 And we are back as promised with some more of Why in the Morning, and this is Queens Wednesday on Why in the Morning, and it's time for Strength of a Woman, but before my Strength of a Woman of the Day, I'd like to send a major shout out to Ogudakayesu and Kala Vivaal for always starting on Wednesdays on a laughing note with the breaking views. And as I always say, if you think there's a video out there that needs to be showcased to the world, a video that should be breaking the view, send it away on our social media handles, which are always right there below the screen, WhiteFive4Channel on Twitter, WhiteFive4UnderscoreChannel on Instagram, and WhiteFive4 on Facebook. It's time for the Moment of Truth, My Strength of a Woman of the Day goes by the name Esther Kabugi. She's been banking for 13 years and shares her passion in dancing as she's here to share a story with us. Karibu Sana. Santia Sana. Alright. Camera is number four. That is where you'll be looking when you're talking to the people, but for now we can have this conversation together. Esther, maybe you can just give them a brief bio of yourself. Esther Kabugi, my name. And basically my university, I attended Dexter. First I attended Mtsongari because that is where I started my base, immediately after my high school. And upon completion of my IT course in Mtsongari, then I took up a course in marketing, business admin and a minor in communication because my goal, my hope was actually to be a presenter at KBC. Oh, that's her mother's station right there. I think then my inspiration was Zayna Baziz, do you remember her? Yes, I would be a fan. She played our tribu, so she was my mentor then. So immediately now after my university, I started working, banking, it's a career I never imagined. You never imagined yourself like that? Yes, I never did, certainly not. I'm actually amazed, 13 years later, and counting, I'm still in banking. Do you love it? Yes, I do. I think what I love about it is the experience, the fact that you meet customers of all different backgrounds, you get to meet them at their workplace, they meet you at your workplace. So that interaction and the fact that I'm able to offer them a service and that makes them happy is what keeps me going and that's what motivates me. For me, the defining moment is when I can make a customer happy and they leave there saying thank you, you made my day. What are some of the things that make a Kenyan customer happy at a bank? I think in general, everybody just wants to feel special. When you go out of your way, beyond your call of duty, just to make the experience of duty, I like that. Rather than the norm, basically what they do, it's a repole effect. You make them happy, they refer you to customers because that's basically the kind of job I do. You make them happy as much as the end goal is not for them to refer you to anybody is that you basically change, you basically make a difference and give them a reason to want to be with you. Think the next time somebody asks what you do for a living, tell them making my customers happy. Totally yes, totally, because that's the goal. That's the goal right there. Because even when you have your own business, I normally say what you do when you're given a platform, for example here at KBC, you're not serving KBC. You're serving those customers that are viewing, or those viewers or those Kenyans that are viewing. So now that extra mile you go to make the experience pleasant and exciting is what basically puts you above the rest. This is the kind of attitude that got you to a management level, but I'm pretty sure 13 years ago it wasn't the same. How did you start? I started, I actually started way back in Deister because I realized that when you have your folks and you have like the three of you that are also in the university. So it was kind of in terms of the resources, strenuous. So I figured from where I sat, beyond now waiting on my folks to provide me with, because we're able to do the tuition, but still you could see, you know, there was a struggle. So in campus I decided to start up some small businesses to side hustle. So where you say, you look at an opportunity, because then I figured that students kind of will get lazy, or we love eating a lot. So and sometimes whatever we offer is not satisfying. All factual. Yes. So I started doing some sandwiches, making some juices. This is a Deister? Deister. Then I'd sell that, make a lot of pocket money. So and beyond that, I also looked for another business opportunity where I would get people come and do cleaning. So like there you have dry cleaning, but now in school you cannot afford to, in campus you can't afford to have that because people will, they are for the ability. So we'd have people coming to do cleaning for us. So I figured that is an opportunity. So plan myself accordingly based on the classes that I took. So what I used to do is just tell people, if you need me to do some cleaning for you, iron for you, I can do that at a price. And I made a lot of money. So you run a laundry business. You run a food business. You've run a food business. What have you done with your... I think that was the starting point. And what I'd like to encourage the young people, I basically everywhere I go, I mention this because we also visit, due to the nature of my job, we visit schools, we visit every other institution. So what I tell them is your passion, what you actually look at and need, then come up with a solution. So if you start it off while you're still in school, it makes much more of a difference. You don't wait until you're out thinking that you will get a job. Because the