 Okay, we'll call the third committee the whole meeting to order everyone. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance first I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and through the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Did you do anything? I'm just gonna get the information for roll call We Chairperson President of the council Mr.. Bourne is not here and also Jim Gisha the vice president are not here So Eric Moon fly she's going to be the secretary for this meeting and he'll call roll born excused Bulk is excused Bowers excused Decker Gisha is excused and is excused Heidemann Kathe Kittleson Clayunas here Monta your Renfoeches here sir, sir venerable Vue and Wagamon 11 presents 11 present we have quorum. Thank you We would like to entertain approval the minutes from June 30th committee of the whole meeting Moved and seconded to approve the minutes from June 30th any discussion on the minutes Okay, all in favor of approving the minutes Opposed Okay, they stand approved. Thank you very much The agendas this evening is just one item. So we want to get right at it and Steve Salkalowski from city planning and development We'll introduce our speakers and our present presenters today. I believe we all have a plan Outline for us so we can follow along with that and ask questions as we would you I don't know Just go ahead and introduce. Thank you All right, thank you madam chairman council Nice to see you guys this evening again. We're talking about the Taylor Drive district master plan In August of 2008 we were here with the preferred alternative Prior to having the document formally adopted by the common council The discussion was that we should at least have an opportunity to one last time publicly speak and have it presented before The committee of the whole and the public based on channel age. So Jeff Sanders is here of Omnion Associates as well as Clark Meyer. I'm not going to take any of just thunder I can help answer questions if anyone has any but I did want to thank several people with regards to this process Obviously, I'd like to thank planning and development director Paul it enters and Chad Peleshek from the planning development office a lot of time and energy spent on our office on this plan I want to thank Jeff Sanders and his staff at Omnion Associates They really were Instrumental in the development of this plan really took the lead in having several public meetings in terms of Providing information to the public in order to get a base of information in terms of Finding out from the city of Sheboygan what we really wanted to see the Taylor Drive master plan look like with many of their Exercises with the strengths the weaknesses opportunities threats visual preferences cognitive mapping many different things that they had presented that they used to in essence compile the data and now use their expertise to help us out and providing some Alternatives and some ways of potentially developing the Taylor Drive corridor in the future want to thank the Mayor Ryan and today's present council as well as Mayor Perez in the previous council with the fact of Recognizing that this is an important corridor that we needed to do some things We need to do some planning and to take on an effort like this because Taylor Drive is a Very important corridor and something needs to be done not only to help those businesses that are doing well now But to also make it a thriving corridor once again, so that's I appreciate the council's Help in that matter also want to thank the members of the Sheboygan Development Corporation John Rodie and Gary Dullmas were attended several meetings so I appreciate that and last but not certainly not least all the stakeholders that participated in these meetings the property owners the business owners the people the citizens that took their time to Participate you can't have a good plan without citizen participation and getting the input from everyone in the community So I think that's real important and because of that. I think we'll have a better plan because of that so again, what we're doing here today as we basically we're Developing a plan for the long-term viability of the Taylor Drive Corridor and we're looking to basically have the plan implemented We're looking for the committee of the whole to recommend favorably to the common council to eventually adopt this long-term strategy land use strategy for the Viability of Taylor Drive in the future. So with that I will introduce Jeff Sanders of Abney and Associates We lost our phone Thank You madam chair Welcome, mr. Mayor. I promised I would not say Mayor Bob even though you asked so it's mr. Mayor As Steve pointed can ever first of all can everybody hear me? Okay with there as Steve pointed out we've been at this for a while now As he also pointed out there was an election in between when we started and where we are tonight so some of the people in this room may have more experience or more knowledge of this process and others and in recognition of that what I wanted to do is just Briefly go over where we started how we got to where we are tonight the majority of the time that Clark And I'll be talking tonight and certainly the majority of time that Will be fielding question and answers if there are any focuses on the chapter that you have in front of you right now It's called chapter 8 it's the preferred development alternative It's essentially the decision that this community has made thus far There were other alternatives that were considered actually quite a few alternatives that were considered there were three that were presented We'll talk briefly about those But then we'll get into the guts of the reason for tonight's meeting That's chapter 8 by all means if you have any questions at any time, please ask raise your hand toss something in my direction Whatever it takes We had a nine phase planning process essentially there are nine chapters to this planning document listed above each one of those is essentially forgive the metaphor but a brick that we used to construct the foundation for this plan Some of it is as Steve alluded to earlier public participation oriented as a as a planner for the past six sixteen and a half years I know that regardless of whether you're looking at a citywide plan or a neighborhood plan Or even working on a structure an individual individual structure as Clark works on as an architect Public participation is the key component. It's the most important thing elected