 It's a great pleasure for me to be able to be able to introduce to you our colleague from Washington. It's today's video conference as a topic of all NGOs in the policy process, and we have an American expert, Emily Wardlin. She is the Vice President, Conservation Policy and Programs of Ocean Conservancy, which mobilizes citizen advocates to facilitate change and protect the ocean for future generations. She works at the Office of Management and Budget, and more recently she continued her work for the Ocean's Senior Policy Advisor to the Nature Conservancy's Marine Program. She's a graduate of the Master's degree from the Nicholas School of the Environment at Duke University, so she has a deep academic background. But one thing that I want to emphasize is that in the United States, in terms of universities, it's a much more interactive experience, so I encourage you to ask questions and to talk with her as she's proceeding through her presentation, because that's really what we're hoping for, is to establish a dialogue with all of you. Emily is engaged in the management of the issues of budgeting, in the issues of politics, in the field of management of natural resources. She has a rich experience. She graduated from the University of York. She received a Master's degree in the School of the Environment at Duke University in the United States, so we ask you to ask questions and to discuss the dialogue. And so with that, I'll let you go ahead. It's great, Emily. Thank you very much for joining us. Well, great. Thank you. Thank you for having me, and thank you to everyone who is here listening and participating. So I'm going to start in a minute giving a presentation. It's my understanding. We'll put it on the screen, so you'll see that. I want to give a quick overview of my organization and nonprofits in general, and then make sure that we leave room for you all to ask a lot of questions if you have them so that we can talk about more specific issues that are of specific interest to you. Well, in a minute I'll start my presentation. Before that, I want to briefly tell you that I hope that you have a lot of questions that we can answer or discuss together. So just call up the... I'm going to bring up the slides now. And this is my first time working with an interpreter, so forgive me if I go too fast. I will try and leave some pauses so that everybody can catch up. So I was invited today to talk about the role of non-governmental organizations in policy and politics here in the U.S. I'm going to start by talking about my organization, Ocean Conservancy, as an example of a nonprofit and how we work in the policy process in the U.S. So to tell you a little bit about Ocean Conservancy, we are a nonprofit. We are also considered a charitable organization, which in the U.S. is often called a 501C3. Ocean Conservancy is a non-commercial organization. It exists in the U.S., in America, with a special name for such companies. That number, that designation, is really just represents the designation we have in the U.S. tax code. And what it means is that because we are a charitable organization, anyone who donates money to us or gives us contributions doesn't have to pay income tax on that funding. And in exchange, there are certain rules set by the federal government for what we can and can't do, which will come up at a later point in the presentation. A special name that is called non-commercial organization is a tax code, which means non-commercial organization, including donation. The peculiarity of such organizations is that people who pay, they don't pay income tax. That is, organizations that receive such donations don't pay income tax, but, nevertheless, they have their limits and their rights. So, our mission is to advance science-based policy for ocean conservation and to advocate for policy change to protect the ocean. We have an organization that has about 80 staff, most of them here in Washington, D.C. We are about a $20 million a year organization broadly. We're pretty focused on U.S. policy and U.S. politics and governments. But we do have a little bit of international programs as well. In our organization, about 80 people in Washington, D.C. are mostly working with the United States of America, but some of them are part of international activities with other countries. So, with that, our staff is made up of staff of scientists, of policy experts, of advocates and lobbyists, as well as lawyers, as well as support staff, communications professionals, IT folks, people who make the office work. We have scientists working here, specialists in the IT field, specialists in the communication field, lawyers, people of different profiles, different professions. And our organization focuses on six different program areas. These are the particular policy areas where we're trying to have an impact and create change. So, our six program areas are Ocean Trash, a program on ocean planning. We have six main working areas. The first one is the protection of the ocean from the mussel that hits it. Our other program areas include fisheries management, trying to make sure that there are sustainable fisheries for the future, there are enough fish to continue on. We also have a big program focused on restoration, ecosystem restoration in the Gulf of Mexico. You may remember that four years ago there was a very large oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. We're working with the folks down in that region to try and make sure that the ecosystem and the ocean are fully restored from the damage that was done from the oil spill. Another direction is the protection of fisheries, fisheries industry in order to ensure the existence of fish for the future generations. Another direction is restoration of resources. For example, this is a work with the resources of the Mexican oil spill. If you remember, not so long ago there was a oil spill. And we have two other programs. One in the Arctic. The Arctic is a very sensitive environment that's going through a lot of change and our program focuses on trying to make sure that we protect sensitive habitat and sensitive areas and sensitive species, whales, fish, birds from the impacts of oil and gas drilling as well as from the increased