 Good afternoon. It's a pleasure. It's another opportunity that God has granted us to come in His presence to worship Him. We are happy for the morning session which we had. And now it's another time that we still continue worshiping our Lord. For those present in church, I'll invite you to rise so that we pray. And this opening prayer will be given to us by our brother Joseph. So let's all rise for a word of prayer. Let us pray. Our most gracious and loving Father Huat in heaven. We want to thank you once again for being with us this morning until this time. Thank you dear Father for the spiritual food that we had in the morning and the physical one as well. As we begin the afternoon session, we invite your presence to still abide with us till we finish this day and will not forget to thank you. For this we pray believing and trusting in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming back. This afternoon we're going to have a very interesting discussion led by our speaker Dr. Hatta and moderated by Sister Ruth. We are focusing on the role of the Christian woman in leadership. While we are here on earth, God has given us different abilities, different gifts, different talents. So I might be gifted in one area, but somebody else irrespective of their gender will still be able to do God's work. So all are needed to do and complete the Great Commission. So we'll continue singing songs of praise as part of the worship experience and we'll start with him number 216 when the role is called Up Yonda. I'll be there. Will you be there 2-1-6. And the role is called Up Yonda, I'll be there. When the role called Up Yonda, I'll be there. That bright and cloudless morning when the dead in partial rise and the glory of his resurrection share and his chosen one shall gather to their home beyond the skies and the role is called Up Yonda, I'll be there. Will you be there, this is called Up Yonda. We are Swahili, we are now Lisa. Under what is this, Majinaya Itwapo? So we are Majinaya Itwapo. Low. Low, you know the exclamation mark, okay? J, utakwepo, thank you. Tu sima meka tika ha'adizamungu, standing on the promises of God, 518. I wonder, I know it's not in Onibosa Christo in Swahili. Onimifanya Tafsiri, 518, standing on the promises of God. Have we done this in the recent past, but seeing that we have our heroines of faith? At this point, for those who are in that class above 65, I'll give you an opportunity just to give us a selection. Okay, I know we have a song selection but I believe it will be a privilege and I know them because they have the sash. Mam rispa, mam marin, mam kea. A choice? Marin. 157. Oh, the one we sang in Swahili. Onimosa Christo. Okay, 157. Mfalme humlangoni. Great. The coming king is at the door. I feel she wanted just to stand and lead in this song, okay? Let me give another opportunity to our heroines of faith. Those who are eating, but if you are below 65, this is not your day, mam. A choice? One? 109. Maybe mam rispa, why have you selected that song? I believe it's in the SDA here, Marvelous Grace. Grace, okay, why? Just shout it loud, I'll revive to the congregation. Amen, she says she has seen that grace in her whole life. Hallelujah. Great 109. Marvelous Grace. Thank you very much. This point will asha in amazing discussion about rather own Christian woman in leadership. God bless you all. Good afternoon church. Good afternoon program. Today is the women ministry's day of emphasis and prayer and the theme of this day is heroines of faithfulness. We saw this morning about the call Hineni and this afternoon we are going to be speaking to one of the women of this church on Christian women in leadership. So welcome very much to this session. We are happy to have you here. Please engage us, communicate with us via our platforms, Facebook, YouTube and also if you are in the sanctuary we will have some papers going around for you to put your questions on your comments on. We will catch up on them. So very much welcome and I would like to invite our speaker today. We are having a conversation with Dr. Hatter von Stigel. She is a heroine of faithfulness and she loves the Lord Jesus Christ and she knows she is a beloved daughter of the Most High God. So we are glad to have her here. In terms of introduction she is a woman leader in the home, in the marketplace and in society. By training she is a lawyer but by professional work she is an investment banker at the moment she is working in renewable energy. She is also an author of the book The Mountain Within and so she is happy to be here to share with us her experiences, her life as she has learned at the feet of Jesus in her various responsibilities. So Hatter, Dr. Von Stigel you are welcome to Nairobi Centralist Day Church and to this afternoon session. Thank you very much Ruth. It's a pleasure to be here and looking forward to an enlightening conversation this afternoon. Okay, before we start let us pray. Holy, holy, holy almighty God, our Father in heaven, thank you so much for the privilege of this Sabbath afternoon. Thank you for this day you've dedicated to speak with, through women all over in this church. We thank you for the conversation we're going to have here. We ask that you may be the center of our conversation. We ask that your Holy Spirit may lead us and directors. You know every single person you prepare to be in this session today how we pray that you may have a word to encourage our hearts to inspire us O Lord and that we may hear you one more time speak. Hear my children, we'll send us O Lord. May your light, your love and your presence be with us as we have this conversation all to the glory of your name for we ask these things in Jesus name. Amen. Our key text today is coming from the book of Proverbs 9.10 and it says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. We also have Proverbs 31.30 and Proverbs 31.30 says, cham is deceptive and beauty is fleeting but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. And so let's start our conversation. We are speaking about women in leadership but when we talk about leadership sometimes we do not know who is a lead and who isn't just speak to us about what is it really when we are speaking about leadership what are we talking about? At the core of it leadership is influence it is the process of influence we often think of leadership as if you are the president of the country or if you are the chairman of a board or if you have positional power if you will that that's leadership. What I think is fundamental is to actually recognize that there are really multiple levels of leadership. Positional leadership will enable you to have influence generally while you have that position while you are in that job. A lot of the perks for example that come with a position the security detail the company car whatever it may be comes with a position when you lose the position you no longer have those perks and if you are just a positional leader what it means is when you lose your position you lose your influence. Through leadership is about transformational leadership transformational leadership is not really dependent on a position for example in my life I mentioned my mom and my grandmother this morning I never knew my grandmother I was only a year old when she passed away but she had tremendous influence in my life I also had an aunt we were not even related biologically but this was a woman who didn't have children of her own and she basically took me into her life and she instilled in me I remember when I was 4 years old she taught me the classics she taught me poems she would literally put me on a little stool to actually share my poems with the people around and she always said I was very smart and so that woman had incredible influence in my life that was transformational leadership so in an ideal world if the position if a positional leader is also a transformational leader when the two coincide you get the most done because let's face it when you have position people