 My name is Neil Grindley and I'm the Director of Content and Discovery Services at JISC. My two colleagues are also from JISC. In fact, we all work in the same area within JISC. We all work in Digital Resources Directorate and we all work in the Content and Discovery space. I'm just sure I can advance my slides. We've got some information up there about what we are aiming to do within the Content and Discovery area within JISC. We've got there about empowering, learning, teaching and research, making scholarly resources more available and discoverable. There's another iteration of that in the mission in terms of also including this idea that we use technology to connect people. We want to connect people to the right content at the right time in ways to drive forward learning and teaching. I should say as well that within the Content and Discovery area in comparison with the other areas of licensing and open research services that we work very closely with, our area is very much geared towards supporting arts and humanities and we have a sort of natural skew towards that in terms of the services that we provide. And we're also all the time working very closely with the libraries and archives and those who manage collections and so DCDC is a very good fit for us and where we work in JISC. We work a lot with HE, we also have colleagues who work in FE as well so we do work across that space. And I just want to frame some of what we're talking about here as well by giving you a bit of sort of latest thinking that we're doing in JISC. I think it would be fair to say that in the past we have thought perhaps a little too rigidly in terms of the demarcation between research and teaching and learning. We're certainly recently now as a result of our thinking around the pandemic and the impact it's had in terms of the kind of pivot to digital and the increased focus on hybrid and blended learning and the whole kind of teaching and learning piece generally. We've been having conversations in JISC where we're thinking more in terms of it being a spectrum now and those kind of barriers or fences between research, teaching and learning kind of being lowered. And we're thinking very much in terms of those who work in research where they also teach as well and they're learning and the kind of teaching that they do fees in the research. So it's more of a kind of symbiotic sort of relationship between these things rather than the way that we thought about them in the past and the way that we sort of tried to design our services to kind of deliver to full research or and think teaching a separate. So this is very timely in terms of, well, we want to be thinking more about how our activities within JISC can support and serve this function of learning and teaching with our existing resources as well as with new products and services that we can support. So, as a response to COVID-19 as well last year we undertook this landmark activity called learning and teaching reimagined. I just wanted to say a few words about that before we talk about some of the things. So, some of you may have come across this I hope you have. The report was released in November last year. And it is available and there's a link at the top of the screen. And it's not just a report there are other resources as well as as primer guides as you see below and an advice and guidance for across the learning and teaching spectrum so so please do take a look at that if you haven't. Let's say as guides for senior leaders there. And I'm not going to run through all of these recommendations one by one but in terms of word for word but just kind of pick out you know what they're getting at here and that first one is about, you know, getting leadership buy into effect digital transformation and the second one says that there needs to be a rethink on budgets and so these recommendations are quite kind of fundamental they're quite sort of big and you might say obvious. But I think that speaks to the fact that there's a big shift going on here and so these quite bold statements about okay institutions need to rethink what they're spending their money on in terms of a logical sensible response to COVID and a post pandemic kind of learning and teaching environment. So then that goes on to highlights major threats cyber security that comes with a paradigm shift towards digital. The fourth and fifth ones they emphasize that blended learning is the future and I think Karen talking about more about blended learning as a definition. And then the other recommendations there's there's one about inclusivity and accessibility very appropriate for some of the themes of this conference. There's one that talks about the digital skills agenda and how that needs to be a lot of focus on and back to that kind of theme in a minute. We have to keep learning and undertaking research on the changing digital preferences as we go this is, you know, we, as I said, we're in this paradigm shift we've got to be kind of reflective as we go and not just kind of think okay well there's a series of measures that need to be inactive here is this is more wrong going process and that it sits on a learning cycle of okay we'll try this and if that's the work we'll try something else. And then my last one is is about more funding to alleviate digital poverty so these are the kinds of big themes that certainly just as forming what we do and how we think and how we think sectors should think. So, those are sort of, I suppose, more general kind of themes about learning and teaching and obviously we're here at DCDC conference we need to consider what all this means for content and collections and libraries and articles galleries and museums. So what does this accelerated shift mean in that context. So I'm going to next be talking about actions to make hidden collections more visible and touch upon making more content available than Karen and power also be taking on these things as well. So one of the activities that I'm thinking about and have been thinking about for a few years really is related to something called the National Library of Knowledge Base. And our suite of services called the library hub. What