 Hi, and welcome to DEI Matters. Conversations with Margaret Creedle-Thomas. We took the summer off and we're back for the fall. And I decided to start with my favorite guest, Jill Harvey, who I work closely with. So, hi, Jill. Hi, I'm good, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. So, how have things been going? They are going. They're going. They are going. It's been an eventful summer, I'd say, just for the diversity and inclusion division within the town. We've got some new employees, some big projects happening, so it wasn't really a slow down summer. It was more like a year and up. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So, you're almost three years into your position. And I wanted to know, what do you think some of your wins are accomplishments in almost three years? Yeah, well, right now I'd say the fact that I have a division and employees, not just myself, is huge that this role started as a coordinator position. And now there's an outreach and engagement coordinator. Now have a full-time ADA coordinator. So, that really says a lot about, you know, the town valuing the work and putting the resources and support behind it. So, for me, that's a big win, like, yes. I think another win is the work that we have going on right now, the equity audit, the community equity audit. And then we're gonna be starting some racial equity workshops for employees. And I have made it very clear that this is for every employee. So, taking that on and getting that logistically organized will be a win. But all of the pre-work going into it has been really just wonderful to work with the consultants we're working with. But yeah, I think those two things are kind of a big win, because other places- Those are major wins. Yeah, they don't quite get that. When I'm hearing you say is that you have expanded the department of DEI for the town. And you mentioned that you have an outreach coordinator. And then you said at ADA. So, can you tell everybody what ADA stands for? So, the American Disabilities Act. Everyone should have a coordinator or have someone, it was my job, part of my job. But now we have a full-time person to do that. So, what they'll do is make sure they'll handle complaints, compliance, work with other town departments. We do have a self-evaluation ADA transition and implementation plan. That is a massive document that has all of the improvements that need to be made. But we needed someone to really be able to work closely with that document and work closely with departments to make sure that every time we do a project or where there's opportunities for funding, they were incorporating all of these changes and updates and improvements. So that our buildings, our parks are all accessible. That's great. So, and then the other one that I hear that you spoke about is that you have an equity audit going on in the community. And we just got finished with our equity audit and got the official report, which I think is going out to everyone today. So, do you wanna share a little bit more about that? Yeah, the audit. So, we put the request out for proposals back in, I wanna say February. We had like seven proposals. We heard it down. We picked one and we've been working with the consultants, Opportunity Consulting, they're out of DC since, I wanna say, end of May, beginning of June. So, the summer for them was really a big data collection stage. Part of that is also recognizing there's a lot of data we don't have. And that in itself is a clear recommendation that we need. We need different avenues of collecting proper data so that we can track the progress we're making or the progress we're not making. But with the audits, we're moving into a focus group stage so really having our consultants and facilitators work with community members, doing some of that outreach that has been difficult for us. Now it's a little bit better with our new outreach coordinator. But just having open and honest conversations with community members, they're doing one-on-one interviews as well, which is really helpful because we're getting to hear from folks that we typically don't, folks that are not showing up to public meetings or folks that are not a part of town meeting that their voices are being heard. So this is a different avenue to really be able to see more of what we've been missing because my favorite phrase is, we don't know what we don't know. So this audit is really, for me, is going to help us really set the proper goals and it aligns well with the workshops that employees will be going through because they'll both kind of culminate at the same time whereas we're seeing this data, we're looking at everything, but then we're doing this learning process together as a full staff and when I say full staff, I mean like all like 400 plus people and coming up with a joint collaborative plan of how we want to approach this work and what's going to work for us so that it's shared. It's not just Jill's plan. It's not just going to come from the town manager that it's everyone contributing to this and understanding why we're doing it and feeling ownership over it so that they do want to start to make the changes that are necessary to better serve all of our community members. It's really important when you can get everybody to be collectively involved in making a decision or what's the role that we should be taking. And I think congratulations that you've gotten the audit done. That is really huge, right? Lofi and I know that to get an audit done. What do you think are some of the challenges that you are still facing? Yeah. Balance. Life balance, work balance. Because I feel like I said it before, a lot of the work you're doing when you're in this type of role or in that field, it's also personal. So whatever else is going on in the world, it's gonna hit you different when you have to deal with it, but then you have to deal with it with your job. So I think that's forever an ongoing challenge but being able to have the right network and support and folks you can talk to is a good remedy. No is a word. Oh yes, no is a word. No is a word. I found that out. And that you can't use it. Yes. I am starting to, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't feel sorry about it. Yeah, no. No. No. That work-life balance is really, really key. One of the things that I'm noticing, and I'm wondering if you noticed it too, as we are coming out of how the pandemic has had us in the last two and a half years where we had to wear a mask and it was a lot of surveillance testing and a lot of that has now