like you you are a transformational leader they will follow you so that's the ideal but that's very seldom the case because we can all point to positional leaders who were actually lousy who were really not very good and it's not going to take us a lot of time to think of people like that so at the core of leadership is really am I a person of influence regardless of the titles that I have regardless of the positions that people give me or that I grab if you will that I jostle for am I at the core am I a person of influence leadership is influence that's really the essence of it and it's a process your influence grows with your experience it also depends on your network because we have just met so maybe my influence on you at this point is very limited whereas my husband we have been together for a long long time we met as teenagers at Andrews University so we have a different level of influence so the influence that I have on people will depend on the experiences that we have together and so forth so it's almost like a ripple effect if you will but leadership at the core is influence so we are saying that at the core of leadership really before we ever get to the position it is the presence of influence and therefore we need to be aware whether we are in the home whether we are in a market whether we are in the community that our life is influencing and we are either influencing positively and transformationally or we are influencing negatively speak to us about the kind of influence then we as Christians need to aspire to that's a really great question what do we aspire to I think at the core at the core of it all is am I really following my calling or am I simply here to choose a career to make some money to have a position if you will there is a fundamental difference between career and calling and I think particularly for our young people it's important that we understand that career is maybe you are a medical doctor or you are an engineer or you are a mechanic or whatever or you choose to be a mother at home or whatever that is to some extent your career your calling transcends your career when you really are following God's call on your life yes you can use your career you can use your profession or whatever you choose to do but the calling is much much greater than the career Fred Buchner put it well he said my calling is where my gladness meets the world's great needs now that is incredibly profound because if I really enjoy doing something and I see a need around me and those two intersect because I'm all of a sudden standing here and saying how do I meet that need and do I enjoy meeting that need that's the critical point so when those two interject when I'm actually enjoying what I'm doing to meet a world's great need that's my calling and your calling is different from my calling each one of us if we are allowing God to actually touch our soul touch our heart so we can actually think not about ourselves but God how can I use the talents the gifts that you have given me how can I use those to meet the needs around me that's when you experience gladness and that's when you know that you are in the center of God's will for you a very important point you have brought up that it's about influence that is at the center of a call brings not only joy but it brings the greatest help the greatest needs that the human beings around us have how do we start sensing that connection you could probably use your own example how do you start sensing that and maybe just to interject the funny thought I remember seeing one sign in someone's office that said everyone is bringing joy to this office some people when they come and some people when they leave and to your question earlier we all have influence the question is only what kind so in other words what surrounds me if I'm actually approaching you will you go like this oh my goodness herta is coming let me run in the opposite direction or are you actually saying I would like to talk to that lady because she makes me feel good I feel empowered when I talk to her and so forth so influence is all pervasive but the people who are making the biggest difference are the ones who are mindful of the fact that we are here to have a positive influence on those around us we don't always succeed let's put it this way we have bad hair days and we fall short but certainly our overarching goal needs to be a positive influence to those around us so then to your question about how do we do this quite frankly I think it involves an awful lot of humility because none of us has figured it all out and I think this is where faith comes in this is what our relationship with God comes in I mean I would never presume that I could step up to a pulpit or do an interview with you or whatever without really dedicating my life to God and asking the Holy Spirit to speak through me through us through all those around us I think there must be a fundamental awareness and acknowledgement deep down in our soul that we can only stand tall before humans if we bow low before God and this is where our faith should actually make a difference I can stand tall before humans I have met heads of state all over the world I have met the queen of England you name it and I know that as a child of God I can stand tall before humans and I can count on God to actually give me the right words to speak whether it's in an audience with a president of an African country or a chairman of the board and I can do that because I know I have bowed low before the sovereign of the universe and I think that's at the core that's at the core of really being able to have positive influence Thank you So we are pulling a thread past establishing that leadership is not about the position it's about influence whether it's in the home whether it is at work whether it is in the community it's about influence as Christians we are aspiring for influence that meets the greatest needs of humanity around us in a way where it meets our calling is when we find joy in meeting those needs and that we find that place by ever more depending on God and the influence, the power of His Holy Spirit So let's speak then about how as we journey and we brought up something very important that we can have bad hair days we will not have a very smooth journey sometimes we will hit the mark sometimes we will not and it is okay for us to continue going because it's by faith that we are working Speak to us about some of the things that stand in the way of women inhabiting exceptional leadership I had to smile because when I wrote my book The Mountain Within those of you who have read the book it's the expedition that we led of disabled and non-disabled climbers up Mount Kilimanjaro and I was incredibly privileged to have McGraw Hill, one of the leading publishers in the world to publish my book and we had this incredible I developed this really good relationship with the editor and we agreed and he made some incredibly helpful suggestions and so forth and we had agreed everything by the way if there are authors in this room you know how much work it takes to write something that hangs together and that people want to read and if you are privileged to have a good editor it's really important the only time when we really clashed was when I wanted because the book was all about this incredibly successful expedition but I wanted to write about the first expedition that was a complete failure and the editor said oh Herta, nobody wants to read about failures and I said to him I said this is not negotiable to me because by the time people get to the level of professional success that I am or when people actually write their biography and most of these biographies by the way are ghost written, they don't write them themselves but by the time you get there it almost looks like every millionaire happened overnight, right? They have made no mistakes they just went on and you just went to the pinnacle and I said to me it's so important that we learn and I want