 All right, welcome to simulation. So pumped for this episode, we are featuring John Chavez of DMT Quest. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me, man. I've been looking forward to this conversation and connecting and just chatting about some interesting things today, right? Potentially the most interesting thing. So the DMT's relationship to metaphysics, to the nature of reality. Yeah, that's an interesting topic for sure. It's something that I think it's been speculated upon for many, many years, even before, you know, some of the more modern scientific endeavors regarding DMT or even ayahuasca have been taking place. The whole concept of even ayahuasca vine, some of the compounds in that being called telepathy really long time ago. Just offers some pretty interesting conversation pieces. It's almost like the crossroads between perception, hallucination and supernormal sort of mysticism. Yep. I have a couple pillars in the trajectory that I'm interested to cover. This metaphysical one we just began with will be great. And then we have a lot of the scientific as well, which I'm really interested in unpacking the healing also along with the awakening. And then these objective biomarkers and then the big sort of funding component to hone in on because that acts as the primary energetic catalyst for the further awakening and healing and activation of the planet. So I would like to, I really like this quote and it actually came from the comments of the documentary. Hide it inside. It is the last place we will look to legend. I love that comment from one of the viewers of the documentary. Yeah. Yeah, when you sort of get to the understanding that you are the source of all creation yourself, you are that, we are the creator, we hide it ourselves in the place that we're not gonna look. And that's inside, which is also becoming aware of awareness, becoming aware of being itself, existing the very nature I am. Yeah, absolutely. And especially learning how to tap into these states that I guess give us less theoretical perspectives of how to alter reality and more direct experience with that sort of thing. I think that's probably one of the more intriguing things that I've come across, I guess in my research for the DMT Quest project was that this is not anything new per se. I think modern science has been studying this in various forms for about a hundred years or whatnot, but obviously indigenous cultures and other sophisticated cultures throughout the world have been studying this thing in their forms of science for thousands, tens of thousands of years. So yeah, absolutely. It's like we're trying to remember some things that maybe cultures from the past had a pretty good grasp of. Yep, and this is also another very popular one. The Kingdom of God is within you, Luke 17, 21. Right, I and my father are one, John 10, 30 or St. Francis of Assisi. That which you seek is that which is seeing or Tatva Masi, you are that your faith is inside you. So the very DMT, the very God, the very source, the very awareness of being the creator of reality, the very nature is inside you, but it's the last place we will look. It's so good. Yeah, and I guess when you look at some of the purported mechanisms with which endogenous DMT could be upregulated it almost seems like it's counter to how society sort of operates in terms of overeating and shallow breathing and a lot of massive electronic blue light usage at night, things of that nature. It almost seems like cultures that were tapping into these altered states without exogenous substances were using basically the opposite of overeating which would be maybe something like fasting and instead of shallow breathing, something like rhythmic breathing and then instead of indulging in electronics and things of that nature to mess up our circadian rhythm and blue light, some of them would even engage in things like prolonged darkness. So yeah, it's interesting when you look at engineering the mystical experience and reverse engineering the mystical experience and then you look at comparing at how the modern lifestyle almost seems to be counted so that it's pretty intriguing. Yeah, those are huge points. This key to unlock matrix, the indigenous habits that you're talking about, fasting from overeating rather than the shallow breathing, the very Wim Hof style, brain breathing, the fasting from technology with the darkness with also eyes closed, more often. And it also seems to very much be this, not only the spirit, but also the remembering molecule. So as we upregulate DMT undergoing these awakening experiences, there's a remembering of ourselves as the infinite and that this is a cameo, an appearance of that infinite. That seems to be so critical as well. The remembering, the game that we play, the endless forgetting and remembering, the hide and seek through the valeless veil, yeah. Absolutely, you know, it's intriguing. I recently wrote a piece regarding a Wim Hof method, breath work, endogenous DMT and potentially addressing Alzheimer's disease in that sort of fashion and going through the biomechanics of this respiration exercise and how it could potentially either halt the progression of AD or even reverse it. And in some of the research that I did regarding that piece, it ties in the fact that the gamma wave that we see that seems to be rather consistent during endogenous DMT states, hypothetically or exogenous DMT ayahuasca states that we've already seen is that for whatever reason, this around 40 Hertz wave seems to correlate with memory retrieval. And in diseases like Alzheimer's, they notice a substantial decrease in the 40 Hertz range, you know, being, I guess, activated in the brain for Alzheimer's patients. So, you know, there's periphery studies indicating that if they upregulate the 40 Hertz gamma range that the memory actually starts to come back. And one of the things that I thought about in this piece because I tend to look at the opposites, because I think you can, when you study one thing, like Alzheimer's disease where memory sort of degradation is like the key aspect of that disease, it almost makes you look at, well, what would be the opposite of Alzheimer's disease? And if gamma Hertz or the gamma oscillation is suppressed during the Alzheimer's state, what happens if gamma is actually upregulated to the fullest? And it's interesting because we're gonna delve right into the esoterics, right from the get-go, is that it seems as though children about five to six years old, that's the point in, at least from what we've studied is that humans have the most upregulation of gamma basically as children. And when you take it, taking concepts of, like you stated, remembering or remembering who we are, for whatever reason, it seems like University of Virginia has compiled a pretty good database of these kids starting to talk about recollections of strange things like past lives. And for me, it kind of makes sense if you look at it from a linear perspective of gamma super suppressed at Alzheimer's and then maybe when we're in our 30s, gamma's somewhere in the middle range where we have pretty good cognition and recollection of things. And then you go even further where the gamma's even further increased potentially