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Do all of those things, and then if we pick your comment, we'll notify you and you'll get free access to both. Now everybody else, both programs are 50% off right now. If it's Maps Performance you're interested in, go to mapsgreen.com. If it's Maps Aesthetic you're interested, go to mapsblack.com. The code for both, for 50% off, is FEB50. So FEB50 gives you half off, one or both of those programs. Okay, here comes the show. A lot of people know cortisol to be the stress hormone, but a lot of people don't know is that cortisol often feels good and this is probably why many people over-train. Ooh, remember we call those cortisol junkies? Cortisol junkies, you know what's funny? You know I first heard that was actually from a doctor that I trained. Oh really? Yeah, I had a client that was a doctor and we would talk about how a lot of people just get addicted to exercise and I'd say yeah, a lot of people, they just feel terrible, but they still go and train themselves super hard and they get that short window of feeling good afterwards and he goes oh, it's the cortisol. And I said what? And he goes yeah, cortisol, I mean it's a stress hormone because what it does is it gets your body to release energy right away. Now, too much cortisol over time, causes muscle breakdown, can cause fat storage, obviously it's a stress adaptation, but in the short term it causes this energy release and he said yeah, these people over time, their body probably becomes not unlike insulin insensitivity, right? When you start to lose sensitivity to insulin or develop insulin resistance, lots of cortisol over time, probably starts to lose its effect and so you're over trained all the time, overworked, the same people, right? They don't sleep very good, a lot of coffee, high stress, they tend to be late often to appointments, they also train their butts off and they love the workouts because they're like but I just love the way it makes me feel even though they're obviously overdoing it. Well this is why too, like you'll find it's usually higher in the morning, right, and that's something that's more advantageous, get you up, get you going, that stress hormone kicks in and then it's not advantageous for you. No. Like especially when you get towards, you know, sundown and starting to calm down, but yeah, it becomes, it comes one of those feelings you seek out once you get into these high intensity type of exercises. Did you guys find like a common theme with the clients that, like what are some of the things, I felt the same thing too, I'm just curious if you guys were on the same. Oh, the avatars like this, right? They over train, that's obvious, we're talking about that. Yes, high performing, high stress job. Or like five kids. Yeah, five kids, which is a demanding job, I mean, that's what it says. I mean, that's a job you don't get time off, right? So you got that. They don't sleep very well, lots of caffeine typically, and oftentimes to help them at night, wine or alcohol. Exactly, something to bring them down, which yeah, would typically be alcohol. And they navigate, they tend to gravitate, I should say towards orange theory or CrossFit or HIIT training or circuit training. They have 15 pounds of body fat that's stubborn, they can't figure out why it won't come off. They cut their calories, why isn't this working? Oh, I know, I just need to work out harder. So now explain this a little bit. So what is going on here, correct me if I'm wrong, that you have somebody who is, those are all the things you're listening, these are all like, some lower level, some higher level stresses on the body. And so what's happening is, and many times, I don't know if you said it, but many times this is also low calorie people, right? People are trying to restrict or cut back. They're taking on all these insults that the body has just gotten used to just constantly being on the defense. And so it starts to lower its cortisol production, is that what is happening? And so in extreme cases, now that when that happens, now you're in really big trouble, but what might happen is, and this can happen with many hormones, right? If the hormones are, if a hormone is really high all the time, your body starts to become somewhat, for lack of a better term, desensitized to it. So receptors will either down regulate or it's not as effective. This is kind of what happens with insulin resistance. You know, before you get diabetes or pre-diabetes, you can track and see insulin levels going up and up with the consumption of sugars or carbohydrates. And people don't realize what's going on until, oh, I have full blown insulin resistance and then they go into type two diabetes. With this cortisol, it's just this high cortisol all the time. And at first you're kind of getting, we've all been there, right? We're stressed, but we have kind of this wired energy. So maybe lack of sleep, but there's stressful stuff going on and we feel kind of energized, but it's this wired kind of energy. That can come from cortisol along with catecholamine production and other stress chemicals. And over time, your body starts to lose sensitivity. So then you want to push out more of this and you tend to seek out things that make you produce more cortisol. And one of those is these super high intense workouts. Another one that I find is very interesting is oftentimes these same people will find themselves chronically be rushing or late to appointments, which I love bringing that up because people will look at me like I'm some kind of- Well, it's in the- It's subconscious. Yeah, like it's almost like it's a self-sabotaging kind of a mechanism where you do get a rush from being late and all of a sudden you have to figure everything out on the spot. And I feel like that. You do get a bit of that same kind of a rush that you get from something high-intensity exercise. So now what I've found with these clients, these are actually some of the hardest clients to get through to. 100%. Because they're already, everything that they've accomplished in their life usually was from hard grinding work. Right. Well, when they probably got there initially, like they lost weight and they saw some result from doing high-intensity workouts, but they have never left. Well, and they also, it's hard to tell somebody who honestly feels better, feels good, right? From these types of workouts immediately after that it's not good for them. Like that, I always found that one of the most challenging things like, and this was really common, right? When I was coaching at Orange Theory and this was really common when the rise of CrossFit, right? When more and more people are doing that type of training and even when hit was popularized. But what happens is you get somebody who does these things and they truly do like it. Because they get this sense of accomplishment, they sweat really hard, it was really, and they got through it and they get that spike, of course also they get the spike of energy afterwards. And so they're very certain that they like this way of training because it makes them feel good. It was really hard as a coach to get through to that person and be like, no, this is not what's good for you. And they're going, no, yes it is. I can tell it's good. I mean, it gives me more energy. I kicked the, you know, the day and it's, you know, I do great, you know, I kick off the day and I have a great day because of it. You kicked the day in the dick? Yeah, I was gonna say that. I got you, don't worry. I chose not to say that. Matt Vincent has a couple for that. That was what was going through my head. There's a more appropriate way for me to say that. Don't worry about it. But you know what I'm saying, like, that's what these people, it's really hard to get them out of it because they've either had success through training this way or they feel a certain way from it and it makes them feel good. The challenge is they do feel good or better temporarily in the context of how crappy they usually feel, right? So what tends to happen is you start to feel bad over time and that's how you always feel. And then you have a new definition of what feels good. The reality is, is if they could feel the contrast of what real good feels like, they would see that what they're getting is a nervous, anxious, wired kind of energy. Not unlike, again, like we've all experienced this. Lack of sleep, like, you know, how about like when you first had your son, remember when you first had your son and you weren't sleeping, but you were energized and you're like, oh no, I got plenty of energy. Really what it was, it was this. It was high. Yeah, you know? So it's hard. It's really hard to reverse them out of it. And I think the only winning formula that I had for that was when they would finally get fed up with lack of results. When they got to the point where they're like, I don't understand why I can't lose 15 pounds. I'm doing everything and I'm eating so little. What the hell's going on? That's the only way that I could get through to this person. Was what I'd explained to them is that, okay, if you're certain you love it, that's where you wanna be. And if you're completely happy where you're at, energy, strength, muscle, your body shape, body fat percentage, what if you're happy where it's at, then by all means, let's keep doing it. But if you come to me and you say, Adam, I wanna change this. If I wanna build some muscle, I wanna be stronger. I wanna have more energy. I wanna lose body fat. And you're struggling to hit any of those goals, then I'm gonna tell you what you're doing is not what we should be doing. So that, and that would be the only way that I could break through to them is obviously it's not working. You have this goal you have not achieved. It's not that you need to do it more and longer or harder to get there. You don't need, you can, there's a way to work with your body. Instead, we're working against it right now. Whether you believe it or not, you are. And if you want to make changes, then we have to change the way you're going about it. That would be my only way to break through. Yeah, do you guys remember in your early days of training when you started to really see this or notice this as a thing? Like, I remember distinctly, this was, I mean, I was an early trainer. This was the 24 Fitness on Hillsdale before they redid it, right? So it's a while ago. And I remember there were, obviously there was a room for the aerobic classes. And I remember there was this class and it was a quote unquote resistance training class, but it really wasn't. What it was was high intensity circuit training for an hour. It was pump classes. Yeah, it was like an hour of intense squads and push ups and dumbbell laterals and you know, donkey kick, and it was just nonstop intense. And I remember when I first became a trainer, I saw this class and I saw this room full of 40 people doing it. And most of them were middle aged women who were taking this class. And I remember thinking like, wow, these women are gonna get great results. Like this is when I was an early trainer. So I really understand this. And then I watched this class because it was during a time when I had a client. And it was the same women coming in, coming in, and I remember seeing them sweat and work hard and nobody was progressing. I remember thinking, could they just be eating a ton of food and have a really bad diet? Like what's going on here? And I'd see them not change, not change. Well, eventually I figured I would find ways of getting into these classes so I could potentially talk to new, get new clients. So obviously as a trainer, I was trying to get a new trainer, I was trying to get new clients. And I'd go in and start talking to these people. And I'd find out some of these women were taking this class for a year. Two years. And then I'd say, is it your diet? You must be eating a lot of calories. Like, oh no, I count my cow. I had one woman pull out. She had a, in her workout bag, she had this back in the day when people would write things on paper. And she had a notebook. She goes, no, I'm eating 1200 calories a day. And she was showing me the food. And I remember being totally confused. How is this even possible? It's mind boggling. Had the same experience, but it was with like the group X instructor. And I saw them in there with multiple classes, sweating profusely. And then would come in and like work out. And I would see them like putting so much work in. And this is back when I was in the mentality of, just if you keep putting work in, you get a return for that. And it was just like, I didn't even know how to explain it. Cause even one of my clients asked me why they weren't, you know, in phenomenal shape. And I'm like, I don't know. I had the same thing. I'm like, maybe they're sneaking in a bunch of cupcakes or something. I have no idea. No, that was this. So I trained, that was my experience was training actually group X instructors. Oh, they were hard. Yeah, no, they were really hard. And I mean, and that was the first time that it kind of, they were the first like aha moment that there was something else going on here, you know, because it wasn't a calorie thing. I mean, shit, they were, they should have been burning, you know, 10,000 plus calorie base. I mean, I had group X instructors that were teaching three plus classes in a day. Uh huh. So three hours or four hours of intense, you know, cardio like training every single day and they were just stuck. Their body would not change. And they, you know, and their thought was, oh, I picked up the body pump class too. So I'm lifting the weights, you know? So they're lifting the weights, they're doing the cardio classes like crazy. I started holding dumbbells when I go running. Yeah, totally. Everything fast. Literally, those, those were things that they were doing as a strategy. And, uh, and then I look at their food log and they were, they're eating nowhere near a high amount of calories. So that was kind of like first experience. I was so confused. I had an experienced trainer that I looked up to that worked with me and I asked them. I said, what's going on? Do people just lie? And he said, well, sometimes they do. He goes, but usually they don't. And he says, you know, if your body doesn't want to do something, you're not going to be able to force it to do what you think you want it to do. And I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, well, the body has this incredible ability and this is totally true. Has this incredible ability to change and manipulate its metabolism and hormones and even drivers of behavior. So cravings or energy or lack of energy or drive or lack of drive in order to get, in order to do what it thinks it needs to do in order to survive, right? So here you are beating yourself up like crazy, probably not getting good sleep. Do all the stuff that we talked about, low calories and your body's like, we need to survive. We're moving like crazy. We're not eating much. There's a lot of stress. So what it does is it organizes its hormones and it organizes how it operates. And it can literally, there's a huge swing of how many calories your body could decide to burn on its own depending on what's going on. And some of that is directed through hormones. And there's a lot of stuff that we don't fully understand. And it's pretty remarkable. I mean, later on in my career when I really figured this out, I would get clients like this. And so long as they complied, I remember I had one lady and I've talked