 And I'm actually say happy new year everybody. This is our first meeting of of the new year and we are 12 days in and it's been quite a year so far But I hope that everybody is doing well and and enjoyed the holidays and are ready to buckle back down To the very important work that we have It is an opportunity for us today to really just have a discussion I know and I hate that zoom doesn't really allow for a lot of discussion Well, it allows for discussion, but I know it's kind of different than if we were around the table together And so I hate that we're not actually be able to be around the table together to really share ideas But I hope that we can really get into the meat of our work today I want to start first with Called the meeting to order Erica has sent the minutes from our December 8th meeting and before we kind of jump into our committee discussions I want to see if we have Emotion to approve the minutes from December 8th of 2020 So moved motion to move Agenda minutes. Okay. It's been moved by a lot and I saw is there a second. I know everybody's on mute A second All right, was that Jim? Jim Ziki second all those in favor Say aye or raise your hand for those of you on mute All right. Thank you. So we are we have approved our our minutes for December 8th 2020 So guys what I want to do today since it is our first meeting of 2021 I know that we didn't really get started till midway of 2020 But I wanted us to have just today operate on discussion regarding our goals for 2021 I've not made it any secret that I think in order for us to really give robust recommendations to Council and the mayor that we have to kind of understand where we are Which we've done over the last couple months of figuring out the the lay of the land in Colombia But also have a vision to where we want to go And to be a really big Audacious goal I've had a couple conversations with people over the last couple weeks So some of you on the committee and and some other folks saying, you know that Which you guys are probably looking for is really really bold and do you think it's achievable? And those of you who know me personally Well know that I don't shy away from big goals I think that big goals are opportunity for us to stretch ourselves And so in order for us to really meet the challenge of where we are in our city We have to have those big goals and and set them Unapologetically To get us to where we need to be and if we fall a little bit short that we still have done great work But you know We we won't really be able to tackle the gravity of the issue that we have here in the midlands area without Thinking bold So I want to challenge us as we have this discussion today uh to to really Fully understand where we are and although, you know, don't put limits on ourselves versus You know saying, you know funding or some of the false starts that may have happened in the past I don't want that to get in cloud any of what we're talking about today I want us to really just have that discussion Um so that we can at least put something on paper Uh, so with that said, um The two things that I wanted us to really focus on today is really what is affordable housing means to us Here in the midlands. Um, and then secondly, um, based on what that definition is What is our goal? As far as having a affordable housing unit goal that we need to Put forward to city and county council over the next five 10 even 15 years I did some rereading of my materials. I know that you guys got a lot when you first joined this committee And so, um, I want to challenge you, um, that maybe over over the next few weeks Maybe to reread some of the materials that we got initially, but I was rereading the materials this weekend Um, that staff put together for us great materials that we got at the very beginning and one of the things That is in all the materials is that we currently have A huge affordable housing deficit. Um, and that's just Before 2020 hit We know that the circumstances over 2020 has Exacerbated our existing conditions. And so even what we knew and thought to be Reality for us here last year at this time has changed Um, and so in order for us to again meet the moment We've got to think about what the events of 2020 and potentially, you know, the first part of 2021 into Third quarter of 2021 what that will mean as far as where we're going so that we can set set a good goal So with that said, I am going to I'm going to actually switch. Um The order of the discussion of the goals because I think we have to talk about the what Affordable housing what the definition for the midlands means first before we get actually set the goal So I'm going to um, actually defer um to missy and Christa and lee I'm kind of putting christa and lee on the spot and missy to a certain extent because I just called missy about 20 minutes ago but um And and then I'm calling on them just because they have some materials But I really am going to ask that those of you all of you have a particular expertise. Um, but those of you, um Dr. Grady Lala Anna Ivory all of y'all who are working in this every single day Um To to add from your perspective. What is it? What is the definition to you? What does it really mean the HUD definition? Of affordable housing and y'all the experts in the community y'all know, I'm just passionate about this I'm not expert in no means of Of of any way about this but uh y'all correct me if I'm wrong But everything that I've always read and been taught is the HUD definition is 30 percent of your income Is is what we're looking at and so When I think about what that affordability means I know that it means something different in the city of clumbier than in other areas But even that definition to me doesn't seem like it really captures what the reality is on the ground So I wanted us to kind of talk about what is the reality on the ground is what is affordable for people to So have affordable housing here so that we can kind of craft that that definition So that when we're saying what the goal is as far as the number of units and at what price points we understand what that means so, um Lee, um, I know you've done a lot of work I was looking at I know you did the comp plan and others leave. Do you want to start or missy? Do you want to start with this and then I'm going to let um Laila and and Jeff and Brian and others kind of chime in as to what they see I'm I'm good with whichever Lee you want to go hit start it. I know missy just sent me what the what you guys you and christa and gloria put together Um, but d or or even gloria. I forgot. I don't know y'all whoever tell me who wants to kind of get started on this conversation Certainly and missy is actually yeah, she's um trying to get out of another meeting. So she's she's on her way here But I think what you can see from from the document and I will defer to lee and gloria But I'll kick us off is that you you do have a number of definitions I mean, but you know at at its basic it comes down to you know, do we have housing that's affordable to people at various levels? and so Defining those levels actually brian. I think did a great job with his a mi max's in his um memo as well showing that for for columbia and then Tying those into the goals And so both from a planning perspective and a community development perspective um Taking into account all of those definitions. I think is important Because we do have a variety of sectors of our community that we need to address um brian very rightly talks about the extremely low income folks that and and those are going to be our toughest um Constituencies to try to get into housing for the number of reasons that the references But but in a larger perspective, I think part of the conversation that we were having previously was just about um that affordable housing can be For a part of the community that most people don't think about as well That's what we've discussed that that it really is, you know Perhaps my brother or someone's son or daughter That it's not the other and that this community. I think needs to try to Make that a point too that it that it's our neighbors our family and our friends That meet that definition as well Lee or gloria you want to Try them in Yeah, good morning everyone. This is gloria I I think to christis point When you're when you're talking about affordable housing, of course through community development We're always looking at You know those individuals that are 80 or below the area median income Um, but we also know that when it comes to affordability, you know those who make over 80 I would say up to the 120 which we call our workforce housing. They're also looking for the same opportunities um You know and as it relates to the stigma Which is I think that was some of the conversation that came up earlier Is you know how the public actually views affordable housing? Uh, what is it actually and and who is it that that you know needs? Affordable housing it's it's more people than than we can think about um You know your Your city workers your your county workers your people who work in the hospitals, you know, um Uh service industries like your restaurants. I