 It's meeting to order. And we're going to jump right to Andreas from the watershed consulting associates for his presentation, because I think a few of you here might have come specifically to hear about that. So Joan, take it away. Yeah, I just had a few opening remarks, so everyone knows what to expect. So most of you are probably aware that there are a variety of issues, problems in the village caused by stormwater runoff. And stormwater runoff, as you also probably know, is anything rain or melting snow that flows overland and eventually ends up in streams and rivers. And in the village, some of that runoff, we're finding that a lot less than we thought is captured by our existing storm drain system. A lot of what we find is not really functioning. And Andreas will tell us a little bit more about what they found. But what eventually all of it does in one way or another, whether it flows overland or goes through our infrastructure, ends up in the river. And it causes, it carries sediment, it carries debris, it carries contaminants. So it's a problem for those of us traveling or walking in the village. But it's also a problem in terms of water quality in the white river and in the streams as well. And of course, in the wintertime, what happens is that mixture has to just walking, breaks up the sidewalks, what sidewalks we have get broken up and eroded by stormwater runoff. These big puddles in the warmer weather, there are roads with lawns and other low-lying areas of flood basements, garages, et cetera. You probably all know more about this than I do, about what happens. So a few years ago, if you remember, we did a pedestrian study to give us some ideas about how to improve our walking experience in the village. But that did not address stormwater. And what we realized is that we didn't resolve the stormwater issues. And if anything we wanted to do through the sidewalks, it was going to be sort of a waste of time. There really needs to be done in some integrated way. So all of that is coming together with a stormwater master plan that Andres' firm of watershed consulting, LLC, has been doing for us over the past several months. And this is what he's going to be presenting to us tonight, describing what he's found and what their recommendations are for what we can do. And before he got started, I just wanted to say thank you to Mary Russ from Bike with a Partnership. Mary was one who's out of branch from the state in order to hire Andres' firm. So no cost is found at all for this great work. And in addition, Ann Smith is here from, used to be the executive director of Friends of the Mnuski and is now an independent consultant. She's got a great deal of experience doing stormwater implementation projects around the state, especially in the Mnuski basin. And she threw an arrangement with whatever partnership would be able to help us implement some projects going forward. Andres, do you want to take it away? Sure. Yeah, so thank you very much for having me here tonight. So I'm going to give an overview. I have about 17 slides, just focusing on the kind of describing, talking through the process of what we did and then the findings and the next steps of the process. And so kind of launch right into that. I'm going to be describing kind of what the means of the project is. And then basically the way we do these projects is we're narrowing them down. So we're starting with looking at what is the site area, defining our site area, and then focusing down in terms of what are really the biggest problems in terms of runoff and how do we go about solving those problems. And so kind of to take you through that, the master plan, as in our intro, we just heard, the master plan was developed by Watershed Consulting. It was, we were contracted by the White River Partnership to do the work. And basically it's been about a year, I think we started in last January. And this was through a grant from the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation for doing this work. And why is this important really? I mean, stormwater, I probably don't need to tell a lot of you. Obviously there's history of flooding. Stormwater is definitely a big part of that flooding. The reason that the flooding is so severe in a lot of cases is because there is a lot of uncontrolled stormwater runoff that's being kind of delivered from the hard surfaces in town, brought right down to the river quickly. Also, that water creating a lot of erosion in the stream, destabilizing the stream. And so one of the reasons why we're doing this is flooding, to try to mitigate some of those flooding impacts. The second reason is for pollutant reasons, for water quality reasons. So stormwater runoff when exposed to develop lands like a lot of the lands we have in the village here picks up the pollutants, those pollutants get washed down into the stream and degrade the water quality. It also heats up the water. And so it not only affects the quality of the water for things like swimming and fishing, it also affects what can live in the stream. And so the water quality piece is the other big piece of why we're doing this. And so this is really gonna be part of the overall White River tactical basin plan, which I'm sure Mary can talk more about. But this is really one piece in this larger plan, this larger effort to kind of protect and restore the White River watershed. And well, we're in the White River watershed and really the White River watershed, just some of the stressors in the watershed, it's been, there's been subject to straightening the river. There's been encroachment, the encroachment meaning the development that's kind of right on the river. Historically, a lot of the Vermont towns were settled this way. There's a lot of encroachment. And there's erosion, land erosion kind of into the river and then also channel erosion as well, where there's banks being scoured out. A lot of that is due to this encroachment. It's also just due to the fact that there's stormwater runoff. So I was saying a lot of this runoff getting into the river quickly. It has a lot of power and it tends to above the banks and cause that destabilization. And that creates a lot of problems for water quality and also for the infrastructure that the town has to maintain over time. Invasive species, there's definitely invasive species issues as well in the watershed. We see that down at the town garage site. And then just some of the other stressors in the stream currently, there's pathogens and thermal stress. And so pathogens are things, bacteria, that are again from stormwater runoff. When you're getting runoff from developed lands, a lot of times that water can be contaminated with things like pet waste and grease from restaurants, stuff like that. So that dumps pathogens in the water and that can make people or animals sick. And then thermal stress when that water is heating up on the impervious surfaces, imagine it's hot summer day thunderstorm that water is just rushing right out. It's gonna be really warm and that is very detrimental to cold water fisheries where you have a lot of that warm water kind of getting discharged right into the river right away, very quickly. So those are just some of the documented stressors and really our focus of this plan was really looking at the village in particular. The town obviously has a lot of both condensed