 Good morning and good evening to our viewers joining us from around the world. My name is Harvey Floyd II and I'm a senior executive coach and university lecturer with a specialty in diversity and inclusion and team performance. I will be moderating today's Facebook live discussion on behalf of the Young African Leaders Initiative, better known as YALI. Today's program is special not only because of the amazing women we'll be chatting with, but also because it's the first of a special YALI 10 leadership chat series created to commemorate YALI's 10th anniversary. In 2010, 115 leaders came to Washington for YALI's first program, the President's Forum on Young African Leaders. Fast forward to today and YALI has graduated over 20,000 alumni between the Washington, the Mandela Washington Fellowship Exchange program and regional leadership centers and membership in the online YALI network is over 650,000 strong. For the past decade, YALI has empowered youth across the continent to take control of their own future. If you'd like to learn more about YALI or join the YALI network, please check out yali.state.gov. During this special YALI 10 series, we'll have an opportunity to meet some of these amazing YALI alumni as we explore a wide range of leadership topics. Now, I'm very excited about today's conversation on empowering women leaders, and it's my pleasure to introduce today's guest speakers who collectively have a breadth of leadership experience and are making a positive impact in their communities. Joining us from the Martin Luther King Jr. American Center, U.S. Embassy Ghana, is Regina Honu. Regina is the CEO of a technology company, Sorinco Solutions. Her company runs a coding and a human centered design school in West Africa for children and adults called Sorinco Academy. Welcome Regina. Thank you, Javi. Joining us from the U.S. Embassy in South Sudan is Nacera Victoria. Nacera is the founder of NASFIC initiative. Her organization empowers women and girls through sports, agriculture, and business. Welcome, Nacera. Thank you, Javi. And joining us from Hudson Valley, New York, is Sally Helgeson. Sally is an author, speaker, and leadership coach. Her latest book is How Women Rise. Break the 12 Habits Holding You Back from Your Next Raise, Promotion, or Job. Thank you, Sally, for joining us. Javi, it's wonderful to be here. Now, I'd like to give a special thank you to all of our viewers joining us from all around the world, and a very special thank you to our viewing groups gathered in Cameroon, Liberia, Nigeria, East Wattini, Namibia, Mali, Ethiopia, Central African Republic, South Sudan, and Ghana. We definitely want to hear your questions and thoughts. So please, during the program, write them in the comments section below. Before we begin, I would like everyone to understand that we might discuss topics that make some of us uncomfortable. But please know everything we discuss will be to further promote women and girls empowerment and bring awareness to issues like gender discrimination. Regina, I'd like to start our discussion with you. From an early age, you've had an interest in science and technology. Can you tell us about that? So my interest in science and technology really started very early on. And the first interaction that I had was I watched a movie, and a man was able to fly with a rocket strapped on his back. And at the time, I thought everything on TV was real. So I had never traveled. I wanted to build my own rockets and use that to fly. I draw a prototype, take it to my teacher who says it's impossible, girls don't build rockets and I'll end up in the kitchen. And then when I wanted to study computer science, I was told technology is not for boys, it's for girls. I mean, it's not for girls, it's for boys. So at every point in time, I would say that I was held back when I wanted to go into science and technology. But then I had to overcome all those different hurdles. And even when I went to university, there were three of us that were studying computer science. And my first entry into programming language was a language called Visual Basic. And in the sphere of computer language is that's like the easiest one. I failed the first class. And I wanted to give up. I was like, everybody's right, you know, I'm just not cut out for this. But then I decided to go back and work hard at it. So I would say my journey was met with a lot of noise in the beginning. And I wasn't encouraged early on when I wanted to go into technology. Powerful. I love that you've overcome knows the notion of impossibility as well as failure. Here's another question for you. Your company, Sarnco Solutions, works on social impact. Why is it important for you to work with youth in Africa? So I believe Africa's biggest and most valuable resource is this human resource. So we're very youthful population. And for me, it's important that we scale Africans so that we solve our own problems. So I believe that, you know, the awakening comes when young Africans are able to have the right skills, the right mindset to be able to contribute to solutions to the problems that they have to live with every day. So helping young people discover their potential, especially women and girls that are the most vulnerable and for my own experience for me is a way to leave a legacy, but also contribute in developing, you know, the continent. So I believe women and girls are very important factor in transforming the African continent. Powerful. Powerful. Solving our own problems. Nasera, I know your work also has social impact. Your organization has trained hundreds of women on how to manage community projects for themselves. Why did you feel project management was an important skill for these women to learn? Yeah, I think when you come to project management, women have naturally been project managers, even home managers, like from creation. So what we have to do now is just to add on what they already have. All women are project managers or their home managers. So we just equip them with the basic skills like, for example, a woman has opened a poultry business. So how does she keep the records? How does she keep the production grow? So we have to equip them in a way that they'll be able to track the progress and the returns from their projects so that they're able to benefit. Or else it will become a business in vain. And when you look at the women in South Sudan, they really have very good and sound business ideas or project ideas. But the only challenge is they don't have that skill to manage it or run it. Otherwise, if they are well equipped, we will have businesses progressing all over across the country. It's very powerful. You know, I hear a link between both of your stories, which is empowering the most vulnerable people among us and equipping them with the skills to solve their own problems, which I think is really wonderful. Nacera, you and Regina both are Yalei Alumni. Can you share with us how being involved in the Young African Leaders Initiative helped prepare you for what you were doing today? Right after joining the Yalei Alumni or the Yalei Fellowship, I really had changed my life or my everything about me changed completely, especially after returning back from the fellowship. One being I was able to attend the networking. My network really go all across Africa. As I speak now, I have at least a single fellow in each country in Africa, whom I'm able to connect with and also learn how he or she is doing all his activities in the country. And then it also gave me more opportunities. Like as I speak now, I've been also linked from yesterday's post concerning today's discussion. A lady from New York was able, sorry, from London was able to reach out to me that they also have a very good program, which is called Young World. It's an organization called Young World. They also empower young leaders. So they have invited me to join that group and also join them in the upcoming summit in Netherlands. So the Yalei Fellowship is really very good. And I was also able to benefit from several programs. One being the Alumni Engagement Grant, that my initiative was able to get the grant, the 25,000 grants, which was last year, to continue running my activities through the country. Then, secondly, I also benefited from the professional development experience. After the Yalei Fellowship, I continued being my PDE at the Brookings Institution, where I was able to write a piece and also be able to contribute towards the African, the Foresight Africa 2019 piece, which is really something which is life changing to me. And I was able to appear on the global writer's page. So as I speak now, I've really