we've been exploring here with with this work, I mean that set of services that aggregates library data and is a scary platform but thinking about that data and how it works and the complex ecosystem behind this bibliographic metadata supply chain has been very challenging and we've been working and facilitating a national conversation around that, not just with libraries but with data suppliers and intermediary organizations. We've done some work to kind of estimate what cost to the libraries of managing library metadata is and sector-wide, just for the management of it, that's not necessarily, you know, including the purchase of data. We think it's between 15 and 20 million a year, so that's quite significant. But there's a lot of duplication of effort within that ecosystem, within that data marketplace, a lot of inefficiencies. And what we would like to do with an initiative called Plan M that we've been having a solitaire conversation around is to try and reduce that duplication and so that expertise can be redeployed. What I'm talking about there is the expertise within institutions around, you know, the information is done as an alternative to if we can make some inroads into reducing the amount of effort on routine cataloging. So write down the time spent describing objects or concepts other people have already described, as Light says there. Then the, you know, the destination would be free uptime to allow those information specialists to tackle the description of more obscure objects or difficult objects or as it listed there, underrepresented cultural artifacts or non-English language material. So, you know, there is a whole, as you all know, as people who manage collections and work in libraries and archives and museums, there are letters and manuscripts and diaries and photographs and drawings and maps and musical scores that are undescribed and undiscoverable here. And previously we've been thinking in terms of that being an end in itself and getting those hidden collections, if you like, out there, purposes of research. But with this shift, this big paradigm shift, this big kind of conceptual movement towards thinking about learning and teaching, then we need to think a step further than that as well and align content with curricula and what we're digitizing those objects when you think about, you know, how do we put wrappers around them so that it's easy for those who are doing learning and teaching to pick these things up and use them. And then deep open licenses around them so that these objects can sit on and be delivered via platforms that deliver open educational resources. So this is kind of tracing back a kind of initiative to try and free up resource in order that it can be kind of focused elsewhere and so that we can get some of this material, some of the rich and valuable content out there for the purposes of learning and teaching. I have got some fairly complicated questions sitting on this slide, but I'll just have them sitting there and I think at this moment I'll take a breath, which I should have done after all I'm running off to get my power game. And see if anyone has any comments or points that they want to raise at this point. I'm able to power if you may have been keeping an eye on the chat. Oh Neil, I'm doing your chat actually. Oh yes, I'm not very interested in arrangements already. So I'm very interested because some of the work, not that I'm talking about today in great depth but I'm really interested about digital skills across all levels, and how we can support learners in that and I just wanted to really pick your brains a little bit about your second provocation there about even if the metadata ecosystem can be streamlined and resources freed up to information specialists with institutions have a sufficient range and depth of skills and if they don't what can be done to kind of up skill in that area. I mean, I kind of wax and wane on on on this a little bit even even this morning. I was listening to one of the other easy easy talks about the British Research Institute abroad. I was hearing the, you know, the great work that they were describing in terms of how they're doing their metadata management and how they're linking that up to to what link data and using Viath and identify systems and, you know, they painted this sophisticated picture of how they're working and what their aspirations are. And I was thinking then well, you know, that all sounds great. There's there's doesn't seem to be any kind of to not many barriers or shortage of skills there. But then I know when, when the presenter reprised that she talked about well, but then there's issues around digital preservation that we still need to look into. And when you start sort of picking it apart you just kind of realized that yes there's a lot of skills, a huge amount of skills and expertise within the sector but that there are pockets of some was blind spots. And I think that when we did some work with the TNA a year or two back to to ask archives and archivists about digital skills. The issue that emerged across the piece was was challenging in terms particularly in terms of the resources that smaller are those have in their kind of their digital capacities. So, it's sometimes kind of difficult to get an accurate picture of what challenge appears but I think my feeling is that what we need to do there, particularly for the less well resourced institutions and, and I think the likes of just can, and TNA and other kind of sector bodies needs to should be trying to pick that up. And I think we, you know, getting input from the community around how best to do that best to support that because it's not straightforward with very useful. And in the chat from we have controlled vocabularies, who should they be written by. Oh, control vocabularies. My feeling is that control vocabularies need to be written by or need to be written in a fashion that is sustainable. In fact, after need to be maintained and owned and promoted and and pushed out by a hopefully a community or consortium of entities that that really kind of get behind them. There's a really answer perhaps but I think it speaks to this idea that