 Hey, Gulfconn Giants family, your host, Eric Coffey here today. Today's guest for this particular episode is Judy Bratt. Judy Bratt has written two books on the subject of government contracting that one of which helped me tremendously and getting some of the concrete information that I needed. It wasn't a lot of fluff, it was just direct info on program managers, nine people you should be talking to in government, and more. She's been in this space for 32 years and helped thousands of thousands of companies from solarpreneurs to multi-million dollar corporations. You're definitely going to want to check out this episode and hear how Judy came from Canada training Canadian firms that are winning US contracts for all those international people that are always asking me, Eric, how do I do US contracts? She started doing that some 30 plus years ago and that's what helped lead her to becoming the expert she is today. So stay tuned. Judy in fact is also going to be doing some coaching and training alongside of GovCon Giants. So we're looking forward to that as well. So again, take a look at this particular episode, listen, take notes, write it down. This is going to be one for the ages. By the way, we're still in the month of December. We are still offering the GovCon 1.0 course for those persons who may be a little bit tight on budget. We re-release 1.0 for those persons and because of the Christmas holidays we went ahead and threw in the latest two books that I have, GovCon Launch, as a bonus for those persons who buy it this month. GovCon Launch and Billion Dollar Playbook. So again, that's still out there. Visit our website for more information and details on that as well. And if you've not already picked up your copy of GovCon Launch or Billion Dollar Playbook, check it out on amazon.com or anywhere else where you find your latest and greatest books. Stay tuned for today's giant, Judy Brett. When I'm working with an individual company team for eight weeks, it's not a class, it's not a database, it's not really even a course. It's a company team that is dedicated to growing their federal business and understands they're ready to make the flip between looking at what can I bid and who's my buyer. Somebody who's ready and willing and understands the power of making that fundamental flip of the lens, they're my people. So these are folks that they've been around the block. They are, the owner is not billable. There is at least two people dedicated to federal sales and business development. The company is at least an eight, nine, or 10 out of 10 priority for growing their federal business. And they probably got more than a couple million in revenue already. So somebody who's there, they're my people. When somebody works with me, they do the three things they've got to do to be successful. And I'm always trying to find a more succinct way to say it. If I had to boil it down in an even more compact way, it is really focus, connect, win. Each of those has a subset. Focus is not only on two or three agencies, but it's also on the individual federal humans that are involved in buying in your part of the federal arena. So that's the focus part. The connect part is to know what to do and say and ask to be in front of the right person with the right message and information at the right time. And actually, so to know that in theory and actually do the thing, buck up, be brave, make the call. And the third bucket, win, is to understand that your first win is not the million-dollar win. It's not the micro-purchase win. Your first win is they return your phone call. They open your email. Your next win is the conversation where you feel that connection where you've made a difference for them because you've talked to that individual federal human about a thing that you know matters to them because you did your research in the focus stage. So you have some idea of what they're responsible for, what they buy, who they're in love with now. You've looked at them on LinkedIn. You've got a sense of, hey, what's happening with this person? Oh, they've been in the job a year. What did it feel like when I was in a job a year? Was I comfortable or uncomfortable? Did I really want to make my way or did I think I know it all? What could make a difference for this person in their job? Oh, this one. They've been in that job 22 years. I wonder if they're looking to make a move to a new agency. Maybe they're planning a career transition. What could be going on for them? And so you want to set up your win so that your person, your individual federal human knows that any time they hear from Eric, I got to return Eric's call. Eric is great. Eric sees me. Eric cares about me. Whatever it is Eric's got, I want some of it. He's always got something that he just always makes my day worthwhile. You want to be Eric. Nice. No, I like it. I like it. I feel like we've already started. Listen, why don't we go ahead and jump in and introduce yourself to the name of your organization. Hey Eric, I'm Judy Bratt. I'm CEO of Summit Insight and I work with folks who want to grow their federal business and really understand that they need to do something different and they want to figure out what that is because it should be easier. Now, Judy, I can tell you how I first came to know about you is through your book, Government Contracts Made Easier. I apologize for not having the second edition, but I do have the first edition all marked up. So I can tell you, and I probably own a dozen or so books. You're the only ones that looks like that. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Hey, what parts of it? Tell me, what are some of the parts of it that you got the most doggiered stickies? I'm curious. What parts of the first book made a difference for you? Let's go into my stickies and let's go with the stickies. All right. So right here, okay, on my stickies, I'm on page 20, Exercise 7, Critical Resources. All right, Required, Estimated Costs, Availability, where we're looking at the resources that you need. Successful companies get the Insight scoop on both the resources they need and where they could help from other companies and similar industries. Mm-hmm. Right? So that's like my first sticky. I think, and you know, I can tell you this from now speaking to hundreds of people and contracting, I feel like you could never say this enough. Right? I think so many of us, we assume because maybe we've done commercial work, we assume maybe because we've done, you know, a house flip or some house renovation that we could jump into the federal arena without having the proper resources. And so for me, I love this section because it talks about what exactly people need. Well, you know, Eric, you actually hit on something really important though. One of the biggest misapprehensions about the federal market is that somehow there's this elaborate kabuki and all these rules and some magic, magical process. And there are anyone who is successful in the federal arena, it's extremely rare for someone who is a freshly minted startup to then get on a multi-million dollar trajectory in the first 12 months. Typically, somebody who is successful in the federal arena has already had somebody pay you money for what you do. So you've got in the most generic sense past performance of some kind. Some people make the distinction between experience and capital P, capital P past performance, which is as a federal prime. I have a looser definition of past performance, but if you're successful in the federal market, you do need to appear to your prospective buyer that you're the low risk choice because federal buyers don't like risk. They're probably one of the most risk averse life forms on the planet, but your past performance, can you show them you've