 So, let us get back to our this course before we go further apparently there are some items of discussion some which pertain to our four week workshop like how will we tell people about this workshop, how will get their engagement etcetera, two of you had some brief discussion with me and we will elaborate that further the other Sahana you are mentioning some aspects about some other things on which you said we should have some brief discussion here yes. So, in fact let us let us get to the retail activity list because that will exemplify everything that we want. So, this is for the main workshop we will talk about the activity list for the workshop and then subsequently we will talk about before workshop and after workshop that will conclude the entire thing that we need to do. So, the workshop itself the two week engagement that we are talking about we will have lectures delivered by IIT and we will use ISRO, VSAR or webcast whatever works primarily we are interested in using ISRO, VSAR because it provides us with the two way communication. The lectures typically will be held in the mornings as the normal schedule the coordinating remote centers which are your centers will conduct tutorials and labs ok. The key point for consideration right now our discussion is what exactly you will have to do there ok. So, let us expand on the tutorial and lab business whatever by the way the tutorials will be set up from here the labs also will be set up from here and we will be sending you the tutorials and labs and the assignments etcetera which are to be carried out. But there are two components one a short component and the other is a larger component. The short component is also to teach the teachers how to set up the environment at their place. The second is how to use this setup to teach computer programming. Now what I suggest is that you would have set up the environment earlier there for them to use this that should be exactly the same environment which they will be supposedly using at their colleges while teaching this course. So, we will start immediately with the computer programming itself that means the first week and a half would be actual computer programming course covering the entire syllabus that we talked about including questions answers tutorials etcetera. And the last four days of the course would be conducting labs of the kind that you underwent here namely set ups and so on. There is one danger here if you do it in the last few days do you think that the teachers who attend could still have some questions in their minds and some confusion therefore when they go back they may not be completely adequately understanding everything. In which case the other way to do it is that in the first two days we have labs which will tell them about this installation and other things. And then in the subsequent days we have the course and then on the last day or last two days again we have a revision of what they have and just like we collected a feedback like what kind of environment you have etcetera etcetera you should do the same thing from those teachers. And that feedback session and all we will conduct through the lectures here in the in the morning and in the afternoon we will have prepared a detailed format which you can get it filled up from them. In fact you can get up get the filled up format at the time of registration of the candidates itself. So, essentially when we talk about the labs and tutorials there are two kind of things the computer programming portion itself and the second portion is computing environment. Now this what we can do is even during the lab hours we can actually have the presentations that you saw by our TAs for the lab setup and so on. We could arrange for those presentations in the form of lecture from here and then only for the lab you can take them. Ideally if you have a situation where you can get the classroom come lab kind of environment even you see we even do not have it. So, ideally what happens a classroom come lab environment you will be actually sitting with a computer in front of it. Whenever we are not discussing anything related to computing environment you can just keep on taking notes attending normal lectures. But whenever we are talking about installation and such thing you simply go to your machine and start executing them. Whether that will be possible at every place I doubt because what you will have probably is a connection from your VESAT to a overhead projector in a classroom. So, we presume that the environment for lectures will be like this. Now here also we toyed with the idea that Mrs. Vijal Lakshmi and Dr. Subhadra could explain and demonstrate here and then you go to the lab. But they said we could do it there itself by setting up a facility for demonstration. What we could do is that for every installation lab that you had now you have some experience doing that and we have some experience in making presentation. So, what we will do is the presentation part we will consolidate and we will keep those presentations ready and we will deliver those presentations of installment and installation and other things as a presentation lecture. So, that lecture can be even in the afternoon that lecture can be attended to by participants in a regular classroom and then you can take them to the lab where they will follow those instructions and do those. Do you think this will be more sensible? So, computing environment and installation even here we will say lab presentations by IIT. As to what these presentations will be we will further edit them, but you will have a glimpse of it when you get those DVDs. Now this lab presentation come demo. So, during the demo we can