in Dawson's DMT is even, I guess, more upregulated during these states of kids remembering, it's almost like an overshoot of remembering something that didn't even occur in this lifetime. So it affords some really intriguing conversations, man, I'm sorry if we're kind of going off course right now. It's great. That's perfect. The entire idea of what's happening with children as their birth to have them know themselves as the source of creation, being mission critical to ensure that the egoic onion layers of conditioning don't form and then it perpetuates suffering and a level in society. So this is mission critical and also the component of hiding highest gamma at that age also is so fascinating because that's why as an adult, when you reunite with the nature of reality, truly the well of honey and peace that was covered by the egoic rock that what happens is you feel this causeless joy and so you get this like Satya Dhananda sort of bliss, peace, happiness and you bring that to everything you do. And so it's almost like maybe the adult as they unlock the inner child again feels those higher potential gamma activations and there might even be an upregulation of DMT when there's a natural awakening in general just the natural process of reuniting with this is already freedom, this is already perfection. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's a great point. And I mean, it's interesting, right? Cause when we see the exogenous DMT studies with ayahuasca and DMT the gamma upregulation is pretty consistent and similarly not all the time but I've heard many anecdotes of people being able to recall or they could have sworn that they experienced a recollection of a past life during that psychedelic experience. So it's a complicated situation but it's intriguing nonetheless. The very nature of this one makes me also very excited because we've had a multi-thousand years mystic traditions pointing at how to recognize oneself as the source of creation and that over the past couple hundred years spirituality and science have been doing their best to, there have been some oscillations outward but now is the big oscillation inward to unite. And so one of these keys potentially in the synthesis of science of spirituality is DMT. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, after Rick Strassman released his book following his study in the 1990s administering intravenous DMT to the subjects and people reporting consistent mystical experiences from the ingestion, from the administration it really kind of spurred that movement. You gotta give a lot of credit to Strassman if you haven't read his book he went through a lot of administrative hell just getting his study off. So a big shout out to Strassman for getting that done and that took place in the 90s. His book was published in 2000 and then in 2010 DMT the spirit molecule the documentary came out which a lot of people saw Joe Rogan was the host of that documentary and that caused the conversation to go even further into mainstream culture of people just speculating on DMT and what its role is in the human body. Up until that point there had been studies showing that DMT endogenous DMT was found throughout the body cerebral spinal fluid and certain tissues things like that, but the pineal gland study that they did at the University of Michigan that didn't come out till 2013 and that really spurred even more interest into definitively I guess finding evidence for what Strassman had hypothesized in his book that the pineal gland was a source not necessarily the only source of DMT in the brain. Obviously this was done in animal studies because to do this in a human is a little bit overly invasive and dangerous and probably wouldn't get whatever approval by whatever governing body in the medical field. And then in 2019 this is what the documentary the DMT Quest documentary was focused on was the University of Michigan study where they found that DMT is produced not only in the pineal gland but throughout the corid plexus and the cerebral cortex of not only just live animals but in vitro tissue sampling also found the necessary precursor enzymes to find DMT throughout the brain. So that changed the whole conversation of whether the pineal gland was the only source of DMT in the brain and whether the brain was even capable of producing enough DMT to induce an experience because we found that DMT was found throughout the brain and the second important aspect of that 2019 study from Michigan was that DMT is actually floating around in the extracellular fluid of live animals at similar levels to serotonin and dopamine and just to stay consistent in terms of scientific analysis. What people seem to kind of veer off course in the debate about endogenous DMT is that we use these animal models because the human studies would be too invasive but for whatever reason sometimes when it comes to DMT people seem to veer off course and forget that these animal models are very consistent with human physiology and like to say that it's only animal studies in which this stuff has been proven but based on the anatomical similarities and the genetic similarities it seems very clear that these studies should translate to human neuroanatomy and neurochemical balance as well. The funding for the continued scientific research leads to really this that we're trying to bridge the profound subjective experience of these awakened very seemingly upregulated DMT states with objective biomarkers and this is really the exciting place because if you can go where in a sense neurology meets union this has also been described for thousands of years by the mystics is shut your noisy mind up and if you stop ruminating in the past and the future with all these cravings and aversions and if you become aware that it's like the clouds appearing and disappearing inside of the very empty formless sky that is the witness, the observer, the awareness itself if you become really subtle and aware of that you can then unite more and more with the freedom and the perfection of you being the very source of creation itself of all of this infinite creation and you being the very source and the witness to it and then there's also the calling aspect to it which is great, which is that when you silence yourself and still yourself enough you can also access your divine transcendent North Star calling noble aim and unite with that more and more purely and then bring that forth into reality in a pure service to creation rather than being in a service to one of your egoic onion layers and as John also mentioned that it's really interesting seeing the pineal gland, the coroid plexus, the cerebral spinal fluid. There's a lot of these really interesting the cerebral cortex. There's a lot of these really interesting zones of objective biomarker research and another core component is to do it noninvasively. That's another massive core component. So the faster that we can fund the science to do these objective biomarkers noninvasively the more quickly we can get the synthesis of science and spirituality with DMT and this is also very clear in the mystic traditions as well as what seems to be indicated with the Wim Hof method and whatnot, which is that you're very active