landowners know you got money Or do you find out from the landowners how much money you need and then you And then maybe do a valid item or Tom says there's plenty of money in the city. You can borrow from yourself You might not even need that, you know But it's on the face of it. It sounds like a A good way to get information that the city will have to make further decisions. So thank you Yeah, yeah, just yeah in response to Miss Bailey too. I mean that was the The request on the part of a couple of counselors at least that they needed to have more information before they put a dollar amount on the ballot And that makes that makes perfect sense, right? So to be able to have a notion about how much to ask and You know Not necessarily raised expectations This is simply this is simply surveying interests and I I see that as a As a as a useful as a useful tool and as you know regards competition I don't see it as competition that planning commission is very clear That they cannot regulate full conservation of any parcel So if these parcels have the sensitive natural resources on it that we do wish to conserve in Total It's it's not competition. It's simply saying this is the city You know putting its money where its mouth is and I see that as a very responsible act And it's something that the planning commission itself has has raised as the only way to to conserve a parcel so I don't see it as competition I see it as a tool and it's a tool that the city has it has in its power and and we're simply I think planning In a way that Some of the counselors on this board Had expressed as as a need to have figures before we go to the public and and ask for for money so I see that as I see what you're proposing Helen to be You know responsive to to what members of this council have expressed Tom so I think we have some direction that we can move forward on this I just want to make clear that I don't necessarily want to acquire all 25 of these parcels as one counselor I just want to understand. I think I'm open to understanding since they were identified and we've already had relationships with them What they're thinking and that's why I want to see the language of this But I don't want to communicate that the entire council and that's the majority and wants to have the language that way That we want all 25 in the entirety of these 25 parcels to be entirely conserved in perpetuity I don't want that. I don't think that's the right thing for south burlington And so I don't want the letter to inadvertently convey that but if I'm in the minority in that position That's why I just want to see the language. So I'm ready to conserve some of them I think if it makes sense But when I say conserve I want the city to own it so that we can also use it for a soccer field I want soccer fields for south burlington So I want to be strategic in understanding what we might be purchasing so that I can go to the voters in unison In unanimous support and asking for a certain amount of money to fund those acquisitions Okay, um sarah Yeah, well, it might give us that information and that's all I'm asking. I cannot imagine Knowing who the owners are of some of the property that all 25 would say, yeah Count me in That just won't happen Sarah Sarah dopp I wasn't going to say anything. I thought you were doing fine with the conversation and the audience Comments work were good But when I hear soccer fields on the 25 parcels that were identified for Conservation of the environment That doesn't work for me. So I just had to stand up and say this isn't about recreation land this time We've we've already agreed among ourselves Some of us more than others that some of the current conservation fund can be used for recreational purposes not all But what what the land trust was proposing was money for environmental conservation Just wanted to be clear on that Okay, so the direction you need. Okay. Thank you All right item 13 is this submitting Um nominations for the small town america civic volunteer award. I brought this up last time um, I put a um Call into them to find out if you can make a a nomination posthumously and they said yes So I would um like to um Begin the process of nominating for this award Jennifer cokeman. I think she has done an incredible amount. What's going to be challenging for me is to limit or figure out exactly how many of the Areas that she's been involved in We should highlight But um, I'll work on that and it and we actually can do a second one each community can nominate two So if anyone has thought about another person um I guess Um You can you know who can we can submit to but I feel very strongly that this is A way that I think would be really nice to honor Jennifer No, I don't think so. I mean, it's just I you know it asks who's going to be the nominator um, I could I suppose say the whole Um sea council if that's what you would propose Put my name down. Hello. Okay, and um, it asks some You know if the government head I think supports it as well So I will work on this it isn't due till um October 15th So I have a little bit of time to Think about it But great. If that seems Amenable, I would great. Thank you. And would we submit some things to you or ideas or how you'll inform us How you'd like us to yeah, I mean it's for your efforts. I'm going to look at some of the I mean, there's only one Thing about please describe how the nominees service has significantly impacted your locality