have, I have really changed my life. The way I think, the way I look at challenges within the community. Before I went to Yalei, I used to look at every challenge as a threat to my life. And also, I think there's no way I can solve it. But when I went to Yalei and got a lot of experiences from my fellows, and the six weeks training in the universities, I was really able to now get possible measures on how to go with this to find solutions towards this problem. So after returning back from Yalei, I came with more energy compared to the way I went. I went when I was a little bit demoralized. But after being pumped with a lot of knowledge and, and also moral having seen and made several more energetic youth from all over the continent, I was able to think I was able to also realize that I still have the potential to make change in my country, especially to the women and guys. Incredibly powerful, right? I mean, I think that's that's the story that we're all after, right? Thank you for sharing that. Regina, same question. How has Yalei helped you achieve your leadership goals? So I would say I had a very similar experience to my theory. And one of the things that is very pivotal is when I went into the Yalei program, I had just sort of started running my organization. So I started my organization in 2012, and 2013 was really when things kickstarted. And when I went into Yalei, that was 2014. And I would say what we had to do, I was an entrepreneurship track, and we had to come up with a project. And the project that I designed while I was there, and with the help of my other fellows and the team was to set up a coding and human sensor design academy. So essentially, before I went to Yalei, the model that I was running was one that kept moving from place to place. It wasn't really a very sustainable model. And setting up an academy was the next logical step in order to sustain the impact of the work that we're doing. So it was at Yalei that I came up with the idea based on the course and the program that we had. I worked on it and we actually had the opportunity to present the project to venture capitalists. So they helped us work on the business plan, financial management. And then when we did the presentation to venture capitalists, I remember the feedback that I got was the amount of money that I asked for was too small. So I should add more zeros. So that really kind of left me very bold about my idea. And when I came back, it was this business plan, this financial management model that I used to set up the academy. And now we have the academy running in Ghana. And we're looking at scaling our program across Ghana. We've already have a operating in Burkina Faso. And I think the other thing about Yalei, like I said, similar to Naseerah's experience is having that network of fellows, having that community. And also, it sort of pushed me to be bolder in my thinking. So now my level of risk, I think is out the door. I take very bold decisions, even when I'm scared. I still go for it. Because I know like I have the potential and Yalei really helped me find something about myself. Like, there's really nothing that I can do once I put my mind to it. So when I came back, you know, I set up the academy. And now I'm thinking about global, you know, empire. So really, it pivoted me and put me in that mindset of taking over the world, which I'm doing step by step. Powerful. I hear, you know, I've learned how to reframe challenges. I've learned how to build and scale. I really learned how to push the envelope and take more risks. I think I both I heard each of you say, I've been able to fall back onto a really powerful network, which I think is is quite profound. Thank you both. Now, Sally, you've written several books on women's leadership. After hearing some of the obstacles that Regina and Nassar have faced. What advice and key takeaways do you have for women who want to advance in their careers or start a business or community project? Wow, it was very powerful hearing from both of them. And it was also fascinating to see the extent to which it confirmed a lot of the research I've done over the last 30 years into what makes women leaders successful. And I think that too, for me, two big takeaways from what they said, well, first of all, and this is so important, you can't do it alone. You can't really do something big alone. You need those support networks, allies, mentors. You really cannot make serious progress if it's just you. And what I heard both of them talk about was the transformative impact of finding a network that was really able to move them forward in a powerful way and give them the confidence that they needed to do that and the connections and, you know, I've been part of a supported group of people. So that's a very powerful learning from this. And the second, I think, and Gina articulated it so clearly was it's necessary to take risks. It's necessary to take risks. And successful leaders are always those who have a certain degree of boldness, and it can be a boldness in terms of what you're asking for. As was pointed out, it can be a boldness in terms of the amount of money that you believe that your organization really needs to survive and, you know, upping that if it's necessary, getting advice about that. But taking risks, success is rarely built without risks. And and it's so interesting because I often work with habits and behaviors that hold women back. And one is often a reluctance to claim achievements. And I hear people say, I hear women will say to me all the time, all over the world. Well, how can I how can I claim my achievements, but make sure nobody thinks I'm arrogant or make sure nobody, you know, imagines I'm all about me? Well, you know, if your primary quest is managing the opinion of every other person in the room, then you're not going to be able to take a risk. If you're focused on what your goal is and what you want to succeed at, and above all, what you want to contribute. Because remember, achieving great success is a contribution. It's a contribution to the lives of the people around you, to the people who work with you, to the people who work for you, to the next generation to your country and to the world. So going boldly for a big picture success is not making it all about you. It's making it all about the biggest and most impactful contribution you can make. And that's really what I'm hearing here. Powerful words, powerful, powerful words. Sally, here's another question for you. What role can mentors and sponsors or even male allies play in empowering women to be leaders? Well, I think that one of the most important roles they can play is holding them to account for being bold and taking risks, which was exactly the experience we just heard about from Regina in terms of in terms of what the venture capital community did for her. Say, no, these numbers are not sufficient to achieve what you can achieve and need to achieve. So I think recognizing the need to be bold, the need to step up what could get in one's way. And then also facilitating a lot of introductions because, you know, going back to the theme of not being able to do it alone. That's that's really important. I think one of the three biggest changes I've seen in the 30 years I've been working with women leaders around the world is increasing confidence, increasing solidarity, that is with other women in particular, recognizing that, you know, for an interest in bringing younger women along and mentoring them, but also which also which used to be rare at the top, I will tell you that that a lot of senior women, you'd hear from them, you know, I want to be seen as a leader and not a woman and as if it couldn't be both. And so they would stay away from, you know, relationships with other women and are trying to bring these are pretty much over. And then a willingness to and a recognition that we need to reach out to male allies. So I can say the most important things that men can do are encouraging confidence, encouraging boldness, encouraging risk taking and broadening the network and web of support that women can have through targeted introductions and including women in a variety of activities. I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been a truly great discussion. What I'd like to do now is to turn to our viewing groups and allow them to pose questions that we will answer. So let's go to the American Center in Accra, Ghana. What is your question? I have a question. You mentioned your name. Hello. Hello. I have to speak with him. I'm Gloria. I'm Gloria. Nice to meet you. Nice to have you with us. My yes. Pleasure to meet Sally and then a pleasure