official support is fantastic Getting private developers and others involved is fantastic But you have to have public participation You have to have that ground level buy-in for the project or it's a document that tends to sit on a bookshelf and click Dust and planners like me architects like Clark city staff hate seeing plans It's on shelves and gather dust The introduction chapter basically it just describes the community in general describes the district in particular There's a map summary of the plan structure and meetings a guide to each of the chapters And then finally a discussion or a reference to how the plan will be implemented when we get to the implementation chapter The project area was defined in the in the request for proposals It has been expanded slightly since the original definition It doesn't appear on this map, but there's a triangular area here that appears That exists north of Kohler Memorial Drive that has been included within the project area of the study area It includes the the big Commercial nodes that we have within the district certainly Memorial Mall Taylor Heights shopping center The former Walmart site and a number of other properties And it also includes the sugar property the very large undeveloped farm southwest of the corridor Chapter 2 focused on existing conditions and it is as it implies just a description of the existing conditions in terms of land uses structures Available businesses vacancies that sort of thing within the district Transportation assessment focused on the existing transportation network its capacity and its limitations not only for today But for the limitations that may come into play as you go forward with implementation in the project An Infrastructure assessment looks at all the infrastructure water utilities cable that sort of thing Is the capacity there to address current needs the answer to that question was yes The question then becomes is there sufficient capacity to address? Whatever the plan would call for and when we did this part of the phase way back in the beginning We weren't sure what you where you as a community wanted to go within the district What we were sure of is that you had existing Infrastructure to support almost anything that was proposed short of heavy industry and I suspect that was never a real option within the district There are some upgrades that would be necessary Certainly if development occurs on the sugar property you're gonna have to have infrastructure serving that that part of the district In terms of market considerations what we did is identified five communities that share traits similar to the city of Sheboygan They're not the same in terms of population They're not the same in terms of geographic footprint, but in terms of the issues related to the district the Taylor Drive district There are many similarities between these five You'll see them as the village of Ashwabanaan the cities of Fond du Lac Janesville Manitowoc and Port Washington the one thing that all six communities have in common Is they're all located on water and water plays a key role has played a key role in the history of the community And certainly will play one of the key roles in the future of the community And we did additional market area data analysis and future market analyses as well As Steve mentioned there were a variety of meetings that we held early in the process for the public To encourage participation a kickoff meeting a vision meeting and we also conducted stakeholder interviews City staff identified a number of key stakeholders within the district primarily business owners and landowners Whose participation they felt was critical to the long-term success of the project We sat I sat down with them and interviewed them most most cases about an hour to an hour and a half of their time With about 25 questions if I remember correctly All about how they felt about the corridor today where what visions they had for the future corridor And what role they saw Themselves playing in partnership with the city and other other entities other stakeholders and going forward Chapter 7 we presented a series of design and development alternatives, and I'll talk about those Briefly in a moment But in the introduction to the section we wanted to talk about signage and wayfinding you know basically how do we get the Market to the market how do we get? consumers residents future business owners Industry light industry or light manufacturing if desired how do you get them from wherever they are to here and once within the district How do those people navigate their way through the district? And wayfinding is different than just signage. I mean wait. There's a Technique to wayfinding that makes for easy and conducive travel within a corridor. It's not just signage. It's landscaping It's thematic use of pedestrian amenities and bicycle amenities signage design designs And the wayfinding features one of which one of our other architects drew up As an entry feature a gateway feature to the district We want to differentiate the Taylor Drive district from the remainder of the city of Sheboygan. It's a unique different district It's not downtown. It's not south pier Riverfront or lakefront So I want to play on its strengths not compare it to the other districts within the community All three of the proposals that we presented included a mixed-use component focused on the Taylor height shopping center Walmart property Mixed use being a mixture of uses within the same structure on the same site or on adjoining sites those uses typically are commercial Office and residential so it's conceivable in the future that we'll see two three four five-story buildings Within the district where in the first floor is devoted to commercial uses the second floor may be office uses a real-state office Or something of that ilk and this and the floor is above would be residential living Everything from potentially condominiums to rental apartments one two three of any size And the key the reason for that is the key to the long-term future success of this district is going to be having people in it 24-7 and one of the things we talked about quite a bit throughout this process was our the impossibility of turning back the clock What the Taylor Drive corridor once was a thriving commercial district in that format? It's unlikely to ever be again what it can be is an equally or more thriving Commercial district based upon a differing set of design uses a differing set of land