 loud. All right, this is a Rex check and call on Wednesday, April 14, 2021. In any normal year, everybody would be working on their taxes last minute, because tomorrow would normally be tax day, but hey, all bets are off. All deadlines have shifted. The world is different. Oh, but you still got to pay the IRS. That's true. You still got to pay the IRS. That's true. The IRS doesn't seem to mind pandemics and stuff like that. So I would like to read, if you will bear with me, a poem called catalog of unabashed gratitude by Ross Day. And it goes like this. Friends, will you bear with me today for I have awakened from a dream in which a robin made with its shabby wings a kind of veil behind which it shimmied and stomped something from the south of Spain, its breast aflare looking me dead in the eye from the branch that grew into my window, kuchikuing my chin, the bird shuffling its little talons left then right while the leaves bristled against the plaster wall, two of them drifting onto my blanket while the bird opened and closed its wings like a matador giving up on murder, jutting its beak turning a circle and flashing again, the ruddy bombast of its breast by which I knew upon waking it was telling me in no uncertain terms to bellow forth the tubas and sousaphones, the whole rusty brass band of gratitude, not quite dormant in my belly, it said so in a human voice, bellow forth and who among us could ignore such odd and precise counsel. Here ye, here ye, I am here to holler that I have hauled tons by which I don't mean lots, I mean tons of cow shit and stood ankle deep in swales of maggots swirling the spent beer grains the brewery man was good enough to dump off holding his nose for they smell very bad but make the compost drive giddy and lick its lips twirling dung with my pitchfork again and again with hundreds and hundreds of other people we dreamt and orchard this way furrowing our brows and hauling our wheelbarrows and sweating through our shirts and two years later there was a party at which trees were sunk into the well-fed earth one of which a liberty apple after being watered in was tamped by a baby barefoot with a bow hanging in her hair biting her lip in her joyous work and friends this is the realest place I know it makes me squirm like a worm I am so grateful you could ride your bike there or roller skate or catch the bus there is a fence and a gate twisted by hand there is a fig tree taller than you in Indiana it will make you gasp it might make you want to stay alive even thank you and thank you for not taking my pal when the engine of his mind dragged him into to swig fistfuls of xanax and a bottle or two of booze and thank you for taking my father a few years after his own father went down thank you mercy mercy thank you for not smoking meth with your mother oh thank you thank you for leaving and for coming back and thank you for what inside my friends love bursts like a thaw throng of roadside goldenrod fleaming into the world likely hauling a shovel with her like one named airily ought with hands big as a horses and who like one named airily ought will laugh time to time till the juice runs from her nose oh thank you for the way a small thing's whale makes the milk or what once was milk in us gather into horses puckle buckling across a field and thank you friends when last spring the highest in bells rang and the crocuses flaunted their upturned skirts and the quiet roved the beehive which when I entered were snug two or three dead fist-sized clutches of bees between the frames almost clinging to one another this one's tiny head pushed into another's tiny wing one's four legs resting on another's face the translucent paper of their wings fluttering beneath my breath and when a few dropped to the frames beneath honey and after falling down to cry everything's glacial shine and thank you too and thanks for the corduroy pouch I have put you on put your feet up here's a light blanket pillow dear one for I can feel this is going to be long I can't stop my gratitude which includes dear reader you for staying here with me for moving your lips just so as I speak here is a cup of tea I have spooned honey into it and thank you the tiny bees shadow perusing these words as I write them and the way my love talks quietly went in the hive so quietly in fact you cannot hear her but only notice barely her lips moving in conversation thank you what does not scare her in me but makes her reach my way thank you the love she is which hurts sometimes and the time she misremembered elephants in one of my poems which oh here they come garlanded with morning glory and wisteria blooms trombones all the way down to the river thank you the quiet in which the river bends around the elephant's solemn trunk polishing stones floating on its gentle back the flock of geese flying overhead and to the quick and gentle flocking of men to the old lady falling down on the corner of fair mount and eighteenth holding patiently with the softest parts of their hands hurricane and purple hat gathering for her the contents of her purse and touching her shoulder and elbow thank you the cockeyed court on which in a half court three by three versus three we old heads made of some runny nose kids the shambles and the 61 year old after flipping a reverse layup off a back door cut from my no-look pass to seal the game ripped off his shirt and threw punches at the gods and hollered at the kids to admire the pacemaker's scar grinning across his chest thank you the glad accordions wheeze in the chest thank you the bagpipes thank you for the to the woman barefoot in a gaudy dress for stopping her car in the middle of the road and the tractor trailer behind her and the van behind it whisking a turtle off the road thank you god of gaudy thank you paisley panties thank you the organ up my dress thank you the sheer dress you wore kneeling in my dream at the cricks edge and the light swimming through it the koi kissing halos into the glassy air the room in my mind with the blinds drawn where we nearly injure each other calling into the shawl of the other's body thank you for saying it plain fuck each other dumb and you again you for the true kindness it has been for you to remain awake with me like this nodding time to time and making that noise which i take to mean yes or i understand or please go on but not too long or why are you spitting so much or easy tiger hands to yourself i am excitable i'm sorry i am grateful i just want us to be friends now forever take this bowl of blackberries from the garden the sun has made them warm i picked them just for you i promise i will try to stay on my side of the couch and thank you for the baggie of dreadlocks i found in a drawer while washing and folding the clothes of our murdered friend a photo in which his arms slung around the sign to the trail of silences thank you the way before he died he held his hands open to us for coming back in a waft of incense or in the shape of a boy in another city looking from between his mother's legs or disappearing into the stacks after brushing by for moseying back in dreams we're seeing us lost and scared he put his hands on our shoulders and pointed us to the temple across town and thank you to the man all night long hosing a mist on his early bloomed peach tree so that the hard frost not waste the crop the ice in his beard and the ghosts lifting from him when the warming sun told him sleep now thank you the ancestor who loved you before she knew you by smuggling seeds into her braid for the long journey who loved you before he knew you by putting a walnut tree in the ground who loved you before she knew you by not slaughtering the land thank you who did not bulldoze the ancient grove of dates and olives who sailed his keys into the ocean and walked softly home who did not fire who did not plunge the head into the toilet who said stop don't do that who lifted some broken someone up volunteered the way a plant birth of the reseeding plant is called a volunteer like the plum tree that marched beside the raised bed in my garden like the arugula that marched itself between the blueberries nary a bayonet nary an army nary a nation which usage of the word volunteer familiar to gardeners the wide world made my pal shout out and dance and plunge his knuckles into the lush soil before gobbling two strawberries and digging a song from his guitar made of wood from a tree someone planted thank you thank you zinnia and gooseberry rudbeckia and paw paw ashmead's kernel coxcomb and scarlet runner fever few and lemon balm thank you knit bone and sweet grass and sun choke and false indigo whose petals stammered apart by bumblebees good lord please give me a minute and moon glow and catkin and crook neck and painted tongue and seed pop and johnny jump up thank