about her before. She was working out all the time, running daily, dropping her calories, had another 10 pounds of lose. I mean, it was a ridiculous amount of activity and low calories. It was 1200 calories a day if I'm not mistaken. She was working out seven days a week, which included some resistance training, mostly lots of running Pilates yoga. So she was doing all kinds of crazy stuff. She hired me over the course of a year, she went down to three days a week of resistance training with one day a week of running. So she got down to four days a week of exercise, probably one third of the total amount of activity. And she was eating over 2,300 calories. So we got her to burn more than 1,000 more calories a day and working out one third of the amount of time because we had got her body to want to be leaner. And this is the thing. And the other thing that'll happen if you keep pushing your body is eventually it'll shut down or become injured as a way to get you to stop. And you see this quite often. Well, I think the important part of this conversation is to understand too that there's a spectrum here. And we're kind of highlighting like the extreme, right? Low calorie. And so there's people going like, oh, well, that's not me. I mean, I'm not doing 800 calories and I'm not doing seven days a week, four hours a day. I'm not that person. Yeah, that's the extreme, right? Right, or oh, I don't have five kids or I don't have a crazy stressful job. So this can't be me. But we're highlighting the extreme version of that but it's a spectrum. And there's a lot of people that are on that side and the middle is the sweet spot. Cause then you can be the other extreme. You don't do enough, right? You eat too much. You don't do enough movement. You don't do enough training. You don't put enough stress in your life. So you're seeing minimal to no results. So there's that end of the spectrum. Then they have this crazy end and they have everybody in the middle of that. And where we really want to be is right in that kind of middle balance. But there's a lot of people that are to the right of that still that they're taking on a lot of stress and simply by just scaling back on the stress or maybe increasing calories and feeding the body or changing the adaptation. So this high intensity type of training maybe do something more like strength sets where I'm straight sets and long rest periods and maybe focus on recovery more a little bit. So there's a lot of people that would see more results just simply by modifying or changing the way they're going about it. Oh yeah. And a lot of times they just got good at it. It's something that that's why they enjoy it. It's like their body adapted to this way of training and they associate all these benefits to it. You know, energy wise and whatnot but they're not progressing. Their body's like fully adapted in this way of training to where it's starting to kind of have negative differences going forward. Yeah, well, I mean, look, think of it this way, right? All the hormones that people, you know, want to improve or increase, right? Testosterone, growth hormone, like these are the youth hormones, right? Balance of estrogen or progesterone and women. You want to have good insulin sensitivity. That's very good for you. All of that stuff leads the body towards more energy expenditure. So all of that in combination with the right type of exercise adds active tissue to your body, AKA muscle, which means now you have a higher caloric requirement, okay? So if your body organizes its hormones in this way, the way that most of us want, we want to feel younger, rejuvenated. We want to burn body fat, build muscle, recover fast raw stuff. But in order for that to happen, because remember that results in higher caloric expenditure all the time. It results in more lean body mass. In order for that to happen, your body has to think it's safe to do so. Otherwise, why the hell would it? If you were the manager of your body, if you're like in this, imagine this like, like Star Trek, right? You're like in this room operating all these machines and then you're having a meeting with your other operators of the body and you're like, hey, we want to increase the size of the engine. We can't do that. We're not, we don't have enough energy. We're expending way too much. We need to conserve, organize everything in a way to continue to conserve. We can't do that. Or if they come and say, hey, we need, let's make the engine bigger and you're like, well, let's look at the logs. More plasters. Yeah, let's look at the logs. Okay, no, we got plenty of energy. Looks like we're cool. Looks like there's more energy coming in or in the future because we don't have this history of no energy. Everything looks cool, it's not stressful. Let's do it. We're a bigger engine on. Let's make this happen. I mean, while Romulans are shooting lasers at you and your phasers on stones, lots of stress everywhere. I love that. So good. Hey, I wanted to ask you, Jess, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Obviously you were in a bad mood today all day long. Cause you bought a haunted house? He walks in, Justin's not a man of many words, but he's, you could feel his- Where's his emotions? Yeah, you know, that's the problem. Well, I guess it's what you see is what you get, right? So you guys like call it immediately. I can't hide it, it's just like how it is. Like I was a little annoyed this morning. Well, I was woke up early and went to the high school and was training the kids and just, I do that like Monday and Wednesdays, typically now and I try to kind of devote some time to that. So I went down there and like, I get this call and I actually noticed a bit of water and I thought maybe we'd left the sprinklers on overnight like too long or something. And then like there was just- Where was the water? Don't you have artificial lawn? Yeah, I do. It wasn't on the lawn. So it made its way to the lawn, but like that should have been your first red flag. It was weird. She's over-watering that artificial turf. Like, honey, you're here a little crazy with us here. Yeah, so it, but everywhere else it was, it just looked like it was watering the plants. And so I get this phone call like, oh my God, you know, a pipe bust and I get this video and it's just spraying everywhere. And so I'm like, I'll be there in a minute. That's this morning? Yeah. So I just bail and leave. I mean, we're literally five minutes away from the school. So I just zip right back up. And in this huge windmill that's like in my front yard, it houses this water pump and everything that kind of does everything. And so one of the pipes just broke and burst and it was just like floods just everywhere. And I'm in there, oh, like trying to see and assess what it is and I run over to go shut the main water off. And yeah. So by that time it had like flooded the entire front yard. So that's going to be a fun bill. You got a plumber coming over? Yeah. What's that? You got a plumber coming over? Yeah, so I shut it off and then I left and called, you know, and got a guy out to fix it. But dude, it's just the thing is this house, I love it, dude. It's like, it totally fits our needs. It's in like such a rad spot. But it wants to destroy itself. I'm convinced. First you tried to set itself on fire. Then it tried to flood itself. Yes. Now wasn't, now hold on, didn't the previous property there, wasn't it like it caught fire? Did someone die in it? But the whole house burned down. So, yeah. And then I had that weird occurrence. And then, yes, I'm still. It's a haunted house, bro. Didn't someone die in it? Is that what happened? Yes, somebody died in it. Oh my God. Fucking Doug was like, holy, it was gray. And she passed it. Everything was fine. And we saved her. Oh yeah, she's bullshit. She's still there trying to get you guys out. Hold on, was it built? She likes us, dude. I don't know about that. I think it's something else. Was it built on an ancient burial ground? That's it. It might go further, right? It might go way back, you know, beyond that. Who knows what they messed with. And then some crazy, like, you know, fire demon or water. I don't know. It's, yeah, it's definitely. I'm telling you, listen, these spirits in Justin's house, they're messing with the wrong guy, let me tell you. I dare you to mess with Justin. I'm gonna punch him in the face. No, just kidding. Don't challenge the evil spirits. Hey, he's speaking to school, so I got a funny story for you, right? So my daughter had a basketball game. So I'm like, I'm at home and I'm trying to rush. And I'm going to jam over there. So on the way there, I looked down. So you guys, okay, so you guys obviously know this. I, every once in a while, wear like a shirt for this YouTube channel. And I'll get all kinds of weird funny shirts or whatever. Well, anyway, I had, you guys know the shirt I have? Your lizard people one or your mushroom one? Yeah, there's like an alien sitting on like a mushroom and smoking a joint. And there's another alien like took psychedelics or whatever. Dude, I walk in. I remember my daughter, she's in sixth grade Catholic school, bro. I walk in and I have on this freaking alien drug shirt on my, I'm wearing it right now. And I walk in and I'm like, oh, dude. It's all right. Did no parents say anything? No, but you know what? Of course not, because you're all jacked. You know what? Inside they're all talking shit, but no one wants to say anything. Maybe, maybe. Of course. I had one of those moments because for a while there, I was like, oh yeah, that's good ideas. And like, I got one of those like Gavin knew some shirt with like a clown nose on it, right? And I didn't realize I was picking my kids up and I was talking to their teacher and he's like, I got so many looks. I'm like, why are we looking at me all like funny like that? You know, I'm like, oh my God, I'll probably piss everybody off. Well, that was like our original idea. Our very first t-shirt we ever did was zero fucks, which I thought was a brilliant idea until I thought about, oh wow, it's not a lot of places that I could wear this without just being butchered. Fucks, we just cross the street. Dude, you walk around just. In theory, it sounds like such a great idea. Then you do it just like, oh, okay, you can't really wear these too many places. Yeah, I'm gonna go to church now, so you guys. Well, speaking of zero fucks, I'm glad you give a fuck at them and you decided you're not gonna do Brazilian jiu-jitsu anymore. Yeah, no, I'm so now on. We have two guys, right, that work for us, right? Both Geo and Eli, both in the last, what, less than three months, have like injuries that require surgery. And I'm like, yeah, the idea of. Torn knee, torn bicep. Needs surgery, like, yeah, cool. And I know, and I know you've been saying you wanted jiu-jitsu. I'm so happy you're not because you're, I mean, you're a little injury prone. So I'm just so happy you're not doing it, bro. He's got the long limbs for it though, right? No, he's got the build. Stop, stop. I'm just, you know. I'm too competitive for it. Don't encourage him, bro. Okay, you're right, you're right, you're right. I don't want to see Adam end up with an injury. Well, I wanted to, because like, I was like, this is a perfect sport to get my kids, like the next progression from gymnastics, because it's, dude, I love what they're doing and it's great. And they're having a lot of like awesome, like progression success with it. But I'm like, can I do something a little more, like, manly? Did you show? No, hold on a second. I just pissed everybody off. I know, but like, I mean, definitely every guy in gymnastics you do. Listen, like as a spectator, that's all I'm saying. Like, I know as you're doing it with the rings, it's badass and, you know, and like flipping and stuff and it's really hard, but it really sucks for spectators. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, the tournament, did you show, Sal? Did you show, you saw your kids? Oh, I didn't show, because I showed them, I'm like, they're doing moves, bro. Well, I mean, okay. So like flipping and kicking in. As an early form of activity for kids, there's nothing better than doing that. Nothing better. So that's why I'm all for it. I promote it, honestly, all the time. Jesus, the phrase is gonna get hardcore into it. Yeah, exactly. Like, if they keep going and like it's their thing, that's gonna kind of- Yeah, I'm thinking about joining the cheerleading team. I want to be a base. It's coming out. It is what it is. You can't control any of that stuff. I'm just saying, dude. Well, Jiu-Jiu-Jiu-Jiu-Jiu for manly sports. Jiu-Jiu-Jiu, well, whatever. Jiu-Jiu-Jiu is a great sport, I know. It's such a great sport because it teaches you humility and you have to check your ego at the door. I can't think of a sport better than Jiu-Jiu-Jiu for that because you will get your ass kicked and you will get your ass kicked by smaller guys than you. It's a great way to diffuse a lot of like conflicts and fights like right away. Yeah, you talk about manly, I'll tell you what. You want to hear a story, a manly story. I had, we had an instructor, a female instructor who was, I don't know, 130 pound, so average, small-sized, and she was a purple belt or whatever, which is, at that point, you're pretty good. And we had a dude come in, average-sized guy, 190-pound dude or whatever, obviously, he's a man, and he wanted to try the class out. And sometimes when you get beginners that come in and they do the sparring, they just go crazy and they go super hard. In fact, if you do Jiu-Jiu-Jiu, anybody who does Jiu-Jiu knows, you're more likely to get hurt with a beginner than you will with a black belt because they don't know which way to move, they'll jerk too quickly in one direction and it can be a bit dangerous because they don't know how their body awareness isn't great. Well, anyway, he's doing the sparring, he's going against another beginner, and he's a big, strong, dumb idiot, and he's whipping this guy around and she stops him a couple times and she says, no, no, no, go a little easier, you're gonna get her twist his ankle, you're gonna do this, whatever. Anyway, he didn't listen, he ended up hurting the guy. So she said, listen, next round, you spar against me. And he made this face, like total douchebag face, right? Kind of like, oh, you know, a girl, all right, I'm gonna go against you. And the rest of us were like, oh, you're gonna get your ass kicked. Get the popcorn out, you guys. And she choked him to sleep. She put him to sleep and he snored. If you've ever seen someone get choked out, they snore? Sometimes he'll snore. That happens? Yeah, if you get choked out on your back. You need a deep ram all of a sudden. Yeah. Do this. I didn't know that. Oh dude, he woke up and he's faced her in red, he was super embarrassed and we're like, he's like, what happened? Like she choked you out, bro. She put your ass to sleep. So no, it's a great sport. I think that's a lot of fun to do. Yeah, you'll have to show in the video though. The boys are already getting really good. That's not, it's only been what, one year? Oh, no, they've been a year. Yeah, a few months, yeah. Oh, I think it's been a year? No, probably about, I'm gonna say six months. Wow. Wow, that's great. No, really, yeah, they've really taken off with it. And it does help that they're really into the trampoline stuff with that. And so yeah, trampoline, parkour. I can't wait to put my son in gymnastics. I absolutely can't wait. Oh, dude, I got a conspiracy