reality of it right now, we don't have that many jobs and most other jobs are shutting down. Yes, most businesses are closing or downsizing at the moment. So for me, what I keep saying is whatever you start in school, however minute you think maybe, it doesn't impact in your life. Which has a very big impact because I actually respect these guys who hook, they make a lot of money. If you sat down with them and they told you how much they make in a day, you bow down. It's very easy to overlook what they do because it takes a lot of energy, strength, willpower, but it's every business is a business. All right, coming from a business side of life to being employed, transitioning to employment, how was that like? It was easy. Because you don't take all the risks. Yeah, because now you have to wait for the pay sleep. However, the transitioning was not hard because I think in my mind, then during our time, it was more of you need to get employed. It's not like these days, these days, employing yourself is far much better than being employed. So it wasn't difficult at all. The only challenge was their set of rules. Now you have to follow a set of rules. The timelines, you're not your own boss anyway, you're under rules, terms and conditions that you must follow. Nonetheless, because I was still young, dynamic, it wasn't difficult. So the only difficult part now was now moving now from Nairobi to El Doris to another branch in a different town with different challenges and everything. All right, so being somebody who has been in business, even if it's a small business, and having customers right now who are in business and who are young people, what are some of the needs you've seen over time that young business owners have when it comes to finance? Financing has always been a challenge based on where you are in your business. So as a young person, I know when you don't have the mazel power in terms of financing and you're starting out is a challenge because any sponsor or any bank, bank don't usually give money to startups. Reason being, you've not been tried and tested. And when you've not been tried and tested, the chances of us gumbling and saying, let's give you this money so that you can start up your business, then wait for the returns. You'll now find yourself in a situation where you're not able to pay the money back. So ordinarily, yes, there has been a challenge. And that's why the government came up with now that other solution of the youth fund. It was supposed now to assist the young people along that line where you're given so long as you have a very good business idea, you get financing. Now with our industry, or any lender, even for you as a person, as you think you did lending, you have to have some background. So when you have already started your business and perhaps you want to open up another after a year or so, that's where now the bank will take you seriously. Because what we say is we need to look at the way you are self-assessment, where I am right now. Can I honestly say that I'm making this amount of money? And if I took a facility with the bank, can I be able to pay it back? Because with taking a loan is more taking a risk, but a calculated risk, where I know I'm taking it and I know my business shall be able to pay. So it's a risk both ways for the debtor and the creditor. Totally, yes. Everybody's taking a risk yet. All right, so what are some of the options that we have as young people when it comes to financing now? Now that we know very well and clear, we cannot easily get loans without asset. And we need to survive. We need to build a future for ourselves. With financing, I think the most, the very most important thing is, like I said earlier, don't start it off when you have already left school. Start your business as early as you can, when maybe perhaps your folks or any other person can finance you. Because with the lenders it's a bit difficult when you don't already have a track record. It's the track record we use to determine whether you can get a facility. Now start where you are, however small. You don't need so much money to start. It is that small that you start with and that passion that you have that now will make that big, will move you to the next phase of business. So the secret is starting a small, saving, saving, saving. Saving very important. Saving very important. And the passion is tops everything. It's top, top notch. Passion is top notch. Saving is number two. Then number three now is your drive. Your drive, how you wake up in the morning and what you do before you go to sleep at night. All right, in your free time you're a dancer. Not so many people know about this. Yes. How does this help with the stresses that come with numbers in the financial industry? Because of the numbers, you realize that you can't be an introvert. Actually any business, you need to make money. You have to be very outgoing. So you have to look for, again dance has always been my passion. So being my passion, something I started way back when I was in primary high school, competitively in campus, then slowed down when I moved to another town with the opportunities. Now the thing is with dance, it helps me get rid of stress because you focus on something else other than the number. So that stress, the relief that I get out of it, you realize that when you're a dancer you must also be physically very active. So in terms of stress, you're better able to manage. All right. It's very important to have a physical activity. Very important. Yes. That you engage yourself in. Totally for anybody. All right. Whatever you love, whether it's playing music, whatever it