capture the screens which people will see and additionally we will have a printed material with them also. So, demo means they will just go through where somebody else is setting up somebody else is giving instructions etcetera. So, instead of you giving the same instructions there they will do that. But how can they get instructions from IIT unless you have a connectivity there. Now this is that is one possibility you can train your people, but this is an excellent idea. We have the recorded sessions. So, suppose we decide to use the same recorded sessions at each place yes yes correct correct correct. So, if you want we can do one more thing we can do further refinement of those lectures and attach supplementary 10 minute or 15 minute explanation for the questions that are being raised. And we will make that presentation and this together and we will make it available on CD to everybody because that is already available. So, we will make it available to everyone ahead and in the laboratory, but you should have a projector in the lab to do that that will be much easier. So, use the projector and the DVD here to directly play that and simultaneously randhalla and since you will have control you can stop it wherever you want etcetera. So, that will be a better idea ok. So, I will say lab presentations by IIT, but I will also mention pre recorded. I wish I had known this then we would have set up a better mechanism for recording it because right now the questions we are not getting recorded ok. So, what I will do is I will ask my TAs whether they remember those questions and at least put them in text form or something. This extra 10 minute thing that clipping that I will like to add will relate to those questions being answered or questions being recorded that is all ok. So, there are two sets of CDs that you will get one within a week we will post it. So, within 10 days you should get it will be the first rough cut recording of everything that has happened lectures come labs. The second set you will get with a edited CDs for the pre recorded portion is that ok before the fine anything else that you feel that remote centers should do to tell us more. So, that we take cognizance of that while arranging lectures or anything. Like all people will be working at the same time. So, can we have week by week update of everyone doing what they what they are doing so that everyone will be doing the same thing in that week. So, they will be having target like next week we have to give assignment. So, everyone will be completing that by that week like. Oh yes yes the whole two week program you are talking about the workshop now between now and preparation that is an excellent idea this is by and large clear this is what will have to be done during the workshop ok. The workshop schedule itself we will arrive at simultaneously and that is the schedule which will impose on everybody ok. But we are agreeing to these crucial dates 6th of July to 22nd of July it may be 21st whatever something like that basically it will start from a Monday and end on a Sunday. But this will means there is no first year teaching that will happen during this time. So, the first year teacher should be able to attend this and the coordinator should be free to do this. So, this is a small this will be the major part this computer programming part no these tutorials we will be setting up here based on the portion that we arrive at and there also we will have a coordination. So, that we will discuss that it is how we will coordinate in the pre workshop activities. At a time of installation and many more things are there. Come again you are not confident of setting up Linux environment and other things on your own. Followed actually. Ok. They just said that you just copy from this PDF and then paste it there. So, many problems are there why they are doing like that. I will make some suggestion please examine that. First of all all the TAs who made the presentation some are M. Tech students some are people nobody taught them anything absolutely nobody. They have discovered these things by experimenting. I would strongly suggest that do that experimentation even before asking questions you will of course make mistakes. One advantage of making mistake while installing Linux or Moodle or anything on a machine is that the machine does not shout back at you. It will at most say it does not work. So, what I am saying is assume that no such session has been conducted for you. That is exactly what Ashutosh or Avnish or anybody who told you those things. That is exactly what happened with them. Nobody conducted any session for them. They are given a machine they are given the Linux this thing they were told this is the resource. For you the resource will be silly. Ok. And they figured out everything on their own. Of course they made mistakes. That is what learning is all about. So, my suggestion is those of you who because of the time constraints would not easily get to understand each and everything figure that out first. Of course we will provide help. But I would suggest this let the help be provided after you have tried it out. Will you mean you will learn a lot more that way. Of course it means spending some time it will not be too much time and yeah. In the same context actually I have gone through all this because I used to be the lab admin when I was studying. Correct. And what these students have done I have also done all that. Correct. I think it would be better if they can provide a kind of troubleshooting guide for everything you can discuss and that is how we learn. But I notice one significant difference between my life now and when I was a student. But I have