that's, you know, it's, I think we've all seen, you know, proliferations of well I suppose persistent identifies is what I'm talking about different persistent identify schemes as they've almost been like religions over time where some people like arts and like handles and we all swear by DOIs and I think it needs controlled authority vocabularies and that ilk need buying and need communities to get behind and to follow up to that is and indeed, and keeping them current and relevant over time which takes a substantial amount of resource and international perspectives too. Indeed, so time is marching on we've got other bits other presentations more presentation to get into should we power, are you ready to leap in and take over and I'll drive your slides. Yes, thank you, Neil. Hello. Good afternoon everybody. I'm just following on from Neil and we'll talk a little bit about a program that we are exploring were conceptualizing now. It very much fits in with what Neil was talking about in terms of us thinking about ways of making content and collections more available. Perhaps to the renewed focus on teaching and learning, as opposed to our more traditional emphasis on research and the initiative I'll talk about is very much about maximizing the use of special and archival collections in teaching and learning. So I'll talk about the program a program of work that we are exploring with publishers. So it's a partnership with potential partnership with publishers of digital primary source archives or collections. I'll talk a little bit differently refer to and how we can create new resources by making the most of collections that reside in the within the UK library and UK universities library and archives and museums collections. This is confirmed yet. So this is very much at an idea stage. We are going through various processes we want to see if publishers are interested indeed in that in working with disk. And if they are, we will have to go through various procurement processes and various steps internally, we would have to make a business case for resources to invest. But we saw that I saw that this this opportunity would be a good one to get people's feedback as we are conceptualizing the program. So next slide please. What what is it as I said it's a proposal at this stage. And it's a program of activities that is very much aimed at leveraging the UK universities. So I'm referring primarily to libraries archives and museums collections to create new digital resources for teaching learning and certain extent research. But it's also about trying to identify a sustainable model so that we can do more of this and lower barriers to content, content creation and content access. And the model that we're looking at is based on a current pilot. It's a current collaboration between Jisk and Wiley, the global publisher in creating a major history of science collections. So you'll see that's a screenshot of what we have created with Wiley. It's a collection that is going to be about a million pages of a million items. So big scale collections of million digitized items from the archives of the British Association for the advancement of science and over 10 unique UK university partners. The collection is available for free to all just members and just members and affiliates so that includes a lot of the major glam organizations and national libraries. And the collection is already accessible so for those of you a little plug. If you're interested in knowing more about this. You can find you can come and visit us at the history day session on Wednesday afternoon. But the key elements of the programs would be that we would aim to work with just members so university archives libraries museums and the academic community to identify new content for digitization under an agreed theme. I think that we will have to work out how we do that. Jisk and the publisher will then come best into the creation of this new resource. The resource will then be freely available to all just members as I said that includes affiliates so we'll branch out outside of the UK higher and further education sector. And then we'll get into glam organizations and hopefully I would like to look into access for public libraries. After a period of time so we're talking years at the collection would become openly available globally so we really have that kind of long term aim in mind in terms of opening up access really as much as possible. So based on this model. Jisk would then recoup part of its investment from a sales outside of the UK so that then that would enable us to put more investment into the creation of new more resources. Next slide please. So those are the key elements but in terms of the reason why we're doing this. It's really driven by a number of reasons. Neil mentioned this to the renewed interest in online and blended learning that's definitely one of the things that we think that what we see coming on the horizon. It's also driven by our members and what we have heard from a lot of the libraries that we work with about the cost of content. So a lot of the university libraries will purchase this kind of collections that are typically produced by commercial publishers to digitize the archives within libraries. And then of course sell it back to the academic markets. And we know that a lot of libraries are struggling with the cost of content, because of course from their point of view they're having to balance this also with purchasing textbooks and expensive journal subscriptions, and so on. We also know that of course there is a desire from institutions to digitize more and more of their jewels, their collections, but large scale projects digitization projects as we know are very expensive and they demand budget and resources and those are difficult to find within core budgets in an institution. And also something quite interesting that we've heard this feedback from purchasing libraries is that often there is a feeling that in existing commercial products that is a strong emphasis perhaps on content that is is more aimed at the US market so there is an intention here of so perhaps rebalancing a bit some of what is available