 Okay, hello, welcome to another episode of the podcast. It's me plus you is us. My name is Elaine. And my name is Kwame. And today, we're going to be having a conversation. Doing some marriage counseling. That's if we had marriage counseling. So for context, we didn't go through the traditional method of counseling and they're just not traditional. I wouldn't say traditional, like, you know, the religious route, if I should put it that way. But maybe for context, explain what is how this religious route looks like in Ghana. As I'm saying, so the religious route often involves some counseling if you're going to get married. So I'm not going to have my camera. If you're going to get married, you do some counseling, couples counseling before you get married, because of course you've not been married before. So they need to take you through or advice you on what to expect, what to note, certain things that may pop up. What would you do if it does pop up? So that's what often happens. You do this a few months before you get married. We didn't go through that. We didn't do that. No. But through a friend of our channel and a friend of work, he is leading some counseling in his church. And he shared the scenarios with us. So he said that we should try it out. So here we are trying it out. And before we go on, I'm just letting Elaine know that her camera is there. Oh, but I was looking here. OK. Her camera is there if she wants to look at people and talk to them. Because she keeps turning here like, OK, I want to look here, but I don't want to look here. So her camera is there. I know. She's looking really pretty over there as well. So I will introduce the scenario. So the theme for the day is building stronger marital bonds. So we'll have a scenario and then an uncomfortable question. And then we discuss. So the first scenario, imagine a married couple where the husband tends to bottle up his stress and pressure from work, never expressing his emotions or seeking support from his spouse. Over time, this lack of healthy coping mechanism leads to increased tension and distance in their marriage. Question one, uncomfortable question one. How do you handle stress and pressure in your life? Are there any ways in which your coping mechanisms have negatively impacted your marriage? Boom! How do you handle stress in your life? Are there any ways your unspoken coping mechanisms have? In which your coping mechanisms, well, difficult word, have negatively impacted your marriage? Spill the juice. OK, so how do I handle stress in my life? Often, I like to distract myself. That is very right. That's how I handle stress. And distracting how? By distracting myself, I mean I'm on my phone a lot. There's a difficulty in the lines being blurred and everything because I'm on my phone a lot because I'm also working. And then I'm on my phone a lot when I feel stressed also to distract myself. So because I work a lot online, I post my stuff out there, people contact me and I'm a freelancer. So I get inspiration, I get contacts, I meet new people and everything online. I'm always on my phone, technically. And when I'm also stressed out as well, then you find me watching a lot of funny videos and just distracting myself. It's basically not speaking up. And when we also have arguments and I don't feel like talking as well, I retreat and then I stay on my phone basically. So it's more like I go into my shell and by my shell it's on my screen. And then I'm quiet, I'm by myself, I'm just enjoying. So where it becomes a problem is where you have to say or I have to say. I don't know if you want to share a shirt. Yeah, I mean, where it becomes a problem is Elaine is, I mean you are the kind of person who likes to open up things you like to like, if this is a map and it's crumpled, your technique is to open up the map and then let's just straighten it out and see where the issue is and see where we're going. I like to talk through things. And it's not always... This is where the difference comes in. It's not always welcome. It's not always wanted. It's not always, I don't always feel like it. Like I sometimes want to talk or be in my bubble or be in my whole for a bit. Can I comment? Yeah, yeah. Can I comment? So I think there are multiple levels to it. So first, crime is coping mechanism is distracting. So whenever it's on his phone, it's unclear when he is coping with something or that he's working or that he's like chilling. So that on itself, sometimes I have to ask like, are you working? Like I want to say something or I want to discuss something, are you working? Or I say like, I don't know if now is the right time. So we have been able to check in on that. But it's also difficult because sometimes it looks, it seems, I'm not saying it is. Like he's not interested in the topic because he's on his phone afterwards or he's not like, it doesn't look like he's actively doing something with the conversation we've had before. So do you get me? Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, he's just on his phone. So then I had to learn that it might not be what it looks like. It might not be that he's not interested. It might be that he's interested, but he has to take a break from it in order to process it. Am I seeing that right? Yeah. Yeah. And then. No, but there's also another level to after that. I mean. I wasn't done with the level. No, go, come in. No, you finish yours. I don't know if I, I think you took me. Okay. So I, yeah. But what I was going to say is that the reason why you also often come in to make sure that we do is based on our experiences from the past, I sometimes will revisit it. Yes. So that's another tricky thing. Grammar can move on without it being really nitty, gritty talked about. I cannot. I want to discuss every single angle. And that's also tiring for him because. Yeah, so we're trying to find that balance. But for me, it gives me a lot of clarity to also hear your perspective on it. Yeah. And it also confirms, I mean, it affirms me and also where I stand and whether I'm not jumping to conclusions that are maybe too rigid or far fetched. Far fetched or like, because I feel something I'm running to that conclusion. Yeah. So that you don't assume wrongly. Yes. So I'm cautious with that. So it helps me to talk through things. And then, yeah. So my coping mechanism, if you've all didn't figure it out yet, I need to sit in it. I mean, I can distract myself off the soapboard, but I also know I have to face certain things. So that is kind of a challenge. That it comes with emotion. So I can be angry or I can be sad. It's mostly sad or disappointed or frustrated with myself. I think those are the things I feel and then I just have to sit in it. So how it has impacted you negatively. I think for you, it can be frustrating that we have to talk through everything. And yeah, that can be tiring. I assume. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes it's tiring. But on the other hand, I think because Krabbe is like distraction and not necessarily want to revisit stuff. And I am like all about the nitty-gritty and talking through things. I think we kind of find the balance. We are finding it. It took a while to find the balance, but we are finding the balance because now I'm also more open to listening and having a conversation. I don't enjoy it as much. But I'm more open. In the beginning, I was very, I was blocking it. I was very defensive about, it's really not necessary. I can't do it. It's now I don't want to do it or it's not necessary for us to even go that deep into it. Let's just, it's more like conflict aversion in a way. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, but over time, I think we are learning to find a balance. And I'm also very much, much, much different from when we started. I mean, it's been how many years? It's a long time. Eight? Yeah. Yeah. I think you've really grown in that sense. Like you want to try for us to talk things through and I think you've also experienced the benefit of talking things through because then there's nothing hanging over us and there's no tension in the room. There's no, you know, because Elaine can't like function after things have not been done. I find it really hard to trust that things are fine when we are not fine. And that's a, that's a major difference between us. And I've also talked already about this with my friends. So I could share it like confidently. Like, okay. Grammy has this foundation of, we're good. Like no matter what, like it's like this foundation underneath anything. Like no matter what happens, we are good. I know, I know, I love you. I know I want to be with you. Like it's this rock solid foundation. I'm not saying I don't feel the same way. I feel the same way about this guy. Don't worry. But for me, I want to actively affirm and do things together and like have quality time and build on it and learn from it. And like it's more an active way and more of a verb for me. While loving for you, it just is. Like you have decided that it's something has clicked and that will be there forever. And I trust that that's true. But for me, it's not like I don't believe in us or like, but it's for me, it's an activity to always keep on growing, to always work on it. And that's also give a different dynamic because when we have conflict or we have a confrontation, afterwards I find it really hard to trust that we're good. Like I want to confirm. You need assurance. You need assurance. It's more like you need assurance than anything. Yeah, but it's also annoying for you because sometimes you don't feel like giving that assurance because you're still with a certain emotion that doesn't necessarily means that you have to step out of it and then confirm me that everything is fine. Yeah, I have to take care of your affirmation before. Yeah, so that is negatively impacted because it is my insecurity that you have to deal with in order for, so that's. Again, it's been a long time and we've been managing. Yeah, so now I don't know if you want to share this with us, I think. So at some point, because I needed to be reaffirmed, otherwise I couldn't even sleep. I don't know if this is good to put out on YouTube, but sometimes you have an argument like it's heated and then Kwame would just turn around and sleep. I'm sure many ladies can, I don't want to generalize, but you have certain people in the relationship that can just turn around and sleep. Yeah, people who cannot. Look, I can turn around and sleep, not like, I don't cast the arguments. I just let you know that, look, it's 11 p.m. We are both tired. Let's just sleep and talk about this tomorrow morning. Because that works for you, but it doesn't work for me. So I would be very heated like in a bed, like I can't sleep. And now I'm all alone with these big feelings. So then we, because that happened... He hates that so much. What? Well, we have to like finish the big feelings before sleep. I... No, not big feelings, big feelings. Big feelings, I'm saying. I hate it so much. Oh, I'm in trouble. No, but I know you don't like that. So we came up with the following solution. Is