more time for doing these things that time. Right now teachers are so much burdened with other kind of work that spending so much of time troubleshooting is not going to be easily available for everyone. Yes. So, if these years can write a kind of troubleshooting guide. The answer to first question yes that teachers do not have time to spend too much time to spend answer to second question is no I will tell you why unless we do it look at it this way I admit that all of you are busy do you think people here are not busy believe me I am sleeping two hours three hours a day every day and yet I am going to do all this myself and I am going to get the same learning that you people did nothing more probably less and I am going to do the goddamn thing and I am telling you I am starting tomorrow morning sometime and I am ending it thereafter tomorrow before the sun rises and by that time I should be able to answer all your doubts are not done these things for 25 years but I will do them because there is no shortcut to this and I would like you to emphasize it to the teachers also because they will also have the same problem but multiply it further please do not forget you come from relatively better institutions. Let me mention this what Sehan is saying is that Linux user groups or lugs in fact they have branches in many places and actually you will find some local luck people enthusiastic to sort of help you out also the whole and she mentioned that Google search will tell you a whole lot of things the problem Sehan with that is the information overloads when you search you will get too many things and then sometimes you have a small question and you spend more time in searching for the answer then figuring out the answer that's right but then you have to also regard for the fact that they truly have less time so make a judicious choice but I will tell you nothing better than trying it out I will 80% of our mtech students come with a windows background and we just make them swag in this fashion and they become Linux experts that's a fact of life it's a fear which is the key coming against us nothing else ok. I agree with you because I have gone through that yes but when I try to relate things I just can't because if somebody has see sir I have been trying to set up a lab in a similar fashion in my institute when I have actually done it myself quite a few times before and there are so many other practical administrative problems to get through that it does take more time. No I agree all that I agree but for this particular case that we are talking about each one requires just one machine no administrative setup is required and you don't tell me that as teachers you can't have access to one machine to do this experiment. We require to do the whole lab setup for the workshop here we are talking about setting up full. There are two distinct things one is the lab setup the other is getting very confident of being able to do it yourself I am answering only the second part the first part by the way we require a whole lot of cooperation from principals and others and so on so let me come back to that activity list which also includes my personally talking to the twenty principals and management and so on and telling them to provide whatever support so that that will come to so yes and no by the way I am not suggesting that we will not get these FAQs done we will get it done that is why I said we will get some additional components done by these people. But believe me there is a merit in you are attempting to do something and you have to tell the same thing to those people as well ultimately why can't we compile these FAQs as part of this exercise and put them on the final web which all these teachers will also be able to do. I have one question. Yeah. How many inputs on the presentation can I get back this feedback to you? Of course and we will be very glad to incorporate that that's the whole thing about collaboration not only you I will say every one of you if you have any more observations on these practical things if any more questions which were unanswered. In fact before it is too late many of you will be travelling back so you have a long journey I have found journeys to be an excellent time past time to recall and write things, jot things down type course and even if there are no answers just the questions which have come to your mind. Because those questions that is what we will call a growing list of FAQs let me get back to that thing let us go in that order. So let's talk about pre-workshop activities. The pre-workshop activities start from tomorrow which is 26409 to this is the duration in which we do the pre-workshop activities majority of the work will have to be done here but there will be non-trivial work that all of you will have to do. So let's go in sequence some of these activities will be parallel some of these will be sequential. So first of all let's talk about pre-workshop that means we are arranging the workshop for teachers 1000 is what we have in mind but we do not know who are these teachers where they will come, why they will come and how they will even know and how they will decide to come. So do you agree that this is an important activity informing and encouraging prospective participant teachers without that the whole dream falls down. Now ordinarily when we hold IST workshops typically IST puts it up on their schedule and additionally the coordinating institution will print some kind of brochures and circulate it to everybody. So here we propose to do exactly the same thing get it inserted in IST schedule. This will probably happen during the month of May after some meetings so that means their June