stopped. And I feel that, I think for me, I feel that there's just like, just different energy, which is great. I think people are just like really happy that they can go to work without like, with my mask and things like that. However, I also feel like there's this, there's more, it feels like there's just more things that are happening all at once. And I'm wondering if you're feeling the same way. And I was just wondering, like, what do you think that is? Yeah, I don't know what it is. To answer that question, but I definitely agree. I feel like there's this kind of resetting and readjusting phase, but it hasn't happened the way it normally would. Like, when you go through a transition or a change in your life, you kind of have that personal and you prepare and you do it. I think with what we're all going through in different ways is some folks have gone immediately just like right back to what used to be, but we all know what used to be is not, it's not going to be the same. And we can't act like it's going to be, we can't think like it's going to be, we need to adjust and adapt to living with that possibility of always having to maybe put on a mask or stay home. Like, not see people, but we've, I think the, I feel like the pandemic taught us something that you should kind of value what you have now in the present and just take advantage of what you've got. Right, it's interesting because I feel that we didn't have space and time to really talk about what did we learn from the pandemic? And like you said, I think people are just like, oh, you know, 2019, right? Let's just resume from where 2019 since we had this two and a half year pause. And I think we, there was a lot of good things that happened within the pandemic that we learned that there's different ways that work like Lisa, work like balance, there's different ways that we can hold meetings now. I'm running late now and I can say, hey, can we hop on a zoom, right? And things like that. And so I think that I wish that we had that moment to just kind of pause on that. Yeah. I want to, and I think this is going to start to get us into this conversation where I want to go. And I wanted to ask you a question, but I want to kind of wait. There are a lot of states that are banning this work. They're banning diversity and equity inclusion, anti-racism work. There are a lot of schools that are just saying that they do not want this curriculum being introduced to students. What are your thoughts? What do you think Massachusetts is in regards to this work? I'm glad we live in Massachusetts. I hopefully don't see, you know, the state in personally any type of bans, but it's also kind of, I know being in this work and working in municipal government with the state, we're not as far ahead as we think we are as well. So just because we think we're liberal and progressive, we still have very deep rooted racist policies and practices and that isn't just gonna go away. That takes the work. And so I think that's what we're doing, but I definitely don't see curriculum being challenged. No, I take that back. It'll be challenged, but I don't see what's happening in other states with full bans or anything happening here. But I think it was last year, maybe a year before. Time warp, don't know when, but I do recall seeing and hearing from some of my colleagues in other towns and cities in the state that folks were showing up to school committee meetings and going off. And it's like, it's here. People have those feelings. It's just a little bit more quiet, but it doesn't mean it's not here. So I think getting ahead of it and get back to that support and if we value these things that we say, if we value diversity, if we want people to feel like they are a part of our state and they're getting the education they deserve, then you need to stick to that and not allow folks who are trying to take those things away to be able to gain more momentum. One of the things that I've been thinking about and as you just discussed that question and there's a lot of states that just have banded. Like you cannot, you cannot teach it. It's not something that they want. And one of the things that I think I'm wondering and I don't know if I'm concerned, I think I am. Do you feel as though when the pandemic was at its high end state, we saw a lot of racial tension. We saw a lot of deaths of African American people, BIPOC people. We saw a lot of Asians, just the way they were being treated. And a lot of people were just like, there's things that we need to do. There was advocacy that was really happening. There was a lot of professional development for people. And I'm somewhat concerned. I'm wondering if we are going back. I'm wondering because now it's not really out there. Now you're not really seeing the pictures or it's not really on social media. When it's not in front of you, you have a tendency to forget. Yeah. So I'm wondering how do you feel? Do you feel like we are reverting back or do you feel like we're really pushing forward or do you feel like it's a combination of both? I don't feel like we're going back. Okay. I feel like with the, I'm gonna say the perk, maybe a different word, but with the pandemic because everyone was home and you couldn't do anything else, all of these issues that have been around for centuries, you could not ignore. And if you chose to ignore it, then okay, you just, you're never gonna get it and accept it. And I think with the like reopening and all of that, folks who've had the privilege to not have to deal with those issues are right back to where they were, but you're not gonna forget. And I hate to say it, but until you see the next shooting or the next serious hate crime on the news, you're gonna forget that you're back in your own happy, just live in life, but other folks who've really made the commitment to doing the work and wanting to be a part of the change, they're still there. They're doing it quietly. I mean, we're doing it quietly. Towns and cities that are still hiring, creating these positions, they're pushing it. They're still wanting to make sure that work is going to get done, but you're not just, you're not seeing it. And I think that does a lot because it's a trend, but I also don't support DEI being the buzzword. It's like, don't just say it if you don't mean it, but if you're still here three years later doing the work with me, okay, respect, you get it. And you're part of the greater push for change, but really it's, I don't think people forget, unfortunately, but it's just that privilege piece where you're allowed