to hear the last statement you made. You can be a woman and be a leader at the same time. Why should you lose your femininity in the process of meeting? And for Sally, my question is how have you been able to combine the two? Because it's sometimes difficult. But I would like the secret. No working at the moment. So I just to reflect back the question that I think I heard from Gloria, thank you was how do you combine sort of, you know, being a woman and femininity and leadership? How have you been able to combine the two? By keeping my heart open. By listening to people, I think that women often have ability to listen, as well as project manage, as was pointed out. But I think that ability to listen and then bring your empathy into every single situation. But you warmth don't feel that you have to cut that warmth off. That warmth does not undercut you. That warmth gives you your support going forward. So connect when you're with people, connect with your heart. That does not mean ignoring what your head is saying. That's the equally important. But you want to sort of connect with people at a heart level rather than a head level, while always maintaining a degree of objectivity. So I think that that's the balancing or the tuning act that is most helpful. But recognizing that the warmth you project and and your capacity for listening and empathizing is going to be the fundamental rock of your leadership strength. And and that's often true for for men who are highly effective leaders as well. Excellent. Lovely. Wonderful question, Gloria. Gana, we'll stay with you. Do you have a second question? Hi. My name is Zita. And the co founder of a nonprofit organization in Ghana here. The question I want to ask is, how do you manage a small team that is made up of mostly male and just few females? It's I mean, I feel it's kind of intimidating. And it's difficult to get the man to respect you and do what you want. So how are you able to manage that? And get the desired goals for the company that you are leading? Zita, lovely question. What I heard was, how do you manage a mostly male team? When it's very challenging? How about Nacera? I'd love to hear from you first on that, because I know you are leading at a very difficult context. So how do you do it? Thank you very much for the question. It's all about teamwork and also understanding people differently. For example, me in South Sudan, where I work for an NGO, and we're only two women out of 100 people. So we are the only few males out of 100 men. So it's all about understanding and respecting each and every one's view. Otherwise, if you say I'm a woman, let me disrespect the man. There'll be no way you guys will work together. But if you respect and also follow the, let me say, your, like the lines, as a woman, you have to draw your lines, limits. How much should I interact with the men in the workplace and how far should we limit our relationships beyond work? So it's all about creating those limits and then also respecting each other in the workplace. So for example, from my side, right now, as I work with this, let me say the 98 men, if you see us in a team, you'll not understand, you'll not differentiate that this is a man and this is a woman or this is a lady, simply because we understood each other and we respect each other. So gender sensitivity comes with when you have a lot of differences. And when there's stereotype of saying this is a woman and this is a man, but if you have a focus or if you understand your organizational goals and objectives, you guys are aiming at achieving at the end of the day, you end up working as a team. I love it. I love it. Wonderful response there. I think we may even have time for a third question from from Ghana. So might there be a third question in the audience and we'll direct it to perhaps each of our experts? Yeah, come on up. Yeah. No, no. Okay, well, how about Sally, would you like to respond to how could a woman lead in a male dominated context? Yeah, I've had a lot of experience over the years with that. And I think what was just said is really important in that you do want to want to treat everyone with respect. You want to be very clear about setting certain boundaries about what what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't and then be very clear about, you know, setting them and not backing off from them. That's important. Often especially when men are inexperienced in terms of working with women, they'll test and push boundaries. And it's really important to be able to to maintain those in a thoughtful way. And not not particularly defensively either but just, you know, these are this is these are the expectations of the work of the workplace. I think that the other thing is you want to be very clear that you have something to offer them. Because sometimes men are hesitant at having a woman leader or leading their team because they feel that this isn't going to necessarily be of great benefit to their career, great benefit to them in terms of the connections they'll make. They're assuming the woman doesn't have the kind of connections that will be helpful to them. And I've definitely seen have seen some really interesting data from the World Bank about about skepticism about the kind of power that can accrue to you in terms of your career going forward when you work with women. So I think it's really helpful to to be very clear with with your team about what the advantages are. But finally, and this is in terms of goals, the most successful woman that I've ever been exposed to in terms of working effectively with men. A woman here in the US, Francis Hesselbein, who held a variety of CEO positions in in nonprofit sector, she's still working. She's 104 shows up every day at work. And she's remarkably successful. And she always said that the key was managing for the mission, leading for the mission, keeping that focus on what are we trying to do here? What is our objective? And and that's, you know, I just want to confirm, I think that's that's one of the ways you do that. So so lead for the mission. Be as clear about that as you can. Set boundaries in terms of what expectations are around behaviors and and make sure those get get honored. And then, you know, give an indication that this can be really that having that that these men, if they're skeptical, are very lucky to have you as a boss, because you have connections, you may have things to learn from you. And then that can really begin to change the antenna if there are issues because sometimes there are issues. Let's be honest. And it's really important to have the confidence to understand that there ways around that. Sally and Sarah, thank you for your responses to that question across. Thank you for your questions. We have other viewing groups gathered in several other countries, including South Sudan, Cameroon, Liberia, Nigeria, East Wattini, Ethiopia, Mali, Namibia and Central African Republic. I'm very interested to hear what our other viewers who are watching online have to say. So at this point, we're going to open up the floor to a few more questions. A visitor at the US Embassy in Cameroon asks, how do women overcome negative stereotypes like women who go far in their careers won't be able to find a husband? I'm going to stay away from that question and someone else can answer. So how do we avoid that stereotype that women who go far in their careers cannot find a husband? Can I answer? Okay, Nuseera can go. Okay. Those men who say such men who are still inside the box. But otherwise, if you're outside the box now, you should be even more boosting and pushing these women high because a woman like in a family where you're the only breadwinner, you find that you're always stressed as the man. But if you have your woman who is working, you find that the load at home is well balanced. So it's 50 50. So you even stop complaining to your friends that, oh, this woman is really stressed with each and every day because she has her own money to buy food to buy what. So she compliments the man's earnings in the house. And it's it's much of an African thing where if you're over concentrating on your career as a woman, they just say this is not a husband, like a wife material. It's just like a tomboy or somebody something else. So it's all about understanding that woman and knowing what she really wants and also now rally behind her and support her achieve that goal. Otherwise, a woman can still keep up her career and at the same time managing the family affairs. It's not that pursuing a career will damage your family, your capacity or capability to run a family. It's not that way because we