 Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE, presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and it's ecosystem partners. Welcome back everyone, we're here live in San Jose for Big Data SV, Big Data Silicon Valley. I'm John Furrier, cohost of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Jaspreet Singh, founder and CEO of Druva and Jake Burns, VP of Cloud Services of Live Nation Entertainment. Welcome to theCUBE. So what's going on with cloud? Apps are out there, backup, recovery, what's going on? So we went all in with AWS in late 2015 and through 2016 we moved all of our corporate infrastructure into AWS and I think we're a little bit unique in that situation. So in terms of our posture, we're 100% cloud. Jaspreet, what's going on with you guys in the cloud? Because we've talked to them before, with a lot of the apps in the cloud, backup is really important. What's the key thing that you guys are doing together with Live Nation? Sure, so I think the notion of data is now pretty much everywhere, right? The data is captured, controlled in data center, now it's getting decentralized into getting into apps and ecosystems and software and services deployed either at the edge or in the cloud. As the data gets more and more decentralized, the notion of data management, beadbacker, be de-discovery, anything has to get more and more centralized. And we strongly believe the epicenter of this whole data management has to move to cloud. So Druva is a SaaS-based provider for data management and we work with Live Nation to predict the apps not just in the data center, but also at the edge and also their cloud data center, their applications deployed in the cloud, be it Live Nation or Ticketmaster. And what are some of the workloads you guys are backing up with Druva? Yeah, so it's pretty much all corporate IT applications, typical things you'd find in any IT shop really. So we have our financial systems and we have some of our smaller ticketing systems and corporate websites, things of that nature. So it's like we have 120 applications that are running and it's just really kind of one of everything. We were talking before we came on camera about the history of computing and the cloud has obviously changed the game. Well, how would you compare the cloud as a trend relative to operationalizing the role of data and obviously GDPR ran somewhere? These are things that are now with the perimeter gone. There's worries. And so how do you guys look at the cloud? So Jay, I'll start with you. You can compare and contrast where we've come from and where we're going. Roll the cloud, significant primary expanding. How would you compare that? And how would you talk to someone who says, hey, I'm still in the data center world. What's going on with cloud? Well, yeah, it's significant and it's expanding both. And it's really transforming the way we do business. So just from a high level, things like shortening the time to market for applications, going from three to six months just to get a proof of concept started to today in the cloud, being able to innovate really by trying things, we try 20 different things, decide what works what doesn't work and at very low cost. So it allows us to really do things that just weren't possible before. So also, we move more quickly because we're not afraid of making mistakes. If we provision infrastructure and we don't get it right the first time, we just change it. That's something that we would just never be able to do previously in the data center. So everything's different. And as a service model has been kind of key. Is the consumption on your end different, like radically different? Give an example like how much time would it save or taken to use the traditional approaches? Oh, for sure. And the role of IT has completely changed because instead of worrying about nuts and bolts and servers and storage arrays and data centers, we could really focus on the things that are important to the business and those things delivering results for the business. So bringing value, bringing applications online and trying things that are going to help us do business rather than focusing on all of the minutia. All of that stuff's now been outsourced to a cloud provider. So really, we have a similar head count in staff but we're focused on things that bring value rather than things that are just kind of frivolous. Chester, you guys have been very successful startup growing rapidly. The cloud been a good friend. The trend is your friend with the cloud. What's different and operationally that you guys are tapping into? What's that tailwind for Dhruva that's making you guys successful? And is it the ease of use? Is it the ease of consumption? Is it the tech? What's the secret to success with Dhruva? Sure, so we believe cloud is a very big business transformation trend, more than our technology trend, right? It's how you consume a service with a fixed SLA, with a fixed service agreement across the globe, right? So it's ease of consumption, it's simplicity of use, it's orchestration, it's cost control, all those things. So our promise to our customers is the complexity of data management, backups, archives, data protection, which is a risk mitigation project, can be completely abstracted by a simple service. For example, live nation