 We're live You got to give me like a hand signal or something like you're live thumbs up. I'll take it Hey folks, welcome to behind the scenes with Saints and Sages. I just kind of made that up on the spot We're just doing a little bit of promotion prior to the show So you can skip ahead 30 seconds if you wish if this is the first recording But you shouldn't because we got some good stuff to say we got some courses coming up for the Avala Institute spring of 2021 This one I'm really excited about the Christian meaning of suffering according to st. John Paul the second It's a brand-new course by professor Simone Simone. I'm sorry I never know how to pronounce your last name, but you're an incredible woman who is full of lots of wisdom and I want to take This course because it sounds incredible. I was just speaking to somebody about this at dinner last night actually But if you want to partake in this course from Professor Simone the great powerful Applied to the Avala Institute by Tuesday April 27th This year would be nice because we don't know what's gonna happen next year It's gonna be on Thursdays 8 30 p.m. To 10 30 p.m. Eastern time It's our school of spiritual formation the second course that you should check out is Marion apparitions in the modern world By professor Peter Howard the great and powerful He's also awesome. What are you gonna give me that look for? Our producers giving me looks and when she does that I never know if I'm actually saying something wrong See, here's the problem folks. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect. For instance, I need to issue a correction I said that GK Chesterton was friends with C. S. Lewis not the case I was thinking of Tolkien GK Chesterton Tolkien were friends for like 40 years Although they had a period of time where they were not friends. Anyway that aside. We all make mistakes. What was the other one? I said you had said that. Oh, yeah, that that st. Paul was yeah walking See, this is why I'm like I need people. I need my producer. I rely on her more now So if she gives me a look, I know that I've said something stupid. So she's Okay, you know what? Now I now I don't know. I don't even marry in Marion apparitions in the modern world professor. Dr. Peter Howard applied at the Adela Institute by Wednesday, March 10th 2021 those are gonna be on Wednesdays from 8 30 to 10 p.m. Eastern time That's also the school of spiritual formation. Those are some late classes But that you know, honestly, if I'm gonna stay up late at night and do something That's that's probably what I'm gonna do And you can find all this information on on avala dash Institute org right right you don't remember what Jordan said But I'm super Christian meaning of suffering according to St. John Paul II come on now Come on now. That's right on my alley suffering is is good Those are the things those are the corrections and now that we have finished that And we have eight people viewing. Hey, if you're viewing live right now, we would really appreciate you Typing something in the comments because we might do something at the end It depends if we're not exhausted where we depends on your comments It depends on your comments comment right right and we might pop it up on the screen and post a smiley We will not put a smiley face on the screen. I'm telling you right now No, no emoji only a cowboy hat. We we want we want engaged comments. We want people saying Hey, I love this episode. I didn't know XYZ or like can you tell me more about XYZ? I know there's we're gonna start posting XYZ in the comments. That's fine If you put XYZ we may post we'll see what happens. So if you're watching all six of you We lost two people already. That's what I get for rambling. Okay. All right embarrassing moving forward. Are you ready? Sure. Are you ready? Okay, we're getting thumbs up Hey, I'm Jordan Burke and I'm Kristen Pirola and this is Saints and Sages where we talk about the wisdom of the Saints and how it's relevant for you This is a episode that I am really looking forward to because it's a doozy Right. This is another saint that as soon as I started researching her. I Really really loved what I read her story is so expansive and there's so much in it I was a little I was actually this is the first time I was a little overwhelmed to Try to figure out What we need to talk about because we only have a limited amount of time and there's just so much there It could be made into a movie her life. It really could be expansive. That's a good That's a good point. It really could be made into a movie But we are talking about today on her feast day Saint Francis of Rome Yes, and she in fact is the patron saint of motorists and widows Which I thought was kind of random until I read her story But she's often depicted as a woman habited in black with a white veil. Although when she was alive She used to wear a scrap scrappy. What was the word we scraggly? Scrumpy frumpy frumpy She wore a green dress a shabby Coming in green dress But she's also usually depicted with a guardian angel by her side and sometimes carrying a basket of food And you all see why in just a second. Well, so her story is really interesting So she obviously if the name didn't give it away she was in Rome, right? Saint Francis of Rome living in Rome kind of works but born in 1384 and she was born into a really noble and wealthy family and What's really fascinating is that what I'm struck with anyway Is that we have another instance of somebody who had an incredibly young age knew exactly what they wanted and in her Case she wanted to be a nun at the age of 11. She's like nope. I want to be married to Jesus that's it drop Mike game over nothing else and That just wasn't the way of the world at that time. Unfortunately. I mean her dad had promised her to This guy named Lorenzo another wealthy family and that's kind of