uses Big box retail is probably not going to be the dominant player within the district that it was in the past And the reason for that has little to do with the desires of the city or the existing land owners and everything To do with market priorities Big box retail tends to gravitate towards highway corridors now in major through corridors, and you've seen that you've experienced that first hand That's part of the reason Significant part of the reason why you began this project The other thing is we want to look at land uses that are economic generators Land uses that catalyze the kind of growth or the kind of development that you want to see here So mixed-use development brings a 24-7 audience into the mark into the district and that audience becomes a market for the kinds of Development that will occur as a result So the first one we said suggested was the event park with a conference center Because the sugar property is such a beautiful site what we wanted to do what the city asked us to do both staff and official and Stakeholders was to identify varying densities or varying differences of development for the parcel We wanted a relatively low density option kind of a middle density option and perhaps a more dense option But all three of the options that we brought for discussion and all the options that we considered were based on the protection of that Corridor protection of existing wooded areas protection of the wetlands the flood plains and more most importantly perhaps protection of willow Creek It's an incredibly Significant resource that you have right in the middle of the western part of this or right on the periphery of the western part of the city And if it if it's developed over time We want to make sure that that development is done in harmony with that landscape because that landscape in effect Is going to be the selling point or one of the key drivers of whatever happens within this district? And I can't stress that enough the sugar property as part of this project is the key Determinant of the long-term future of the Taylor Drive district And we'll talk I'm sure quite a bit more about that in the near future So the actually Clark if you'd like to talk a little bit about the event park and hotel and conference center and the other two alternatives Creating here is along the outside edge for hospitality mixed-use development and then Adaptive reuse of the existing mall and this was one of the three options. We looked at the second one Was to take this same area and create a research park in which we bring in as many as 2,000 people to work down and on that shaker property And what's the one thing that those 2,000 people need they need all of the amenities from day to day restaurants dry cleaners Video stores and so forth which could all be developed in this mixed-use area Third option was to take it one step farther and make this Designate this as a senior living center which would provide people 24 hours Living in this in the same district that they shop that they work and all of that could take place The senior housing could be down here with retail development along the periphery So the last time we were here Those are the alternatives we presented then you as a community through city staff came back to us and said This is the one we want to go forward with and that one the preferred development alternative as well Spend the remainder of the evening talking about it's the research part research park with mixed-use office Excuse me mixed-use retail scheme. So again the key features to this are the gateway features Those elements of the project or those elements of the plan that differentiate the Taylor Drive district from other districts within the community from other places nearby And those would be forms of monument signage and other types of signage at the entrance at the ingress and egress points of the district But equally importantly Thematically similar elements throughout the district. So if you decide in the future if you decide to go with a natural rock Monument gateway feature you'd want to use that that design theme in all of the signage and all the way-finding components within the district itself If you go with wood or any other design feature you'd want to do that We're looking to maintain to create and maintain a theme throughout the district so that people know when they're in the district That they're in the district a Key component of this is going to be redevelopment at Memorial Mall All of the development that occurs is and we'll talk again a little bit more about this in a moment But all the development that occurs is going to be development that's initiated or or undertaken by private develop Private developers private interests, but the city is going to play a significant role in guiding that development There's a variety of ways it can do so through funding strategies And other things But it's important to recognize that the mall in its existing state has some a couple tremendous assets I mean certainly coals is something that's doing well shop goes doing well But there are some challenges there as well there are challenges in malls across the country And what we're seeing is many of the old traditional malls built in the late 60s early 70s are converting to Community and civic centers, which are wonderful gathering places, but not great generators of tax income Or they're being raised for housing housing is also nice, but again housing doesn't create jobs jobs are important That's her so what we want to do is look at Memorial Mall and say what can be done with the existing structure? Preserving its strengths enhancing it's enhancing its weaknesses. So that was a focus Obviously the Taylor Heights property in the in the Walmart site You know the Walmart site is a vacant structure that is sitting there waiting for somebody to come up with a really good idea of What to do with that? That was part of what this planning process was about and then finally the research park the campus setting at the sugar property The gateway features at entry points wayfinding throughout the district that decorative lighting and pedestrian bicycle amenities One of the things we heard throughout this process. So we want more bicycle trails We want more places to walk we want alternative modes of transportation from the car now clearly 10 years from now 20 years from now the automobile is still going to be the dominant form of transportation Whether it's hybrid electric hydrogen cell or some