to convey this message that we need to fail fast and we need to fail forward and this is so important I think for men and women alike but particularly for women and I've seen it in so many places is where we made a mistake 20 years ago and we still remember it, right? we still remember it as if it were yesterday and we're still beating ourselves up about it the notion of failing fast is we are not perfect but let it go repent, do what you need to do to fix it but then let it go and fail forward so how do I learn from the things that didn't go so well how can I fail forward how can I actually use whatever I learned as a stepping stone and I think particularly what I have seen and I've seen it in my own life particularly as women we are so hard on ourselves and we are so hard on each other and unfortunately some of the interpretation of the gospel have actually been very hard on women and this is a global that is toxic theology we don't have time to go into it right now there is toxic theology that has really suppressed the role of women and so I see this all over the world a lot of Christian women have incredibly low self esteem and I've asked myself why is that why is that because if I look at the gospel the gospel is incredibly powerful and it was no surprise to me that women love Jesus and why women to this day follow Jesus because if you think for a moment what were the two most important truths that were conveyed to the universe for the salvation of humankind what were they if you really think about it it was that Jesus was the Messiah that Jesus was the son of God and that Jesus died and rose again so we are worshiping a resurrected Christ and who were the people to whom those two messages were conveyed just think about it for a moment the woman at the well Jesus is close to her for the first time that was the first time in the gospel that Jesus said he was the Messiah it was a woman who was probably one of the most successful evangelists because as soon as she realized Jesus was the Messiah she left her pots and she ran and she told the whole village come and see so Jesus was the Messiah and he revealed that to a woman when Jesus rose from the grave the first person he encountered to say I am the resurrected Christ to whom did he reveal himself it was Mary right and these were in a culture quite frankly where women were considered unreliable witnesses so if the God of the universe was prepared to entrust the most incredible truths to two women I mean that should make us feel so good and it should empower us to actually realize that God is calling us to know that we are precious in His sight and this is what we will see at the end when Joel talks about the Holy Spirit is poured on your sons and your daughters and so forth this is the Holy Spirit is not discriminating so low self esteem is a big issue thank you so much if you are joining us this hour in the afternoon we are having Women Ministries Day of Emphasis this afternoon we are talking about Christian women in leadership and we have Dr. Hata Van Stijel to talk to us today and we are just speaking about some of the things that stop women from inhabiting their greatest leadership and Hata has mentioned two things one of them is failure that our previous mistakes our previous not so good attempts at doing something may actually hold us down for years even 20 years we still remember the mistakes that we made and we don't stand up the message is stand up if you fall forward stand up and start moving again the second thing is low self esteem and we are saying that if you've suffered low self esteem before remember that the greatest truths about the gospel of Jesus Christ were revealed to women one of them are the well leaving all her sinfulness and her shame and going back to say I have met the messiah and one of them having anointed the Lord Jesus being told that he is not here he is risen so we've got the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to help us forth as women in leadership so let's speak about do you have something else to add on to that so we have failure or previous failures and we have esteem issues that may stand in the way what else might you share may stand in the way of women taking up the responsibility and viewers we are saying that leadership is influence and when the call of God meets that influence to meet the greatest needs of the people around you that is exceptional leadership transformational leadership anything else you'd like to add to that Heta I think it probably we need to touch on culture yes I have had the privilege to grow up in a German speaking part of Romania in Transylvania and just as a side bar here where we are born affects us for the rest of our lives and the situation in Ukraine right now is hard-rending for me because this is exactly what happened to my family after World War II the same script I'm afraid but my history goes back about 800 years and I was incredibly fortunate to grow up with the culture of the nights and I need to explain this for a moment because one of the cities where I close to where I grew up has the largest Gothic church between Vienna and Istanbul and it's a beautiful Gothic church and when you go inside just before you go inside at the gate that is a big basalt gate and you see ridges in the gate and I asked I didn't know what those ridges were and I basically asked what are those ridges and it was explained to me that during the time the Middle Ages when the Turks and the Tartars came and attacked these towns and these villages when the people went to church this was a Lutheran church when people went to church the men would always go inside the church and they would sharpen their swords before they went into church so whenever they went into church they would sit outside with sharpened swords and the women and the children would sit in the middle so these men were always ready to defend their families and the ethos was men are physically more powerful but women are more important and so men would be prepared even the way they were sitting in church they were prepared to defend their families and to me that was such a beautiful picture so if you look at cultures where women and children are treated well those are the cultures generally that are also economically doing very well the cultures that are subjugating women and children are the ones that are not doing well and we see incredible, incredible abuse and so culture is incredibly influential but particularly as children of God we cannot afford to be slaves to culture keep what is good because there can be very good things but jettison what is not good we cannot use culture as an excuse to perpetuate abuse to perpetuate violence and the statistics are shocking unfortunately even in the Christian world globally one in three women is abused this is domestic violence one in three I wish the statistics were better in the household of God I wish things were better in our Christian communities I hope they are but we really need to look very thoughtfully is my culture actually aiding my walk with God or is it distracting from my walk with God it is the latter that we need to cut thank you so culture is one thing and I'm just thinking as we look at leadership and the call to meet the needs of those God has brought around us then we start looking how in consequential then culture needs to become to allowing women and the societies to actually benefit from the gifts and talents that God has on the lives of women and children so to speak in our lives speak to us just a very subtle thing I was at an audit committee seminar at the Capitol Club just on Thursday morning and it's basically for people who serve on boards and things can be so subtle insidious because one of the pictures that really struck me and these are very very thoughtful presenters but one of the pictures that really struck me was there was and talking about risks and so forth and there was a black lady very professional looking black lady and she was with her