mean everybody, you know has a need so I think in regards of the messaging If it's possible, I don't know if we need to necessarily focus On a an income amount necessarily But just perhaps on the people um, and what affordable housing is as it relates to those who are looking for those opportunities um So yeah, I just wanted to add that that piece of information there Sure, and and I would just echo what what both of you said this is we um and and to you also a little bit past the baton um our the partnership and Public education awareness the two subcommittees met yesterday and we talked about this like a bit so there's certainly Folks in those subcommittees led by Jennifer and Brenna that would would be able to speak to some of that as well One of the things we talked about was just how it may not just be a definition of just strictly affordable housing Columbia Compass uses that 30 percent kind of as a backup hand, but a lot of the market analysis did um You know for for sale it was more of a 35 percent with you know an assumed Mortgage and interest rates and that sort of thing. So so we're not as concerned with mirroring the plan Exactly, but we did talk about how it's Probably important to not just talk about affordable housing but about the concept of cost burden and talking about the concept of Affordable housing not just being about the unit so talking about complete neighborhoods Which is a concept that we really talked about in Columbia Compass about having those access to goods and services and transit that make affordable housing actually part of an affordable lifestyle for folks so Just kind of thinking a little bit broader in those terms as well. We talked about that but Other than that i'm i'm i'm happy to defer to others All right, thank you I just like every Yeah, thank you I just like to add to to leave comments regarding the uh the cost burden um Prior to uh to come into columbia I was a part of the affordable housing task force in greenville and one of the things that we learned through um Just really taking a deep dive at all of the analysis is that It was important for us to back into the definition Kind of stay away from the HUD definition, but to really take a look at the cost of rental property and the cost of Actually owning a home in greenville and then kind of defining what that definition is based on the you know the cost of Of what it means to to rent something that's affordable and also to purchase something that is affordable So I I do um, I was looking to see if there's any information that we may have access to in columbia that might buy us with um You know with the dollar amount Of our average rental property, you know in columbia and just kind of Back into that as a definition for what We might define as uh affordable or workforce housing So anybody could jump in and I guess that's what I was alluding to on when I talked about the 30 percent I guess and I I guess what I in my mind. I'm thinking isn't the housing cost Not to be more than 30 percent of your gross income I'm just am I am I remembering that correctly? Yeah, yeah, I didn't just jump in So, yeah, that's essentially the number that HUD Uses that that dictates how rents are set for housing choice vouchers for low-income housing tax credits for all these different programs Um, it's not a number that's actually based on anything. It's a number that congress picked 40 years ago And and why I will tell you too if you look at the methodology It's using uh census data. That's probably 20 years old when it's calculating What that um rate is so it's very old data Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of moving parts there. So that's you know You're trying to think about it more holistically if you look back at the housing needs assessment that I developed for SC housing um, you know, I sort of put a focus on this concept of shelter poverty which marries census data with uh the united way association report on self-sufficiency standard So I tried to do a little more holistic approach and basically says well affordable housing is what this household can afford Um, and and what does that look like? What are their needs? um, you know, how much do they need in childcare food transportation or some other things and um You know, I'm just looking at Mary on it in in the chat here. And I think I think everything she says is is entirely accurate um Sort of and we'll get into this when we start talking about the the memo that I Put together, but I think you know step one is is stabilizing those people that are extremely low income and very low income You know, there certainly are workforce housing needs in the community but there's there's certainly a A distinction in need from not able to afford the housing they want where they want to live and not able to afford any housing anywhere Um, and so that's sort of why the focus is is on that population disproportionately in my analysis Mika, um I I would offer and um It's so hard. I want to make eye contact with people on zoom calls And I'm trying to make eye contact with gloria right now Because she's the one that I will call and yell into the phone And commiserate with often. Um, I think one of the things that we We do keep in mind and we have to keep in mind as we talk about the messaging um is You know, we're all dealing with neighborhoods Um, and we're all dealing with an incredible need So this idea of the age old not in my backyard um So we we have this incredible need at 30 percent Um, and when I say 30 percent, I don't mean of income I mean at people who are at 30 percent AMI income. So they are at our our most at risk individuals families men women Um, so we have to be very cautious as we develop this affordable housing so that it It fits in to existing neighborhoods So no one feels threatened So the messaging when I when I go out is it's it's mixed use Um, we're not going to create pockets of poverty. We're not going to We're not going to put a community of those who are at 30 percent AMI Um, you want 30 percent and 60 percent and 80 percent all together Because the idea is if you can you're moving those individuals at 30 percent to 60 percent to 80 percent I want my families at 30 percent to income out. That's the ultimate goal I also want them living in affordable housing That is just as nice and just as appropriate For someone at 80 percent AMI That's my responsibility as a developer And I think what you're seeing is hood And you know the the federal entities state housing You know those that are kind of helping us with the funding are kind of starting to put those guidelines so ideally the neighborhoods are less They're always going to be worried because it's always going to be not in my backyard But the neighborhoods aren't going to feel as um, or you help me with the word here We're helping build up neighborhoods regardless of which neighborhood it is we want to develop housing That you know what i'm trying to say gloria It's a it's a battle on the front end. Yeah, because you have to you have to convince them, but if you do this right Eventually everyone is going to see That this is right for the greater community So lala anna you you brought up an excellent point. So I think the key along the way with the messaging is showing um evidence of where a housing has taken place before And it's uh improved neighborhoods. It hasn't brought neighborhoods hoods down So I think that's going to be a part of it as well when we talked about You know Making sure that there's enough diversity in housing for everyone That we show that there's a quality of it is not going to You know make your the cost of your housing go down and you may you will hear the opposite You'll hear some what complain about well now that you have the new housing, you know now You know my taxes are going to go up. So You know, there's some give and take on on on each end as you're improving neighborhoods um, you know bringing more people, you know A wide array of uh income so that you can attract Other things like other businesses Um like like grocery stores and things of that nature. So You know in in the messaging, I think that's what should probably be a part of it about You know, what affordable housing Is and and what it means to an area to grow it and make it stronger and more sustainable um, this is Jennifer just a couple comments, um, the the again the partnership in the public education committee met yesterday and I Did a photo brand is she did a great job leading that meeting yesterday So thank you. But some of the things that we talked about is maybe trying to not use some of the HUD language We think it's important for for technical experts to to know and use that Language and be aware of it but for common You know common language use, you know, no no one wants to hear government lingo, right? um, but some of the things we talked about is um quality rental and home ownership opportunities for people at various income levels That build complete and thriving communities So something like that and I think that incorporates some of the things that lee and maybe christa had added as well So so something along