even have very many successful women who are still having their stable families. And these ones, they say maybe the women who also not career women, but the families have collapsed. So it's not about a career that a family minister is all about understanding yourselves as a man and a woman. Thank you. Lovely, wonderful, wonderful. Let's we have another question from Judith, who's in the American Space, Joss in Nigeria. Her question is this and I'll direct this one to you, Regina. So her question is, how can women move past verbal abuse when making efforts to sharpen their leadership prowess? How can women move past verbal abuse when making efforts to sharpen their leadership prowess? Regina, so I think the first thing that I say to every woman is you have to develop tough skin, you know, once you are in a position of leadership, especially in a patriarchal society like Africa and whatever space that you find yourself, and you will have people that will always have an opinion on how you are doing things on being a woman, on whether you'll find a husband or whether you are good as a leader. You have to also not let things get to your emotions. I know it's not easy to say, but like Sally said, as a leader you are mission driven. So you stay on the mission. So when people come in with verbal accusations of people, you know, rude, I mean, there are some moments where it can break you. And if you need a moment to go to the bathroom and cry, do it, but don't let them see you break. So say, excuse me, go to the bathroom, cry if you need to come back nice makeup, straight face and keep it going. You know, you really have to stay on mission. And no matter what people say, and people will keep saying all kinds of things, you get it every single day. Sometimes in senses where you feel you should be praised or you should be celebrated, you have, you know, people that come at you, even sometimes beneficiary groups when you work in non for profit work, while you are creating impact in some beneficiary groups, you may even have some of the beneficiary group members coming up with negative feedback. So if you take all that and then you can't move forward, I mean, you will lose focus of your mission. So I always say, take a moment if you need to, but stay on mission like Sally said, don't let it get to you, don't be emotional and don't bend bridges. It's unnecessary. I mean, earlier in my career, I would take things so personal. I was so emotional. If somebody said something to me, I would write down their name in my book. And you know, and be planning insults for them, you know, like, but it's not necessary. There's no need to bend a bridge because you don't know what will happen in the future. So, you know, take it on the chain, just stay focused on your mission, brush it off. I mean, sticks and stones, big bones where to keep coming and you will keep hearing them. So just I mean, take it on the chain and just keep moving. Powerful, powerful. Sally, what might you add to that? Very well said. I would say that is very powerful. And one thing that's important to recognize that I completely agree, you just, you know, have tough skin, but keep your heart open. It's that's the real balancing act there, but but not taking things personally, understanding that this, you know, this person may be at a point in their development where they can't really perceive the importance of what you're doing staying focused on that mission. It's really important. But another thing that's interesting is that people change their views over time if you give them space. And I remember something from early in my own career, I was working in a big corporate environment and I found myself in a meeting with very senior, it was an all male team and they were all seeing me and older, older men. And I remember I had an idea and I expressed, I raised my hand and I expressed it. It was a good idea. And afterwards, as I was walking out, one of the very senior men kind of came up to me, sort of cycled up to me and he said, Boy, you sure aren't shy about sharing your opinions. Very nasty and condescending way. And I don't know what got into me, but I didn't say, oh, I'm sorry, should I not have spoken up? And I didn't say, you know, I certainly am not and I have the right to be. I was completely undefensive and I just said, No, I'm not. And that was it. And I went away and thought, Well, I'm never going anywhere in this company. He's made an enemy of him. But, you know, that's too bad. And, you know, as a couple weeks later, I was in an office and he was in an adjoining office with a colleague. He didn't know I was there. And I heard him say to her, you know, well, you know, one thing I like about Sally is she's not afraid to express her opinions. And I thought, you know, to give people used to get people timed to the idea that you are who you are, don't try to adjust yourself to please to please other people, but don't, you know, just as Regina said, you don't need to react personally. You can just Okay, that's your view. Take that in and keep stepping. I love it. I love it. We have another question from a Yali network member. The question is this, what is one small step I can take to make a difference in the lives of women and girls in my community? What is one small step I can take to make a difference in the lives of women and girls in my community? Who would like to respond? Anyone can start. Okay, so I think the first thing is to clearly understand what are some of the needs of the women and girls in your community? And are you equipped with the skills, the resources, the network to be able to start to make a difference? So don't look at what everybody else is doing or don't look at what seems to be like the popular direction to take. You first ask yourself within the community for the women and girls, what is a great need that they have? And where do my skills come in play? Why does my network come in play? Why do my resources come in play? So even if you have, let's say, five dollars, but you've identified that within your community, they are girls that are not good at like maths in school and would like, you know, somebody to help them to tell them on maths, you know, you can with that five dollars, probably get them to come to a small place, you know, get a few pencils and start, you don't have to start with a very big plan. So just really identify what is the greatest need? What resources do you have? Do you have that network? Maybe you can talk to somebody who can talk to somebody to help you. And that's really how you start. So it doesn't have to be a grand production. Sometimes it's that domino effect. For me, I never imagined that I was going to set up a company and do all the stuff. I just wanted to impact one girl. That was just it. You know, I just said, I just want to change one individual and then it grew from there. So really I identify what are the challenges? What resources, network and skills do you have to be able to solve that problem? Oh, so very helpful. Very, very helpful. We have another question coming in. Alice from South Sudan asks and maybe I'll direct this one to you, Nisero. What can Yali do to reach out to more vulnerable women in rural areas who simply cannot afford internet? I think Yali has already done a lot. What we already have the fellows all across the continent. So we don't need, we don't no need Yali. We already have the network in the fellows. So it's at the fellows as the fellows to now go to rural areas and speak to these women or be able to find out what their challenges are. But now we already have a network. There's nothing more Yali can do. It's as the fellows to continue now reaching out to our rural areas all over the continent. Very helpful. Very helpful. Sally, I've got a question for you. I know we've covered a few of the 12 habits that are covered in your book, How Women Rise. But can you share another top habit that perhaps we have not covered yet? Yeah, I think that, you know, one that's really important and it relates to something Regina said at the beginning is overvaluing expertise. This is very common in women feeling that that their expert, first of all, they always need to prove their expertise in order to earn a seat at the table. And secondly, the idea that as long as they focus on building their expertise, number one, that will lead them to where they position them to where they want to go, because they have the expertise. And so they get, you know, will sort of over focus on that. And sometimes and that often happens as a result of having the kind of experience that Regina had at the beginning, you know, being told that computers aren't