you what in us rackets glad what glad rackets us and thank you to this knuckle-headed heart this pelican heart this gap-toothed heart flinging open its gaudy maw to the sky oh clumsy oh bumble fucked oh giddy oh dumbstruck oh rickshaw oh goat twisting its head from at meat from my peach tree's highest branch balanced balanced impossibly gobbling the last fruit its tongue working like an engine a lone sweet drop tumbling by some miracle into my mouth like the smell of someone i've loved heart like an elephant screaming at the bones of its dead heart like the lady on the bus dressed head to toe in gold the sun shivering her shiny boots singing eric abadu to herself leaning her head against the window and thank you the way my father one time came back in a dream by plucking the two cables beneath my chin like a bass bass fiddle string and played me until i woke singing no kidding singing smiling thank you thank you stumbling into the garden where the juneberry's flowers had burst open like the bells of french horns the lily my mother and i planted oozed into the air the bazillion ants labored in their earthen workshops below the colored greens waved in the wind like the sails of ships and the wasps swam in the mint blooms viscous swill and you again for hanging tight dear friend i know i can be long winded sometimes i want so badly to rub the sponge of gratitude over every last thing including you which yes awkward the suds in your ear and armpit the little sparkling gems slipping into your eye soon it will be over which is precisely what the child in my dream said holding my hand pointing at the roiling sea and the sky hurtling our way like so many buffalo who said it's much worse than we think and sooner to whom i said no duh child in my dreams what do you think this singing and shuttering is what this screaming and reaching and dancing and crying is other than loving what every second goes away goodbye i mean to say and thank you every day so i barely barely made it through that when i read it to april like a few weeks back hey susan hi susan you're muted it's all right zoom newbie you know there's a lot of this online technology you should look into should learn how to use it yeah yeah it's really it's really powerful you wouldn't believe the stuff people get up to inside of it even dumb nazis know how to use it yeah well let's catch up since peter's we haven't seen peter a long time peter tell us what's up yeah peter uh i'm still doing my uh my art practice so uh with covid academy the art academy in gent is not closed but it is so restricted that it's not fun anymore and as i have my my studio here i mean i have plenty of other things i can i can experiment with so these days you don't see much behind me but the only thing that is keeping me busy from an artistic point of view is what is on the on the drawing table it's i mean i'm drawing bricks it's a present type of experience i'm preparing a blog on it like zen and the art of drawing bricks nice i thought it was just your white period behind you yeah i mean i have a painting that is completely white on white well malievic is famous white on white yes and black and there is this uh i always forget the name it's in it i think he's italian who is uh highly repetitive work who is um i can find it back so what he's doing he's just writing numbers one two three four and i think he ended up with one million nine hundred thousand and so on and then he died whoa something like so he has 180 paintings like that starting with one and ending with and they're about one meter half on one meter like size so and this was inspired by jata i had a roman or paulka yeah yeah i just google him so i'll put him in the chat wow i never heard about him sorry go ahead peter paulka yeah yeah um so somebody mentioned to me when i was telling the story you have to look at the work of the the wife of i way we and she is called find it back because i put it in the blog that i'm preparing i is uh oh i don't know her wife's wife's name what's what come up in wikipedia yeah she's not very public about it yeah she is uh lou king yeah lou king and one of the works that she made was basically also highly repetitive work but on a long roll of silk paper of 20 meters long 20 meters long one meter wide all little blocks so i have started a roll of paper for about five meters long and one meter wide and it has all small bricks that are drawn by hands um they're about about this big like a centimeter big and they're all drawn in pattern so there are many brick patterns with the pattern that i'm using is the monk pattern they're called runs i believe runs okay yeah when you lay bricks it's called a run and there are many different traditional patterns for brick laying so sometimes you sometimes the brick is facing in and out sometimes they're rippled but i believe they're called runs good we didn't know that thank you and in limington england there is a wall of bricks that is that undulates yeah and people walk by and they run their hands over it yeah so i have started a color are your bricks colored uh not these ones it's a black chinese ink on white paper with a rapido graph pen of 0.7 millimeters it's always the same and i started playing around with this concept also in a 3d software i probably can show it but it's going to divert us too much so i'm in bricks and i'm going to write a lot about it and since december last year i'm officially retired from corporate life and but i'm still doing some freelance work and i'm yeah i'm still doing some freelance work which is usually in um what somebody called i mean i didn't suggest that but they called it what you're doing peter is premium curation so you are you have this skill that you can connect dots that nobody else connects with the invisible dots yeah um that sounded like quite a side or it has to do with so one project i'm on and i cannot say who it is for but they basically want to have a um a thinking experience event something is it because you're not allowed to say the name of god i it is god yeah i'm not allowed to say it um that's tough though like you can't put that on your website no i can't um so that's keeping i'm reading quite a lot i'm still very very deep in the work of am pendleton and john cd brown so thank you for that connection jerry that started like more than a year ago um i don't know did i and i'd love to connect up on that at some point because i began reading their their collective work and found it way too dense i found it i found i found that i should be their audience and i was not the hook was not in my in my in my i was i was not able to get engaged in it the hook is in my mind so and i'm basically reading everything that he has ever written okay so i even she sent me because it's only in paper a vintage book from two thousand nineteen hundred was it eighty four uh-huh that she wrote the road is not a road about the open city uh in chile which was an architectural project so the book the cover looks like this and the book is here at ritoke the city of ritoke chile yeah um it has a lot to do or it's highly related to what kamay kamay heinous uh introduced at the time as bani jamay yes yeah jamay uh but she is really really going very deep in all this so what we did with her and with ham from collective next you may remember that we we got a a commission an assignment by uh by swift for cybos last year to make a basically to make a an online event of 45 minutes call it time capsule or whatever you want to call it's a video production yeah so what they had asked us or what i had suggested them to do and they accepted is we're not going to do it a zoom call a recorded zoom call what we are going to do is what we call pirate tv which is inspired by all trade pirate radio where you bring in new subjects you start mixing stuff that's normally not mixed in that part and it's it's a video production so it was presented as something not the normal thing that you would expect so all these sessions of cybos last year which was 100 digital and also this year there were all just standard zoom calls one person or two persons doing a powerpoint presentation or having a a fire chat conversation and so ours was well very very different so what happened is that our session went live on i think six october last year but we were banned from replay nice work yeah i take it as a batch of honor but and the only explanation that we got was that was inappropriate full stop this is a magic word in america is it yes so wait the hosting organization was who again swift oh okay swift and this was for the cybos conference also amber amber case amber case made us a video for for that that was integrated in there and ham did some uh well in a special way a master of ceremony so i still have the the cut that went live but i'm