is, beyond the business that you do, there has to be something else that helps you unwind. Whether it's adventure, whether it's running, jogging, anything that physically helps you, anything that you do that helps your mind. And obviously when you engage your body, your mind also makes a very big difference because it all starts from the mind. All right. Yeah. Perfect. The next thing I'd like us to talk about is financial literacy. And this financial literacy level is very low in this country, as we speak, from the way Kenyans borrow to the way Kenyans spend. You can tell for a fact that the literacy levels are very low. So the first thing I'd like to ask, are there things that you know right now about money that you wish you knew back then, 13 years ago? Yes. Borrowing, saving, money in general is something that is never taught in school. I think in school, yes, we must go to school because that was now creates a difference between you and any other person. And then more work is, you actually, the school of hard knocks is actually after school. That's when you realize you need to be street smart. Street smart because first, you will never learn about the culture of saving from school. So what you need to learn, actually for me what I learned is in Japan, they have the best culture in saving. So for them, when it comes to saving is a priority and saving is very key because even when you come for any loan or any person, even a Shylock, especially for lenders, assuming you want to buy a car, you want to buy property, so generally or when you want to start off your business, sometimes you're told you must give us some sort of a commitment. So now at that point is when you realize that your contribution is very key. So and your contribution being very key, meaning saving is very important because nobody will give you 100% financing on anything that you want. So they will tell you, I'll give you 90, then you can contribute 10. As we tell you 80, then you can contribute 20. Others even 50. Others even 50 based on your business and how the financing model is all about. So very important, saving, very important. Now the culture, the lending, okay, I mean the uptake, the borrowing culture, I think Kenyans, we are very good at borrowing. Yes, it's good business for banks. Very good. It is good for an investor. And because you're very good at borrowing, you find that we have very many banks. We have like 43, 45 banks in Kenya. So in Nairobi alone, you can imagine the Kenyan banks plus the international banks. So and then now we have the mobile lending. So now our uptake on loans is very high. We actually beat most of the countries in Africa. As a government and as a people. So as a government, you know where we are and as the people also, that is Kenyans are risk takers. They will borrow money regardless. So that tells treatable Kenyans, yeah. Yes. That's how you see, South African banks are here or most of the banks, international banks are actually in Kenya because when you compare the two like in Kenya, Kenya and South Africa, because they are exactly, we have microfinance institutions coming all the way from Botswana. To set up shop in Nairobi. To set up shops in Nairobi. Business is booming. Business is booming. The only challenge is that I stand corrected from my experience is we are equally not very good payers. Yeah. Because the debt is not taken for investment. Yeah. Chances are. Chances are the debts are not taken for investment. And even if we do, when a business goes sour, what are the sorts? All right. Yeah. I'm curious. You are a mother of two kids. And congratulations on your baby. Thank you. Six months old. Yeah. I wish in your corner, Salimia, but he'll see this when it grows up. When it grows up. Right. Is this something you're going to be impacting on your kids? Is this something you're going to teach, to be teaching your kids financial literacy? Yes. Yes it is. As much as I can, we started from the house. So by the time they're leaving the house way back to school, but my first responsibility is that, to teach them. Because my dad taught me about savings. But I never used to take it seriously until I found myself in compass. In compass. Now you realize the world is not as easy as I thought. It is different. It is not easy. So I think sometimes we don't take things seriously because we have not encountered challenges. Or we think our folks will always be there. But the primary responsibility is how, as much as I can, I teach my kids to do that. Because I have opened for them accounts, like my four year old. I open for her an account. So every day because you get, when you open accounts with the bank, we give you a piggy bank. So that piggy bank is just to encourage that culture. To save. All right. Because it's something visual. It's something visual. So when you start it off and you place it in their room, where they know if I can save them 10 shilling every day, until the piggy bank is fully, is full, then you go with them to the bank, they'll float the cash, and count the cash, and have them deposit. Not you. Have them deposit in their account. It goes a long way. That's why it all starts. All right. So it should start with the simple things. Like the piggy bank in the bedroom, and showing them what savings can do, the benefits that come with saving. All right. So how can you show the kids the benefits that come with saving? They spend part of it sometimes on themselves. You tell them, even your business person, you say you can't make one shilling and spend one. If you make one shilling, you can only spend like some 80 cents. So now with the kids, if you give them like an