for girls, you know, science isn't for girls, math isn't for girls, whatever, and then getting into a situation and on her first test of finding that her results were or subpar. And so that can make you feel that, you know, I've got to prove I'm an expert in every situation. So it's really important to recognize that every great, you know, impactful career is built on three legs. Yes, expertise, skills as was articulated are very important. But so is visibility, your ability to, to represent what you're doing and have an impact, a public impact. And so is the quality of your of your network or your support, and your connections. So a great career is always skills, visibility, and connections. And that's how it's built. So one of the things that I will often work with women is to recognize that those three things have to be kept in balance rather than that endlessly overvaluing expertise because they feel in the past, their expertise has been questioned or challenged and recognized that, you know, there are still those who will challenge it. So it's finding your own path and really being able to, to keep those three imbalances important. Very helpful. Thank you, Sally. Mark from the American Corner and Juba asks, how can women be empowered to deal with inequality when it comes to their involvement in decision making? So how can women be empowered to deal with inequality when it comes to their involvement in decision making? Regina, would you like to respond? Yes. And I'm going to say two things. And the first thing is a little bit about what Sally said in the beginning of first finding allies. So one of the things I realize as I've come along in my leadership journey is there's a very high expectation of women in a certain position to sort of have a magic bullet to solve inequality. Like you're expected as a woman in leadership position to now be the voice. And if you are part of a group there should be no inequality because you are there. But sometimes what happens is that the woman finds herself in a minority in a very powerful situation and where the men have formed networks and allies and she's like the single person. So it's very hard to bring any change in that position. So I think the first thing is the woman must find those allies. You can't do it by yourself. So don't come in thinking as a woman I'm just going to be the lone voice, you know, talking about inequality. It goes nowhere. So find that allies, find people that way you can sort of share that voice. And it's also great when you have men allies because you then preach to the other group. Sometimes women are preaching to the converted other women. So it's very hard. Men can understand. So it's helps when they are also men allies that are also speaking about inequality. But I think also the second most important thing is don't stop speaking about injustices or inequality that you see. Sometimes you feel like your voice is like running out. There's no change happening. It's very easy to give up and say, okay, fine, you know, this is the way things are supposed to be. But no matter how hard it gets, you know, still make sure that you bring up that topic, but make sure that you're doing it with the right allies. And then you'll see that move or that shift. So don't go on it alone. And don't always do it just with females. Get the men to come on board and then you can see much more progress in that regard. Well said. Well said. I think we have another another. I'm sorry, Sally, were you up? No, I was just saying, amen. That's a that's a really powerful response. And when you're in a situation where you're having an impossible time building allies internally, get an external network as well. You know, just don't say I can't make any progress here. Keep that keep that going. Yes. All three of you would know a lot a lot about that and the way that you have led and the change that you have sort of constructed around you. We have another question from a viewer at the U.S. Embassy in Cameroon. And the question is this. How do we deal with childbearing concerns? Employees do not always provide maternity leave. Many women worry that they won't be able to care for their families if they work. So who would like to take that question? How do we deal with childbearing concerns? I'm going to start because I'm a new mother. My daughter is three years old. And honestly, it is my most difficult task to date being a mother and a leader. And I really wonder how women do it when they work in corporate finding time to be able to focus on your child and also focus on work. So I think first we need to start that conversation about maternity leave. It's a it's a very important conversation because even if a woman is present after like in Ghana, it's three months. Even if a woman is present working after three months, she's really thinking about her child. I was in another forum where we had stories of women that would actually bring their children to work with their nanny. One woman had her daughter outside her work and would quickly go and breastfeed. You know, you have instances where women must breastfeed for six months. And then also the emotional and mental toll it takes on your body coming into motherhood, the changes that happens physically. So I think really we should have more of that conversation about how hard it is when you transition into motherhood and the support networks and having that understanding. But on the flip side, as an employer, I also, you know, have the challenge of how am I going to keep paying somebody who is in working, you know, for a period of time and all of that. And I heard some examples of, for example, in Canada, where the state will offer a certain percentage of a woman's salary so she can go on maternity leave for a year. So I think we can look around at what other countries are doing and, you know, figure out what would work. But it's an important conversation to be had. Sometimes you lose your sanity. Like sometimes I'm just like, I need a moment and I'm like, oh, it's very difficult. It's very difficult. So I think it's important that we have that conversation because I mean, we also have to be present in our children's life. And as generations have changed now, more women are working. You don't want the situation whereby we're neglecting that important role or women are choosing not to have children because they are being put in a position to choose career over, you know, having children. So I think we should have that conversation and look at what is working around the world. But it's really something important that we have to figure out. Yeah, that's a powerful conversation. If it's OK, and thank you for sharing your personal story too, with us. If it's OK, I want to raise another question. It looks like this question is for you, Sally. It's from the American Center in Mali. You speak about taking risks, but there are lots of protections for people who take risks in the United States that don't exist elsewhere. Do you have suggestions for how to balance risk taking with managing that risk? Yes, I have some suggestions, but I think, first of all, even though the United States is a very wealthy country, it's also a country that has a very fragile safety net and taking risks here has consequences for people, generally, unless they come from enormous wealth and themselves and are insulated. Risk taking is very difficult in this country. I think, you know, in societies in Europe, it's more protected, but it can be very, very challenging here. And not to sound like I'm repeating myself, but I think that having the well-chosen network of allies is so important in terms of taking risk for a number of reasons. First, you will need to if you're in a situation that has risk involved, you'll need to bounce what you're doing off other people. You'll need to consult with them in terms of of how you can handle a situation. You need to understand your own appetite for risk also as well. There may be points in your life given, you know, what your situation is where you have a greater talent for risk and other times when you have less talent for it. So you want to take your own temperature and not pull yourself into a situation that you actually really can't handle. So you want to take measured risks in an intelligent way and a support network is so important. You know, I'm dealing with that right now. We're having we're facing some real shutdowns here with this virus spread in the United States seriously. And one of the things I found is that all my work has been canceled for the next three months. And that's pretty scary. I'm the primary support in my family and that's gone away. And what