urban lands right here in the village but then also a big road network of more of the rural type development. And the rural type development outside of the village is definitely important for stormwater. There's a lot of challenges there. As you probably know, just driving around the roads, there's a lot of road erosion going on. There's a lot of challenges with respect to maintaining that infrastructure. And that is a challenge which is being addressed by a new permitting requirement in the municipal roads general permit that the town is going to have to meet. And so really, and that's a permit that's being administered by the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation that's gonna be requiring the town to really take a look at the road network, the ditches, the culverts. And so that, because of that other process going on, we really wanted to focus this plan on the village itself. And I haven't mentioned this before, but this is a non-regulatory plan. And so this is a voluntary plan that we're basically just trying to get ahead of it a little bit and get things queued up for future funding through the state. And this is really the first step in that process. And so just to kind of describe what that process looked like. So we initially met here, I believe, on the 12th of January in 2018. And really the initial step was to understand what's been done so far. So what's out there in terms of existing information. And one of the big things that was here was the infrastructure. So the catch basins and the pipes and the outfall points where that stormwater goes has already been mapped, was already mapped by the state. And I think that was in 2016. And so that was, the state's actually done that for a lot of municipalities statewide at this point. And that's really, really valuable data because that saves us the time from having to figure out where the water flows, say from the village green, there's catch basins all around that. Where does that go? Having that data already, we can understand that a lot of that drains down the hill and discharges by the bridge, where a lot of the village stormwater ends up. And that's one of the sites that we're looking at for an improvement project down there, which I'm gonna get to. But that was probably the biggest piece of information that we had. So we kind of went through that existing data and we did what's called this desktop assessment, an initial project identification. So it's really just looking at kind of the overall view of the village, looking at where the infrastructure goes, where those outfall points are and coming up with bullet points in terms of like, hey, these are gonna be really good projects. Potentially, we wanna evaluate these further. So we came up with 19 of those sites. And if you wanna know, I'm not gonna go through all these sites, but they're gonna be in the final plan. And if anybody wants to see them, there's also gonna be a map. On the right is just a, just there's a zoomed in map in the plan where you can see exactly what all those 19 sites are, but they're all around the village. And we basically put those 19 sites through a ranking process. So what we wanted to figure out was, of these 19 sites, what sites, not all sites are equal, which one of these sites are most valuable and where should the town and where should we be kind of focusing our energy for the future in terms of taking the next steps with designing these sites and moving them along towards implementation. So going through that ranking process, we came up with, we cut basically four of those sites away. So these are just for various reasons, they're not good projects. They don't really have a, by implementing spending money on these projects, we're not gonna be improving water quality or some other benefits, not gonna be static benefits of the town or somehow help the town in some other way. So we cut out four of those projects and we got to 15. And then during the summer, we met with the project stakeholders again here and we basically got down to five priority sites. And so at that point we determined, these are really the top five sites in the village that are most, we really wanna focus our efforts on it because essentially what the end of our contract was to take three of those five and actually produce the designs for those. And so that's what I brought along here, which I'm happy to answer questions after I talk or after the meeting, you can look at these. But there's basically three designs. So three out of those five sites, we ended up designing. And when we selected the top three sites, really at that point, we needed to conduct some outreach because we needed to understand what the issues were. And there were definitely some issues, some hurdles that we had to overcome for those projects. And when I get to the top three projects, I'll tell you what some of those challenges were. And then we modeled the projects because we really wanted to get a better understanding of really what's the benefit because when the process is at this point, we're gonna take this information and then submit for future funding or the town will and or married will and putting that into the state. They really wanna know how much phosphorus or how much nitrogen or how much, how many pounds of sediment or how much volume of stormwater does this, is this gonna manage? Because that's how they basically apply their funding is they wanna know that this is gonna be a really valuable project. So we needed to break out that information and the way that you get that information is through modeling. So we spent a lot of time modeling the projects, both for water quality and also the quantity, so the runoff modeling. And then we prepared some preliminary cost estimates. So I'm gonna show you those as well. And one of the key things is we looked at the permitting issues because these projects all had some permitting considerations. So we looked carefully at permitting issues, both at the state level and some of the other, one of the easements and thing of the town park, which I'm gonna discuss here in a minute. And at this point, at the end of October, we have basically a draft final package at this point and what the package is, is a document plan which I have a copy of that I brought along. And then with that plan, there's a series of attachments and all the attachments are the maps, the tables, all the supporting information that went into that. So that's all gonna be available to anybody at the town. I assume it could be put on the town website or it'll be available. It's meant to be a working document. And so it's a document that is now in place and it's gonna be used to kind of move these projects ahead for funding through the state. Are there any questions at this point? I can answer questions at the end too. I just realized that I'm done randomly with a lot. I have two questions. It says, meeting with project stakeholders. Who does that refer to? The project stakeholders really in this case were the town who we met with directly because the projects were, two of the projects were on town land. Well, actually all three were on town land. The park has some restrictions in terms of the Vermont Housing Conservation. It's BHCB and then it's the Community Development Agency, both of them, various set of restrictions. And so they were not present at those