just slowing down and consciously breathing itself. And as has been taught in the mystic tradition with this Kundalini, the very energy being drawn up the spine, that cerebral spinal fluid, it really feels like this profound activation to potentially have this objective biomarker of the upregulation of DMT. Oh, and that's this also image which we had sort of prepped to which is really exciting from the DMT Quest documentary which is the objective science behind the gamma activation during the Wim Hof method. Yeah, that was pretty exciting. And just to be honest, we actually started to film the second episode already in which we take more subjects do the Wim Hof method 20 minutes and we do the same brain mapping because science, a lot of it is based on replication. So that's really what we're, we did a one person palette study for the first film and then for the second film we're gonna be adding in all the data from the second study that's gonna be more definitive because we have more subjects. But yeah, the whole gamma wave upregulation is intriguing because it affords the discussion of not just, I guess the super normal visionary mystical states connection with higher self type of discussion but it also affords a more grounded perspective of addressing neurological deficiencies with the gamma wave, something like Alzheimer's. So I think that, yeah, the gamma wave is necessary because from what I, my perspective of endogenous DMT is that as of right now it's the most likely to be a non-invasive way to present the upregulation of endogenous DMT in the brain. I mean, it's not a 1000%, I guess tightened up in the sense of we don't have the animal studies to verify whether the DMT deficient animals actually have suppressed gamma wave and things of that nature to tie it in, in a lock tight scientific method but I think it's a good starting point and I think that's the way that science tends to start is that you have to have a rational sort of foundation and perspective of how to present something and then you build upon and you develop more studies that will either prove or disprove the theories and that's kind of where we're at right now. Like you mentioned the non-invasive measurement of endogenous DMT and even periphery hormones like endogenous 5MEO DMT is gonna be super important going forward. The non-invasive aspects would be utilized for human studies which is something that we can't do right now with the human brain and measuring DMT but if that could be developed, if Dr. John Dean gets the funding that he needs to go ahead and continue his course and his mission to go ahead and develop that technology then I think in a few years we're gonna see some intriguing ways to I guess intertwine these sort of conversations and the data. Yes. So this is fair to say that the gamma activation may be the easiest non-invasive objective biomarker. Well, if you wanna just take it from just surface level analysis. Yes. Where, you know, ayahuasca one of the consistent things with ayahuasca I believe there's three or four studies showing that ayahuasca suppresses alpha significantly suppresses alpha wave significantly and up regulates gamma wave significantly and then there's two DMT studies showcasing that after administration of DMT or smoking DMT that same thing alpha gets suppressed and gamma goes up. And in the most recent DMT EEG study it seemed as though the strength of the alpha or the strength of the gamma wave oscillation increase was directly tied in with the intensity of the visionary experience from DMT. So if we wanna look at it just from that perspective of the exogenous effect, the effects of exogenous DMT and ayahuasca on the brain and translate that into potentially endogenous DMT up regulation then I think it's a pretty decent starting point the gamma wave for non-invasive correlation with endogenous DMT. I think it's a pretty good start. Hell yeah. Especially because we already have the EEG technology so refined over the last couple of decades and especially because we already have this popularization of the Wim Hof method or the popularization of the monks as well where we can actually take this systematically reproducibly, scientifically, methodologically and do it repeatedly until we have in essence until we basically have this showing up repeatedly and then it's like, okay, so gamma activation is one of the greatest non-invasive objective biomarkers and then we can maybe wander ourselves into, okay, well, how about we do things like how do we specifically measure non-invasive up regulation of DMT itself? And so yeah, where do you feel like that might happen? Well, in speaking with John Dean, he was featured in the first documentary, it'll take some time, it'll take a year or two or maybe a few years, obviously based on the funding, the more funding, the quicker the results but it would be a magnetic-based sort of measurement. I don't wanna go into the specifics because first off, I can't explain it properly and secondly, it's John Dean's project so I don't really wanna get into exactly what he's working on but yeah, that would be a game changer. I think that would be a really good look for endogenous DMT research, especially pertaining to humans and from what I've spoken with him about is that it seems as though he can get very specific so it wouldn't just be endogenous DMT measurement, it would even be maybe endogenous 5MEO DMT, maybe endogenous bufodenine which is another form of DMT and not to forget about the fact that the body produces or the human nervous system actually produces endogenous monamine oxidase inhibitors as well. So when people talk about ayahuasca and the reason why we have such an extensive experience taking ayahuasca over hours rather than minutes like DMT is because there's monamine oxidase inhibitors in the shamanic group and that's why it's interesting that the human body actually produces multiple kinds of monamine oxidase inhibitors, tribulin, neurocaten, penylene and I think Harman or Harman are other ones so it's multiple kinds. We have a very complex endowasca soup within us and I think that adds even more evidence that the mammalian system and the human system in particular are, I just happen to believe there's a reason why we have this complex soup within us that can induce these sort of mystical spiritual experiences. Oh yeah, so it may be that our union with God, right? The word entheogen means unleashing God within, unleashing the divine within versus psychedelic meaning mind manifesting. It's just not as accurate of a describer as entheogen. Entheogen is a better describer for what these incredible substances do. And so let's say that, you are a, one of the listeners, let's say, is in a process of wondering, why did I incarnate? What is my purpose here? And so then the way to identify the answer to that is to calm down the noisy mind like we talked about before. And to leverage, so that's the shut up piece, and then to activate where neurology meets union with God, unleashing God within. The diamond that's already around your neck but that your mind is too loud and you can't tap into that well of honey, of peace and joy and your calling, your divine calling, your union with God, what you're here to do, what you