traffic in shipping. The fourth direction is the Arctic. Because it's a very sensitive environment, it requires protection of different species of animals, whales, birds, fish and it's necessary to limit the movement of different ships in this region. And our final program focuses on ocean acidification which is about the changing chemistry of the ocean as a result of increasing absorption of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and the impacts that that has particularly on any organism that has a shell, any animal that like oysters or crabs or some of the smaller creatures that use calcium carbonate to build their shells. The change in the ocean chemistry is having an impact on those populations and the ecosystem as a whole. So that's what my organization is specifically focused on, but to talk about NGOs more broadly, in the US we really see the role of NGOs in a couple of different categories which I'll go through in a second. So one of the major areas where we provide service is making sure that we have policy expertise, making sure that we're providing some of the best thinking based on science of what the policy recommendations should be in our case for ocean conservation, but NGOs in general, that's one of their prime functions is to provide policy expertise. One of the key features of any non-governmental organization is the professional experience in the field of policy to determine the normative work. We use a scientific basis for such recommendations, but in general, it's about any non-commercial non-governmental organization. But in addition to just being substantive subject matter experts another key feature that another key role that we play is as organizers of the community of people who care about the issues that we care about. And that can mean a whole host of different people. That can mean individual citizens who care about the ocean. It can mean scientists. It can mean, in our case, fishermen, stakeholders which we think of as fishermen or surfers or shippers or people who use the ocean. And so our job in part is to bring those different people together who might share our values and share what we care about to make sure that their voice and their opinions are heard in the policy process as a collective, rather than just as individuals. And in addition to the fact that we are interested in our work of scientists, scientists and politicians, our task, in particular, is to connect with the life of the ocean, the seas, the people who come here, and to, so to speak, their interests when forming a policy with the United States, and to consider their relationship with the ocean. And so two of the words that you'll often hear in this context are grass roots and grass tops. Grass roots means connecting with individual citizens and getting people all over the country who care about an issue to voice their support for it. The opposite of that is grass tops, which is the idea of reaching out to some very high-level individuals who have relationships or access to important policymakers who can help get your issue to the top of someone's priority list or in front of a policymaker. And so the two photos you see on this page are examples of this. In the top photo, the gentleman with the gray hair is Senator Whitehouse, who's a senator from Rhode Island. And that's a picture from a set of meetings we did where we brought in some of his constituents and his voters from Rhode Island who care about the ocean to talk with him about funding ocean priorities and funding ocean conservation. And the picture on the bottom is former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, who obviously has held a very important position in the U.S. government and has a lot of high-level relationships. He also happens to be a passionate advocate for the oceans and was the head of a blue ribbon panel of ocean experts about a decade ago making recommendations. And so we will often try and work with him so that if there's an important ocean issue before Congress or before the administration that he can help carry our message to the important decisions. There are also NGOs that do a lot of work on the ground where, for example, in the conservation world there are nonprofits that actually do buy up land that they want to preserve or will plant wetlands and do restoration and actually do boots on the ground, hands in the dirt on the ground work as well. And then the last two categories of what NGOs here do, legal action, we often in our country will, the NGO community will sometimes bring lawsuits against the government to hold them accountable and make sure that they are enforced and that they are protected and that they are protected and that they are protected. To hold them accountable and make sure that they are enforcing existing laws and policy. So, for example, we work a lot on fisheries management. The government is supposed to set limits for how much fish can be caught if they're not setting those limits or if they're not enforcing those limits. Ocean Conservancy could sue the government agency to try and make sure that they follow through and enforce their laws and policies. What distinguishes all the non-governmental organizations is the judicial investigation. For example, you have to deal with the government, you have to give the court to the government. In Ocean Conservancy, we have given such demands in relation to fishing industry that the restrictions set by the government to catch fish are sometimes not met. This is our goal through the court to achieve the rules and regulations that the government determines. In the last category, political action, Ocean Conservancy doesn't actually participate in. This goes back to what I said about our special tax code rules. Because we're a charitable organization, we're not allowed to participate in political action, but there are non-profits and NGOs that are. What I mean by that is that they directly engage in trying to influence elections, influence who gets elected to Congress, who gets elected to be president, who gets elected at the state level. Ocean Conservancy is not allowed to participate in that, but some of our partner organizations have that capability. That is a difference based on whether or