meetings, but we did a lot of back and forth with those groups to understand what the impacts to their easements were by this project. And so they would be the other big stakeholder, I think, in the process. My other question is, is Matt, you referred to regulatory that the idea here is to kind of get a jump start. How can we be sure that there aren't gonna be regulations added in that aren't being considered now? Sure, that's always a possibility. I mean, and it's likely that in the future, I mean, the state is gonna be going down in terms of the scale of what would be regulated. So it's possible that some of these areas that we've designed for will be regulated in the future. But I think that without knowing all the specifics, I think that we've, what we've designed is really kind of like a best fit. It's really the best you can do for the site. So I think that regardless of what those state requirements would be in the future, I think that we've maxed out what the site can handle. So I think we would need or exceed what would be done in the future, yeah, or required. Yeah. So yes, end of October. Okay, so just to give you an idea, and I have some maps, but just to introduce you to the top three projects. So the first one is the town park. And so the town park is an underground chamber system. So if you think of a leech field for wastewater, that's what we're proposing here. It's an underground series of chambers where water flow comes in, it fills up the chambers, and then it basically leaches down into the soil below. And the water that it's getting is actually from the stormwater line that runs down Route 100 and it discharges right at the bridge. And that collects, I'm gonna show you a map, that collects a large chunk of developed lands in the village here. And so just to give you the specs on that one, 6.6 acres of drainage area. So 424,500 cubic feet per year of water wouldn't be managed in that. 17,000 plus pounds of sediment per year, about seven pounds of phosphorus and about 21 pounds of nitrate. And the last two, I mean, that doesn't sound like a lot, but you know, seven pounds, but it's actually a lot in terms of when you're measuring the way that the state is calculating pollutants, this is a very big, big project. When you said the town park, I noticed you're saying it's under the preliminary cost, project cost, it says riverbrook park, which is different than the park in the village, it's the park. He's talking about the new park, not the main park. He's not talking about the park in the village. No, I think so, but you said town park, so that's what I think. I've been referring, I'm sorry, yeah. So it's riverbrook park, I can refer to. North and the town. And then north and the town, correct. Yeah, so then the town office actually, that site is another, it's a very similar type system. And it's actually right on the river side, let's see how I'm turned around, right over here. Yes. On this side of the building. So this site, if you're aware, so the parking lot, a lot of the parking lot drains off towards the river, there's a small river right along the side of the parking lot right here. And there's also a stormwater pipe network which drains up further up School Street. So we're basically proposing to pick a lot of that up and bring it into another system similar right along the river right here. I'm gonna show you a map of that one. Third one, the town barrage. And the town barrage is a, it's an underground type system which is intended to basically remove the oils and remove a lot of the sediment which from the yard surface itself. And that's much smaller I think but it was intended to be more of a best, like what I would say is a low cost solution for a site which really probably could use more improvement but we're careful not to want to overdo it in terms of the level of complexity on that site because that site is, as I understand it, potentially somewhat in flux in terms of the future of that site, in our view, it didn't really make sense to invest a ton of money into that site. But it made sense to design something that could really kind of get in the ground relatively cheaply and then start, having some decent benefits. So that's kind of what we designed on that site. So yeah, you can see the cost, 300,000 down to 67,000. I have a question. Yeah. The figures you have for the phosphorus and the drain, are they all estimated just based on the acreage or were there any monitoring, were those figures based on any type of real monitoring or are they just estimated? They're based on modeling. And so they're based on, right, so no field measurements. The modeling that we use is really the best available modeling. It is based on real science and it's based on real projects and actually sampling. It's based on testing. But not specific to those sites. Okay. So the park site, let's see, it's a little hard to see. You can see the purple boundary right here. So we're here, here's route 100. And so everything within the purple boundary, you can see the red lines right here. So that's an existing stormwater line. So all this area within this purple boundary gets collected in this catch basin network and it ends up coming out right at the river, right here. Here's the bridge. Here's the stream that runs through right here. And so our site is right here next to the fire station. And the idea with that site is it's going to be intercepting this red stormwater line. The other thing to note is that there's potentially gonna be a future sidewalk project here and we wanted to consider how these two projects could work together. And currently a lot of the water from route 100 actually goes north and it sheds off through these parcels. And it's actually creating quite a bit of erosion as it runs through here and it runs down the bank and it ends up down here by the town garage. And so what we're anticipating with the design work that we did was that the sidewalk that could potentially be built here in the future would create a dam for that water because you would need a curb. And so any of the water flow, which is presently now sheet flowing down, would actually be collected in this stormwater line and brought down into our system to manage. And so the net benefit would be by creating a sidewalk here, you'd be eliminating this condition where you have this water flow running down through these buildings and creating this erosion, which is not only a maintenance issue, but it's also a water quality issue because it's causing some erosion and that erosion is ending up in the pipe and it's going right to the river down here. There's a question about that. Just wondering about in those areas, there are driveways that go in there. So you know once we have a nice sidewalk curving that directs it mostly on that line, there's gonna be some areas still that will be opening to the water, so is there some other kind of infrastructure or something that will capture that so it didn't continue going down that way? I would think some additional catch strategically placed catch basins. You know, you're absolutely right, you wouldn't be able to dam it all, but I think with catch basins kind of right at the corners so that most of the flow and also just the recontouring of the road kind of directing into the catch basins, I feel like you could still capture a bunch of it. And maybe with some