 Everybody welcome digital asset news or Dan for sure. My name is Rob and I am I'm surrounded by some very smart individuals. We're going to help us make sense of exactly what's going on with the celsius situation So we're out of got Aaron Bennett over the Aaron Bennett channel Aaron. Thanks for stopping by. We appreciate it Absolutely. Thanks for being here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for being here Then Tiffany Fong of course who is uh, who's rising fast to stardom as everybody knows what's happening with her Tiffany, thanks for stopping by appreciate it Great. And then a new one a new guest camcruz who is uh, Thankfully, I've been keeping abreast the situation actually keeping me informed of what's happening with all these twitter spaces and all the different meetings and things like that So cam again, thanks for stopping by. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right. So ladies and gentlemen, here are the questions Let's get everybody up to speed. First things first is that amazingly Me Tiffany and Aaron we talked just a little bit ago a month ago about This celsius reorganization in chapter 11 And just want to get your thoughts about what has changed so far if anything at all And then also crypto as property of this estate. What does it even mean selling off of assets? And of course gk8. So i'm just gonna start real quick. Um, Aaron just real quick. What is Generally changed so far since we talked about a month ago, and I'll go to tiffing and we'll go to cam for property this state Yeah, not not a whole lot. I think Some of the largest things that we're seeing The assets being sold off. We saw gk8 being sold a month ago I believe we were under the impression that that would either be Moved into simon dixon's plan or it would be kept as an asset for the standalone reorganization that celsius Says they want to do right? I think that was the biggest bombshell that Came out over the last month since we've talked We are still trying to decide whether or not Coins are the property of creditors or the celsius network estate Um, and it seems still relatively undecided and judge martin glenn still hasn't figured out a ruling on that But it did sound like he was leaning towards Declaring coins property of the estate. That's what it sounded like on the last hearing Perfect. Okay. So that will lead me to Cam cruise Cam, what does this even mean because when I hear property of the estate and it's only to celsius to me I just think to myself well great now all my crypto is gone. Is that essentially what's happening here? That's how it emotionally feels Because like you've deposited your assets on the platform and you've received nothing in return. So it feels like hey Like what the hell like they've just stolen from me and there was a huge outcry from the creditors Like there were 40 objections, which bizarrely the kirkland attorney nash was arguing that only 40 of all the Creditors have found objections when it's like a ridiculously large number of objections But I think I mean one of the interesting things is the ucc Has been kind of working with kirkland to get this outcome because it seems like they feel it is better for all parties um So even though it feels bad and Um, like this really I was upset partly because the ucc didn't communicate their strategy to us So you'd feel like you're kind of getting the rug pulled a little bit from under you again um, the advantage is that They're uh, gonna limit the possibility for the equity investors to come and dilute our claims or create a situation where All these legal challenges could come in because as an example Like we're very low on bitcoin in terms of what's in the estate But there's I think a high percentage of say link So you can get the people that deposited link in june and they'd be like I can see on the blockchain Like my link is right here like give it back to me. Yeah, exactly. And then you have this inequitable situation I got you. So right now as far as like property of the state just uh, just to clear things up We're taking a look at two different types of accounts. We're taking a look at um, earn and custody, correct? So is there a is there a way to distinguish between those two who owns Each of those properties. Is it right now? Celsius owns all the crypto that's in the earn and the custody or did I get it wrong? I mean, it's just oh, yeah, sorry. It's just uh, just the earn account. Um, so tomorrow's hearing Actually, sorry, probably the timing will be a little off, but wednesday's hearing Determines custody and withhold Excellent. Okay. So that's what we're at right now. So right now it looks like it's going to uh, sell See us, but I think there is something positive which ends in a get into a bit, but actually The next question would be the selling off of assets and for this one. I didn't um They talked about selling off of assets, especially stablecoins. Is uh, tiffani. Do you have anything on this one? I believe they wanted to sell 18 million dollars of stablecoins. Um and I That was to fund. I mean Cameron might or erin might remember more exactly I think that it wasn't directly going to go into bitcoin mining, but I think that their bitcoin mining Will need funding uh in I believe february or march I could be talking this so Yeah, and those and just just to be sure. Sorry. Those are our stablecoins, right? These aren't some mythical stablecoins someplace else. This is your stablecoins my stablecoins. Everybody watching the video, correct? Yes, unless I'm misunderstood, but I believe it's our stablecoins Okay, and then and then the last thing so it looks like they're going to they're going to start selling some assets They already done so Next one is gk8 and we'll round this out erin for this one gk. First of all, what is gk? What is that so important? I thought it was already sold off. I don't understand this part Yeah, it was sold off. Well, when was it like a week or two ago? I don't even know if it's profitable. Okay, maybe you can chime in But they do like custody solutions Sort of I believe it's like a competitive to fire blocks so Yeah, all in one custody platform built for banks. So that's what they do and You know, it was sold for a pretty good amount, especially at the bottom of the bear market No, great timing. So now we've we've lost another big chunk of asset which makes me a bigger hole It sounds like if I'm wrong here. Okay All right. Well, that'll take us up to speed a little bit now. Let's