makes me not terrified for right now is the support network that I have a couple groups that I'm part of of colleagues that really give me the confidence that I'll have people to consult with about different ways of making up what I'm losing right now and their support in being able to move forward. So that is a very, very important way of mitigating risk and assessing risk and giving you confidence when you're when you're facing times of risk, because it's it's real. And this this this country does not have this worked out. People people here can be very, very vulnerable in terms of the lack of workplace protection that we offer people and we're seeing it right now. So so that's what I'd say is that that adds an element of why it's important and always have a couple people that you consult about risks you're going to take. I often recommend peer coaching because it costs nothing. And it's a very powerful practice having one or two people that you pretty much bounce most any important decision you make off of and who understand who you are and what you have a tolerance for and what you're trying to achieve on a regular basis. And you do the same for them. So it's taking the practice of coaching, which is very beneficial, but putting it with a peer so that you have that fundamental support network. Lovely, thank you. Thank you. It's a serious question. I now have a question for Nassir and Sally. This is coming from Sisei in Ethiopia. And the question is, how can we inspire women to become effective leaders without undermining themselves, especially in situations where men have the wrong perception of women and leadership roles? Nassir, would you like to start? First of all, it's all about understanding the woman you're trying to inspire or to elevate. If you see this woman is having the leadership skills and the leadership mission that she wants to go into, then it's from there that, you know, lift up and build on what she has already to become one of the leaders she wants to be. Otherwise, you can't push a woman who is not motivated to be a leader, to become a leader. So it's first understanding what she needs or what she already wants to be. Then you build up from there. Lovely. Sally, what's your take on that? Thank you, Nassir. Well, I agree with that very strongly because in my view, leadership isn't a position. It's the desire to enact something or make a specific contribution to the world, to a community, to, you know, to a field, to, you know, an aspect of technology, whatever it is. But there's always, for any really effective leader, they have what they want to lead and why they want to lead. It's not just they're pursuing the position of being a leader. So I think understanding what what they're trying to contribute and pushing a leader, if they're not really clear about it, to articulate what it is they want to contribute. I've always said, you know, I've said this for 30 years, I've had the same mission in the world. Help women recognize, articulate and act on their greatest strengths. So once you have a very clear mission like that, you have something to go back to. So I think that's a really important part of what you can do to encourage and bring out the best in a person as a leader is to challenge them on what it is they're actually trying to affect or contribute in the world. Nassara and Sally, thank you both. We have an audience member question. This one is coming from the American Cultural Center in Wenhoek, Namibia. The question is, how can male leaders support women to take up leadership positions? And how can we be sure to include men in conversations about women's empowerment? So two fold. How do we include men in the conversation? And how do we encourage men to support women? Regina, we haven't heard from you in a moment. So how about you start? Okay, so I think I have two approaches. The first one is clearly having them in the room. So what would have been interesting also is if we had accession of men in like this viewing session, and I'm glad to see like you have men online. So just really speaking to decision makers or different men at different positions and having them be part of the conversation from beginning up to the end. The also the other path that I see is also just sometimes putting in a particular system. So when there's always a controversial debate on quota systems, and I'm going to introduce this because I've come to the understanding of a quota system. So previously, I would think and that's the narrative for the quota system is all women get certain positions that they don't deserve because there's a quota system. But what I also realize on the flip side is that without that some women that are deserving of certain positions are not given the opportunity because if the men are the ones deciding who get that position, it's mostly going to be the men. And if you don't put in certain things like this, then there are instances where women don't even get any positions. So I think two ways that is the less controversial way of making sure that men are part of the conversation at every stage from beginning in the middle to the end. And then there are some instances where there needs to be certain policies put in place to encourage but also to get men to recognize talents in the room. So I met this just a last piece. I met this amazing woman in science who serves on several boards in Europe. And she's a very experienced engineer. And one of the things that she shared with me was the only opportunity she got to sit on that board was when her country put in a quota system, allowing a certain percentage of women to be on the board. And then I realized that had that not happened, she would never have gotten on that board, not because she wasn't talented, but because the men are deciding who gets those board positions. So they're going to definitely pick other men. So two ways. So now I am a believer of quota system for deserving women. And in some instances without that women don't get ahead. Powerful, powerful. Here's what I'd love to do. Sally, I know we have just another moment with you. Would you like to take a moment to offer sort of final takeaways or advice for our viewing and listening audiences? Oh, I'd love to. This has been a wonderful session and I have learned so much. And I wanted to say that I really agree with what Regina just said as an American, we're sort of a verse to quotas, but I think that their instance is when it's very effective and important. So as a final words, I'd love to say that the most important thing I think is to is to be able to recognize what your strengths are as a woman and and see how those strengths support what it is you would really like to achieve. And then come up with a way to be very clear to share what those strengths are. And and that will give you on one hand a foundation in yourself so that when you're questioned about, you know, I'm not sure you really belong here or why are you trying to do this, etc. You'll have a very clear answer. You want to have that. You want to be prepared with that. And you you want that inner confidence. It's really, really key to have that. And then once you have that, once you know what it is, skills I bring here, the strengths I bring, here's what I want to contribute. Then you can use that to go about the work of beginning to enlist the allies, the network, the support that you will need to be able to enact that in the world and support you in your own rather bold declarations about it. So it's not just building allies or network for the sake of it. It's also that you want to you want to do that based on what it is you're trying to achieve and contribute. So I think that thinking of it in terms of that way in a very intentional way can be extremely helpful to women. And that's, that's so much of what I've heard here from Regina and Miss Sara. So it has just been a great pleasure and a joy to contribute and and to be part of this Yali conversation. Sally, friend, thank you so much for your time with us, your wisdom and your contribution for decades to this conversation around helping women advance. Thank you. Thank you, Harvey. Thank you to the participants as well. Thank you, Sally. Well, we actually have a few more questions. So Joan from Nairobi, Kenya has a question for Miss Sara. All days are not the same. It's not always sunny. What motivates you to keep going through difficult times? The challenges we face at the same time, the same things we turn into opportunities. So me as a woman, the challenges I experienced, I went through what I turned and became the opportunities that I'm utilizing now. Being as a young girl who grew up throughout, let