to go back. The privilege and the power, yeah, yeah. So where do you think, as I asked you that question, where do you think we are then? Where are we landing with this work? Where are we landing with diversity, equity, inclusion and anti-racism? I'm gonna add social justice, right? Cause people, all the words. It's like, it's like, I feel like the alphabets, right? Like our titles are now the alphabets. It's like, oh, they're adding another alphabets. Right, they're adding another alphabets, right? And so where do you think we are now that, like I said, we're in, we're not in a pandemic. It's not to say that COVID has went away. It's just, you know, we're living with it, right? And so where are we? I mean, we're like, we're living with it. So who knows what'll happen even next month. Yeah. But I think with this type of work, I don't wanna say I don't care what you call it, but if you're upholding certain values as you're doing the work, that's what matters. Like DEI, BA, J, RJ, whatever, you can change the name 16 times, but if you have the correct values of what you're really trying to do and goals that you're trying to reach, or not even reach because equity work, to me, it's not gonna be reached in any of our lifetimes. Like the things we really would love to see this is a very long, slow, ongoing process. But if you have, you know, I think as a town, Arlington has committed to doing the work, even when it gets hard, you know, we have departments that deal with some tough issues and they keep doing it and they're trying to be transparent and being able to just know that it's gonna have a positive impact on someone, I think is what, at least that's what I kind of go by is that I do programs, I do this, I do that, but when I know that it's impacted at least one person positively, that it matters. Yeah, I look at that as if you planted a seed and a person that seed will grow and then whoever can glean from that person, that might be multiple people that can glean from that person from that one seed that you had planted, yeah, I agree with you. What do you think are some of the joys of doing this work? Some of the joys, I'd say like the collaboration. If you're doing it right, you're working with folks, you've never worked before, you're always trying to innovate and like keep things moving, but that means bringing in diverse voices, diverse minds, so I love, for me that's what I feel, because I just, I like people and I like to hear what they have to say, whether I agree or not, but I welcome it. Other joys, yeah, just knowing, I think it was yesterday, or I was talking to someone within the office, so Health and Human Services, and we were, oh, it was this morning, what am I saying? It was this morning. I know how that feels, you're like, what day is it? It was this morning, and we were just talking about the fact that everyone who is in that office, ultimately we all enjoy providing that public service, and if we didn't, I would not work for a town government, but to me, that's the joy, knowing that you're helping someone, whether it's one person or 600, you're still providing something to someone that matters, or I think that for me, that's what it is. It's like, even on the worst day, knowing that it might have drained me, but if I helped you, okay, we're good. So what's the opposite of that? It's like, what is some of the thorns of doing this work? I've accepted it, but it still is a thorn, knowing that you also can't change minds, it's up to the individual. So you can have conversations, you can provide workshops, training, whatever, but at the end of the day, if you want, if someone wants to do this work, they will, if they want to help, they will, if they don't wanna change their mind, they won't. So I think that's a part, because you just don't have control over other people. And there's a lot of folks, like I said, where it's a great state, but there are a lot of folks that are very content with how things run and don't want change, because yeah, it works for them. We've talked about this before, like fear of loss, if others gain a little more to be more equal, you're not losing, you're just sharing. So yeah, I think that's a thorn, it's like you can't get everyone on your side all the time. Yeah, and the traditions, right? They don't wanna lose their traditions. So you and I work very closely together, I guess the audience has seen that as we laugh. Do we wanna share some things that we're working on together, some partnerships that we're starting to establish? Yeah, we have, I was gonna say, do you wanna kick it off? Yeah, I think that's one that I'm really excited about that we're partnering with a chief flattery to really kinda do those connections with the schools and better relationships with students in the police department. And so we have something in works for that, right? I think that's great. I know you're in the throes of your equity audit, I just got finished so I feel like we're in stage two of like, oh, now it's going out to the community so to have those community forums. So I think that's where some of our work is intersecting as, I'm like, here's the audit. So we're doing some of that work together. Yeah, cause ultimately, yes, you're on the school side, but we're serving the same community. Those parents are community members, those kids are community members, employees, so it's all the same at the end of the day. Doing some work with, we're gonna be partnering a little bit more. I know you work with the commissions and I should say I'm coming, kind of coming more into that and working more with some of the commissions on some initiatives. So yeah, we have a full play. We're working on a calendar for the years. Oh, yes, the calendar, our famous calendar. And we talked about just sharing, like this month is Heritage Month. Yep, Hispanic Heritage Month. Hispanic Heritage Month, yes. And it's up for a month, right? And how it was a week when London B. Johnson was in and Reagan then made it a month and we celebrate our brothers and sisters and who have contributed to us. So yeah, we have a lot of things going on. Did I miss anything? Probably, that's okay. I can't think. So we're starting off the year. I always start, last year I started with you as my first guest, so I had to continue that. I had to continue the tradition and start with you again with my first guest. So thank you for coming on and joining me in these conversations. Thank you again for joining us. We will be back in another couple of weeks with another segment. I'm Margaret Cuddle Thomas, thank you.