iPad and everything and a much taller white man standing next to her and it's the white man who is pointing the way and she looks up to him and it really struck me even something even in pictures like this what are we conveying with images like that I think we need to be much more thoughtful how we convey the message because that was not a picture of equality and it was not meant to be I'm sure the presenters didn't mean they didn't look at the picture and it actually took someone like me to say I mean I didn't say it but it struck me the pictures struck me because that's the subtle images that we are conveying it's the white man who is pointing the way it could have been a black man for that matter but in this case it was a white man pointing the way and the black woman looks up to him and we perpetuated without thinking without really thinking then I have to ask you Hata what is the role of men in all of this in bringing out the best and allowing women to actually take up leadership and really partake of it I thought you'd never ask that's my favorite question because gentlemen for better or for worse we are operating in a male dominated environment and one of my sayings is it takes enlightened men and brave women to change the world things change in the world when men are actually enlightened by the power of the Holy Spirit and I've seen this all over the world who are the enlightened men enlightened men are generally men who have professional wives and or have daughters and or have daughters because what invariably happens is the men and I've had so many of these conversations and I've you know I've all my entire career has been in male dominated environment when men actually realize wait a minute this is not what I want for my daughter I want my daughter to be treated with respect I want my daughter to be able to make choices and so forth but then all of a sudden men start thinking differently and I've asked men all over the world if you are what are you afraid of if you are not willing to share power with women what is it at the core that you are afraid of because God created us in a way that we are the most effective if we are balanced and there is so much research that shows this when men and women lead together they are much much more effective much much more effective so the data is out there we can be but God knew what he was doing in the first place because he created us as equals and he created male and female in the image of God to basically rule the world and if we say well ya but sin happened well quite frankly sin happened and Adam and Eve both sinned and if we are here as Christians and we are basically saying you will be done on earth as it is in heaven then I think we need to look at combined leadership we need to look at drawing out the best in each other and really gentlemen you have nothing to be afraid of it actually can work incredibly well but we need enlightened men thank you so we need enlightened men to support women to take up more responsibilities and we are defining enlightened men as men under the authority of the Holy Spirit who look and see the beauty of God's creation in women and support them towards that if you have some questions or comments some papers going around please do put your questions and comments on those paper we will be picking them up when we come back from the break before we take the break speak to us we will come back and speak to us of some of the habits of women keeping influence that is positive that is transformational but before then speak to us about some of the things that then derail the women so you find that they actually are in a position to influence transformationally but then they are derailed along that path then the influence becomes negative bringing a lot of problems in the community or society where they are that's a really loaded question and in 30 seconds we will try to adjust this but there is so much to this a lot of us have not been socialized once we get away from the village where women are working together and supporting each other and we see it with the trust banks and with microfinance and so forth but once we get away from that women are generally not socialized to actually support each other and have you heard about the queen bee syndrome the queen bee syndrome is basically a woman gets to the top and then she cuts off everyone else who is coming close to her and that is often what men point to listen women don't support each other men know how to support each other but women don't support each other one of the things we have to actually learn and this is socialized that women actually support each other and I see it in the boardroom all the time I have the opportunity to chair multiple boards and I see it all the time you know Ruth you may make an incredibly cogent comment and this happens in leadership teams and everywhere so Ruth you make a very very good comment now the single woman in the room if there are any will actually say Ruth that's a really great point but then John makes exactly the same comment it's like he took notes from Ruth John makes it the same comment and invariably another man or another woman in the room will say oh John that's such a great point in the meantime we have diminished Ruth because Ruth was the one who made the point in the first place now it takes a very skilled leader to actually pick that up to pick up that dynamic if women start to be socialized to support other women just as they would support other men it will make a whole difference and I've seen the dynamic change in rooms where women's voices are respected when men's voices are respected and also often and I happen to be married to a quiet man really intelligent intelligent dynamics will not just allow one person to dominate and it's often allowed man they will not allow that person to dominate they will actually bring out the voices of the quiet ones because that means we respect the loud ones but we also respect the deep thinkers the quiet ones they are male or female voices so socialization could be one of the derailers for women in leadership in view of either a lack of support or a deliberate disconnection from the support system that's it very interesting thank you so much viewers and thank you so much the congregation who are here we are going to take a short break when we come back we will speak about habits of maintaining exceptional leadership we will continue to have a conversation with Dr. Hatter here and then we will take up your comments and questions when we come back we will take a short break thank you so much the women ministries emphasis we are talking about Christian women in leadership thank you so much sister Ruth and Dr. Hatter that's been quite a thing two things should you fall fall fast and fall forward we are just having a discussion and I wonder what would have happened had Jesus met a man at the well I wonder whether the man would have gone and spread the news and if it were a man maybe in our local Uga yamta they say Abda wange kuwa kwenyeba raza then if it were the woman who experienced her or Jesus resurrection if it were a man maybe my thinking holy thinking they would have thought that was a lie so women our mothers our sisters our wives they all play a key role and just to get examples we will do the song four five six my lord and I because a great example one from whom we should borrow is Jesus my lord and I four five six Pressure is here to me He loves to play to show one thing about the afternoon session went online viewers this is when we get to learn and learn some things so you've listened carefully for this song the last refrain and so we well they sang it correctly or we sang it correctly but let me just point it out there's some who do this and so we work together my lord and I but how we ought to sing is and so we dwell together my lord okay then so let's watch that so we can repeat the fourth stanza but again let's try okay then the first line He knows that I am longing somewhere