And explain why their contra contributions are considered above and beyond That's the only real thing that is a substance So they have some examples online. I will look at them and see how much People and what they kind of said and then we'll I'll I'll probably ask for some feedback Okay, great. Thank you um so item 14 Discussion and approval for the fy 23 budget schedule So martha's going to talk about that and justy So I'm going to table set just for a moment and then martha is really the one Folks haven't met martha matured before martha is our brilliant finance Um, she's the one who has built this budget. There are two things I wanted to highlight from a Vision perspective and then we'll turn over to martha for the details I am um, so tonight. We're asking you to approve the fy 23 schedule at the next meeting. We'll come back and have the goals conversation um, so the two changes i'm recommending with this Schedule are to integrate the cip discussions into the general fund all fund budget conversations I feel like one of the things I've Observed is that conversation between investment capital and maintenance has has been disconnected and I would like to join those two conversations Um, and then I also recommend having three nights of budget presentations as they're outlined here This process I think will allow you to have the best comprehensive picture of city finances city priorities, especially coming out of the policy priorities conversation Um, so martha can walk you through the specific schedule that is outlined Get really close to the mic Hi, i'm a char finance officer city of south bollington uh the Budget schedule this year is a little different as stated by the city manager In the past we have presented cip capital improvement projects separately from the general budget, but this year we are trying a new System introduced by the new city manager and we hope that it will work well And we will prepare the cip separately but presented together with the general Budget at the same time and instead of doing the whole budget the same night. We have separated out as indicated by the city manager and we will have the admins general administrations nights and customer creations We will also have the public safety public services and community development projects that would be presented during the three night city council meeting regular city council meeting and in addition to those we'll just have one night of public hearing where the city council will approve the Both cip and general budget All right, i'm here to answer any question if you have um, I have a question um In in terms of sort of dividing them up in these three sections is that sort of about equal dollars Is that why you did some of it or? Is it more that you think? You know, they're more connected. I don't know it's It's it's not exactly equal dollars, but it is equal areas And I really we bundled these together because of their connection So general government will do a high level overview of the budget with Culture and recreation public safety police and fire obviously those connections are intertwined And then public services infrastructure connected with the other community development projects. I think it's an important Okay, and um, martha recommended bringing in like the energy projects to those To all of them to the the third night with the community Oh, I see. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay I think it makes sense Do you need a motion? I'll move that we approve the fiscal year 23 budget schedule All any more discussion all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye Thank you Thank you All right, so item 15 approve a voting delegate for the vermont league of cities in town town fair So I believe you all have done this before town fair Is september 29th? We haven't done this No, you haven't but it's a Town fair is this year september 29th Is the main day of all of the annual meetings of the league and then the following week is a virtual town fair event Where you can sign up for different or you can attend different virtual seminars You all are welcome to attend register and attend for any and all of it. We have training money in the budget to do that What this item is really about is that each community in vermont all communities currently are members of dlct Have a voting member at the annual meeting on the 29th And so you as the as the elected body need to delegate who that Voting member is I will be in attendance. So I'm happy to do it. I've done it in past years But if one of you would like to do it, I also am happy not to do it. I will Yeah, yes, I think you ought to do it. Yeah, it's a very Very Remember you were told you could never vote to yourself I Delegate jesse baker as our voting delegate for the veal and I'd like to give her permission to vote for her I would encourage her I give her permission and encourage her to vote for herself. So that's a motion I will second that motion Helen. Okay, any further discussion or advice? Okay Okay Um item 16 a pointing a pointing collin k mcneal esquire It's the city attorney Kev. What is it? Kerry? Kerrigan. Well, that is another irish name, huh? You're a hundred percent there Yeah, that's great irish Yeah, I'll stay Yes, please do. I'm sorry So i'm very excited To have collin here with us tonight for your consideration For appointment to city attorney effective september 13th You and the community have a memo