theory for you. Oh, not a theory, but something that's gonna trigger some conspiracy theories. Did you see the video of the massive amounts of birds? A huge, it's like a huge crowd of birds randomly all died and fell on the ground in Mexico. What? Did you see this? Why is it always in Mexico? Like I've seen phenomena like that before, video-wise, but like what was it? Like an electromagnetic pulse or something that? They're guessing. They're guessing. But there's a video, I don't know if Doug can find it, but literally there's like a video and just... Like a lot of them? Okay, so you ever seen like when there's a huge amount of flock of birds, it looks like a dark mass? Yeah, yeah. Okay, it's literally, they just fall out of the sky. Dead on the ground. End of days, dude. Did that happen in like a movie? Is there a movie that did something like that? Well, when they all... Mystery is a huge, what was the date? Is this one of the South's things that's like four years old? Look at this, watch, watch, watch this. All of a sudden, here we go, ready? Okay, I saw one bird. So it's like normal day, normal day in Mexico. Oh! What? Bunch of dead birds just fell. And they all died? That's it, all dead. Wait, wait, wait, they're still flying south. No, no, look at the ground. I mean... A whole shit ton of them died. Wow. A hundred of them, wow. Isn't that crazy? What? That is weird. What's going on? Show that again, Doug, let me see what the... That looks weird. Do they, I mean... Now some of them survived? What are some of the theories? Like, did you read any of them or are they... I don't know, dude. I think, you know... Dude, imagine if you came out of your house and you just saw that. If you saw a hundred birds just dead on the ground like that. On your, or they just fell in your house? Wouldn't you think you were cursed? Yeah, I'd probably put a gas mask on or something. Yeah, dude. They could be like paranoid. What's that one conspiracy theory, Justin? That one like weather-changing device? Harp? Like DARPA? Is it harp? Or is it something like that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they have like this device that they could like shoot some part of the atmosphere and cause... So it's not like they seed, because they can seed clouds. Yes. And get them to like... Did you see the theory? What did it say? The theory, they said that there's a chance that the birds inhaled fumes from like an electrical charge from like one of the wires or the boxes. Oh, okay. And enough of them inhaled it and then they died from it. I don't know. That sounds weird. I think those are two separate things. I think they could have either inhaled fumes or there was an overcharged electrical charge. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Is it the same thing? There's weird stuff, man, that happens in the world. You guys ever see those electrical orbs? That's an actual weather phenomenon. I've seen that. Where it's like, rather than lightning, it forms a ball that'll fly through the air. You see them sometimes like rolling across roads. Like I've seen videos of that. And you're like, oh, that must be some kind of camera trick or, but no, it's... We're definitely watching different stuff for sure. You didn't inform yourself. You know what I was doing actually the night was watching the NBA game. I actually didn't get, it wasn't a warrior game because they don't do every game just randomly. I finally get to do the VR. Was it worth it? Yeah, it's very cool, dude. It's super cool. So where were you sitting? So the way it works is the part that I can't figure out how they do this is, so when I went into this game, it was the nuggets versus, I don't remember, it doesn't matter. Anyways, it was nuggets playing somebody. Is that a real name of a team? Yeah, the Denver Nuggets. Wow. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. Anyways, there was like a 900 people that were there that were viewing it virtually, right, at the same time. I didn't have to pay by the way too, it's free, so you got one. Do you see the other VR people? Oh yeah, no, I can see their avatar. So when I walk in, you see my avatar with my name above it. So I met my buddy there. What's your avatar look like? You know, he's got a bunch of gray hair. I just did a quick one real quick. Really, you didn't make it cool? No, I haven't spent enough time to make my avatar really look like me, so if someone sees it, you're not gonna recognize it. Can you make it an animal? I think so. Yeah, it'd be cool if you're like a horse. An animal with like Gucci sunglasses. So I think you could make, yeah, I think you could do that. Anyways, you see the handle, the person, and the avatars don't have legs, they're like floating, right? So, but you see their upper, from like waist up and everything, and then with their name. But what's cool about it is that one, we all fit, the game is either a sideline view, so when the tip-off happened, it was a sideline view, court side, so I literally feel like, and it's about as clear as what, you know, high-def TV was about 10 years ago. That's not bad at all. No, no, no, it's great. So it's not quite like 4K feeling yet, but I mean, I can't imagine where it's gonna be in just a couple of years, but you're watching the game right here. My buddy is right here, and we, you know, we look at each other and talk and stuff like that, and then go back to look at the game, you're watching, and then when the ball gets tipped off and it moves to one side of the court, it gives you a baseline view, so you're underneath the hoop. So now when the ball goes over to this side of the court, it automatically, it gives you the switches, the camera angle, and now I'm on the court side and the game is coming towards me. And then when it goes the other direction, same thing, it flips to the other side. So you're basically rotating from three different court views. Okay, let's say the NBA championship's on. It's the Warriors, your favorite team. Are you watching in VR? Are you watching on TV? Oh, that's an interesting question. Yeah, I'd probably watch it on TV. So it's still not to the point yet. If it was as clear, 100% I would watch it like that, just because it's not quite, like on my TV it's gonna be, but they have their own announcers, so they have specific announcers for VR, so they are talking to all the people in that community. You can hear, so I'm on the court side seats and all these other people that are in the VR world, I can hear them having conversations. And I can either, if I want to, I can mute them out and mute myself, and I can go into a private chat, so what my buddy and I did was we linked to each other privately, so we could have a private conversation so people can't hear, or you can open it publicly so you can all interact and mingle and talk with each other. But it's just like I told you on that one game where if people are conversing, like say 10, 15 yards from me, it's like mumbles but not clear. As I walk up on them, you can hear it very clear. Wow, that's weird. Yeah, it's so trippy because you'll be sitting there watching the game and then all of a sudden you hear somebody and you can't help, you're watching, you know, I'm like court side watching the game and then I can hear a conversation and you turn around a look and then there's someone standing there trying to talk to you. Doing something like this, could you see that in the near future people are gonna go to parties and stuff like that? For sure, because it's cool for that. It really is, so here's the thing, like I mean it would never replace an in-person party, but I mean here's my buddy, my buddy lives about two hours from where I live. I get to see him maybe once a month or whatever. We're both die-hard Warrior fans. The fact that we can organize, hey, Thursday night, Warriors play at seven and they're on VR, I'll meet you in there, it's kind of fucking cool. Well it's the same as like what they figured out with video games, when you get the headsets and you can talk to your friends, you know, that was the evolution of that. So it just seems like a natural progression. I read this article that said that the VR tech is gonna be within five years that it'll be indistinguishable from real life. That's what this is gonna get crazy, because if it gets to a place, it's already as good as what like, you know, High Def TV was 10 years ago, not quite up to 4K, but just when it gets up to like as good as what my TV is now, or indistinguishable from reality to where it literally makes me feel like I feel like I'm on the court. Do you think they're gonna make movies? Well, where you have, where you, where you put on VR glosses, so you're watching a movie, but you're in the fucking movie. I'm sure there'll be a lot of directors out there like coming up with those. What I was thinking back in the sports side of it was, this might not work well with basketball, but like for football, if you have it in the helmet, and so you follow your favorite player and you actually have that. Do you remember what I predicted that? Yeah. Six years ago, when we first started the podcast and we first were speculating on VR way back when. That would be the coolest. I thought that the future of it would be like this, like the Rams just played, right? And you would play somebody, you would play like a Stafford as the quarterback, and then I would be a linebacker on the other team. And so you're, you know, you're from his perspective, like looking like the quarterback who's getting ready to hike it, and on the linebacker who's watching to see where you're going, like you get to see their perspective. I totally think that's coming. And I don't see. That'd be crazy. And I think they'll be able to charge big money to do it. I think it'll be an incredible experience for the user. So it's really interesting what it's going to look like. I know all of this is like a speculating on probably in 2000 speculating on what the.com was going to look like. You know, so probably a lot of the shit we're saying isn't going to look anything like what we're saying. Have you ever seen that movie sell? The one that was like in first person shooter perspective, the whole movie shot like that? Oh, I saw some of that. Yeah, I did. That was an interesting movie. Yeah, I was wondering how well that did because I would see like something like that for like a VR movie might worth that format. I know, I would, yeah, I think VR, like I could imagine putting on VR, watching a movie and being like a passive, you know, person in the movie. So it's like you're in the haunted house or you're in the fucking murder. So there was a. You're just walking through the movie. So there's a, so my son's hardcore in a dinosaurs right now. And so I was on his iPad. I love dinosaurs. And I pulled up this, it's called Jurassic creations. It's like a Jurassic Park spin off. And it's this little kid, it's a cartoon. And the little kid, and I didn't know what this was, but it's first person, you're in the, you're in this game. It's actually a kid. The cartoon is a kid in, is playing VR. He's playing the video game, but you are watching it through his avatar's perspective in the video game. Does that make sense? So like, he's like running through the field and then he hears the roar of the dinosaur and he flips and looks the other way. And the whole thing is whipping around. You're following it as if you're the avatar. So there's already stuff that's kind of like that. That's gonna be weird. It is gonna be wild. It's gonna be, I don't know, like I think it's really intriguing like this whole thing with my buddy. Never once would I ever consider staying home, watching it on VR, or then going with my buddy the game. But the reality is I would never be able to watch, you know. But you're also a different generation. I think kids growing up with that kind of stuff. May prefer it. They probably would. You might be right. I mean, especially, I mean, obviously the price, right? You know, you're not sitting courtside, spending under $2,000 to $4,000 minimum, you know. So, you know, the fact that I can go to that venue for free, that in itself I think is really, I think that is just, that's so cool and that we can give access to people that may would never be able to do that. Now they have access to that. Yeah, I know they still have to expensive goggles, blah, blah, blah. And we're not quite there yet, but if we're already, tech gets cheaper and cheaper. That's right. If we're right here now where the most expensive part is the VR goggles for 400 bucks. I mean, it's gonna probably be. I could see shopping like that, right? You put on your VR, like right now we go shopping on Amazon on your phone. But imagine you put on your VR goggles and you're in the department store looking at the clothes that you wanna buy. So I'll take that or you're at the grocery store and you're picking what you want, you're putting it in the car and then the guy. This is why the like, you know, shops like Nike and stuff like that have already bought in the metaverses. That's their, they believe is going to happen is you're gonna be able to go, imagine meeting your buddy, oh, I meet you at the Nike store. You know, they got the new Jordan has just dropped let's go check them out. We need to like pick them up and look at and rotate them. No, totally. I think that's, I think you're spot on. I think it's gonna go that way. I just saw it too the other day. Did you see that? I forgot the name of that NFT, just 20, 23 million dollars it sold for? Oh my gosh. The JPEG. Oh my gosh. Look at it, look up NFT sells for 23 million. It wasn't like a board, a board ape. I always say that wrong. See, I think some, I think like the board apes are gonna be worth money just cause we all talk about them. But a lot of these are gonna crash, man. Unless there's actual something of value tied to them. Yeah, but even those, remember, so the best argument I've heard about stuff like the board ape is like, man, you got, you know, Steph Curry and there's a whole list of celebrities that own these things now, right? Jimmy Fallon's like, you know, right? All these celebrities own it. And so the idea is like, wow, here I can be a normal person that if I could afford it, I can now interact with this. But what happens when they all get bored of doing it? Wow, look at this. CryptoPunks Alien Avatar NFT. But what does it do? It's just an avatar? Oh, I don't get it. I feel like an old, fuddy duddy. Yeah, I'm sure there's all kinds of things that attach to it or some kind of incentive. Yeah, I mean, there's experiences. There's gonna be the interaction, the club thing. I think where people are getting, where it's over-hyped is just, and I think it was you, South, who brought it up first was just, I mean, if you had to bank, I would be curious to see this, if Doug could live this up. What dot-com businesses are around today that were there for day one? Yeah. Are there any? eBay was one of the first ones, right? Was it? Uh-huh, I know eBay's been around for a little while. Amazon, right? Amazon started a long time ago. I mean, the big ones, but most of them, just nothing. Yeah, so I mean, I think it's gonna be like that, where it's going to completely change how we do things, it's here to stay, it's gonna be amazing, all this cool stuff, but what is gonna be here 10 years from now, I think we're crazy to think that we know what that is, and sure, this stuff that has a lot of hype, like the board ape, and this stuff like that, what is it, the crypto punk or what it was called, sounds really