that after an argument and it's getting late and Carmen feels like tapping out because this is not constructive. And often he's right, I'm not saying he's wrong. Often it's not constructive anymore, but I still have those feelings. So what do you want me to do? Then we would say like, okay, this may be a good time to pause. So we would say not stop, but pause so that it will be addressed tomorrow. So I need that assurance. And then we would hug for 30 seconds. That is okay. That is okay, we are good. So I need to feel that we're good. So how do we do that? Like, of course we're not counting down like 30, 29, no. We just hold for a little bit. And then Carmen would turn around and sleep. And I would also be able to try to sleep. I've just got to hug will be fine. But we don't need that as much anymore lately. I mean, we are barely sleeping anyway. So maybe that's the reason, but we needed that at some point. Yeah. And I think when you are distracted, you're also not looking for that physical connection. Well, when I feel vulnerable after confrontation or an argument or some new insight we gained and it still needs to settle, I really long for that physical like, oh, we're good and just feeling you close, like we're still close. You don't really need that. Like you're so independent in a way. Yeah, but also the practicality of it. I just want to sleep, you know. Yeah, but that's, I don't, if you keep doing that, your hair is going to look funky. It's okay. It actually is okay, it's fine. Okay, let's go to the second scenario. Yeah. So we have planned on doing three scenarios, but where the time is even from this one I can see from our recorder, even for one scenario, I think we're just going to do scenario two. Okay. We'll do part two of this conversation. We're like, we're just happy. We're marriage counseling for us, because as you can see, we need a lot of work. No, we're working on ourselves. We're working on ourselves for sure. Okay, another scenario. Consider a couple who have been married for several years, like us, three and counting and are facing, is it three here? Are facing a difficult financial situation. The husband prioritized finding solutions and providing for the family, but unintentionally overlooks his wife emotional well-being. Reflect on, oh no. Yes, reflect on whether you prioritize your spouse emotional well-being during challenging times and think about how you actively support them and work on building emotional intimacy drawing from the experience of this couple. So the question is, do you prioritize your spouse emotional well-being? How do you support them during difficult times and do you actively work on building emotional intimacy? Yeah, I think this one comes from where we just came from. No, no. It does. It relates it, but this is now about the financial. I think it's a really good topic because financials bring out certain things in people that you didn't even know you were aware of. Like it has to do a lot with the feeling of security and that's why it gets so heated often. But the scenario is the guy is facing some financial challenges. And also the scenario puts the guy in a very traditional role. Yes, so he feels, but maybe that's also can also be coping mechanism that when you're faced with challenges you... Retreats into work. Into, and retreats into what you have known maybe from your own growing up. So if your mom and dad weren't very traditional then you feel like you have to provide. Yeah. So it's possible. This is such a thin-iced type of thing to navigate because on the one hand maybe most men, most men feel like if I'm financially okay, I can think. And if I can think, I can manage my emotions. But I can't even breathe if I feel that I can't provide for my family. And that in itself makes the person retreat or go into solution, solution, solution. While the wife also thinks that, you know what? I love you for you. I love what we have. We're okay. I need you to be here with us. I said, now that you have a child or something or with me here and now. And that's where the clash is. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, well, I mean, we're assuming that the guy is occupied with finding solutions for that financial situation. And because of that, he's not available to... Emotionally available. Emotionally available to the impact it has on the spouse because she might not even be looking for solutions. That's another one. Yeah, she might not be looking for solutions, but the solution, that's what I'm saying, that the hard wiring of the average man is when money's in my pockets, everything else is calm. Yeah, especially in, I mean... I can see my wife because I'm not thinking of tomorrow's fuel, the school fees, the food, I'm not, I can see my wife, I can see my kids. None of those things are an issue in the back of my mind. Then, hey, what's up, what's going on with you? That's basically it. Because of the hard-wiring and how this relationship and everything's all right. But there's a lot of gender role there as well. It is. The provider, that the man has to be the provider. So that puts a lot of pressure on men. But that's mostly what happens in religious or traditional settings. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't know the point. I think, yes, I know the point. The point I wanted to make is with that role of being the provider and fixing things, men are also often only thinking of solutions, solutions, solutions. While in this case, the woman might just want to be listened to, or the partner just want to be listened to. We don't need solutions, and we have that too. Out of finance, even, right? Out of you and the finance. Aside from finance. We're putting the finance on the side. Just listening and solution based that we're talking about now. Yes, because that is also, but it is linked to this scenario because he feels in the pressure to provide the ones to fix things. While she just maybe wants to Be listened to. Listened to and reflect on, hey, how did we get here? What can we, how do we feel about it? What does it mean for us, like as two people being in a union? But we have that as well, that I come with something and grandma immediately jumps to, okay, but you can do this, you can do that. And I'm just like, great. But I just wanted to, I know that I will move to solutions in a bit. But I just wanted to share what this meant on my mind and how I feel about it. And yeah, I just wanted you to listen to it. And just like, you know, assure me or just give me some kind of comfort, not necessarily a solution, but some kind of comfort. Yeah, because sometimes like a hug or like saying, oh, but you're doing great. That on itself can already be a solution. Hearing like always, well, you've got this. I know you can do this. And I think we had to learn the hard way that's to check in like, what do you need? And I think we're still doing it. Yeah, we're slowly bringing it in. So when he grab his coping mechanism aside from distracting is also like being very practical, like functional, like, okay, let's do this. One, two, three, da, da, da, da, da. And then we do like this. That's what works. Because he doesn't like to, he doesn't like to, to see me suffer. And that's where it comes from. So he sees me in pain or in worry. And then he's like, I have to fix this. Yeah, let's just stick it away. Yeah. But again, my coping mechanism is sometimes feeling it and that will fuel me into taking it on and navigating it. So that's also how it connects. Yeah. So, what was the question again? How do you? Yeah, you can check. I lost the question. Oh, do you prioritize your spouse? Oh, I had a question. Do you prioritize your spouse's emotional well-being? Yeah. Yeah, we do. In the beginning, it was, of course, obviously blocked a lot by our own judgment and prejudices. Yeah. But now it's... I think I try, like, I try to check in with you. We all try to check in. Especially, I mean now... But you do way better with checking in. Yeah. You do way better with checking in. I think I've affirmed. Well, it's something I really know. Come on, it's not affirming, it's just the truth. It's something I really admire about you, like you really do check in. So... Thank you. You're making me shy on tape. Yes, I like to check in with you. How was your day? How has it been? And I also noticed when things, okay, I'm not saying I can see in the future, but I know crime very well. And with some things like a certain situation, I know it will get too demanding or I foresee some things just because I know him, how he works. So then I check in a little bit more because I feel like you'll get to a point where you need more support, maybe. Yeah. And so if I can give an example of what we're currently now in. So I'm working a nine to five in an office and Kwame is a freelancer. So most of the times he's a lot with Eli and he's doing amazing. Let me tell you that. So it's not about that I'm worried about him or that they're at home or anything. He's doing amazing. It's just that I think it's not healthy to only be a parent. And because Kwame is also creative, that was fuels him, that will move him. And I foresee, but keep an eye on this channel, that we need to get more help. So Kwame can also feel or nourish his creative side. And that point is gonna come. And I- I don't know when yet, but- So now we finally, I was finally able to talk to him a few days ago. To consider maybe a bit more help. So his mom is helping us out, which is great, but she doesn't live in Accra. So we're trying to also see how to go about that. So that's something I foresee. So in that way, I think ahead of, hmm, this is great being a new dad, but can he only be a dad? I'm not sure if that is the way to go. And then I try to prioritize it and check in with you. Even before you get to the point- Which is fair, but I have also a short hair that, I mean, I had a lot of things planned this year until Eli came. And then you still think that you're gonna be able to do things a certain way. And then when you're in it, you realize that, oh, okay. Maybe you need to re-strategize. So in re-strategizing, I have settled with myself. Like I've made peace with myself with the fact that in his first year, which is very formative or very important, I'm gonna be more present as in home with him because I'm a freelancer. Work is coming, but how work is coming in for me is like I can deliver in the night or like I can- No, I know, I know. You're more flexible. I know. Yeah, I'm very, very, very flexible and that's what the situation is now. But sometimes with creativity or creative projects, you need to kind of- Be doing more- Yes, immerse in it. And if you have a five month old, it's difficult to immerse in things. Even for me when I'm in the office, it's always there. And I'm not even physically present. So that's what I just foresee. But I have to give you credit because one of the, I think one of your coping mechanisms outside of distracting is also adapting. You adapt very well to new situations. Quickly. Yes. That also leads on the functional side of you. Like, okay, this is what it is. Let's