solved their problem for someone who looks just like them yesterday afternoon? Oh, that helps them breathe because they have everything on the line when they award work of any value to you. But cheer up. Someone who has a successful business, which is to say you are comfortable with what you do, you are competent at what you do, you are profitable at what you do. You have some idea of what your plans are to grow that business. Based on your experience, Eric, what percentage of the average business owner's business comes from strong relationships at the end of the day, whether it's federal, state, local, commercial? What percentage of business comes from relationships? To me, it's got to be above 90%. That's it. Okay. So if you are running, I will say this to everyone who's listening, if you are running a business and you know you're good at relationships, you can talk to people, people like you, you're excited about what you do, and you're relaxed and comfortable, you care about people, and you understand that your business comes from relationships, and if only you were in front of the right people, you'd be good. You have the most important wiring and commitment that it takes to be successful in the federal arena. Everything else you can learn. About 80% of what it takes to be successful in commercial is what it takes to be successful in federal. That 20%, that extra overlay of process and regulations, that's learnable. But true success means you never lose sight, never lose heart, never lose your grasp of the idea that there's no such thing as doing business with government. You heard me, there's no such thing as doing business with government. There's only doing business with people, real people with hopes and dreams and fears and performance evaluations and the desire to take care of their families and their futures, who have everything riding on whether or not their performance appraisal file looks perfect. No mistakes, no protests, no contractors gone wrong, but a perfect file. You as the contractor, they choose our part of their personal record of success or failure. You're part of what their management sees when they look in the file and go, gee, should we promote Eric or should we promote Jack? Who's got the strongest track record? Who's the one that is going to lead us to more success? You know what, I like that. And let me tell you, I actually made a note on your website where you wrote that there's still something that's doing business with the federal government. And I love that quote about how they say, how you write here, it says, many governments use databases to look for their next opportunity and can waste $1,000 in hours chasing work. That's opportunity illusion. Instead of asking, what can I bid, winners focus on the right questions, who's my buyer? That's because winners know you do business with people whose needs, fears and priorities aren't in those databases. You got it. I've put everything that's important right there in my website. Eric, you were talking about the first edition of my book. The second edition is now out and it's an Amazon number one bestseller. And my gift to you and your listeners is that you can pick up chapter one of that book for free right off my website. It's growfedbiz.com slash book. That's growfedbiz.com slash book. You can download the first chapter, which is all about strategy. So if you're thinking about whether or not you want to be in the federal market or in how to decide or whether to go deeper and what will it really take you, that chapter one is for you. I will say this. I definitely pick up my copy of the second book as much as I like the first book. By the way, I'm going to try to get Judy to sign my book because I'm a fan of hers as well. So definitely want to get a signed copy of my book, Judy. You know, everyone listening to this, you know, I do not or have ever promoted anyone, but I would say because of all the knowledge that I've gained from this particular book, I will stand behind Judy's second book and advocating as a supporter, as a reader of the first book. I can only imagine how much more content she has. And in the beginning, before we can get started, you said something, Judy, about the differences between the first book and the second book, and how it shows where you how you've evolved the last 10 years and your businesses. Yeah, the biggest difference I had really noticed this in between everything that I've learned in the last 10 years between the first edition and the second edition. You can see even before you open it in the first edition. I'm on the cover in the second edition. You're on the cover, which is to say my focus is on the individual federal humans in the federal arena. And that is the partnerships between government and industry in delivering missions and learning together and growing together. We're all in this together. And the biggest lessons I've learned over the last 10 years are understanding not just the mechanics, but what happens on the journey to building relationships between humans in the federal arena. And that's become the core of my practice. That's what sets what I do apart from everyone else that you'll talk to who's offering consulting coaching stuff in the federal arena. Now, Judy, can we go back and just talk about your story for a little bit? So people who don't know you, who don't know the book, and they say, well, why should I buy this person's book? And who is Judy Brad? And where does she come from? And what makes her so smart at knowing all this government contracting stuff? Well, you know, how I got to writing the book itself when I was chatting with a really lovely guy who'd been sent out from the Midwest to build some human capital business development in the federal arena. Lovely guy named Mike Oz Redker. And we were chatting and he'd been really doing his best and going to meetings and trying to figure out the market. You know, Judy, he said, selling to the federal government is like swimming in the ocean with no mile posts. I went, ooh, surely I can make it better for Mike. And it was that conversation that finally tipped me over into thinking, hey, I don't have anything new, anything different to say. And that conversation with Mike inspired me to just kick out of the doldrums and go, I need to get this done for Mike because there's more people like Mike out there. And that launched me on to one stage of the journey. But if I go back, I will always wanted to be a strategist. When I got out of business school, IBM, this was in the mid 80s, early 80s. And the PC was just coming off the slab out of the lab in Boca Raton. The face of computing was about to change forever. And IBM was hiring thousands of freshly minted business grads. And they said, Oh, yeah, sure, you're going to be a strategist. I said, Great. And it took me six months to realize that I was employed by the planet's largest sales organization. I was so horrified that I literally left the country. It took me two and a half years to figure out how to get out of IBM Canada in Toronto and figure out what I wanted to do next. But my next move ended up being leaving the computer industry, leaving my home in native land, leaving my family, leaving Canada and going down to the Canadian embassy in Washington DC, where Canada in the United States had just signed a free trade agreement that was a year from implementation. There was a new section on non defense government procurement. And I was learning about that literally one step ahead of the clientele. At that point, oh, yes, let's make our life really interesting. I also got married. Okay, so I spent my first wedding anniversary on Her Majesty's, not a specially secret service on a 14 stop road show, telling thousands of Canadian companies how