came here to do. How you came here to be in service. And so I think this is a fascinating place is the union, whether it's, you know, pineal, choroid, plexus, cerebral cortex, just the very, the gamma activation, the up-regulation of DMT, the very meeting place of neurology with God, with your calling. How do you feel about that? Yeah, you know, one of the interesting things that I've come across is that while we mentioned the gamma activation, which seems to be a faster oscillation, there seems to be a relationship between inducing slow wave, which is like calmness, like a theta or a delta wave. Delta wave is actually seen more predominantly during sleep states or non-rem sleep states. There seems to be almost like a coupling between the slow wave and the fast wave we see like a synergy between both. And like you said, once we calm the mind, we quiet the mind. It allows us to go ahead and tap into higher insights and God if you will. And it seems as though it's almost like a rubber band. So you pull the rubber band like deeper into the calmness and the quiet and then it just snaps. And that's when we have our moments, you know, our insightful moments, our transcendental moments. And yeah, there seems to be some magic there. And at the same time, there's different ways to access supernormal states, right? I mean, there's been reports of people like soldiers on the battlefield having out-of-body experiences and there's no calmness in the battlefield. It's all pure chaos and trauma. So there's, I guess, what I'm getting at is that there's different pathways to having these mystical experiences. And it seems as though, you know, if we want to go about it in a certain manner of cultivating ourselves in a peaceful manner, then we could do it through quieting the mind, quieting ourselves, getting into our breath and connecting with a higher self. But, you know, there's also the other traumatic pathways that can be induced to have mystical experiences as well. You know, I'd be curious about your thoughts about this one as well. So in essence, using breath, whether it's Wim Hof method or whether what we were talking about earlier with mysticism just becoming aware of oneself as the very source of creation, the source of awareness and being itself, tapping into that calling, the North Star, the undergoing the process of purifying itself away from the distorted ego identities of the onion layer and more and more towards being a pure service to the creation and the agents unleashing the divine within, potentially all of this being the neural signatures of divinity. So whether that be an endogenous uptake in D&T and upregulation in D&T and also serotonin, dopamine, but just the simple idea that are there these profound objective biomarkers, these neural signatures of divinity and how can we match them with these spiritual yoga, union, mysticism, genosis, Wim Hof method, breath work, calling work, all the stuff that Tony Robbins and Jordan Peterson and Gary Vaynerchuk talk about with self-actualization. Yeah, there definitely seems to be a lot of overlap at least in my research. I mean, there is a significant shift from baseline. So everybody has, you know, their baseline of, you know, you're talking, you're active, you're driving to work, you're at work or whatever. So that's kind of like our general normal societal baseline and then you have, you know, the brain activity that takes place outside of baseline. Sometimes, you know, people would say that's like right when you wake up in the morning or right before you go to sleep, that's the most consistent altered state that people get in if they don't have a practice like meditation or breath work or anything like that. It's right before you go to sleep or right after you wake up, you're almost in the in-between state. And it's interesting because it seems as though a lot of magic happens in those in-between states outside of baseline. And that's part of tapping into the magic of life, I think. That's why I mean a lot of my research is in regards to all altered states, not just Wim Hof Method, but things like hypnosis, things like meditation, yoga, sensory deprivation, light stimulation, magnetic stimulation, they all have been observed to induce mystical states because they take us outside of our baseline consciousness, right? Our baseline consciousness is the predominant consciousness in which much a society likes to operate on. But it might not be our optimal brain activity. It might not be optimized. Yeah, I love how you added sensory deprivation. There's lucid dreaming. There's sound bathing, nature therapy, light stimulation. There's all of these different sort of experience designs that are emerging out of the matrix that are trying to elevate people out of the matrix slowly. And that's really, a lot of it is about finding also these... It's kind of funny because when you look at the way that spirituality for thousands of years is like, hey, you know, nature therapy, go walk around in some trees and calm down the noisy mind and calm yourself out of your nine to five doing what you're doing. And then science like 10 years ago is like, well, let's go ahead and do some scientific studies around decreased cortisol levels from people that go and walk into the forest. And it's like, yeah, this shit's so crystal clear already, but yeah, go ahead, Johnny, come lately, Mr. Science. Go ahead and come and validate. Yeah, I mean, that's really... That's what I'm saying, it's almost like we're remembering where we came from or what we used to know pretty much at the forefront of society in the past, cultures from the past. And the whole nature aspect is pretty intriguing to me because I don't know if you're pretty familiar with the whole Fibonacci sequence and the whole Fibonacci sort of aspect of nature. I think the Fibonacci is actually almost a hypnotic within itself if you stare at something with that pattern in it. And so part of me wonders if just being around nature, you're around all these plants that have the Fibonacci sequence pretty much everywhere and it's almost like you're looking at... Your subconscious is looking at hypnotic pinwheels, all over the place and that just calms you in a subconscious autonomic way. But yeah, there's so much to parse out the ways that we can induce altered states and calm ourselves in order to reach higher states of consciousness. When I look at this, what do I see? I see myself. Yeah, it's like an infinite pattern, right? Yeah. Welcome to... Yeah. Yeah. Or also another one of our really close friends over at Maths Town. You know, this is their work, right? Mmm. You know, in essence, we're doing it again. Yeah. You know, that... The Benoit Mandelbrot Infinite Fractal Zoom is this, which is, as John was just mentioning, the golden ratio of the Fibonacci sequence. So when you basically begin, in a sense, jumping between these patterns, and you're like, okay, that is this, which is infinite creation. And we are that, which is the source of infinite creation. It's just so simple. And the more that you connect with that truth that is already inside of you, the more you get these potential objective neural signatures of divinity, which we can measure scientifically. Let's fund that. But