those lines incorporating quality housing and rental and home ownership But again with that concept of complete and thriving communities because this is not only just about Housing is about economic opportunities for people being able to attract and retain young people who want to be here People who have stable housing at all income levels and things like that Let me ask this out and throw this out for a conversation or a thought as well so Based on kind of what I hear some of y'all saying although there are tech the technical definitions have like a Monetary or some kind of number attached to it for our purposes based on kind of That the what jennifer just shared and that could be kind of a mission But it also could be a definition should Should we for our purposes Kind of stay shy away from the number part knowing to ourselves that there is of course some income levels that we need to Target to make sure that um, we're thinking about that but should our Our definition of affordable housing shy away from a number and just talk about that diversity quality Everything jennifer just talked about I'd offer that those that that are are most vulnerable don't would have no clue what percentage they are If you asked any of my families within My continuum of care what percentage a mi they are They wouldn't be able to tell you I think that number is is is is great for us It's the language we speak But to jennifer's point I just I think we we would make more friends using the language they've kind of come up with then um It's it's layman's terms jennifer do you mind reading that again just so we can all hear what you just said again um I'm going to try to read my handwriting because I had the Y'all have ever worked with me. You know the worst penmanship ever this didn't come from the committee This was just some of the concepts that we talked about from various sources yesterday Um, but what I wrote down was quality rental and home ownership opportunities for people at various income levels to build complete and thriving communities Again, not from the committee. So So folks are on the call. Please please add in So I think this is brenna. Hey everybody I think one of the things we mentioned yesterday on the call too Which kind of ties in a lot of what lila anna and jennifer a few other people were saying Is that affordable housing based on person or that a person or family can pay for while still having money left over for basic necessities Like food transportation and health care That means that what we consider affordable depends on households Not necessarily a set number and how we can translate that into a thriving community I think that part is key because it does depend on you know where people are Um, and you have you have, you know, some of us with kids still in daycare That's a huge bill that someone else may not have And that having that which is a necessity You know affects my ability to be able to come to work and if I have to pay that that actually is That affects the quality of life. So I think that piece again Maybe what jennifer has and brenna has and we can kind of wordsmith and play with of that and um And send that out to everybody for for digestion Um, and then maybe by next meeting we can have a definition that we all kind of feel comfortable with and that could be our our Y'all our metrics for the work that we're going to do this year Does that sound fair does anybody have any other comments on that part sam? Were you trying to say something? You know, you never come off me. You need to come off me Well, no, I'm uh, just listening to the the comments and in fact, I'm kind of involved in a Uh a project now. I don't want to don't need to talk about it. But I think it would be a really capturing the very elements that that Put affordable housing Uh on the spotlight and and it's all about I think the The total unit the individual those things that they need in order to be a part of a community a part of a neighborhood and to be perceived well perceived as being productive and and adding to that community Income is one I think also As you as we're saying You don't put an individual in a situation that they cannot Uh handle rent is one A mortgage is one And whether or not they are actually they put their real participants in that neighborhood um and also housing for What we call affordable has been stigmatized um because um when people tend to think about affordable housing they're thinking about Uh large volumes of of of habitats for people and and there's I think there's an opportunity to be very creative Uh of going into a neighborhood And not necessarily for example looking for uh, the People don't understand that but you know, um There are some examples also of where you just kind of You set into a neighborhood by different models um smaller units that they have to be rentals and um um Also really working with with with um some property owners that's willing to make a substantial investment Into a single family house You know, um that that's important also because that's the preference of a lot of people as well but the bottom line is um Just Knowing what those challenges are and the willingness to to advocate Advocate for the people and also advocate for the for the concept And they don't have to be perceived as Holding back or not Sharing up front just let folks know that we do have people in this city that have a a dire need for housing in housing comes in Various forms. It's not not just one model Um, well, that's how I view it Thank you sam Anybody else have a comment on on that? Um Mary louise you Do you like the chat come on and say something She probably can't find there you go Uh-oh, you're off mute, but we still can hear you now I wonder if your computer doesn't have a speaker Do you zoom on that computer? Okay, so I'll read it and you can give me a thumbs up. She's a great point Kowsman davis in addition to infield builds in neighborhoods We will work with other homeowners who may not be able to afford home repairs to fix their homes This helps neighborhoods stay intact Yeah Which I think when we get to the recommendations portion of our work I definitely want us to talk about those programs. I know gloria and them already have a few but Those things that help people Stay in their homes And keep them up the standards of their homes up so they don't Fallen disrepair is very important to keeping the affordability in neighborhoods. So that that will be part of our our neighborhood work So um And I'm sorry. She's I have an issue with this call Oh That's fine. You keep putting in chat. You're um, and um, and just in them are are Are watching the chat as well. So um, so anybody else julienne Did you want to add anything? The only thing I would add of course is that, you know, we work with folks that um, not only have Income Concerns but also disabilities. So, um, you know, the accessibility Issues that are there and not not even just for for folks that may have a disabling condition But also as people age we need to be making sure that we're developing affordable housing that folks can age and Without having to um to leave and go to some type of assisted living. I think we can be very mindful of the Um Of those needs in the construction and development phase Good point I think as we as we massage that definition and wordsmith that maybe we can need to talk about Um, when we talk about diversity, we'll talk about age income and ability because all those are things that we Going to keep in mind Lester did you want to add anything? He must be reading my mind blessings to everyone of like I'm like still over here battling with just affordable housing and understanding that when we're talking about affordable housing What about affordable wages? You know, that's like the the huge thing that is hindering people from maintaining Living situations living in an affordable way when we look still overall national even locally We're looking at the wages of these individuals certain incomes within these communities of eight nine ten eleven dollars an hour And we know and understand that that is not enough To maintain affordable living in any in any place in the state of south clan or any other place so I was just like This way that in my head as we build this platform up and we're talking about affordable housing It has to be a shift also In affordable housing we have to start thinking about the wage gap that is taking place in these communities It's causing people to fall in the gap and fall behind Maintaining their mortgage maintaining affordable living maintaining their rent all of that stuff And now we see it as a result of covet Where most of these people most of these individuals have an impact that of people of color people who have a lot of color Have been living already below the line of poverty And now they've been scaled back or laid off and now what happens to their living situation? It changes drastically We all know when you behind on a bill three months or six months It's hard to play come back when you're only making eight nine dollars an hour It's hard to come back from that so that's just a thing I was just