to under the trade agreements sell to the US federal government. I had to talk for 25 minutes and answer five minutes of questions in every city, which worked out fine, because I only knew 31 minutes of anything, but it was 31 minutes more than they knew. And so over the next 15 years, I became Canada's top expert helping over 5,000 Canadian companies, went over $200 million in federal business. But I hit a point where I had run out of the ability to learn and grow and made a really tough decision to leave government service serving my country of birth and spread my wings. I knew I had more to learn, I had more to give. And well, I was not, my business wasn't terribly successful. Honestly, I always paid my bills, but I like you, I wanted to make a difference in the world. It wasn't for the money, but I really wish I could have made a little more profit out of the whole thing. That would have been nice. I didn't really have and this is important. I couldn't, I could tell you anything you wanted to know about how to win a federal contract of laws and regulations and this and that and small business programs. I could tell you anything you wanted to know. I got to the point where I'd written my first book. I could tell you anything you wanted to know except this one thing. How did anyone actually win the business? It wasn't that I didn't want to tell you. It was that I honestly didn't know, which was just fine. It didn't really matter till it really, really did. So in 2014, after I'd struggled, got up and down, I had this wonderful contract. Everybody had that contract of your dreams. This one was for a whole year. I was going to work with seven companies and help them with their strategy and their sales plan. I had enough margin. I could actually hire somebody to do some of that stuff in the training and the sales plan. This was going to be great. Ever do one of those contracts. It's front end loaded, all the stuff's on the front end and you just get a coast for most of the year. It was that contract. It was great. So I get to the end of the first two months and I say, all right guys, off you go. Good luck with that sales call. We'll check in next week. And they said, great. When are you making the introductions? I said, the what? They said the introductions. I said, no, no, no, no, no. They said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. They said, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I went through shock and anger and denial and there's some screaming in an empty room. And at this point, I had three big problems. First, I have a graduate degree. I don't make sales calls. I had spent 25 years avoiding sales calls and suddenly it was staring me right in the face because two, this was my only contract for the whole year. In the immortal words of Gene Kranz, failure was not an option. The third, I was terrified that I would be found out to be a fraud. I was an author. I worked, given thousands of presentations and I didn't know how to do this. And I had to pull up my big girl's socks and open my sales plan and pick up the phone. I was on the hook for thousands of calls and hundreds of introductions for 40 weeks, literally epic. And at first, it was awful. It was awkward. It was the one thing I was really, really afraid of that somebody would yell at me. Well, these federal public servants are not going to yell at me only once in thousands of calls. Did anybody say, don't ever call me again. You're not supposed to talk to me. One person. Everybody else. I was confused. They were kind. I was awkward. I lost my words. They didn't mind. They were happy to pawn me off on somebody else, pat me on the head, give me a cookie and send me in the right direction. And the breakthrough moment came. I was making calls for everything from backup generators the size of a city block and waterless shampoo, uninterruptible power supply, snap lock, glass containers for food, and my favorite root canal equipment. That's right. I was dialing for dollars for endodontics. And I was on the phone with Dr. Ned Robertson with the Indian Health Service in Penobscot, Maine. And Dr. Ned was telling me what he was doing on his Tuesday off. Dr. Ned was making curtains. And he was telling me about his nephew who had just got accepted into Georgetown Medical School. He was so proud of him. And, oh yeah, those guys from BNL Biotexture. He'll talk to them. Just set up a call. He hung up the phone. Oh, that was it. That was all I had to do. I just had to be patient for long enough to care what the heck colored curtains Dr. Ned was making and take my time. All right. Well, we've got another eight months to go. And so in short, it did get easier. And at the end of that whole year, I got my reports done, I met my goals, and the seven companies I did this for, they didn't win a dime because they didn't take the handoff and build the relationship. But at the end of this project and more reporting, I will ever do again in my life. All right, I'm done. I'm not telling a single soul. I know how to wait a second. I cannot be the only book smart person who does who struggles with this thing that's really just about human connection. It's not that hard until you realize what it is. What if we do this again? So I called up my friend and business partner, my training partner, Eileen, I said, Eileen, could we do this again? She said, sure. And off we went. And that became the core of the focus, my entire practice, which is now my flagship program, the federal business intensive, and the focus of all of my marketing communications as well and the things that I put out in the marketplace. Understanding how to connect with your federal humans, whether you work with me or not, is an essential part of success. If somebody has been going bid, bid, bid, bid, bid, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, and it's hurting. If you're not winning the work that you set out to win, if you are losing by a tiny margin, if somebody is telling you, you just didn't understand the statement of work, you just didn't understand the scope. Worse yet, if your buyer is awarding stuff to the guys who are higher priced, all of that boils down to how do you make your relationship stronger? How do you be the person who was talking to the buyer long before that statement of work got written? Understanding how that breaks out into the players at all the layers, what to do and say and ask. How to use free public data to focus and how to have a structured federal sales plan. So you have a systematic methodical way to build those relationships and relentless focus on the tiniest of successes that otherwise you might miss. That is the core of my practice and I learned that by having to do it. But I do that for those companies and business owners who are dedicated to your success in the federal arena because it doesn't have to be that hard, but because I know something about you. If you're in the federal arena, there are a lot of places where you could go to take your business to be successful. Lots of places to make money. The fact that you have chosen the federal arena means that you've got something special. You have a sense of purpose and mission. You know that you can help a federal buyer deliver their mission and change the world. You've got that dedication to your customer and that's why I have that dedication to you, to make it possible for you to change the world so you can have a life that you love in a business you love, serving a country you love. Well, I don't know, Judy. I don't even think I need any of these questions. We were worried about questions to ask. Did I give you an origin story you need? Let me tell you, Judy. I just pushed go and then you just take it from there and run. That's really, I love it