commercially on with UK content. And yes, and finally increase demand on for content for online and blended learning so we want to make sure that there is enough. There is enough material to support the teaching and learning and not just research area which of course is more traditional audience for this kind of material. Final slide next slide. And so in terms of our overall outcomes. As I said we're still thinking conceptualize in the program. So what we're hoping to to achieve is to support the teaching and learning area to lower barriers to access of content and to empower and democratize access. To offer just members and and the academic community a chance to influence what is being digitized what is being created what ends up being in the market. And to support the unlocking of the excellent collections unique and rare collections that are in our libraries and archives. And also, and that's an important thing for us to really look at different models. I mean people might remember a few years back when just used to be a main founder of digitization programs and we're not working in that way anymore so we're going to try we're really trying to find different ways of resourcing the creation of content in a more sustainable way. And final slide. So this is the end so these are the ideas for our program. And of course, be happy to answer any questions but I also had a couple of questions in mind where for areas where I would really be interested in people's feedback here. And it's primarily around this notion of community engagement in identifying content prioritize for digitization. So this program is not just about producing more digital files is not just about the outputs. It's also about devising a mechanisms to engage with the collection owners and the specialist, and also with the ultimately the users the main beneficiaries the researchers that the teachers the learners in having an input into what they feel we should prioritize what kind of themes and how we should go about identifying content. And in the current pilots with with Wiley we were quite limited by the time constraints that we had. But essentially we put out a call an open call to all the university libraries and archives. So university libraries archives and museums, asking for their own selection so asking them to put forward collections under the broad theme of the history of science, and then sort of engaged a board and academic advisory group to help prioritize those collections. So, yes, I'd be interested in any ideas you might have into around what you think would be successful engagement and what kind of mechanisms would work. And I have finished here. Thank you. Thank you very much, Paula. Yeah, I mean this could be the start of the conversation that we need to take forward in terms of this work. We do have some points raised in the chat. She may or may not feel like we're able to take now but some. We'll give them a go to me. Maria Gayton is talking about we're becoming more aware of the ecological cost of storing digital material, easy millions of items stored indefinitely takes a lot of energy. Especially if it's students download and store material rather than using it live from your source. Can you comment on the difficulty of curating material down to a manageable size. Oh dear. So let me understand this I'm just rereading it. Yeah, sorry material. Million items. Using it live from your source I think it's a question it's a kind of question about almost how to manage large amounts of material and whether we can do that at source or whether the students have to do that locally and Yes, I think so the collections as I'm thinking about the Wiley collection and I think in general how these collections work. The material is stored within the delivery platform of the publisher and it's really up to it depends really on the use that users need to make want to make up of the material. And so there is the option obviously of just working from the platform and looking at material on the platform without having to download it locally. Or indeed, if users want to or need to download it locally for example for text and it's a mining purposes then those would be, I suppose the use cases for for replicating you know having a replica having to host a replica of the material which I think would be just for a temporary amount of time, you know to support that piece of research so I think the idea would be to not necessarily create a lot of different instances of storing the material locally. If that yeah. Yeah, thanks and then and Jane students and help me put something in the chat as well. Jane also works at just and she's saying that we do have people within just looking at green computing and specifically energy use within the cloud so that's a bit of a watch this space and certainly in the office hub is is working with colleagues and just on that. Judy Berg has put some commentary in about when we spoke of the purpose of content for learning and teaching and to an extent research. She's pointing out that the the uses for learning and teaching can be you know selected and selective and for research needs comprehensive or complete and so. So, the other there's, I guess there's, as you know, as you're thinking about you know the different types of purpose for this. Yes, you're absolutely right and spot on and this is always the the conundrum isn't it. Can we create a resource that really is fulfills both the teaching and learning and the research use. At the moment, I don't know exactly. I mean just, you know, as just we don't necessarily have already, you know, established view of how resource would be created. I suppose there are to a certain extent for me it's also what is made of content so the content is content and researchers might use it in a certain way, and teachers might take part of it and use it in a different way. I suppose I am thinking perhaps of tools or wraparounds or support functions and features that might make a collection that is good for research in terms as you were saying of completeness of extent of scope. So perhaps help make a collection like that also useful and usable for teaching and learning. So for