 Hair up a little bit. Hey everybody, Charles Eisenstein here with my dear friend Becca Young Allen. Rebecca, I always call her Becca. She's the Executive Director of the Andes Amazon Conservancy, which is doing incredible work in, well, the Andes Amazon Transition Zone, where there are crucial wildlife corridors that are being threatened. But maybe I should let Becca talk about that. But I guess I'll just say that this project has really inspired me because it works on so many levels at the same time, ecological, cultural, dare I say it, spiritual. And it's the, you know, none of these, we tend to silo these things off in separate domains. But ultimately they cannot be separated, just like the Andes and the Amazon cannot be separated. Just like if two organs of your body were separated, they would each begin to wither. And so we have that, you know, in our society that when we divide up life into separate realms, each begins to wither. So anyway, Becca, do you want to have eyes so far given a accurate description of the work of the AAC? You made a beautiful start there, Charles. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for taking the time with me today to be able to tell this story a little bit. I'm really grateful. You know, actually, before I even get into the big picture of what we're doing here, I think I want to start with a story of one of our collaborators, Tsunkki Kahake, who is a shwar gentleman who has been a part of this program from the beginning. It's been about five years. He's one of the early collaborators. And Tsunkki remembers he's, he's a, I don't know, he's in his 60s now. And when he was a young man, he was living in the rainforest at the base of the Andes Mountains in the traditional ways. This was before development had moved in. And he tells the story of what it felt like to the people when the first road was cut through the land. Just that first cut. And they felt it physically in their bodies as if their own body had been cut. He said it was like a knife through our hearts when the land was severed in this first way. And that's just a very small example of the ways that the being body of the Amazon basin has been cut many, many times. And so I think I want to now like roll back a hundred million years because the Amazon forest is purported to be about a hundred million years old, which I can't even conceive of as a northerner where, you know, all of our landscapes were scraped down to bear rock 10,000 years ago, the last glacial cycle, you know, for life to be able to be in a state of constant generation for a hundred million years is extraordinary. It's just extraordinary. And so over those hundred million years, there have been long scale cycles when the glaciers move into the Andes Mountains. Over thousands of years, whole forest communities from the tiniest being to the largest creature slowly move and migrate down into the foothills and out into the Amazon basin where it's warmer and there's no ice. And then again, when the ice recedes 15 to 50,000 years later, over thousands of years, those same forested communities will then migrate towards the foothills of the Andes where the cooler microclimates exist at the base of the Andes. So it's this long scale cycle of flow between the Andes Mountains and the Amazon basin that has been a part of what is generating the astonishing biodiversity of this region. It's so beyond human comprehension. They did studies and found 100,000 species of insects in one hectare. It's so beyond this mind's understanding. And so what the highest level work that the Andes Amazon Conservancy is doing is to maintain pathways for connection that will allow these ancient evolutionary processes to continue as best they can within the context of everything that is happening on the planet. Mm-hmm. Right. And so what you've told me, excuse me, what you've told me before is how there's like a 2,000 mile long development corridor that's almost severed as the Andes and Amazon, but there's this couple hundred mile intact connector. And that's where the focus of your work is. That's correct. Yeah. So, and really, you know, the story I told about Sunki in the beginning was the beginning of that severing. About 60 years ago, the development began because it's just beautiful areas. So, of course, the humans want to be there. And so if you look at a large satellite map of South America, you can see this giant wall of development that goes from the Caribbean all the way down to the northern part of Peru. And it is very, very wide in some places and narrower in other places. But there is one place in Ecuador that is still open. I wish it was 100 miles. It's not 100 miles wide. It's really more like 10 miles wide. So it's very small. Wow. This is the strategic, very, it's like the acupuncture point that we're targeting for our work. And it's this location that is so key to keep open and maintain that connectivity. And so in that area, you know, there's the capitalistic economy has come in. And, you know, it's really devastated so much of the land and the culture already. So there's other strategies that are in play there. We have two primary strategies that we're using. One of them doesn't sound very sexy, but it's conservation land use planning and this allowing the communities. And I just want to stay first off that this entire program is being run by currently 75 indigenous communities that live in