get to this Next piece. This was There was a Celsius UCC call and this is where I heard cam eloquently talk To these to the gentleman and of course everybody in this in this call But but cam just real quick and I linked this in the description below so everybody can listen to themselves It's a it's a fine hour and a half Something to do to listen to but can just give us a quick overview about what they talked about in this UCC update And then we'll get to the crypto property of Celsius in a bit Yeah, I mean the main reason for the call was to Calibrate the UCC's position with the broader creditor community And I'd been pretty vocally criticizing them of them not keeping us appraised of their strategy to essentially argue against our ownership of coins So, uh, I had been reached out to to kick off the session Just with some initial questions. So we cleared the air about the strategy they had and then identified some areas where There could be cause for concern about the process like it does increase the likelihood of a reorg coming because They have our assets now. So they could You know sell they could sell the stable coins for instance to keep things going But it's yeah Yeah, no, I get it. So so talk to us real quick about the the reorganization plan It looks like if they have control of all our assets, they're going to use those assets to reorganize their The company and then relaunch into something else that's maybe a brand new company. Is that what we're going for? Is that even a I mean, we'll get to the possibility, but it's only that's what they're pushing for the UCC Well, that's the concern because really the assets shouldn't be used to fund operations There was disclosure by Robert Campania. He was one of the advisors. He was deposed a couple weeks ago and Uh of the 1.8 billion stable coins that were entrusted to them. They spent um 500 million on maintaining their operations over the last five years 500 million on maintaining their operations over the last five years 500 million on maintaining their operations over the last five years So like these should be going to earn return not to keep the lights on So they haven't been really managing our assets well and we don't want them to use this as a cookie jar So like the judge in the court hearing said you can't like treat them like you're going to vegas but um We we kind of need to see actually sustainable revenue streams like they they talk about the mining being profitable and then you look at the balance sheet and we're going to see 10 million dollars their revenue 25 million dollars in expenses and Like that doesn't sound profitable at all. So they're they're not really backing their story with facts It's just yeah, it's just hearsay. And that's another thing like I'm not a miner, but I see some people who are heavily into mining and are experts and even they're having a hard time We've uh seen a couple of different mining operations get uh go down There's a reason why the difficulty level just dropped It's because the mining operators are shutting off their rigs because they're not profitable right now So I find it I find it quite hard to believe That in this day and age in this time frame that celsius is going to be come out swinging And be fantastic in mining and fill that hole and then just real quick I don't know who wants to take this one, but as far as the hole goes What are we looking at as far as a hole? For how much we are missing uh from what would make all depositors actual complete I think the last that I saw was that we're missing about 53 percent unless there's an update to that How much is that in billions? Was it like 2.5 billion or something like that? That sounds approximately correct The thing is the numbers are so fuzzy and because they're like not really like they disclose the coin reports without quantities Just like dollar values and those market values change constantly. So It's it's a little bit of a guessing game in terms of how big and they also always forgot that they wasted 750 million dollars of equity Investment money. So that's just totally punted Yeah, just just a couple hundred million between friends. Who's gonna miss it? So so to finish this one up, uh, this was the big question I had which I was listening to because erin sent this over to me here and thanks for the celsius ucc And they talked about how the crypto property is Celsius. This is from the committee and they said that's actually a good thing So erin real quick why first? Why is this a good thing that? Celsius actually has control of our of our crypto legally. Why is this a good thing? I guess Well, they're reasoning and I know cam touched on this a little earlier and he can fill in the holes as well Is that it would allow or not allow the equity holders to Delute our claims and how much we would get back. So the ucc is saying if the terms of service are withheld or held up I should say That would allow us to have claims on all the entities For one it would allow a more equitable distribution of coins So Meaning right if Celsius has a larger hole in one coin versus another people wouldn't get less than the other So they are claiming that what they're doing is in the best interest of all the creditors Again getting blindsided by not knowing these reasonings when they were Supporting Kirkland right literally supporting the debtors supporting Celsius and we're like why is the ucc? Which is supposed to be you know supporting us supporting the debtor. It was this You know a point of contention which cam has expressed a lot even in motions filing motions to the court. So I at this point, you know, I believe that the ucc is working in our best interest. I think they are working to Make things move along as quickly as possible Avoid as many lawsuits as possible and I believe ultimately getting our coins back as quickly as possible Some people still think they are like in collusion With alex or you know all these conspiracy things. I'm sure Naturally, uh, and I get it at this point myself and if anybody else wants to chime in I I think they do have our best interest in mind. Excuse me It's just kind of it wasn't totally transparent from the beginning Gotcha. So this will lead me to my to my next one, which I'm just gonna have everybody just chime in as they see fit so The upcoming options to make Celsius customers whole because in the beginning it was a lot of different options And now as we go with this chapter 11 bankruptcy and we see the funds just started