not you're considered a charitable organization and therefore can get donations from people that they don't have to pay income tax on. One of the rules we have to live by. We... Sorry, I've lost a lot. So for Ocean Conservancy, most of the work that we do is directed at trying to influence policymakers in some of the federal agencies. The two seals that are up there. One is for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Commission. One is for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Commission. One is for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Commission. One is for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Commission. They do a lot of our science and management in the ocean. The other federal agency we try and influence a lot is the Department of the Interior, which manages a lot of our energy extraction. And we also do a lot of work focused on U.S. Congress. Again, other nonprofits may be focused on different targets, but those are the bodies that we are most directly trying to influence. We are most directly trying to influence. As far as Ocean Conservancy is concerned, we work with politicians in federal agencies. In particular, two organizations that are shown on the slide are the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Commission. And the other is the Department of the U.S. for the Interior. Other non-governmental organizations can also work with the logical structures of the synagogical departments in three countries. So the picture here on the bottom is actually the gentleman on the far right is one of our senior staff testifying at a congressional hearing actually about the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico. In addition, we work with the U.S. Congress just on the picture on the bottom. The gentleman on the far right is our representative of Ocean Conservancy. He is present at a meeting dedicated to the Mexican spill due to the consequences of this spill. So a lot of our work is focused on trying to change people's behaviors, trying to change policy or trying to change politics. I thought I would just go through a couple of examples of the different tools and tactics that we use to try and achieve that. Our work is aimed at changing relations and changing politics, and we use different tools and tools that will tell you more in detail. So a lot of the ways that we're trying to influence policy is simply sometimes just by getting good science and good information out there, sort of educating people on what ocean acidification is, why it might matter to you, where you might see the impacts of it and trying to increase the awareness and education about both what the issues are and what the science is behind them. One of the easiest means that we use is information, education, scientific research, example of oxygen. How does it affect the process so that people have an understanding and awareness of the importance of the processes that are related to the world. So we can also sometimes, a lot of nonprofits will participate in public-facing or corporate campaigns where you're trying to get individual members of the public to change their behavior or corporations to change their behavior. So for example, in our ocean trash program, we might be trying to get the public in the US to recycle more or we might try to get corporate partners like Coca-Cola to change the way they make plastic bottles so that fewer of them end up in the ocean. We talked briefly and I'll go into some of these examples about legal action in terms of lawsuits so that we can file lobbying where we're trying to influence the agencies and the government. And then political engagement where we're trying to influence the government back and forth. That's what we're trying to do now. Okay, I hope that's zenith. Okay. Let's talk about legal action. and then political engagement where you're trying to actually influence who are the representatives in Congress and in the government agencies. These are just a couple of examples of what we've done. The group photo on the left is what we call a fly-in where we bring constituents and citizens from different states and towns to come to Washington, D.C., and in this case it was a group of fishermen and offshore wind energy developers and surfers and groups of people who care about the ocean. We bring them in and we take them to Congress to meet with their representatives to talk about, in this case we were talking about funding for government funding for ocean conservation and ocean science programs. The media also plays an important role, so what you see on the right is the Magnuson Act is the federal law that governs fisheries management and so the roll call is a publication that's read here in Washington, D.C., mostly by members of Congress and their staff and so trying to get our issues featured or get editorials written about issues that we care about so that members of Congress are reading about that. Here on the right is the Magnuson Act, a federal law that is related to the surrounding environment. We took part in this work and when we publish information about such laws, we try to publish information about our part so that people, specifically people who know how to rented a land were able to understand their needs and how to behave like that. And then the last photo here is something we call an Action Alert, which is if you are on our email list, we'll send you an email saying, hey, there's this issue that's happening, fill in this form and we'll help you send an email to your member of Congress, or in this case to the company BP to the president saying that you agree with us and that you think that the Congress should give more money for ocean research, or that BP should be held accountable for the oil spill, or that the president should advance ocean conservation policy priorities. Another tool that we use, the so-called action signals, shown at the bottom of the image, is the link of members of our organization and people who take part in the work. The link is connected with the activity of the British Petroleum or the activity of the Congress. It can be a letter to the president, it is connected with, for example, the effort to work on research, and all of this is based