other high-tech form of transportation It's it's um power. It's still going to be the car But we want to enhance opportunities for people to get around without having to get into the car And again, that's to get through the district to the district and from the district Clark We looked at different types of mixed use one would be creating town homes along the edge yet People is the opportunity to show ownership of a particular structure The other is to incorporate mixed-use buildings inside The the Taylor Heights area which would have retail and office on the lower levels and then living units above and these are just some examples of different styles Residential living we're looking at town homes along the elder edge Which a but the adjacent residential areas to the well, especially to the east but also this Area to the north and then going with a larger structure pulling that all toward the street to create and define an area that could The residents could then take ownership of with fountain features And create this this element in which they have their own neighborhood within the district as well one of the big stumbling points on this is what to do with the existing Mall and one item or one possibility is to bring in a major retailer that would create the district as a destination Whether that's a this we just have an example of a Cabela's or a Bass Pearl shop something of that nature in which members of this community as well as people at Northeast Wisconsin would travel to Sheboygan to be able to use these type of facilities Once they're in the district We also provide Hotel accommodations so they have the opportunity to not only come to the district Experience what's going on in Taylor Drive, but also stay there once they're staying there And they're going to need all the other amenities as well and that would be you know getting a hotel possibly out here Right at Kohler Memorial Drive This is what Jeff was talking about and on that Gateway feature that maybe it's some kind of a water element or something with signage to identify that you're entering into the Taylor District and Then eliminate some of that asphalt parking that's out there and create more of a park like setting with the introduction of more landscaping both along Taylor Drive and also within the The mall parking lot that existing mall parking lot that it's where it stands today And finally the development of the shooter property into a research park Getting high-tech industry down in that particular area whether it's medical research or technology would create the people that would then Use that the other amenities that would occur along the Taylor Drive corridor This can be done with whether it's a competition a National competition to attract well-known architects to design green buildings for example Which would then entail people would maybe want to come and see what those green buildings are So that now you're introducing more people to that to the district as well And one of the strengths of the sugar property one of the strengths of the Taylor Drive district is the sugar property in the sense that Almost every community that you're going to be competing against because every community out there is going to be trying to secure some of The same types of businesses some of the same types of industry and commercial development that you're going to pursue There are very very few in this area Basically, Milwaukee up to Green Bay and points West that have something like the sugar property there That have this beautiful natural setting that essentially looks like a bowl right when you're in the middle of the sugar property And you look around you don't see the city of Sheboygan you see trees Wetlands you see the stream there's a ridge that kind of comes all the way around from the the far northwest corner all the way down to the far Southeast corner That's an opportunity the kinds of development particularly the the green economy sustainable development sustainable jobs that Every community in the country is trying to get right now We'll look at a place like that much different than they'll look at many of the communities that you're going to be competing with and competing against So we want again We want to use the natural assets that exist within the district as an attraction for the kinds of development that we're looking at that you're looking for and this gets into the campus plan where Maintain as much of the green spaces as we can and yet intermindal buildings minimal parking With a lot of landscaping to create this park like setting on that lower Sugar property to again maintain the green thing Well, we did on this map the coloring that you see in the kind of burnt red Are areas that we identified as undevelopable their areas that either are wetlander floodplain or within close proximity to wetlander floodplain Those would be permanently preserved potentially through conservation easements and a variety of other tools that the city could use They'd be available as park and recreational assets potentially locations for bicycle trails and pedestrian trails within the corridor But what we're left with is essentially what Clark described a very campus-like setting We have individual nodes of development that exist so that You know if we're lucky we have one big University of Wisconsin or Something of the like that comes in a looks at the entire site What's more likely is you're going to build it up over time You'll have a couple that'll look close to the road because their business benefits from that You may have others that would prefer to be more secluded on the site in that campus setting The trails that provide access throughout would have rest and reflection areas Which for planners is ascending in for a place to sit down and eat lunch or you know watch the birds fly by That would be integrated within the site and again connected to the tail drive district as a whole So it's really about embracing the assets within the corridor and those assets are Significant shop co coals the other businesses that are doing well within the corridor And then building upon them with some of the businesses that might find Or might be able to enhance the district to be what you've wanted what you want it to be The question about Implementation has come up and what we did in our implementation chapter and what you'll see when we present the plan To the city is listed all the tools that are available for local governments to implement plans like this the