example, a few years ago we worked with the welcome trust. Well, sorry, welcome collections in digitizing a huge resource around the history of medicines in the 19th century. And so that was a massive massive database of titles of books and pamphlets. And then on top of that we developed some visualizations that were providing in ways and parts into that that that massive amount of content so I'm hoping that these are also the kind of tools to be able to work on with, you know, an advisory group with the publishers themselves. But yes, I think it's one of the key things to be aware of, so that we don't create and are creating a resource that is neither good for research nor for teaching and learning. And Maria has just replied to Jane there saying as a local authority archive we're constantly pressurized to digitize more material but really it's not worth it for materials which may then be used once or twice. That applies specifically to each researcher who spotted it. So thanks for that as a good conversation going on there. Thank you. We've maybe got just one more, one or two more minutes before we go to Karen. I mean, we've been working on with Wiley on the program for a few years now. And so we've got some experience with this work and what's gone well and what's maybe not gone quite so well. Yes, I mean with the Wiley project we're still in the middle of it because of the pandemic and the lockdown things slowed down last year because obviously the Wiley team couldn't simply couldn't go into archives and make selections and archives were closed. So that was a major challenge for us. But nonetheless, and of course with lockdown, they work with different contractors for the digitization of the content for the enrichment of content so these different offices and operations were closed at some point, conservators, and so on. So that was really the main challenge as well as, as we know, the legality of things and copyright and licensing and making sure that institutions themselves had the permissions and the license and the rights to sub license the content to Wiley and then to JISC. That was sometimes a bit of a, not difficult but sort of a little bit more time consuming process. But on the other hand, despite the challenges, a lot of aspects of this project have worked really well and that's why we're looking to replicate it. So, we've been overwhelmed by the amount of contents that institutions have submitted, much more than we could digitize, we could do about three projects like this, digitizing a million pages of content. I think it'd be fair to say that from the Wiley's point of view, they also got a lot of intelligence into what content is available within the community that if it is not suitable for this particular project that they might follow up for other projects. There's been a lot of engagement, we've had a lot of good coverage within the community, the press, the higher education press, there's been a lot of support and a lot of take up. I mean, from a JISC point of view members, we've got about over a hundred institutions and I would encourage anybody who is eligible to take up a free subscription to the JISC resource. Nice little push there. There are a couple of more questions. Should we just try and get to them very quickly? Which platform did you use to design the Wiley Digital Collections webpage? Wiley already has a platform where they deliver all the digital archives, so they just created another instance of that same platform and so they can roll out all the different features that they have for every collection in a kind of seamless way. We didn't create a specific platform for that. And the last one before we go to Karen is are you worried about creating different silos of information when working with different publishers and platforms? What are your plans for that? Yeah, that's a really good point actually. Yes, we haven't got to that stage yet, but you can see how, yes, if we did this very much a program that we want to work on over the next three years, so we might have two to three publishers. That's an interesting point. It's up to us to think about that. I mean, we could do something like, at the very least, enable people to cross-search the metadata across all the publishers and the collections that we create. So, yes, I guess that that's an area that we need to think about. Thanks for that question and thanks to all those questions. So, yeah, let's move on with the slide deck on how would you want to take over kind of a chairing duties? Yes, I will. So I'm just going to pass on to Karen for the last presentation. So I'm going to be talking about emerging trends in learning teaching for vocation, skills-based qualifications, and to start with a statement which is the content requirements of a vocational course, educational course, are shaped by the specifics of the industry it supports. And this is whether it's in further education or higher education. Work readiness is also highly important, though this may not always be addressed as part of the academic requirements of the course. And so in this final session, I'm going to focus on the learning and teaching requirements of the sector of higher education in the UK and how various crises and changes are fundamentally reshaping approaches to learning. So earlier this year, I'm just conducted research to understand the content needs and requirements and skills of vocational provision. Governance for education is devolved across the four nations with the Department of Education responsible for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland took look Parliament and assembly. And so the discovery phase focused on regulation and provision in England, but some core findings may be applied more widely across all the nations, and we will explore this in further phases of the work. So according to the British Council report, the UK skills system and introduction UK, it's important learners have high quality skills to contribute to the global economy and future prosperity of the UK. The University's UK report recovery skills, knowledge and opportunity of vision for universities states 800,000 highly qualified and skilled