 Hello and welcome. In our Beating a Lot segment today, we have someone who's as cool as a cucumber and manages to keep calm in the toughest of situations as per his teammates. The lockdown period is perhaps the best test of his leadership. We have with us Amir Jaleel, CCO and Chairman of the Manan-Loblentas Group. Hi Amir. Thank you. Thank you for your very very kind introduction. Tell me, how are you keeping your cool in such testing times? You know, I had some early sort of scare. My son was abroad. And then, you know, I had to get him out to fly him out in a day's notice. But otherwise, you know, I adapt, I think, very quickly. And I think that's the reason why I kind of sort of look as if I'm calm. Internally, there's, you know, major, you know, always strife going on in my head. I'm carrying, you know, huge responsibility of quite a big agency. People's welfare and all that. But at the same time, I like to show that things are in control, things are cool. Because somewhere I think, you know, my training has been like that, you know. I have frequently been in crisis situations, you know, of various kinds. And you're always right. You're in front of a client. You don't have a script. It's actually going to be, you know, the question is just about to be popped to you. So what's the great answer that you have got to this huge problem that we have? And you're thinking on your feet and internally you're just always calculating, calculating, calculating. And somehow, just at the time when you need to talk, something comes out. So a lot of training, I guess. Okay. And tell me what has been the biggest shift or change in the creative world pose the onslaught of COVID-19? I think, I think spatial chemistry. I call it spatial chemistry. The idea of creative people actually being together and sitting in the same space, talking to each other, acting to each other. The way, you know, creators used to brainstorm in the same room, three, four people sitting in the same room, two people sitting in the same room. Spatial chemistry has taken a big, big, big hit. But spatial chemistry is something that we learned, you know, as creative people. It was natural to learn it at that time. So that has taken a hit. But I see a lot of people from the office completely forgetting about the space. So I'm also learning that. And in a sense, you know, I'm trying to practice that with you in this room where I'm with you and just trying to be natural as if we are sitting across. So yes, that's one thing that I see in creativity. Second thing I see is expectations are a lot more and a lot more fine tuned from clients. So what is happening? A lot of clients are actually happy focused from the larger things. The bigger issues, this, that and all that. And everybody is concentrating on brands. On what is the end for the brands. And you will agree that the time is so delicate and so fragile for brands right now that everybody actually wants to contribute. Everybody wants to be part of every little thing. So that challenge has become huge. So talking of a WhatsApp group and every one minute, 30 seconds, some part of the client or some part of the agency team, you know, being on it active all the time. Noticing a little thing. But I think, you know, at edit point 023, I think that not that that thing there was not right. And maybe you could replace it with something else. Those sort of finer things have sort of popped up in our work. The everybody knows everything about everything that is happening. So information overload like never before. Also earlier it was about sales or maybe pushing products out aggressively in the market to some level. Now it appears that most brands are just engaging with the consumers and trying to keep the brand love alive. Do you see that change immediately post the lockdown? I think people are going to immediately start focusing on revenues and sales on market, you know, expansion, all of those things immediately. So it's good that right now they are focusing on other things. There are products that are really flying off the shelves. So there is no problem. You know, you don't need sales oriented work for them to fly on the shelf and there are products that are not selling at all. So you don't need and you know that they'll tell at the time because they're just not available. So you again don't need sort of sales oriented messages for them. So in both cases, people are focusing more on the engagement, more on what what they mean to a consumer rather than actually trying to be pushing about products. And I think that's great at this point. That's what is needed. But tell me how are your agencies specifically approaching the lockdown? Are they looking at it as an adversity or an opportunity? We're trying to deal with probably the biggest human crisis ever. We're trying to be humane as much as possible from our side. We're trying to be a great support for our people because you know, that's just our culture. That's just the lintas culture. We focus on our people. It's always been, you know, people ahead of everything else for us. So that's one huge part of our focus. Second focus is our clients. We always are a partner and a great partner to our clients. So we see ourselves as a reflection of our clients, of the needs of our clients, of the kind of things that our clients need to do. All of those things are all what we kind of, you know, have to, we need to be the support at this time. So that's our second most, you know, we know it's an opportunity. But we try not to behave like it's an opportunity. We don't try, we try not to jump at it. We try not to, you know, gloat at the opportunity. But yes, how we are thinking of it is in the back of our heads. We're trying to see the opportunity ahead. And we're trying to plan. We're trying to strategize