later, news later if it comes early part of the month or their May and June news later if it comes in the later part of the month will contain the details of this. That is the IST formal recognition. The second thing is brochures. The brochures will be prepared at IIT and I had some discussion as I said with two of your colleagues so what we are currently thinking of and I would like your suggestions if any that we will print a detailed brochure which will have the list of all participating RCs. So we will say the brochure will say first of all organization IIT plus all participating RCs. So there will be a list of RCs. Then it will describe the methodology it will describe what we have done it will say that RCs have participated in this one week workshop preparatory workshop etcetera etcetera and it will ask for registration. The registration will have to be done by email. The registration will have to be done at IIT site. This registration will not only put the name of the person and the other details but also the name of the RC to which at which the participant would like to attend that course. It will hopefully be the nearest thing. We will ask them to put a pin code. So the pin code difference is too wide. We will be able to take corrective action. One good suggestion was that there are unfortunately teachers in the country who may just want to get that IST stamp rather than being interested in doing this work. There have been some IST workshops in the past where the attendance and participation has been very limited and people are comfortable completing that one week workshop taking the certificate and going back. You will all agree that we generally do not want such type of people. Even if we get such type of people we want to be able to enthuse them to do all the work. So the brochure itself will contain a plain description that all this will have to be done including open sourcing of the contents. I will give you a typical example where I am an object. I am a teacher in some college in Nasik and I am interested in doing this but I also have a roaring tuition business. Now if I contribute questions and answers which you are going to show the whole world then I am not interested in giving my questions and answers to that activity. The caveat is if you don't you will not get that certificate. Even if you physically attend two weeks program even if you get everything that you want to know but you go back and don't do this homework and don't submit and if it is not certified by the HRC coordinator there is no certificate. We will make that also very clear. So there is some caveat and some stake. The caveat is of course you get a recognition as an IST workshop and more importantly you will benefit from the collaborative attempt in which your own name as a contributor will be listed. Now if people think that is good enough that is okay if not then this is the mechanism. So you agree that this we should insist on? So consequently what we propose to do is for each remote center we will not announce that everybody who is applying is registered. So registration at central site will consist of two steps. One is application and the second is selection. Normally we will say first come first serve but we will stipulate certain basic minimum criteria. For example somebody which a college appoints on 1st of July as a teacher. He has never thought he or she has never thought computer programming. I don't think we are interested in getting these people here unless there are not enough people which I doubt. So consequently there has to be some selection criteria which we will have to define and that criteria we will have to adhere to. Effectively then we shall have the list of applications which is much larger than the number of people that we have and we should have some wait list. And once we make it clear even in our brochure that the selection will be decided jointly by IIT Bombay and the coordinator of the concerned RC. Then I think there will be some control or let's say some I don't know how to describe it. What is the better word for this? Not exactly control but they know that there is some monitoring. It is not a blind admission to the program. I hope that will help. The brochures as I said will be printed ahead of time. They will be sent by us to all colleges. I also want to use this opportunity to send the brochures to colleges which are very remote even from our remote centers. Why? Because I want them to know about this program. So if we have to conduct a repeat of this program then there could be 50 remote centers because this is a pilot and I can easily tell MHRD that the pilot was an experiment wherein we learned all these things and we want to do a refined program for a larger number of people. So if that happens then if you are interested you can also participate in the second offering or some other people. We can take care of it. So this is a sort of advertisement or knowledge spread. But more importantly we will also send about 100 brochures to each of your institutions which you could additionally send even if the same college receives some more it doesn't matter. But you will have some personal contacts. You will know somebody in the college who will know somebody else etc. But you will agree that unless we can assemble a good total of 300, 400 teachers in this pilot we will not be able to conclude anything concretely that is effectiveness etc. So that is why the marketing of this workshop if you call it it will be done jointly. Major chunk will be done by IIT. IIT will be sending a later and this thing to all. IST itself will put that in their schedule. And additionally what should be the timeline for doing all these? If 6th July is the date when the workshop starts is it okay to say that by 10th of June we should have the first list of applicants and by say 15th of June or something we should finalize the list so that people have a clear 15, 21 days to make arrangements and something like that. Is that a fair this in time to? So we will say application last date could be 10th June and selection last date could be 15th June. I see. So what is the time when they will not be on vacation? That is April. 