shimming or something, I'm just thinking if this would work just with having like a rise or something at that driveway inlet, so then you could position the catch basin, right? So does that all make sense in terms of the land area draining into this? So I mean, if you look at it, this is a big chunk of village that would come into this thing. I've already went through that. Yeah, so this is just basically looking at where, so you guys are probably familiar with this location, but it's basically right adjacent to the fire department there in the green space. So this is a plan, I have the design plan here, just to show you what this means. Here's your stormwater line. These are all the chambers and they sit under the ground and basically the grass gets restored right on top so no one would know they're there except for the fact that we would need to take out some trees. If the two trees, I guess there's three trees, there's this one right here and those two. What we've talked about is potentially replanting closer to the river because there really is a need at this site to kind of improve the buffering of the river because the buffer vegetation closer to the river would be beneficial. So it could be that those trees that were lost could be replanted closer to the river. But other than the trees, basically it would just be a green space and you wouldn't know that it's there aside from a manhole. Basically like a great access to maintain it. So the second project at the town office, very similar. So again, the purple line is the drainage boundary so the water that would be collected. So here's where we are, the parking lot, School Street. This red line right here, this is a catch basin and there's a pipe and then the river is over here so currently everything that drains down School Street this way and this way comes into this catch basin and then gets discharged to the river right here. So what we're proposing to do is actually collecting that by means of taking that water and bringing it all the way down here and doing another one of these little systems right down in this little pull-off area that exists right next to the building here. There, right now there's no buffer really at all. The stream is right there. There's kind of some erosion and some debris that's piled there and it's just not a good situation. So what we're proposing to do is put these chambers in and then basically improve the buffer. So replanting along the river just to basically shade it and help with the erosion. This is what it looks like. The top one is from the river. Looking forward, you can see there's a little pull-off there and then the bottom one is looking so the brook is right over that bank so that's kind of what it looks like right now it's a bunch of knotweed there so just a great place to pull that out and do a better planting and then put this system in which is basically gonna stop all the stormwater from heading into the river and instead put it in the ground. This is just, and I have a plan right here but you can just see here are the chambers right here. So we have a new pipe right along right here into the chambers so this would be no longer. No stormwater wouldn't come out here anymore. It would come down here, come down here. It'd be underground and then it would infiltrate into the soil and not discharge the river. So this is what the chambers look like. So you basically excavate a hole, you put down stone, and then these chambers come on a truck and they come in pieces and the workers basically line them out and they snap together. I've seen one built in two hours. They actually go together incredibly quickly. The biggest part of it is excavating the hole and dumping a lot of stone in there. It takes a lot of material. So the chambers go into place, stone gets buried around the chambers and soil gets put on top and then you can drive on them, you can do all kinds of things and the stormwater is basically just using those as storage and infiltration. And just on the left is a flyer. We just did, the one on the right is actually just a stock photo from their website but the one on the left is from the Cambridge Elementary School where we just designed and they just recently installed a big system there that manages a big part of the Cambridge Elementary School. And so the picture on the right is actually after these went in. So it's just, I know it's a little hard to see but it's basically just looks like grass. So those chambers are underground now and they're functioning there. So then the final of the three is the town garage. So again, here's that pipe I was telling you about with the other site. So what's left, all this water flow that's coming down from the properties right along route 100 all drains down and it ends up in a swale and a ditch and then the red is a pipe. And so all this, all this relatively dirty surface because it's a working surface obviously these guys are working, they're using it with trucks and a lot of materials and a lot of sediment is getting picked up in this catch basin and it's coming out at a pipe right at the river. And so it's anything that's ending up in that catch basin is just getting flushed into the river at that point. There's also a period of stockpile on the back of the state which is right up along the river. That's also a big concern. It's an issue that we're trying to brainstorm on how to address that. I can talk a little bit about that afterward if people are interested but the main thing I wanted to describe here is the, this is just a view of the site just to show you, if you look at the middle you can just see basically the site is right up against the river. No buffer, there's a lot of, what's there for buffer is actually invasive. And so what we're proposing on this site is to basically put in a new pipe that comes along the backside. So anything that currently flows down the road right here it's flowing over land to the river and creating some erosion right here. We would be picking that up so we'd be taking all that water flow and bringing it into a pipe here. And then we have a basically a concrete structure right here which is called a hydrodynamic separator. It's basically a fancy word for when the water comes in it gets swirled around, swirled around and all the debris that's in the water gets moved to the center and then it flows down and it gets trapped in there. And so essentially it creates a place for sediment and oils, debris, floatable stuff, cups, cigarette butts, all that stuff gets basically trapped in there. And that would need to be pumped out periodically to remain functional. And so that's what's proposed there. So it's a relatively, when I say, I know $67,000 is still a lot of money but it's a relatively low cost project. It's kind of a best fit project for that site. There's probably more that could be done there but I think it's a good compromise. And really the next steps at this point is moving these three projects there is some additional design work that needs to be done to get them ready so you could hand them off to somebody to build. So that work would need to be done. And then chasing funding is the next step. And really this plan gives you the tool to do that because when you put forth grant opportunities referencing that these projects are in the plan and they're ranked high is what the state wants to see