on the principle that our policy makers are elected and therefore they care about what their voters care about. And so we are simply trying to find all different ways to impress upon the policy makers that their voters care about the issues that we care about. The other example that I have up here is an example of some of the political action, and so I borrowed this from one of our partner NGOs, but the League of Conservation Voters is one of those non-profits that's able to engage in political action. And so what they do every year is they put out basically a report card for all the members of Congress, where over the course of the year they keep track of how everybody votes on different environmental issues, and at the end of the year they publish this report card saying who's voting the right way on environmental issues and who's voting the wrong way on environmental issues. And so if you look at the map, the states where you see green are where we have members of Congress that are voting for environmental issues, and the states where you have read are places where the members of Congress are voting against environmental issues. And so the idea is by publicizing how members of Congress vote on environmental issues. Citizens who care about environmental issues can look at that and it might influence who they vote for in the next election. And in addition, for the members of Congress, if they know that a vote that they're going to take on a law or a policy or a funding issue is going to matter and is going to show up in this scorecard, they might think about how that's going to look to their voters. The next thing I wanted to talk about was just that we do a lot of work in partnership and in collaboration with other nonprofits. They said Ocean Conservancy only has about 80 staff, so we'll often partner with other nonprofits just to have more people working on an issue. We also often partner a lot with other organizations because we can bring different strengths together. For example, Ocean Conservancy is very focused on work here in Washington, D.C. We have a very good team that works with the government here in Washington, D.C. But we might partner with an organization that has a lot of offices in New England if that's a particular region that we care about. Or we might partner with an organization called Surfrider where they have a membership that represents surfers around the country who might want to work with us on some of the issues that we care about. So I want to say one last thing about fundraising just to give you a sense of where our funding comes from. The revenue areas that I've put up are our major sources of funding. I would say about a third of our funding comes from foundations, government grants and corporations. About a third of our funding comes from our membership, which are people who send us money in the mail or online in small-dollar amounts, anything less than $1,000. And then the final third of our funding comes from individuals who give us larger donations, considered major gifts if it's above $1,000, or a planned giving where they leave us money in their will after they pass away. Another source of our funds is people who give us large amounts of money above $1,000. There are even people who give us money in their will after they pass away. And just to give you a sense in terms of foundations and government grants, for us it's mostly foundations. There are a number of foundations like the Packard Foundation, the Moore Foundation, the Walton Family Foundation that are big funders. And then on the corporate side, this is an example, Coca-Cola Bank of America of some of the corporate partners that support our work. As for the money provided by the funds, these are government grants, Walton Family and so on. And the corporate partnership of big companies, big corporations like Coca-Cola Bank of America, which also share their funds for our work. And with all of these partners, with the foundations, with the corporations, usually they're giving us funding for a specific project or a specific objective or goal. It's very focused on an outcome that they want us to achieve. As a rule, the task of such funds or corporations is to achieve certain goals, to achieve certain projects. One of us is expecting a certain task. A sense of appreciation for what our organization does and how we do it, that sort of fits with their sense, an individual sense of who they are and what they care about. So I have some examples I could walk, other examples I could walk through, but why don't we stop here and see if anybody has any questions or if there are any of those issues that I have talked about that you want some more specific information about? Dear colleagues, let's start with a simple protocol, raise your hand, speak in Russian and move on. Good afternoon. I have a question about the lobbying process. How does this institute work in America? So these are people who specially teach and become lobbyists. How do they interact with non-profit organizations? Do they pay the NPO? Do they pay the lobbyists? If suddenly the lobbyist couldn't do his job, do they return the money? Good afternoon. I have a question regarding the lobbying specialists, the people who are actually lobbying the interests of the non-commercial organizations. Are these people specially trained to become lobbyists or do they have contract agreements with non-governmental organizations? And are they paid for this work? In case the lobbying does not work out, do they have to return the money? So how are the procedures organized in the United States? Sure. So I was a lobbyist and there are different types of lobbyists. We sometimes have lobbyists who work in-house, like I did who are employees of the organization, but we can also contract with specialized lobbyists who work for lobbying firms. They are a lot more expensive. And I would say that almost all lobbyists don't have any specialized training in lobbying. They are a lobbyist because they come from or formerly held positions in Congress or in the agencies that they are then lobbying. So they understand the processes of Congress or the agencies, and they have a lot of relationships. And it's those understanding that process and knowing