graduates are provided yearly by universities, almost half of vocational and technical and directly informed by employer needs. Next slide Neil. Government research, including the review of shortage occupation list 2020 to put together a long list of key subjects where there are skills shortages that reach beyond level three into level four, four and six, which is foundation undergraduate and decree and decree apprenticeships in the UK. We then broke this down further to a smaller list before we chose to focus on construction and healthcare. We chose these because both are undergoing rapid change and face potential staff and skills shortages due to social, political and technical factors. This in turn may change the curriculum, and therefore content requirements for vocational courses, putting pressure on skill sets infrastructure and budgets for institutions providing these courses. This is to understand the scope of higher education courses in these subject areas, using data from UCAS, the university's colleges admission service and membership of UVAC the university vocational awards council. And according to this we identified that we were about 400 courses related to construction and 1000 related to healthcare. We then asked research into the requirements to the subject area and an investigation into the types of content being used. We interviewed librarians from 10 universities that have a high volume of courses, or are innovating in their subject areas, such as those who are working with building firms or with innovators. So I'm not sure who will be aware of the UK architect and TV presenter George Clark, but he found it's something really interesting called Moby M O B I E in 2017, and that aims to address education from BTEC right through to PhD and construction in the built environment, both private providers at BTEC levels such as Pearson, right up to universities for PhD at Northumbria. And we interest you interviewed them as well as accrediting bodies, a C I O B for construction and National Midwifery Council for nursing to get an idea of both what was happening in the institutions and also possibly at the accrediting body stage. Next slide, Neil. So I just want to put forward a few questions that you can maybe address in the chat and I'll come back to at the end of my session. And so one of the things I want you to think about is, what factors do you think might be affecting the uptake of occasion based higher education courses in the UK. We based our research just on construction and health care and even within health care that such a vast subject we actually really focus mainly on adult nursing. But even within that there are things that I could see that we're emerging such as, you know, skills shortages for nurses different demographics. But I'd be interested to hear what you think might be some of the factors which might be affecting this. Next slide Neil. So, I think a lot of us, you know, there are lots of definitions of blended learning. I think we know a lot of them, but I wanted to reflect on this in terms of vocational education. So blended learning that makes a face to face digital engagement to rich learning outcomes. Next slide Steve, Steve, sorry, we named you Neil. Next slide please. Because of the pandemic this past year has seen a rapid pivot to online students have had to either, they've had either no or limited campus interaction or access to key resources or physical areas such as labs. And while many courses we have already been offering a blended approach pandemic force tutors to integrate digital more fully into their curriculum. And if you apply this to more practical based subjects such as nursing or construction, you can start to see how blended learning may have advantages and disadvantages. So I'd like to go on to my next slide. So what are the advantages and disadvantages of blended learning for for vacation based courses. And just to get you thinking about some of the things you know there has been rapid change in terms of people being able to physically work with materials. And that may mean that invocational subjects that that means that the digital doesn't really give them the experience that they need to have. Next slide Neil. And finally I wanted to really look at the role of content and tools invocation based courses. And in some ways that this was one of the major point parts of what we were looking at because we wanted to kind of see what kind of content was being used, how it was being acquired, what kind of access models. And also who's responsible for acquiring that content and our publishers offering the correct type of materials and our current acquisition models fit for purpose. The research showed there's a divide in responsibility within institutions for the provision of both physical and digital content tools and resources to support vocational studies. The library will generally buy materials that are used campus wide and will be bought at an institution level. So for example, British standards online is seen as being used across a number of disciplines more niche immersive or subject specific materials are often left to the schools within the institution to buy. So something like online anatomy digital tools, clinical key or clinical skills.net may not be acquired centrally by the library. This, of course, is not always the case but the accelerated flip to digital is opening up discussions of where responsibilities lie. Acquisition and access models for subject specific content may also not suit institution policies or governance. Single user access to skills based content is more prevalent across providers, and that creates administrative and security concerns. If materials bought at school level, they may not have the expertise to integrate them into the library systems or understand implications of contracts terms and conditions. Rapid change in these subject areas will require flexible models and agile production of content to support changing curriculum, or even access to the physical spaces. For example, do online medical resources really take into account areas such as skin tone. And as I mentioned at the beginning, as well as the academic