he's all to win and so he bid me go and speak the loving word for him so the second line that's where you have that was okay but when the next one He bids me tell his wondrous love and what so we walk to learn something new great so let's try the fourth stanza fourth sixth two is an assurance that Jesus is ours so stanza two of the song I'll invite the ladies to sing not that it calls for submission but we only mean the greatest person to whom we should submit is who to God to God okay so not suggesting that men should not submit to God but ladies you'll do the second stanza of perfect submission perfect delight blessed assurance Jesus is mine blessed assurance Jesus is mine water for purchase of God conversation we are having with dr christian women and leadership and we are having it on this blessed day which is the women ministry's day of prayer and before we went into the break we had laid to rest the misconception that leadership is about having a position either in the office in the politics or in the community and we are saying that leadership is influence and we can have influence whether we have the position or we don't have positions of authority we are always influencing the kind of influence that we aspiring to is transformational influence transformational leadership and we are referring to that as when call of God on our lives through the gifts and talents he's given unto us meets the greatest need of the people or the humanity around us and we have spoken about some of the things that may stand in the way of women exercising their leadership to the fullest potential and we've spoken about previous failure can stand in the way we've spoken about self esteem issues we've spoken about culture but we are here to encourage the men the women the young people of this church we are saying that all that the powerful message Jesus Christ the Messiah as Lord was given to a woman who in her own time had a lot of shame to carry around at the woman at the well but she put it aside and went to do the gospel ministry of influence in the community of her people we are speaking about putting it down the message that Jesus Christ his reason and his life was also given to a woman who previously was not necessarily one of the esteem so we can live behind the things that may hold us steps inhibitors that may stop us from actually influencing to the glory of God by remembering that this is about the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ it's about the fear of God where we find wisdom so Hata let's speak then about we have spoken about some of the ways the leadership can be derailed and that's about either the socialization do not get the support we need or deliberately cutting off support would like to speak then about if you like habits of keeping connected so that our leadership our influence is bringing transformation in the communities where we find ourselves how do we keep connected what are some of the things that would keep us connected so that our leadership actually has the positive transformational influence I'm going to speak very personal right now because I think I would be remiss to just talk about how many leadership books I read and whatever because I think so many so many things that really matter happen in our home they happen we make decisions every day in our home and I spoke briefly about my grandmother just looking at some of the questions that came through maybe I just need to talk about this my grandmother came from a home of very prosperous farmers, theologians and she ended up marrying what some people would have thought was below her station but my grandfather was a very good very good businessman and so forth and things were fine until this was a Lutheran environment until my grandmother decided to become a Seventy Adventist Christian and when she decided to become an Adventist she was persuaded in her own mind my grandfather dragged her to the local pastor the Lutheran minister and so forth but my grandmother very much like Luther actually said you show me from the scriptures that I am wrong if you can show me from the scriptures that I am wrong I will come back but of course the pastor couldn't do that he had a lot of influence was so upset with my grandmother and he was so upset with that pastor who couldn't persuade his wife that he never went to that church again he just completely cut off everything but he wanted to use every force possible and he was empowered by my grandmother's family to use every force possible to keep my grandmother from going to that church with those miserable people quote unquote and my grandfather used every force possible and he beat my grandmother to the point that she was black and blue but she felt no pain and my grandmother was pregnant and she said I cannot do this any longer so because she had brought quite a bit of property in the family they split the property and my grandmother left to protect her children so she left with her two daughters with my mother pregnant at the time and had to leave her son behind the son was the oldest so my grandmother during this time basically took her part of the property and built it out took her part of the property prospered and within two years my grandfather had run everything into the ground so after two years he came back my grandfather came back and it broke my grandmother's heart because she had to leave her son behind but after two years he came back my grandfather came back to come back and that he would never abuse her again and my grandmother very clearly laid out the boundaries and initially my grandfather had been so violent and he wanted to kill the very child that my grandmother was carrying which was my mother and only God can work things like this because when they came together as a couple my grandfather never became a Seventh Day Adventist Christian but my mother became his favorite child he just loved her to bits and interestingly enough because they had a big house my grandmother passed away and grandfather actually opened his house so the Seventh Day Adventist Church could meet in his house so until my grandfather's death our church met in his house why am I sharing that story I think it's really important particularly for women to be economically self sufficient this is why I am encouraging young women to go to school study make sure you have some choices because if you don't have economic choices it's very very difficult so having some economic self sufficiency is incredibly important God did not put you in this world to be abused you need to know your boundaries you need to know what you have been put here for and I would be the last person to say this is easy we are dealing we are living in a world where there is a lot of heartache and women have not always been treated well but I think if you still have a choice be careful be careful who you marry and the most important decision other than following God is whom you marry that person will make or break you ladies please look at how your future father-in-law is treating his wife look at how your future son or your future husband is treating his mother because we should not have any illusions that the husband is going to treat us better than he treats his mother or what he has seen from his father so look open your eyes your dignity and your self respect and your worth is not dependent on the person to whom you are married and I think this is what needs to get into our schools if you marry the right person it is bliss yes there are problems and sometimes we don't like each other but the reality is that God created us for companionship but your worth and your value in spite of what culture tells us your worth and your value is not dependent on the person to whom you are married so marry well be smart and I've taught women over at Strathmore Business School in high level women's programs and so forth so many women are afraid to achieve professionally because they are worried that their husbands are not going to like it