the people that you need to talk to that allows them to be effective. So I would say that I would say that they are a lot more expensive. So I would say that they are a lot more expensive. So I would say that they are a lot more expensive. That allows them to be effective. And all the lobbyists either are employees of the organization like I was, or they are paid on monthly retainers. So they get paid whether they achieve results or not. Good afternoon. I'm the representative of the student community. And it's interesting for me to know if you involve any young people, youth, especially students in your activities. That's a good question. The program area where I think we have the most connection with the youth community is that we run an operation called the International Coastal Cleanup, which is a series of beach cleanups that happen in September around the world. We don't do a lot of work with youth in the lobbying realm. But I know there are a number of our government agencies that have specific youth programs that are trying to connect with nonprofits that organize young people. There is a government organization that is trying to work with young people. Any more questions, please? What questions? How much does a member of the organization consider a charity from the trade center? It's interesting. And how much does a person with a desire respond to a person who doesn't know anything about it? Can I say it again? That is, they are going to the trade center. And how much does a person with a desire respond to a person who doesn't know anything about it? In addition to membership, do you have any more donations? The donations that people can give in large shopping centers, and is this money included in the overall membership that you consider as the source of the income? Interesting question. I think most of our membership funding comes from either online donations or through direct mail. I don't think we have... And those don't have to be large-dollar. They could be $5, $10 donations. I know that a lot of organizations are trying to take advantage of new mobile technology in terms of how you might be able to use those in fundraising. So, for example, people being able to donate by text message straight from their phone. But we currently aren't doing that. We just don't have the capacity yet. As for the German donations, either through online payments or through direct mail. As a rule, $5, $10 donations are not commercial organizations that use new technology, mobile technology, for example, donations through SMS. And part of the reason for that is also that once someone donates money to us, we want to be able to follow up with them. We want their email address or their mailing address so that we can ask them for more money. Or, in a lot of the work I do, if we have their email address, we can ask them to send one of our action alerts or to send an email to their member of Congress or to engage in a non-monetary way. Well, one more reason why we use the addresses, that is, online or via email, is that we can always turn to these people again for help, again, for money or for the actions of our parcels and the direction of letters to Congress, to the President, and so on. There was a question in the first row. Hello. Please tell us how you use social networks in your work and how effective social networks are and how effective and what is the use of this to attract attention, attract attention to volunteers. Please tell us about it. Regarding the social media, do you use social media in your work and is it efficient and how do you involve volunteers through social media and what is the feedback? Yes. We have an entire team of staff who are focused on our sort of digital communications channels which for us includes, I would say, the two biggest online tools that we use, our Facebook and Twitter. We have an entire team that deals with social networks specifically digital channels of communication on Facebook and Twitter two main social networks. And on Facebook, a lot of what we're doing is publicizing the work that we're doing but trying to put information out there that people want to engage with that will bring them into our website so that they will either donate money or take action and participate in one of our action alerts or online petitions. The purpose of Facebook, for example, is to attract people with posts in order to go to our website and there or participate in, let's say, a link in support of petitions and so on. And with Twitter, we actually are doing a lot of interesting work of trying to use Twitter to reach members of Congress and policy makers more directly. The members of Congress are always looking for ways to try and find out what's important and what's relevant to their members of, to their voters and so trying to get people to tweet at their members of Congress or tag members in tweets about ocean issues has actually been quite effective. As far as Twitter is concerned, this is a social network aimed at people who make decisions at members of Congress. That is, we either direct a person who holds and deals with politics or remember it in such a way that it's very important because they try to follow the interests of their voters. And we'll often use those strategies sort of in combination. So for example, if we're going to do a fly-in and bring a bunch of citizens to Washington D.C. to visit with members of Congress, we might also do a Facebook post about the fly-in and try and get other members of that state to send an email to a member of Congress. And during the meeting between the citizens and the senator, we might take a picture like the one I showed and we might tweet that out saying, hey, look, isn't it great that Senator Whitehouse met with his constituents about ocean conservation? As a rule, we use these social networks as a combination and as far as Twitter is concerned, it's a very effective tool to get information. For example, the fly-in that I was talking about. People came, wrote, published information on Facebook about the meeting with the senator. They mentioned his name on Twitter. They took pictures, posted photos, mentioned that this person is engaged in environmental issues. That's how it works. We still have time