go. I mean, the emotions won't solve anything at the moment. Can we just do this? Can we eat? Can we, you know? Yeah, you're very practical. My emotions are all over the place. Yeah. Sorry, I lost the second question. No, these are the two scenarios. No, no, no. There's a second question on this particular scenario. Yeah, so I think we, how do you support them during difficult times? I think we've discussed that. And then do you actively work on building emotional intimacy? I think we do. Yeah, we do. Often when we have something, one of us is dealing with something and we talk about it. That afterwards, and we gain new insights from it. You can just snuggle up and like... And now, because we don't have a lot of time or free time on our hands, we do things that we can both be in the same room and have Eli in the same room, which is technically we that eat in the same room with him, or we eat while watching an episode of something. Yeah, I think that's... Or we just chill in one place together. We try to, because you're taking care of like such a small person, like you can be all over the place, like one person in the kitchen, so we try to build these moments of either eating together, even though one person might be occupied with the baby, but... Or we watch something at the end of the day. I think it's a nice ritual as well, even though I fall asleep a lot. It's okay. We'll be watching TV and in lane inside. Yeah, it's just... And then she's also the one with the remote. She's holding the remote and... Gone. So I think we're building intimacy through that. And yeah, I would need to think about more moments where we build emotional intimacy, but I think showing up for one another is the most important one. We do show up. I think, yeah, we do show up. And I think we also keep each other emotionally in check, like I get me very rigid with tasks I have to do. So I feel at ease, like in the house, like I have to, for example... Walk the dog. Walk the dog at the end of the day. So he really tries to check in with me, like are you doing this now because you want to? Are you doing it because you feel obliged? Because I often feel obliged to do stuff. Yeah, and you should do it because you want to, or you feel like doing it, not because there's a dog in the house, has to be walked at five. So I'm checking that box. But I have to say it also... I don't get to be outside a lot because I work in an office. So often, like 80% of the time I do it because I also want to get some fresh air in our craft. Fresh air and just clear my head a little. There's more than the computer screen. There's more than all these meetings. There's more than all these writing that has to be done. So it has two functions. But I like that he reminds me that it's okay. It's okay if you leave the dishes or not... Check this box. Oh, that box. Yes, I like to do lists. So in a way, we have a bit of a similar coping mechanism with the functionality. Because I'm like, if this is in place, then I'll feel good. And while mine is a bit on the opposite side, not if this is in place, then I'll feel good. But it's more like you're feeling bad now but you need to eat. Yeah. So I don't care. You're pulling back to the things you really need. Not if this is in place, I'll feel good to... You do it to fix the emotion. I put the emotion down to fix the situation. Like the emotion can wait. Yeah. No, I think, yeah. I think like small tasks in the house where you don't really need to use your head, they help me process through things. So I'm also like, if I do these dishes, then I can think about this. Well, I'm just like, the dishes need to be done. Forget about this for now. But you're also good at saying, and I like that, that helps me, saying, why are you doing this now? Like just sit down, woman. Rest. I got it. Or like, we're not gonna do this today. Tomorrow morning, we'll do the dishes. And I'm like, no, not the dishes. Yeah. So I think those are the two scenarios. I really like this conversation. Yes. I'm so grateful for this counseling. I really like how we're... Maybe we should have done counseling. I'm kidding. How we're doing online counseling. I'm very curious to hear if people recognize stuff from our conversation or that they're like, wow, this is very different than how I moved through these issues. I'm just curious. Yeah, we're just curious because we didn't get an opportunity to have this. But in talking about this, we realized that we're already living it or doing it. Kind of, yeah. I think, I mean, I do see like the added value of counseling, like having a third person look at how you interact and pointing things out. A neutral person just overseeing that. Because things get heated. I mean, in every marriage, I'm sure. It also keeps things spicy. Spicy. Yeah, so that's it for this edition of the podcast. Thank you so much. I'm looking this camera, I'm looking this camera. And we're gonna, you know, maybe do other scenarios. Oh, we'll do the other three. I'm really excited. Like, we'd even want to continue, but let's cut it here otherwise, yeah. Oh, there's no otherwise. Just let's leave some for the other times. We've tickled your taste buds, but we'll come back. Yeah. Okay, thank you so much. Where are we? This one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. I still have to get you to sell the camera. Thank you so much for watching. Curious to hear what you think in the C section. We do have more videos. Probably we'll put them up here. And catch you later. Bye. Bye. In the C section. See you in the C section. Ah.