 All right, hello, everybody, who we can't see, but hello. We know you're there. Welcome to Slush. Thanks, Liz. Great to be here. We thought we will maximize our time. We know we've got a lot of folks in the audience who are looking for those specific tips and tricks, but it might be helpful just to give folks an idea of how you got started in Coms, in Tech, and a little bit of the trajectory of your journey. Sure, sure. So I think to do that, we need to rewind the clock to 2010. I think I was still at university. I was studying. And this was really the period when the smartphone revolutions started really to happen. The cost of data started to go down. And yeah, the whole app ecosystem started to really take off. So back then, I heard about Truecaller. Actually, coincidentally, I knew the founder, Alan. We can't grew up in the same suburb. And we knew each other. I mean, I knew his cousin. We were childhood friends. So everybody knows everybody in the suburb. So I actually called him up. And he picked up and said, hey, Kim. So I was really surprised he knew it was me, because stupid me, them building Truecaller, obviously they knew I was calling. So I talked with them. I want to base my thesis around Truecaller. So I met up with Alan and me in 2010. Spent a lot of time with them. But ended up writing about something else, unfortunately. But we kept in touch. And in 2011, when I graduated, I moved back to Stockholm. And Alan was the first person I called for a job. So yeah, I reached out to him. And we had a really long conversation. I mean, I think people tend to forget they're engineers. And they were writing codes. They were building products. And so there was a lot of stuff that they had time to do. So yeah, I was like, look, I'll do everything you don't want to do. And I just want to be part of this journey. So back then, it was only the two co-founders in our CTO. So the challenge was that. And they told me, look, Kim, we really like you. But unfortunately, we can't afford hiring you. And the guests who had the salary, obviously the CTO. So I said, look, I'm happy to work for free. And I just want to be part of this journey. And yeah, really learn what I'm doing. And that's how I joined TrueColor. So back in the days, social media marketing was still very new. Almost nonexistent. Yeah. I mean, Facebook's ad platform didn't even it wasn't even available in Sweden, at least. So it was a lot of trial and errors. So the first market we actually broke into was in Lebanon three months after I started. It was not because of me. It just happened. It wasn't your great pitching? No, it was not my great pitching. It just kind of happened Christmas 2011. So out of nowhere, we started going viral. And we were TV coverage. Social media was crazy. And shortly thereafter, we realized like the problem we were solving in those markets. And a couple of weeks later, it started spreading like drug millries. And after a couple of months, that started to happen in India as well. But during this time, I spent a lot of time in support. I would say support is probably the best school for me to learn about product, our users, what they love, what they hate, and what we need to improve ASAP. So also, when all this happened, there were a lot of great stories coming in from our users from the Middle East, saying like, you know, thanks for true call, or you know, I've got in touch with an old classmate I haven't spoken with for 15 years. So I thought, you know, this is quite interesting and really fascinating how all these, you know, stories, you know, people sharing them. And I kind of took them and started, you know, combining it with the founding story, like you know, how Alan and Ami started True Caller and started pitching journalists. Like back then, I'll be honest, like I didn't even know what PR was. So you didn't know on the record, off the record? No, no, no, nothing. And I learned it through the hard way. Let me tell you that. So, you know, for me, it was just, you know, I wanted people to write about the True Caller story. And that's really how I got into PR and Coms. So, yeah, I mean, it's been a really fantastic ride. I think, you know, in the early days, it was a lot about being very practical. You know, we just needed courage. And we'll dig deeper into that later. But look, Liz, I mean, you're the Coms OG here. I mean, you used to work for free as well. I did. And you worked for Obama. I worked for Obama for free, yes. And Elon recruited you. Yes. You know, the two single most important, well, very important people that has made a huge impact in this world. Tell us about your story. No, I think very similarly, like it's about finding the person or the team or the mission you believe in. And I was working at CNBC in New York and got a call from a friend who was working on the Obama campaign. And he was like, look, I need a deputy. I can't pay you. But I have a desk and a computer. Can you be here in two weeks? And I said, absolutely. And I broke my lease in New York. I packed one big suitcase. I threw everything else into storage. I found a sublet on Craigslist and I bought a one-way ticket to Chicago. And it was just about taking the chance. Like, there was no guarantee. I think we all look at things in retrospect, like, oh, this company was bound to be successful, destined for greatness. Barack Obama was, of course, gonna win the election. Like, none of that is guaranteed. It was like, I have to go do this. This mission, this person, this cause is existential for me. And I have to go do this irrespective of whether or not there's a job at the end of it or anything like that. So moved to Chicago and spent about six years working for the president. But when that sort of time was over, I almost in some ways fell into tech PR. I come from a family of public servants and military folks and nobody's really in the private sector. But