and that they can't deal with it and this is actually very sad and it's very sad because because quite frankly we should rejoice in each other's successes and I think this is where the Christian men you gentlemen you have to pull up your socks and know who you are in Christ and if your wife happens to make more money than you do then praise the Lord for it and see how you can encourage each other and support each other because you are a precious son of God and if God has blessed you with a woman who is accomplished then rejoice in her accomplishments just like she should rejoice in your accomplishments does that make sense are we connecting on this because it's so important because it's so important this is so important we talk a lot about we weep with those who weep we're very good at weeping with those who weep but what about rejoicing with those who rejoice rejoice in each other's successes celebrate each other's successes because God wants us to be the head and not the tail and my father in law always used to say when Christians sit in the back row they are allowing the devils to sit in the front row so my father in law always used to sit in the front row because he didn't want the devils to sit in the front row you seem to have you seem to be what I'm hearing you say heta is perhaps one of the habits is to have as many enlightened men around us as we can and therefore let me add some comments we have here I think we appreciate your comments we appreciate your questions and just we are speaking about the habits of keeping exceptional transformational leadership going whether we are looking at it from our emphasis today is women but I think that also goes for men the young people that we have around so we have some comments in line with just having as many enlightened men as we can and remember we are defining enlightened men as men under the authority of the Holy Spirit and somebody says that sometimes women are kept down by fear and just fear of either being dumped or fear of their marriage collapsing or their marriage having problems so they sit down even though they can tell that there are some negative things happening in the home that are actually influencing even the children negatively so when women find themselves in those situations what kind of wisdom do you have as you contemplate that somebody is asking where do we find these enlightened men are they in church are they in corporate world are they in our local communities please expand where do we find these enlightened men and the final thought seems there are a bit of questions about men and to the exceptional being of women we have another question that says how can you help a Christian man who has a very negative attitude towards women so really as we speak Habit 1 is being connected to as many enlightened men as we can so just speak to that and then you can go into Habit 2 how do women stay connected to transformational leadership continue making a difference in that community those are excellent excellent questions in terms of how do you how do you create boundaries in the home in particular this is real when I say it takes enlightened men and brave women to change the world those descriptions are chosen very carefully because data shows that women are 10 times more fearful than men and this is because women have a lot fewer safe places than men and the research particularly in Africa shows that actually particularly young girls they are the most afraid around the house there is no safe space for young girls for young women so the question is really a fundamental one and quite frankly there is no easy answer I would be doing a disservice to say this is easy the situations in the home are critical they are difficult in some cases and I think like I said with my grandmother creating boundaries is important if the relationship is destructive God does not want you to stay in an abusive situation if you see if you can understand why your husband is behaving the way he does understand ask for wisdom because he may simply be threatened he may be lying because he is trying to cover something up men don't want to be they don't want to feel inferior and if you look at the history and really the causes for shame the first emotion that Adam and Eve felt after sinning was shame and there is a lot of research that is being done by reputable psychologists who are actually looking at what is the source of shame it came from the very beginning after the fall and for men the biggest get this gentleman this woman so if I say to my husband you're an idiot that's going to affect him very badly ladies we have incredible power use it wisely use it wisely use it thoughtfully how you speak to your husband when God created Adam and Eve and the Bible simply translates that Eve is the helper this is the same word that is used for the Holy Spirit God created us in His image in their image created them so women God has given us wisdom let's use it and be mindful of the power the power that we have so these are difficult situations in the home only you and God know what's going on in that home but be aware you need to have boundaries you are a daughter of God try and find out why your husband is behaving the way he does ask the Holy Spirit to enable you to be your husband's wise council because remember a thoughtful word turns away a lot of wrath and see how God can rectify that situation but there are no easy answers thank you Heta but what I hear is really the meaning of helper as intended by God it is the presence of the Holy Spirit wise council that the women bring so as we speak about the enlightened men we are probably talking about brave women who are seeking God so habit number one we need the enlightened men and wise women who are seeking God I would really focus on the point that I made about boundaries it's really important we talk in the business world a lot about having the right people on the bus that's important is getting the wrong people off the bus we don't talk a lot about that but that is actually more important and the reason I'm saying that is because we need to it comes to the boundaries people in your life who constantly tear you down who constantly pull you down you don't need people like that in your life Hans and I were just listening to a great speaker who said God is calling us to love everyone but there are people in your life who are so negative you can't handle them so it doesn't mean you have to hang around people who are negative in your life eliminate the people who are negative in your life that doesn't mean constructive criticism so that's different but people who will constantly tear you down constantly criticize you constantly oh you can't do this don't respect you get rid of those people that's a very important habit so that's really the second and then the flip side of that is have wise mentors I am so incredibly grateful that I married to a wise man I'm so incredibly grateful that I have people in my life who are mentoring me in different aspects so for example I have a business coach who basically works with me because I have a tendency to always overload myself I don't know when to stop and she is actually helping me to say no in the right places at the right time to sift through things so having mentors find people who actually have your best interest at heart and are really willing to to work with you and advise and you're never too old to have mentors thank you so the second part is boundaries and within those boundaries is to know who is on your bus who are the people who need to come off the bus who needs to be on the bus and as we learned this morning we have wise counsel wise mentors around us Habit number three you mentioned the work you can't lead if if you are not physically emotionally mentally and spiritually balanced so I think really staying balanced and watching your diet watching getting exercise making sure that you are physically fit that you are mentally challenged so many people are worried about