me say, the refugee life and undergoing through all the hardships and everything, you understand what it means. So whatsoever I faced really gives me a lot of strength and made me understand that there are more people who are also going through hardships more than what I went through. So whatever I go through now is what I utilize to become let me say an opportunity. For instance, having gone for the early fellowship, it was through my initiative that I started way back in 2017. I came up with the initiative because when I came back to my South Sudan, there was no women's football going on in the country, which I saw as something which is really missing for big dads. And then being a former footballer and seeing all other African countries participating in international games and competitions, I realized the girls all the women in South Sudan are looking out. But the challenge was how do you convince the male dominated game in the country to also to be accepted in the like the women came now to be accepted in the country? So what I did was to start a little as a with us few girls and started playing then with the time it kept attracting more men until it got reorganized in the country. So what I mean is start a little with the challenges you're facing, but as the community or as the society keeps appreciating your struggles with time, more people will come into back you up to support you and you turn these challenges and become more opportunities. So as I speak now, we have now two national teams which are already participating in international games, which was something I looked at as a nightmare way back in 2017. But now it's already at reality. So every challenge can be turned into a possibility every time, any time as long as you are determined to change it. Powerful. You are sort of are the epitome of defying odds. What a wonderful response. Thank you. It looks like we have another question from Rochelle who is at the American Culture Center in Wenhoek, Namibia. What is social entrepreneurship and when can it be applied? So maybe Regina, would you like to respond to that? What is social entrepreneurship and when can it be applied? OK, so social entrepreneurship is really a hybrid model between a for-profit and a non-for-profit, but simply put, it's an organization that is able to self-sustain but has social impacts as it's written on investment. So as you would see a traditional NGO, mostly you are able to self you get funds from donors, but a social enterprise has some revenue generation model that is able to self-sustain the enterprise. And so it moves off the traditional NGO where you would have to sort of wait for charity or donors. But within operating a social enterprise, you run it like you would run any for-profit business. But right now, your return on investment is not necessarily profit, but social impact. And I think there was a follow-up to that question. How if you could, there was a second part of the question was what is a social enterprise and what was the next part? I forgot what the next part was. The follow-up was when can it be applied? OK, so if you have an organization whereby your your sole goal is to drive impact, you are one ladder on the social enterprise scale. But then you have to look at your operating model. If your operating model is such that your organization is solely run through donations, through grants, through charity, then and so if your donor population sees to give you funding, you cannot continue doing what you are doing. Then you are typically an NGO to move up to a social enterprise. You would have to find a way to generate some type of revenue within your operations. So be it from the social impact services that you deliver, or be it from another avenue where you are able to gain some revenue. So in instances whereby your donor community stops funding, you still should be able to keep your project running to a certain point. So in order to move from a traditional NGO to a social enterprise, you must operate your business in a way such that, you are able to generate some revenue but also operate in the way that you are able to be self-sustainable in the long run. Lovely, very thorough response. Thank you. We have a question from Imani and Ijaza from the American space in Nairobi, Kenya. When it comes to gender salary disparity, how can we deal with situations when we are offered lower salaries than men and how can we involve men in this conversation to achieve equality? Great question. Yeah. Not an easy answer. Who would like to take it? So let me just start by chipping in. So I think the first thing is as women do research about the roles that you are expecting salary for because one of the things that I even failed to do earlier on in my career is I didn't research about certain roles. So I didn't even know going into the negotiation table, what is the starting point of salary? So in that point, normally what happens is that you are low-balled. You know, women like, there have been several instances, myself included, and other women where they would go into a salary negotiation and the offering or starting salary is lower than what they would give men. So first, do some research. Second, make sure that you are clear about the value that you are bringing to the organization. And third, make sure that as you go into that negotiation, you affirm on the point that you will not go down on. You know, so make sure that you bring in good arguments to really buttress your point. And then we still have to have that conversation about, you know, the gap in gender pay across the world. It's still very unfair. But make sure that you're going into that conversation while research. Also understand, you know, the organization that you're going to work for. Understand what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses and present your salary negotiation in a way that you bring value to add value to their strength such that they are looking at you like, oh, if we give this woman this amount of money, she's definitely going to bring value. And she's clearly articulated that. So go in always knowing that you'll be low-balled. So don't think that when they give you an offer, no matter how generous it sounds, know that, I mean, it is not as high as it could be. Do your research, understand, you know, how high you can go and go in very confident and very articulate on why they should give you what you deserve to take. Very helpful. I would also say if you are leading an organization and enterprise, do the hard thing and commit to pay transparency. It's not easy, but it's possible. And you send a very powerful message to the people who will work with you and for you and alongside you that you are committed to equity, just my two cents. American Space Joss Nigeria asks, how can we address perceptions by men who believe women in power will abuse it or that they are too aggressive? So how can we address those perceptions that men hold that women in power will abuse it or that they are too aggressive? Nessir, would you like to start? I think the only way to break that thought is all about bringing successful women who have been in leadership to speak to these men. That's the only way we can really break that out of their mind. Otherwise, however much we speak, we write, they will never understand that a woman can lead or a woman can never abuse the leadership roles she has been granted unless he doesn't sit from the boss's mouth. I love it. Just to add to what Nessir says, like up till now, my husband keeps getting the question, how are you married to your wife? Does she submit to you? People always ask my husband how he manages a woman like me. And I think, like Nessir said, we should bring women to the conversation. But also, we should start having a conversation about the changing narrative, that where the world is going, women compliment men. And I mean, what you do is not who you are. Just because you're going after your dreams or wants and success, it's a win for both. It brings value also to the family. It brings more money. And a man should be proud of an accomplished woman. A man should look at a woman that has done many things and see it as like my wife has gone places. Plus, so you are bringing something. And I think we should change that narrative as she's not going to beat me or she's not going to listen or whatever, but see it as I am with an accomplished woman. And this also brings value to me as a man because I was able to attract and be with such a woman. So I really think we should have women come into the conversation, but we should also change that narrative and let men see that as a value add