how things operate Yeah, it was kind of a ranged marriage situation and her family had just complete opposite plans What she really wanted was to become a sister and and go into religious life so at an early age like you said she had to say no to her desires and She actually went to a priest begging for his intercession and advice and was like please like anything What can I do like I want to be a religious and I don't want to get married What can I do and he asked her something that was really unsettling for her as like it would have been for me, too Asking was that was she seeking his help because she wanted to conform herself to God's will or because she wanted to Conform to God in the world or hers, right? So this was a game-changer for her because she it helped her realize Yeah, I need to live in God's will and this is what I want But I have to deny myself right and this is kind of the beginning of this common theme throughout her life of Uniformity with God's will which I'm obsessed with and I love Santa Fonda So gory wrote uniformity of God's will but this is a really beautiful example of how it's lived out And we'll see as we continue through her story How it's a really kind of woven in all these different kind of wild Circumstances that just exemplify her having to surrender everything she wanted to what God wanted and I don't know I love this kind of stuff. I love this is kind of my wheelhouse. I love this kind of stuff But what's also interesting to me is that her husband? Lorenzo came as we noted came from a noble and wealthy family, but it was written that he was actually a really good man Like this wasn't one of those situations where it was a ranged marriage and I think we have this I mean, obviously we have a negative connotation because it's a negative thing, but I think in the stories It's usually like it's an arranged marriage and the guy is terrible. Yeah in this case the guy was actually a really good guy Yeah, so and even despite this marriage was such a huge sacrifice for her not to mention She's 11 years old. So that's a whole different Thing yeah, so she got married at 11 or was she 13? Well, so she had I think she may have been 13 I think her first child was at 14 or 16 one of the two was something like that. Yeah, really young I mean really really young But what the biggest problem was being a part of this like noble wealthy family her mother-in-law Lorenzo's mom was Socialite right and wanted to throw these parties and do all this stuff, you know Her mother-in-law's daughter, which we'll talk about I'm gonna call Van because I can't pronounce her name Forgive me. I think it's Van Nozda. Is that like that? Yeah, so I'm gonna say Van forgive me just for the sake of not making mistakes Was a part of that and was living that life and was being sociable and was talking to these people and was doing all these things and it was expected that That St. Francis would come and be a part of that as well and would live up to that standard and Well, and I think a lot of it too is if you if you can imagine she wanted to be religious so she was naturally more Desiring silence and prayer and contemplative life. And so being thrown into this family That's all about Enthusiasm and party culture and social. This was really hard for her to take on because she wanted to be like in the corner Like don't talk to me They were encouraging her and expecting of her to be attentive at these parties and In fact, it really led to her collapse in fact quite literally I mean she was she was written that she was near death for months unable to move on the will eat unable to speak just in a Catatonic state doing absolutely nothing and this is kind of where so we had this interesting Her story is like a mountain to me where it's you know She climbs and she has this peak when she's talking to the confessor and the confessor says You're will or gods. What are you doing? Right? And then she kind of has this like rocky aspect to it and then now she's hitting this other peak Physically of her journey right physical struggle as well So but this this peak is another spiritual peak where as she's sick She has a vision of st. Alexis who comes to her and says basically do you want to recover or not? I mean you're laying here. You want to die. We know this You don't want to be here You already talked about doing god's will but do you want to recover or not? And she says What was written? She says uh, it was the hardest word she ever had to say which is god's will is mine God's will is mine again the surrender this uniform need to god's will So st. Alexis tells her awesome Excuse me Allergies are out of control St. Alexis tells her awesome Then you will live to glorify his name and she recovered basically immediately and fully physically recovered and not really inspired lorenzo Because she was absolutely miserable and then when st. Alexis came and she said god's will is mine It was like snap a finger She she felt better and just a side note st. Alexis was a son of a noble family And had run away to to beg rather than get married. So I think that's why there's a similar story. Yeah Yeah, exactly So now she's healed and of course, you know lorenzo's like oh man My wife is super holy and my and the mother-in-law is like, oh man Like my daughter-in-law is super holy. I should leave her be not the case The mother-in-law decided hey now that you're better We can party again. Let's go back to this party life. Right. Yeah Yeah, didn't not not good. Just know it seems throughout this that and I think if I recall correctly There might be some change in the mother-in-law, but currently in the story the mother-in-law is just not clued in She is just so set on Interestingly, I mean The world, you know, she said on i'm noble i'm this i'm this we're doing this is my life Right, there's nothing more than this and we're going