cool right now, but I mean, what if it's not cool in five years, you know? That's exactly it, yeah. So anyway, how you feeling double dosing your peer? That's the extent of your experimentation. You doubled up, huh? Yeah, it's the first time. No, it's the first time that I literally, I just finished it right now, so it feels like it's starting to set in a little bit. I really like, even doing like a double dose of that, it doesn't make me feel like caffeine racy. No. I just feel alert, I feel really alert from it, and I don't know, cerebral, I don't know if that's the right word to use for that, but I feel clear. Yeah, they knocked it out of the park with that product, and I'm excited for them to come out with some of the new stuff. I've tasted some of the new stuff. I would like to, I would, I mean, I would just taste that still. It would be neat to see them play with some flavors with that. Because we like it, we use it so much, I get kind of bored of the same flavor all the time. I know it's a very basic, neutral flavor, you know what I mean? I'm all flavor, I know you're all like, you'll eat whatever, but it'd be nice to do it. Yeah, when it comes to supplements, it has to taste like candy, otherwise, Adam. No, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to, but I just get, I get bored of the same flavors all the time. You know the speed of that, didn't our other partner, did they just come up with a new flavor for my favorite thing that I take every night? Oh, we're talking about mellow. Mellow from Ned? It's like a lemon, I forget. Myer lemon? Myer lemon. Because right now, all they have is the naked, and they have the lavender, a plain taste. I love the naked. Yeah, of course you do. And, no, I'm really into the lavender one, berry. Yeah. The so is really good, but it'll be nice to change the pace. You know, have a different flavor. So is it official, did they drop that already? I think it's out. It's on their website. Why don't we have it? I always get so mad at our partners for this happens. It's like, we're like one of the best partners for all of our partners, and a lot of times they drop something, and it's like, why would we not have it? You know what I use? They obviously work harder. You know what I've been using like crazy, is they're obviously, I love their hemp oil, but the capsules of the hemp oil, I love it. Yeah, so easy to take. I took it when then we got sent the free samples, and I have not gone back to it and used it. I haven't messed with it. I use them all the time. Do you like it better than the dropper now, or are you using? It's the same formula. It's just in capsules. It's just in capsules. You don't have to put the hemp oil in your mouth. So you don't have to look like a druggy in the middle of it. No, Courtney prefers that. She doesn't like the taste as much. I like the taste of hemp oil. Do you really? It's not flavored, it's just hemp. It tastes kind of like weed. Yeah, it does. I mean, let's be honest here, you guys. It does. It does. It's got that kind of aftertaste. Well, you also like edibles. Like you definitely gravitate towards the edibles all the time. Oh, there it is. Yeah, I see. So what is it? It's what's the flavor there? Myer lemon. What lemon? Myer. What's myer? What's that mean? The myer lemons, are you familiar? They're kind of very juicy. Yeah. I mean, they almost seem like a hybrid between them. Aren't they the ones that you like lemonade or is made with, typically? I mean, you can, I can make lemonade with them or the traditional. What's the history of Myer? Is that a location? Maybe the person who basically bred them? I don't know. Well, I wonder, because I have a plethora of lemons. You see all that bag I brought. Did you guys take any of those? I did. I have so many of them. I can't because if I get a lemon from anywhere else than my dad's house and he finds out, it's big trouble. Did you guys do lemon and sugar when you're kids? Is that bad? Like eat a lemon? So I used to cut a lemon in half and you put a pile of sugar on a plate and you'd spin it and lick it off. Spin it. Wow. You have like certain hacks like that and there was one with like a, what was it, cream cheese? You call it like the white trash snack or something? What? What? Yeah. Pork candy? Yeah, my white trash sandwich. What? Yeah, it's bread. So you get breadsticks. I know he's talking about. Breadsticks and then the Philadelphia cream cheese and then you wrap salami over it. You've never had that. It's amazing. Wait a minute, breadstick? You get a like a thick breadsticks, right? Like the big ones. You lather it up with cream cheese all up and down it and then you wrap salami around it and then you eat it. It's amazing. Oh wow. It's so funny. Mine are so bad, I don't even recommend. No, you didn't. I'm sorry, I'm laughing. And the dessert was like lemons and sugar. Oh bro. No. Shut your mouth. No way. We had horses though. Bro, I had some poor delicacies that I enjoyed growing up too. I was like all about the nacho cheese, Doritos with cheese on top to make nachos. Oh my God. It was like a cheese explosion. Well, all joking aside, I mean I might obviously four kids and my family, immigrant parents. So for us like splurging was like, did mom buy the name brand cereal? Oh, the one in the box? Cause she would get the one in the bag. Remember that? Oh yeah. Where you could get the one in the box. I had the name that rhymed, was like the real name. Yeah, it wasn't like Lucky Charms, it was Marshmallow Mades or something like that. And it came in a big ass bag. And I'd be all embarrassed if my friends would come over. I'd go pour it, you know what I would do? I'd get their bowl and pour it in the closet. Throw a milk on it, here you go. This is weird. Is this Captain Crunch? No, this is the Admiral's App. Yeah, this is Lieutenant, you know, really crunchy. That's what it is. Yeah, you know what we used to be, actually it's funny. I was talking to my wife about this cause we eat out sometimes. And when we eat out, I like to eat out and enjoy the food and have a nice meal or whatever. And she's like, did you guys eat out when you guys were kids? I said, you know what was like a big deal? Fast food. McDonald's. Yeah, that was a big deal for us too. When it was a big deal, like, hey kids, we're gonna go to McDonald's tonight. Ah, you know what we got all excited, uh huh. And that was like a big deal. But no, no, no, no. I don't even, I can't recall, it's so bad, right? I don't know if I ever remember sitting in a restaurant and eating any restaurant dinner with my family. Not as a kid at least, as an adult, we have some of that. I mean, unless you count like Golden Corral and like fucking, what's the other? What's going on? It's like Danny's or something. Yeah, like a buffet, like Perkos. Oh, I love buffets. Sunday's at the church, I think we had Perkos plenty of times or whatever. We go like Carl's Jr. Yeah, I don't have a memory of like a steakhouse. Like my family, like us going to like a steakhouse dinner, all of us together. And if we did, I apologize, mom, you know, you see this and we did that and I didn't realize it. Sizzler, that's what we did once or twice. Sizzler was actually my favorite steakhouse, the kid. Yeah. But at that point, I think it was probably one of the best steaks I had. They had a teriyaki steak I absolutely love growing up. The Sizzler, do they still exist? Did you see Doug just pulled up the Meyer thing? What is it? So he was right, it's named after somebody. It is a cross between a lemon and an orange, but it's named after a dude, Meyer, from Michigan. Yeah, Frank Meyer, and he brought it from China. Wow, same guy, Oscar monitor, right? Same guy, right? Oscar Meyer's brother? You're Meyer Lemons. No, I'm joking. So what's this baby fart? Oh, dude. I need to hear about this. I gotta tell you, so my son, you know you're raising him right when they do shit like this, right? So we're playing and I'm playing on with my son and we have a good time. He likes to laugh and he's a very affectionate, happy, easy to laugh kid. So it's fun to hang out with this little guy. Anyway, I'm chasing him around the house and he's running and he does this little baby language. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and we're having fun. And then I go and I sit down because he's found something he was playing with and then he runs over to me. So I'm like, oh, what's going on, buddy? And he looks at me with a smile and he just pauses for a little bit. I'm like, what's up, buddy? And then he just farts. He's squeezing it out. And then he starts laughing. Oh, man. He already knows. Yeah, dude. And then he runs away. I was like, oh, this is great. Yeah, you got to keep us put. Right now I know this is like, right? Once you get past that one year, I really feel like the milestones, the new stuff, doesn't it happen almost every week or every other week? You feel like he does something different that you catch and he's catching us. Yeah, I taught him to spank his mom's butt, which might be a bad thing because now he's doing it all the time. She was on the couch and he's hitting her butt because I laugh, right? So he thinks it's funny and I'm like, oh, man, I shouldn't show him to do that to his mom. He'll do it to my mom or something. Walk around, pull the finger so he can do it on command. This is good stuff. But there's good stuff we teach him, too. Like I said, he's very affectionate, very loving. Hugs and kisses, everybody. Makes me super happy. We just transitioned him into his full-size bed now, like he has a full-size bed. Oh, that's a big deal. Yeah, yeah. So it's cool to, you know what I would have never thought we could do? And it 100% works. I don't know. You're probably not quite there yet because you're still in the crib right now, right? But you have the same Nannet camera as I do, right? No, I think we have a cheap one. Oh, you don't have the Nannet? We don't have the one with the app on the phone like you guys do. Oh, yeah, you need to upgrade, do you? So I didn't think this would work, but we can actually talk to him. I knew we had that feature, but I'm like, oh, it's probably going to scare him or he's going to, who cares? If he wants up, he's going to cry and get up no matter what. But he listens. And I'm watching him on the camera. So now the routine. Oh, yeah, we talk to Aurelius all the time. Now the routine is when I put him down in the bed, I can see, like obviously as soon as it moves, it sends an alert to me right away, right? So sometimes he'll wake up and he'll go to climb off his bed and before his foot hits the ground, Maximus, get back in bed. And he'll go right back in bed. Dude, you know what? I was scared to shit. That's right. I thought too, I was like, this'll never work. But it's like, oh shit, he listens right away. Do you think this, because I think this, because I think it's great, it's convenient, it works. We do that with our son, but do you kind of think, because I think this a little bit, these kids are so used to being under surveillance, like is it good for them to be so used to it and comfortable with it? Oh, someone's watching me. Dad's watching, you know, mom's watching me, like someone's watching me. I mean, I think if you carry that on to where they're actually gonna have, like do you remember anything before five? I don't, before five years old. So I don't, so I don't. Okay, so I see what you're saying. So once he has certain age, take it out. Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna have cameras in there when he's like 12. No, no, no. You don't wanna, yeah. You was saying so. Stop it son, stop it son. So I think, I mean, I would totally, I would totally agree with you if you maintain that. And I, maybe, you know, this'll be interesting, right? Cause I know that it'll be his mom that will be the last one to break from that. Cause I'm always like, you know, we don't need that. Or I'm like, stop looking at it. Like, you'll know, you'll hear him if he's trying to get up or whatever. Like, so she's more attached to using the camera than I am for sure already. So if it's anyone that'll keep it around longer, it'll be her. But I imagine that once he gets away, if we were just talking about like, you know, him, she was asking me last night, she goes, you know, do you think, what age do you think we're gonna be able to just leave the door open? And, you know, he'll just stay in bed when he knows he'd be in bed. We don't have to actually close the door and keep him in there. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know another year or so maybe then when he'll be able to do that. So yeah, I think if you were sort of, if you had cameras on your kid like past five, I think maybe that would be a problem. But he's not gonna remember. Now did you get him like a normal bed or was like a race car? So his crib transforms into like a, like a transformer? Yeah. Well, it turns into a full-size bed. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, convertible. Yeah, so now that's the headboard. And then all we had to do is get the mattress for it. And so, yeah, he's got a full-size bed. That's so cute. Yeah, she took him, she did take him to pick out his sheets and everything. And she's like, I had no idea what he would, I couldn't believe what he picked. She goes, I thought for sure it was gonna be dinosaurs. Or I thought like his whole is things that he's into. He's going through a Mario Kart phase though now. So ever since he got the Mario Kart race track, which is super cool by the way, I wish race tracks were like that when we were kids. Like that thing is like, did you guys see that? I've posted it a couple of times like. Now, you know which one I got? And I wanted it so bad. I wanted it forever. It's the little hot wheel ones, but even better. No, not hot wheel. They actually had, they were electric. And you'd push the button. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And they'd squeeze it like a gun. Yeah, they never lasted though. They never did. They never lasted. They always flew off and then eventually broke. Everything, man. They didn't break it. Yeah, you know what's happening right now that, you know, I'm trying to be like zen about it. You know, and not, but I said this from the very beginning, like my thing is like manufacturing adversity. And I don't want, my concern is that my son is going to grow up in a very different life than I did. And you know, there's some good things to that. And there's some, I think some things to be concerned about. Like I don't want him. Like he's not going to eat breadsticks with cream cheese and slobby for some reason. He's already been to it. He's already aided a nice restaurant already. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know. So I think about that stuff a lot. And, you know, I really wanted the family to get behind the whole like stock thing for him. Like that was the stockpile and get them to like, hey, you know, instead of buying him toys, you know, I would really, even if it's $5, $10, you know, throw it in a stock account instead for his future. And so just getting this kid stuff because he's got everything he could possibly need and want already. But boy, is that not working. And it's like, it feels like and right now he's going through a phase. So since Christmas. It's too logical, Adam. I don't know. It's because it's not for him. The gifts are for them. It is. And he is now, he understands presence. And I told you the thing I did with what happened with my mother-in-law, like leading up to Christmas, like giving him a present every day to unwrap. So everybody loves to watch him open a present because he gets so excited. So the damn kid's getting fucking toys still right now, like every other day. Like someone, I come home and I'm like, we have fucking three race tracks right now. My whole dining room now, every corner. And they're not like little tiny, little cheap race tracks. They're like those Mario Kart ones. I got like everybody has to like give him something. And I'm like, and then I also don't want to be that dad who's like being an asshole about it, being like, stop giving my kid stuff. It's like, at the same time too, like I don't want my kid to have everything. You know what happens is they have so much stuff that they only play with one thing. And it's like a waste. They don't play with other stuff too. Well, let's see now Katrina tries to argue with me on that too. He plays with everything. You know, so Just ask him for a receipt. Hey, give me the receipt with the toy just in case I need to return and return that shit. We would just take it and then donate it or give it to the neighbors. It's an interesting situation that I'm in right now. I know what you mean. Because I'm wrestling with like, I also don't want to be a dick about it, right? Like it's like, and I understand all the grandparents and the sister-in-laws and brother. Like they all want to experience that a little bit too. So I'm trying to be like flexible about it. But then at the same time, I'm watching like my kid, my kid has more toys already at two and a half years old that I'm pretty sure I had my entire life growing up already. It's like, we're just getting started. Well, you know what, luckily I have cousins and brothers who just had kids. So I give their kids stockpile. And so they're doing the same thing back, luckily. So that at least they get that. I got very, my sister did it. I love you, okay? My sister was one of the only people that did it. She did still buy a toy, but she's like, I still want to buy a toy, but I did do a stockpile. So I'm like, all right, that's cool. Like nobody else bought into it. I'm like so upset. I mean, it is one of those, they want to see the reaction and they want to see them engage with, you know, so it's, it is kind of one of those hard things to get them buy in on the idea that like, hey, like watch what this does later on. And then they're going to look back and be like, oh, thanks, aunt, you know, for this. Or you can make them feel bad and be like, hey, instead of just getting them a gift, why don't you spend some time with them? Well, I feel like I'm wrestling with them with that. And then I'm wrestling with Katrina, who's she's so reluctant to throw something away or give it away, donate or whatever, because she tries to make that case. He still plays with it. I'm like, well, yeah, if you have all the toys out for him to play with, like he will move. He owns the house. Yeah, from toy to toy like that. So, I mean, I'm looking forward. I think real soon here, Katrina's taken off for a couple of days and I'm going to be home and they're going to come back and there's going to be like two toys left. Two main ones. Yeah, like a couple of the main ones, the rest of them were going for sure, dude. They're gonna be donating them. You know, one of the problems with taking supplements that have nutrients that are good for you, like B complex or vitamin C or glutathione, for example, is the delivery method. You take it, it gets destroyed in your gut or you pee it out. Nothing gets absorbed. Well, live on labs is different. They use a pharmaceutical type liposomal delivery process that takes the nutrients and delivers them where they're supposed to go. And right now they're running a promotion. If you get their B complex and their vitamin C, they will send you a free box of their liposomal glutathione, which is actually one of my favorite products. I love it. I take it every single day. Go check them out. Head over to liveonlabs.com forward slash mp for that promotion. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Alex from North Carolina. What's up, Alex? How can we help you? Hey guys, so great things going well. Thanks for having me on and doing this podcast. It's been a great source of information. So one of the questions I wrote is I've been lifting five times a week on kind of a pull push, leg split, my main goals to lose body fat. Macros are currently at 200 grams of protein and carbs and 40 to 50 grams of fat. How should I be differentiating kind of how I should be eating on my rest days and training days? Oh yeah, this question comes up a lot. With my calories and macros, do I eat more or less on training days? Okay, so I'm gonna talk generally and then I'll get a little specific, okay, Alex? Okay. Generally speaking, it doesn't really make a difference. You really wanna look at it more from a like a week perspective than just the day itself. So it's not gonna make a huge difference if the calories are a little lower or higher on a training or a rest day from that perspective. Now to be more specific, if you really wanna start to kind of like split hairs and this can be different from person to person, but generally speaking, people tend to have better performance. This is based on studies when they eat a little bit more on the days that they train, when they eat more, especially the two hours before their workout with a carbohydrate protein rich meal. Now I say that generally speaking because, or should I say not for everybody because for me, I actually do a little better when I eat a little less on my training days, a little more on my rest days. I just feel better that way. And so I listen to my body in that particular case, but again, for most people, you're probably gonna do better eating more on the days that you train and a little less on the days that you don't train from a performance standpoint. And well, the research supports that it's more beneficial to underlay, right? So not having the exact same thing, but what Trump's, all the advice we're giving right now is whatever you're going to do consistently. Yeah, what works best for you basically. So the one thing that I'm always careful about with giving advice around something like this, if I say, oh, you know, because I'm actually the opposite of Sal, I prefer higher calorie days on days I lift and then I try and restrict calories on my days off just because it works better for my lifestyle. So I hate to put that on somebody else not knowing what they're gonna be most consistent with. So I think probably the best answer is to kind of play with all of those, right? Maybe do higher calorie on lifting one time and then try lower calorie, then try being kind of consistent across the board. And there's an argument for it all of those ways, but I think the best answer is, whichever one is most conducive for your lifestyle, whichever one you're gonna be better at staying consistent with, I think that's the right answer. Yeah, and Alex, to give you an example, like I would rather, the reason why, a couple of reasons why I tend to eat a little less on training days is because I'm busier training I'm just busier in general and I do like to save the calories for when I'm not training and I'm more likely to be eating out or hanging out with family. So don't just base your decision off of performance also base it off your lifestyle, your behaviors, how you feel. And we make the argument all the time that your behaviors is probably the most important thing to look at because even if you notice a percent difference in performance it's the behaviors that ultimately drive long-term success or failure. That's the most important thing to look at whenever you're considering what to do especially in a situation like this. Well, for that exact point that's the reason why I'm the opposite. I know that I'm more likely, if I allow myself more calories on my off days I make worse choices. So, and I just seem to be, so I allow myself, I say okay if I'm gonna eat more calories I'm gonna do it on training days because I've lifted during the week and I have a routine I just tend to be stricter on my diet. Two different people, two different approaches. They're both good. There's really no one better than the other. So does that, so if your protein consumption is different say it's a little bit less on your training days that won't hinder muscle recovery or anything like that. No, no, not really. How does it balance this out? Not really, I mean if it's like zero maybe. But no, it's not. I mean, how much do you weigh? 235. Yeah, you're fine. 200 grams a day, you're good. You can go to 150, you can go up as high as 220, 230, that rate. And I feel better that way to be honest with you. I feel better with higher and lower protein days rather than the same all the time. And I know people will bring up studies showing that there might be higher protein synthesis if it's consistent, whatever. I don't buy it. I feel better doing it that way from a digestive standpoint. Energy feels better. Gives me a little bit of variety in my diet. On my lower protein days well I got more room for carbs and fats. As long as I don't go too low, right? But you're at 200 grams a day at your body weight. I think you're totally fine. Cool. One of the other questions I asked was, so right now on my compound lifts I'm doing a rep scheme of three sets of eight, six and four with a three minute rest. And then on my accessory lifts I'm doing more, I guess you could say more hypertrophy focus where it's like three sets of 12, 10 and eight with a one minute rest. And my thought is with those compound lifts I'm under tension for a longer time. I see an S is under more exertion but I guess I've just been wondering the past month or two. I mean, am I working against myself just to my overall goals if I'm doing different rep schemes? What would you guys suggest? And how do you differentiate your rep schemes for each exercise? No, I think you're totally fine. I think it's a good idea to go through all kinds of different rep ranges. Now some exercises tend to lend themselves better to lower reps. And others tend to like, I'm not gonna do laterals for four reps typically because it's harder for me to control the technique and form and not turn it into a clean or shrug, right? So some exercises are better low reps and others are better high reps. But generally speaking, all the rep ranges between one to 25 will all build muscle. They're all beneficial. And your body tends to get used to a rep range if you stay in it too long. Now we, if you ever look at our maps programs we tend to put people in three to four week phases of a particular rep range and then move them into another one. And we prefer it that way because it allows you to really get in the groove of a rep range and the mentality and the focus and how it feels. Laws you get good at it first. Plus then you can have tangible metrics to kind of look back and see the progression of that. And if it's been effective for you and if you've been able to kind of get, move forward strength-wise in that rep range and then switch it up too. So it's, you know, you can be a little bit more objective with what you're doing. That's the biggest point that I would add is what Justin just said is the one thing that you got to be careful of because I think what you're doing is great. But if you've been doing that for three months consistently, it's probably time to switch some things up, right? So that's kind of the difference between and probably how we program in comparison to a lot of stuff I see out there is that we, you know, we have these training blocks that are only three to four weeks long and then we move you into another phase. So we want you to stay in, you know, similar way of training like you're doing right now for a period enough, for a long enough period of time to where the body adapts, you build some muscle, you build some strength, but then to move you out quick enough that you don't get stuck in there and you hit a plateau. So if you've been doing the, if you've been following this routine exactly the way you just listed it for longer than four or five weeks, that would be my one recommendation is to move out of that. And I mean, I would love to send you a program. So have you looked at any of our programs? I've looked at it. I just, I haven't bought any of them. Okay. Well, I mean, you look at, how long have you been working out for? Really about a year consistently. Oh, okay. I've weight lifted, you know, probably, you know, in high school football and all that, but really this 2021 was my first year, you know, consistently going, really not missing hardly any days. Okay. And you said fat loss is your goal? Yeah. All right, let's do that. I'll send you a map's aesthetic, Alex. Okay. Thank you. No problem. Thank you. If we have time, let me have one more question. And Sal, like I've kind of heard what your take on supplements is. And I think I'm similar. I really like trying to experiment with a lot. I know that they're not, you know, necessarily necessary, but I guess, you know, all of the crap that's out there, I'm having a hard time differentiating between what's higher on the totem pole. So to you guys, what supplements would you say, okay, this is highly recommended, maybe even close to mandatory, or, you know, what's kind of on the edge of, you know, this is really isn't necessary to what your goals are. It's kind of fish oil. At the top of the list are supplements to fill any nutrient requirements. So if your protein intake is low, a protein supplement may be a good idea. If you're deficient in anything. Yeah, if you're deficient in nutrient, then that would be an important thing to take. And then next up, creatine. Creatine is the best supplement all the way around, muscle building, fat loss, health. And then after that, really nothing. Everything else is, I mean, you can have fun with it, but really nothing really moves the needle that much besides the ones I just listed. Don't neglect to look into what the first one sounds like, because I think you just kind of went over it real quick, but if you haven't gone and had your blood work done and like a full panel and see if you're deficient in something like vitamin D, which is common sometimes, or iron, like there's a, I think supplementing for what your body needs, it has tremendous value and is grossly underrated. And I don't think fitness people talk about it enough. And to me, that's the first place I'm gonna go first is to look if I have any sort of deficiencies or I'm not getting enough of a nutrient. And then I'm gonna supplement with that. And then I agree with Sal, then creatine is the first thing that I'm throwing on top of that. And then the rest of the stuff is, it's kind of stuff that you can kind of play with and see if you notice a difference. But it is, the supplements really are one of the smallest parts of the pie. I appreciate all you guys do and you guys definitely have helped me out in my fitness journey, really appreciate it. Yeah, no problem, Alex. Thank you. That's gotta be one of the more common questions. Do I eat more or less on my training days? It really doesn't make a big difference. It just depends on your feel. Like Adam and I are a great example. We're very different. Such individual variance there. Totally. And actually, I remember I would base off the studies. Oh, studies say I got a lot more on training day and I would just not listen to my body. And eventually I said, I feel better when a little less on my training