city will have Opportunities for proactive participation opportunities to grease the skids if you will and it'll be up to you as a community to Decide what level of action you take to ensure or to effectuate this plan over time and really what we were striving for is To create a starting point or a framework from which the kinds of development that you as a city want the kinds of Development that this corridor needs to become the vibrant quarter that it once was again And we hope that the plan that we put together on the strength of all the information that the city provided 25 30 35 percent of this is us all the rest of it's you and all the people who participate and said these are our needs This is what we want to see And we built upon that to essentially create this plan and As Clark and those of you who've been in the meetings that I facilitated know I could keep talking and talking But I'd prefer to leave the rest to you if you'd like and entertain any questions that you might have about the process in general the specific proposals or Brett Farre playing for the Vikings Yes, ma'am. Oh, I'm sorry All the person wants me on thank you madam chair I think it's a good idea for us to have a master plan to go ahead We've had the master plan for the south pier and the development up the river and some of the renovation Neighborhoods even though we can't do it right now We need to have the master plan for the future rather than just let things happen It's an excellent point. I mean it's certainly one of the questions that has popped up in the past in the recent past I'm sure one of the questions some of you are thinking is well considering the current economy in the current housing market How do we do this? That's a good question I've talked with Planners around the state around the country because that's what planners do we just sit on talk about this kind of stuff trying to Dress up the current economic situation and make it look like a good thing is impossible. It's not a good thing It's a bad thing people are losing jobs businesses are being hurt cities are being hurt, etc But if you had to find a bright spot in it and this is a bit of a stretch But if you had to find a bright spot It provides local governments an opportunity to take a time out to actually sit back and plan for what inevitably will come And that coming inevitability is a housing market. That's going to be strong again an economy That's going to be strong now whether that happens in six months 18 months or slightly longer. It will happen I think the economic indicators that we've all seen in the last two or three days are Demonstrating that if we haven't bottomed out yet at least we've made that curve I think there are a lot of indicators out there, and I'm not an economist But one of the thing planners do is follow this this kind of stuff very closely It looks like we've turned a corner and now the question becomes how long it's going to take to get back to where we were Well, that's a good question But this this economic situation has provided communities like Sheboygan with an opportunity to actually step back Put plans in place so when that rebound occurs you're ready for it, and that's all a plan is right? It's a guidance document. It's not a blueprint There's a difference between a comprehensive plan and a general plan and a district plan Things like the blueprint for a structure or an ordinance it provides guidance to the types of Activities and development that this city wants to see within that area So it was an excellent comment. Thank you All the person kill us. Thank you madam chair Also Jeff address the fact that I mean you were talking the fact that we have that sugar property You're saying to us that's sort of really like a hidden jewel, isn't it? I mean something that maybe as With development in the future that might give us, you know give give us the edge on that we might need with With that property being there, right? excellent question and the The subject of the sugar property has popped up quite frequently through this process for obvious reasons It doesn't exist within the boundaries of the city of Sheboygan Why is the city of Sheboygan planning for property that is not within the boundaries? Well because every but every city does that every city envisions growth outward as well as upward that property is An opportunity that this district in this city has as I mentioned earlier that most don't now the question arose About 11 months ago when I was here, you know, what would happen if the sugar property was taken out of play? Well, we could still and and I think we have When I say we I'm not referring to Omni the collective we I think we've put together a plan focused on mixed-use development at Taylor Heights and Walmart That can provide the kind of dynamic that the Taylor Drive district needs to rebound to recover from What what it has experienced over the course of the last 10 15 years or so? Putting the sugar property in play however that opens up doors that just wouldn't exist What regardless of which one of the alternatives via chosen I might add all of those alternatives had strengths and weaknesses But all of them would have provided the kind of influx of new Consumers consumers of product consumers of goods that this district needs to thrive so Yes, I believe at the last meeting I made a statement to the effect of had you written the RFP not including sugar I don't know that we would have proposed on it Because it's so clearly the critical element to this proposal to this project to the long-term success Eventually that property will transition to the city now I also mentioned at that meeting in August last year that if it never did Hypothetically if it stayed in the town development is still going to occur there There's there's just short of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett or somebody buying it and preserving it as it is The market is going to look at that piece of property and say we can do something with this that that nebulous market That's out there if it occurred within the town if stayed within the town's boundaries The city would still reap tremendous benefit from it because those people aren't going to walk out into the woods at lunch They're going to walk up onto the tail drive district and and have Thai food or eat at the Chinese restaurant or do it You know, whatever they do But it is because of the advantages that cities can provide in terms of utilities It's a it's almost a foregone