Ecuador, across four indigenous nations. So these are the quichua, the sapata, the shiviar, and the shuar nations. These are the nations that we're working with currently. And it's their program. It's their project. It's their land. And they are really guiding this. We're just providing the ideas and the tools. And then everything is being led and facilitated by the indigenous people. So conservation land use planning is preparing for a hundred years of population growth because we can't just plan for now. We have to plan for the future because it's going to, you know, populations are going to grow and expand. And so, you know, a lot of times in I'll call it 20th century conservation, we think about protecting an area and I'm using air quotes around that protecting because what that means is we wall it off, kick out all the people, and then say, there we go, the land is safe, even though it might be surrounded by development on all sides. But we know, based on connectivity principles, like if that land isn't connected to other land, it will wither just like as you say, like if one organ is disconnected from another organ in the body, both will wither. And that's also kind of conceptually walling human beings off from nature and saying, but we we grant the assumption that human beings are a curse on this planet. But, you know, that's not true of the schwar and the others that you named. They were living there for, you know, thousands and thousands of years, and we're a blessing to the land. And so, so yeah, that's that's some so now we're not but you're doing 21st century conservation. It's correct. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not about walling it off, kicking the people out. No, the people are essential, because they are the stewards of the land. And, you know, you know, there's there's, I was read a really interesting science article a while back talking about that the Amazon rainforest is essentially a giant garden that has been propagated by human beings over thousands and thousands of years that so many of the species that are there are there as a result of this reciprocal relationship between the humans and the land over time. So no, we the humans are are we have a we have our our purpose on the planet, we do and our planet is to is to love and steward the land that we, you know, the gift of the land. And so rather what conservation land use planning is doing is rather than having isolated areas of protected land with development around it, it flips it upside down. And it says the human development will stay in isolated islands and the and then everything in between will remain open and flowing. And so that is what is happening on a fractal scale from over 75 communities. And so each of those 75 communities is agreeing to maintain their population human activities within a 12 square kilometer zone roughly, which accounts for 15 fold population growth and the amount, you know, a land needed for agriculture as well. And and then everything in between is considered a protected watershed or biodiversity reserve. Some areas have hunting allowed, some areas have hunting that's not allowed. And so these these knit together over vast distances and great acreage to create a network of what we're calling eco cultural quarters. And we're creating a new term here, the posted bio quarter, which is a very familiar term to the conservation world. But we're using eco cultural quarter to really center the fact that the humans, the culture is woven into the process and not separated from the process. So there's a network of eco cultural quarters that when complete will stretch for 175 miles and will comprise six six to eight million acres of land. And this honestly Charles is just a tiny drop in the bucket. I mean, it's like it's it's so insufficient. And it's necessary. Yeah. You know, the story that you started with the man who described the road is feeling like a knife cutting, cutting through himself. Like, you know, we could talk science. I know that, like, Adam on your team is, is, you know, deeply versed in the science of of bio corridors. And, and, you know, you spoke with some of the function, excuse me, the function of that area in terms in times of climatic shifts, and, and, you know, the number of species and stuff. And, you know, I kind of, it brings up to me the question of how, how shall we be guided and who do we listen to and how do we listen? Yeah. And, you know, I kind of, when you told me that story, that was kind of all I needed to know. You know, and I wonder, yeah, then when we speak of the, you know, actual science that coincides with that man's perception. It is maybe it's affirming, you know, to the other part of me that is conditioned in a scientific way of thinking. But I wonder how much, like how, how you navigate in, in carrying out these, these projects, you know, like, because like you said, it's, it's maybe overwhelming, like the scale of what's actually needed, you know, and, and you're just a few people. And like, where do you begin? You know, like, like, and, and I imagine these, I mean, there's been other, other, you know, NGOs that go in there. And sometimes, you know, honestly, leave more harm than good in their wake. And so, so how do you like, I guess I'm asking many things at once. One of them is how do you build trust? You know, another is, how do you know what to do and what to listen to when you're a newcomer there? Yeah. You know, and, and, and how, how are you different from NGOs that come in there and here's the science and here's what we have to do. And well, you know, this indigenous people are very in the way, or, or maybe we have to pay lip service to them or like, like what's different about what you're doing? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's very few newcomers that are a part of the organization. There's really very few. It's, it's, so for instance, a lot of, a lot of beautiful questions weaving in their trials. How do we build trust? We begin with the fact that for every indigenous nation that we're working with, we have a traveling team, a male female traveling team that is from the communities. They are the emissaries. They are the ones bringing the word. They are the ones that are going from village to village and talking to people. So, you know, and in the times that I've traveled along the river and gone down with Adam and some of the other northern team, you know, how we build trust is through music. Yeah. We go and, and we partake in the community's rituals. One of the most important one is the drinking of chicha and the passing of chicha with, which is a fermented yucca beverage. And so we, we sit and drink chicha for a really long time and share songs back and forth with the people. So that's one of the ways. And how do we listen? What do we listen to? One of the first things Adam does when he goes into a community, and this is Adam Jeb, who is our founder, is he talks to the elders and the hunters. And he asks what they've noticed about their wildlife populations over the years? And do they remember the time when there was giant wildlife populations migrating up and down the rivers? And they'll just, they confirm, they confirm all of the, like conservation principles, you know, just for their own stories. So those are, those are confirmed. And when we're working with a community, what happens is that each community elects a small committee, a small selective group that represents the will of the village because the consensus decision making processes of each community are really essential. And those, the consensus decision making is what guides every choice that's made. And so we have this select committee. And one of the things that we added in this last year, which is really, really key is our grandmother program. And so we, we compensate a grandmother to be a part of the committee to help guide what is usually younger people that are part of this process. But as we bring different conservation decisions to the committee ideas for them to consider and play with, then they'll bring those ideas back to the larger community for the consensus process, which is long. And you know, it might take 10 hours of sitting in a circle and everybody sharing what they have to say until they come to what they agree upon. And then what they agree upon is what is enacted in the process. So it is not fast. This is a slow process. And the indigenous consensus governance model is at the center of it pretty much at every level that we work on. So yeah, we build trust really slowly. And it's not linear. I can tell you that it's not linear. Sometimes, you know, fear will come through a community and they'll say, we don't want to work with you anymore. And we'll say, okay, that's fine. And we just wait. We just wait. And it's, you know, in the beginning, when I first started this job, I would get really anxious about that. I'm like, Oh no, they're leaving. That's terrible. And then I've just learned by watching that you just wait. And then, and then the fear passes and they draw, you know, sustenance from the other communities around because that's that's so grassroots. This is spread from community community because communities speak of the trust that they've developed with us. And the communities share with their neighbors why they want to work with us. And so it just spreads organically. And now we have a waiting list. We can't actually service all of the communities that want to participate. And we have another indigenous nation that wants to participate. And we just have to kind of tell them we're not we're not there yet. We can't do it. But it's your role, you know, in this. So it's very grassroots, but you the northern team, you're playing an important function, you're kind of bringing information in that's necessary for them to interface with the legal system, you know, with with the government with funders abroad, right? There's all kinds of because because also you are funding some of these grassroots activists. Absolutely, like every single committee is funded. And so we're funding over, I think it's like probably about 180 people right now across the communities, just in the communities, including grandmothers in their each community. Is that where most of your budget is going? Well, that's a giant question of the budget. There's a lot of budget that goes into travel because majority of our communities are 100 miles past the last road, which means that every trip out requires a small plane trip with a little grass airstrip. So yeah, the back and forth there, that's that's that and funding our team. And we have a we have a indigenous team of 25, the leadership team in Ecuador. And there's only two white people, everybody else, everybody else is from the area. So yeah, the majority is going to human beings, it's going