both as an agency, as an institution and as partners to our clients. So what in the new world is going to change? So in that way, we are looking at it as an opportunity. Yes, true. Another problem is, you know, while we're at agency, we're trying to cope. Production houses are pretty much not functioning because of multiple reasons. Now, every most agencies try to turn in-house teams to produce a film. Were you at an advantage considering that you already have a very well established production at hand? And how did that help you as an agency? See, Neeta, we have both things. We have very, very, very deep connections with advertising filmmakers. So what has helped us most is that, for example, we know that if we have to shoot something, suppose, you know, the other day Lynn Productions, Poonam, who heads Lynn Productions, she shot for us, she shot an ad for us where she needed four different set-ups to be shot. And we could easily have told the client that we can't shoot four set-ups in this. And Poonam said that, look, I know four DOPs who will shoot this separately for us in their homes with their families. And we'll bring it together. So, you know, and the kind of deal that we'll structure with them will have to be like that. That you're doing just a part of the job. So, you know, and we have the relationship with people like that. So one ad was shot with four DOPs in four different houses with very good quality results, you know, as such. And not any compromise there. So that's one part of Lynn Productions. What is that we ourselves as an agency know so many people of the industry, film makers, song writers, musicians, DOPs, art people, all kinds of people. And these are all our friends. So because of them being our friends, it's lovely to just make that connection that, oh shit, okay, that person can do this for us without moving out of their house. That person will be able to do double duty, both as an art person and she has a kid. Okay, so we can use the kid like that. So she will be able to set up the art hand. We'll be able to use a kid as a cast. So all of these French are now coming off great use to us. And not just me, it's not just me. There are about 150 people like me in Lintas spread all over and they all have such relationships. So that has been good. You spoke about something where a person has to take up more than one role, something that he didn't sign up for. Has there been an interesting situation like that with you or any of your teammates where you had to do something that you wouldn't otherwise? See, look, let's be honest, times are tough. And I'll talk about myself. I fancy myself as a creative guide, creative mentor, creative quality controller, all of those things. But at this time, I have to think business, I have to think finance, I have to think health, I have to think office safety. So the goals that I have had to sort of take on, and I'm sure more people have also in their way are doing this. But here is me, I am multitasking like here. So now, first, how to lock down the office, how to make it, how to make work from home a reality. And all the different things involved in it. I was part of that, but you know, like I told you my son was, you know, I forget my son back and I had self quarantine and stuff like that at that point. But now that we're going back to office, going back to office is actually a bigger responsibility because all the people who are safe in their homes are now going to come to one space, not now, not anytime soon, but eventually what is going to happen, how are we going to keep all of them safe, how are we going to deal with the challenges that clients have, that business has gone on like this, that targets have suffered, they're going to be financial implications of that. How to deal with all of that? This is my new reality and that's the roles, that so many roles that I'm having to fill up. I'm sure you're pulling that off as well. And another thing, you know, agency is like, why you spoke about, you know, agencies are trying to go base work from home beautifully. And now the problem is most ads have begun to look painfully similar. I could literally replace a paint ad with a FMCG ad and not know who's behind what. Now, how do you move beyond that? You know, we are in a lockdown situation, that might change, might not change, but you need to have a way forward. What is that? See, unfortunately, everybody is referencing the same, same, same things that are happening, right? Because it's a very limited world that we are living in right now. So everybody is trying to, you know, pick out little nuances and little emotions and things like that. But essentially, the world is very, very limited. It's like you're living, you know, on a, you know, TV serial set of, you know, everything happening of a similar kind in every TV serial like that, right? Yes. So yes, so stuff like that is becoming a challenge. I frankly don't know how we are going to deal with it, but we are trying. So the things that will help us, I think is the, I think is the little ways in which the different media are expected, right? So there is now there's so many new media. So like for example, you know, everybody's fond of saying tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. There's a very different approach to tick tock, okay? So the media itself will dictate a different approach. You will not do a typical ad for tick tock. You'll not do a typical ad for Instagram. We did a Mumbai Police campaign actually with that and you might want to look it up. The idea of the campaign is maybe Mumbai Police. So the challenge was that the police are facing flag, so many videos going on. We could see, you know, everywhere of people dealing, what people thought that police were dealing partially with people and stuff like