because I agree with you. I've seen so many people out there that are telling people how to get contracts. They've never won a contract. They've never made phone calls. Even at the intro, I said, I'm the host that actually walks and walks and talks and talks. I make those phone calls. I've had to deal with those government agencies and those clients. I might have to make a couple phone calls this week, but I like it because it keeps my skills fresh. I hone in on what's going on in the marketplace. I have my fingers on the pulse and the beat of what's happening today, not 10 years ago or not eight years ago. Today, we're in a different climate. It's a different environment. Even excluding the pandemic, that's a whole other, that takes to another level. You can tell me what you've been saying, but I've seen a different set of, and you mentioned this in the beginning. I'm not sure if this was before the recording, but you mentioned this at some point, which is you've got the first year contracting officers, contracting specialists, program managers, and then you have those 22 year veteran. Well, I'm seeing a lot more of the first year people. Is that what you're experiencing out there? You get both ends of the spectrum, both are true. You've still got a large chunk of people who, and pandemic is making a lot of decisions happen faster. There may be people who are getting ready to leave government and going, okay, I'm done. You're going to see people exiting, you're going to see new people coming in, and there can be a huge gap in the middle. Both of those are happening. The interesting thing about pandemic, I'm hearing as well, you're talking about polar opposites. I'm hearing people say, oh, government buyers are not picking up the phone, they're not in their offices, they're not calling. The people who are having that experience are the ones who aren't making phone calls in the first place, because people who are making phone calls are saying, oh my goodness, my federal buyers just won't get off the phone. They're so desperate to have a conversation with somebody who's not hunting for Cheerios. Persistence matters, having a short, cheerful voicemail, and you're not expecting to reach them, but you're going to say, I'm going to call you back Thursday at 2, and you call back Thursday at 2. You've shown you're persistent, you've shown you're cheerful, and you've shown you do what you say you're going to do. Dick, you put a marble in the trust jar, and so the opportunities for those micro wins is huge. And everything about pandemic gives us the ability to use one of our human superpowers, and that's human connection. Eric, we as humans are wired to be connected with each other. There is a reason why solitary confinement is the most extreme form of human punishment. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, connection with other humans is something that we need as beings to thrive. Now, in pandemic, we have all gone through extraordinary difficulties, incredible things that we couldn't have begun to expect, and we've learned a lot as well. And the ability to just say, how are you doing? No, really. And care about the answer and just listen. How hard is that? Your average government employee you talk to, they'll talk to you about their kids or their family or what's going on with their, can they get out to walk the dog or with, and are they worried about mask wearers and all of those things? You have an ability to connect on a human level and just relax a little. Say, how are you doing? Has your family? And listen and care about that answer leaves you with that ability to connect on a really human level like never before. And it's, and that's one of our human superpowers. I would say that, yeah, we're on the opposite side where the phone you call them. And I've said this before to some of my students. I said, look, I have to get off the phone with the government because they just keep talking and talking. And I remember this one particular agency, the guy said, listen, call me back anytime. Don't feel ashamed. Listen, I'm here to help whatever you need. If I didn't answer it right the first time, just give me a call back and I promise you, I mean, like you said, they wanted that connection. And going to your point, you know, it is genuine, right? Because we all are isolated from each other. We're not in buildings. We're not in offices. And I think going back to our human superpower, you do empathize with people you care. Like, I mean, I really do care how you're doing, right? Because maybe you've experienced death, maybe you've experienced death, you know, through a friend or a family or a loved one, you start to realize that, well, that does weigh in on you and how you feel and your perspective and your outlook of the world changes. So it does for me at least, and, you know, it brings it closer to, okay, how is this person doing and what are some of the things, their challenges they're experiencing. So I agree with that. One of the things that I am offering folks, and maybe this would be timely for your listeners, is a federal 2021 launch checklist. Do you think some of the folks who are listening would like to get, like some ideas for how to get their federal 2021 off to a bang up start? From Judy Brett, absolutely. Because they won't take it from anyone because, but from Judy Brett, absolutely. I think they won't take it. Well, let me tell you, I've gone through and I've just put the link in the chat and you can share this in the show notes. We're going to have this available through the whole first quarter, all the way through till the end of December. Okay. The most important thing that somebody listening can do, first, celebrate. I really mean that. Now, I am the Mary Tyler Moore giver of parties. If you're old enough to remember Mary Tyler Moore, I am not a real party animal. I have to be really kick-drag kicking and screaming because I'm all, oh, good, we won. What's next? I have learned there's research that shows that the time we take to celebrate builds resilience. If we could roll the clock back 12 months and somebody could whisper in your ear, 2020 is going to be hard. Never mind why, but if you take the time to celebrate now, it'll go better for you when the unimaginable happens. Would you have gone and gone out and party because you never know? Would you have done that a year ago? No, no, that's true. You would. You'd think about that. All right. So you know what? It's a year later. Anybody know what 2021 is going to turn up? Nope. But you want to go and celebrate. Bucket of resilience. So take the time. Raise a glass of whatever bubbly suits you. My favorite is sparkling ciders followed by bubbly water. Whatever it is, celebrate by yourself, celebrate with your family, all the things you went through, not just what you earned, but also what you learned. Take that moment. Raise the virtual glass. Get on the phone with your federal buyers and partners. Say, hey, we did great stuff. Here's to you. Here's to us. Talk to your team, your partners. Take that moment. I've had a wonderful experience. We learned a lot with birthday parties in my family over the last year. The first birthday party was my brother, Dave, and it was in April, like within three or four weeks, everything closing down. My family's in Canada. So by the time I got to the end of April, I realized I was not going home for Christmas. One of the gut punch moments. So all of this stuff was unfolding. My brother, Dave, was the first one in our family to in sequence have a birthday. Well, boy, that was hard. Watching the birthday person open their little piece of cake all by themselves. It just felt, we tried to put on a happy face, but boy, it felt awful. We all hung up the phone. Honestly, we all