and accomplish woman as opposed to a woman that chases her dreams is going to, I don't know, like beat you or give you less food or I don't know, because she now wants to be able to contribute the potential God gave her to the world. Powerful. It looks like we may have time for just another question. How can we encourage women to start their own business or ventures? How can we encourage women to start their own business or ventures? I think the first thing we have to do is understanding what these women want to do. Because you can just start off this business, but you have to first understand what does this woman want to do? What business is she interested in? And what capacity does she have to manage it? If we're able to understand all this, then here we go, we can tell them or give them the necessary capital to start off their businesses. Otherwise, if you push her to do a business that she's not interested in, that business will never grow. Or if we decide and choose a business, but okay, here is this business. Please come and start off from this. She will never dedicate all her time and the energy or the interest in doing that business which will never stand or even grow. So what we have to do is first understand what these women want to do. What businesses can they easily or possibly run? Then from there, we can give them all the necessary support they need to run that business. And just to add on to what Nasiri said, I mean, for me, for a woman that has identified a passion of wanting to start a business, I think the first thing I would say is she should mute that voice that tells her she can't do certain things. Like I think as women, that's one of the challenges that we face, even for myself. And when I wanted to start my business, I kept telling myself what I can do. So instead of outlining what I could do, I had this voice telling me, Regina, you're not confident, you're not bored, you're gonna fail, what will people say, you know? And that held me back. So sometimes you have that voice that self-limits you on what your potential is. So I think if you have the passion to want to start a business, you should, like we talked earlier, be open to taking risks. But the first thing is yourself, you know? Mute that voice that keeps telling you you can't do that. And as you're muting that inner voice, you can go ahead and mute all others that are just holding you back, you know? And then if that is your passion, you go for it. And you just have to do it. Sometimes it takes one foot at a time, you know? And then you see that doors open, windows open, and next thing you know, you know, there are lesser and lesser hurdles as you keep going. Yeah, that's very, very powerful. That self-talk really is powerful. This has been a great discussion. Sadly, we are almost out of time. So what I'd like to do now is turn to our viewing group in Accra, Ghana, to ask one last question. Do you have a final question that you'd love to pose to the Sarah or to Rebekah? And if so, please take the time to do that now. One final question. Well, oh, we do have a question, okay? Yeah, somebody's coming. Okay. Good to be here, nice to see you. Okay, so to quickly ask my question, I know that there are so many women that are trapped in marriages. We know that traditionally when you're married, you are married for good. At the same time, they have dreams and visions and aspirations. A lot of women are trapped in there. Some have died with their dreams. Others are in there, they cannot do anything. What advice do you have for women like this? What should they do? That's a really powerful question. The Sarah, Regina, would either of you like to respond to that question? Sarah, you're welcome to start if you'd like. How do you have the... Yeah, I'm sorry, please. You shouldn't look at marriage as something which has completely buried you off. Marriage is another extension of life, of course. When you get married, don't think that your dream has completely died, or don't completely bury your career in the name of marriage. Marriage is not a limitation to achieving, the achievement of your career, but you as a woman, you should have that... Okay, you should have that goal, or that the motive of saying, I need to continue with my career, or I need to continue doing this business, despite the fact that I have a family, or as a husband now, having your wife in the family, of course, it's already a family. So you have to support each other. So you as a man, you should also support the woman, continue doing what you found her doing before you married her, because you married her when she was already working, for example. So after marrying her, you shouldn't say stop working here, because you're already in the house, you have to be the housewife. Continue encouraging her, but letting her to continue doing her work, or as continue doing her business, because what she was doing was still impacting towards her family welfare, or her relatives, or even the children. So marriage shouldn't be a limitation towards one's career, but instead it should be like an upliftment. It should be something that should also now elevate this woman from where she was, a better position, or to a better level compared to what she was, so that she can also be able to tell the children that, you know, before I got married, I was just like this, but look at me now. I've become a very good leader or an important person now in this society. So we should use marriage as an opportunity to build our careers, or as continue progressing in our business, other than using it as a destruction towards our careers as women. Thank you. Very well said. Unfortunately, we're out of time. So in closing, I would like each of our guests to share one last piece of advice that you have for the viewers. So Regina, we'll start with you. What is one last piece of advice you'd like to offer our listeners and viewers today? So I think my piece of advice, it's very simple, for especially the women is, I mean, I never saw myself as an entrepreneur. I was a very shy, risk averse, you know, young woman who always wanted to follow the rules, and I would always hold myself back. So the first thing I would say is to the women, you are more than what you think you are. And there's nothing impossible. Dreams come true no matter how big they are. And if your dreams don't scare you, then they're not big enough. So don't limit yourself in what you can do, what you think you can accomplish. And I'm a living testimony to the fact that, you know, if you put your mind to something impossible, I mean, it's nothing. Thank you. Very well said, Regina. Nacera, final words. What advice would you offer the listeners and viewers? First of all, to the women, what I would say is we should, they should first put fear behind them, because with the fear, you will do nothing. So if they put fear behind, they'll be able to achieve whatever dreams or whatever goals they are putting for a hand. And to the youth, what I would say is it's high time you remove that fear, because if I could caught the late coffee, and then one say that if you think you're too young to live, then you'll be led for life. So it's high time we start making changes in our communities as young as we are, other than waiting for our, let me say grandparents or our elders to bring the change that we deserve to see or we want to see coming up in that society. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so very much, Tennisera, Regina and Sally for taking the time to be with us and for sharing your insights and expertise. I also wanna thank all of you out there for watching and participating. We hope you found this useful. And finally, a big thank you to all of our viewing groups tuning in from all around the world, and especially those at US Embassy Juba in South Sudan, Martin Luther King Jr. American Center in Accra, Ghana, US Embassy Yaunde in Cameroon, American Center Monrovia Liberia, US Embassy Bangi in Central African Republic, US Embassy Bamako in Mali, American Space Joss in Nigeria, American Space CC Hub in Lagos, Nigeria, US Embassy in East Wattini, American Cultural Center Windhoek, Namibia, American Corner, Walvis Bay, Namibia, Martin Luther King Jr., American Corner, Anguadiva, Namibia, CJC Robinson, American Corner in Addis Ababa at Nala, Ethiopia, American Corner, Jima in Ethiopia, and American Corner, McKeeley, Ethiopia, I'm sorry, and American Corner, Moa University, Kenya. Thank you for joining us for the special Yali 10 virtual program to continue discussions like these and to stay engaged with Yali. Join the Yali network at yali.state.gov, and goodbye from Washington. Thank you.