that. And you know, while the police needs to do a lot of work, the police also needs some kind of, you know, imagery. There's kind of projection that the police also needs to get cooperation from people, right? So we got this great challenge from the Mumbai Police and I'm happy to say that that campaign depended very, very little actually on film. So it was completely social media. There is a video there, but the campaign is completely social media. It's gone out everywhere. It's become a national campaign. Every, many, many police departments from all different states have adapted the campaign for their needs. And in fact, the biggest and nicest thing that happened out of that was that when it was the incident of Harjeet Singh, the policeman, who had that unfortunate incident of the arm, you know, somebody attacked him and actually, you know, cut his arm. The Punjab police, because they were also doing our campaign and wanted us to sort of have a solidarity campaign. And we thought of a very simple thing that came at that time and it's nothing to do with the film. It's just the circumstances that, you know, gave rise to that and which was that like every policeman in the Punjab police force and, you know, general people across the country, other police people, other bureaucrats, sported batches saying, may be Maharjeet Singh. So they expressed solidarity and the police could express the fact that they will not back off from their duty, you know, even though such incidents happen. So those things, you know, specific things allow us different kind of creativity. And that flowers and that is, you know, quite rewarding for us. Another important aspect is something we discussed earlier. Do you feel this is that period where agencies need to move beyond video ads and focus maybe more on providing business solutions to clients because the focus after the lockdown is going to sell a brand. Not exactly just brand building but actually getting the consumer to pick it up. So how do you go about that? Are you working on anything in that department? Simita, again, you know, we don't have to specifically focus on this because many of our clients, with many of our clients, we've been working in this very way. I'll give you an example, very quick example. I myself was and am involved in Life Boy the Brand, which is actually a health brand. In the entire history of Life Boy, because it's a health brand, it's got, you know, it's got a different kind of creativity, you know, SMCG sort of thing. It's to do with health, doctors, this, that we've had a very narrow sort of way, creative way in which we could exploit it. But we have always had very, very interesting and important value addition where strategy starts. I'll give you a little example about, you know, strategy, how we did a strategy for Life Boy and this was some time ago. And it has to do with the current situation because, you know, Life Boy deals with germs and viruses and things like that, right? So at one point, Life Boy was expanding all over the world. It used to be, you know, not such a premium brand and very simple bar of soap and all, but the ambition at Unilever is some of the great client partners that have really helped make that brand into something, you know, quite different today. So when they gave us the talent of how to, you know, market Life Boy in many countries, we realized and it was an agency at that point that other health brands that were in operation at that point had been health brands for longer and they were older health brands. Whereas Life Boy, which has also been in operation for very long, but was coming out with new products and in a new way, with new protection as a benefit, actually could talk about the fact that, see, old brands and old remedies are for old things. But everybody knew that germs and viruses, one of the things that happens in the new world is they evolve. And because viruses evolve, you need new protection, new kinds of protection. So that strategic input that carried the brand all across the world at that point was actually given by the agency. The idea that germs and viruses are evolving. And that's why you need, you are in new world protection, which is actually proven against the evolving germs and viruses, which is Life Boy. That became such an important strategic input. So we are used to dealing, we are used to contributing on businesses, on marketing and many, many, there are many instances, many of these will be under celebrated. For example, on Life Boy, the most celebrated thing is Gundappa. You know, Helperchild Beach pipe. But this input, which probably has benefited the brand equally or much more across the world, you never see it. We don't advertise it. We don't talk about it. But we always are contributing like that. So that's one part of it. Second, going forward. So I have, you know, I have a pet theory here. I don't know whether it will come true or not. But my theory is that, you know, everybody has been talking about digital for a very long time. Okay. And everybody believes that going forward, just like, you know, coming from this crisis that we are going to emerge on top, digital will explode. A lot of digital marketing will happen. A lot of digital products will come across. I had a slightly sort of sharper and a slightly narrower idea of what is going to happen. I feel that out of digital, virtual, it takes a stage. And what I mean by virtual is that experiences that, you know, that we used to have in the physical world earlier, we will now be okay to have those experiences in the virtual world. So just as an example, if you're shopping for luxury goods of some kind, there are two ways to shop. Either you go to a shop, you actually pick up the leather bag, you feel it, you look around, you look at it, this, that. And you buy