to focus on this at the detriment and cost of others Well, it's interesting that francis is so young to recognize the beauty of the spiritual life And she had a vibrant spiritual life and fasted and prayed and and But to also not desire these worldly things right because she could have had it made and like a lot of people Probably looking in would be like girl. You've got everything like you've got all the dresses. You've got all the jewels You got the man Yeah of your dreams and you don't like it like what's wrong with you right? Yeah people couldn't understand it right right internally She's suffering still suffering even after this so It's it's it's and this is even a beautiful representation of the struggle that we all deal with Daily in different ways, but to your point I mean you just laid out all these reasons that she should be super She should be super how i'm doing for those listening i'm doing air quotes She should be super happy and thankful for everything that's going on and she's still suffering So next we find her in the garden weeping Right just weeping over the circumstances despite all this goodness that she has she's just weeping And this is when she makes her new spiritual buddy, you know her her sister-in-law van again I think it's like a venosa But I really hate messing up people's names. So i'm gonna say van And during this interaction frances confided in her And they kind of came to you know and van says, you know, I understand I actually want to serve god as well and this was a beautiful moment for her because Francis seemed to have this misunderstanding of van that was like you're a socialite too You're just in it just because she was bubbly enjoy fields energized at the parties right? She was just that's like her personality exactly exactly. Yeah, she didn't it wasn't like She wasn't this socialite. So again, I'm doing air quotes for those listening. I should probably stop doing that It's not like she was enjoying the parties. She didn't want to be there either. She wanted to be religious as well And this is when she found a companion in her sister-in-law. Yes, and it's a beautiful thing and that's a fantastic representation Holy friends and the need for community and this Became became like another peak of those mountains, right another turning point or another peak of those mountains in her journey um Because of this her in Francis and van they started Well, let me back up This was really beautiful in another way because van exemplified what Francis should have been doing in the sense that I'm here. I don't want to be here But I'm going to serve and I'm going to fulfill my obligations with christlike love and that was really Well exemplified in van in her bubbliness and her happiness and doing these different things even though she wanted to serve christ But because of their friendship both now van becomes kind of like this exemplar of this virtue so to speak and then They are able to enter into a friendship that says okay now Okay, you're really good at this. I'm really good at this Let's let's combine our two forces and make like the super friends and this i'm explaining this really poorly They super friend basically they they created a so there was an abandoned Area of the palace and they created like their own little prayer chapel, right? And then they they started serving the poor But they started doing it in conjunction with fulfilling the duties that of married life Yeah, that they were obliged to fulfill Which is really this is what the thing that kept jumping out at me was I was reading this is really a beautiful Kind of juxtaposition of okay, awesome. I can still do What my heart has set on and serving the poor and loving god but also Recognizing that I have a responsibility and obligations that I need to fulfill and how do you do that when you don't want to Yeah, and they were faithful to it where it would have been easier for them to abandon ship You know francis ended up having three children and it could have been easier for her to just be like, you know what? No, I don't want kids like I don't want to do this lorenzo. I don't need you I'm gonna do my own thing while you have your parties Um, but she she did devote her life to her husband and took care of him and those kids Right, right and and in the midst of a lot of pushback Because again, they're nobles. They're socialite, you know, like the socialite's probably not even the right word someone can email us about that but You know they they're nobles And because of their so their devotion alone was weird And for that time for their stature for their place in life for having all this money And you know all this stuff So people were looking at them like, what are you like? Why are you why are you not just partying? You're living the good life. Why are you going off and praying and doing all these different things? So that was some ridicule ridicule because she's also the patron saint of People who are ridiculed for their faith. There's a better way to describe that like persecution or Um, not necessarily persecuted just like made fun of like those who are really suffering for being pious or just fulfilling the faith. Yeah Yeah Because it progressed worse where it wasn't just oh, hey, this is weird. There's also Um mockery mockery And her mother-in-law was not happy about it at all and to the point where when she couldn't get francis and van to stop She goes to her son lorenzo and says make your wife stop This is not normal what she's doing and we're trying to help the poor And they're wanting to sell all their goods and praying and doing all these other holy things Right and lorenzo was like it baffled the mother-in-law. Right lorenzo says i'm not interfering Yeah, and that's the sweet part is that lorenzo stood up for his wife And I really admire that in him because that could have been really