getting Alzheimer's well if I keep my mind alert hopefully I won't get it I mean there are doctors in the room who can talk about that much more persuasively than I could but having balance between your physical your emotional and spiritual well being balance is so important because we can exaggerate one over the other and we need we need all of them to really have a holistic holistic life and to be able to lead holistically thank you thank you viewers and audience if you have questions or comments please there's some papers going around you can write and send them over so that we can have them as we wait for some comments Hata speak to us then how do we start nurturing the young people to actually take up leadership influence transformational influence as they grow older that's a really really good question I think particularly with children we need to be mindful that they are much much more aware of what we do than what we say my nephew who is a son to us we now have two little grandchildren one is seven one is five and Daniel was driving and this other car kept cutting him off and Daniel said that idiot driver and he really got upset with the other driver who was reckless and little Jacob from the back seat says daddy why are you calling that man an idiot and I think the main thing and it is so telling the main thing is our young people look at what we do much more than what we say and so how do we nurture I think the first thing is by example and empower our young people and I think this is I'm so amazed that the talent in this church Niko we haven't spoken yet but I'm sure Niko did a phenomenal job at the power point this morning by the way I'm told by the time there is camp meeting there will be screens here right so you could have actually seen seen the presentation but there is just so much talent and it's it's really really encouraging our young people because that's how you gain how you gain confidence and let them fail what I find remarkable here and it's particularly true in the African cultures that I have been exposed to. We've lived now in Nairobi for 8 years and by the way we are going to be permanent residents of this beautiful country so this is a big milestone for us but this is almost an unwillingness to acknowledge that we make mistakes listen folks we are all fallible and let's give our young people the opportunity to say hey I made a mistake I broke dishes whatever and let them learn from those mistakes and let them lead just provide the wise council let them lead I think really our young people leave the church often because they haven't been they haven't been encouraged and let's not allow that to happen here let's encourage our young people and guide them empower them as much as we can let them fail and let them pick themselves up and help us let us pick them up as well thank you thank you very much really that is doable lead by example allow them to lead allow them to fail and learn from the mistakes and encourage them to keep going because it's a journey they fall forward and wake up and continue just as we encouraging the women and all to fall forward and wake up continue with the journey somebody has a question here and they're asking how can women especially those who are in leadership positions overcome the impositor syndrome that is such a good question I'm not sure you ever do I probably have more letters behind my name except I think we have a couple doctors here I think they have more letters behind their names but ladies I think it's just there is an insecurity gene somewhere deep down and I'm not sure we will get rid of it on this side of eternity honest to goodness I mean I have the privilege of rubbing shoulders with some of the most accomplished women in the world and you would recognize their names and in quiet moments we all admit that at some times we suffer from the impositor syndrome you kind of have to somehow this insecurity in the recesses of your tummy that tell you you're not good enough and if they just knew how much you don't know they wouldn't leave you in this job and I just think we have to suck it up and when that voice comes and says you're not good enough I think sometimes there is someone sitting on our shoulders and says you're not good enough you're not good enough we just have to say go away I am enough I am enough and God would not have put me in this place I didn't think I was enough and I think we have to rest we have to rest in that knowledge and that comfort we are enough I suppose that puts a lot of confusion and fear to the rest that the impositor syndrome feeling like we are not good enough we are not deserving of this position I don't know so much if we let that we can continue doing the work that is before us knowing that we are enough in the Lord and that He is guiding us thank you so much for that I believe a lot of women will go away today feeling enough and really that is the encouragement message so we just as we come to the back end of our conversation today we picked up quite a bit of lessons I don't know if there is something you wanted to touch on as you know some of your parting messages we are talking about Christian women and leadership on this day of the women ministry's emphasis day any other comments that you may actually want to share I take a lot of comfort from the fact that truth is progressive and that we are all growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ I mentioned in my sermon this morning Luther was this incredible reformer who stood in his strength and not in his own strength but when he said here I stand I can do no other he had gone as far as he could and Luther made three major concessions he knew that Sunday was not the Sabbath so he made a concession that is work that needs to be done Sunday is not the Sabbath Saturday is the Sabbath so that needs to move forward the immortality of the soul the way we are looking at it is wrong and infant baptism is wrong but he basically felt he could go only so far and I have taken tremendous challenge from that because I come from a Lutheran heritage and I really believe the gospel is progressive and if we pray every day you will be done on earth as it is in heaven then I think as Christian men and women we actually need to pray that God shows us what that will is and that we work here it's not just that someday we go to heaven that's great I look forward to that but God is calling us to make a difference here on earth as it is in heaven and he's calling us to love one another to do justice to love mercy and to walk humbly before God and if this world is going to be touched by the gospel because gospel means good news then we need every man every woman and every child with the willingness to reflect the love of God and so I really want to close with the words these incredible words from Joel and where where the prophet Joel in Joel 2 says the Lord said I will give my spirit to everyone your sons and your daughters will prophesy your old men will have dreams and your young men will see visions in those days I will even give my spirit to my servants both men and women and dear friends I think the best is yet to come I think we will see the Holy Spirit being poured out in ways that we cannot possibly imagine and then it will not be a question of are you male or female are you young or old and let's start that now thank you I have one more last question here and if there is someone in the audience who would like to make a comment I think we have a microphone up here if you have a burning comment we have a few minutes you can start making your way to the front we have a microphone here but one final question that we have is how can somebody who has actually failed and made a mistake that has affected other people start picking up the pieces to actually make it right that's a really really profound question and I think Jesus basically said it better than I possibly could and that is if you have heard someone leave your gift at the altar and go and fix it now