it. Otherwise, you go to a website and you just see the leather bag like that. And, you know, you magnify it a little bit, see the grain on the leather, this, that. Now, actually, think about, you know, something in the center of it, which is that there is a virtual assistant somewhere and you as a shopper actually are interacting with that virtual assistant. So it could either be a computer generated virtual assistant or it could be an actual person who's sitting across in a great atmosphere where you can interact with that person. The person actually displays everything to you. You have a look at it. This is one part of it. So that's virtual shopping, you know, and a great experience. You get to interact with the person, you know, the person holds the product up. You get to ask a question about it. Where is it made? And it's a rich experience, you know, not just reading about it or not just hearing about it, but really a real virtual experience. So that's an example of a virtual experience. And I feel that all of these experiences of various kinds, not just this, but, you know, there could be a similar sort of thing in the sports industry, a similar kind of thing in the media industry. Many such experiences, I think, of a virtual nature will evolve and an agency like ours who understands basically consumer behavior. We would like to contribute actually to these virtual experiences. So what happens in from our side is technology, which is today the easiest thing to source. We can source from anywhere for these virtual experience, but the consumer side of this, the understanding of when a virtual assistant talks in a sum in this way to the person, the person will react that way. Or if the virtual assistant appears like this and the background is in a certain way and the script of how it needs to be done. Those creative inputs are a very different nature of what will be required from us. So in my opinion, these are the new inputs. And I've just scratched the surface and I myself am not capable of imagining all the things that will be asked to do. But just as an example, I believe virtual is going to be huge in future. Another thing is you have had fantastic long relationships with your clients. You said life boy, then there is havels or tata tea. Now in the chain circumstances of the lockdown, do you also see a change in the way clients are behaving? Do you think they are much more understanding today than what they were earlier? Another peck theory. See, Nita, any experience that you share, you go through in a shared manner with anybody always builds your bond. Whether you are sitting at home and interacting with your family, that will make you your family. Whether you are facing the same challenge, such a huge challenge come from the marketplace, from the way that it's come because of this crisis that has happened. Everybody, we and our clients are facing the same challenge and we are having in a sense a shared understanding together of this. Shared anything will always be beautiful. It will always bring you closer, it will give you empathy for each other. It will always create the bond and a greater partnership than ever before. I really like that idea that we are facing a common enemy and that common enemy will bring us closer together. While you are trying to maybe make better of the relationships that you have, I am hearing that a lot of pitches are back. They are happening just as much as they used to before the lockdown. Do you personally feel that it's a good idea for clients to jump boats right now? I think, Nita, if the crisis has not made anybody rich, I don't think so. I think there were already some relationships that were at the point of collapse or they couldn't see eye to eye for some reason or anything like that. And I think those are the reasons that the crisis has kind of enhanced those situations. They have made those sort of breaks in the relationship more apparent. And I think that's the reason why these pitches are getting announced. I have not faced any issue in the agency at this point from any of our clients saying we would like to go on pitch right now. Fortunately that's not happened to us. But yes, we have participated in a lot of pitches. In 40 days, more than 20. Okay, wow. We need to have a chat on that later. Let's end this discussion by speaking about perhaps the most exciting work that has come out of both your creative agencies. I'm sure you have your favorites. My favorite work I already told you. It's the Mumbai Police campaign that we have done. We really feel that we felt really one with the police when we did this campaign. And we are extremely lucky. It just came, it's pro bono work. Of course, it will be pro bono. We are not going to do this work for Mumbai Police during this time. It's not a commercial arrangement at all. So that is one great piece of work on this side. On the Mullen side, we just put up a piece which is actually, I don't know whether it is in creative terms, great, not great and all that. But in terms of working alongside a client, understanding what they are about, it was great for me. And there is a small, simple piece on Safola where the whole idea of the piece was that the insight came from the fact that people who are locked down at home tend to eat a lot. And Safola as a health brand would like to get behind more healthy habits in eating. So the whole thing was called hashtag snackathon. And the idea was that there is a snackathon at home during this time and how to get over, make tasty and good food without risk to your health. So this piece from Mullen was really good. On that note, let me say may you continue to bring out healthy campaigns during this lockdown period and afterwards as well. Thank you so much, Amit for speaking to us. It's always great. Thank you so much.