hard and that could have caused a lot of toxicity In the relationship, but he was faithful to her. Right. Um, and that's beautiful support and marriage and then so now Around this time she's 16 and she has her first son. What did I say matista matista? I think Some fun names in the head. That is a fun name. I like that name Matista and she was only 16 when she had him around the same time. She ends up losing her mother-in-law So that part of it kind of stops But now she has this like role to fulfill because no one else there This is a large family, right? No one else there. I should I should clarify francis lorenzo their child van the sister The father-in-law and then there's like brothers and there's other family members who are living in the past as well Family, right and they need someone who can take over and kind of be the leader of the family unit So at 16, she's just she she has a child lost her mother-in-law who was kind of a pain for her And now she has to she's like elected so to speak within the family like hey, you're taking over You're you're going to be the leader of the family which is kind of bizarre that it was like female leads Right. I'm wondering why that was the situation. Yeah, very interesting So but she does it and apparently she does it really well and of course, I mean when you are as You know, we're assuming she was super holy I mean it's clear based on the text that she seemed incredibly holy But when you were that christ-centered and focused in your in your life Um, of course everything else kind of falls into place You know, it must have been just like the lead of the home because they were in the military like the men So she was like in charge of domestic life right over the children that kind of thing Okay, that's making more sense. I was like, huh, we so then she has two more children And this is where things kind of take a wild turn. There's a lot of different things that happen There's there's a sickness. I don't think it technically was a plague at first because there's a plague that hits later So there's like a flood and then there's the sickness that kind of goes through and people are really affected throughout Rome and st. Francis or Francis soon to be st. Francis says Hey, no one who is is sick. No one who is homeless. No one who is hurting No one who is wanting is turned away and we've kind of read about this before I I recalled Blessed be your giorgio Where he also had a wealthy family and what happened when there was times of trouble Well, if you lived in a palace the people who were hurting who needed things saw the palace and said Maybe they'll help us right? So there's this kind of this beacon That these people are flocking to And her whole heart was set on no everyone has served no one gets turned away Yeah, and there was a point where she started giving away a lot of the food and wine. There was corn and wine supplies um Just a lot of different things that she was like these these people need to eat and so she started giving it away and Soon the portions one day it was empty And you know the father-in-law he was pretty upset about all of this Like they did not want her to give away all of their stuff. They're like, what are you doing? Um, but one day it had emptied the corn loft. Um, it actually miraculously replenished right and so Through this miracle it actually brought her father-in-law and Lorenzo To their knees and they're like, okay, we get it like now We know what you're talking about this is wild and there was two two miracles specifically But one of them it's interesting because the father-in-law says stop giving our stuff away stop it Like this isn't okay. And so he took away access from her because like you said it was corn It was wine and it was clothing. So he takes away the access maybe keys to the wine cellar I don't really know what that looks like, but he cut her off And she was still giving stuff away So then he says cool. I'm gonna sell everything we have except for exactly what we need So all they had left was what they need needed according to him and that's what she gave away So the father-in-law is right. So the father-in-law is mad mad But as you said the first miracle was the corn the like the Granary or whatever they held the corn was replenished and the second one was a wine flask She had given away the last one of the wine and that was like the last straw for the father-in-law So he's flipping out she goes and prays And they go back to the wine flask and it's filled with even better wine Which obviously, I mean, that's an awesome, you know, we're familiar with that kind of That story. It's really kind of beautiful. But That's what truly brought like Lorenzo. I feel like was throughout this entire thing was already on the edge Of okay, I recognize that my wife is really holy But I guess that that visualizing or that that very visual miracle that tangible miracle He's like I can stand by this right right, of course It's better wine. I mean who couldn't stand by that and then the father-in-law as you said that was his conversion aspect as well Um, which was great for her because now she's like great since you are both kind of on my side now Let's give everything away So and that's pretty much what she did She she then proceeds to give away all of her prized possessions things that she wasn't allowed to give away before So this would be like dresses jewelry that sort of stuff that was like maybe even family heirlooms She was all in right and the family was standing by her so she could give more right right So there was a point where they opened up part of the home, right? That's later on. That's later on. Yeah Yeah, that's later on that's after some more hardship because but she was already helping out other high status women I think I think so getting out of their frivolousness like she wanted to help women who were