also, you just literally feel like truth. You feel like God. You feel like peace. You feel like joy. You emanate out like the sun. Enlightenment. Yeah. No, absolutely. I'm with you 100%. You know, one of the things that I like to bring up is that while, you know, DMT Quest is largely about obviously the molecule and the reason for, you know, the cluster of molecules like DMT5, all the MAOIs in the body. There's also the concept of consciousness being more akin to magnetic field. I think fellow's name was Joe McFadden who has written a theoretical piece about this last year that was pretty fascinating. And then you have Michael Persinger and Todd Murphy doing interesting work with the ultra-weak magnetic field simulation on the brain. And that, you know, that's one of the interesting things to talk about the EEG data is that you're referring to electrophysiology of the brain during these altered states and that correlates with, you know, electricity and magnetism, you know, are pretty much hand-in-hand. You can't have one discussion without the other. So when you start to discuss things like magnetic fields, then you start to discuss the possibility if consciousness is tied in with the magnetic field, then you have the natural discussion that goes into the potentiality for consciousness expanding past the physical body because, you know, our magnetic field can expand past our physical body. And, you know, for any of you who have doubts about that, I mean, look at the MEG device that measures the magnetic fields of the brain. And it doesn't even touch the scalp. Obviously, it's close to the scalp, but it doesn't touch the scalp. So the question, it's not a question of whether our magnetic field of our body can extend past our physical body. The question is how far, in terms of distance, can it expand past our physical body? Can we influence something objectively past our physical body? And at what strength could that occur? So, yeah, there's so many layers of discussion taking place, and I think they're leading to some really interesting insights, for sure. Yeah, this is a really profound one on these neural signatures regarding the electromagnetic fields. There seems to be more and more developing scientifically as well, which is really exciting. Also, the HeartMath Institute is also doing really interesting work with the toriodal field itself when you have greater coherence versus when you have the dissonance, which is another interesting biomarker. Would you say, I'm curious, would you say that the main biomarkers right now are, we mentioned already using EEG for gamma activation is one of the main ones. And that's also been done with meditators and yogis as well and people using entheogens, et cetera. We've also seen symmetry and coherence be another word that is used rather than dissonance for valence, for like a state of being. Then another good one, which I saw you guys also talked about a little bit in the documentary as well, was heart rate, heart variability is another good one in terms of when you have a heart rate variability that is greater, it means you're less stressed, whereas when your heart rate variability is lower, it means you're more stressed. You're more relaxed when your heart rate variability is higher. That's another potentially interesting one. So what would you say are the main ones that we should be looking at funding and doing scientific research as these neural signatures of divinity? I think all of them, I think all of them that you mentioned are important. Obviously I think the animal studies at the University of Michigan are important in terms of solidifying the physical non-debatable aspects of those neurological components. When it comes to human studies, I think heart rate variability in connection with alterations in one's oscillation signatures, like the gamma wave or the theta wave or the coupling of those, I think those are important. Even different ways to measure, I guess brain activity can be utilized. MEG might be an interesting one, but there's so much overlap with the EEG that might not be necessary based on cost. Obviously the one that Dean's going to be working on. In terms of human studies, I think that's just our foundational aspect because we can go deeper into using different types of equipment to present a picture, but I think if you can't solidify the basics first and your foundation first, then you're just going to be scattered all over the place. I think the gamma wave and the EEG stuff is a pretty decent starting point. Then you can add in the heart rate variability stuff as well. Yeah, cool. For those interested, it's written right there for gamma activation, fMRI, EEG, for heart rate variability, EKG. Tapping into those tools that exist now and also the idea of using these for these neural correlates of divinity as well as the building new tools themselves that have yet to be discovered that enable to do things like very easily provide us with these objective biomarkers. What do you also think about, for example, we had Rupert Spira on the show last year and his answer to when I was talking to him about these objective biomarkers of awakening was that we can look more towards the causeless joy and imperturbable peace being an embodied realized state rather than brain scans. We see the argument for both coming together, but curious how you feel about even just the alignment to the subjective itself being such a priority. Well, I think both would be necessary and it wouldn't be cost prohibitive to do both. So you might as well, but I think absolutely I think that internal sort of effect is important to see if there's any sort of changes in the sense of people that don't have that sort of divinity within them during those experiences. I mean obviously right now we're talking about the naturally cultivated aspect of endogenous DMT but there's also the people that have traumatic experiences from taking DMT as we saw in Rick Strassman's trial not everybody had a positive experience. It would be interesting to compare the changes in the subjective experience along with the EEG scans and then compare it to other people that have really good experiences. Yeah, I think Spear is on point with that because I think that just discarding the subjective is a bit silly. I mean I think science can go a little too far where it's like everything subjective needs to be thrown out and we can only look at objective measurements. I think that we're forgetting that this is the human experience. The human experience is first and foremost the subjective experience is first and foremost and we're trying to parse out some of the mechanics of the subjective experience with the objective measurements but we can't put the objective first. That's a really good way to put it. So basically do the activities that quiet your mind that bring you more and more into the well of peace and joy that is already within you connecting to divinity subjectively and as you do that naturally we will also create the tools and objective biomarkers that measure that. So don't wait for the objective biomarkers to get really good before saying okay now I'm ready to do these practices so don't jump to that. Yeah, you know one of the interesting things I mean