in terms of funding these projects because they know that somebody's already taken a look and it's not just taking a shotgun approach to say, you know, we wanna do this one but it's been documented in the plan. I think I've just basically the only other things I could discuss. There are several different funding sources out there right now. And so Mary I think is plugged into a lot of those in the town as well and is as well. So they have a lot of experience working with some of these different opportunities. And I think just to close the loop on the permitting issues I was talking about making sure all these projects would be feasible. I actually just got the last email today from the VHCB person saying, and this is for the town park saying that he was on board with that. He thought it was a great project. So I was really excited. We cleared a lot of hurdles with that. We went through the state people. They took a hard look at it. They had questions, did a lot of back and forth with them but I think in the end all three of these projects should be feasible from a permitting standpoint. And so that's good because obviously you don't wanna get to the point of pushing these long and then figuring out that there's a permit that's gonna be blocking during the project. So that's, I'm happy to ask and answer any questions. That separator you've got at the town garage or behind the town garage, how big is that one? How many pounds or how many gallons will that hold before they have to clean it? That's a good question. It's a six foot diameter concrete structure. But how deep? About six feet, eight feet. I can get you. I don't remember exactly. No, I'm just asking a question. Because I know that we've worked on a couple and they can't afford to pump them. Can't afford to pump them? No, so they're dropping a sump pump in it and pumping them in the shoveling mill. You're saying a town or is it a private one? One in town and one's public municipality. I mean, it's actually good. I'm glad you raised the issue because I didn't talk about maintenance at all. So all three of these systems will need maintenance. I'm not trying to throw rocks here. They can't afford it, so they're not. You need a vector truck. Yeah, you need a vector truck. But they're charging big money because they don't like to put trash in their sewer pumpers. That's what the pumping is, a vector truck? It's a vector truck just like you would clean a catch basin. So to describe to the chambers. The giant vacuum. Yes, the chambers have one of the tubes where the water first comes in is wrapped in fabric. And so nothing gets out of that. So that one just over time will fill up with sediment. And these are big chambers. And so it's not gonna be a year. Correct. It's gonna be- Quarterly probably. Well, no, I think it's gonna be several years before you'll fill it up. Oh, no, I meant the trash. Yes, I'm going, sorry, I'm going to a different. I'm going to a different one now. I'm going to the chambers. Bigger one, too. And so every coat, and it's gonna depend. Somebody's gonna have to go and there's an observation port and you look and you'll see if the sediment is building up. And when it's building up to like, you know, a third or half full of that chamber, it's past time to get it cleaned out. And you will have to have somebody come in with a back truck and they basically stick a nozzle down with a jet and they suck out all the sediment. And they do the same thing with that. Correct. With that downstream defender, it's a manhole. Put their back down, pump it out. So that happens to the stuff that they pump out. They truck it away, but where does it go from there? Goes to the landfill or the wastewater treatment? The wastewater treatment doesn't work. Yeah. I mean, to be honest with the, it's kind of the, there's no getting around it. Everybody is- No, I fully understand it. Yeah, yeah. It's an expensive cost. It is. It's a necessary evil. Evil. Everybody in, you know, it's everybody's main concern. Well, how do I maintain, you know, we don't have the ability to maintain this. So ideally in the future, as more of this infrastructure gets put into place, towns can share resources. You know, if there's other, these systems somewhere, I don't, you know, you get somebody down for a half a day and clean out four or five systems. You can do it. I know we're, we just put one in Warren, where we have like three other ones potentially and other towns in the Matterer Valley. So they don't have a vector. They're gonna be in the same boat. These are all recent installations, so they haven't experienced that. They've wanted more in elementary school that was just put in earlier this summer. Yeah. They've also put in a bunch of dry wells. Similar maintenance, back during this summer. So, see how it goes. I'll let you know. Thank you. Yeah. Get in the vector business, right? No. No. It's a big, big additional investment. It's like growing industry. Yeah. Do you have an idea about what it would cost to say pump out the unit at the town garage? I'm gonna throw out a wild guess, 1,500 bucks. And that's gonna have to be done quarterly, isn't it? No, so every couple of years? Yeah. I mean, if you really wanna be on it, I would say every year, but if you don't every other year, it all depends how much junk is getting in there, you know? It can be designed with, you know, the catch basin that's ahead of it. If it's designed with a deep sump, so that a lot of the junk kind of gets caught before it goes into that thing, you can kind of save, you know, more storage there less times if you have to actually. Inspections. I mean, can the town not do the inspections if we hire this out? I think the towns, it could be designed with a little port on the chambers. Basically, you take a, you take a stadia rod. Right. And port, that's all it is. It's not anything, you just wanna make sure, you know, there isn't standing water in there three days after a storm or, you know, that would be a indication if something's wrong. So say in a situation like Irene, when it's just inundated, I assume it would fill up with water and then the rest would just run off past it. Would that tend to just fill it right up with sediment or who knows? Who knows? I mean, I definitely thought really hard about that because I know especially the one at the park is, it's obviously, it's flooded before. So we were really concerned about that. And I think, you know, talking with the people in the rivers department at DEC, I think where it is, it's as protected as it can be in terms of like where it is on that site. If it were to get totally inundated, I'm sure there's gonna be sediment that's gonna end up in there. And it's gonna have to be totally inundated. But it would be in that first initial fabric wrapped chamber, it wouldn't trash the whole unit. That's the only way the water can get in. And so if that got said, you know, filled up, then this stuff would just run off and do what it does now. Yeah. Is there any statewide experience or history to fall back out as far as cleaning these systems? Is it just too new? There are a number of them in the ground right now. I would say for the most part, there are ones where there is a permit, a state permit on the site that requires the owner of the site to inspect and maintain the system at least once a year. So where these are put in with a permit