cried. It was awful. So the months go on and there's family events. There's other things we figure out how to log on to zoom. That was helpful. Even grandma figured it out. So my birthday's coming up in September. So I think, all right, what have we learned? First, do not eat your cake by yourself. Second, send party packages to people. Much better ideas. So everybody, okay, and send an invitation saying you're going to get a party kit. So please RSVP so we can get your party kit in time. People said, oh, I'm going to be there. Send my party kit. And everybody opened their party kits at the same time. It was much more fun. And so, and we didn't send cake. It turned out that we sent cookies because cookies weren't going to kind of melt on the front porch and not get delivered and stuff. That cookies worked out better. We watched people open their cookies and my mom just turned out ahead. My husband sent me some, some macarons. And so they were just quite wonderful. And so, but we all celebrated together. And so I learned from that. And so I've been hosting some federal New Year's parties with my community and with my clients. And so we're all getting on together. And we're going around the room and everybody's sharing a thing that they earned, a thing that they learned. And just this bubbling up of feel good. It's the, the feeling of the dopamine hit of celebrating a success is almost as much when you're celebrating with somebody else's win as when you're celebrating your own. Eric, do you watch professional sports? I do. Okay. Do you get a rush when your team wins? Oh, absolutely. There you go. I'm not a watcher of professional sports. So I had to read about this in theory. But, but that's, that's the big throw. But that was a great, that was a great point because last night the Lakers won the championship. So I thought you were going to pull that in, Judy, but that's okay. I knew you were thinking it. You were thinking, that's where you were headed. Last night was the NBA finals and the Lakers won the championship. Yeah. So it feels great to celebrate other people's wins as well. But that, so the number one thing I want you to do is you're launching your federal 2021 is stand up and celebrate. That's the first thing. The second one is stand down. I want you to do your hot wash, your after action review because you spend, companies spend anywhere from 30,000 to $233,000. So over the course of a 12 month period on the road to winning federal contracts. If you don't stop and say, Hey, what went really well? What did? No, it was not really a great use of money and what are we never honestly going to do again? The red, yellow, green. If you don't do that, then you're on the course that led to picking your own pocket and letting your money get siphoned out of your back pocket for the year ahead. Don't do that. You can get the less, you can ring the last few dollars of return on investment out of last year's marketing investment by doing that after action review, that hot wash. That's not the same as an annual plan, but it lets you level your own playing field instead of tilting the field against yourself. Clean up. It's in natural terms. Summer is really harvest season. That's true in the natural world. It's also true in federal contracting. You hit fall, you clean up the fields. You make things tidy. You make things ready for what's ahead as the fields go quiet. If you're a gardener, you're planting bulbs. You're throwing in pepper over top of the bulb, so the squirrels don't get them. You're, you're readying things for the year ahead, and that's what October, November, December is all about in, in the natural world, in the natural flow of federal contracting. So hot wash, then cleaning things up. It's your after action review. So first, celebrate. Second, hot wash. Third, October into November. What happens in November? What's the big thing that happens in November in the United States, Eric? Come on, November. Thanksgiving is coming in. What is it? Thanksgiving. Yes, Thanksgiving. Give thanks. Give thanks. We get more of the things we are grateful for. Lots of people. You'll find lots and lots of research out there, but the power of a gratitude practice. Whatever your personal practices are, there's a ton of research out there. We get more of what we give thanks for. We get more of those things that we envision and focus on. Giving thanks also means take the time to write the thank you note to the people in the federal arena who helped you and not just the contracting officer who signed the contract, but also the contracting specialist who helped you understand how to fill out your paperwork. The small business specialist who guided you, who encouraged you, find out who their management is, write that letter on the letterhead and put it in the mail. Remember we talked about their personnel files? Those letters from industry set your people apart from the ones that they're competing against for promotions. That thank you letter that you write is life changing. It is career altering in a good way. Those letters are not complicated, but I want to thank Sally Brown. She helped me figure out something I had struggled with for years and it meant that I was able to serve your agency and perform well and do a flawless job that she told me we completed better than anyone she'd ever seen on this contract. So make clear what they did, why they were skilled, the difference that they made to you and also to the way you were able to serve their agency. That's not hard. So give thanks is the third thing that I want to encourage people to do. What could be more natural? All the rest of the tips and I have a total of seven are in my federal 2021 launch checklist and you can go and get that link that I left in the chat for you and your community, Eric. And we'll make sure to have that link on the show notes page for this episode, wherever people find it and tune in to listen to it. So that was great. I love it. Actually, that's wonderful. I think I'm going to celebrate next week with our group, internally, of all our Gulf Coast students who won contracts and the ones who tried. Like you said, celebrate what you learned and celebrate what you earned. Both. Yeah. I think that's a good, that's a great exercise for us. We did celebrate it and we, you know, we posted a post, but we didn't actually talk about it and have a dialogue about what happened and what what was. So I think that's a great, that's a great exercise that I'm going to actually implement this week. Wonderful. And I've, if somebody is listening to this, for goodness sake, write it's judy.brat, b-r-a-d-t at growfedbiz.