days and more on my rest days, I switched to that and it was so much better for me. This is another example of something that annoys me about our space is that, they will, somebody will make an argument, oh, well, technically this is better based off of this study. But if you're just a normal person who's trying to build muscle, trying to burn body fat, what's most important is what you're going to adhere to. So if you have a hard time sticking to what the study says is the best for protein synthesis or for strength or whatever, it doesn't matter if you're not going to stay consistent with that long-term. It makes sense to me when you're at like a high level competitor and you're like, you're already doing everything, right? If you're competing, getting on stage, you're not missing workouts, you're not missing macros, like you're on it. And so tweaking like, oh, I'm going to try timing my meal or I'm going to try feeding more on these days. That makes sense to me because you're- Because you've already done everything. Yeah. So a half percent difference, okay. Right. But I mean, for the general population that has normal goals like everybody has, that has good weeks, bad weeks, consistency is everything. And so if I can find what works best for you, that's where I'm going to push you in that direction, regardless of what the study says. It literally reminds me of like, it's like if you have a, I've used this car analogy before, you have a car or you want to make it faster. And so when you go to a super advanced NASA facility that measures the air flow over your car and they're able to modify the design of the car so that you get 2% greater air flow over there. And that'll make you maybe a little faster or you could go, you know, put some headers on there, or throw a turbo, you know? Which one is going to be a better, you know, time spent, right? So don't waste your time on the small stuff. Look at the big stuff first. Our next caller is Justin from Colorado. Justin, what's happening? Hey, how's it going? Good. Hey guys, I just want to first start off by saying, like everyone does, thank you so much for everything you all do. I know I kind of wrote a little bit in my question, but been listening to you guys for the last nine months. Haven't missed pretty much an episode. And y'all are a huge inspiration in getting me to the point where now I'm personal training myself. So thank you for that. Cool, awesome. My question today has to revolve around training and training splits, specifically a couple of different questions. So I'm looking to get into physique competition, being a men's physique competitor, doing a natural competition. Within the next probably 12 to 18 months, I want to give myself a good kind of training base to go off of, as well as I'm looking at potentially in the future. After that, I'm taking on some competition clients as well. So I'm looking at what training splits are for those. And I'm seeing with a lot of, you know, the top level guys, you see a lot of kind of bro splits, push, pull legs up or lower, but I don't see a lot of full body splits or full body workouts, which is what you guys I know kind of pushed the most. So I was wondering what your opinions were as far as training, you know, natural and enhanced clients with full body splits versus going into something like more of a push, pull legs. Yeah, and what you guys had thought about that, moving into training actual competition clients. Sorry, I know I said that a few times. I love this. So this is, I'm going to give a little story here because this is kind of what led to the creation of MAPS anabolic. When you look at the evolution of muscle building type programs, what you see before the widespread introduction of performance enhancing drugs like testosterone or actually the first anabolic steroid really used was dianabol, everybody did a full body workout. Everybody trained the whole body three days a week. As anabolic steroids became a bigger player in body building and physique enhancement, you started to see athletes switch more to splits. So the question is why? What is it about the splits that the enhanced athletes liked versus the full body which natural athletes liked even more? Well, there's a couple of differences. One, when you're anabolicly enhanced, you have a very, very enhanced recovery ability which means you could train with a lot more volume and a lot more intensity. If you're doing a tremendous amount of volume, a full body workout can just get too long, right? So if I'm doing 15 sets per body part and I'm training my whole body on a Monday, man, I'm going to be working out for three hours. It's just a very, very long workout. So that's one. So they split it up so they could do a lot of volume without spending so much time in the gym at any given moment. So that's one thing. The second thing is that when you work out with weights, you send a muscle building signal and we can actually measure this with something called muscle protein synthesis. And we see that it spikes about 24 hours post workout and then it starts to dip at about 48 to 72 hours very rapidly in which case it gets back down to baseline. So you work out on Monday by the time Wednesday comes around, that muscle building signal really starts to drop off and disappear. Now this doesn't necessarily happen to an enhanced athlete because they're taking a hormonal chemical muscle building signal. Like if you give a man testosterone, high doses of testosterone and don't even have them work out, you'll build muscle just from the hormonal signal. In fact, there was a study that compared natural lifters to men who didn't even lift weights and just took testosterone at high doses and the men who didn't lift and took testosterone built a little bit more muscle than the guys who lifted who were natural. So when you have a loud hormone muscle building signal, you don't have to necessarily go back and send another muscle building signal as quickly as you do when you're natural. So natural people, natural athletes tend to build more muscle better with more frequency of training, hitting the whole body three days a week. Enhanced athletes can get away with one or two days a week of hitting the entire body. And of course, natural athletes can't handle the amount of intensity and volume that enhanced athletes can handle. Now that being said, I'll make this argument as well. I'll argue that enhanced athletes will also build more muscle, train the whole body three days a week. Now this doesn't necessarily mean that they train the whole body Monday, Wednesday and Friday, they could still do a split but they'll probably get better gains if they made sure to hit every body part three days a week, okay? Now there are studies that compare this and the studies do show that more frequency tends to, it trends towards more muscle and more strength. Now the studies will show two days a week or two times a week for per body part seems to be the best for hypertrophy but if you actually look at those studies what you find is that the three day a week or three times a week, although the hypertrophy isn't necessarily better you see strength trend a little bit better. And my argument is the skill aspect of resistance training. If I can do, if I'm doing 30 sets of squats and I'm doing it two days a week so 15 sets twice a week versus 10 sets three days a week the total volume is the same but I'm practicing squats three times during that week and I'm practicing the skill of squats and that is a very important component to success with resistance strength. So when we're talking to most people most people we tell them full body workouts are best. Now we do have advanced body builder style routines like MAPS split where you're doing more of a split type routine or even if you go extreme like MAPS PED which is a split, a double split type routine. But yeah for most people especially natural hit the whole body three days a week and you'll get the best results out of it. I mean everything we know about the CNS is about frequency and about like teaching your body these movements you get better at them. So from overall from a quality perspective and in terms of performance and I know within the body builder world or aesthetic world this is sort of one of those things that doesn't seem to be considered enough but the more effective you are in the gym in terms of building strength it actually promotes more muscle and to be able to disperse more of that volume throughout the week. So you can really focus in on some of these major lifts and have that kind of focus and attention specifically on the ones that move the needle the most. For me it's an advantage that you have versus doing legs all in one day and like having poor quality towards the end of your workout. Justin I'm sure if you've been listening to the show long enough you've probably heard me say my goal is always to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. One of the biggest mistakes I see people that are interested in getting into competitive bodybuilding men's physique bikini any of those is they look to the athletes that are doing that or already been doing that for years and they look at how they train and then they go right into that. And I just think that's a terrible strategy. Well getting ready for competing I spent about a year training before I actually started prepping for the show so a lot of that was building my physique, building my metabolism, slowly scaling volume and what it looked like was maps anabolic, maps performance, maps aesthetic, maps split and then maps PED. It's like a year and a quarter year and a half of training right there in itself and the idea was that there's why would I jump all the way to PED just because my body can tolerate it or handle it I'm not gonna get the most results that way. I'm gonna get the most results by doing as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change and slowly building volume over time. So my generic answer without knowing a ton of information about you would be that's how I would build my routine. It would be running a program like anabolic right now and I'm gonna try and max out all the benefits from a program that's only three day a week type of training routine and then I'm gonna slowly scale that up and that's how we kind of wrote the programs. I believe to, I don't know if I'm sure maybe Doug can look this up or maybe Sal you remember you remember when you wrote down all the different pathways you would recommend based off of your goals. Did you do like a aesthetic bodybuilding one? Do you remember? I don't remember. Yeah, I mean it would be what I just said but you know Sal put together this on the Mindput Media IG for Chokey a couple years ago I think for people when they ask questions like hey this is my specific goal how would you follow your programs and I know we have a bunch of them in there. I believe we did one for that, if not it's what I just said that's what you would follow is that type of routine. Yeah and you know Justin it's interesting because of all of the strength, training or resistance training based sports the only one that sometimes goes in this direction of each body part once a week is bodybuilding. You look at powerlifting, Olympic lifting, kettlebell, any other strength sport it's about frequency now you ask yourself why because they're much more focused on skill than hypertrophy. So what does this mean for you who wants to be a bodybuilder? Well borrow from them. I think it's dumb to ignore that and really this trend of training less frequency of body parts didn't really happen till the 90s even in the 80s and 70s they were doing body part splits and they were hitting the whole body two or three days a week. They were just doing so much volume it didn't make sense to do the whole body in one day they were in there six days a week. Which is what PED looks like. Yeah. PED was written that way it's our highest volume program and we split it up like that. It is and again being enhanced with hormones allows your body to react respond and adapt differently than when you're natural. You over train your testosterone goes in the floor when you're enhanced you over train your testosterone is still high right. You got a muscle building signal that's on all the time when you're natural it's on or off and the goal is to keep it on more than off in order to build muscle. So those are the big things to consider. So if you're natural I'd go full body three days a week maps and a ball of style I think would probably be best. Okay. Shoot that over to him. Oh sorry. One other small thing for you cause I know you all always say that kind of like whatever you're not doing now is usually going to be what's best for you moving forward. Does that include with doing or differing up like your body part splits versus a full body would going into like I've been running anabolic for the last three months I just finished phase three a couple weeks ago. So we're turning into something more like a push full legs or like a maps aesthetic work. No, no, no maps aesthetic will be just fine. Okay, so we'll send maps aesthetic to you since you have maps and a ball of there's a lot of variables you can modify before you modify the split. Okay. So there's a lot of things we can look at before we go into a push pull split or even bigger split. And I mean, look splits are fine. There's nothing wrong with splits. But here's what I want you to remember train the whole body whether you do it Monday, Wednesday, Friday or five days a week or whatever two or three days a week. That seems best for most people. Once a week is not enough for most people. And don't be afraid to run. I mean, we have time, right? I think you told me well over a year that you're planning to do this, right? So this isn't like in a couple months. Right, yeah. So don't be afraid to run maps performance either because it is so different, especially somebody who has like a bodybuilding mentality. It'll be so unique to how you train right now that you're gonna get great benefits for that. You're gonna get tremendous benefits from it and it'll be good to go away from a very traditional body part split type of a bodybuilder routine. And I use that. That's how I use performance on my way of getting ready to compete was I interrupted the bodybuilding mentality that I had in training and I followed performance and saw great benefits from it. So don't be afraid to run that program either. I think maps aesthetic is fine and perfect. I think that's okay for us to go the other way. But it's okay for you to throw in performance for a cycle and then move back into like the bodybuilding focus. Okay, awesome. Cool. Thanks for calling in Justin. Yeah, of course. Thank you guys. No problem. Yeah, we haven't visited this in a while. We did it really early on because when we first started with maps and Ebola, we knew this would be a big question. Although I do see this becoming less of a controversial topic. I think when we first started seven years ago saying this, people are like, oh, full body. It's all about bodybuilding. You're seeing more people now get this, right? It's interesting because even in the sports world, I had to kind of come in and explain to the high school kids to stop doing the body part splits. And they were doing that for performance reasons. And so it still persists in terms of what people think is the first type of program they should do is as body part split. Our next caller is Rachel from Texas. What's up, Rachel? How can we help you? Hi, how are y'all