I was ready to move back home to Northern California and two friends of mine from Obama Land, who if you are Pod State of America fans, it's Tommy and John, introduced me to Elon Musk and I went through an unsurprisingly non-traditional interview process and ended up running. How was the process like? The process was, my very first interview at Tesla was with Elon. I went to meet him at the factory. And again, that's one of those things like, this is not normal. This is not this like large organization. You know, you meet with the recruiter and then you do this and then you like, eventually do that and you have a working session. It was like, no, show up and talk to the CEO. It was at the Tesla factory in Fremont. I got completely lost. Like, the robots everywhere. But it was amazing. So I spent about two hours talking to him there and then they were having an event a couple of weeks later. He's like, rather than having you go through some boring process, the best way to figure out if you're the right leader for this team is for you to come help lead this event and help us do the PR for it. You can try us on for size. We can try you on for size and we'll go from there. So I flew down to LA and did the event and had a job three days later. Incredible. Which is marvelous. It's just, it's insane. And again, it's one of those things where it's not traditional. It was such a different approach for him. But I learned so much from him about that and we'll talk about this in a little bit of like, how do you find the right leader for your comms function? How do you know that this is the right person who matches with your mission, matches with your team, matches with the culture at your organization to help take you to wherever you're trying to go? It's not about necessarily hiring the person for where you are now. It's about trying to find that person for where you want to go. Completely. And Tesla was still a very, very young coming back then. Teeny-Tiny. Yeah, Teeny, it was, you know, this was 2013. Model S had just won car of the year. But, you know, truthfully, we were this ridiculous underdog relative to Detroit and, you know, all the other large OEMs in Germany and Japan and Korea. And so it was- You were the underdogs. We were the outlaws. I mean, we were, in some ways, not always- We followed the law, right up onto the bleeding edge of it, you know? But, you know, there were a lot of fights around being able to sell direct to consumers. And in the U.S., there are a lot of states that actually have laws that prohibit the direct sale of an automobile to a consumer. You have to sell through dealers. And Yang-Long was like, well, that's horse shit. That's not how you're going to get people to understand what- Are we allowed to curse at Slush on stage? Okay. Okay, we're gonna do it. And he was like, that's horse shit. Like, I need to be able to talk to consumers directly. And so our storytelling from the comms team, the marketing teams, it was all as direct to consumer as you could get. And having to have that like scrappy underdog mentality, we had no PR agency. We had no budget really for anything. It was just like guerrilla pitching and coming up with stories and trying to build a credible narrative for an industry. I mean, electric vehicles prior to that were thought of as like golf carts for all intents and purposes. And all of a sudden, you had the sexiest, most amazing car in a generation and it just happened to be an EV. Right, right, right. So what's your thoughts there, like, for startups? I mean, there's so many founders. I'm sure there's some comms people here as well. Like, how do you kickstart this machinery? Like, where are things that other foundations that you need to get right? It's a great question, because I think that people often jump to the like, how do I find the right agency? How do I hire the right person? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Gotta take a step back. Why do you want to do PR? And you guys at True Caller know this best. It's like, are you doing it because, frankly, the circumstances have sort of galloped ahead of you and you're needing to talk to reporters before you are ready to? Or is it identifying the reasons why you need to raise your company's profile? Why do you want to define yourself and who are the audiences you are trying to reach? You know, it's so funny, I think, startups are often so good at identifying OKRs on the product roadmap for finance. For comms, it's the same thing. What are you trying to achieve? It's not just to get a story in TechCrunch. Why do you want that story, whether it's TechCrunch or somewhere else? Is it because you need to raise? Is it for recruiting purposes? Is it to reach your customers? And that's the foundation on which you build the PR plan. But you have to start with that set of first principles and then you can sort of build out which agency do I hire, how do I think about this? But you actually, I mean, you have done that hiring both in Sweden but also for launches. So like, how did you then, once you knew the story you wanted to tell, how do you then operationalize? Like, is it an agency? Is it an in-house person? How do you find that right fit? So I was kind of an in-house person but I didn't know about that until like 2013 or so when it kind of made it official. But I think what we, you know, we had a very different approach. I mean, like we just thought about practical PR, right? Like getting covered and such. I kind of wish that somebody told me earlier that, you know, think about the foundation, right? I think nine or 10 startups I speak with today is like, you know, they don't really understand the value of PR, like why they want to do that. And I think the easiest way to kind of like break that down is like you need to think about corporate communication and consumer communication. And once you can like understand