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear what you're doing to celebrate and let me know which of the tips really turned out to be especially valuable for you. Not really. Going back to your first book, you were asking me early on, Eric, where are some of the things you pulled out of it? Let's go back to another section that I found. There must be a reason why I chose pink. And then yellow. Let me see. Oh, I know what it was. One of the areas that I really enjoyed was your go-no-go criterion. Because when I first got started, again, and then look, a newly small business, what you just mentioned, we bid, bid, bid, bid, bid, right? Without giving it any thought. Hey, this looks like a project fit, bid, bid, bid, right? We're spending our exercise, spending our wills. So that was really helpful for me as helping me to determine when is a good time to bid versus not bid. Also, things to ask when hiring a proposal writer. As we start growing our businesses and start going after bigger projects, we're gonna have to start putting together more technical proposals. And you hire people that tell you they can do all these wonderful things. Their resumes are impressive, but really, it's difficult to gauge. And I didn't know what to ask. I didn't know what to look for. So that was beneficial. But one of the ones that I really loved was the five people you need to meet. Those are so important. I'm gonna pull them right out. So if you're listening to this, take notes. There are players, you need to know at least one player at all five of these layers. This is our players and layers method. And here they are. And I'm gonna tell you the ones I teach because my work evolves even in the course of between finishing the book and what I'm actually teaching. So I'm gonna actually do a little tweak and I'm gonna tell you the way I teach it when I do my big program one on one. All right. And everybody that is listening, you've got your own list of contacts and clients. And there are usually players that are really overrepresented and then there are ones that are underrepresented. You need to know who the players are. Have at least one player at all five layers every place you want to be successful. So here we go. First layer, stakeholder. My friend Eileen Kent says, this is the person who gets tied to the stake and tart and feathered if things go tango uniform. So this is can be the base commander. It can be the cabinet secretary, the deputy assistant director. They are the ones often that are speaking at events. They are not your buyer. They're not signing the contract. They're not personally stuck day to day with the consequences of who they're not choosing the buyers. They are the one where the buck stops. They are the one who's going to get on the front page of the Washington Post below the fold if things go bad. They're the one who's going to have to resign if things don't go well. All right. That's your stakeholder. Second layer. Okay. Small business specialist. The small business specialist, you probably have a ton of their business cards in the offices of small and disadvantaged business utilization or the small and disadvantaged business utilization office, the sad booze. They're not your buyers either. They are on the hook for they have inward and outward facing responsibilities. They are the ones that have to report back to the small business administration on how the agency is meeting their goals. They're the ones who are always asking before the solicitation gets published. Hey, can this be awarded to small business? But they are not your buyer. They can be your advocate. The more research you do before you talk to them, the more helpful they're going to be paradoxically. But they're not your buyer. So when you're looking and if you've got lots of small business specialists in your database, you need to balance those out with the people at the other three layers. I'm going to tell you about now. Third layer. Contracting. That can include the contracting officer, KO or CO. That person has an authority that the president of the United States does not have. That's the ability to legally bind your company to the government of these United States to provide a product or service at a price and under specific conditions. That's a legal authority. Contracting specialist is a contracting officer's right-hand person. And that they're in this contracting layer together. And they're bound by the federal acquisition regulations every day of every year. So stakeholder, small business specialist, contracting. Next layer. End user. That's a big bucket. That can include the person who's at the pointy end of the stick, the person who's in the queue, the person who's at the help desk, the person who is the program manager and controls and authorizes a whole lot of money. But they're the ones who are stuck day to day with the consequences and operational implications and quality of what you are providing. And they feed, they influence the specifications, they define that requirement. You really need to be talking to them. And their titles are the same as the titles of end users and clients and customers you've always had in your business. You need to know who they are. There's six free sources of federal market research that I talk about in my work and in the book so people can find out as much as you can about your end users and who they are. So stakeholder, small business specialist, contracting, end user and the last layer is industry, is the prime. Both the people who are already performing that contract or want to be. Some of them you're going to have to team with. Some of them you're going to have to displace. But I want to encourage you to consider the concept of competitive mates. It's very rare that one person you're never going to team with them. You always have to push them out. Sometimes you'll team, sometimes you won't. But understand, think about opportunity, not as pie, but as dough. Add warmth, dough rises, there's more for everybody. I like that. I like that. You've been doing this a long time, Judy. How many people have you helped now so far? Come please. Oh my goodness. Between people that have been to presentations and as well as clients, probably over 10,000. Wow. And it's one of those things you can never know what the impact is going to be until somebody comes back and says, let me tell you a story. I love to hear people's stories. All right. All right. All right. Where are you, what are you focusing on now? Obviously, you know, you have the release of your second book and you have your programs on your platform, brofedbiz.com. What are the things that you focus on now? The big focus that I have right now is in working with companies who are ready to take their federal success to the next level. The federal business intensive is my flagship offering, and that's designed for a company that has got success in the federal market and is looking to take it to the next level. They have been around the block. They have made the commitment to build business through relationships, to get in their head of everybody else because they're tired of losing. They really want to make that difference and to invest in as a team, understanding what it takes to focus, to connect, and to win. The companies who do the work are successful. So 100% of my effort that flows from conversations like ours, that flows from outreach and participation in industry events is all about connecting with business owners who put up a hand and say, I'm ready for change. I'm ready for success beyond my wildest dreams. Show me the way and we'll do the work. Those are my people. I love it. I love it. Again, let's mention some of your sites again, growfedbiz.com. You said you gave us an email address. I did, judy.bratt. That's b-r-a-d-t at growfedbiz.com. Connect with me on LinkedIn. You can get the first chapter of my book, which is Government Contracts Made Easier. That's because easy is fiction. Government contracts made easier. Chapter one at growfedbiz.com slash book. You can get the whole book, which is number one Amazon bestseller on Amazon. Do you have any spare time? I do when I'm not in pandemic, which has driven me into the same kind of bad numbing behavior and overwork as everybody else, which is not good for me. The things that I do when I'm not doing this, the number one thing I miss is actually I've helped over 1,000 people go up a wall. I'm a professional climbing instructor at Sport Rock in Alexandria. I have taught for the last 13 years, taught the basic climbing basic skills class. It is just a joy. Your brain literally changes. I take a group of anywhere from one to nine people through this transformation in two hours where people just sort of stand around and look at each other. And two hours later, they are literally putting each other's lives in each other's hands. Imagine being able to do that. Can you send