conclusion. That's some point in the future that property is within your boundaries any other questions I Have a question Jeff Okay, let's say we take this plan and we say yes we support it It could sit there five ten years Does it have a maintenance to it there are the things we need to do to something like this how long up What is the shelf life of something like this? You know, like you're telling us things, you know Let's say five years from now. We have to do this all over again. I mean Excellent question essentially a master plan like this is a catalyzer and Just like any other catalyzer requires fuel it requires oxygen, etc Well, the fuel of the oxygen if you will that the city can provide is actually quite varied Everything from programs probably many of you many of you are familiar with like TIF programs and things like that infrastructure improvements enhancements tax incentives and other things to Incentivize the kind of development that you want to see within the district But in the end it's going to require Someone a developer a business to say that looks like where we want to be The city can Lay that framework out can use this plan as as the again the incentivizer of that development But in the end the market will decide what occurs here now that said what we did is produced a plan That is market-based There was nothing of the alternatives that we proposed the three that came before you about a year ago And the four or five or so that we could that we strongly considered before deciding not to pursue our all market base There's a strong market for those types of development not just in the city of Sheboygan But in this area in general, and it's the kind of development again. Everybody's going to be competing for one of the Most important things city staff included in the RFP was the term sustainable development now two years ago I don't know if my mom and dad had ever really heard that term. They know it now. They've heard about the green economy They've heard about peak oil. They've heard they've seen rising energy costs, and although we're in a bit of a lull right now That's not going to last either There are communities across the country those that are successful right now that are weathering this economy better than others Are those that were prepared for this kind of downturn? Usually utilizing green development and innovative infrastructure and stormwater and pervious pavement and Natural landscape and the kinds of things that are throughout this plan the kinds of things that you as a community asked for Not just in the RFP, but throughout the planning process. So There is There are many things that the city can do to incentivize this to to again grease those skids But we'll find out five years from now if the market if we were right in our assessment of the market Going back to your specific question. How long will a plan like this last well ten years from now? It's out of date, but ten years from now. Hopefully the plan is no longer necessary Alderman wangaman had a question Thank You madam chairman I guess we all agree that the city needs economic development is economic growth To what extent has this whole plan been presented to the people who own businesses there now? say for instance see Corporation or the company that owns Taylor Heights shopping center the mall Shop code these places Has this all been laid out for them and what is their reaction to it? Excellent question at the very beginning of this process We send up sent out postcards to every single landowner within the district so every business owner every property owner We also sent them Steve correct me if I'm wrong to the residential district the residential neighborhood to the east I don't recall what the number was but it was in the hundreds I believe Total Okay, so around 200 notices went out So every everyone who owned property or owned a business or had an interest in a business within the district at that time at The very beginning of this process received a postcard and many of those people showed up at the initial meeting There was a second postcard invitation that went out for the second meeting The stakeholder interviews that we discussed earlier focused on again eight key stakeholders That the city identified one of which were the owners of the Taylor Heights Taylor Heights shopping center Unfortunately of the eight that that we Saw it for interviews the owners of the Taylor Heights Center were the only ones that we could not secure for an interview And I believe there was a lot of transition going on within the company that owns that business I had calls to New Jersey, New York and Minnesota all trying to track down who the appropriate person would be to We were prepared to drive there to fly there or to just do the interview over the phone That was the only one that we were not able to get a hold of we did however talk to a number of businesses within the Taylor Heights shopping center We talked to the mall We talked to a couple other reality or land development interests within the district another small business and then the owner of the sugar property mr. Sugar so it's In one sense, and I hope this doesn't sound flippant, but it's kind of you can lead the horse to water situation I think the effort that this that city staff took in trying to secure input from that particular organization Was significant and in the end we just didn't get we probably didn't get the level of participation that we would have preferred I Also understand that certain areas of the sugar property Could be considered historic Indian lands that would contain significant remnants of Indian culture Well, one of the things that we did and it's in the existing conditions assessment as we looked at a natural and cultural resource Assessment throughout the district. There are a number of inventories available. There's the a hi the archaeological historical inventory architectural and historical inventory There are a number of agencies the United States Fish and Wildlife Service State Historic Preservation Office DNR and others who have information related to significant resources in the state So what we do basically at the beginning of the process is contact them say this is the property in question This is location. What do you know? What do you suspect? Well, the results were a bit surprising to us not in terms of the possibility that something were there but the Level of something that might be there Anytime you have two Streams that to