29th of April. Vacation will start okay. In fact that could be true in most places. Vacation will start would you all agree that vacation will start around 20th of May 4th May itself. So what is the best time in which we can reach the faculty members? It looks to me that the best time is like yesterday evening sort of crazy solution to this because in the brochure that we are going to print we are not going to give the detailed syllabus or detailed workshop schedule or anything. It is information essentially about the scheme and based on what we have decided I could describe the workshop contents in terms of bullets in which case it should be possible for me to get these brochures done immediately do you think that will help? There is a brochure on the basis of that only the colleagues going to respond. Correct, correct. No, no, it will not work. No, no, no institution. Kalpana what is the minimum time to prepare that brochure? There is a serious legal problem there. IST has approved this workshop but they have not yet approved the larger workshop. If you get the brochures are there. Okay, so what you are saying is the brochures reach everybody by 10th of May. Yes sir, 14th of May. That will do. That is some set of people and others can be informed after the end of May. So what we can do is we can keep these dates as alright but we will say this is the last dates. They are not the first dates but we will have to set up the registration site and everything by 15th of May. So we will say the registration at central site this has to become operational by 15th of May. Okay, and brochures to be dispatched or to reach you by 10th of May. Is that the correct position? But then I will need to know your HODs and principles, phone numbers, names, etc., etc. as quickly as possible. I would like to start this campaign from day after tomorrow morning itself and later on you can buttress it by giving additional names like alternates. In the brochures we should get permission from IST because that word IST sponsored is also very much important for the colleagues for the teachers who are coming for the program. So that word itself creates a big impact actually. IST sponsored or IST approved that word itself creates a big impact actually because as far as the promotions and everything is concerned still that two short term STDP 15 days each you know everybody requires. This course is like today sponsored by IST and the second term can put the logo of the IST and we can make it like this. It is likely to be approved as an IST sponsored workshop for which initial things have been done and the approval will be notified much before the registration closes. So people can apply for it and we will even put a box there. Will you be interested in attending even if it is not approved by IST? So they said no, fine. It becomes negative thing. You see practical psychology is coming through. They know their friends better. Okay, okay, that's okay. Alright, yeah. In fact the IST certification will be mentioned only almost like a footnote at the end for those whom the IST name is important they will read that and understand it. For those who want to participate in the dream they will understand the previous description. Yes. Right, yes. Yes, yes. We are not revisiting our strategy. We will read to this. For example, let me tell you this workshop itself because of the delays, I had exactly 5 people registering. Then I picked up a phone and started talking to the directors of the institutions and then suddenly the registration improved and I can do that. I will have to do that to 300 institutions. That's okay. You also should do that. So the agreement was there. I mean brochure is merely a mechanism. Not two days before that. It self should carry some ladies. I would agree with you. In fact this two phase thing permits us to identify who are coming primarily for learning and who are coming primarily for IST. Although I would think both will influence equally the entusias of admission. Yes. One take from this mukta is that all these business of reaching people out for the things conducted in vacation should be done during the semester. So January to April for anything that happens in May, June, July that year and July to October or in fact April to October for anything that happens in December that year. That's the first learning from this. Most of the IST workshops I believe are run during vacations only. So people who want that IST workshop they will come in vacation. Summer and winter. Exactly because the teachers are required there. That's okay. That is why one learning I had from our discussion was that I don't want just the names and telephone numbers of your principles. If it is a private management I want the names and numbers of your managing trustee or something. If it is a government institution I'll be contacting directorate of technical education of each state and the vice chancellor of the university. So vice chancellor who are no way connected with this workshop will also are going to get our brochures and a personal letter from me saying you tell your affiliated colleges that this may benefit them. Field trip. There is one concept called field