like, okay, how should I approach the corporate communication? Like how do I attract investors? How do I, you know, get the eyeballs of the right partners and so on and so on. And then, you know, for a consumer, like how do you tell a great story that, you know, attract customers and loyalty and such. So I think once those things are figured out, it's also like when you start going into new markets, it's about identifying partners. I think it is caught some to like, let's say if you want to go into the US, like recruiting somebody in-house is expensive and you don't really know if the US market is the right place to be for you, to be honest, right? So I think identifying right partners but also knowing what you wanna achieve is so important, right? Like writing that brief, not, you know, being fluffy about, you know, you wanna change the world, like be very, very specific, like what are the stories that you wanna get? What are the things, you know, how is this gonna move the business? And I think once you know that, it'll become much easier when you speak with either, you know, freelancers, boutique agencies or bigger PR agencies. And I think for us, we've had great partners over the years. I would say mainly, it comes mainly from referrals. And I mean, till date, I still in touch with these people. I mean, like to become my friends and it's so great to have this kind of like resource and people that can like be on ground for you and support you through that. Well, and I think it's also fascinating the difference between like when you and I both started in tech there, at least my perspective is there were not nearly as many agencies and freelancers who specialized in that zero to one. You know, for early stage companies that are looking to come out of stealth and begin to build buzz and create a narrative, it was harder to find that. And so it was easy to kind of fall into the trap of like just go to a big agency or a big brand name and you might not, I mean, especially if you are a founder who is dealing with scarce resources, which I assume most of us are, you know, you're trying to maximize every single penny. And so finding those, the agencies, the boutique agencies, the freelancers who are just as scrappy as your team is, who are just as hungry, who can go do some of those again, sort of like gorilla disruptive tactics as opposed to the agencies that you may then need later in your journey. And I think that's another thing for folks to think about is like, so a great example, like I am a shit zero to one PR person. Like I am not the person to take you out of stealth and do some of that early stage stuff. I am much better, like that's not my superpower and it never has been. I am much better at the, you know, mid to large stage, but knowing that and who you're hiring, but also then being aware that like as your company goes on its journey in the same way that the leaders in other functions and the external partners for other functions are going to change and evolve to help you scale, that is going to be true of your communications apparatus. And so the person who you hire, or the agency that you hire to take you out of stealth and, you know, or to do some of the launches in the early markets, they're gonna help you grow to a certain point at which they may sort of hit their ceiling of value add for you. And that's just okay. Like that's an indicia of success. They should be proud of that. You should be proud of that. But you also have to recognize the time when you need to move on to an organization that maybe is more international, maybe has broader reach, deeper relationships with more mainstream media, those kinds of things. Yeah. And when is the right time to bring on like an in-house, calm person you think? Yeah, I mean, my perspective is, look, as a calm person, I'd love to say the earlier the better, job security for all of us. But the truth of the matter is, is that, you know, for a lot of companies, you can get by for several years and not just get by, but in fact be quite successful with external support if you find that right agency partner. I think when you need to bring someone in-house is, there's a little bit of like, you're gonna know it when you see it. It's more art than science, but when you have enough media attention or you need to drive enough media attention that it is a full-time job. Like there is, you know, not just 40 but probably 50 hours a week or more worth of work, managing the agencies, crafting the stories, doing the pitching and creating that steady drumbeat. For some companies that might be when you hit a certain level of product diversity, for some it might be international expansion and so like, hurting all of the cats of the international agency becomes too much for somebody who's doing it part-time. It's a different sort of moment for each company but you should be on the lookout for it, like know that it is coming. Yeah, yeah. And then, okay, so now if you've decided that you need to hire in-house, how do you find the right person? I think it's really important to, I think the way I see it is like, it's almost like creating music, right? Or you're about to write a symphony. It's, you know, either you can hire an orchestra or you can just go for a single producer that sits on their laptop and create the most amazing pop song. And I think I would actually go for the latter, like, you know, looking for people that are extremely passionate, that are willing to go out there and pitch for you and really resonate with your vision, right? And I think it's so important to have like, people that understand, like, not only just PR, but actually company building, because I think it's so important for cost people to stay close to founders, understand what they're going through. You know, what's happening in finance, what's happening in product, what's happening in tech, what's happening in