to burn and melt away It seems like we have less and less So what are the options out there to make us because we've all lost in this one? Have we not What is that? What's the what's the options out there to make us whole? Tiffany, I just want to start with you. Is there just one or anything you can think of that? This was more in regards to the sale of gk8 and I remember hearing simon suggest that mike novogratz could potentially pay for gk8 in bitcoin and Specify that these bitcoins should go back to creditors. I think he He proposed that whether or not mike novogratz actually takes that advice. We'll see But that could potentially help fill the I think about over 60 That was in bitcoin hole, but a certain room won't make us actually whole that could contribute towards it So I'll take that I'll take the otc play cam. What do you got out there? upcoming options to make you and me and everybody else whole here Yeah, I mean the biggest problem is that the mining operation is just eating a hole away and the remaining liquidity So you have this narrative that's being pushed about how mining is profitable coming from management And yet as tiffany said it's going to be running out of cash early into the new year Now they they find cash from under the couch cushions. They they took out 65 million dollars from bitfinex just recently which Just came from nowhere So like they're able to find cash when they really need it but Like they need to find a way to be able to keep this operation going without Creditor deposits paying for it. So they'll need to find some sort of financing if they want to keep this going the trouble is like there's such a terrible macro condition as you touched on earlier dan with the The climate here because you have this super high hash rate You have a low price of bitcoin high energy costs all these miners are losing money And there's going to be a minor die-off soon. So who's going to survive is it going to be the mining operation that overscaled with like Four months of runway like it's hard to bet on us right now So You either like we find financing or we just have to kick in the towel, which we probably should have done in the summer But here we are Good point and then erin i'll i'll finish up with you Upcoming options because i know we talked we've talked a couple of things back and forth about Simon's options, but where are we at now with gk8 and salt lending and so on and so forth Well salt lending i don't think is even in the picture anymore. Unfortunately, so I don't want to speak for simon or put words in his mouth, but from what i've heard He did mention today on the call with the ucc that i think he still has a way of giving people Equity in assets or that's still on the table. That's still something he can do with his regulated company bank to the future right So in terms of being made whole Ideally we would have equity in a company that during the next bull run Fingers crossed could go public I don't really see another way to do it. I mean mining mining bitcoin Or mining enough bitcoin to get us out of our bitcoin deficit out of the bitcoin hole I think cam, you know, it could take years just at the current price of bitcoin and the current amount of bitcoin They're mining every day. So that's not that's kind of out of the out of the question I think this whole going public thing is probably our best bet if If celsius does not just sell all the assets to The highest bidder at the bottom of the bear market. So perfect So that would actually that that's actually both questions. So time frame best case scenario erin just said hey looking at the next bull run Maybe 2025 maybe 2026. Who knows? And of course that would be the time frame the best case scenario as we go public tiffany cam What do you guys got for a time frame in the best case scenario? I'm kind of with cam on this one about you know, let's just Say liquidate me Give me the funds and then I'll invest as I see fit, but I'm in the same boat I kind of I'm not personally holding out hope to be made 100 whole anymore I think we're gonna have to take a hair cut at some point and honestly at this point looking at like ftx international I'm kind of like we are in a bit of a luckier position where we actually at least have at least the half ish of our coins Um, hopefully the sale of assets can contribute to making us a little bit closer to whole but I just I don't really expect to be made 100 whole anytime in the near future or With any practicality that I like your silver lining. They're like, hey, it's bad. It sucks But at least we're not as bad as those guys ftx cam Time frame best case buddy just to cap off the mining into like we Put so much or Chelsea's put so much resources into this facility that they took out the 900 million dollar tetherback loans They got 900 million usd t they put 600 million into this mining facility buying up all these rigs that they haven't even plugged in fully yet And they were backing it by my estimation with 40 000 btc Which wound up getting liquidated in june at about 22 k So we ate Such a terrible loss on that like would you rather have this terrible mining facility that's losing money every month? Or do you rather have 40 000 bitcoin like It's pretty easy if we could reverse that it would be amazing but um, I think Yes But I mean that's one of the challenges is trying to figure out like how does this company get this disaster rebalance sheet and like The debtor is not really explaining it. You just have to kind of piece it together um And the examiner report's going to be dropping in uh, what is it? Was january 17th? That sounds right Well, we have to buckle our seatbelts for that. Um, but in terms of like the earliest outcome like I don't see this being resolved earlier than q3 of next year. And that's like a very aggressive schedule That's that's pretty rosy. I gotta agree with all you on this one I think that we are on for a long bumpy ride Just like the whole crypto ecosystem about about what we're about to go through so Aaron tiffani cam. I appreciate you guys coming on you can find Aaron tiffani cam's social media presence either on twitter or on youtube. I linked all of their information in the description below Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for uh informing us and keeping us up to date. I appreciate it Thanks for having us. Thanks All right, buddy. Yeah, thanks for stopping by. Let's get out of here everybody like and subscribe We'll see you on the next one. Adios