a lot of people look at the Wim Hof from like a purely objective physical process like the cold showers and the cold exposure are good for alleviating inflammation and things of that nature. But there's the other aspect of the cold in which it's so uncomfortable that it forces you to focus. Your mind isn't wandering. You're not thinking about what you got to do two hours from now or whatever stress you had from last week the cold is so uncomfortable for most people that the mind has to have a singular focus and that within itself can be very transformative to people that have a really busy mind. So it kind of forces you in a mechanical way via that cold exposure to really quiet down and hone in into that inner peace if you can find it and if you can overcome the initial shock. It's interesting how there's different perspectives different angles of looking at the same exact thing. Yes. So this is on DMTquest.org so the link for this is in the bio as well as the DMTquest documentary. And this is under the about and then future research. And so you can see that the focus on endogenous DMT research is main priority in several, several ways and just like 10 plus ways of diving into this at a deeper level. I mean, there's so much to do here and the only thing holding back is really the funding and oh my gosh we're up to 30. You guys are nuts. You've really identified all of the different science. I mean, that's just a start too. It's going to sprout off into so many other things, right? I mean, and the real vision too is to develop well produced documentaries to go along with all the studies so they can be sort of presented in layman's terms. So the general public can better digest the data and understand the implications and maybe we could even add in little tips and how to tap into these things. I don't want to just be solely research based. There needs to be a media component and a marketing component to it all. So it has the impact on society that it needs because I'm sure that you've seen just like I have, you've seen like this amazing science that takes place and then the media doesn't cover it and there's no documentary on it. So it kind of just sits by the wayside. I'm not trying to let that happen for a topic like this. I think it's too important the implications are too massive to not make sure that it gets out into the public sphere. Such a beautiful way to put it is really bringing together the media component with the scientific spiritual research components and merging those because we're here in Los Angeles. The show is, the studio is and one of the best North Stars for us here is to really weave in the realizations from spirituality and science into Hollywood. The whole idea of leveraging the clout and the influence that Hollywood has to bring awakening to the matrix. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's time. I think it's been a long time coming. I've seen a lot of people over the past decade or so have these spontaneous awakenings of sorts and the certain awareness that you wouldn't expect from certain people and I feel as though it's even a time for applicability of alleviating disease. So I think it's multi-prong. I think it's important to remember that spirituality is a component of it but I think that we can intertwine functionality that will drive interest from people that might not necessarily have spirituality at the forefront of their minds but they do have a loved one who is suffering from some sort of illness that this research could possibly help reverse or alleviate. Yeah, our friends over at MAPS we've had Rick Doblin on the show several times. Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies. What you see repeatedly now is the leveraging entheogens for healing anxiety, depression, PTSD for healing addiction for helping end of life just you'll never get to the end of all of the different ways that the both use of the exogenous substances that create the endogenous upregulation that then creates the union with divinity and also the sort of Wim Hof method style techniques of endogenous creation of setup regulation for those activations of divinity and so you will never come to the end of all these ways to sort of like cut and dice up the ways of science to synthesize of spirituality and to activate these higher states but media really does the sort of like perceptual shift component of it which is so critical to sort of get somebody to go after they watch DMT Quest to basically go well wow the little did I know that we actually have some scientific biomarkers around spiritual awakening and that's and it's not only spiritual awakening to recognizing yourself as the source of infinite creation but it's also recognizing on a awakening side that I have a divine transcendent purpose a north star of why I'm here and to align myself with that that's the self-actualization side along with the self-realization side which are ultimately two sides of the same coin so there's huge practicality and utility with this yeah absolutely and the thing is people need to remember not every mystical experience is going to be full blown interaction with beings or the higher power or words you know you're going to be hearing voices or things of that nature they can be a little bit more subtle so I think part of it is quieting the mind and quieting the lifestyle in certain aspects to realize when these signs are coming to you you know I think that's kind of one thing it's almost like bringing us back to our intuition I think that for whatever reason society has kind of trying to I wouldn't say on purpose but it's just a byproduct of which societies these days is that it kind of has ripped people away from their own intuition their inner knowing their inner self their inner confidence and part of these practices help to realign oneself with you know greater intuition because I think that comes from higher self is intuition I think that's important but there's so much will and choice and sovereignty that is frozen in the matrix scripts and algorithms and slowly as you unfreeze that will you gain more and more spiritual mass and you connect to this higher self and this intuition that channels through that then acts as this guidance in your life yeah absolutely yeah one of the things I wanted to mention real quick was you know Thomas Edison he's one of the most I guess one of the most well known inventors of somewhat modern history is that he actually actively use altered states to tap in to abilities to I guess come up with solutions that he couldn't come in couldn't come up with in his normal baseline consciousness and a lot of people are really aware of that so he had a method to induce hypnagogia in which he would sit in a chair, a rocking chair and kind of just rock back and forth until he fell asleep but he would passively focus on an issue that he was having problems solving and he would hold like two heavy metal balls almost like shot puts and basically he would just rock back and forth until he fell asleep and then the balls would fall on the ground and then they would create a big thud that would wake him up and in many cases he reported that at that moment when he heard the thud that he would have the solution to his problem that