trip. That is for IST. If the course is IST approved. So IST always ask for field trip. But we did not arrange a field trip for this course. One week course. If it is two week course how will those field trips are arranged on this Saturday? We'll get an exemption for the field trip given the nature of the course. I mean I don't know field trip for either even thermodynamics or computer programming to the lab. So you walk to the lab. Mukta remembers to discuss this with Hariran again. That is not correct. Because if you are going to have an IST logo the approval of IST for whatever we want to do in the rule book it doesn't say field trip. Then we have to follow the rules. But the rules don't say the field trip because he gave us a rule book. It's not IST funded. Exactly. Of course not. Because if it is IST funded I cannot give you the liberty of collecting additional costs from participants. And we shall have a ten minute discussion on the funding pattern also which is equally important. So in a nutshell the pre-workshop activities have to start like immediately and we should send this and we can make it a two stage process by saying that this is likely to be IST approved for which preliminary discussions have been held and the confirmation of IST is expected. It will be available much before fifteenth or whatever and we can put it on the website. That will just notify this. So that is all. Yes, yes. IST approved workshop was conducted and the permission to conduct the larger workshop as IST sponsored workshop not sponsored, you call it what? Approved. Oh, so then we have said IST sponsored, is it? In this thing. Certificate. No, we have just said IST workshop. In the certificate that I am distributing I have said. If it is sponsored then whatever fund you know mentioned Mr. Harrier in that day so those funds would be given by IST. That is called sponsored. IST has made it very clear that they don't have the kind of funds that I am talking about. See I will tell you I had thought of although we are digressing but we will be discussing that I have thought of a funding requirement of 2 lakh rupees for a two week engagement including the elements of costs for space rental and other things for the institution, co-ordination area, etcetera, etcetera and some minimal cost for tea, food and other things for teachers. This 2 lakh rupees of estimate did not include their stay and travel costs. That was my estimate. Now that is all topsy-turvy as per the IST. IST says all of that to be included. That I find it crazy actually although I used a more polite word when discussing with Mr. Harrier and he also admitted if you agree if you recall that these are all old rates. The moment you get IST sponsorship even if they give funds I don't think we want those funds. We want freedom and freedom comes if we can arrange our own funds. That there is a small technical trouble. IST is not giving funds but IST gives funds from there when AICT gives them. AICT gives them from there when MSRD gives them. So ultimately the source of any IST funding is MSRD. MSRD is funding this as well wherefrom I am going to give you money. Fartex pockets are rich but not that rich. I can't give you that kind of money. So obviously it will be from the MSRD funding but I am an approval from MSRD for the conduct of these workshops so much money at so many centres has been earmarked. That budget is 2 lakh rupees. Now what I am saying is if I tell IST look I am not seeking your funding so it is not IST sponsored it is IST approved. You approve this workshop. That gives us a leeway to charge fees to people which we will not call fees but charges for actual accommodation and food and travel. So you travel and you make this. Now the issue is how many people will get travel grants from their own colleges to travel. So suppose we put it as the charges this needs to be ratified quickly because we will have to put that in the brochure. We will have to say that this is likely to be IST approved course you remember the word and that the course fees would be a two tier fees. The course fees for people who do not require any travel or this thing support is only you know the workshop conduct and put a nominal fees it should not be 0 rupees. In fact it is from that money we will pay IST that 125 rupees we will pay IIT Bombay whatever that 125 rupees or something like that whatever. And then we will say IST approves a workshop provided for every candidate who attends the workshop IST gets 125 rupees paid by the organizers. No no no they get you can give it from the same money if you want but they have to be paid. There are two different account aids granting account aid is different collecting account aid is different unless they collect the certificate is not valid. Yeah sorry. The course will be conducting during the vacation there are three issues. One is the participants may not be willing to lose their vacation and one more if the college is not giving them any financial aid they are ready to come also. Correct that is agreed but that is what the conditions are but as she said some time ago most of you had no clue that this is an IST approved workshop still you came you found out only after coming here. But still now this is here we are not losing any vacation we are not losing the vacation. No no no that is incidental people across the country who want IST certification are well versed with the fact that IST workshops will be conducted in summer and winter. So this is misplaced if they want IST certification they will have to attend during this thing on. See you cannot get credit towards your increments in promotion and still enjoy vacation both things are not possible. Here