consumers consume the Dhruva service through Amazon Marketplace. So think about consuming a critical service like data management, through a simplicity of Marketplace, pay as you go, as you consume the service, across the globe, in the US, in Australia, in Europe. It also helps the vendors like us to innovate better, because we have a control environment to understand how different customers are using the service, and be able to orchestrate better security posture, better threat prevention, better cost control devops. So it improves the posture of the service being offered, and helps the customer consume it. You guys are both industry veterans, by today's standards, unless you're like 24 doing, some of the cryptocurrency stuff that doesn't know the old IT baggage. How would you guys view the multi-cloud conversation? Because we hear that all the time. Multi-cloud has come up so many times. What does it mean? Jake, what does multi-cloud actually mean? Is it the same workload across multiple clouds? In fact, they have multiple clouds. Certainly there will be multiple clouds, but so help us digest what that even means these days. It's a great question, and it's a really interesting topic. Multi-cloud is one of those things where there's so many benefits to using more than one cloud provider, but there are also a lot of pitfalls. So people really underestimate the difference in the technology and the complexity of managing the technology when you change cloud providers. I'm talking primarily about infrastructure to service providers like Amazon Web Services. So I think there's a lot of good reasons to be multi-cloud, to get the best features out of a different provider, to not have the risk of having all your data in one place with one vendor. But it needs to be done in such a way where you don't take that hit in overhead and complexity. And I think that's kind of a prohibitive barrier for most enterprises. And what are the big pitfalls that you see? Is it mainly underestimating the stack complexity between them, or is it more of just operational questions? I mean, what is some of the pitfalls that you've observed? So moving from a typical IT data center environment to a public cloud provider like AWS, you're essentially asking all of your technical staff to start speaking a new language. Now, if you were to introduce a second cloud provider to that environment, now you're asking them to learn a third language as well. And that's a lot to ask. So you have really two scenarios where you can make that work today without using a third party. And that's ask all of your staff to know both, and that's just not feasible. Or have two teams, one for each cloud platform, that's really not something businesses want to do. So I think the real answer is to rely on a third party that can come in and kind of extract one of those cloud complexities of one of those cloud providers out. So you don't have to directly manage it. And in that way, you can get the benefit of being multi-cloud, that data protection of being multi-cloud, but not have to introduce that complexity to the environment. So it provides an abstraction layer or some sort of software approach? Yeah, like for example, if you have your primary systems in AWS and you use a software like Druva Phoenix to back up your data and you put that data into a second cloud provider, you don't have to have an account with that second cloud provider. You don't have to have the risk of associate with that or complexity associated with that. I think that's a very... And that's where you look for differentiation. We look at Vendee and say, hey, don't make me work harder and add new staff. Solve the problem. Yeah, it's all about solving problems, right? And that's why we're doing this. So Druva, talk about this thing because we talked about it earlier about, to me, we have people all around Azure, well they have Office 365, of course they're going to have Microsoft. A lot of people have a lot going on in AWS. So maybe we're not there at the world where you can actually provision across clouds the same workload, but it'd be nice to have that someday if it was seamless. But I think that might be the nirvana. But at the end of the day, the enterprise might have a lot of Office 365 and some Azure. But I got mostly Amazon over here, I'm doing a lot of development on, doing the DevOps and I'm on on-prem. How do you talk to that? Because that's like, you got to back up Office 365. You got to do the on-prem thing. You got to do the Amazon thing. How do you guys solve that problem? And what's the conversation? Absolutely, I think over time we believe best of breed will win. So people will deploy different type of cloud for different workloads, beat SaaS, hosted IaaS or platform like PaaS. When they do that, when they host multiple services, softwares to deploy services, I think it's hard to control where the data will go. What we can orchestrate or anybody can orchestrate is the centralizing the data management part of it. So Druva has the best posture, has the best coverage across multiple heterogeneous clouds, be it services like Office 365, box of Salesforce, or be it platforms like S3 or DynamoDB through our protocol Apollo or hosted platforms like what LiveNation is using through our Phoenix product line. So getting a breadth of