water bodies that come together in close proximity to Lake Michigan or Lake Winnebago or another large water body in this case Sheboygan River and Willow Creek Anytime you have a sheltered Cove or a sheltered bowl somewhere. We have ridge and tree line Those are the kinds of places that would have been permanent encampments in some cases But very very frequently seasonal or temporary camp encampments So when we got that information back, we did find a lot of information Directly related to campsites to potential hunting areas like that Now as you might suspect the organizations and the agencies that have that information Don't really like to give out a whole lot of detail as to what was there and where specifically it was Because that can lead to things Not being where they were But what we did learn is there are a number of sites Primarily within sugar property and a couple others just south of sugar property that have some significance so if development occurs when development occurs as Part of the development process as part of the construction process those those artifacts have discovered would have to be protected There's a variety of mechanisms to do that. There's something called NAGPRA. It's a Native American graves Protection repatriation act. There's something called ARPA the Archeological Resource Protection Act and a number of other things that make sure If you put a shovel in the ground and you find something interesting You don't put the shovel in the ground again until you address it, but excellent question. There are some There is evidence that there is some interesting stuff down there Yes, sir Are there any other questions public questions? Okay, we've got some Paulette Anderson planning development as a statement We want to come up here, please call it Thank you, we were able to contact the owners of The Taylor Heights shopping district. It was after the stakeholder interviews were held and Omni had tried to contact them so it was months later But we were finally able to make a connection with them. So we did receive their input good Yes, um, yeah, would you like to say something Question citizen input here, I like your proposal and I like a couple of things that you said One was a theme over a period of time and it's gone over a period of time. What is unique about your plan? That puts sheboygan head and shoulders over another community So it can't be easily duplicated in that community an example is we have blue Harbor well soon as we built that Green Bay came along and build a water park water parks are easy right to to build What in your plan will make it unique in such a way that people will want to come and not compete with should like right? It's an excellent question and I wish it would be great if they were just like one simple answer I can say well, this is what you have You have a variety of assets that other communities don't I mentioned the sugar property But you also have the sheboygan river and you have the lakefront you have that amazing downtown that has Undergone so much change in the last decade. You have the riverfront and the lakefront on top of that You have your location within the state of Wisconsin. You are ideally suited be there ideally situated geographically between Milwaukee the Fox cities Green Bay and Dorr County You also have a significant amount of existing assets within the district you have a pretty significant health care and medical Presence you have Incredibly strong school districts you have a level of quality of life or a quality of life Quality of life indicators that surpass most communities in the Midwest as I believe money magazine or was it money Steve? I believe money magazine recognized The level of education the level of income the General demographic The city of Sheboygan has an interesting balance of demographic of demographic groups from an age standpoint Most communities are trending very very very rapidly towards an older population The city of Sheboygan actually has a relatively even dispersal of the various age groups Planners and demographers know that the fastest growing demographic group in the country is 80 and over octogenarians We also know that the baby boom generation which has been the most significant player in the development of this country over the last 45 years Is going to play an equally significant role as it goes through retirement one of the things we talked about very early in this process is the the the state of American cities and villages and towns today To a great degree Exists specifically because of that generation from 1946 until 1964 the number of schools that we have the number of parks that we have suburbs The road network those aren't decisions that somebody made because they were good or bad or they made sense from a planning Those are those are all a direct result of the baby boom generation Well now that generation is entering retirement age, so it's going to place a different kind of It's The role that that generation plays in the local level is going to be significant, but in a much different way So when we see a place like the city of Sheboygan We look at the fact that you have the natural resources that you have that you're close proximity to Milwaukee You're close to the Fox cities Those are the kinds of things that are attractive to young families to educated the educated creative class as a gentleman named Richard Richard Florida would describe and to readies and and empty nesters Most of the communities that will be competing with you and against you don't have all of those assets Some of them have a few but very very few in the state of Wisconsin has it have everything that Sheboygan has now We've had this discussion on going throughout this process What you just heard me say is not something that you hear me say when I'm working with the village of Ashwabana, for instance It's another one of my clients. They have assets that you don't possess and it's a big stadium It's called Green Bay or it's called Lambeau Field and they have a little football team that plays there That's something that cannot be replicated in the state of Wisconsin as you pointed out the Tunder Lodge Which is just down the street from Lambeau Resulted from the increased demand for water parks in the state of Wisconsin in the Midwest just like golf courses We have more golf courses than we have golfers We're getting close to having more water parks than we have people who can play and swim in them Those water parks that are