I want to say if we are not getting any approval from the IST it may be difficult for people. This will not happen we will cancel the course if we do not get IST approval it is very simple because a major contribution to the enthusiasm of teachers will vanish as he correctly points out but believe me it is not unlikely to happen you heard Mr. Hariyaran that day you heard Mr. Hariyaran that day giving talk the IST where chief coordinator so what Yeah I mean there is no question about it. Simply said it is performed and some amount related to the policy today. That is all. That is all. So there is no problem. I am not worried about getting permission. I am more worried about the enthusiasm of participating college management to support the travel of their teachers and to support the stay of their teachers. In Bombay many of the colleges have been making minimum 400 people in tech, 400 students in tech and in many of the colleges again double in tech is there. 250 to 500 students are there so nearly 10 to 20, 30 people are involved in that. So at least minimum 10% or 5 faculty are there for this course even if you don't consider any other. Unfortunately Bombay is not the representative of the country. Bombay city is not representative of the country. No general it is not true. For example suppose my institute let's take Maharashtra and the centre is in Solapur. I have to physically go all to Solapur. There is no choice. That is all the point. The point is not to train teachers who are staying only at concentrated locality. The point is I must reach the Naseek and Nandair and other people also. So in the first lot I may not be able to do that. However what I will do is from this experiment we will find out what are the costs of supporting and then tell MHRD please give me more money to run the main program to do this. For example consider about 30 participants coming to your place an additional grant of about let's say 3000 rupees per participant additional grant. Do you think you will be able to manage the travel assuming they are not traveling from far away places because they will go to the nearest centre only. In general IST course a person can come from anywhere in India. In this particular thing we want him either the neighbouring or just Niharma. Do you think you can squeeze in by some very careful planning of expenditure etc. you can squeeze in the travel support. You can say limited travel support up to this much. So limited travel support up to 1000 rupees against actual travel expenditure will be supported and in 2000 rupees if you can additionally have this. Actually if you look at it this way if you remove the complete cost of everything as 2 lakh rupees for 2 weeks is much more. So I assume that if we rationalize all of our costs and I would like you to do this thinking again that page have you circulated to them the page which IST rule book that you have ok please go back this is urgent so please go back consult your colleagues also tell me the following said 2 lakh rupees if given how much of extra money you have to take care of the participants stay and food in that 2 lakh rupees. Forget the IST norms actual things that you have to cost assume that. Imagine that you are able to take care of the costs of the course including coordinators of the whole narrative etc etc in 1 lakh rupees. Then you have 1 lakh rupees extra which can take care of these participants. Imagine now I put another 1 lakh rupees in your kitty. So I arrange to give you 3 lakhs and not 2 lakhs. Now in 3 lakhs can we take care of all the participants including their stay etc expenditure you can average it out some people may not stay some people may be local they may come from outside. But those who come from outside you give them some decent accommodation and food nothing 5 star. If you can manage it in 3 lakhs and if we conclude that then right now today I am telling you I will give you 3 lakh rupees for this pilot no issues. Here I get that 1 lakh rupees per centre extra I have already done the background processing there are 12 centres or something and if she runs 3 centres we will have at most 15 centres so I need additional 15 lakhs so Kalpana oh Kalpana is not there she is the one who finds they will have to find 15 lakhs more from this budget. But we are approving that right now instead of 2 lakhs we will make it 3 lakh rupees per centre. Now do you think 3 lakh rupees is a reasonable amount to conduct this workshop including everything your local course honourarium to party because you will also need help of some other colleague so obviously you will have to arrange for some honourarium to that colleague and the students stay and everything. Assuming of course that 50% people may come from outside 50% correct why should he come we will not admit him correct I agree I agree with you in fact I would suggest that even if local people are there you do not have to give them TA but you please arrange accommodation and food there at your place because residential is something else we agree with that so general agreement for the budget the budget is 3 lakh rupees for each centre. I do not know how I will sustain the larger one 20 crore budget will go to 20 crores but I would like to know why he is not going to Coimbatore he is on vacation somewhere there ok so we will take the pinch of salt but I will be terribly surprised if there is a large migration across the country of teachers just because of this is it no but then at that time you never have in the past an IST course being run at 20 places simultaneously this is the first time it is happening yes so anyway we will all learn from this but I am very glad we had this this discussion