condition, you're basically required every year to go out and look and evaluate. So the state actually does have a lot of data on it. Is there any over 10 years old? Yeah. Is there a few fuel in the flood plain? I mean, I'm calling this one in the flood plain down in the park. It's in some flood plain, right? It's not in the hundred year. No, but it's gonna get flooded. Right? And I think the design life of these things is 30 or 40 years. And so you take a chance. I mean, it's a risk for sure. I mean, there's no question of this. But there are, no, there's definitely these that are kind of in similar locations. And there's ones that have been in the ground. Like we did one for V-Trans lot in Morrisville three years ago. I don't think that they've, I'm actually, I know they haven't pumped it out yet and it's working fantastically. It's working really well. So I don't have any hard data on it. I just, I talked to the guys and they said they've never seen it overflow. They've never had issues with it. They check it for the sediment. The sediment accumulation is very minor. So I mean, that's, that's my anecdotal. Does the sediment you feel as if, of course it comes in to one end? Does the sediment you assume gonna go like this? Right. It will, you'd have more. Like a leech field. It's right, you'd have more of that inlet and then it would, yeah. Cause the stuff is heavy, it's not gonna flow. Yeah, and you have on that tube that's wrapped in fabric, there's actually, you have a manhole at either end with a 24 inch pipe. And so that's how you get in to maintain it. So you can access it from both sides and you use a 24 inch pipe because that's the easiest way for somebody to get in the proper tool to, to gen it. So we put it on our Christmas list. You think Santa Claus will bring it to us? Yeah, it hurts to ask. Yeah, thank you, Trump. You've asked for bigger things, huh? Well, thank you. Yeah, that's good. Sure. Thank you. You wanna say a few words about your ideas for containing the cell file? Sure. So we, we did look at the fact that the back of the pile is sloughing off into the river. And one of the, one of the ideas that we looked at was creating some more, some degree of retainage. So basically making a higher wall, a concrete blocks, which would do a better job just containing that pile. And what the feedback we got from the state is that by doing that, I think we would be looking at additional floodplain concerns by creating, you know, additional structures. And so, I don't, you know, the other kind of more passive idea was just to basically reshape the pile. If it was possible after we did, so the connection that I was talking about with that new pipe coming through. Potentially if that work was done and there was a way to basically relocate some of the equipment that's currently kind of being stored around where that new catch basin is. So on the, it would be on the, it's on the east side of the shed. There, it seems like you could elongate the pile a little more so that it could be pulled a little closer away from the river. I know it's a really highly constrained site, but I was just trying to think about, instead of trying to build up a wall, if you could just kind of reshape the pile so that it's longer and skinnier and so that you could just have a little more room between that and the river because it, the currently the way it is is that the pile is just continuing to slough off on the back side, right, right in the materials basically just going right into the river and it's just the fact that it's just so close. You know, then it's gonna freeze. You're gonna have a longer, a narrower pile, it's gonna freeze. Correct. Is that right? Yeah, I think now we'll start reshaping the pile. Yeah. We don't serve you things. Yeah. If you look at it, there's a lot of pile there. Everybody go look again. Yeah. It's, it's not an issue there about it. Yeah. I mean, there's, ideally it would be somewhere else, but I understand. Yeah. There is no somewhere else. So what about this? Hopefully I'm more concerned about the salt shed and two feet, two rows. And drainage coming into it. Yeah, run straight through it. Yeah. I think that's more important. So there are grants for, but I don't think you want to dig down the back of that building either. What's that? I don't think you want to dig down the back side of that building. For the new pipe? You're saying? Yeah. The building's already settling. I think if you dig down through there, it may collapse. What's your setback from the sewer from the temporary? You might, might be better off to come down the front of the building. Oh, right. Along the front. And you can accomplish the same thing, maybe with our cave and. Yeah. The visiting end. Because that would get you a setback from your sewer. Yeah. I don't recall exactly where, where is the, can you, where is the sewer? South. Oh, here, just right here. Southwest. No, no, the sewer of the building. Oh, yeah, the, where does the line come off? Do we know? In the middle. In the middle. Don't worry, I'll be back. I'll be back towards the river. I'll just keep going as long as I'm saying that. I'm sorry. I don't know. Yeah, right. Well, that would have to be worked out. I wouldn't think you'd want to put it in the back because you wouldn't have any separation from your sewer. Sure, I mean, it can, you know, like you're saying, you could go, you could come around the building too. You can come around the front side of the building potentially. I mean, that, you know, that, just to be clear too, this is the, you know, details like that for all of these. Right, they would have to. They have to be worked out. No, I understand, I just think it. But yeah, I mean, if it makes more sense to come around, you know, basically just come around the front and tee in there, I think that, I think that would be good. Yeah. And, you know, I looked at, I was hoping that the soil conditions would actually be pretty good here, but they're not. From what I saw, there's a lot of buried material there. So. There was a sawmill there. After you? Yeah. So good. Congrats. Oh, okay. There's a sawmill. Yeah. But the other two sites have good material for putting the water back into the ground and the park and right along the edge of the building here is good gravel. So the next step you had identified the town garage as the really the first low hanging fruit at least expensive. And so we'd be looking at grant money to try and do something about that. Maybe the most important effects was close to the river. Yeah. They were contaminating. You know, Mary and I have, you know, one preliminary conversation about what the thoughts of the building. So I was, you know, talking about what you want to do in your time and keep having a conversation. Well, it really all depends on what kind of money's out there to do it. We can put a proposal in front of you pretty quick. I think we've got some ideas about grants that could be coming up soon. So would that be the best next step is to let you know what we find and you guys. Yeah. We can do that. Does any of this design change if the town garage moves? Which? It's not, yeah. You wouldn't often, if you do that. I understand the key topic. We keep hearing requests to move our town garage. Right. Yeah, I mean. Well, it would still be addressing runoff coming down to that area. So it wouldn't be. It would. The waste. It would. It would have a legacy there to the garage move. Absolutely. To all the activities. Right. That's what I was just, I was thinking through the question. Yeah, and really the infrastructure would probably still stay in terms of the piping and the fact that there's the stormwater outfall. And so, yeah, it wouldn't be a waste. Yeah, and water's still gonna go down there even if the garage moves. Right. You're still getting water down, down the road and also through the ditch. And then that goes into the culvert line. So yeah, it would still be worthwhile. All right. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. So I guess we'll, while he's packing up, we'll move on into our regular meeting and ask if anyone has any additions to the agenda for tonight. Susie. Let's go some down. Well, no. Just let me know what they are so we can get them on the, you know, in addition. Well, each year I'd like to select more to talk about, finally, in such a way so that the snow's not, knocking down the fence, cleaning part of the lot in my yard. And good luck with these long, reminding each other that it's going on. Well, good thing that Kooter's sitting right behind you because he's the guy to talk to about it. Well, we can build a new fence in the spring, I don't know. And I just have some questions about policy in terms of the town clerk area in election day, blocking the roads specifically. Okay. All right, anybody else have any other additions? And we can come back to that, but just get it all on the paper here. Nope, and then we'll go back to you. What's, yeah, what did you want to talk about? The Russell usually talks to somebody, but Russell's living out in Marshfield now, so if the snow gets plowed that way, it becomes a problem because each year we have to replace part of the fence. And it hasn't been that bad. It's been on the two boards every other year or so. But if it gets plowed down this way and then over, would you say they usually have been doing it? Yeah. There's no way we can get 100% of it. Oh, I know that, I know that. But there's a difference between that and having a 12 foot wall there. Yeah. You know, I'm not crazy. I'm just, you know, we would want to work together. That's all. We'll get it 100% this weekend. And as you know, if the fence gets knocked down, I'll come back and we'll work something out. All right, all right, yeah. My other question is, is that on election day, it was a very large bus parked here, which, to my understanding, is that the right of the people they were representing, they were representatives, I guess. Yeah. But I spent a lot of time on my porch and a lot of people would be coming down the school street and ready to pull in and they'd back up because it was confusing to them as to what to do and then they'd come around. And it just, logistically, was not a good situation. I don't, I did speak with Joanne about it. I guess a number of people did. I agree, it was an awkward situation. Yeah, yeah, I'm just wondering if there's a way of preventing that in the future or if it's just a matter of, it's just the way it is. I think it's a matter of communication and getting with the people. I mean, everyone has a right to park a vehicle and have their political signs on it, if they want, that was a rather large vehicle. Another thing that will help is I've put it out to other clerks to try to get policies on how they handle this in their polling areas. And once I get a few samples, we need to contact the BCA and get them together for a meeting and maybe the select board too, to just create a written policy that can be handed out to any future people. So what's VT? BCA, which is the Board of Civil Authority. Yeah, yeah, that would be the justices of the piece, select board. There's a little bit of irony here in that if it made it awkward for people to get in to vote, because in talking with the fellow that had the bus there, his intention was to be stationed here and be ready to go and get people who couldn't get here to vote. He was offering rides to people to come here and vote, but it was, um. It would have been better off with something smaller. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Well, they had to pick up truck too. Yeah, I had to pick up truck too. Anyway, done. Okay, thank you. Yeah, always room for improvement, yeah, yeah. Good start, Vick. All right, let's move on to the minutes from the last meeting of Monday, October 22nd. And I didn't see any problems with them. So I moved that we accept these as presented. I second. All in favor? All right. All right. And we also have the minutes for the special emergency select board meeting on October 30th to deal with the amending the line of credit. And that looked clear to me. I moved to accept those minutes. I second. All in favor? All right. All right. Thank you. Yep. Got those. Joan, you already talked a lot. Is that all she has for updates? She's talking to the other guys again. She's all right, she's in the other one. Don't have any from the calls for it. Cooter, you ready for winter? No. No? But it's coming. Well, you have a broken truck. Oh, the newest one, right? The new truck, the old one. Yeah. Well, I don't operate on it at this point in time. So has that been? Wednesday, we go to Norrisville with the PTO issue. Yep. And the warranty? Should be. Yeah, better be. It's something I can have on the phone with them today. Under. There's Fairfield? It's a little like a solenoid. I know that's a problem, but he told me if I touched it, they probably weren't going to want to do it. So I did touch it. Is this Fairfield? Yeah. And there helps all the deer in it. Right, yeah. The odds are just against us, huh? So you're expecting me to get that fixed by the end of the week? By the end of the day Wednesday? Yeah. Is that something they would do that day and go up Wednesday and come back? Or do you have to leave it up there? Well, we put the sander in the pick up room. Yep. There's nothing they can do to make that word. No. No, all right. I can take the dryer all off, but it doesn't give you a word. They didn't want some. Yeah, right, right. So this is for the plow? Excuse me? For the plow, the front plow? For the plow or the dump body and the sander. OK. Nothing to do with grains. Nothing to do with grains. No. She can't grainy them. We were just lucky that the plow was up. It didn't work, so we could get it all easy. The body was a cool thing. It was a little salt. Oh, that weighs a lot. That's right. Not that good. Well, we'll figure it out. We have a new business. It's time to designate a health officer. And we're going to talk to John White and see if he's still willing to take that position. So we're going to see if that will work. If you're watching John, we're looking for you. I spoke with him tonight about town health issue. So I believe he's still on board. Still on board? All right. Good. Are you going to designate it? We're going to talk to him first, yeah. I mean, that's usually the way you do it. Designate it. Can I ask a question with highway? Yeah. How are you doing about the Bethel Mountain Road? Getting it looked at. Fixed. That's the lower part of it. Yeah. Did we ever actually determine that? That would crisp bump. And that was springtime. But we have not taken any further steps since then with the change of highway department