learning journey to come qualified work readiness is also really important. So for construction, this might involve access to construction build contract templates that they will only really use when they enter employment. And there is a discussion amongst institutions as to where that buy should be, whether it should be in the library or whether it should be in the schools because it's seen as outside of the core academic curriculum. And in healthcare, general numeracy to deal with drugs, dosage, etc. There will be to be where that might be bought as well. So resources like this challenge responsibilities and budgets to acquire them, as maybe viewed as outside of the academic course needs. Next slide, Neil. So my final question is, how can we maximize availability use of content and tools of vacation based learning? You know, how can we make acquisition models work for skills based materials? How can we make them more agile? So I'm planning to look at the greater need to support students in their learning journey as they might be flipping in and out of employment, particularly with some areas such as nursing. So what I'm planning to do is to use the outcomes of the discovery phase to contact to conduct further interviews and build use cases around the content needs and learn support for students engaged in skills based qualifications. So I'm going to put up conversations on who's responsible for acquisition and governance of content to identify where content needs are shifting. So you'll note out here much more from me over the coming year, but I'll open it up to any questions. Thank you very much. Karen is definitely a very broad and complex area. I don't have any thoughts about a comment that one of our audience posted about saying, I don't know, might just be my experience, but I found that there was a lack of career guidance at key stage four when when they were at school. So it wasn't so much about and there wasn't so much information about what kind of jobs were out there and nor what kind of vocational qualifications. There were. I wonder if we if anything in the research that that you did pointed also to an issue with bridging sort of the information between that key stage four and the next progression into potentially vocational studies. Well, if my research into what's on UCAS and the types of courses and descriptions available even within the two subjects areas that I was in as anything to go by there is a vast amount out there. I haven't specifically done research into how people are moved towards our prospects within part of just they do work around that area. There has been something that has been addressed more in, you know, in the last few years potentially but it's not something that I specifically looked at for this discovery phase but is, we are looking at how we can support students and part of that may well be how can we sign post them in in the first place so thank you for bringing up that comment. Yeah, yeah, might just be something about working with schools as well as with the vocational content providers. While we wait for other questions to come through. I was wondering Karen if we might just back the track to something you said about the Brexit situation and and whether you have any insights or any views on how Brexit might affect the uptake of vocational courses. I think, I think, I think Brexit and also you know that sort of labor migration is having an effect, possibly maybe not so much in the undergraduate level. But certainly at foundation level or into that sort of Effie into he space. So, you know that that sort of more skills level as well we're obviously there are, you know, we were hearing in the news every day that you nationals for example, you know the cut off day is coming. And so, you know, and that there are supply chain issues. There's something on the news I read last week about there being a shortage of hairdresser apprenticeships which are maybe pre level four. I think there is a real shortage that might be coming in some areas and it may affect more, more subjects more than others. Nursing has a very high drop out from courses. And also, we know the great pressure that everybody's in within the NHS and and there will be dropouts from from that as well. So I think all things like that will affect it but also there, there is that idea that that there may be a positive effect of uptake in that people may be looking to re skill because of because of Brexit and the effect that may have had on the jobs that they had already. Yes, that's right. And I wonder how this whole issue about Brexit and in general the uptake of resources. How does that relate to the online and blended learning that has we're going towards in terms of advantages and disadvantages again. If anything perhaps emerge from from your research thinking digital poverty this kind of issues about access to technology. Certainly so and so in, you know, in skills based a lot of the courses there will be a little physical element to it whether you're in a, you know, construction environment, which is a physical lab or if you're a medical student and you have a dissection room. You know, you know, covert, you know, shut down access to a lot of those things and meant that they had to be available online. But then that would mean that there would be disadvantages to students where the, you know, the advantage would be that there may be more content online. It would be that that content wasn't quite suitable to the needs that they would that would be fulfilled in the sort of physical environment, and also the fact that for skills based courses, if people are actually then trying to access it within their work environment, you'd have Wi-Fi in their work environment to do it within the NHS there's a lot of firewall issues and getting access to content. So I think there there was a, you know, there was more material that was put online and one of the things I did find from the interviews is that quite a lot of the library said we're not going back. We are firmly in blended learning and we want to make sure that we have the content and resources to, you know, to support, you know, courses at all stages.