for several questions from any sphere. At the beginning of the meeting we said that NKO gives recommendations to the government. That's how effective it is. That is, the NKO gives recommendations. Do you collect any statistics about what recommendations the government performs? Or does NKO give government services and everyone is happy and excited? Regarding the very first introduction that you had regarding their policy expertise that is typical for all non-governmental organizations and especially for ocean conservancy is it really efficient to give recommendations as far as we understand their policy expertise? To give recommendations to the policy makers do they take these recommendations into consideration because you voiced out the actual opinion but no action is taken? That's why we paid the lobbyists. I'll let you translate that one. So, I mean, you have to start with good policy recommendations and it depends on who the policy makers are and what their interests are. If you have good policy recommendations that solve a problem that they that they are trying to solve, that they are trying to solve, that they are trying to solve, sometimes that's enough. It's only when there's controversy or disagreement about the policy direction that we actually have to which is common that we need to find other tools to try and convince people to adopt our policy recommendations. But there are plenty of problems out there that people agree are issues that need to be solved and if there are experts that can come together and suggest some creative and innovative solutions oftentimes that kind of help is very much appreciated by public officials and by the agencies. I have one more or two short questions. My name is Taksana and I'm the head of the public organization. How much in America is the practice of small local communities engaged in some local local projects such as ocean, cows and some internal we are engaged in, let's say, seeking historical heritage and propaganda of historical heritage in September. Is there in America any influence on the world? My name is Taksana and I'm the head of the non-governmental organization. My question is is it common for the United States to have local community non-governmental organizations with some local problems, not like environment, not like ocean protection, because these are very major issues. Specifically, our organization is dealing with the protection of historical heritage with the propaganda of historical heritage objects. So is it common for the United States to have such organizations and their role as well? Yeah, I think across the country we have different organizations that are focused at different scales. And so my organization is focused on a national scale but we partner with and often work with organizations that are focused in specific places on specific issues. There are a lot of local organizations throughout the country that are working to protect a particular park or a particular piece of land or a particular habitat or species that they care about. And often times they'll partner with groups like my group who might focus on making sure that there's federal funding that can flow down into the localities to support those kinds of efforts. We have a lot of different organizations in the United States. Some of them are dealing with the protection of a particular park or a particular piece of land or a species of animals. We also work with them, but it doesn't matter because the Ocean Conservatory is an organization that is focused on a national scale. Nevertheless, we are open to any form of cooperation and, for example, we provide this funding for such organizations or other projects to promote their interests. We have a short question. What is it? Hello, my name is Igor. On one slide there was an image of a red color in the States where congressmen didn't support or don't support any project in terms of logic and the blue one where they supported well. I just didn't understand whether it concerns a specific project or an initiative or whether it's a general situation or whether it's a negative picture. My name is Igor. One of the slides showed the map with the red and green States with the red meaning that the congressmen were against, as you said, against the specific environmental programs the green one for the environmental problems. Are we talking about the specific project, the specific program initiative just in general because the picture was negative overall? Right. That picture was a summary of a lot more detailed information and if you went to their website you would be able to look at each member and each state and see what they were being rated on. But specifically they are being evaluated not on projects but on any vote that comes before congress on an important environmental issue. So what the organization that runs that program does is they pick the series of votes over the course of the year that they're going to score and it could be a vote on funding for environmental programs. It could be a vote on addressing climate change. It could be a vote on protecting endangered species and then they look at how people voted and they keep track of those and add them all up and sort of say you know 90% of the time this person votes with the sort of pro-environment vote or this person only votes with the pro-environment vote 30% of the time and that's what the map is showing. So Emily, I believe our time has drawn to a close and so I want to thank you for taking part in this conference and time has drawn to a close and so I want to thank you for taking part in this conference and sharing your expertise with all of us here and I want to wish you well from this corner of Russia and great success in your future endeavors with your NGO and I know it was very interesting and useful information for me to hear and I hope that will be true for all of our participants here as well as they go forward and work that they do thank you very much for having me we had a request that last gentleman who speaking I'm sorry what's your name this is console general Otto von Marinsen indicator in Berg okay thank you so much for for hosting me and it was a pleasure speaking with you today thank you and we'll be hooking up now