situated in those communities that have all those other assets are the ones that are going to survive So when you look at Blue Harbor and you look at its location on the lake And you look at its location on the river and all these other assets of the city of Sheboygan has long term Blue Harbor will probably do well All those assets that will Allow Blue Harbor to do well or what will allow this master plan or more more accurately the development in this district to succeed and to thrive So I can't say these are the three things that are going to make this work and Prevent those other communities. I mentioned the other communities in neighborhood from competing against you But the city of Fondle Act does not have this anywhere in the city anywhere within the periphery Port Washington doesn't Meshwaben and certainly doesn't they have a whole different set of assets So I apologize for the fact that's kind of a long-winded long long-winded rambling response But there's nothing quite it's just not as simple The this that and the other that differentiate Sheboygan. There's just a variety of factors. What I will say is everything that I just Articulated is articulated much more clearly and much more effectively in the planet itself So we lay out all the market basis for this the things that differentiate Sheboygan for other communities the demographic differences the Existing businesses the existing land uses and such Any other questions? Okay. Thank you Jeff Sanders and thank you very much my air very much Maybe this would take a minute to discuss we want to make a recommendation as committee the whole as to this plan That's the next point of action Any input from us Or from city planning what you'd like us to say if you want to whether we approve well Well, we're with or not, but if you have some suggestions of how you'd like to be coming forward All the course in months. We are. Thank you, Madam Chairman Do we need to make a motion to move forward with a pot with a favorable recommendation? to the council Well, Steve mentioned the record that they would like a recommendation from us I guess we can say you don't want to do it as well, but Then I will so move so moved a recommendation to do what to move forward with a resolution to Present this to the council with a favorable recommendation that the council approves Accepting this master plan It's moved and seconded to accept this master plan as presented this evening. Yes, okay And it's been seconded any discussion. I just would just comment I think one of the things that I think is that that's my question was you know What's the life of this plan and any of your question to all the person wants me or It's not that we're committing funds At this point where we're not committing funds and it's a concern of some citizens that we might be committing funds to this Project when we are so strapped, but it is to accept the plan and concept Any other comment on that Yes So these plans I Think you alluded to Steve so if we did if we recommended or accepted this plan, how would city development work with it? What you have drawings and what would you do then with it? How would you work with it? Into the city or anyone who's interested we know the plan we have a document that shows development is uncertain There's always risks and development the developer likes to come in and not just Go through your city just aimlessly kind of looking for things we can provide the documentation Whether it's this plan whether it's the hardest sentiment master plan whether it's a self-care plan and say here are some I opportunities that have been Identified by staff by back up by the common council that shows certainty to these developers that if they're looking in certain Areas that the risk in developing those areas is less and therefore more likely to see some type of development or redevelopment So from our perspective, that's how I use it And that's how our staff was gonna use it as people come in when they leave instead of just talking We can visit to give them a document that they can refer to and take it back Remember they need to discuss it further and then it's just like many of the other things the Highland house the grandstay Utilize those documents and eventually come in with the development proposal. Thank you all that enters And if I could just mention as well that it's not only on the reactive side But it's also proactive because this area definitely needs, you know, that's why we undertook this master planning process was a Redevelopment plan as well as a development plan. So we'll be looking at the the alternatives that Will hopefully be adopted by the common council and then taking a Potentially a proactive approach which involves committees redevelopment authority common council. So, you know, it's it's always You know, we work as staff They said in a in a reactive way if someone comes in to us, but we also try to act to act Proactively, but then if we are going to expend any type of funds or make decision, it always comes back to this group Okay, before we vote on it Does Omni have any other role to play in this a part of the do that will they come back for chapter 9? Is it what is this chapter 9 is us? This is actually once adopted if there aren't any modifications that need to be made This is the end of their contract with the city Yes Okay Thank you Well, then I think we have a resolution to adopt what we Was presented this evening as a plan For the city to the development of Taylor Heights area and they use it as a guide and we have a second on that So we'll take a roll call vote on this I think I'm not sure what the rules, but would you say we need a roll call? I think voice will be fine We can do it all we need a roll call. Okay. Let's do a roll call them. We know okay. All right Ida man kath Kittleson Clayunas I Not me are Under flesh votes. I Siric Vander wheel who Longamon 11 eyes. Thank you passes unanimously. Thanks very much everybody. I just want to remind Everyone before we adjourn that the next meeting the whole meeting will be August 4th We've changed the date August 4th would be the day after the Common Council meeting on August 3rd And it will be at 5 o'clock Instead of 5 30 and we will be dealing with the it presentation which the mayor requested and Immediately after that is the national night out For the city as well. So that's what we're doing in 5 o'clock Okay, so adjourn move to adjourn Second okay, we're adjourned. Thanks very much everybody for coming out