Uh pious and noble right to recognize that it wasn't all about wealth, right And to also aid the poor right right so she gave that perspective to other ladies. Yes So she's giving away all of her possessions and in the midst of all this civil war kind of breaks out in rome her husband was a Papal troop commander if I if I read that correctly And his brother was also somewhat involved in this war. There was a count. I can't remember his name Who was causing all sorts of issues there was like trojah. Yeah, there's like anti popes There's there's just three people claiming to be pope at the time, right? It's just so confusing chaos utter chaos And at that time, uh lorenzo was wounded and his brothers arrested And essentially what happens is they recognize that this family is really involved And if the the bad guy says if we have her son, they will stop fighting If we have her son, they'll stop fighting. So he says cool. You want your husband to not be executed capture that kid Yeah, give me your son patista. Right patista if I ever have a son. I like that name great, yeah So, uh, because he's air to the air, you know air to not necessarily the throne but obviously the money the wealth everything that's going on So she says not happening She takes patissa by the hand and takes off In the midst of her running away She runs into her. What was it a spiritual director or confessor a spiritual director A spiritual advisor don andrew and you told her she was choosing the wrong way and ordered her to trust god It's just so intense to hear from your spiritual advisor, right? Whoa, and it's it's already like, okay. Things are bad. My husband's wounded. Don't know where he's at They're threatening to execute him. They want to kidnap my son and you want me to give up my child I can almost see her doing like a slow About face like all right. I guess i'm turning her around right well It's beautiful too because like this whole story Is so you can almost you can almost feel her emotion because Everything we've read and studied is like it's so clear where she was at like her struggles and her pains and all this kind of Stuff and now again, right? This is another peak of those mountains this peak of Okay, now you got to sacrifice your son and she's like No, she hit so many walls in life. I think it was like one after the other and she's like, okay But she said yes, that's the wild part. That is the wild part. She said yes to the extent that she starts She turns around Walks her son back Takes it and and by the way as she's bringing her son back the crowds know what's going on And they're trying to take her son so she doesn't give him up They're trying to you know quote-unquote protect this and they don't know any better But they're trying to protect her son So she gives up her son and and where does she go jordan? Where does she go? She goes to a church. She goes to the church weeps And prays and prays begs god right right just utter sorrow sadness and just feeling hopeless I mean she's losing everything that she loved and she's she's having to just continue this continual surrender And she gave it all she did she continued to surrender to god's will And then interestingly enough another miracle that we are Often familiar with Is that she tried to or i'm sorry she gave up her son The soldiers tried to put him on a horse and the horse wouldn't move That's another stubborn animal story right the animal won't move And so finally the guy who's causing problems. I guess just realizes like this is not this is not going to happen And let's yeah, he gave it up right let's her son go And uh, so it's written that she was kneeling in front of the altar when she felt her Her son's arms wrapped around that must have been such a precious Like this is why this movie could be like in cinema. This is so amazing. So crazy So you would think you would think this is almost like so. What was the story? I'm gonna get it wrong the the the guy who was told to sacrifice his son burning bush Abraham Abraham is it? I is that producer? Abraham and Isaac burning bush. She wasn't even paying attention. My gosh, Abraham Moses No, not the burning bush the Abraham had to sacrifice his son. Yeah, you're right. It's not the burning I don't know why the ram is in the bush. That's what's going on. Okay. All right moving forward It was yeah, okay. I apologize. This is not bible trivia y'all. It's the safest ages Which i'm clearly not good at. Don't be confused. Yeah, do not invite me to bible trivia because your team will lose So, um, you would think that okay, so she's surrendered so much. She's done so much Surely surely her life is gonna be easy. Yeah, like this is the end, right? Like y'all think this is the end? Well, it's not We're just gonna start it Things get worse. Yeah so, um During sometime after this we don't really know when but Basically long story short because we're going long here. We need to get to like the meat of this But her her palace is ransacked Her kid is patissa is kidnapped for real this time taken away Which seems to be we're kind of talking before the show divine provenance Because if he wasn't taken to this other area, he probably would have caught the plague and died which killed her other francis's other son So there's there's some there's some blessing in there with him being kidnapped and away from the plague Because he didn't die. Yeah and all her servants were tortured and killed right right the palace was demolished like demolished They tore the heart smashed everything So her husband is still gone at this time still we can assume held hostage I wasn't able to find out for sure But it seems as if he was released at one point So i'm gonna assume that he was still being held hostage because they were threatening to execute him So the husband's still gone. She just lost one of her sons to the plague The other son