not allowed to to distribute it wow but what we have agreed ham and amber and and and myself is that we are going to redo it so we should you should actually sell an nft around the video that may that may not be released that's what you could do yeah that's great that would be cool because it's like because it's like behind a legal barrier but there's actually an object there so that's what i'm doing these days it took some time to get back up to speed but to your point it's so densely written so what we are making out of it are uh basically four vignettes she calls them vignettes and she has done some of them for ifts they were in september i think and they're still on the ifts side so but we are making basically condensed versions of the vignettes so the vignettes were like 90 minutes i think or 45 minutes so we are making for each vignette 10 minute chunks which are intended as a teaser but not just a commercial teaser they are interesting in their own right each vignette has a learning in its own right so its value already in its own right and we came up with a matrix that's also what Anne likes in our corporation i can suddenly come up with a presentation that suddenly puts it in a very concise way and so we have come up with a matrix where for each vignette or of each topic we have like four sections one is new ways of seeing the second is new knowledge so it's really introducing definitions of things like what is the definition of a wicked problem what is the definition of a complex adaptive system something like that yeah and then we have a section on what are the new skills you need for that and what are the new tools that exist to help you seeing in different ways so i spent the whole day today in blocking days where i'm going to through the transcripts of existing vignette recordings of 90 minutes and i'm narrowing down each vignette to 1500 words that should be finished by the end of this week and then based on that we are going to redo the recordings of Anne because for Swift there was a they sent a professional team camera team to Los Angeles to Anne's studio there to record her but we can't reuse that material so we are going to redo it she in meantime she moved to San Francisco not like two months ago but she's still in the moving process so we are going to record it there and ham is going to send somebody of his team to do the actual recording and then i'm going to edit the whole thing because because of covid i did have nothing else to do i follow trainings online on logic pro and final cut pro and i'm now a master in final cut pro and logic pro and i make my own soundscapes and that's it Isaac Newton invents the calculus during the plague so but else well there's probably other i mean there's some really interesting books i discovered recently you probably can find them on my block post there is a site column saying Goodreads and there are five books that i'm reading that are listed there so one is the book of why the new science of course an effect by Julia Pearl then there is medium design so it's designing medium media by Keller Eastling the pocket guide to action by Kyle Eschenröder something more fiction well more it's complete fiction Neil Stephenson's anathem anathem yeah and then the power of not thinking and i started the series a block series under the common title traveling without moving and that documents more or less my journey my thinking journey since march last year so meeting and Pendleton and getting into all this material and but obviously it evolves and so i'm adding new things into into the mix so i'm having a lot of fun i still go regularly to uh museum and i've started another series of pirate tv which is called art tribe where i'm the host and i invite a guest artist uh to tell about their work about a show around in their studio what they're doing what's driving them there is a script for that but we don't stick to the scripts so the next one will be Amber case in is in her other identity of clamber where she's doing really awesome video audio and other work and then i'll have my cousin who is a senior art curator at the museum of fine arts in Brussels who is going to tell a story of what you didn't know about the work of a curator in a museum and then there is a filmmaker there's a photographer there is a painter i mean there are people lined up now till august so normally as from end april there will be an episode of partright part pirate tv just on youtube it's not live it's all prerecorded but my intention is to do it some day life but then i have too many uh devices i have to control to do it properly and i mean there are some good life's editing software there but then i'm more with my attention with the software and then shot number one shot number four shot number whatever then and i'm not with the content anymore that's about it i mean per my invite to this call a bunch of slackers like Dave you missed that like Pete's been doing almost nothing you know he's had his thumb and his nose for the whole lockdown and really yeah we'd expect nothing nothing else from that guy right yeah yeah exactly it's it's a small tragedy um Peter thank you that's that's like remarkable and uh and clamber is is is amber posting videos on youtube that way or what where does she post as her artistic identity because i didn't even have that in my brain well she she she likes to be uh sort of underground so her website it's a public website so it's clamber.org it's too easy yeah but she tries not to mix the two identities because she has a very nice assignment she's now working for Mozilla she has a oh good where she's working on wet monetization she just published a blog post medium like two days ago it's part of a series on wet monetization sorry who is that you're talking about amber case uh you want to uh uh bow or peter you want to explain amber i met amber through jerry's retreat it's a very nice anecdote so it was the retreat i think of 2012 i still have the t-shirt and i still wear it well that's good it's the yellow one uh-huh it's yellow with thought with the hand drawn people web yeah yeah yeah yeah and so you you organized or somebody organized like a car sharing to get from san francisco airport to marconi marconi yeah and so she was in the car next to me i i didn't know so we started chatting in the car and we stayed in contact since it's so amber uh and i met amber through bow so we have both a thank for the amber connection thanks Mo so how to describe her i mean um you can do it yeah i mean i get to know her more through a book that she wrote about calm technology uh and she describes herself as somebody who is third generation ai in the sense that her father and her grandfather and so on they were all in so the very early ai research sort of thing showed she was born and lived whole her young life because i think she's only 35 or something like that which seems so young right now yes i mean i can't remember one point that seems so old but no no no no that's youth she she lived i mean she was born and lived in the computer she's almost born as a cyborg with all the pros and cons that she didn't so much choose a career as like grow up in it yeah college herself a cyborg anthropologist you can actually search on youtube you'll see lots of things from her and if you follow my brain my brain link you'll see a lot of stuff and it's not me it's sheldon who introduced her to matter come visit me in san francisco and that's when we became friends oh cool sheldon is pretty much you know her mentor in a way and peter you and sheldon have met right sheldon ran on no i fear that the earth might implode if you did but yeah sheldon's super interesting i mean i mean super interesting there was a brief retreat story i don't know if any of you were there for this one maybe though so at one point i wasn't sure what to do i took everybody out to the little redwood grove at marconi and we sat down and i was like let's do this now let's not do that and then someone novus vivak maybe had said or someone had said let's tell stories about how art has influenced our lives so i'm like let's do that so the first person who stands up is ray louis and ray tells a story about how his parents were both deaf and but he loved the piano except his parents wanted him to play classical piano and and he loved jazz so and i'm barely remembering the story i'm realizing that it's at the edges of memory so one day he's in his room where they got him a piano so he's playing the piano and he plays this jazz piece that he finally conquers like it was hard it was a hard piece to play and then he gets the sense that someone's around and he looks around and his mom is sitting in the corner of the room and she signs to him i love it when you play that and i like mind blown and he told a