in front of you about this recommendation We did a very thorough search. We had a number of candidates. We interviewed six first round three second round And it was Unanimous that collin was our top choice I think many of you know collin as our outside council over a number of years He's also served many other municipalities and school districts over the last 13 years that he's been With mcneal eddie and shean and what really stood out for me in recommending collin was not only his municipal law expertise and familiarity with vermont but his strong core of Ethics and service and I think self-berlington will be very well served Request that you appoint Collin came to feel as far as city attorney for the city of south berlington effective september Second any discussion All in favor signify by saying, uh, would you want to say anything? Yeah Maybe I should let you say something. Give it short. Very sure. Yeah, I just appreciate your consideration Thank you. I would look very much forward to being your next city attorney. Thank you Well, I think you will be It's very tense vote. Do we need to do a roll call on this? Okay All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye Any opposed no, so, um Five zero welcome. Thank you so much. You know what you're getting into Yeah Item 17 reports from counselors on committee assignment And chair there's no other business on the agenda tonight So if there are no reports from committee assignments, I just have one tiny item Well paul is here Okay, are there any, uh, committee assignment reports? I don't have one. Okay Oh Good Great Okay, thank you Tim so, um, if you didn't know like a week ago sunday, I was hacking and slashing the bike path near on wheeler So I cut a nice Shape of all the overhanging trees and stuff I happened to be on my bike coming back from a bca appointment And I got whacked in the head so I cut it and I just kept cutting and I kept cutting and I kept going to cut it All the way up the fulsham farm road Do you carry those things? No, I had a pair of slippers in my hand. I even have a blister But the point is is that I got next to paul heels old house and his face is outside on the wall He's the one that owned the yellow house that's completely covered in wisteria now And a couple came by and we were talking about it. They were like, well, who owns this house or who owns it now What's the future of it? You know, does the city have any ordinances against abandoned houses and we went through this several years ago So the question is I mean, can we talk at a future date about that property? It's not that it's a blight on the city because actually it's overgrown now and you really can't see it anymore But it it creates a bigger question is to Why hasn't the landowner you'd have decided to demolish the building resell the property because Obviously with the five homes that have been built across in the golf course recently that land is desirable So it should not Return to fallow You know and it's got a crumbling foundation of a barn behind it because if you go down to fulsham farm circle behind it You can see the whole the rest of the of the decay going on And some kids are going to walk in there. Well, they could Paul is deceased. So I don't know. He's been dead for 10 years So I don't know if his estate is in some kind of litigation. I mean, he was unmarried. He didn't have children I mean, maybe he had siblings that I don't know. I mean, I knew him, but not that well This reminds me of the kmart shopping plaza and when it was just a blight and rotting into the ground Kevin we charged him. He just kept asking the owners what's going on with this because it's a nice story There was concerns about water leaking in so I share the safety concerns and if the city manager can do something It's it's a blight. It's I don't think it looks nice and All the windows are not boarded up And I thought we talked about a regulation where you have to board the windows up and I don't know where that went But maybe Paul is something to offer on that in a future meeting Do something before it burns down or you know, we have Well, it's too much to prove Someone's been paying property taxes, obviously Okay, thank you. All right Item 18 consider entering executive session for two purposes Oh three. Sorry. That's right discussing the washburn conditional use approval Myers court appeal to which the city is a party and we need to receive confidential attorney client communications regarding the same B discussing the Burton corporation higher ground application under act 250 review Again to which the city is the party and receive confidential attorney client communications regarding the same and finally to Discuss the personnel issue So I move that we go into premature that premature general and public knowledge of the following We put the city a substantial disadvantage because the city council risks disclosing negotiation strategy of these items Are discussed in public for the three items that you just mentioned Who would be joining us? Don't we have to identify that? Yeah, that's second. Okay. All in favor. Hi So I now move that we enter into executive session discuss the aforementioned topics under title one section 313 a1cd and 313 a3 Other mon statues inviting city council external city council Okay, that was a motion second all in favor And we will not be coming we've not Making any decision so we will not be coming back into session