today? Good. I just had a question over training and I'm kind of new to doing one of y'all's programs. So I started in November doing maps hit. And I ran that through November and December and took a break during the holidays. And then I started up anabolic in January. And I'm currently doing with friends. Prior to that, the friends that I'm doing with, we were online doing another platform. And we were probably hands down over training, at least personally, I was. But some of the things that we did on that online platform like hit or cardio or burpees, you know, a lot more cardio intensive training I missed. And I'm wondering how I can incorporate it even if it's one day a week or how I can incorporate it with my current program. Yeah, are you wanting just to do it because you like doing burpees or are you looking for the best results? Both. So I know that's hard, I truly enjoy doing, I know that sounds dumb, but I truly enjoy doing that form of training. So I don't want to go back to my old ways. So that's for sure, do not want to do it. It's not dumb, by the way, it's a lot of people, a lot of people grab it. Now, if you like it, then you can throw it in on some of your off days. It's not a big deal. Just don't overdo it and listen to your body. But if it's something you enjoy, and this is what we've always said this, look, all activities, so long as it's done appropriately, and what we mean by that is you can do any activity wrong. You can use it in a way to hurt yourself or over-train, no matter what that activity is, but so long as it's appropriate and you're recovering and you're not overdoing it, not hurting yourself, if you enjoy it and you actually get value out of it, just even if it's just quality of life, do it. I don't care what it is, go for it. So if you enjoy it, do it on your off days. Now, I'll add this, you're doing maps enabolic, but you like some of that other stuff, maps performance would be amazing. That program's got some unconventional exercises. Phase one's gonna be similar to maps enabolic, but you start to move to phase two, three, and then four. Three especially. Yeah, you're doing some of that stuff that you're talking about. You're just doing it in constructive, effective ways. So if you enjoy or appreciate that athletic aspect of it, the heart pumping, the cardio aspect, the conditioning, maps performance would be a program, I think that you would enjoy. I do wanna caution you though, okay? And that's just because at least eight out of 10 of my clients that would say this. Cause it's actually a lot more common than you think. We're addicted to the feeling they got after that way of training more than anything else. Because you get this spike in cortisol and it feels amazing. It's like taking a shot of espresso or double shot of it, right? And you get this energy rush from it and you're all sweaty and you feel accomplished. And so, but the truth is most times it's not what's best for my client for the most results. So I just wanna caution you that. Like I'm all for, if I have a client who says, Adam, I love to go for a five mile run at least two or three times a week. It's like meditating for me and I enjoy it. It feels good. I'll do it for the rest of my life. Go for it. I'm not gonna tell them not to do that even if it's not what's best for their goals. I'm gonna allow them to do it because I'm all for that. But I just wanna caution you on being able to really understand what it is about burpees. Because there's not people that really like burpees. I feel like you're lying. Yeah. Well, I love them. In fact, like last March, the ladies that I currently am doing anabolic with, we did a challenge of how many burpees we can do in March and we, everyone did 2000 to 3000 burpees in March. So like, I truly enjoyed them. Now that was a bit overkill and it took it over my life. So it's not something I wanna repeat but I just wanna throw them in every once in a while. It's necessary. So I hear your words that are coming out of your mouth but I have a different, I feel like you're not 100% honest either with us or with yourself. You loved it so much but I think I overdid it and I don't wanna do it again. Doesn't sound like they don't match. And so, now I don't know, Rachel, but you sound a lot like a lot of people that I've trained who say this to themselves but don't really mean it. Really what they're doing is they're trying to bolster or strengthen. They're a little bit of addiction to exercise. I get it, I'm the same way. So, and I'm not, you don't have to defend yourself because I'm sure I'm probably making you feel like you have to. I'm just saying that's what it sounds like to me or at least it's what it feels like. Well, listen, I don't know how much you know my history or how long you've been listening to the show but I got the opportunity to be a coach. Not that long ago, it was less than 10 years ago at Orange Theory where you have this circuit-based training and I'm not sure how familiar you are with it or not. I know Orange Theory. Okay. And spent many, many hours talking to guys and girls after classes that love to train this way and almost all of them, we call cortisol junkies. It's not so much the class, it's the feeling that they get after. It's the I accomplished that. I'm sweating like crazy and that was hard as shit and I persevered and I made it through it and they felt so great and they would tell me oh, Adam, I love that, I love to get my ass kicked and it feels so good afterwards. But then they're also, but I can't seem to lose this last 15 pounds I wanna lose so bad and I assess their diet, I assess their routine what they're doing. Well, it's cause you're doing the wrong thing for what the results that you're trying to achieve. So that's the one thing I would caution you is make sure that your goals that you have align with what you're doing. Now, if you feel great, you like where your body fat percentage is, you like where your strength is at and you enjoy doing burpees or you enjoy doing hit cardio, you enjoy orange theory classes and that's now become part of the hell yes, do it, keep doing it. But if you have goals that you're trying to move your body, I want it to look a certain way or I wanna drop a certain amount of body fat percentage or I wanna add strength or build muscle. If you have specific goals like that and you're stuck at a plateau, meanwhile, you're training this way, a lot of times that is the reason why you're stuck. You're stuck because your body is not, well, your body's responding exactly how it should be but you're sending the wrong signal to it based off of what your goals are. And so you have to just, so if you're okay with where you're at physically and you like where your body is at, you like where your strength is at and then you also enjoy doing it, hell yeah, do the burpees, enjoy training, hit stuff, that's totally fine. But where I have a problem with it as a coach when I assess somebody that they tell me they have this goal, Adam, I wanna lose 15 to 20 pounds or I wanna drop my body fat percentage by 5% or I wanna add this much to my bench press and get stronger and then they tell me this is how they're training. I go, well, you're sending a competing signal to your body. You're training it to be efficient and working out hard and really good at it. You're not training it to build muscle. You're not training it to lose body fat. Now you may think that way because you're sweating your ass off and it feels like you did a lot but your body is getting adapted that way of training and it's not showing you the results you want and this is where clients get stuck and they get in a plateau. Psychological challenge. That's right. That's a very- That's my biggest problem is the mental struggle that I want to do it but that I don't know. Obviously I was doing it not right before and too much of it so I wanna do it but I also want to, I do have body goals and I wanna lean out just a little bit. I build muscle very easily and so I just wanna lean out but so I'm worried if I throw in one day a week that I'm mentally gonna wanna keep going more because I do like the feeling. I do like the feeling of accomplishment of challenging myself- You can come back to it, I guess is the point. This is not something that you need to completely abandon but if you want to really dive into something that your body's gonna have a new response to and a new stimulus towards like you gotta challenge yourself to really psychologically place yourself and find the benefits of the other side of the training and focus on that. I mean, I go through this, we all go through this because I'm a creature of habit. I like a certain way of training. I like only doing one to five reps. I hate doing super sets and I hate doing bodybuilder style training but you know what, there's periods where I wanna just focus on challenging myself to respond differently and change my body. If you really want change, that's just something that you have to consider. Well also, Rachel, do you have any idea where you're at calorie wise? Are you tracking anything nutritionally where you're approaching it? Do we know any of this? Yeah, so I was, I started tracking November and December and I was not in November, I was not eating enough. I was around like 1,400, 1,500 calories. So when I started listening to y'all in October, I realized that error of my eating was probably not right. So I started tracking and then I started slowly pushing my protein up and my calories up and I probably got to like 1,800, 1,900. Okay, okay, so this, so if you were my client and you gave me the green light to truly coach you and you said, Adam, I'll do whatever you tell me, I trust you, you seem like a smart guy, I'll follow whatever you're saying even if I don't really wanna do it right now but I trust the process, I'd say, okay, Rachel, what I wanna do with you right now is I wanna purely focus on trying to build your metabolism. I wanna build strength, I wanna get a strong, healthy metabolism that's working for you that you get up to a place where maybe we're eating 23, 2,400 calories and not putting any body fat on. That would be the desired outcome right now. And then I would say once I get you there then we can start incorporating your kickboxing and incorporating your burpees and incorporating some of these high intense things that you enjoy to do. And not only that, when you get to go back and do that your body's gonna respond the way you want it to respond based off the effort that you're putting forth. If you go and start to incorporate that stuff right now when we're only about 1,400 to 1,600 calories your body then is going to revolt. That's gonna say, oh man, she's barely feeding me anything and she's beating the shit out of myself. It's going to conserve energy and it's not going to burn body fat like you want it to. So if we wanna have our cake and eat it too if we wanna be able to train this way that you want and you're gonna be able to shred body fat and kinda get the best of both worlds then we first need to do, we need to do the things that we have to do now so we can do the things that we wanna do later. Which right now what you need to do is to build your metabolism. Is to strength, so strength train something traditional like a three to four time a week full body routine. I would actually follow anabolic right now based off what we know now and then maybe go into performance after that but I would follow that and the goal, the mindset that I would want you to have is let's get stronger. Let's get stronger and see if we can slowly increase our calories without doing all this crazy other high intensity stuff and then, and we would set a goal together. I'd say, okay, let's agree that we're gonna get you up to that 2,300 calorie mark without putting any body fat on and then when we reach that, whether that takes us three months or eight months depending on how consistent and how much your body responds, then we can start to play with the things that you really enjoy doing that are more intense based. That way you can have your cake and eat it too. That way you can incorporate these high intense training sessions with also losing body fat. Otherwise, if you introduce it to you right now where you're probably still just barely recovering since it wasn't that long ago when you were training this way anyways, your body's not gonna respond the way we want to. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. So if I'm in phase three of the anabolic, I know I've heard y'all say you can run in an elope. Would y'all just start over? Yeah, actually, if you're doing it already, I think mass performance would be fine and I think you'll have a lot of fun with mass performance. I agree. So we'll send over mass performance to you, okay, Rachel? Okay, thank you very much. Stay in touch with us. Let us know how it goes. Okay, thank you. All right, Rachel. Bye-bye. Yeah, she's not being honest with herself. Well, I mean- Well, that's why I went out. You know what the challenge is here? The challenge with doing these calls is if this was a client of mine, I wouldn't tell her right out the gates, you're not being honest with yourself. This ain't gonna work. It would be a long conversation over sessions. You're the leader to that. Yeah, I'm not gonna, I mean, this kid, I know I'm gonna be a little harsh here, but here's a few things that she said. One, she's got a history of overtraining. Two, ooh, I love burpees are so awesome, but looking back, I was too much and I probably shouldn't have done it and I'm not gonna do it again. Three, I was eating 1,400 calories. What we're dealing with is an individual that is struggling with a little bit of an addiction to exercise, which is quite common, and she's not being quite honest with herself. Does she love it? No, she loves the addiction to it and it's not working for her and it's probably the last thing she needs to do for herself and again, this is a longer process and I know it's gonna make her, talking to her this way just gonna strengthen that and make her kind of defend herself, but the truth is it's all wrong. The association of just moving that intensively is always about burning fat and I think that's where I have the biggest issues because I had a lot of clients like this, like I have to keep this though and I love it because it's burning my fat. Well, I'm also trying to build muscle. And I'm gonna tell you this and I know you guys experienced this. Some of the hardest people to convince this of are women in groups of other women that do these challenges together. When she mentioned that, I was like, oh, shit, this is gonna be a tough one. Like, oh, me and my girlfriend. I had to pull my wife out of a group like this. Yeah, me and my girlfriends did this burpee challenge. You just talked about that not that long ago. Yeah, it means she was in the cardio kickboxing and we were trying to get them to run math's program and they just turned it into a big cardio fest and I'm like, you're out, okay, you can do this on your own. You're cut out. Yeah, you cut out, let them figure it out. It's really hard. They're part of a group. Everybody's suffering together and there's definitely value in working out together in that camaraderie, but no, she's lying to herself. I mean, I'm glad you started from the compassionate side first of, hey, if you love doing these things, like I'm never gonna, but I played out the way I thought I was gonna play out, which is, because it is at least 80 to 90% of my clients that would make this claim that they love