couple other stories like that and then the second person to stand up is sheldon reynon and sheldon says when i was 17 and i'm making up the numbers here and i'm hopefully backing into the story when i was 17 i was madly in love with a young woman and she died all of a sudden and three days later i got a letter from her in the mail saying i love you forever i want to be with you forever and i had a nervous breakdown and i was institutionalized for a while and then my balm my the way i sort of healed from this was i started obsessively going to movies all around the new york area so long island jersey whatever every movie he was just absorbed and then he he becomes the center of experimental cinema in new york and did kind of the definitive coffee table book about it start the start of the pacific film archive i think in san francisco uh a bunch of other stuff like that and sheldon is a little bit like zeleg like he's been where the action is he's a little bit like steward brand and zeleg it's like when you look at something interesting that happened in history sheldon probably had a hand in it um so super interesting pardon his stories are wonderful yeah yeah he's got stories he's got stories hey i would smoke pot with nico he didn't what the hell he's like no so anyway uh longer stories but uh peter thank you for stimulating all that anybody else want to check in at this point it does it does seem like a hard act to follow doesn't it i made coffee yesterday oh was it good was it like no it wasn't really good but it's caffeinated shit okay oh i started to interrupt uh jammy i'm still on the body thing so you remember i was going to build a number of workshops around that so i'm still on that okay and i almost got the the first one going on the b sorry on the a the anxious part of body with two people scott scott scott scott smith and john wilshire who has done a workshop that's really on there but then they had to to to pass because they got a big client something and but we are going to to have contact again in in april and and then i would like to see again if you're interested to also do a pirate tv oh yeah something to introduce and jamae looks great with a with a with a patch and a parrot jamae works out great yeah and he speaks pirate you know the pirate's favorite letter you think it's our but it's first love be the sea oh that's right that's an old joke yeah hey susan why did you go to lung england and what and now that you're back and you catch us up i went to england because i have a friend there um who can no longer travel and um and he and i sort of taken up a friendship after you know know knowing each other for i don't know 30 years anyway um since i've been back i've been uh letting go of things i've been letting go of uh some of the work i thought i wanted to do and i found i was not interested in it and so i just put aside um and most recently i still have plenty to do by the way but so uh just recently my um you know my Siberians you know that maybe some of you know that i live out in in the woods and uh a lovely home lovely place been here for 37 years and um anyway so my idea for retirement was to rent out my big house and to retire up here to um to the above the garage is where i live and um anyway my Siberians uh two Siberians here for the long term and they recently he got his American citizenship and she got her green card so-called green card i forget what they call it now and this required celebration and i've gotten in the habit of making some outrageous dessert for celebrations even though i don't like making desserts and i'm not a big fan of sugar anyway so for his um for celebrate his citizenship i baked a um i thought what's terribly american i thought a red velvet cake would do three stories high with cream cheese frosting and then i searched the web for ridiculous ridiculous sparkler things which i plastered all over the cake and it was wonderful it was a mix of red white and blue and a little white stars and big white things and all kinds of different shapes and it was wonderful covered the whole cake with this and put sparklers on the top so that was that was the that was the first celebration um the second celebration which was last sunday was um a everybody's been giving us Meyer lemons and so it seemed that it was a good idea to make a lemon meringue pie now i've made a lemon meringue pie for 50 years i think and so i was terrified about the meringue but it came out just fine and it was a wonderful lemon curd and um so we ate the whole thing in one sitting and now i'm faced with a birthday of somebody's and um i haven't figured out what to do as oh the lemon meringue in addition had um you know in japan they sometimes put gold leaf in their whiskey glass and i bought a jar of gold leaf when i was there once and so i sprinkled it onto the meringues which were little peaks with little curls on the top and in between was all this gold leaf it was quite nice so you have to what up yourself now well that's what he said peter said now what are you going to do when she gets her citizenship well you know something will occur to us um something in an american flag pattern maybe well what i was going to do was you can get prints right um of uh you can make you can get frosting printed frosting um of just about anything and you can get it in various different shapes and i had planned to do her green card but peter didn't cooperate and give me a photograph in time so that's always a possibility and the other thing i've been doing is saying goodbye to many of my trees and uh it's very painful because of the drought because of sudden oak death um i had a large tree go down a couple years ago that's been needed to be tablets all the branches taken off which i have i don't know 20 by 20 by seven pile ready for the chipper it breaks my heart the trunk was the trunk was nearly as tall nearly as wide as i am tall i mean i could do like this right standing next to it was oak and when you cut down an old oak like that there is a terrific smell um and i didn't know what the snow was and i thought that must be the wood and of course it is i'd never spelled the oak wood before so fresh so and i'm reading of course i'm reading i'm uh i was reading isabel wilkerson's cast and then i discovered that arondati roy who wrote the god of small things and a number of other other things had written a um where is that no that's like off anyway um she had wrote written an essay on the on uh gondy and that's why i need the book because i need to remember the embed embed car um who was um when they were the indian you know when england was tearing up southeast asia um um she wrote she just recently wrote this piece and got out the old speeches of the two of them arguing for foreign against um the cast of untouchable which makes a nice and i um the author of cat isabel wilkerson did not cite her although maybe she was maybe maybe arondati was writing it at the same time that she was is the book susan is the book title the doctor and the saint yeah uh cast race and the annihilation of cast the debate between be our embed car and new m m mohammedus k gondy yes and it's it's quite stunning um i'm reading it slowly because because this is sort of thing i read slowly but uh super interesting yeah and when you go back and read and read it and you wonder you know gondy becomes as as anyone of any note does becomes less less impressive and um and bed car becomes more impressive in his thinking um yeah i mean i'm quite taken with isabel's argument that cast in class and all of these other things are are um you know of of a kind and uh and how they come to be and my interest in social cohesion goes way back um and uh what makes it and how you maintain it and what's it good for and what's it bad for and all the rest of that stuff so it's just interesting to see to rethink those dynamics i don't have anything insightful to say about it yet thank you for pointing us to it it's really cool i just posted a link to a new yorker article that i think is the reason i know about this book because it mentions a whole bunch of books that are related to the topic of cast and uh and so forth in india and so the the the articles titled gondy for the post-truth age i think it's by pankaj misra um but it points to a whole bunch of books that i put in so the impossible indian gondy and the temptation of violence the south african gondy stretcher bearer of empire the origins of totalitarianism the moral economists tawny polanyi thompson and a critique of capitalism the indian the indian ideology gondy the years that changed the world's bibliography of gondy although those are pointed to in this article i just pasted yeah okay all this stuff is just so damn fascinating it gets even more as you go on yeah yeah and i spent the an hour this morning researching the frank oppression the conclusion of the frank oppression war and the indemnity that france was was forced to pay uh and how that was one of the causes of world war one and and and like like you know war reparations in general like how do they work and who has had to pay them and the worst one ever was uh the the treaty of paris 1815 i think when france was forced to pay 700 million francs which was a whole lot of money back then which was like 20 of gdp and i think it was when they lost i'm now i'm confusing my wars but i think it's when they when they lost to bismarck and bismarck said was was quoted to have said the only way to keep these friends from attacking us again is to keep them too poor to worry about like war hence the hence the the whopping penalty and the french being really proud basically socialized the debt bought up bonds like crazy and paid it off two years early and and that provokes a big industrial boom in france and france's economy suddenly like flourishes like all all the shit never works the way the policy makers wanted to wasn't there a big debt after the Haitian independence it like it saddled the Haitians with huge debt forever that's kind of been blamed for yep yep for the poverty and Haiti and other sorts of stuff agreed and then the famous one is the treaty of Versailles after world war one which saddles germany with debt and then a backstory there that needs fact checking but but basically british foreign policy has always more or less been we don't want there to ever be one big power on the continent because whenever one of the powers gets out of balance and gets really big the next thing they want to do is invade us so they're always playing the powers off against each other and at the end of world war one who's the big power of france because germany is just a total shambles and france is recovering and they penalize and the treaty of Versailles penalizes germany enormously kind of to cripple them too and so any debt payments that germany makes after world war one were financed by the brits the brits basically lent them the money to go pay the french we did too american banks were big time into it yeah yeah so the german reconstruction and the rebuilding of the wehrmacht and all those good things and if anybody hasn't watched the series babel on berlin like please watch babel on berlin it's uh it's on netflix it's uh it's five years five years of series now i think uh you must binge watch it's beautiful because it's a crime drama it's a police fiction it's a police drama it's politic it's like a major geopolitical thing going on in the background uh a tiny plot spoiler at one point deep into season three our hero is basically sent on an airplane flight which is like vomit inducing to go scout uh an airbase which is in russia and basically the russians allowed the germans to build an airbase to train their pilots who were then used in the spanish civil war and then world war uh world war two to get around the restrictions for an air force in germany and so there's this black wehrmacht sort of the the black military uh of germany that that turns into when by the time hitler comes to power the german army is one of the best trained smartest armies there's ever been like it's like a brilliant military separate from hitler he did not conceive it or make it but the german military the german military that that meets up with hitler is one of the best militaries there's ever been anyway um all kinds of crap germany did you want to check in anymore all the stuff that's going on for you i have a question for jamay it's a question for jamay from the audience yes please yes yes i don't know if um i'm watching with some alarm and perhaps um and i would like you to um illuminate the whole um china and taiwan thing and all the ships um i mean all the uh the air flights and everything else i mean is this i mean sure you have a view on what's going on there what is going on there um i i think that uh to a degree shishiping is trying to distract from some pretty serious internal economic problems um and just writing high on the waves waves of nationalism that have been hitting in china and um and looking to make his mark um i i don't think that we're going to see an actual invasion attempt but you know and what what are we going to do if there is one yeah um would we be willing to to hit back as is our stated or as i don't know if at this point if it's just stated or simply implied policy i can't recall just to complicate matters put Putin is busy building up troops right outside the ukraine at the same moment they're just trying to give biden a hard time so we could have a two front war against russia and china in principle yeah and that's one of those things not that we like to pick on big bullies right well you know and it's one of those things that there is no no right or good answer for if china were to invade taiwan if you know russia were to just attempt to fully take on new take over ukraine um hitting back militarily would be suicidal or potentially seems like and not doing anything would be um extremely problematic would be devastating uh to to to the american economy to the american to whatever is left of our standing in the world as a potential leader um or even someone that can be trusted um you know i think that both she and putin know that and i think putin's more likely to act than she is simply because um putin has really has doesn't have a lot to lose he's done it before doesn't have a lot to lose um whereas china would almost certainly face some kind of serious economic um reaction globally um i i haven't been watching too closely because i already have a big enough ulcer um it is mostly i'm so disappointed in the world um so i'm not a good person to ask right now um what about the belt and road initiative do you know about that susan and what the the chinese are doing it's i do know about that and you know that they're using the money that they used to buy us treasury bonds to do that i didn't know that so they're not part either so they're not what they're doing is they're not playing nicey nice with the american economy and power and the petro dollar and uh so they're taking all that money and loading it and you realize if anybody defaults well then china you know repossesses your infrastructure oh it's a brilliant scheme yeah and from what i can tell the various nations that china china is investing in have very mixed feelings at best about it they want the money they want the investment but really don't like what comes along with it and this is the game the british imperium played too of loading my life it's a good old imperialism done by the congress party yeah bankers have played a huge role in all these wars i i would not want to be um no it looks so gleeful yeah exactly i'm sorry if it's intelligent i kind of respected i would not want to be on any of the aircraft carriers of the seventh fleet or whatever fleet we have swimming around near the south china sea like like if any if anything hot starts you're done you're done a super successful takes you out you're done yeah i would not want to be there i understand in our war games they keep having to sort of rejigger them because aircraft carriers always get hit well um this is very there's a very famous guy named paul van ryper and he completely fucked up a red team exercise way back when a war game and what he did was he had messages sent by messengers on motorcycles and then he had really tiny boats basically uh limited to explosives but thousands upon thousands of them go up and sidle up next to the ships of the fleet and destroyed the fleet every time and so they had to stop the exercise they they forbade him from breaking the rules and they sort of went back to business as usual but but he just went you know he went outside the rules and destroyed us with really cheap really cheap simple simple technologies a separate way of looking at the the china question a long time ago in undergrad somebody talked about daik pluse and peri pluse which were military tactics from the greek galleys and one of them is basically a defensive strategy where you put all your galleys all your galleys you line up your galleys tail end together so that they form spikes outward and if anybody's around you you just you attack and you attack really hard anytime there's a tiny attempt to attack you you strike back harder which was explained as israel's defensive strategy in the middle east to me and then peri pluse is the opposite peri pluse i think is when you're outside sort of trying to attack in but and then combine that with uh when napoleon marches into russia the russian army can't hold them back because they're way the poles are way outnumbered the russians are way outnumbered so what they do because they understand that napoleon's army uh eats uh the eats from what it can scavenge from territories it's occupying they do the scorched earth strategy they basically burn everything so that there's nothing edible left in napoleon's path and napoleon reaches reaches moscow takes moscow and then leaves and famously like only 20 000 soldiers are left out of 400 000 that went in so success at a tremendous cost but can if you were taiwan you know i wonder what's going through adri tang's head right now if you were taiwan what could you do is there is there a way you can turn yourself into a puffer fish so that if you're ingested by the enemy fish you blow yourself up and you they like they have to spit you back out like what could you possibly do could you make yourself somehow inedible or could you just destroy everything so that so that if they're going to come take you over while screw you we're not going to leave anything those are those are two like dramatically different kind of alternatives but if i were if i were in charge of taiwan and trying to figure out strategies i'd be trying to figure out i'd be figuring out a puffer fish plan somehow make yourself toxic make yourself painful so that they can't actually ingest you because one of the coolest things about adri tang and the democracy movement in taiwan is that it's a model that we should be following like like taiwanese democracy is more interesting and better rooted and has more to do with citizens and is it treats its citizens better and it's better seen by taiwanese than almost any democracy on earth that i can think of like it's super powerful super strong super interesting and it's it's the one that's maybe probably going to be ingested by china if they needed exactly something they can ride down out of the clouds but what would you do like i mean i have to remember to tell people they've got it though that's right maybe a movie maybe they could shoot a movie with peter salt asheady's dead um well there's always uh sasha brand cohen because now city's giving up doing any more borat movies or or actually any more of that style of filmmaking because he came too close to being killed in making the last borat movie i bet i bet he really pushes it i mean the idea that they go into the republican of the the republican not the republican convention but the other the other meeting and parade around in a in a trump outfit with pence over his shoulder or whatever it was oh wait with the the younger with the young lady over his shoulder that's right i have one for you like wow that takes i don't know what that takes but just in spa chutzpah chutzpah pohon is i'm kind of actually i'm a little bit where the china the taiwan thing is i think an example i'm curious a little bit are other people doing this jim jim i'm just assuming that you're like in a boom time for your business because it seems to me that i'm going back to okay well what's the next massive crisis right you know is it going to be like this this volcano that's going off in the caribbean kind of or you know it's like oh maybe i should prepare for a california earthquake or you know i'm spending a much more time i think thinking about some kind of crisis than i would have you know pre-pandemic basically you know and it's like you know and maybe it's because of like trump and then the pandemic you have you know crisis above it it's like well what's the next one you know what's next season going to bring and and i'm thinking to me there's an opportunity here for you to have a pirate tv show called crisis wheel of fortune real misfortune you well yeah and you can play you can play camino burrana every time well why isn't it the climate which is changing i mean you know Siberia is sort of melting so is the arctic greenland greenland is melting yeah and and one one thing i noticed in england was and nobody seemed alarmed watch as i was very alarmed um they had predicted this might happen was that the Gulf stream would slow down so there's so much you know water melt in the coming down off of greenland that it's pushing the um it's not it's making the whole thing stopping it's stopping the stopping and so they're very cold and they haven't figured out that this isn't going to go away and by the way if greenland melts it's a 20 foot worldwide sea level rise yeah and it's happening fast just just greenland yeah never mind at arctic really really interesting research done a few years ago that i've been looking on the lookout for for follow-up research that how fast would a sea level rise that came from you know greenland or and arctic how fast would that propagate because it's not it's not going to be a case of it goes into the water it goes to the ocean and the oceans all rise immediately it has to propagate and that's and that is shaped by currents yes and that propagation shape and the research showed that it would actually take on you know it would actually take close to a year for a rapid greenland melt to actually have an have an impact and that there were some scenarios of an Antarctic melt that got trapped in the Antarctic ocean ah yes and but I only saw the one paper and I haven't found any follow-up on it so it's so the so the logic there is that sea level rise within the Atlantic bounding countries would be much sharper than 20 feet or whatever the estimates would be um it could be could be sharper but also be slower yeah well slow well slower propagation means much worse within the area where the trap is happening right i'm saying if the propagation were slowed up by this trap you describe then as assuming greenland keeps melting quickly yeah so it would be worse around greenland but what i'm saying is that people would I can't look at these things through a political filter of how do people react to something like this you've been told us this disaster is happening and then you know actually doesn't seem too bad yeah it's a pandemic is it well i don't know anybody who's sick um you know the the wildcard that i'm most uh attuned to is um the island of La Palma in the canary islands canary in the coal mine so to speak well it is a sorry Dave i'm sorry i'm curious it you can weave softest rock it's a precarious rock basically it will at some point in the geologically near future collapse into the ocean and cause something on the order of a 200 foot uh tidal wave haven't had this one yet come on it's the east coast uh yeah so it's La Palma island in the canary islands um it is it is geologically active um and no one's quite sure how much of a shake it will take to have cause half the island to slide off into the ocean and basically wipe out the east coast of the americas damn well good thing the good thing the first link that shows up on google is a tourism link because they're going to need that real quick well it's one of those things that you can't predict it mean or it's at least currently not predictable we know that it is just from our understanding of geology we know that it's going to happen at some point it could take a big shock it could take a bunch of little shocks um and so that's my that's my favorite wild card because what can you do about it it's just i'm sorry i'm not in a good mood for this today uh i'll sit here and listen to everyone else being really accomplished and i'm gonna i'll sit back and just sort of think about my that i peaked i peaked a number of years ago but has anybody read the ministry of the future i started i started it i started it uh kim stanley robinson i started it and found it boring like like like i found the start totally predictable and boring like okay these bunch of people have to live in air conditioning all the time these bunch of people are suffering and i didn't get deep enough intuitive for it to like grab me either so i should because it seems it seems to be well done have you see have you read other ksr books other of his books some of the mars mars trilogy and a couple other things yeah he's a very um bureaucratic writer if you want to read a hundred pages on the creation of the new mars constitution it's there for you in uh in uh green mars um well he's a want he's a he's a wonk yeah yeah what yes i met him i shook his hand once at a conference look here for david david are you still in vermont are you back on the west where are you back in open he's in la palma waiting for the volcano exactly i'm gonna spend my time on the west coast from now on though thank you for that warning to me oh well it's sort of in the spirit of checking in and i have i have to switch calls at the at the half hour mark so we're gonna have to wrap on time which is what we usually do i guess but peter thank you for connecting me to hamilton which turned into a conversation with matt saia of collective next which turned into a year of working building doing stuff with open global mind which i've been working on which in the last couple weeks has been through a bit of an existential crisis um and so we have been heading directly toward a structure called steward ownership that i think i mentioned on a previous call here uh steward ownership is a is a is an organizational form right there's many and this one uh is it's meant to be a durable form that is good to the earth so the steward ownership basically well thank you um so steward ownership basically has a non-profit and in the u.s that means a 501c3 that owns all of the shares of a for-profit like a c-corp and what it does and i don't like either the 501c3 or the c-corp models very much but what this does is it harnesses the rapacious nature of your c-corp into the public good because it has to follow the dictates of what the non-profit wants which is like the benefit of humanity so and then the good news is that these two structures are incredibly well known well grouped in american culture law economy so so these are very stable you know entities that that that you can then use to build a foundation to pour open source you know code and data into the commons you could build a for-benefit on top of this you could kind of use this as a platform the idea so i made uh i was i was um i was on a call five months ago and a guy after the call pings me his name is jordan and he says hey um we i'd love to talk to you i love i like what you said on the call he has spent the last five years researching and then finding and then trying to create a way to bring lots of entities into the steward ownership model so he's trying to build an ecosystem of steward-owned companies that then can help one another because they have different kinds of skills and capacities that then can build something out and and i thought this was pretty cool and we've been working really hard on it and just i think uh today's wednesday just yesterday on the coordinating call for this uh a few of us were like we need to we need to hit pause partly because open global mind was really having like high-speed wobbles so and and this is this is you know not information out yet so i'm we're gonna have this conversation tomorrow so don't go blog it right now but but it's been a really educational really kind of difficult journey and a bunch of other stuff but in the meantime like that's what that's most of what i've done for the last year so revenues are awful i have a couple tiny gigs right now that are kind of like keeping the the heartbeat going but i now need to sort of like pause build some inside stuff for open global mind better worry about diversity and open global mind because there's way too many white guys and go worry about my own revenues for a while and try to get some speeches and other sorts of things which i haven't done for a while but um but ogm is this lovely thing that keeps getting more and more interesting and Pete Kaminsky is like nostril deep in it he is kind of the scotty and data and uhura of ogm all at once um and uh and i get to which means i get to sort of co-work with him all you know all the time and and he started inventing something which is uh something i've had as a wish list item for a really long time which i can explain and like in like a minute uh so he's of course mr wiki he was one of the co-founders of social text which was a wiki company that sold wikis to enterprises so he's always got wiki on his brain and then we had this conversation about um how could we separate the data from the wiki and from other tools so that the data is reusable and are you all familiar with markdown so enough nods no so markup hypertext html is the hypertext markup uh language right and mark and hypertext markup can get pretty complicated and it's not easily human readable after a very short while in response a bunch of people started writing in markdown which means when i hit when i hit a hash mark and put something that means make it a first level title two hash marks is a second level title blah blah blah a dash and then a sentence means make this a bullet and then there's and then four dashes means put a horizontal rule across the page so markdown is really really simple writing and you can write in markdown and then and then see it made made beautiful you know uh in in some other sort of tool it's it's sort of an alternative to what you see is what you get you know just what which we're used to in word you know google docs and all that but what it buys you is this incredibly simple file format which then so imagine that i've got a bio that there's a page called jerry mckalski and a wiki awesome that same page could show up as a presentation page in something that's like a powerpoint killer so there's a whole bunch of little little presentation apps that love markdown and what you do is you create a markdown file or several markdown files and and then you point to them and those each become pages in your presentation and when you say present them the same set of pages get formatted the text gets bigger because it's a presentation you blow off all the menus you put a left and right arrow in so that you can toggle through the rest of your presentation is nowhere near as powerful as powerpoint but that same page could then be a page on a website with this with a static site generator which is a way of building pages out of simple things like markdown that same page could be in a brain and part of what we've done in the free jerry's brain subgroup of open global mind is first you know use the export function of the brain to create a big pile of json which is a data format that's more complicated than markdown so we've got my brain exported at a point a couple months ago we can do it again but but how do we then start modeling this so that the same so that we start to disengage all these different ways of seeing apps and data from the data itself which becomes this layer of hopefully linked trustworthy contextualized data so that when bow using kumu addresses some node and updates the data I using the brain will get updated data in my brain view for example right um and so we should just sell it sell nfts on this is that what you're saying is right yeah nft nfts are we ultimately come down to it it's just basically a cryptographically signed the the solution to everything right well actually I don't think they're quite aside from the whole um proof of work an environmental disaster asked yes but there is um there is that that little thing um the concept of nfts doesn't really strike me as outrageous because it's essentially giving you giving a um a a believable signature on some things it's not just here's this drawing and everybody loves this drawing everybody has a copy of it this is a signed picasso lithograph you know and I can have that a copy of it on my wall it's not unique in that respect but it's just one I have a signature for it and that's what as far as I can understand it that's what an nft is except it's a signature that if I were to sell that lithograph to somebody else the costo gets a cut because he's maintaining that level of ownership of it which is all I I aside again aside from the whole environmental disaster part actually I think nfts are kind of interesting yep me too so I'm I'm exactly in that in that ambivalence on the one hand there's a there's an environmental disaster brewing in all of these blockchain related um crypto things but on the other hand so one of the artists who sold an nft baked into the smart contract that's inside the nft not just 10 back to the artist which is becoming customary in art art nfts but also a flow of cash to all the people who worked in her studio on the day this thing was sold and you could build because it's a smart contract there's a language called lexon anybody familiar with lexon or solid um or solidify I think there so lexon is a human readable legal language that is also machine readable so they found this sort of middle ground where you can make a very explicit contract that that is crisper than pros yeah and and it's really cool so imagine you can then start baking community support support for the commons other kinds of things into an nft contract and then as it appreciates some hunk of that new money at each at each further sale is coming back into and fueling the art market or the art you know art community I'm like this is great and then the third piece of this that's really difficult is that now that nfts are available and the technology is widely distributed everybody in their uncle wants to launch an nft which means the market is going to get completely polluted which basically means buyer beware and also might mean the collapse of the whole thing because there's just too much of it right so it might it might just be that that that everybody poisons it by by launching an nft on everything but but I totally understand why somebody would have paid five hundred thousand dollars for um uh word sells article about nfts in a snapshot like that is a memorable event in the history of nfts and you want that one that one's going to be valuable right and people's famous you know famous one is going to be valuable I don't know if it's going to go that much beyond 69 66 million dollars but still I know I think that there is this this proliferation of them and it will probably end up um whittling over time whittling down to being the equivalent of you know equivalent of a signed lithograph you know for digital art primarily but but it's already it's already so different from the digital lithograph and also in in the art world you have this insane problem of forgeries and fakes like you're never really quite sure you have that monnaie right never really quite sure and here you can actually be sure unless somebody screwed up the wallet and lost it but then it's lost right well that that's my point that it will become you know with all of these different experiments with it great see what it fits with just don't destroy the planet um but once they figure out that is the uh proof of um I forgot what the other one is about proof of proof of I'm sorry steak yeah um once I figure that out then it will be a hard to refuse you know that's actually the forgery I'm thinking what occurred to me was baseball cards yeah there's a big problem with forgeries of signatures on baseball cards because that's why so many of the if you were to buy a baseball card you it comes with a photograph of the of the player signing the card and nba is already selling an ft's of different plays for better or worse so that kind of thing I can totally see this model surviving but just I don't know if you noticed on the chat at your crisper than pros and I know you used the comparative then and crisper with an e yeah but just the crisper then pros in that context that made me think you know how would you apply that kind of model to I like that genetic engineering could you have a cryptographically signed gene tweak so so basically Moderna the scientists could basically could autograph the sequence they got when they figured out that they'd crack the code on the covid vaccine and they could sell that as an nft and that might be and that's just a really primitive pass at what you what you're thinking about here yeah because I'm thinking something along the lines of I want to guarantee that this is the Moderna and not a knockoff oh just as an authentication mechanism so it could be an authentication mechanism could be a signature it could be proof of origin as doesn't surprise you this is where my mind goes it could be a way of blocking out illicit copies such as having an unauthorized copy in your kit mm-hmm so I you have to basically pay for reproduction rights to to pass along this genetic tweak oh good good so now you'd have to like a buy a license to to have a baby mm-hmm gattaca welcome to gattaca go ahead susie that's for my i'm just agreeing I like that you like gattaca no I like the idea of licensing I mean I really think that's cool we need that now any uh any other check-ins or thoughts we got a few minutes left I got a question this may be a good group to ask I'm just I was trying to know more about like the history and design of like the wordpress ecosystem um because it seems like I it might be a good model for other kinds of open spacey collaborative revenue and generating you know things but I don't really know the details very well can we read anything or I I don't know too much more than just like the evident stuff um and I tried for I think 15 years to love wordpress and ended up just hating it so I've left it entirely but there's a whole ecosystem of companies that sell themes and that will build wordpress sites and so forth same thing with Drupal same thing with a couple other sort of open source code bases that work differently from each other but there's a there's a whole bunch of of communities like this and I think open source communities in general are a very nice business model here because there's there's code in the commons and then there's businesses making a living from nurturing the code in the commons and everybody benefits from the code staying in the commons and getting better over time that that's a that's a dynamic I'm trying to replicate I heard something in a podcast and he was a fascinating guy and they also have a global team so basically they can work around the clock they have very specific sort of ways that the teams work together and they have a very interesting culture actually so I think they're well worth looking at for building an organization anybody else know anything about wordpress ecosystem and Dave we've got a catch of call about regenerative ag stuff with via class with OGM and all that coming up I'm just really interesting in what you and Hodgson and everybody else have been up to and what it's shaping into and and all of that so yeah be fun it'll be fun well actually I've been reading I don't know that the innovation broker stuff that Klaus was sharing is really interesting I don't know if you've looked at it much but I've looked at it some and and I told him up front I was really turned off by the words innovation broker but the idea is really really good like like like the moment it was called innovation broker I'm like ah crap brokers in the middle of innovation but that's not really what he means that's not the intention of it so so I think we're we're into it and Klaus is really interesting this guy is Klaus Magra he's a he's an important member in the open global mine community he for years what ran food facilities at Disney and so when Disney Asia opened it was his job to go like create all the food behind the scenes for Disney Asia for example I forgetting which one probably the Macau or something like that I don't remember which one but then he went and worked for a German chain doing food service and then he had a he had a I'm getting close to retirement age I need to do something significant significant moment and then shifted entirely out of the industry and has been trying to change the food system toward regenerativity which to me to me the benefits of this are like a no-brainer because regenerative ag has like five different awesome mutually reinforcing side benefits like people get employed the earth gets richer the earth soaks up more carbon crops are healthier like like there's all kinds of really good spillout from regenerative ag but the industry and its structures and profit models and all that can sort of lie in the way and and so how to how to get past that I think is the is a huge piece here I just put the podcast in David about WordPress and it's the founder and he talks about Genesis and building the culture and they should do a guy Ross interview with him about how I built this that would be a really good story yeah the quit you know that's the the question's kind of like how do you like I don't want software to be the asset necessarily you know I want to you know it seems like you want a core asset around which things develop and I feel like you know with GRC kind of you've got an active ecosystem of people who are probably willing to co-create in some sense but like how do you kind of link that get the asset started and the ecosystem started and then you know have a managing system happening at this you know I mean like how does that happen so agreed well cool I'm happy spring is here we're all going good so yeah so good anybody vaccinated raise your hands I got my first to get my second or 22nd I have nine I have both awesome I'm not even in the queue we're like April and I are waiting to be told but but the deadline in Oregon is like we should be we should be approved right soon I mean we don't qualify for any of the list that can go get a vaccine are you on the Oregon website thing and everything yeah it's really crappy but we are I was one of the people they mistakenly allowed in oh perfect and I apologize I could still could do it and I'm lucky damn right I'm doing it of course awesome hopefully next call we've all had like a couple vaccines that would be great and I think it's a really worth the conversation well the emotional relief that some people say they have when they've got it is just outrageous I mean just off the scale apparently a whole lot of people cry after they get vaccinated yeah I definitely had emotional relief I definitely had it yeah and then you immediately stop start worrying about collapsing islands so you know yeah yeah which I'm going to go worry about again yeah exactly so thank you everybody thank you Jerry thank you