to the humans. And then, you know, food and, you know, we bring gifts to the community, which is really important to give that kind of funding because, you know, one of the ways that development encroaches is people, you know, need money, you know, as the economy becomes more monetized as traditional lifeways are eroded through many means through, you know, the loss of habitat that supports traditional lifeways through schooling, which separates people from subsistence ways, like all those things come in and, you know, all of a sudden people need money. And the only way to get it normally is to join in the development process and and contribute to the further erosion of the basis of those lifeways. So if you're coming in with an alternative, it doesn't even have to be that much money. Like I was really impressed with the amount, like the the the territory, the number of hectares that you have protected, you know, per dollar. I mean, it's like 10 or 100 times more than what a lot of NGOs do. Yes, you're meaning cheaper, less expensive. Yes. Yes. Oh no, it's it's very, it's very cost effective. I mean, this is the thing, Charles, like this, this model is a fractal model that is both scalable and replicable and can and should be applied all around the Amazon and all around the world in any places of global hot spots of biodiversity that we really want to keep from crashing. So it's it's it's it's really a great model. I'm excited about, you know, the world getting to give it a run. It really works. So you said there's two things. One was conservation, land planning and what was the second one? Okay, so the second one is really that's perfect because it really ties on to the more of the economic challenges. So out in the deep, deep rainforest, the cash economy hasn't really impacted people out there. There's nothing really to spend money on except gasoline, which is like gold for sure, because you know, they need gas to run the powder canoes that go up and down the rivers. That's their roadways. But at the base of the Andes, the development has been much more impacted. And the cash economy has just devastated the communities. There's so many people that are no longer speaking their native language. It's just it's it's heartbreaking. And in this area, the rainforest has also been really fragmented. And so our strategy here is edible forest planting. And so this is covering a lot of things at once. Number one, it's reintroducing over 20 indigenous species that used to be widespread, but have been over harvested and taken out. So we're reintroducing these trees. Now these fruit and nut trees like the Morete Palm, when mature can produce between two and 400 pounds of nuts per tree. This is a very, very culturally important tree because of the fact that it produces so much food. It's incredible. And so what we're doing with the edible forest initiative is very strategically planting in areas to create reconnection between rainforest that has been fragmented from itself. And so we plant in the areas that have been fragmented. And then this is providing number one, economic opportunity for the people that are planting and tending and doing all of the work of the nurseries. And number two, it's creating in, I mean, cheese, everything grows so fast down there. It's between five to seven years that trees will reach a level of maturity that they can really be producing food. This is producing food not just for the humans, but for the wildlife that is migrating along these eco-cultural corridors. But then is also the abundance that will be created will feed the humans and also, you know, if whatever is not eaten by either human or animals can then be brought to market. So that's the longer term plan on the Edible Forest Initiative. And yeah, it's beautiful. We've got two nurseries and just gorgeous trees growing. And right now they're being, our first crop of trees is being planted. And they're being planted along the waterways because the waterways, the rivers and the stream beds are the channels of migration for wildlife. So these are the areas that are getting reforested. In 35 meter swaths. And then once we get the first 35 meter swath planted, then we'll move out and we'll just keep planting outward from the waterways. So it's a dual strategy of the Edible Forest combined with conservation land use planning. So we're planning for future population growth. We're planning for agricultural needs and then planting where we need to do repair. Yeah. Do you have any, yeah, so I get the big picture here and I think it's pretty clear. And I wonder if there is, if there are any like stories you could share that by giving us the little picture actually help us understand the big picture, you know, like something that kind of sums it all up or something, maybe that it doesn't sum it all up, but it feels like this is close to the heart of what you're doing. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So like I said, this is a fractal process. The same process is applied at the micro level as applied at the macro level. And the smallest fractal of this is the population growth area. So that's a 12 square kilometer zone where human habitat is going to stay. Now within that, when our indigenous leaders go into the communities, they'll ask the communities, are there things that you want to conserve within this area? And for instance, animal salt licks are really important or the streams and waterways within that area or a wetland zone. And we'll sort of send in some maybe northern numbers, like, well, for instance, a good stream setback might be considered 50 meters here. And what we find is that the communities want to go to the highest bar possible for conservation. So instead of saying, well, we want to have 50 meter conservation, they say we want to have 300 meter conservation. And that's the bar that they want to go to in their heart. It's like, oh, no, no, no. If we want to have clean water for the future generations, then we need to make sure that this is utterly protected. And so just this idea, just this concept that when the people determine what they want for their own land, they choose the highest bar possible for conservation, so that within that 12 square kilometer population area, then there's all of these mini and micro quarters that are created for wildlife migration within that. So again, super fractal from the micro to the macro, guided by the people and the heart of the people, what they want is they want the highest level of conservation possible for the land. That same dynamic plays out all over the world. So often environmental controversy, environmental conflict is basically global forces versus local forces. It's the local people who are opposed to an incinerator or a whole bunch of wind turbines or a strip mine, because people naturally fall in love with the places where they live. And unless we're cut off from those places, I mean, now a lot of people are cut off by technology and can move from one place to another with actually zero impact on their day to day lives. But when people are in daily communication with the plants and animals around them and the rivers and are directly dependent on them in ways that they can see, then they naturally fall into the role of the defenders of those places, unless they are cut off or so so pressured economically that they have to ignore that their heart's calling to take care of their place. And that's really what's happened at the base of the Andes, because the people are really forced to deforest. And you can see they'll be, you know, as you drive down the road, you'll see logs stacked kind of, you know, crisscrossed. And over time, you watch the size of those logs get smaller and smaller, because they've harvested the big trees. And now they're coming down to the smaller trees and coming down to the smaller trees. But if the cash economy has invaded, there's no other options, because wildlife has already been so deeply impacted in this area, they can't live off the land in the same way that they used to 60 years ago, when the land provided all of it for all of their needs. And there was absolutely no need whatsoever for anything to do with something called money. But that's changed now. And that's why the edible forest is so critical. And again, it's like necessary, but insufficient, you know? And so, yeah, that's why it's so vital to be doing this in a much wider way, in a much, much wider way. So now you are raising funds not only to continue doing this work, but you said you're going to expand to another nation? Or like, what are some of, like, what's the big vision if there is one? Yeah. Well, the big vision is connecting between two major national parks, one in the Andes, Sangai National Park and Yasuni National Park in the Amazon, on the border of Peru. And so the big vision for Ecuador is connecting between these two national parks, 175 miles. The larger vision is that this is actually a pilot program, and that we can then take all of the principles and processes that we've learned through hard knocks, figuring it out as we go here, that we can bring it to other locations. And in terms of expansion, like, again, it's a network of connected ecocultural corridors. And so we can expand as far as we want to go in Ecuador, for sure. And then over the border into Peru would be phenomenal. And yeah, it's, I'm going to say funding is challenging because we are kind of flying in the face of standard practices, conservation practices. It's like new paradigm, big time. And so it's a little confusing for people. And it's absolutely essential. And, you know, in so many ways, I feel heartbroken that we are wedded to the current, like, paradigm of philanthropy, which has got so many problems woven in throughout it. But we are, like, we're bridging, we're bridging between stories, right, Charles, between the beautiful new story. And so in that bridging process, we are beholden to the philanthropic model. And so, yeah, I'm my prayer, and I do hold this as a prayer, is that when people hear the call, hear this call, they'll feel it in their bodies. They'll feel it as sort of a whatever, that beautiful worm sensation of like, oh, yes, like, you know, this has been funded right now because of two people that really felt and heard the call, in addition to other foundations and things that we've applied for grants for. But, you know, to be able to bring these resources directly into the communities, I mean, one of the things that we hear when we go into the communities, first of all, don't abandon us. That is literally the first thing that they'll say is don't abandon us, because it happens all the time. NGOs come in with their big ideas, and then they run out of funding, and they're gone. And that's a legit reality, like that, that can happen, you know, you run