he couldn't get during his normal waking consciousness so you know for people looking for applicability or people that known people that have utilized altered states of consciousness in a tangible manner that's just like one example but there's been many luminaries of the past that have been documented to utilize altered states to tap into you know higher abilities I adore that story so much it's one of my favorites I love that one yeah the analysis of this meta pattern of the most genius people that have ever lived is that they very very frequently have used these sort of life hacks or bio hacks to access these states of divinity and creativity and that you almost have to this source of infinite creation leverages this design where we contract our energy into this very finite egoic sense of being and then we have to have the reality designed this way you have to have a process of hiding you can't just birth and know everything and so because of that you have this mechanism and then over time you relax and expand that contracted energy and then you gain more access to creativity and you gain more access to innovation and you gain more access to this higher self and to knowing yourself as just a cameo an appearance of eternity of infinity and blessing the very nature of your own love story and like really radically loving and accepting yourself truly every one of your 30 trillion cells are divine and to especially when you undergo the use of the substances that upregulate these neural correlates of divinity what happens is you are revealed like a rocket that you are divine this is divine yeah now that makes a lot of sense that it wouldn't be fair for us to remember everything from birth and just keep that on what would be the challenge in that right there's a reason why we incarnate on earth and I feel like it's a challenging level of I guess evolution spiritual evolution that's really what it's about at least that's just my perception of everything that I've read and things that I feel in my core I feel like that's what this level is about it's about overcoming the many challenges that we will face when incarnated in this vessel in this lifetime and one of the other things I wanted to touch upon was the fact that back to the whole consciousness coinciding with maybe a magnetic field at its foundation there are concepts like like terminal lucidity at the time of death so you'll have somebody with Alzheimer's in which their brain is essentially very atrophied so it's very disconnected and very shrunken and during terminal lucidity a person will not be able to remember anything about their family or their loved ones for many years possibly and then in the days or minutes leading up to their time of transition then they magically remember everything very lucidly, very clearly and it seems pretty evident that it's not as if their brain was able to regenerate the neurons or regenerate all the neural pathways within that last hour of death right so it's not like the brain was able to open up and then it was able to find the information within the brain so there lies a possibility that at moment of death or during this terminal lucidity that the brain is able to kind of generate a certain electrical oscillation that will couple with the magnetic field to go ahead and recall some of these things you know recall some of the aspects of their life in a very lucid manner so it's just another thing to think about you know when we're talking about you know connecting the divine, our consciousness, magnetic fields, our electrophysiology our biochemical fluctuations these are all things that are taking place all at the same time just at different layers so it's just you know a method of looking at the human experience and physiology that's kind of helped me I feel like kind of get a certain perspective to better understand these strange occurrences yep and in the documentary you guys referenced it as the life review as well so like terminal lucidity is also kind of like what is going on that sort of creates this very NDE style white or slight life review beauty and that's just such a well component to it yeah it's amazing it's amazing this stuff is taking place on a rather consistent basis if you see the surveys especially with nurses not so much with doctors it's probably because they're more reserved than what they can talk about but you know if you look at the surveys of nurses talking about end of life transpiration it seems to be very consistent so there's probably something there that's the thing with I guess my perspective of science is if there's a consistency in something there's probably some aspect of reality that it's meant for that and we don't really hasn't really been tied in with mainstream conversation of transitions and things like that but it doesn't mean it's not real it just needs to be woven into the narrative it could potentially be thought of as the the life review as the sort of giving everything back to source giving everything back to Shunya to the void, to the emptiness and then getting ready for what is the next forgetting and remembering experience to come in service of infinite creation yeah that's definitely possible I think that's probably going to be the science of the future is in terms of mapping that stuff out and actually interacting with the other side I think that's and I don't know how far away that is to be quite honest I think that we have some futuristic thinkers we've been corresponding with so you never know maybe within the next decade we're going to have the next level of science which is interacting with the less physical I wouldn't say the non-physical but the less physical this is a revolution that's coming this decade and the next decade it's the synthesis of science of spirituality another way to think about it it's the synthesis of infinity and infinity so the infinity is the scientific methodological study of the form of this creation and then the infinity is this metaphysical this is the very source of infinite creation that we create as also these witnesses these observers this consciousness is awareness to undergo said process of being just like the dreams the dream analogy is such a salient analogy you go and dream at night when you dream at night you simulate out the observer and the reality and then what happens is there's no separation where's the separation between the tree and the house and the person and you as the observer there's no separation and so very similarly with this we are the manifestation of this creation in its separational ability it's the same seer god looking through your eyes as it is through mine and that's what's meant by this all inclusive awareness all 8 billion of these units having the same in all inclusive shared eternal awareness watching infinite creation of our own manifestation this is what's probably going to be with the next couple of decades is like how do we create the synthesis of science of spirituality and tell this narrative and created in VR pedagogy as well these types of things so yeah that's an amazing time to be alive or to be you know on this side in terms of the earth and human history and things of that nature I think that there's no more exciting time especially if