allowance, you have to inculcate in them that it's good to share. Let's help those that don't have. Secondly, also, as we help those that don't have, we also need to remember ourselves, which is pay me back, because the thing about saving, the reverse about saving is you're paying yourself. And when you pay yourself, it's some sort of a reward when you say it. There's nothing as fulfilling as paying yourself. Yes, they're like paying yourself. So to make it easy for anybody or even your kids to understand, he will nag you deeper. All right. He will nag you deeper. He will nag you deeper. He will nag you deeper. He will nag you deeper. When you talk to someone, they will nag you deeper, and then they will nag you deeper. That's the reason why they nag you deeper. So those small bits of the saving part, and then now engaging them, especially that banking factor, because I have seen kids coming with their folks and they are so excited. And then we open for them the bank, the piggy bank. They count and they deposit, it's rewarding. It's rewarding to them. Yes. And they learn something from it. Yes, they learn something. And engaging them is very important from a young age. Yeah. All right. So if you're a parent out there, now you know. Financial literacy is very important, and it's a parent's role to teach their kids these things. Yes. All right. Do you think the education system can play a role as well? Do you think they're slackened somewhere? Yeah, the system has slackened, but at the end of the day, the ball is usually in our court experience because whether the system works or it doesn't, the children, these are our children. So the best you can do is make use of what we have with the time that we have to inculcate that in our kids. Why? Because if you wait for the system, the system is the system. When you say you're going to change it, you can only change it from where you are by inculcating that culture in your own kids because that you have control. All right. Wonderful. You came from, I hear they call it, started from the bottom, now you're here. Yes. All right. And there's so many lessons you have learned in the process. This is a long way you have come. So what is that message that you'd like to send to the ladies out there who are watching you right now? I think the message I'd like to send is that believe in yourself. Don't give up on yourself. Keep learning how to mentor us. People who are better than you, people that challenge you. People who have done it before, seen it before. Because mentors are so significant. We can't do without them. Then appreciate small beginnings. Yeah. Don't give up. This is like the 11th time you're talking about small beginnings. Yes. I appreciate the small beginning because every human being that we see on this earth has come from somewhere. The owners of the buildings we see in this town came from somewhere. And if you sit down with them, you will actually learn how far they have come. They didn't just wake up and they have those magnificent cars, magnificent buildings. So appreciate small beginnings, believe in yourself and always look up to God. Always look up to God. Yes. God is the ultimate. He's the ultimate. All right. You've done this for 13 years and you love it. I'm not seeing you quitting anytime soon. What is your vision with it? When you finally walk out of the banking sector and the finance industry itself, how would you love to leave it? To leave the banking industry? Yes. What impact would you love to leave there? What I have learned with banking is that it's more of service. So that service, the service bit where I go out of my way and conditional service. That is what I'd love to also continue with because the service is everywhere regardless of where you're working. Then the other bit is being humble. Being humble. Being humble. All right. Humility. Being humble. Being humble. Yes. It's very hard to be humble in the suits. The kind of suits we see, right? Not to be humble in humility. But being humble in the sense that you understand whatever field you understand, you learn how people operate, appreciate what it is that they do. Because when I learn your trade, I'll appreciate your trade. So that knowledge and keeping yourself, keeping your mind. You can't appreciate what you don't understand. Yes. So even if I'm in the medical industry and I'm in the banking, I don't have to have done banking. All I need is just, can I train myself to learn what happens there? Because you can do anything. You can't do anything when you chose to. So humility versus being smart is very important also. All right. Yes. I have a chance to share your social media handles just in case you'd like to interact with some people. Your camera is number four. Okay. My Facebook is Hadasa Kibongi. So you can search me, you'll get me. And then on Instagram, I have HKibongi. You can get me there as well. But in case of any other further interactions, I have my email address that you can always get me through. You can ask questions, which is at umumishabak at gmail.com. Umumishabak. Yes. Do you mind spelling that for us please? Just spell it please. You, me. Why? You. Why? Then S-H-A-B-A-K. Shabak. Shabak. Yes. Thank you very much for coming through to Wine the Morning. Thank you for having me. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. Sante. All right. We've come to the end of this particular segment. Strength of a Woman is a name on Wine the Morning on Quince Wednesday brought to you by the main man himself by Moses or it's by more on every social media platform. Kalami Valley is coming up next with Galstock Hot Topic. You don't want to miss it.