has just been kidnapped and she's like And her palace is ransacked. She has nothing just like what what am I going to do? So what's she do? She turns her palace into what this is what you were talking about. She turns the palace into a hospital Yeah, so this is the wild part is like she's suffering so much. She has so many family members dying You know tortured in pain. She's suffering and then she's like i'm gonna open up my home for more people Who are poor and sick and suffering and so like part of her home There was like a wing I guess of the home that she she designed a hospital and opened it up to the poor Right, that's just incredible and this was almost like a fulfillment because we should have mentioned Earlier she had wanted to start well, you kind of did mention it She had started this like thing where she's helping these noble women help serve the poor And this is kind of the continuation of that where it's the molding of what soon becomes later on her your religious order But so just to kind of round this out, you know About a year after her son's death. His name was evangelista. So batista and evangelista. There's a theme there I'm kind of digging it Her son or dead son comes to her in a vision and says hey your daughter agnes is gonna die as well and but because of this God sending you a special special grace in you're getting an archangel not just any angel an archangel To be your guardian angel for the rest of your life And she was always able to see him at all times always able to see him And it was written in some other articles that I'd read that she even Talked to him often. She communicated with him often Always just blows my mind and just it makes me really excited to know that a saint could see their angel Right, right. So yeah, so this angel walked with her Yeah, and assisted her and told her stop being so hard on yourself Because she was eating only bread at the time bread and water and wearing a hair shirt Yeah, so she's already suffering and she's like, hey, I'm gonna go ahead and double down on this mortification You know, what about a hair shirt? And her guardian angel says hey knock it off and he says to her in a loving way You should understand by now That the God who made your body and gave it to your soul as a servant Never intended that the spirit should ruin the flesh and return it to him to spoiled and a sense saying You're beautifully and wonderfully made You're designed for a purpose. You're fulfilling the purpose You don't need to do this extra stuff and and as a side note It's one of the reasons that whenever I'm talking like my big my big thing is mortification I always refer back to I must start referring to this now as well But this fadima the children fadima when they have the cord wrapped around them and our lady said hey You're doing too much. I told you do something specific Right. It is a really good example of taking it too far too far taking it too far Which is why spirits directors are so important or guardian angels as a spirit director Yeah, that's a really good point right because sometimes we get in our heads that we have to take on all of these fasts and Mortification but in reality the Lord is not asking that of us and it can be unhealthy right times Yeah, that's beautiful the angel encouraged her in that way So wrapping up the story and then we're going to talk about because we're we're there's just so much to talk about And this is going to be a really long show but wrapping up the story The husband ends up coming back and this was a really hard time for her as well Because she had to like nurse him back to health and he was kind of a broken man I mean if you're a prisoner of war you can imagine Yeah, we kind of know what that's like today How horrific that must have been back then With no modern medicine with no modern amenities I mean, I would imagine that things were just a lot rougher the sickness the dying all these different things Her son ends up marrying a young woman and there's some issues there too Like the the young woman that her son her final child marries Has this like animosity he wants to be or she wants to be a noble person She wanted to party you and kind of have that life like her mother-in-law used to And Francis was not about that right so they didn't get along and and there was a really kind of a beautiful moment That's worth reading where you know because because particularly this is where the shabby dress you mentioned Yeah, she was ridiculed right because the the young woman was like, I don't want my mom wearing a shabby green dress Yeah, it's like we got money She's Yeah, so that was tough for her to not be accepted by her own daughter and then but thankfully at one point the the daughter-in-law Like she converted right she converted she she basically fell on her face and and said like forgive me for my pride something along those lines With Lorenzo support and then later on she ends up founding the lay order of women attached to the Benedictines Which was what was it the obblades of Mary? Thank you And that's still an order today right right and so Lorenzo ends up dying and this was just a beautiful note He his last words to Francis was I feel as if my whole life has been one beautiful dream of purest happiness God has given so much in your love talking about Francis's love, which is a beautiful thing Um and after that it was like cool now. She's set free to I I say cool, you know, obviously it's sad. It was really hard, but it's a beautiful It was like a beautiful release for her to say, okay I fulfilled my mission Now I can fulfill what my heart's desire was which was now she's going full pretty much being religious Right at age 52. Right. She had to wait that long And then she ended up passing away four years later Right, right So she had this beautiful quote that I love And it is and it kind of goes