legal. I think those are persons that are the ones that really excel in the comms role. And I think it's difficult finding those people early on that are willing to, you know, move from a more senior to like a startup. But so look for the people that are, you know, by nature, very curious, that are willing to kind of like, you know, just go for it. Yeah. And I think look for people who want communications to be a business function, a business partner, because- It should be an afterthought. Correct, it's not an afterthought, it's not a support function, but it's also like the motivation of your comms team should be business oriented. How, you know, it's clips and clicks and impressions are bullshit metrics. Like they are so easy to inflate and they don't actually tell you the true story. But what's important is, did your news cycle drive business? Did it help you acquire new customers? Did it help you secure a new round of financing? Is it helping recruits understand your business and want to come work for you? That's the most important sort of metric to your point. Like if you don't hire someone who is curious about the business and wants to be embedded within it, it's gonna send everything sort of cycle. Complete, complete. And I think it's also like it's finding like the balance of, I mean like PR is so much proactive work, right? Like when you hit those stories, it's also about like, okay, what are the relationships you've built along the way that it's not like a one shot thing, like, okay, you know, New York time carers, okay, we're not gonna talk to them anymore. Like it's a lot like consistency because you wanna take these people who are covering you on a journey that you just got out from stealth mode, you've raised funding, but what's next? So you need to keep on engaging with these people and think about like, okay, what's happening next? How do I kind of keep on building this relationship? So it's a lot of like this background talks which nowadays know what it is. And I think for journalists and reporters out there, they're equally interested to learn about what's going on, right? Because I mean like they're on a learning journey as well. So I think being a cross person who knows that and are able to kind of like have that relationship with media is really important. Yeah. So then, you know, I think one of the things that is a, to that point of like that relationship with media is incredibly important but increasingly communications, the aperture is wider, right, because how and where people consume their information, get their news content, what they think of as a trusted and reliable source is broader than the traditional media. Completely. How are, like, you know, I know for us, like we spend a lot of time thinking about how do we reach our audiences across sort of all surface areas. You know, we have for, you know, younger audiences, obviously there are certain elements of social media that really resonate in their different platforms that are more important to have a presence to reach younger folks who are consumers, those who might be, say, couriers, those who might be restaurants interested in joining the platform. Like, have you had to navigate that in terms of a strategy of the melding of that traditional and sort of new media, which is a horrible way to put it, but. No, I think it's so important, right? Like it's, you shouldn't see this as like something binary. Like it's like, okay, we're going out to, you know, pitch tech crunch, we're gonna pitch, you know, these outlets. It's also about thinking about your consumer, right? Again, corporate and consumer communication and how do you balance that? So I think it needs like the strategy that you set for that needs to be addressing both of these two aspects of comms. So yes, I think that's what I really prefer when I speak with, you know, founders today. It's like, you know, it's not just about, you know, getting a story on a news outlet and such, but it's also like, how do you build that narrative and story across your brand and to the, you know, important stakeholders around your company? Yeah. All right, so we've got about two minutes left. Looking back on, you know, the 10, 15 years of your career in comms, what do you wish you knew when you started? Like, what's a mistake you made that you wish you, somebody had pulled you aside and said, hey Kim, this is gonna happen. Try to look out for this. Shit happens. Shit happens. Crisis will come, crisis will go. And I think like, don't be too hard on yourself. I think being patient, I mean, this is a long-term game, right? Like you don't build a story in a week. I kind of like to think about that, you know, the heroes analogy. The heroes quest, yeah. Like, you know, at the beginning, it's really easy to get, you know, maybe, you know, your struggle to get coverage and such, but then along the way, you get some friends, you know, which could be investors, hopefully. But then shit's gonna happen. And it's like how you pull yourself out of the mud that's gonna be important, right? I think Mal Davis has a really great quote saying like, you know, it's not the note that you play is wrong, but it's the note that comes after that determines if it's right or wrong. So I think from a company perspective, like what you do next, if you really, you know, mess up, that's what, how people gonna, you know, look at you and that's gonna like, that's gonna determine how people perceive your brand. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think the only thing I would just close with is for the founders out there, folks who are thinking about this, to my mind, the most important thing is don't let anybody else have the control over telling your story. Yeah. So hire the right people, be proactive, don't let it be visited upon you. Take control of your narrative and really own it. All right. Time's up. Time's up.