you want to get involved in these sort of discussions and moving the needle and pushing things along I think you know your whole audience is part of that movement so I'm just happy to be able to chat with you about it and just spread the word about you know things that are going on one of the theories that I presented I was going to present it at Terrence McKenna's death anniversary last year Dennis had asked me to present there was a we're undergoing a pull shift this has been this is like mainstream sort of reporting CNN, Fox, NBC we've all been reporting about this pull shift that's been going on over the past I believe five or six years and it's only accelerating so what happens when there's a pull shift the magnetic field of the earth changes it's actually weakening and these fluctuations in the magnetic field of the earth they have they can have an effect on consciousness and while we're not walking around you know on a psychedelic experience like a full blown psychedelic experience completely there is the possibility that we are having our consciousness altered and that this pull shift and the earth's magnetic field changes is coinciding with the awakening that's taking place right now at least that's what Michael Persinger's hypothesis was is that you know the ultra weak magnetic stimulation that he would do on people's brains was up regulating endogenous DMT you know Terrence McKenna one of his theories was a stone 8 theory of evolution in which he believes our ancestors ingested psilocybin mushrooms which led to the growth of the prefrontal cortex which has not really been explained yet by modern science in terms of what was the reason for that jump in the size of the prefrontal cortex and I think that you know the endowasca pull shift theory of evolution is kind of complementary to Terrence's theory is that instead of our ancestors ingesting psilocybin mushrooms I feel as though pull shifts throughout history have induced either up regulation or down regulation of endogenous DMT causing to neurogenesis neuroplastic changes in the brain and I feel like we're in the middle of undergoing that right now Wow I love that one because stone 8 also has scientific even correlates like the fusion of chromosomes 2a and 2b the development of the fox p2 protein so there are these scientific correlates around that as well which is very exciting and I really like the idea of these magnetic pull shifts having to do the very nature of the sun the sun is God the sun powers the energetic secretion that happens on the planet for there to be this process of awareness being an observer of creation with all these appearances of form and experiences and whatnot and so for there to be a magnetic pull shift on the planet with the sun that triggering a neuro chemical up regulation or down regulation of potential stress and up regulation of more peace that is hella cool yeah it's wild and if you look at even some of the plant studies it shows that DMT is upregulated when UV B rays are at their highest and what happens during the pull shift is that the magnetic field of the earth weekends and it actually allows for more UV B rays onto the earth which would point to the possibility that you know that's one of the reasons why endogenous DMT is upregulated during these times is it maybe acts as a neuro protective effect you know as one of the mechanisms but yes an interesting theory interesting conversation and the less for sure yeah I love everything that John is doing I would highly recommend everybody to go and check out dmtquest.org the documentary the link is in the bio and so is the documentary link again it's a movement that will affect everybody you know focusing on discovering innate pathways to unveil the mysteries of human perception and potential so guys support them donate right here the donate button definitely support them in they have you know over 40 research that's going on he's got great blog posts here the advisory panel as well you can go and check out all of this and definitely highly check out the recommend checking out under about the future research as well go and check out everything they have going on that you would be donating to so guys get behind this guys this is it look at all these epic you know subjects dmt could be the missing link across all spirituality you know dmt has the spirit in remembering molecule the key to unlock the matrix the analysis of conscious breathing affecting the central cerebral spinal fluid pulsations that regulate dmt bridging the profound subjective experience with objective biomarkers gamma activation maybe when the easiest noninvasive objective biomarkers and these neural signatures of divinity and quieting the mind to be able to create this union this purification this neurological activation around your calling your very faith is inside you and as said in the sue legend hide it inside it is the last place we will look this has been such an honor john you are an awesome soul an awesome contributor to this planetary awakening and we are super grateful that you came on the show to talk to us thanks for having me man I feel like I'm just doing my job and I'm just having fun with the journey and connecting with people like you and your audience and just everybody out there who's about this movement you know about not just dmt quest but just about the human potential and kind of remembering who we are and just finding peace within ourselves so we can you know spread that out to other people as well you know I think that's super important especially in these weird times so just thanks for having me on I really appreciate this discussion with you likewise we're we're honored to have hosted you and we hope that the take away one of the main ones for the audiences not only tap inward to this inner kingdom of God that's already within you but also support the research of dmt as one of the main ways for us to synthesize spirituality with science it's so beautiful and again dmtquest.org the links in the bio below check it out if the video brought you guys value give it a like it helps the algorithms also subscribe if you haven't yet to the channel comment below with your thoughts we would love to hear from you and share the video with those that you feel like this would resonate with especially those that are in this matrix layer that are looking for this objective scientific biomarker to get them to open up to that heart chakra more and more yeah right on thanks so much for having me on man hopefully we can when the second episode comes out I'll come back on we would love that when when is when are we looking for the second episode approximately to be quite honest it looks like it's going to be out in the fall I mean we still need to do a little bit more research in terms of to add it into the documentary so we're kind of waiting on that and a few other things but yeah most likely in the fall of 2021 episode 2 will be out epic and that's going to be DMT quest episode 2 absolutely awesome awesome this we're so jacked hit the donate button on DMT quest let's get this done okay we love you we adore you so much thanks for tuning in I'll go ahead and end the broadcast and we'll stick in the studio for a minute right on bye guys see ya