into what we're talking about and now the modern day kind of aspect of it Which we've been hammering this entire time But she said it is most laudable and a married woman to be devout But she must never forget that she is a housewife And sometimes she must leave god at the altar to find him in her housekeeping And that was so powerful for me to read because it's such a perfect example of Oh I want to Go to Adoration I want to go to daily mass I want to do these things like for instance this morning before we record it I would have preferred to go to daily mass, right? However, I knew just with timing. It wasn't possible And so it's like, okay My heart's desire is to go to mass. However, I have an obligation with with this where we're doing now Like this is our job Like I have an obligation to fulfill and how do and how do I then Turn what my heart's desire is and and recognize that god has put me in this position This is what he wants me doing right now. And how do I fulfill that with love as frances did like it's such a powerful thing. So it's this It's this continual surrender to god's will but Walking hand in hand with this beautiful Okay, you what you're obligated to do may not be what you want to do But because you're obligated to it because it is god's will right that walking hand in hand with that surrender You have to Serve and honor god in that role and what does that look like? So anyway, yeah, and that that really is what it is a lot of Motherhood, I feel like too. It's just self-denial, right putting your children before yourself and that sacrificial love of it She has this quote It says a married woman must leave all her devotions when the household demands it similar to what you write And I know so many women who struggle in this way They're like I want to have my morning prayer routine But I have to take care of my kids and that you know I try to sneak out of my room and like have my time with the glory But it's like really quick because my kids wake up and then I have to tend to their needs Well, that is beautiful. Like that is your call and that's so hard That is such a dying to self and that is a yes to god That although is not seen by anyone else you will be rewarded if you persevere And such a great example we have in in frances when she was forced to adjust You know wasn't comfy like she really wanted to be religious at a young age and she had to say no And she not only married Lorenzo. She was an awesome wife And an awesome mom and so every single day She gave herself to those people even though she wanted to just commit herself completely to the lord And how did it work out for her? She had an angel a guardian angel arch angel by her side And she was able to serve and minister at the very end of her life to so many so many poor people So She was able to fulfill the mission that god had for her and more Well, because she said yes in where he wanted her at that moment Which was married to Lorenzo, which was taking care of these kids Which was being the head of the household which was x y z And because she said yes and those things he allowed It's almost like we we've talked about the desires of the heart and the desires of the heart most often when we when we are Rightly ordered or placed on our heart by god, right? So it's like there's this good thing There is a desire that is there that is good when we are rightly ordered that is god saying yes I want you to have this too. However You need to do You know, it's a pathway. You need to do these things first Yeah, there's a couple steps you have to take in between right couple hurdles You have to jump over and not only do you have to do these things you have to recognize that I'm asking you to do these things because this is my will for you to do these things And if you can serve me in these things I will give you what your heart desires and it's not a tit for tat thing It's not like I'm doing this because I'm going to get what I want It's an obedience thing though and a responsibility that we have To serve the word in that way and saying yes to him in those little ways will a lot for us to Serve him in bigger ways because if he can entrust us with the little guesses Yes, and he can entrust us with the bay right and there's this scripture It's first Thessalonians 5 16 through 18 that I thought was kind of relevant here is Rejoice always pray without ceasing give thanks in all circumstances for this is the will of god and christ jesus for you And if there are times in your life where you're seeking something and you weren't able to have it in in your time Then it's an opportunity to rejoice Anyways and to pray and thank god no matter what and that's tough stuff Like in the moment. I feel like a crybaby. I'm like I don't want this god But actually the lord is calling us to be joy filled right and to surrender our desires And that's when we'll be most satisfied too And so that's a beautiful reflection that we have francis gives us such an incredible example a model of Both married and religious and just those paths of holiness to heaven Being so real. I feel like she lived a really authentic life. Right. Um So, yeah, this is this is going to be one of my favorite Stories, I think that we've done so far right now. Yeah, I don't know if it's saying I don't know if it's saying jim a level in the in the sense of how it affected you personally Oh, of course I am I have favorites. Um, but uh in terms of like Just the intensity of the story and the example This is one of the examples that I mean what we study the saints Was part of our job and so we've we've read so many stories and some of them are like, oh, yeah, there's this There's this, you know, this kind of through line of suffering and prayer and this blah, blah, blah But like her life everything about her life is just a beautiful perfect example of And it's so clear. I guess