wrestling my head as i'm listening to affordable housing Is that we definitely have to have a conversation about affordable wages at some point where we can actually increase that To balance this out so that people can live sustainable and take care of themselves And their families so that's just a thought Thanks Thank you lester And again, I think when we get to the full fledged recommendations of our committee once we can kind of tackle What what's our definition? We're working with and what's the goal that we're going to set then we're getting in some of those others I think affordable wages certainly goes hand in hand with Making housing affordable for folks um, and I I think you're you're right. I want to say Dr. Gray, you might have had on his hit the first pre-station He's about to make another presentation But the first presentation that he made to us a few months back Had uh, what the living wage of colombia is and so I think That having that in our document will probably be helpful So at least as we look to city has no control over that but as we We advocate for our citizens and residents to our state legislature and even our federal partners Having having a good understanding as to what the hourly wage wage needs to be in order for people to be able to have a living Wage here in the middle and so will be important for us to Put in our document. I think So before we move to brian's presentation um Gregory jeff dylan Shayla none of y'all have said anything. I don't I'm not putting y'all in spot. Oh in reggie I'm not putting on your spot and jim If y'all if you don't want to say anything But I want to make sure if you do that I I don't move on before you have an opportunity to say something Gregory I see you just came off mute Yeah, I was just gonna mention following up from what what you just said that when we get into that aspect of it and looking at some of the supportive data There is a lot of good data That quantifies at the local level the transportation costs And I think being able to document that as we've already mentioned being an important part of housing affordability But being able to show like exactly Um, you know what the estimates are for what a household is spending on transportation in different areas And when you look at that data across the region In many cases that approach is is very similar to The the housing costs and so when you combine those things together thinking about how What you pay for transportation in order to get to your job can have a significant impact on what that affordability actually means So I just wanted to mention I there is some good good data sources out there that could actually help us put some numbers to that Thank you Hi to make a good morning Hey Regina Um, I was listening and two types of Homes that I would like us to also consider is the um Homes that are known as aging in place housing Which um means that as we purchase homes We make sure that the homes have Things in place so that we won't have to be moved out of our home as we get older and then um another type of home, uh, I would like for us to consider housing is um mobility freedom home such for those who are who may have mobility issues and um These type homes would allow the disabled to be within our communities And when we can look at those types, um That's keeping people within the communities and not tearing you're not just you know creating a disparity of Gentrification or whatever within our communities Those are two types of houses And then I sent you something about a program in Atlanta Which I immediately thought about our issues with co-enforcement and um I really would like to look at that program And see what we can do here with that Definitely And I did get that I haven't had a chance to share that with everybody But I will pull it and make sure I do that Okay Okay Jeff I think I saw you coming off mute. Yeah. Thank you councilwoman I was just gonna add and this kind of piggybacking on uh councilman davis and lester's point but we're serving so many families in the service industry and um Just when we talk about affordable housing and how it relates to other aspects of life not just The housing piece but transportation child care Brenna and jennifer have done a great job in leading us to get to this point where we're thinking mostly on a holistic level Of the deeper impact and the families that we're serving are doubled up the families of nurses Teachers assistants and I think getting that message out there finding the effective messengers as well I think is going to be critical in sharing this message of kind of going against that stigma of affordable housing Thank you Hi, this is john ando at the comments Hey john Hi, I just want to add to uh greg's commons that I agree with them and like in our case We want to make right now even though the transit system is free um affordability of Being a affordability for housing and the cost that a low-income person would be spending like on the case of public transportation Could be a make or breaking point for somebody to even afford housing So we definitely want to be mindful of as we continue to price the transit system should we resume fairs again on uh We'd be mindful of that as well as pursuing grants and other options to help subsidize those that are low income so that they can be able to afford housing and other quality of life costs Anybody else Jim or shayla or reggie One I'd like to add real quick um before we move on It's just remembering with the eviction moratorium happening that when evictions do come up. I know right now in columbia It's very hard to find a second apartment once you've been evicted So in looking what we're going to do past covet trying to make sure that we do have affordable housing For people who do have evictions Due to covet prior to covet And what we're going to do surrounding that idea That's a great point. I do know um Sue and lala in this committee come out legal and zoning issues one of the things we did talk about is Maybe some of the laws around evictions um, and what it does to to have present a barrier for folks to get Um into other additional housing. So I think some of that's going to caught Require some legislative changes, but we're going to we're going to address that too. Thanks Sam um, and then after Sam Brian, I'm gonna let you do your presentation I'll just a timely comment there. Uh, I mentioned to you on yesterday that I'm Presently working with the little subgroup with the NAACP. It's Putting together a What they call a navigator program? Um for people who are Experiencing or really facing eviction and that you know, um, and it's it's, um Sponsored by the national office. So I think you hear a bit more of that and I think that will be an opportunity for um, this group in some form of facts into maybe Help in that in that um venture, um, it what they're doing is recruiting and putting in place people who will assist A family or an individual that's facing eviction and to go through that process and understand some of the laws and rules And that sort of thing. So and that's very timely now nationally for that matter so I'll share whatever I Um can put together as it Comes together with Tamika and the group Thank you, Sam Brian you want to go um everybody does um for those of you Erica put it in the chat as well as right before we started the meeting. Um, she emailed I know you probably hadn't taken to read it. So Brian's going to go through it Um and and and lead us in a discussion But the biggest part once we have and I think we have a consensus on what we all feel affordable housing is um But if we can um once we kind of understand that now we need to talk about You know, what is where are we in the city or the midlands? As far as we currently are in a deficit like I mentioned before it's going to get worse And so we need to figure out kind of what are what are some of the Goals um that we need to be asking our city and county council to look at establishing to try and encourage Uh the the preservation and or of building of of affordable housing. So um Brian with that All right, let me go ahead and uh Put the memo on the screen here for everybody Everybody see that? Yes okay so um basically councilman divine asked me after our last meeting to sort of put together a potential estimate of of the scale of of The amount of of housing need and affordable housing that would need to be produced to um to make a substantial amount of progress in in terms of addressing both the city and the county affordable housing needs so uh to try to get a handle on on this, uh, I was primarily using this this comprehensive housing affordability strategy data set that is put together by HUD and the census bureau So what that does is that that sorts people's housing conditions By area immediate income now, obviously again, we've talked about how that's sort of a technical thing And and that's not going to make sense to people necessarily So you can see here we have this table Where I sort of take for Richland County what that actually means in real life Um, so you see there that extremely low income if you're a single adult is is basically $15,000 Which is uh, you basically worry more if you work a minimum wage job full-time every week um for an entire year And you see how that increases as you increase the number of people And and then as well with the very low income and low income thresholds are and the reason these are so important is because So many of the state and federal sources of financing for affordable housing are pegged to these AMI levels Um, so it's important to have a handle on on that when you're talking about how do you bring money in that can help Uh, that can help address the overall affordable housing issue Um, so as I was kind of mentioning earlier There there's a real need to focus on this extremely low income population This is exactly the kind of people that I believe was Jeffrey mentioned uh a few minutes ago You know, these these are you know fast food workers your retail workers you know people in in You know waitresses uh bar tenders, you know those those very low wage service jobs Which are not coincidentally of the same kind of jobs that have been hit hardest by the pandemic because those are the jobs that were Most likely to be disrupted or or businesses outright closed As a result of the public health concerns um, there's research from the national low income housing coalition that basically says the state, South Carolina's housing needs are concentrated in that group that's the population that needs to have Have their needs addressed if you're going to actually make a dent in the overall affordable housing issue I say leader in the memo that uh Let's go down here So I believe I mentioned. Yeah, so if you're a single adult earning 30 of am I To to get to that 30 threshold That person has to be only paying 383 dollars a month in written utilities, which is obviously Not something that you're going to get in the private unsubsidized Real estate market So, you know, 30% is a back on the low kind of calculation But that gives you a handle on how low rents would have to get to to fit within that that framework So if I scroll back up here Uh, so basically I focus on this this tier one rental housing need and I focus exclusively on rental And certainly home ownership is is part of the solution. But these are people who Their incomes are so low Homeownership is not a short a viable short-term option. There's just not the level of of income There's not the level of income stability in most cases to support that but if you get them into more affordable housing Uh, if you're able to help them with with their finances, they could potentially become uh eligible for a home ownership But in the short moment we're talking about rental housing Um, so you can see there that I'm looking at people who are extremely low income and are spending at least 50% of their income on rent They're severely cost burdened. They're spending more on their housing than everything else put together Um And then also looking at people who are in substandard over credit housing Which uh, you can see the definition of your substandard is basically, I mean, this is bare bones We're talking about does does it have running water? Does it have a toilet? Does it have uh a refrigerator? like the basics of of living so Those two groups are sort of your your tier one need these are people who are On you know, either living in in substandard housing or they are spending so much on their housing And they have such low incomes that their current economic situation is just absolutely untenable unless you're able to stabilize their housing conditions and and figure out a way to house them uh more affordably Um, and now on top of that there's this there's this tier two need which is people who are still very economically distressed but are in somewhat less urgent conditions So that's people who are severely cost burdened and very low income. So in that 31 to 50 AMI As well as the people are extremely low income who are moderately cost burdened. So while they're not over that 50 threshold You know, if you look at the shelter poverty analysis people what people actually need to live on Particularly if this is a family with children Yeah, those people are still in distress even if their percentage of income isn't as high as that first group. So Here's what that looks like Again, both for the city and then for the the county which obviously you can subtract out Yeah, the balance of county unincorporated as well as forest acres, etc so You can see here. We're basically talking about in terms of the total housing need across these two tiers you're basically looking at 16 000 rental units countywide Of which 7500 Would be in columbia now. This could be addressed a number ways could be construction of new housing It could be the preservation of existing housing that places rent restrictions on it It could be subsidies to help people pay their rent. There's a number of ways you could potentially address that that need But basically looking at 16 000 renter households in the county that are in one of these these severely distressed Um circumstances So I go ahead and sort of compare that you can see here that they're um How this compares to other sorts of targets in our region Uh greenville county recently set a target of 13 000 Uh affordable homes that they felt they needed in the next decade Uh city of atlanta set a target of 20 000 in the next eight years City of charlotte set a target of 24 000 which i don't believe had a defined Time period but obviously as I mentioned earlier, there's a number of different ways you could potentially address the housing needs of this population, but certainly You know the probability that's going to require construction or rehabilitation of housing Um as mentioned because these these populations are most Yeah, most of these people are extremely low income You have to make sure that the housing is is affordable for that specific population because if you say oh There's all these people that have housing needs and then you just go build a bunch of uh high-end housing That just not fix the problem obviously that that that may modestly decrease the price of higher-end housing, but that's not going to Uh help this exact population So so there needs to be a series of rent and income restrictions that ensure that this housing Directly serves these populations that have been identified and you can see here. We're talking about Yeah, we're talking about a lot of people. We're talking about 30 of all renters in in columbia and and 26 in in the in the county at large um And then obviously and as this was also sort of discussed earlier um People who are extremely low income are Very likely to be in need of supportive services They're disproportionately going to be You can see there. I mentioned elderly adults youth fixing foster care people persons with disabilities recovery and reentry populations As I mentioned there corporation for supportive housing has found A vast need statewide in housing for this population. So part of the solution here is not just You know housing first as as uh liliana and others in the homelessness space now It's important to get people housed But once you have a roof over their head and something that they can afford Then there's got to be these other services that are brought in to help address a lot of these other Discussion items that we've talked about it here to make sure that you're not just Housing is part of the solution that you're making sure that they're in a position where they can be Where they can achieve economic stability where they can work through other other challenges that may have Led to them being in the circumstances that they're in So that's sort of my ballpark estimate of what I think we're looking at in terms of the scale of the challenge You know as mentioned this this is you're not going to build 16 000 housing units overnight It would be a certainly medium to long term And this does not cover everybody who's cost burden this this is a this is a partial fix as As surprising as that may be with a with a number of this size But that's about the number of households that are You know in particularly acute distress and in need of of some form of housing related Intervention so I'll go ahead and stop there and I'd be happy to answer any any questions that anybody has on this Questions for brian. I have one. I'll start us off. So brian just thinking about so From base on what I know. I know Atlanta actually just this week council approve the mayor's executive order to issue 50 million dollars in bonds for them to help meet their goal Charlotte I think has done something similar from kind of bond Um, but I'm not sure Exactly, and I'll do some research on that. Do you have any idea? Now that greenville has set this goal Anything that they've done to try and achieve it Well, I can say that that uh, I believe their strategic plan was finalized. I think in october So they certainly haven't had a lot of time to start Moving forward on that. Um, as you mentioned affordable housing bonds are Are certainly a common tool We know that there was the referendum in charleston that was that was nearly defeated that would have essentially issued bonds to Uh, establish a a large-scale housing trust fund at the local level That's certainly an option. Um You know, obviously there are existing existing funding sources, but they are strange, you know, we have Fixed them out of money that we can allocate and that has to cover the entire state of south caroline. I you know speak for my agency But uh, certainly certainly the the affordable housing bond is is a tool. There there's certainly other other ways you can you can Raise funding. There's the question of you know, whether whether there's an interest in implementing an inclusionary housing statute Um other there's a whole slew of ways that you can try to move the needle toward that number One of the resources I recommend is is a website called local housing solutions.org Which is uh, new york university and apt associates, which is a consulting firm and they sort of Build it build out a a Sort of a catalog of options that that local governments can consider um And it ranges from everything from subsidies to to changes to zoning tell these sorts of things Um But yeah, certainly affordable housing bonds are one that has been a very popular Source of source of financing Okay, and I know regis It will come back when we again get to the recommendations on some some options for funding But I was just wondering I knew that some of these cities had actually already Tackled how they were going to try and at least get to their goal. But um, just didn't know if cream they'll have Other questions guys for for brian based on thank you so much for for your research on this. Um, and this helps a lot Um questions for brian I I did have a question brian. Um 16 000 units. Have you put a price tag on what it would cost to either repair or construct that magnitude of housing That's uh That's a hard question to answer I mean, I can tell you that You know in in things like long massive tech program the programs that we fund um, you know in terms of a cost estimate, it's not out of line to see 150 000 per unit in terms of if you are Constructing or rehabilitating a housing unit because Because federal you know because federal programs have as you expect a fair bit of red tape involved A lot of different sorts of white color professionals that are required to help facilitate the development of the housing to Handle all the accounting and legal and other logistics of it. Um Yeah, as mentioned, there are a number of different ways you can get there. There's there's subsidies there's other forms of financing But certainly if you want if you were going to try to build 16 000 units in the county Um, yeah that number is sort of a ballpark estimate of What that would cost for a per unit basis? Jim, Jim if it would if it helps you I can tell you that the 15 units that we'll complete within the next four weeks Was a 2.6 million dollar project That did not include land acquisition and that number Was dictated by the federal funding So we we had to spend x amount per square footage No more no less So we were we were capped Yep And I guess my point is the the magnitude of the problem is going to cost a lot of money And it can't be solved without money. I don't think And part of our group's goal is how do we how do we get that funding available? I mean, where does it come from? Is it from political groups? Is it from taxation Charlotte went the taxation route they raised 50 million to Tameka's point Or or strictly for affordable housing within the city limits of charlotte So it's doable, but I know it takes a lot of um education I mean you just can't throw a referendum out there and hope that it survives I mean if you're looking to fund it with dollars from a referendum You got to have a strong education I already just added in the chat that greenville launched the greenville housing fund in 2018 with two million dollars from the city And then they also received some additional funds from hollingsworth foundation So that that's just starting. I guess that's their start to Trying to get towards that 13 000 number Any other questions for brian Any comments or thoughts on now start and talk about a A target that we would like um the city and the county to consider. I mean just taking Brian's raw numbers You're looking The city to look at 7500 units um The county looking at 80 i'm coming up 8600 units And that's that's just let me ask this correct brian That's just to to meet the current need. This is not even thinking about what covet may have done Or the the pending recession may have done to families Yeah, this this is um because there's such a lag in the analysis and reporting This is based on a five-year average of 2013 to 2017 So this is this is pre-pandemic um, so you're certainly looking at a number of households as as mentioned that um low-each workers Disproportionately took the brunch of this recession About one in six of them in south carolina never got their job back after the after the the initial Start of the pandemic So yeah, I would say that this it's probably worse now than this um, which is harrowing to think about but um Uh, yeah, yeah, and this you know, this is not everybody who has housing challenges This is sort of the the people who are in the most dire straits So I feedback throwing it out for discussion um 7500 unit um goal for the city and 8600 unit goal for the county any thoughts on that um any Feelings on that Come on speak at once. Lala. You know looks like she really wants to say something You know I weigh in um It it costs a lot of money, but to your original point when you started the meeting Um, the goals are good It's going to show everybody that hey, this need is real and if we can put a dollar amount to that Working with individuals on this team We could show the city Here's the number we need to just solve a portion of what's needed child Whether it's 7500 or 5000 Let's make it a a bigger number than a lesser number You're on mute. Sorry to be a little late all. Um Why don't we determine a number that can be achieved? I mean from the to jim's point and I've worked with jim's organization I'm and I and I know a good number of our people on the on the task force But if we to a point where numbers that we're requesting become so extraordinarily outside of what can be accomplished We're only talking theory objectively if we're gonna say Can we can we zero in on a project of a hundred? Can we start to build off something that that can get done? And it's because we have so much kind of physical or economic challenges of funding Until that's clear but to try to start and do something in the present Is there a way that we we change? You know, we talk about the long-term need, but what's the 2021 goal? From the standpoint of what what projects we can start to announce to to to move toward this and show the stakeholders that We're only scratching the surface at the present time objectively this needs to be 25 times greater 30 times greater 50 times greater of what to really meet that that the equitable balance of Matching supply and need Jeff I'll comment. I agree with that when I was Putting out my goal, I was thinking over a period of time Like Tamika mentioned earlier but jim to what's a period of time every make it 10 years and say over 10 years We want 5,000 units and in 2021 we want to finish 100 of those That was my thought Do we have any idea and i'm a lala and uh and come to next and um, but do we have any idea? um Brian or Jeff any of y'all who do this like Do is there any database that we know like if we look at 2020? 2020 is probably not a great year because of covid, but if we look at 2019 how many units were added? And see we also have to think about I think the other thing we need to think about the fact that Every day there are units that are actually being taken away as well So, you know, there's really not a kind of this is going to be a net gain of 5,000 because you know over the years I know I remember are embarking upon something, you know, very um bold But part of that bold plan Includes demolishing what they currently have to add new So there's there's going to be some give and take From from this, but do we have any idea like in 2019? Brian does anybody keep a repository? Do you guys or anybody know like within you know in year 2019? How many units were added into our our region? um As the housing doesn't track that specifically but you could either look at american community survey Which would report the number of housing units that that exist And columbia's large enough that they do that every year Um 2019 would be the most recent Uh, there's also uh data on building permits So you could figure out how many how many building permits were Requested a man. I'm sure I'm sure the city has better data on that than the federal government does But um, you know, that'll probably be a handle the harder part is is what you mentioned is how many how many housing units became dilapidated had to be um removed that's that's hard to get a handle on but um There's there's certainly some options in terms of getting a handle on on what the housing stock looks like And before coming a lot and a christ is there when we do building um building permits though Do we know what's affordable and what's not we just or do we just do kind of this is what the you know This is the number of units that were added We do know from new new permits it is listed what the cost of the unit is um, and So we do know that those that information You guys pull us what the like maybe 2018 numbers 2019 and 2020 just so we can know Certainly Thank you LA Now, I think you're going to be surprised and and brian um and christa Y'all know these names as well as I do. I think that you know when we Jeff when you think of you know 100 kevin connelly is going in and building two 300 units of a pop Um, and I know he's got a project going on down garner sferry right now So I think you know, we're we're underestimating the power Of what is actually happening right now. It's just that the people at this table are um non-profit affordable housing developers We have some really large affordable housing developers out there. Um, they're they're getting Tax credits they're they're getting bonds. They're they're they're just not um I'm not going to say it at this particular table, but they're not at this table So so affordable housing is is being Built um, and I'm not I'm I'm not saying that that I think you need two data points And I think I think you definitely need a long a long range goal I think you definitely need to say here is your your 16 000 Need and I think that you need to have achievable goals So we don't have money on our face that you know says, you know, we we haven't achieved any of our our goals Um, but at the same time, I think we we do need to give ourselves as a community credit in that We are developing affordable housing um It's it's just that I think we need to make sure we're pulling the data from all different places and just because we don't have the The the for-profit developers at the table for this conversation doesn't mean it's not it's not getting done But you know, I see julienne nodding shaking your head and you know julienne and I know about that development for other reasons, um, but you know, yeah kevins kevins down there right now And I agree. I mean we we we participate in some of the loans through centrant with kevin So you're right. My focus is or my comments were not driven toward the the the well regarded organizations in town that are Successfully able to use the tools on a long-term basis Maybe I was zeroing in on the the 30 percent AMI which is exactly Is not going to be in kevin's wheelhouse Inga so this and and so you thank you for the clarification. I agree with you. We all are aware of successful long-term developers making bringing units to market and That is helpful to to make sure that the city shows itself Engaged in the county and the surrounding communities You're you're right. I think maybe concentrating on which Which data points is important Thanks, and we do have regi at the table so and regi. I see you put your your camera on so did you want to add something or Yeah, I guess the only thing that I was going to add to to the conversation regarding that And you're right. I mean there are multiple ways You know whether it's creating a as I've alluded to You know creating a local trust fund That can help facilitate it You know you talked about You know alluded to kevin. I mean, I don't know if you all are aware, but In the last stimulus bill that was passed the four percent tax credit program Now has a floor and when you look at And I'm just going to give you an example We got three projects in one in columbia that's been on the table for years, but to give you an example Just using the now new four percent floor It changed the economics of that deal by over a million dollars So the gap that we had that the project didn't work before Not just last week by creating that four percent floor It changed the whole dynamics of of those kinds of things So I think that there are some things in our toolbox even with this pandemic that's going on But I think we're going to be able to see Some additional units being put on the ground with the state tax credit And with the other legislation with non-profits now being Not having property tax liability as being partners with partnerships with for-profit entities To kind of help feel that gap in some ways I think those are some of the things that we need to analyze this year as well And brian and I've talked a little bit about that in previous discussions, but I do think that there's some There's some things that collectively we we can all look at this year that will show some successes So let me ask you this let me ask your opinion So you you've done the the the housing authority side you've done non-profit and you've done the for-profit Knowing kind of pulling all of these together not anybody can comment, but I'm asked reggie having a a goal of of You know 5 000 units um In or or save and save 5 000 units over Five six years. Is that realistic? I mean And I'm not trying to put, you know, I mean what I was going to be able to do In the initiatives that you know, she has going on I mean, that's exciting and it's going to be able to be a huge different difference making the community But you know as la talked about with kevin. I mean, I've been contacted Not taking anything away from state housing, but you know when you when you look at the nine percent program And again when you look at the local housing authorities And nobody's really talking about this but local housing authorities have the power To issue bonds and so I know average looking at that in columbia and people are looking at across the state We are now with the four percent program again with the increase of Of the the different programs to meet that five thousand goal that you talked about to make over five years I honestly think it's attainable There's not a lot of soft money available anymore. So a home or cdbg standpoint But you do have the as I said the four percent floor Changes the dynamics to the economics of a previous deal that didn't work In columbia is one of those communities that a lot of people are going to be Uh wanted to do development in and so not only are you going to have outsiders coming in to look at property? I know and you alluded to this. I know a A for-profit developer that is building 250 to 350 units up and down 95 from Brunswick all the way to savannah And up and I'm working with him on projects He's doing in greenville spartanburg and looking at sites in columbia. I'm working with him now to look at a site He he looks at 250 to 350 units With both subsidy No, no nothing just he's raising funds to build a Workforce housing where his developments are targeting those people at 60 to 80 percent of am i and so And that's not having any subsidy. That's not tax credit. That's not anything that that is his business model Is to create class b properties that are in large scale. So I I think that number is a thing. That's the point I make And I guess the other thing I want to add for us to also consider. I mean, it won't be those Large large numbers, but you know, we're not talking just rental. We're also in our goal will include You know home ownership as well. And so affordability can also be um, you know the the the the financing that comes to the table to help Owner homeowner get into it, you know, how many units did you guys just have with the eight? Yes, we had just the eight. Um, we have another 20 coming, but I don't know COVID slowed us down a lot. So I don't know exactly how that clearance going So, um That's my concern to me. I'm not You know, my concern is I think that there's good work going on to create 50 to 100 plus units But we got a lot of infill lots in our communities that we need to be be focusing on our communities are continuous I drive around columbia and other cities in south carolina. I'm a south carolina boy So I love the state and so when I ride around these cities and see these infill dilapidated lives That's what's destroying the integrity of our communities And unless we begin to as part of this task force begin to really focus on whether it's rental duplex Or home ownership and i'm a big proponent of us creating more home ownership opportunities for low wealth And I don't say low income but for low wealth individuals I think we really need to be able to focus on that and then we can really begin to change the character of our communities by Focusing on some of these infill lots as well exactly So I know that I'm sorry. I just know that I know that a lot of builders like the smaller builders Maybe not the big box builders, but a lot of smaller ones have reached out to me um about land opportunities Um because they are looking to do smaller um poor plan homes So anything like that, you know that they can partner with the city They're very interested in so anything I can carry back to the builders association So that that can be disseminated to those smaller maybe more custom builders to want to get into the portable housing I'd be happy to do that All right, I want to be respectful of your times. I want to kind of close out in the next minute or so Or next few minutes, um by no other than so while 30 but sam you had something you wanted to say You Sam yesterday with somebody um And their organization has where every time you start talking or mute you have to put a dollar in the kitty Man, I'm a poor preacher son. I can't afford that Like I ready to respond on I think the the uh all of the elements in there in terms of uh our end goal Sort of wrapped up in that conversation infill lots in in areas That helps with some of the smaller scale units It adds again to the quality of life when it comes to the appearance of certain parts of the city or the county for that matter and and uh I think more opportunities for the private sector to really get involved and They're involved, but the perception is is always the county the city or the county And it's not always the government And and I think if we can Do as much as we can to really? Project that partnership with people who are making that investment and and the But in certain parts of the city that that that will help Um, so I'm I'm all for it. What are you? I like to term a low mid wealth Reggie low wealth. Yeah Well, well, that's low wealth mid wealth. That's you know, that's that's Again, that I'm always concerned about the stigmatism of all of this, you know Going way back to the the old HUD days and and the father we can get away from that. I think the more um receptive The goals are going to be so Sounds good to me Good. All right. Well, I want to start wrapping this up so that we can get announcements and be gone by Um, 12 30. So let me just throw this out again and let me remind everybody from from brian's memo the Greenville set um, and I always say I hate when people compare columbia to greenville But I'm gonna do it this time just to challenge this a little bit greenville set a goal of 13 000 units over Eight years am I right? Uh, where did I see that? I believe it's over a decade in greenville. Okay over 10 years for them at 13 000 over 10 years Atlanta 20 000 that might have been eight years And then charlotte's 24 000 and we don't know their length. They might not have put a length is what we're saying So looking at greenville 13 000 units over 10 years um if we look at um I mean clearly over 10 years. Do you guys feel comfortable with a 10 000 goal over 10 years? shaking heads I like the concept of 10 for 10 And then to go back to when jeff talked about a kind of kind of an immediate kind of save for 2021 And this is this is everybody trying to pull stuff together. I mean we can revisit it This is just i'm putting this out here and just ask you guys to think on it pray on it over the next month And we'll talk about it again next month at the very beginning and just knock it out so that we can at least give some kind of interim Report to council as to what we're thinking and what we'd like To be done, but christa will pull 18 19 and 20 building permits of what we could at least try and figure out and I'll look up The american community survey um And and report that back out and try and figure out kind of what has been done over the last couple years So we know what's feasible, but um Knowing that you know la has 15 units that's coming on in the next month Um, you know kevin connor like we talked about is doing stuff. There there are folks who are doing. We've got some home ownership um Probably feel comfortable at a goal for this year of 250 I I think the only concern that I would have is Basically for something to get built this year. It has to have already been in the pipeline generally speaking so You know things will get built, but you'd be counting stuff that happened Two or three years ago in terms of how that how it's financed so Sure, okay So what what do you suggest brian as far as do we set a 2020 unit goal or do we set? um a 2020 uh 20 uh 2021 unit goal or do we set a 2021? um Go of of Planning seats Yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to to track Units that are financed that they receive some sort of allocation and I think as discussed There's a lot of mechanisms already in place. But as I kind of highlight Sorry, I'm near the hospital. You can hear that um if You know, there's sort of a need to make sure that the the units to get built are actually affordable for this extremely low-income populations That's that's the main gap here is we've got tools to get housing built at 50 and 60 ami um through programs that that my agency funds and other sources But getting down to that that lower levels is really the challenge And to make it like I can tell you the number in my head of what I'm going to build next year But I won't know if I have funding for that number until June july august So, you know the number that I could and brian I can I don't know if you're if you're grinning intentionally or not But brian knows that's because state housing is not going to give me a yes or no until June july august So any number that I could I could offer from my organization Could in theory change So it just you know, again any number that we could possibly come up with Now over the next couple of weeks. It's going to be a soft number A little guys like me Well for big guys too. Well true I've raised I've raised working from the same pot of of money Absolutely, and I think um, I mean we have in our pipeline a couple of um Financial closings that we anticipate closing on this year but um the construction period of those big projects are you know 18 24 months And so I like the idea of having maybe a three to five year goal You know of a couple of 100 units and um and letting us kind of work from from that perspective So if we can do this, let's say, um, we'll we'll bring this back to the first thing of next month to talk about see, you know To go ahead and decide whether or not everybody's comfortable with the 10,000 and 10 years sounds like we are but we'll we'll confirm that next month um, and then in the interim um, and a few of you guys i'll touch bases with um offline 101 but um based on what christa can pull together and some ideas also Our newest member of the committee chris simmer who he was unable to be here, but He is with the b&t. So he bring our truest now he brings that lender financing and there are a lot of things that he's talked about as far as you know CRA dollars and other Things that the private financial folks are going to be trying to do so You know part of our goal might also be bringing some of them to the table with having this identified goal in In columbia and see whether or not we've got some we can get some commitments to funding some of these projects. Um And then um, and then the other thing I don't know who this would be missy I'm gonna give it to you and you can give it to who needs. Um, maybe gloria But we've talked about this before um to go back to that infill housing if maybe we can try and identify um the the vacant lots that are out there at least in the city Um, that can kind of give us some some discussion points as well Is everybody feel cute Feel good with that. I know we discussed a lot today, but I really wanted us to have you know Instead of having presentations all the time I wanted us to really have some thought process and put some stuff on the table so we can move some goals forward So, um, does everybody kind of feel comfortable with that? Okay All right. Lastly, I'm gonna see if anybody else has any announcements I do want to remind everybody that session three of the color of law discussion Which this will actually be a discussion with richa rostin. Um, and his um, his his His research will be next thursday. Um, and I'll send you guys an email with the the link to register Um, but if you could register and certainly send it out into your circles. I'm really All if y'all've been watching all of the discussions both discussions We've had so far have been amazing discussions. Um, but this one with richa rostin. I think it's going to be really really good Um, he's he's gotten some information About the first two sessions and I think he's got some insights into where we're going and and what columbia looks like So i'm excited on that but that's my announcement Anybody else have any announcements real quick before we we sign off? I see no snows Okay With that said, thank you guys again happy new year. I'm gonna touch bases with several of you kind of offline But the committees y'all go ahead and continue to meet and then if anybody has a report sounds like there's been a lot of great work with the partnerships and message and um What is it partnership general partnerships and in Public awareness committee, right y'all have done some great work Y'all kind of made a report today, but any other committees who want to report next month. Let me know, okay? Okay, with that said all hearts and minds clear Y'all have a great, uh rest of the week. Hopefully the this week will be um Yes, regina. I see it. You will not be forgotten. Uh, we'll we'll circle back with you Um, but if anybody has anything they want to tell me offline just give me a call But jennifer you and I have a call real quick Um too, so i'll see you on that one in a second But y'all have a great month and i'll see y'all next month. Okay? Bye