personnel and all. We were giving Cooter a little opportunity to settle in. I understand that. I don't know what until he got his feet on the ground. Now's a good time to start. So I didn't, you know, I didn't want to bother you before that. I didn't want to bother. When Cooter first came on, I just, I'm not complaining. And I just, it's getting a little, you know. We keep making noise when the grounds come up and throwing that out there as an important project that needs to be on the way. The state, are you, you know, I mean. Beyond Chris. Not far. Chris, I don't know. He's asking about the Bethel Mountain Road and if there's any progress in terms of getting that recognized as an important project in the state's eyes. Which one? The lower part of Bethel Mountain Road. Oh, the slope? The slope, yeah. Well, you know, we do have a grant to get the engineering done. And I've asked Cricket to just help me put together the wording for a bid package. Like, because it's very similar to what we had to do for the rest of the slide. Yeah. It's sort of complicated language that, you know, you have to be able to say the right thing to put out an invitation. It's an RFP to get engineering firms to come and, you know, make a proposal for figuring out what's going on there and what's the right way to address it. And we want them to be able to do what's called, I just learned that's kind of called an alternative analysis. So they don't just come in and say, oh, here's the way to do it. Here, you know, it's the way to do it. And it might be very expensive and it might not even work. But they look at all the different ways that they could attack the problem. I mean, on what they determine the problem is what's making that slope fail. And then come up with different alternatives and then we would get help figure out which alternative is the most appropriate one. And then the next, you know, grant round, what that would be 2020 would be to then pass the money for actually doing the work. But we do have a grant for the engineering line. In the meantime, I would like, I would still like to have some photo documentation of what it does look like over that bank so that we would have a benchmark to say, you know, I wanted that in the springtime so that we could look at it from every six months to see how it's holding up. And I know that means walking up and down that got off the bank, but I think that would be very valuable since we're looking at 2020 and when the engineer's coming, we can look and see for ourselves what we saw versus what they're doing as well. Pick a thing, take a walk up the bank. I would walk it with you. I don't know, I just, you know, if somebody was to build a house and say it, McCoy's, you know, they got a pretty good nut to crack and I don't think First Street's the road to take and get the material there. Yeah. First Street. And I don't think Booder wants to work street to get used like that. No, it's already been a trying summer at times already. Yeah. With those of us that do honor. Yeah, that honor. There's a few that don't. Oh my God, there's two trucks the other night. I had cobalt plates. Took pictures of one coming off of 53 footer just this week. Did they build? And they go back over. And they go back over, you know. Hey, Dr. GBS. I'm going to say they're GBS. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think maybe a bigger sign at the bottom. I don't know where. Excellent. Mark, that's a good one. You better have an ancient angle up there and take some, instead of been trying to take some shots, and then go back. Yeah. That would be better than pictures. Yeah. We need to document the progress of what's going on. And the right son. You know, because we were, you know, Dan said he had walked it and we believe what he said when he recommended that we, you know, close that road down. I myself have never looked down over the bank. I could be horrified or I could scratch my head. I'm not quite sure. I tried to do it, but I was really uncomfortable. I tried to walk up and just sit. I know, maybe get a hundred of them to be there. And I tried to come from below, but I just, I've got a zipper. Pretty wild. Yeah. It's also not safe to try to walk up. No. I just think, I just think, you know, I didn't know and what's being done. And I, now that Cooter's had some time to, you know, Well, no, he's got another problem coming. And it'd be nice, you know, but. Yeah. Well, it's, it's out there and it won't let us forget about it. That's fine. No, okay. I'm just, I'm not trying to be a nuisance. Nope. Nope. Hmm. Library. Where's the audit? Do the library. We've got a contract here for the winter maintenance on the. Jesse and Marco are going to do the library winter maintenance. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's the acknowledgement of arbitration and all the contract documents. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So make sure you guys sign both pages. Why are you signing? I'm sorry. It's a, it's a contract that BLCT has given us for work that is being done by people who have no workers comp. In this case, it's a young guy who's doing the library winter maintenance. Okay. So if you signed a contract for the work, for library maintenance work. Yeah. Yeah. And also we have here. The management letter for Pace and Holly regarding the upcoming audits of the town books. And you're signing that too? Yes. A letter to the board from Janice McCann requesting that in future her property, bordering Brook Street, not be mowed by the town or its contractors. And she will assume responsibility for her property management. And I think we tried to make this request last year and then they mowed it just like in Harland. They got on it pretty quick and mowed it anyway. But I'm going to go with the flag on. It's my fault. Well, okay. Well, so anyway, she's right on it. You can come here and say something. Okay. I think I'd put a copy of this in your, your file cooter just so we can stick it in the roadside mowing for future. Yeah. Take the guy up and. If you talk about that, like you just say, you know, leave my property alone. If you, Harley, actually, yeah, if you'd want to just give me like a, something that I can put in a folder so that when we do roadside mowing next time, I can give it right to the guy. Yeah. You know, we can at least maybe take him for a ride and show him where not to go. That, that might be more helpful. Or, you know, even a notice being in the paper or something like a couple of weeks before, you know, a month before. We do usually do that, but it's, yeah. What's that? It happened pretty quick. Yeah, it did happen pretty quick. Excuse me. All right. So in, in terms of the Brookfield service and the school generator, we used to have like $238 credit. As soon as I get the bill, that will be gone. All right. Because we had to come out last week. So we're going to use that and see what the balance is afterwards. And then we'll evaluate whether or not we want to sign this contract with them or investigate other options. We're referring that down the road. Yep. Can down the road a little bit. Use up the credit. And, and that is that. Thank you all for coming out. I'm going to pay some bills. So Harlan, did you forget to put something on the agenda? It's new in Bingo. Say what? It's new in Bingo. What's new in Bingo? People are hunting out there.