out of your funding, and what are you going to do? Like, there's no other resources for that. So that's kind of my, like, the thing that I hold in my heart when I'm doing all of the development work is like, don't abandon us, like, no, I do not want to abandon you. I want to make sure that we have, I mean, come on, the resources on the planet, we know how inappropriately everything is skewed right now, it's just so out of control. And, you know, the amount of resources that are needed, you know, in a few million dollars, like nothing, nothing. I know there's like, literally billions going into climate change philanthropy. Yes. And, and, you know, excuse me, gosh, the, the, so there's billions going into climate change philanthropy, and it's very based on metrics, you know, like how many, you know, megatons of, of, of greenhouse gas emissions is just going to lower, you know, it's very, because, and I can understand why, you know, they want to make sure the money's well spent, you need some kind of objective measure of it. But what gets left out of those metrics are things like the necessity of, of healthy migration patterns of wildlife to distribute nutrients and, and keep the forest healthy. Like it's really hard to say, okay, well, how many tons of CO2 sequester does that translate into? Like you can't actually see it through that lens. You can't see the, the, the importance of living networks, unless you're looking at Earth as a living being. Yes. And, and measuring, and measuring, if you can measure at all, measuring its health by something other than the quantity of a single substance. It's a completely different mindset. And that, that mindset, that holistic mindset that, that is not just ecological, but cultural too, that holistic mindset is, is very, it's, it's, it's, you know, kind of cutting edge and, and unfamiliar to traditional philanthropy. But I think that there are, there is an awakening, you know, among, in, in philanthropy, just like anywhere else, like every institution of our culture is having an awakening from within. And so I do think that there are philanthropists and funders who are, like in, like this kind of understanding and, and wanting to put their resources, you know, in places that, that, like the kind of things that you're doing that are tapping into a holistic understanding. And so I don't know if there's any of you listening to this. I'd love to put you in touch with, with Becca and the Amazon, the Andes Amazon Conservancy. Yeah. I don't know, do you have anything, any comment on that, Becca? Well, you know, I'm, what, what came back to mind was this idea of how much billions of dollars are going into climate philanthropy right now. And I, I honestly cannot think of anything more important than the protecting the resilience of the Western Amazon for the planet right now for the whole, for the whole planet. Like the Eastern Amazon, we know is in dire, dire trouble from deforestation and drying incredible drought that's happening there. We know what that does to the water cycles. So protecting and the resilience, this, this is the most resilient landscape, maybe in the world. And so, so holding dear in our hearts, this most resilient landscape, this jewel of the planet, I believe is the most important climate action we can take right now. And so, again, it's like, but which lens are we going to look through? We can look through the lens of, of carbon sequestration. But, but the problem is that the way that is generally measured right now is if there's imminent deforestation at hand. And so this, we're protecting this from this deforestation. But what if we're just protecting it, period? Like, we're not worrying about deforestation in the deep rainforest at the moment because the people are living in right relationship and they don't need to deforest. Right? So it's like, again, all of the rules are slightly skewed. And I know they're working on biodiversity credits and all of these stewardship credits. And there's, there's new mechanisms that play. And those are the ones that I have my heart set on because of course, it's not going to happen fast enough for us because we need resources now. But, but I do believe that this work is honestly the most important work in service to the, in service to creating resilient climate, which we desperately need to support. And, and I think that your whole book, Charles, that you wrote on climate really affirms that, you know, if we're just taking care of the water, for instance, let's just take care of the water. Yeah, I said if we're going to focus on one substance as a measure of Earth's health, it should be water. Exactly. And not carbon. Not carbon is not important, but water is life, as they say. Water is life indeed. And another thing that I think I wrote about in that book is the idea that the deep Amazon, it's like, if you can preserve the deep Amazon in health, then there will always be like a reservoir of health, like a, an example of health, like, like a place where Earth remembers what it is like to be healthy. And if you can preserve that, there will always be hope because it can radiate its health back out to the rest of the planet. But if you destroy that, the heart of the planet, then where on Earth does Earth remember what it is like to be healthy? Exactly. Yeah. And you're working right in that, that deepest, deepest heart. Yes. Of the planet. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And like just circling back to what I started with a hundred million year old forest, right, because life's, you know, Mother Earth's natural functioning is over a very long cycle of time. And we humans have been here for a blink of an eye and look what we've done in that time. And yet, if we can stop causing harm, just stop causing harm. She'll rebound. She's incredible. Just stop causing harm. And so that's what this work is doing is just, it's, it's halting human impact. And again, very, it's very natural for communities to want to spread up and down rivers with development. That's very natural. It's like, we would want to spread up and down a road here. Like the rivers are their roads. But so for the communities themselves to say, we will constrain ourselves to this area and not do it as easy and convenient by developing and moving our expanding along the rivers. Like that is what is going to maintain the resilience of the forest. That's so inspiring. Like these, these are people who, you know, own very little and face a lot of hardship. And for them to say, nonetheless, we will restrain our development. It kind of puts the question to us, you know, like, what kind of restraint are we willing to exercise here? If they're going to do it, you know, it kind of, it's like, well, maybe we could consider doing that as well. Yeah, exactly. You know, and as I've said, there's a waiting list. We have a waiting list of communities that want to join. And we have a waiting, we have another Indigenous nation that wants to join. And, you know, right now we have to say no. And it's just because of financial resources. Like, how do people, if people are, you know, in the funding world, and I mean, are you doing like, like, like mass fundraising, where, where are you like people give $20, you know, do you have that? Or is it more like you're, like, how do, if, yeah, like who are we speaking to now, if we're talking about funding? Yeah, so we're, you know, all, every, every size of offering is so welcome. And, and, and it's like, it's, it's kind of like I, you know, I know you've talked about in the past, Charles, about the Newtonian concept of having to have a giant force in order to create a giant impact, right? And so I want to say that, you know, every dollar that someone feels to divert from some other, you know, avenue into this is so, so, so welcome. And, you know, our very stripped down, like super lean, don't expand, just maintain right now budget is about $75,000 a month. And that it takes a lot of $10,000 grants, which is what I'm writing right now. Right. We get to that. It's kind of, it's kind of ridiculous. So every amount is welcome. And what we really need are to find the people for whom resources, large scale resources are nothing, you know, like, okay, we, yeah, maybe a hundred thousand. That's, that's like breakfast money for me, you know, because we know that those people, we know that the way the resources are getting concentrated in the hands of the few, that those few that, that have the concentrated resources and are really hearing the call, hearing the prayer, hearing the song of this new paradigm of conservation of this. Okay. It just strikes me though, the people who will actually do that are not the people who will see it as, oh, this is breakfast money for me. There are people who are holding their money so sacred that they want to use it in the most beautiful way that they can. I love that. And so it's not like, oh, this is kind of throw away money. I might as well give it to the AC. It's people who are holding their money in sacred trust, you know, and maybe they've inherited it from their, their families, you know, their ancestors, maybe they've inherited it from an earlier time of their life when they were doing something with their, their gifts that brought a lot of money. And, and, you know, either way, they have it now and they recognize that, that through fortune, through the gifts that they have been given, through, through, you know, whatever has brought them this, that, that, like, wow, you know, what do I do with this to, to that, that, that matches my sense that this is sacred, you know, like, and that's why I wrote the book sacred economics. I was like, like, why is money less sacred than everything else? Right. You know, like, why have we divided the world into the profane and the sacred? And, and how can we reclaim the profane for the sacred? And so one of the ways to do that is actually to hold money as sacred. Because what it is actually, it is the means by which you can coordinate human activity and direct collective resources. It's like a powerful magical implement. It is indeed. And so the, there are people who recognize that and who will, who will, yeah, who will recognize the resonance between what you're doing and their own feeling that their money is actually sacred, you know, too sacred to buy, to spend on a yacht. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's not that, that there, it's not even necessarily restraint, you know, it's more of a recognition of what this is for. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's the kind of person, you know, like, I mean, I don't want necessarily people to be putting their, their, you know, grocery money into the AC. Right. But people who, because there are many, like, I think it's, it's also a sacred use of money to provide for your family. Of course. But there are people who have, have, have more than is necessary to provide for their families. And then like, that's the real question. What do you do with it then? You know, like, and, and it's tough, like, you know, I know philanthropists who are, who recognize the limitations of philanthropy and how, how, and the whole culture of philanthropy and the tax laws and all of these different forces that kind of channel it into things that are still kind of part of the old story, you know. And, and so I think that those who are feeling the limitations of that and, you know, and really ready for a different, excuse me, a different paradigm will feel a natural resonance to the AC. And that's, I guess, those are the ones that I really would like to connect with, connect with your work. Thank you, Charles. And you know, it really brings back to mind our very first, our fund, our founding funder, who made a lot of money in Bitcoin and said, well, what is this for? This isn't for me, clearly. And he was deeply involved in medicine communities, people working with medicine plants. And when he connected to the spirit of the medicine plant, she said, this is, this is where this needs to go. This goes to the Amazon. This is where I was born, and this is where I need to be protected and saved. And, and, and so that was how this all really got rolling was one funder really hearing the call. And that's, that's been true with, with another funder that we have that has really heard the call. And it's, and this, this woman is a, has, is an elder and who's been a climate activist her whole life. Okay, so like 45, 50 years before anybody knew anything about, you know, climate activism. And she said, this is the first time that I feel like after all of those years of all of those actions, this is the first time I feel like my resources are going towards something that's going to actually, that actually can do something that can actually work. And so yeah, it's really like, again, do you feel the call? Do you hear the song? Do you feel it in your heart when you hear these stories? And if so, I'm here and so excited to have, I'm happy to do presentations for anyone that would like to hear the whole story. And you can, and for anyone that just wants to make a donation right now, you can go to our website, which is AAconserve.org, AAconserve.org. And you can make a donation there. And on that donation page, it has a link to my email. So if you want to reach out to me directly, you've got a larger contribution to make and you want to have a conversation and reach out to me directly there. Yeah, yeah, like, like Becca has actually a very professional set of materials and everything. Yeah, kind of not my style to like go through with, you know, that slideshow. But, but yeah, you're, it's really impressive actually what you guys have, have created, you know, from so little. Yeah. I remember, you know, first telling you the story a couple of years ago. And, you know, you heard it right away. You're like, oh, this is different. This is different. How can I help? And at that time, we were operating in what we call stealth mode, which was, we were just trying to be so quiet about what we were doing because we, you know, we knew that it was really, really effective and we didn't want to agitate any of the systems to come in and create a response to us. And, you know, my prayer over the last couple of years is let us sink our roots as deeply as possible, so that when the winds blow, we are rooted in solid and we can handle the blowing winds. And it is only recently that, and this has really been guided again by our Indigenous team of 25, it's been 100% led by them. And they have recently, you know, expanded on what they're willing and allowing me to share. And so now our website for so long really didn't show much of anything because I couldn't show anything because it just feel safe to people. And now they've given their permission. So now there's pictures of our team and they made a beautiful video and they're just, they're, they're really excited now to share with the world what we're doing. So, so now, you know, we've sort of taken the lid off and now we get to tell people what's going, what's really happening down here. And again, it's beautiful. It's really beautiful, which doesn't mean it's easy. Okay. It's also really, really hard, but that's okay. All, all good things are a good challenge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing, sharing about it, you know, and I hope that good things come from our conversation. And yeah, and I really, I guess one of those good things might be, and some other people falling in love with what you're doing. Yeah. You know, and, and new relationships being formed. Yes. Yeah, grows and expands this beautiful web of connection of all of these people across the planet that are really in service to that new story and, and wanna, wanna birth it in all of the places. And this is our, our small contribution to that new story. Yeah. Thank you so much, Charles brother. I'm just so grateful to you for your support these years and for your willingness to share. Yeah, I really care about it. You know, it's one of those things that, that like, I mean, I've never even been there, you know, yeah, um, we'll get you down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks Becca. Thank you so much, Charles. All right.