us a picture so we can add it to your profile? I'd love to see a picture of you doing that. Oh, I will share one. In fact, you hear about people having vision boards and all that kind of stuff. And sometimes a lot of the time I go, that works for other people. That does not work for me. What's the deal with the woo? I never got the woo. I had a vision board. Honestly, I threw it out finally. I just got so exasperated. Visions are funny things. One of the things that I had on the vision board was sort of depicting wanting more adventure. I had a picture that somebody took of me at the very top of the very first climb I did outdoors on real rock in the summer of 2006. I had a bright orange climbing helmet on. My head is thrown back in this expression of ecstatic joy. It's out of focus. The rock is in focus. I'm out of focus. But that picture of ecstasy, that was on the board. Fast forward 14 years, I spent my 60th birthday last year on the island of Kalimnos in Greece with seven Australians climbing 100 foot cliffs. So this stuff gets into your head. It really does. I'm a private pilot with an instrument rating. That's something else that is hard to get to practice six feet away from anybody. So this was going to be the year I got back in the cockpit and did the rust busting and put the hood on and got my instrument rating written. Nope, that wasn't happening. The other thing I love to do, I'm a scuba diver. And this is a virus that rips the living crap out of your lungs. So I am right now very intent on doing what I call staying under the sofa. Because I want to do all of these things again, have plenty of cardio capacity and lots of good lungs supporting me to do it. So that's why I'm staying the frock out of everybody's way and just staying home. But one of my other friends in government contracting, Chris Brinker, was teaching an online class to learn Tai Chi. So if these all sound like very adrenaline based things, actually what they have in common with Tai Chi is this. I like to do things that are interesting. I love to explore my world. And to do that, I find the best instructors that I can who stay by my elbow and answer my questions and keep me alive. I tip the guide heavily and follow instructions so as nobody gets killed. It works out really well. But good instruction, good instruction is the key to great adventures. And I want to make sure that all of my clients get the very best guidance. And I don't always have the answers, just like you say that you don't. But having a strong infrastructure, I don't do GSA schedule work. You couldn't pay me enough money to do a GSA schedule proposal, not because they're not important, but because I'm not any good at them, but I have great partners. So great instruction and great partners and a great referral network, all of that plays right into who I am. Explore your world, get good help, do extraordinary things, do them safely and learn in a way that, you know, you're going to stub your toe, you're going to make mistakes, but they're not going to be fatal. And you're going to have somebody go, yep, this is normal. This happens. Let's pick you up and see where you can go. So you're going underwater, up in the air, and then up the sides of rocks. Land, air and sea. Julie, you're remarkable. Not just in terms of context, but wow. I don't know if I'd pick those three hobbies. I like to stay on a golf cart. Everybody has things they love. Eric, I am terrible with everything involving spheroid objects and striking implements. I'm terrible at all things involving sports and ball. I got skipped a grade in school, so I was a year younger than everybody else. Nobody wanted me on their team. It took me years to figure out. I was just a year younger. A year makes a big difference in physical development, but I'm terrible at team sports. I didn't find a sport I loved until I learned how to climb when I was 46. Tell us, did you shop on Amazon? I do. What was your last purchase that made you happy? The last purchase I made that made me happy was I bought a set of 32 colored white board markers for my friend, Will Randolph, who's one of my top gun coaches in my program. He does something called Williams Whiteboard on LinkedIn. Anybody who's listening, check out Williams Whiteboard. It's another example of the amazing partners that I have. I met Will when he was a panelist at the Contract Ready conference at Joint Base Langley Fort Eustis last January, just before everything closed up. He is now one of the folks who's part of my team. My clients get to Eric, are you a Navy guy? I'm not. Do you know where the top gun program came from? In the 60s in Vietnam, the Navy decided they had new technology. They're going to really have this sort of over the horizon radar to hit the button, send off the missiles, not even have to engage. It was going to be great. And the Navy experienced a drop in the combat efficiency ratio. Normally, their typical experience is that they would lose one aircraft and crew for every 12 of the other side they took out. Well, with this new technology and this new strategy, new tactics, their combat efficiency ratio dropped to 2.5 to 1. You think about what that means. They were losing pilots and air crew at a horrendous rate. If a pilot couldn't survive, if they got a pilot could survive past their first three or four missions, their odds of coming back alive were better. But to get to that point, they were losing hundreds of people. And so the Navy stepped back and said, what's going on? We need to understand what's happening. And there's something called the ALT, AULT, the ALT report, came back and said, okay, you got two problems. First, your missile technology is not working. That was a technical problem that was fixable. But the other problem is that pilots weren't being trained in air combat. And so they didn't have that close-up fighter tactics skills anymore. Nine guys, nine Navy pilots went to the desert, perloined a trailer and rebuilt the fighter tactics curriculum. And on March 3rd of 1969, Top Gun opened its doors. They started training the trainers in a matter of months. The combat efficiency ratio went up from 2.5 to 1 to 13 to 1. Fight like you train, train like you fight. And here's why I mentioned that. When I'm working with clients, if you do the work, if you do your research into your federal humans, you get one-on-one time with one of my Top Gun coaches. And Will Randolph is one of them who's a former federal contracting officer who's been in the chair. You can literally reset the simulator, do a role play, say, hey, could I ask my contracting officer this? What's going to happen? So that by the time you're having that conversation with somebody who's got your future in their pocketbook, it's comfortable like breathing. That is something you can't get anywhere else. And that's something that happens with my clients. I like that. Any quotes that you live by? I'm sure you have a dozen of them are still floating around that head of yours. My goodness. I can see them bouncing around. The Rolodex is going wild. Let me think about that for a second. I think to remember. Yes, I do. The one I love is from Dr. Maya Angelou. People will forget what you did. People will forget what you said. What people will never forget how you made them feel. That was a good one. That was a great one, actually. That's as relevant in everyday life as it sure is in federal contracting. How did you make somebody feel? Outside of your particular book that we've talked about several times, any other recommendations do you have for people for learning, education, expanding? I do. Some of my favorites are Brene Brown, everything by Brene Brown, but particularly one of her most recent books called Dare to Lead. It takes a lot of her work