is what I'm getting at And I love that I love her story and I know for a fact This is going to be one that I reflect on a lot and I talk about a lot just because it's so powerful And there's so much more to it I highly suggest going out and reading because we we had to like We had to we had to speed some things along to make the show We've already gone over significantly more than we usually do Um, but with that being said Yeah I really hope that you you guys yeah are able to reflect on her story and just take it a prayer and Reflect on her. Yes, because your yes could be as big as st. Francis of roams To so thank you guys for listening. If you enjoyed our show, please go on and rate us five stars Also, if you want to email us you can email us at saints pod at my avala.com And we would love to hear your suggestions or critiques Anything really so feel free to reach out and if you're listening to this on audio only what we're about to do And i'm just giving you this little hint so you can tune in next time One of the things we're going to start doing is interacting with the audience as much as we can live And when we kind of broadcast these So if you're listening you missed out that's okay Hopefully you can tune in on the next live either on spiritual direction youtube or on spiritualdirection.com facebook page Where we have this fancy new equipment where we can throw your comments up on the screen and actually interact So we're going to do that in a second, but those are for the live viewers for everyone else st. Francis of roam pray for us pray for us Bye All right, folks who are still staying on hopefully i gave you enough time to edit that We are live and we're looking at your comments I want to look at the comments So, uh, you want to throw john kennedy's comment on screen i can John kennedy my favorite man in japan Yeah, john kennedy says i will accept any bags of money you are giving out john kennedy I wish i had bags of money. I wish i had so much money just like st. Francis of roam I would give it all to you right basically john You'd be there if all of my john if you have any bags of money I'd actually really appreciate some right now john is one of those people who has devoted a lot of his life to service to the poor and giving to others So john is a great. Thank you john for being a member of a pasley v. A first time i met john He walked into the door at the house the Bethlehem house at the shrine and i said great and powerful john kennedy And i just i think i i think i hugged him He's like someone who can make light of such difficult hardships right and he has so much joy and humor I mean it's a lot of pain and suffering like the guy's been there a lot We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna have to write his saint story at some point probably so so we have some saint suggestions Oh, uh, yeah, you can throw it up American saints holy people like father Demetrius I'm not i can't pronounce that Yeah, i can't pronounce that i should probably sit higher Apostles who oh wow. Yeah, you know pierre to saunt. I don't know that sounds familiar That sounds familiar. Okay, so we'll add those to the list as we always do and if anyone has any other suggestions of What uh saints you'd like to see us do a show on please send them to us. We do take your suggestions Yeah, we seriously do and we're yeah, we are constantly constantly looking for more Michael also said Michael's great because Michael every time we've done a live Um, he's been on there commenting. I was talking to him the other day He says there is such a wealth of holy men and women who lived in american Contacts. Oh, excuse me. I'm so sorry guys allergies that uh, Catholics on the north american continent don't know too well greed But the knowledge of which would help evangelize america michael I like where your brain is that Who else do we have created vice one did any of saint francis's children enter the religious life? No, unfortunately as we kind of relate in the story. She lost two of her three children Yeah, evangelista and agnes died and so just patissa got married, so no I wonder what he named his kid That's a good question. Huh, okay. Who's next? The replenish of the emoji corn loft and the refilling of the emoji wine Flask are awesome. You know what those are the best emojis you could have ever chosen for this episode And I just want to thank you for putting emojis out there. See we posted that props to you Yeah, that's that's a good use of emojis All right, because i'm an emoji hater Oh Prayer hands see you go. We got to have more. I appreciate no. We appreciate you watching. Thank you for praying And john again after making the sacrifice of getting married. She had so much suffering. Yeah, you know, that's So true. I think people I know like speaking to my my situation just specifically I think people get married and they're like, oh everything's gonna be easy. It's like, no That's that's a whole different you're entering into a whole different area of of martyrdom in a sense of like a white martyr sacrifice. Yeah, you're sacrificing daily sacrifice And look is that one last comment? Love this if you could share and teach us each time about one of the saints I'll definitely be watching. Well, judy and jim. That is exactly what the show is that's what we do every single show Is exactly what you requested. So we'd love to have you watch more and for anyone else watching We we won't be able to do this every time but uh, it was a lot of fun and we'd like to do it more Who's trying to change it up a little bit? He's trying to change up my right So, uh, please share this uh around as much as possible And I guess that's it. Don't forget to go out to avaladashinstitute.com or avaladashinstitute.org Whatever you want classes. I think both you'll find it. You'll find it and with that y'all have a great day Bye