it's your job to go and ask for forgiveness it is if the other person is not willing to accept your apology your efforts to make amends that is not on you it's their responsibility but what is your responsibility is you go and do everything in your power to fix it because actions have consequences actions have consequences actions have consequences and even sometimes when God has forgiven us our actions our negative actions have negative consequences and God is calling us don't pretend everything is fine go and try and make amends leave your gift at the altar and go and make amends whether the other person accepts it or not you have to leave that in God thank you thank you very much so we have been speaking to women and leadership we have picked up a few and men because we have learned that critical to that success are enlightened men and they are found everywhere men were under the influence and authority of the Holy Spirit we need them we have learned about leadership as influence we have spoken about transformational leadership where our gifts our talents that bring joy to our hearts people around us that is what influence we should aspire to influence that brings our gifts and our talents to bear to the needs of the people around us we have also learned that perhaps failure and self esteem can stand in the way of us actually living out the leadership the gifts that God has in us and we have learned that the social system we need to be deliberate about who are on our journey of leadership and we need to actually have boundaries in the right places we have learned that balance whether it's physical emotional spiritual habits that bring us into balance are important as we exercise leadership and we have learned that for the next generation let's lead by example if we are good transformational leaders the next generation will come up with good transformational leaders let us allow them to practice their leadership let us allow them to fail and let us allow them to make corrections to the mistakes and where we have failed previously we can apologize we can make amends for the mistakes and the failures of our past but we for sure need to fall forwards we fall we wake up we keep going because the power of the gospel it's about the Lord Jesus Christ and the good news of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ in everywhere we need to find ourselves where we are exercising our influence thank you very much thank you thank you so much to the leadership of this church to our pastors, to our elders thank you for the women ministry's day for putting this day together may the Lord bless you and keep you thank you so much for this afternoon thank you thank you very much for the wonderful discussion the question was asked where are those men men in this church believe these are the men of God all the men say amen amen thank you so without a doubt these are inspired these are the watchers men of God so we'll do the last team but before we do that again just to refresh our minds as we prepare for the camp meeting remember the song weave a story to tell to the nation so we'll do that song then after that I'll invite all of us to stand for the closing song which is all for that flame of living fire so the camp meeting theme song weave a story to tell to the nations please let us change the world those listening online we can change the world may our brothers, our sons our spouses our grandparents parents in law join us in changing the world this evening may I take this opportunity to thank our speaker professor you have enlightened us you have taught us we have listened we have gotten many things we live here affirmed ladies are we not affirmed there is something we can do it is within our reach it is within our hands let us be brave and move out let us not fear may we be supported so that we may change the world by being brave our children will take our example our daughters will fall us our sons will fall us and will be a different community as children of God we must be role models thank you so much we have learned a lot may I also take this opportunity to say thank you Jesus thank you God we looked forward to this day we have been planning and waiting for it and we thank the almighty that it has come and this is the end of the program and we say thank you God for making it possible for us to reach this day to listen and even the program is online you can listen to it any time you want to remind yourself of the discussions and even the salmon that we had in the morning the other opportunity I take is to thank the pastorate led by our senior pastor Pasta Nyaga and pastor Ogada and pastor Prono for being there for availing support for helping us and leading the way for us to reach this far they have been behind the program I also thank all the ladies thank you so much that you found time to come to be here in the morning to be here in the afternoon thank you if you didn't come it would not have been our day because you came to receive the blessings that the Lord intended to give us may you live here with the blessings of the Almighty and this coming week walked all you are a child of God you have received the blessings that will enable us to move until the end of the year and the days to come I thank all the women who are honored this day the women who have been blessed the women that are role models the women to whom our children our daughters in law our grandchildren are looking up to and they can say our parents made it there is no valley no mountain that can be difficult thank you so much for gracing the occasion those who are not able to come but watched online we thank you we know you are with us and you received the blessings even the prayers that were offered for the women I also take this opportunity to thank our team the team that always the technical team that enables this program to be aired through the KBC in the morning and this afternoon through the different channels media channels thank you so much may God bless you and I want to thank my sister the one who conducted the afternoon program thank you you received the insight from the almighty and your expression enabled us you used our mind you were with us you knew what we wanted and you were able to capture our mind the questions you posed and the clarifications you made so that it is clear for all of us who are listening and watching may God bless you thank you so much as we start the week keep in mind the Lord has blessed us don't leave the blessings in the church may you go with them walk the whole week focusing on the almighty and next time we have a program there is a lot we can learn every afternoon may God bless you as we end the day this evening much Mrs. Masinde closing remarks also to thank the women ministry for giving us myself and Joseph a chance to lead on such a day we are honoured let's arise as we do him number 264 Hencewa kufikisha, kufisha kwekisha joguhaichen wa kutiawe hivisha la mwenandzea para jamut hakehiki wapakunkati lafisha kwa kutiawe lahan kufisha kwa kutiawe lehi Oh, na kikisewe kufisha We've shown so bright insane, which may their souls to cast the spirit, Lord, which dwell, which make cold heart with allergy, but spirit. We thank you because you, we thank you for the subath day that we've had. We thank you for the discussion that we've taken part in. We thank you for encouraging us that you created us. We are your children. We are worthy just like any other human being that you have created. I thank you for all the women, young and old in this church. I thank you for all the work that you are doing in them and through them. I thank you as well for the enlightened men who are among us and without us. Lord, I pray that you continue to support them that they may support us. I pray that we continue to walk together as a church, looking for your second coming. I pray even as we depart from here, your presence may continue to dwell in us and with us until we meet again. I've prayed all this in Jesus' name. Amen.