burpees, which that was rare, but the ones that would say this or love the hard circuitry, they think, they attach it to results. They actually think it's what's best for their body and they also, what else is common, we actually didn't get into it with her, but maybe she'll get a chance to listen to this and she can assess even further, but it's very common with my clients that are sleep deprived, low calorie, high stress. It's all part of the same package. How many times do you have someone come up to you, one of these clients and they've got the dark circles, they're weathered, they're sweaty from the workout they just did. Just came back from an injury. And they're like, but I feel so good. We'll see you have to explain why that is, right? Oh, well, look, your body starts to become a little resistant to some of these stress hormones because you're hammering your body with stress hormones. So this little extra boost of stress hormones that you get from stressing the shit out of your body starts to make you feel good. And then you gotta throw caffeine on it and then you gotta do more of this intense stuff. And then the fear is, if I stop beating myself up, oh my God, I'm gonna gain all this body fat. It's a very tough position to be in and you will lie to yourself. And that's exactly what you're doing. I mean, when she says, I love it, it's so great, but looking back, it wasn't good for me I shouldn't do it, huh? Which I want to, again, and we said this, but I just want to reiterate it's if she was at a place where she was happy, she was not trying to get stronger. She wasn't trying to lose body fat. She just, she is for the enjoyment of it. Yeah, she's not trying to change. Like she's not trying to change anything. They keep doing what you're doing. They keep doing it. I got nothing wrong with that. And, you know, eating 1600 or so calories, not a bad place, could be better, but not a bad place. And doing what you love, having the body you want, having the strength and energy you want, I have nothing against anybody doing marathons, with doing burpees, with doing high intense stuff. So long as they love everything, but what always happens is I get someone who tells me I love all these intense, crazy things, but then I also want my body to change and I can't figure out why it's not. Well, let me tell you why it's not. It's cause you, like you said, you're stressing the shit out of your body and the feeling you get that you think is that this accomplished, if that's cortisol spiking, it gives you this little high. It keeps you going. And it feels really good, but it's not what the body needs to see the change that you want. And so you're in this weird predicament of I know that stuff makes me feel good when I do it, but I also realize now it's not what's best for my body. And the first program, didn't she say the first program that she did was massive? Of course. Of course she did. That's why we waited so long and it comes with a warning. I hate to say that this sounds arrogant, but when you train people for decades, you start to see commonalities. And this is a very common avatar and persona of a client that would do well and say exactly what she said. 85 to 90% of my clients tell. Yeah. I will say this though, and it does make me feel good because here we knew what we, we waited to put it out for a long time because we were afraid that it would do nothing but attract the wrong people. Yeah. The wrong people are gonna wanna do that. But what is great is that, look, here we are having a conversation with her. So it got her in because she saw, oh, this is the way I like to train. And then she's listened to the show and she started to piece together. Maybe this is not what's best. And now here we are on a phone call. And so hopefully we can set her on the right track. But I tell you what, if you're listening right now and maps hit was the thing that attracted you to, if it was the first program you bought of ours, you might wanna question if you were in the same boat because it's- We're gonna have a hard conversation with you. That's right. It's very common. She's way more common than she probably thinks she is. A lot of people- Your mindset is shifting. So there's progress there. So we can highlight that. And hopefully she goes through the program. And if people only knew how at odds we were with our marketing team sometimes. Cause we tell people not to do these popular programs that we could sell the shit out of if we just lied a little bit. Our next caller is Ian from North Carolina. What's up Ian? How can we help you? Hey there. Very nice to meet you guys. I wanted to say two quick things. First I wanted to say a huge thank you from all the people that you are impacting their lives in a positive way for which you should all be very proud. Thank you. Thank you. We're super proud of ourselves. Stop it. Rune it Sal. Yeah. And the second is I listened to you guys at like two X speed on the podcast. So hearing your voices like this is like hearing in slow motion. Well to speed it up for you. No problem. All right. There you go. My question is I need to map, run maps performance three times and should I do it phase one three times then phase two or should I go through the whole thing and just start over? Yeah well. That's actually a very easy one to answer but can I ask you what's with the three times? Is there a reason for it? Why ask this question? Well I guess you should step back a little bit. I started listening to you guys I don't know about three years ago and if you came to me and you said you're working out 10 times too much and while you're working out you're resting a hundred times too little and you're also eating half as much as you should. I would have thought you guys are out of your minds but that's pretty much true across every point. I was doing everything wrong. So I listened a while and I got anabolic and I started following it but I was still doing too much. I was doing too much trigger I was doing too often and I was getting results but not great results and I think I was listening to one of the podcasts and listening to the one where you're talking about the five by five. So I decided to try it and so all I did was squat dead, overhead, pull up bench and I did just at 125 reps and for whatever reason I was only hitting workouts every fifth day and I just saw like a light switch just went off and I finally got to the adaptive stage. So it finally started to make sense. So even an anabolic I did the pre-phase for like three months you guys say three weeks but I mean I'm learning these exercises even though I've been an athlete my whole life all of this stuff was new. So now I'm going into performance and this stuff is all so new. For instance when I did a Turkish get up the first rep I had to take a nap because it was just so new. So that's why I'm asking should I really focus on perfecting the movements and getting through each phase correctly and right or should I just go through the whole thing? That's a really cool. Okay now this is a cool question. I like that. I like that mentality. I do like the mentality too. That makes a lot more sense now why you would even want to do something like that and I think that's great advice for a lot of people listening because I think sometimes people just move from program hop all the time and they don't ever spend enough time getting good at some of the movements and that's where the gains and the results really start to pile on as you get better at it. Now that being said you'd be better off just running through it and then starting over and running through it and you'll get the same benefits of getting better at it and practicing it plus you're not getting stuck in the same rep range and phase for too long to where you see diminishing results. There's a bit, I think there's a little bit of a misconception in that you think that phase one is easier than phase two and phase three that's progressing you from less hard to more hard or less challenging and more challenging. That's not how the phases work. They're just different forms of adaptation. Different procedures. Maps and Ebola is different because pre-phase is literally designed to get people ready to do maps and Ebola. And I did that because that was the first maps program. We didn't have maps starter. We didn't have maps resistance back then. It was just maps and Ebola. And I said, well, you know somebody goes right into phase one but they haven't been lifting weights. Like they need to practice some of these lifts for a little while first and that's why I created pre-phase but with mass performance it's not like that. Phase one, two, three, four, they're all different. They're all good. They're all different. You're not progressing in the sense that you're going from easier to harder. They're just totally different. So I would go through it as it's laid out and then go through it again as it's laid out. Now, one thing you're gonna find is a lot of similar movements in each of the phases. So you're gonna be practicing some of the most important movements throughout the whole program. So don't worry about the lack of practice type of deal. And then the last thing I'd like to ask is has to do with your diet and sleep. You said you tried a Turkish get up and you had to take a nap. So there's something's going on here or you worked out once every five days and you got good results. That tells me that your recovery isn't super great and that might have to do with other factors like stress or sleep or hormones or something like that. Am I ringing in some bells here? Maybe, I think it was really I was just doing too much. I mean, when I was training to put in perspective I was doing, I was running, I guess the equivalent of running one to two marathons a day, five times a week and then racing on the weekends. I mean, it was just, yeah, way, way too much. Wow. Now, are you doing anything like that now while you're following mass performance? No, I mean, literally I just walk and I do performance every fifth day. I mean, it was really when I went to the fifth, every fifth day that I allowed my bad body to adapt. That's when I saw, I mean, and the thing that like triggered is my appetite just went through the roof. How long were you doing that crazy regime for of the running a marathon every day? Well, that was at the height of it. So, I mean, I was doing triathlons after I finished. I was originally a swimmer and I did swimming in college and all of that. And then as you would call it, I did, you know, weightlifting with aerobics or speed weightlifting. Yeah. So, strength training is like a completely new shock to the system. Yeah. And it sounds like you had to give your body a little time to recover from what you were doing before. Yes, I think it really took my body time to recover and kind of say, my body was basically saying, oh really, you're gonna let us, you know, recover and actually adapt. And it wasn't until it actually just like, okay, we'll let you do it. Oh, well, excellent. Well, you're in a great place now. This is exciting. Yeah, it is. And again, follow it the way it's laid out and just go through, you know, two or three times. I think that's the best way to do it. Okay, so you think that even though I'm going like every four or five days, that they'll be able to really learn the exercises and not necessarily, because you guys talk about the CNS connection and sort of learning the movements. Okay, so I'm gonna give you some other advice and try this instead of going once every five days. And you're not doing any additional workouts, right? You said you're just walking. Walking and trigger or, you know, just the minor. God. Actually, I do mobility stuff on the other days. Okay, so instead of once every five days doing a foundational workout, do them Monday, Wednesday, Friday and reduce the intensity. Okay. Just reduce the intensity a lot. Yeah. That way you could do the frequency of the workouts. Yeah. So that's, and that will probably feel better on your body than keeping high intensity with less frequency. And you already have the right mindset and thought process of like, you know, you wanna get good at these movements. So just think that way as you're going to back off the intensity so much, don't worry about it if it's not super heavy or really hard, that's okay, you're trying to practice. You wanna get good at the movements. I think if you scale way back on the intensity, you could easily do three times a week and not be anywhere near overtaxing your body and you're gonna get better at the movements a lot faster. I think you'll see some great results from that. I would love, Ian, are you on Facebook by chance? Not much, but I've heard about your form. Yeah, well, I'm gonna have Doug get you in there. So we'll add you for free. And I'd love to kind of hear your process as you're going through that way. You can reach out to us and let us know what you're noticing or if you have any questions along the way. I'll have Doug give you free access to that. And then if you could try and stay in touch with us maybe every couple of weeks or whatever, just let us know how you're doing and what's going on. And if we need to make any sort of subtle tweaks we can along the way. Sure, that sounds great. Thank you very much for the advice. Thanks for calling in, Ian. All right, Ian. Thank you, all the best. Yeah, I think he went from crazy training to resistance training. And the reason why he started responding after training at 135 days is he finally gave his body time to recover from what he was doing before. Well, it's funny, like the Turkish getup it doesn't like look that crazy in terms of like but it just requires so much focus. I can see how that would be like, a real shock to the body to where it fatigued. Oh yeah, especially if you've never done it. I mean, shit, I've said this before in the podcast that there'd be times when that would be my workout. I just practiced, I do five sets of practicing the Turkish getup. It literally involves like everything. Yeah, you can actually get a decent workout just doing that. But I love, you gotta love hearing that about somebody who was running triathlons and marathons and kind of hammering his body coming to the realization that he's probably way over training, scaling all the way back to where he's only training once every five days and boom, all of a sudden the body responds. I mean, if that isn't like an aha moment for you, I don't know what would be. And then the path that he's on, the direction he's going and the thought process of I wanna get good at these movements and having that attitude going into this routine. Very excited to see where this guy's at in six months to a year. Yeah, but I would say if you're over training the first thing to reduce his intensity. That'd be the first place I would look. Then you can look at volume and then frequency. No, that's good. Cause like he said, like you wanna get good at it. So you wanna keep repeating the movements, but just bring the intensity down and allows you to do that and get good at it. And people don't realize that you, the workout can still be very effective even if you're not sweating your ass off or struggling to move the weight. So no, great. That was great advice. Yeah, totally. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness or health goal. You can also find us on social media, right? So Justin and Adam are both on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump. Justin, Adam at Mind Pump, Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal.