 You don't have to pay for it. Dude, if I, if me as one person stopped doing it, no one else is going to stop doing it. Ah, that's, you know what that's called? What you just did then? What? It's called an appeal to futility, fallacy. I used to eat bacon. Wait, wait, wait, do you think you can get... Don't take long. Wait, do you think you can get bacon sarnies that aren't made of pigs? No, you can, but the whole, like, the fat in the pan... Yeah, yeah, yeah. ...and it's been fried. Crispy in that, eh? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's even better when you've cooked it yourself. Yeah. Which is worse. See, that's the argument against veganism. A bacon sandwich. No, it's not an argument against because I respect anyone that is, but I'm not. What's the argument against you being vegan? Just love the taste of bacon sandwiches too much. But then you can argument against everything. I'm gay, but you can, like, why are you gay? Well, because I'm not, I wasn't born gay, so... Well, yeah, I weren't born vegan. Yeah, but like, you being gay doesn't harm anyone, but like, when you eat, like, a bacon sandwich... Well, I think people are baked together. Yeah, no, no, being gay is just, you know, it's being gay. But when you put a pig in the gas chamber and turn them into, like, bacon, you murder them for bacon, then the pig gets executed, you know what I mean? Yeah, true. So that's got a victim there. I don't think you can argue too or far against it, though. I don't think there can be an argument too or far. People are just what they are. If you like bacon, someone might not like bacon. That's just their choice. I don't think you can argue... You don't think there's a good argument to be vegan? What about animal cruelty? Well, yeah, I'm not saying... I'm saying there isn't an argument too or far. I don't think you can blame someone that is versus someone that isn't. I don't think you can blame either side. Well, it depends on what their moral system is like. That's their choice, and I'm not gonna judge them for their choice, whereas they shouldn't judge me for my choice. Okay, what about this? What about this? What if someone said, I'm against animal cruelty, but I pay for pigs to be stabbed in the throat and turned into bacon? Do you think that's consistent? No, it's not, but that's their personal choice. You can't argue against it. Your personal choice could be anything, couldn't it? Well, yeah, it is. It could be someone's personal choice to punch some innocent person in the face. The personal choice isn't like, I am gonna argue for this person, I am gonna argue against this person. That's not how society works anymore. Your public opinion is your opinion. I can't argue the fact whether you choose one thing or another. But I'm asking, is the personal choice a moral choice? Not whether it's a personal choice, or even though it's not really personal as a pig involved getting stabbed for bacon. Do you know what I mean? That's just another little thing there. Yeah, I didn't. Added a little thing there, it's not really personal choice. There's a victim involved with this choice. It's a choice, I would say it's a choice. I say it's a choice, but what I am saying is there isn't an argument. You can't argue what someone personally chooses. That's their choice. But I could say that there's a victim involved, that it's morally wrong, things like this. Yeah, but then there's murderers that go around murdering and raping people. Yeah, and I'm against that too. Okay, you're against that? Yeah, but you're against it, but they're not getting killed in prison or getting done what they've done to them. They should. They probably should. Or at least, you know, some type of rehabilitation. But you can't argue that, can you? Right, say it around someone went around murdering people and they did what they did. In someone's personal opinion, that would be they should have exactly what they did to someone else done to them. Or imprisoned. You have to agree with the imprisonment, they think they should have done what they did. What if I said it's my personal choice to murder? Where are you getting involved? You can't argue it for or against. They're a murderer, and they get arrested and sentenced for what they've committed. But what if... Yeah, it's morally wrong. I'm talking about them. Yeah. Take legality out for a second. I want to talk about what's moral, because what if they said this is my personal choice? You can't argue for or against. Don't argue with me whilst I'm drunk right now. This is not okay. People are more honest, I think, after a few drinks anyway, so why not? I know people that are vegans, vegetarian, and I would not not be friends with them just because they are. I don't think that's right. And I don't think I could argue the fact that I am versus the fact that they aren't. I don't think that's right. It's their choice. Do you think... Sometimes your choices have consequences, though. I would assume... It was a thing way before, you know, it's sustainability. Do you care about the suffering of the animals? Well, yeah. But I'm not gonna... Stop causing it? Yeah. Yeah. But do you see how it's inconsistent... I'll argue against that. You can't, can you? Yeah. You know pigs are suffering in like... Yeah. You know they're suffering in these farms. But everyone's suffering. Yeah, but not to the same extent that a pig is suffering in a gas chamber. Oh, no. But then you kill a spider. You'll kill a spider. It was because you don't eat a spider. I don't mean it's animal cruelty. Don't necessarily kill a spider. If they're gonna attack me, maybe. But... Pigs are innocent. You're gonna kill it. Well, not necessarily. I don't necessarily kill a spider. Some people will. Some people that are vegan or vegetarian will kill a spider because they're scared of them. Yeah. So how does that work? I mean, what senses is the size or the relevance of the animal different to what it produces? I'll just ask you this. Like, is, say, a spider, like, maybe it's a venomous spider. I don't know, like, poisonous spider. Do you think... So an Australian spider? Yeah, well, no. That you're not gonna have over here? Yeah, I don't kill spiders, like, myself. I don't kill them. I put them in a jar and put them on my balcony. I mean, when it's needless, I don't do it. Like, so I'd say, like, eating a bacon sandwich is needless cruelty. You know, but... So people might not be able to get their protein any other way. Can you get protein from somewhere else other than a bacon sandwich? Yes, but someone's physical body may not be able to intake that type of protein. It's like a protein shake. Like a hypothetical person, you mean? No, no. So some people might not be able to have a protein shake. Some people physically might not be able to have it. They might have diabetes. They might have, what's it called, a new calorie, glucose intolerant. It's got a different celiac. Someone might not physically be able to take that protein shake. It might be a harmful... Is that person new? I just want to know, is that person new? I'm type 1 diabetic. But you inject insulin for that. I do, yeah. So you've got to be careful of eating insulin. And sometimes I have carb-free days where I need to take my vegetables and my protein to be able to have a day where I take nothing other than that. So you have to have a keto diet. But I do not fuel myself on a protein shake. So... Do you think all vegans have to eat protein shakes for protein? No. But I'm not arguing that. You said it's okay to put pigs in gas chambers for bacon sandwiches because there's... But not everyone does it like that. So what are you saying? No, most pigs in the UK, 86% of the pigs in England and Wales are killed in gas chambers. Have you seen them? I know that. Have you seen them? No. Do you want me to quickly show you? I mean, you can, but I'm not going to be... The CO2 reacts with the mucus in their eyes and their mouth, in their throat and their lungs and they're burning from the inside out. Did they pass out then? Eventually. It would be quite painful. But they're getting lured into a dark dungeon and they try to escape. But I'm not saying the way they do it is right. I'm just arguing. What matters is that this is the way they do it here. And that you pay for that here. But I can't fight for that. Let alone I can fight for coronavirus. Let alone I can fight for people being paid the right amount of money they should be paid. Let alone I can fight for people with depression and anxiety being given the things they need to be signed for. I can't fight for that because there's no opportunity for me to fight for that. Yeah, there is. Every time you sit down to... I can sign a petition and argue what I want to argue. Every time you sit down to a meal, you can boycott it. You don't have to pay for it. Dude, if I... If me as one person stops doing it, no one else is going to stop doing it. You know what that's called? What you just did then? What? It's called an appeal to futility fallacy. Straight away. It's futile. You're saying like, if I don't change, the world's not going to change. You want to get in on this, mate. You want to listen? Mate, we're talking about animal cruelty. You just said, if I don't change... Are you vegan or vegetarian? I want to be. You want to be? What about this? What about this? If I said... Do you know Yulun Dog Meat Festival? This helps people connect the dots. Yulun Dog Meat Festival? Pardon? Yulun. There's a place in China where they have a dog meat festival where they torture and kill dogs for food. Well, that's not right, is it? Okay. Would you sit down to a plate? Yeah. Why not? Because it's not what I want to eat, is it? It doesn't matter. Is there an ethical reason? Yeah, but then are you only eating chicken? I don't go around eating fucking dogs and turtles and rabbits and squirrels. I'm just asking, is there an ethical reason that you don't eat dogs? It doesn't taste nice. It'll smell nice. How do you know it doesn't taste nice? I don't know. I just presume it doesn't... I don't know. It tastes the same as bacon. Would you eat it? Knowing that the dog was suffered and died in a gas chamber? I... Be honest. It's not a trick question. I don't think about where it's come from. But it's not a... That is the biggest thing. That is the biggest thing. Not thinking about where it comes from. At the minute I choose not to eat beef. I took a trick while I was out in Tanzania. Saw something I didn't want to see. I'm sure you will have seen. As a result of that, I choose not to eat beef anymore. You say the cow get executed, do you mean? Yeah. I'm fully aware it happens in the world. Completely aware it happens in the world. Seeing it first-hand is completely different. So I now choose not to eat that one. I'm sorry if I was to see other things that probably would be affecting other ways. But the way that we consume it right now, we're so detached from the way that it gets there in the first place. We're so far along the food chain that we have no idea what goes on above to get it there. I think that's the problem. You just grab a sandwich and that's what... Yeah. Me too. I made it for 26 years or whatever. I didn't see slaughterhouse footage. I totally agree with it. The fact that you've just shown me that video and that's how 86% of people... 86% of pigs in England and Wales? That's not right. But when I go to eat it... It doesn't say on the package that this is how it gets there. For a reason. But I didn't know 86% of pigs. Do you know how this footage got out? Do you think the industry showed it? No. Someone's definitely videoed that. Who do you think got this footage out? I don't know. I know my activists. Yeah, of course. Because they care about... I'm not saying that just because I eat doesn't mean I don't care. It just means... If you do care, I'm saying when you purchase something through supply and demand, you're creating this supply chain. You're demanding the slaughter of these animals. Okay. But someone that can't necessarily consume all that all the time. Someone that doesn't have the money to buy a salad. This is a hypothetical person. We're only talking about you two. I am hypothetical. You can't buy a salad? Some people can't afford to buy the ingredients to afford to buy a mixed salad. Can they? If you walk into Tesco's now, you could get two chicken breasts for £4.50. Wait a second. You can get two Beyond Burgers for £5. I don't know why that is. What's a Beyond Burger? A meatless patty for burger. You just said two stripless chickens... I don't really go out and eat and cook. No, but you just said two chicken breasts for £4.50. And I said you could pay an extra £50 and get some Beyond Burgers or whatever. Where are you getting the Beyond Burger from? Tesco. Tesco. What's it cooking? No, you take it home and cook it. What in a microwave? On a grill. I'm just saying there's a lot of... Maybe for you it's just you haven't seen the options. You don't know about these vegan options and how easy it is in the UK to avoid. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying. OK, let's put it like this. Let's just say it was not as hard as you thought. OK, but I have tried all the other options and stuff. I used to work for DAV. It will not work for all. But I used to do camps with young kids and we would have vegan weeks where we would only be able to provide stuff for vegan and vegetarian and gluten free children because they were the people on site. We had to make sure it was well done. And I will eat it, but some of it is not as good. I've been eating some meat that tastes like crap as well. So you've got the power in your hands. When you go to the supermarket, are they paying for animal cruelty? You're pushing the button on these animals to get executed? What about eggs? No, no, no. You don't eat eggs? The male chicks are macerated in a blender because they don't produce eggs on their first day of life. So they'll use the females and then they'll exploit them for a few months. What about egg whites that's processed? They'll execute those egg laying hens when they don't produce eggs anymore. What about the eggs? I don't eat eggs. For ethical reasons. Where do you get your protein from? I can if I want to. Where do you get your protein from? Beams and legumes and nuts and seeds and whole grains and vegetables. I can't eat nuts and nuts and nuts. They'll take the nuts out. Tofu, tempeh, mokmeats, made of soya. You know, there's a bunch of stuff. There's an array of foods. So you both vegetarian? Vegan. Vegan is for the animals. Vegetarian is just a diet. Okay. Something to think about? I do think it needs to be where I'm educated. I don't argue against that at all. But I think a lot of people, a lot of things need to be where I'm educated. A lot of things do. We spend a lot of time on these pamphlets. It's not just another pamphlet. It's really good. It's the best pamphlet. It's the best pamphlet that you can get. But, you know, people have been brought upon, you know. Yeah, meat and the dairy. This is what your parents have meant to you. You're going to eat it. If you don't eat it, you're going to put, you're going to put, like if I didn't eat what I was eating, I'd get put in a different room. Yeah. And I'd be faster to eat it. But luckily you have choice now. Well, yeah. You've got a choice now. Every day. It doesn't need to be educated. All right. Get it in schools. See you later, guys. See you later, guys. Take care. All right. Interesting guys there. Hopefully they take the pamphlet and make some choices that help the animals.