on connection, shame, vulnerability, and puts it into a leadership context. So whether you're leading a government contracting team or something in your church community or something, even in your family, understanding those things that are the difference between showing up all shielded and showing up a complete hot mess, understanding where the zone is and being vulnerable enough and knowing who can tell your story, understanding how trust is built. Absolutely critical. Critical work. Another one. When you're talking about being in really simple, doing planning for the year, Patrick Thean Rhythm, a great, great book I like very much, and it breaks out your year into four 13 week quarters. How hard is that? And lets you look at your red, yellow, green, what are your markers for something that's successful? What is the markers that you're running behind? What are the things that show you need action? Really simple, really powerful. Another one I like is Chip and Dan Heath, The Power of Moments, which I also just love. It really has to do with how do you get to a sticky learning experience? How do you give someone an experience that resonates with them that they're going to remember? Another one, and I don't have the book with me, another author, Joey Coleman, and he talks about the first 100 days. Your customer decides within the first 100 days whether they're going to do business with you again or they're not. And so what are those things that you can do to enhance that experience from the very first time that they engage with you? Those things, and we forget that not everything is email, that whether it's a video, it's a handwritten note. It might be a very small physical item in the mail that's worth well under $25, and that's tricky with your federal buyers, sometimes don't send them anything. That thank you note. No commercial value, real value, priceless. So Dan and Chip Heath, that's another one. So those are some that are top of my mind right now. I'm building a reading list. Oh, there's another one, Try Softer. We've had Try Harder told to us by all these people who love us, Try Softer. Really important for understanding self-compassion, which takes me to the work by Dr. Kristin Neff, as well called self-compassion. We spend a lot of time being ambitious and beating ourselves up. The phrase, the beatings will continue until morale improves. No, not really. In fact, self-compassion actually lets us support ourselves better and also support those around us better. It's incredibly powerful. So those are just some of the things, the ideas, the resources that are top of mind for me, and they play into everything to do with how I coach my clients and everything that I routinely fall down on and fail at pretty much every day of the week, three times a day. Two more questions, and then we're going to let you run. If you weren't doing this, what would you be doing? If I weren't doing this, what would I be doing? I would be traveling. I would be out seeing more of the world with my nieces and nephews and taking photographs and adventuring, just looking, seeing and enjoying the beauty and appreciating the beauty of the natural world. I think, honestly, I would be doing more of that. I would like to say that I would be looking for opportunities to make the world better for the people and situations that I run into as I go along. But those are two pieces. There's so much work to do to be, to make a difference for others. And I think that there's new adventures and new opportunities to do that that I know that I will find in my journey. So my next adventures are still unfolding. And I remember in reading here, your bio from the book that you talked about helping women on businesses. That was one of the things that you started with. So I think that's great. Something that you had to do in your business that you hated or disliked. Oh, for the longest time, I hated sales. I spent 25 years avoiding everything to do with sales from that moment when I literally ran screaming from IBM Canada looking for something else to do. I spent and my failure to understand and embrace sales cost me a million dollars in foregone income. I'm not making that up. If I had understood that, I'd be sitting on a cool extra million dollars now. And so part of what I want to do is to help other people win many, many millions of dollars more and not take 25 years about it. Because I discovered that sales wasn't the horrible awful icky thing I thought it was. It was actually something that I love and am passionate about. And that's the power of human connection. It's finding ways to care about the people right in front of you and help them achieve their dreams. And you think an introvert can do it? Of course. Of course. Because, you know, people think of the stereotype of the person in the loud plaid suit who's trying to get you into this car today. Nobody's that guy. You do you. Nobody does you the way you do. There are people who care about the things you care about. And all of us have that in us to woo, to care, to delight in, to delight someone else. All of us have built human connection with others over time. And so understanding what's the natural way you do that and to be able to go in a place where you can do more of that, find that place. And so yeah, you can do that too. And can you leave us with some parting words? I mean, I think you've crushed the interview so far. So I don't even know how you can top yourself, but I'm going to make you try. If there's, if there's one thing that I would like people, like people to remember, I'm going to get much better at doing this interview when I figure that the fastest answer to this and to have it handy. If there's one thing that I want people to remember, it's to take care of your fellow human to real, to, to understand we are all connected. We have something in common, whatever that is with every person that we run into, we are all connected in some way. And the person that you're in front of is doing the best they can, whatever their experience is, whatever's going on, if something seems to be going on there, as you can never know what's going on with somebody. So just be there for them. And to realize you really have no idea what's going on with somebody. So be compassionate, be, let go until you really know and just remember that whatever it is it's going on. They're doing the best they can and you are too in that moment. So be gentle with them. Be gentle with yourself. I think that the one message that my, that my dad would give me, he would say, be very kind to yourself. And so I think that's probably the thing I would pass along. Be very kind to yourself and that plays out and makes everything better. No, that was, I think, given the moment, the times, everything that we're all going through is really, I don't think we can ever say it enough. I don't think we can ever say it enough. Thank you for your kindness and for just such an engaging interview and the chance to get to know each other, Eric. It's been a pleasure. No, it's really thank you for coming on. I, you know, it's just, I, even today, and maybe this is happening to you because you wrote this book and you've been a bestseller a long time, but I'm new to people knowing me and knowing who I am. So it's a change and I now have had the experience of the feeling that what people feel like to meet me for the first time and meeting you. So thank you for making this easier on me. Thank you for, no, because people are always, when they see me, they say, oh this, you're Eric, you're the guy, you're the, you're that Eric. So for me, I say, hey, Judy, you're, you're that Judy, you're the person from the book that I read about. So it's great to get a chance to engage with you. If I lived up to my billing.