coverage, consistency of policies on a single platform is what will make enterprises adopt what's best out there without worrying about how do you build abstraction for data management. Jake, what's the biggest thing that you see people who are moving to the cloud for the first time? What are they struggling with? Is it the idea that there's no perimeter? Is it staff training? I mean, what are some of the, as people move from test dev and or start to put in production in the cloud, what are some of the critical things they should think about? Yeah, there's so many of them, but first really it's just getting buy in, you know, from your technical staff because, you know, in an enterprise environment you bring in a cloud provider, it's very easily framed the whole, as you know, we're just being outsourced, right? So I think getting past that barrier first and really getting through to folks and letting them know that really this is good for you. This is not bad for you. You're going to be learning a new skill, very valuable skill, and you're going to be more effective at your job. So I think that's the first thing. After that, once you start moving to the cloud, then the thing that becomes apparent very quickly is cost control. So, you know, the thing with public cloud is, you know, before you had this really kind of narrow range of what IT could cost with the traditional data center, now we have this huge range. And yes, it can be cheaper than it was before, but it could also be far more expensive than it was before. So services for all are so you just not paying attention both or? Well, you essentially you're giving your engineers a blank check, so. So you need to have some governance and you know, you really need to think about things that you didn't have to think about before. You're paying for consumption, so you have to really watch your consumption. So take me through the mental model of deduplication in the cloud, because I'm trying to like visualize it or rock it a little bit, okay. So the cloud's out there, data's everywhere. And do I move the compute to the data? How does the backup and recovery and data management work? And what's, does dedupe change with cloud? Because some people think, well, I got my dedupe already, I'm on premise of the news is these old solutions. How does dedupe specifically change in the cloud and how does it? Any scale changes, you're looking, you know, the best dedupe systems, if you look historically, you know, were 100 terabyte, 200 terabyte dedupe indexes, data domain, the scale changes, you know, customers expect massive scale in cloud. A largest customer has 10 petabyte in a single dedupe index. It's a 100x scale difference compared to what traditional systems could do. Number two, you could create a quality of service which is not really bound by a fixed, you know, algorithm like, you know, variable length or whatever, right? So you can optimize a dedupe very clearly for the right workload, the right dedupe for the right workload. So you may dedupe off of 365 differently than your VMware instances compared to your Oracle databases or your endpoint workloads. So it helps you, as a service business model, helps you create a custom tailored solution for the right data and bring the scale. We don't have the complexity of scale, but you get the benefit of scale all, you know, simply managing the cloud. Jake, what's it like working with Dhruva? What's the benefit that they bring to you guys? Yeah, so specifically around backups for our enterprise systems, you know, that's a difficult challenge to solve natively in the cloud, especially if you're going to be limited to using cloud native tools. So it's really, it's a really perfect use case for a third-party provider, you know. People don't think about this much, but in the old days in the data center, you know, our backups went off-site into a vault, they're on tapes, it was very difficult for us to lose those or for them to be erased accidentally or even intentionally. Once you go into the cloud, especially if you're all in with the cloud like we are, everything's easier, right? And so accidents are easier also, you know, deleting your data is easier. So, you know, what we really want and what a lot of our customers want. And security too is a potential one. Absolutely, yeah. And so what we want is we want to get some of that benefit, you know, back that we had from that inefficiency that we had beforehand. We love all the benefits of the cloud. We want to have our data protected also. So this is a great role for a company like Dhruva to come in and offer a product like Phoenix and say, you know, we're going to handle, we're going to handle your backups for you essentially, right? So you're going to put it in a safe place, we're going to secure it for you, and we're going to make sure it's secure for you. And doing it software as a service, like Dhruva does with Phoenix, I think is the absolute right way to go. This is exactly what you need. Well, congratulations, Chief Burns, Vice President of Cloud Services. Thank you. Live Nation Entertainment just been saying, CEO Dhruva, great to have you on. Congratulations on your success. Thank you. Inside the tornado called Cloud Computing. A lot more stuff coming. More CUBE coverage coming up after this short break. Right back.